Chris Stewart Breaks Down Seven Charges Against Tyler Robinson in Charlie Kirk Murder Case

[00:00] This just in, our first look at Charlie

[00:03] Kirk's accused killer since his arrest.

[00:05] Tyler Robinson appears in Utah court via

[00:08] Zoom from jail.

[00:10] Roommate, why Robinson? Why did I do it?

[00:14] Roommate. Yeah,

[00:17] Robinson. I had enough of his hatred.

[00:19] Some hate can't be negotiated out. And

[00:22] just wait until you see the text

[00:24] messages that we now have that Robinson

[00:27] allegedly sent his lover roommate after

[00:30] the shooting and what he allegedly told

[00:32] that roommate to do that led to even

[00:35] more charges against this accused

[00:36] killer. A killer who could be put to

[00:38] death if he's found guilty of the

[00:41] charges he now faces. We're on the case

[00:43] presented by Law and Crime. I'm Chris

[00:45] Stewart.

[00:48] All

[00:50] [Music]

[00:52] right, let's get to the updates that we

[00:53] have in in the case of Tyler Robinson,

[00:56] who is now charged with killing Charlie

[00:58] Kirk, the conservative influencer. In

[01:00] these text messages that we now have, I

[01:02] just read through them, they will be

[01:05] damning pieces of evidence in Tyler

[01:08] Robinson's case. I mean, if this ever

[01:10] even goes to trial. Now, take a look

[01:12] here. Here's Robinson appearing in Utah

[01:14] County, Utah court just a short time

[01:16] ago, appearing via video call from jail.

[01:19] He's now being held without bond. Now,

[01:21] we also now know the charges that

[01:23] Robinson is facing. Seven counts in all,

[01:26] and they could mean that he will be put

[01:28] to death if he's found guilty in a jury

[01:31] trial. Prosecutors in Utah County

[01:32] announced them today for the first time

[01:34] at a news conference. Count one,

[01:37] aggravated murder. A capital offense for

[01:41] intentionally or knowingly causing the

[01:43] death of Charlie Kirk under

[01:45] circumstances that created a great risk

[01:48] of death to others.

[01:51] Count two, felony discharge of a firearm

[01:55] causing serious bodily injury, a

[01:58] firstderee felony.

[02:00] The state is further alleging

[02:02] aggravating factors on counts one and

[02:05] two because the defendant is believed to

[02:09] have targeted Charlie Kirk based on

[02:12] Charlie Kirk's political expression and

[02:15] did so knowing that children were

[02:17] present and would witness the homicide.

[02:23] The state is also charging

[02:26] defendant with count three, obstruction

[02:30] of justice, a secondderee felony

[02:34] for moving and concealing the rifle used

[02:36] in the shooting. Count four, obstruction

[02:40] of justice, a third degree uh a

[02:43] seconddegree felony for disposing the

[02:45] clothing he wore during the shooting.

[02:49] Count five, witness tampering, a

[02:51] thirdderee felony for directing his

[02:54] roommate to delete his incriminating

[02:57] texts.

[02:58] Count six, witness tampering, a

[03:01] thirdderee felony for directing his

[03:04] roommate to stay silent if police

[03:06] questioned him.

[03:08] And count seven, commission of a violent

[03:11] offense in the presence of a child, a

[03:14] class A misdemeanor, for committing

[03:16] homicide, knowing that children were

[03:19] present and may have seen or heard the

[03:21] murder and did so based on Charlie

[03:25] Kirk's political expression. Charlie

[03:28] Kirk, of course, was a political figure.

[03:30] Thousands of people came to hear him

[03:32] speak at Utah Valley University. He was

[03:34] one of the leading voices of young

[03:36] conservatives in this country. But

[03:38] that's not the only reason that there

[03:40] was major suspicion that this was an

[03:41] alleged political assassination. We know

[03:44] that Robinson, once he was arrested, had

[03:46] become more political. In recent years,

[03:48] according to his family, we saw in the

[03:49] bullets left by the rifle that he

[03:52] allegedly left behind lines like, "Hey,

[03:54] fascist catch." That politics may have

[03:56] been the motivation for killing Charlie

[03:59] Kirk. But today, for the first time,

[04:01] prosecutors made that known as you heard

[04:04] there because of some of the text

[04:06] messages we're going to talk about and

[04:07] some of the statements that Robinson had

[04:11] made over the last couple of years. Now,

[04:13] another major update coming in was

[04:15] related to Robinson's roommate, and this

[04:16] is where we get into these text

[04:18] messages. Now, that roommates's been

[04:20] identified as a member of the

[04:21] transgender community, a man who's

[04:23] transitioning to be a woman, and they

[04:25] had been in a relationship with

[04:27] Robinson. Robinson is facing two counts

[04:29] of obstruction of justice for allegedly

[04:31] trying to stop that roommate from

[04:33] speaking to law enforcement and for

[04:34] allegedly telling the roommate to delete

[04:37] messages about the shooting. Now, I want

[04:39] to be clear that law enforcement has

[04:40] said that this roommate has been very

[04:42] cooperative in the investigation and

[04:44] they are not facing charges at this

[04:46] time. Prosecutors though just unveiled

[04:48] the bombshell text messages that Tyler

[04:51] Robinson allegedly sent that roommate.

[04:53] Take a listen. Police interviewed

[04:56] Robinson's roommate, a biological mal,

[04:59] who is was involved in a romantic

[05:02] relationship with Robinson.

[05:04] The roommate told police that the

[05:06] roommate received messages from Robinson

[05:09] about the shooting and pro and he did

[05:12] provide those messages to police. On

[05:15] September 10th, 2025, the roommate

[05:18] received a text message from Robinson

[05:21] which said, "Drop what you're doing.

[05:24] Look under my keyboard." The roommate

[05:27] looked under the keyboard and found a

[05:29] note that stated, quote, I had the

[05:31] opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk and

[05:34] I'm going to take it. Police found a

[05:37] photograph of this note. The following

[05:41] exchange, text exchange then took place.

[05:45] After reading the note, the roommate

[05:48] responded, "What?

[05:50] You're joking, right?" Robinson, "I am

[05:53] still okay, my love, but I'm stuck in

[05:56] Orum for a little while longer yet.

[05:59] Shouldn't be long until I can come home,

[06:01] but I got to grab my rifle still." To be

[06:05] honest, I had hoped to keep this secret

[06:07] till I died of old age. I am sorry to

[06:10] involve you.

[06:12] Roommate, you weren't the one who did

[06:14] it, right,

[06:16] Robinson? I am I am I'm sorry.

[06:20] Roommate, I thought they caught the

[06:22] person. Robinson: No, they grabbed some

[06:25] crazy old dude, then interrogated

[06:28] someone in similar clothing. I had

[06:30] planned to grab my rifle from my drop

[06:33] point shortly after, but most of that

[06:36] side of town got locked down. It's quiet

[06:39] almost enough to get out, but there's

[06:41] one vehicle lingering.

[06:43] Before we get back to this episode of On

[06:45] the Case, I need to take a moment and

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[07:42] Roommate, why? Robinson, why did I do

[07:45] it? Roommate. Yeah,

[07:49] Robinson. I had enough of his hatred.

[07:51] Some hate can't be negotiated out. If I

[07:54] am able to grab my rifle unseen, I will

[07:57] have left no evidence.

[08:02] going to attempt to retrieve it again.

[08:04] Hopefully, they have moved on. I haven't

[08:07] seen anything about them finding it.

[08:10] Roommate, how long have you been

[08:12] planning this? Robinson, a bit over a

[08:15] week, I believe. I can get close to it,

[08:18] but there is a squad car parked right by

[08:21] it. I think they already swept that

[08:23] spot, but I don't want to chance it.

[08:27] Robinson again. I'm wishing I had

[08:29] circled back and grabbed it as soon as I

[08:31] got to my vehicle. I'm worried what my

[08:34] old man would do if I didn't bring back

[08:37] grandpa's rifle.

[08:40] Ide

[08:41] had a serial number, but it wouldn't

[08:44] trace to me. I worry about Prince. I had

[08:47] to leave it in a bush where I changed

[08:49] outfits. Didn't have the ability or time

[08:52] to bring it with. I might have to

[08:55] abandon it and hope they don't find

[08:57] Prince.

[08:59] How the f will I explain losing it to my

[09:02] old man? Only thing I left was the

[09:05] rapple was the rifle wrapped in a towel.

[09:09] Remember how I was engraving bullets?

[09:12] The effing messages are mostly a big

[09:15] meme. If I see notice Bulge UW on Fox

[09:20] New, I might have a stroke. All right,

[09:23] I'm gonna have to leave it. That really

[09:26] effing sucks.

[09:28] Judging from today, I'd say Grandpa's

[09:31] Gun does just fine. IDK, I think that

[09:35] was a two a2K

[09:38] dollar scope.

[09:41] Wink wink. We know that Robinson was

[09:43] very active on social media,

[09:45] specifically the platform Discord, which

[09:47] is used for video gamers to communicate

[09:50] online. It's being reported by the

[09:52] Washington Post that he actually

[09:53] admitted in a group chat of more than 20

[09:56] people that he is the one who killed

[09:57] Charlie Kirk. He allegedly said, quote,

[09:59] "I'm surrendering through a sheriff

[10:01] friend in a few moments. Thanks for all

[10:03] the good times and laughs. You've all

[10:06] been so amazing. Thank you for

[10:08] everything." Now, investigators had said

[10:10] that Robinson's dad confronted the

[10:12] 22-year-old about the shooting and

[10:14] eventually confessed to the crime.

[10:16] Robinson surrendered himself to

[10:18] authorities after he spoke with his

[10:20] parents and a family friend. His mom, we

[10:22] found out today, was originally the

[10:25] person who sounded the alarm when she

[10:26] saw photos on the news of that person of

[10:29] interest. And she thought that person of

[10:32] interest looked like her son. On

[10:34] September 11th, 2025, the day after the

[10:37] shooting, Robinson's mother saw the

[10:40] photo of the shooter in the news and

[10:42] thought the shooter looked like her son.

[10:45] Robinson's mother called her son

[10:51] and asked him where he was. He said he

[10:54] was at home sick and that he had also

[10:57] been at home homesick. On September

[11:00] 10th, Robinson's mother expressed

[11:03] concern to her husband that the suspect

[11:05] shooter looked like Robinson. Robinson's

[11:08] father agreed.

[11:10] Robinson's mother explained that over

[11:12] the last year or so, Robinson had become

[11:16] more political and had started to lean

[11:19] more to the left, becoming more pro-gay

[11:23] and trans rightsoriented.

[11:25] She stated that Robinson began to date

[11:28] his roommate, a biological male who was

[11:31] transi trans transitioning genders.

[11:34] This resulted in several discussions

[11:36] with family members, but especially

[11:39] between Robinson and his father who have

[11:42] very different political views. In one

[11:45] conversation before the shooting,

[11:47] Robinson mentioned that Charlie Kirk

[11:50] would be holding an event at UVU, which

[11:53] Robert Robinson said was a stupid venue

[11:57] for the event. Robinson accused Kirk of

[12:01] spreading hate.

[12:03] Robinson's father reported that when his

[12:05] wife showed him the surveillance image

[12:07] of the suspected shooter in the news, he

[12:10] agreed that it looked like their son. He

[12:13] also believed that the rifle that police

[12:15] suspected the sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh

[12:17] sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh

[12:17] sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh

[12:17] sh sh sh sh sh shooter used matched a

[12:19] rifle that was given to his son as a

[12:21] gift. As a result, Robinson's father c

[12:25] contacted his son and asked him to send

[12:27] a photo of the rifle. Robinson did not

[12:30] respond.

[12:32] However, Robinson's father spoke on the

[12:34] phone with Robinson. Robinson imply

[12:37] implied that he planned to take his own

[12:40] life. Robinson's parents were able to

[12:42] convince him to meet at their home. As

[12:46] they discussed the situation, Robinson

[12:48] implied that he was the shooter and

[12:50] stated that he couldn't go to jail and

[12:52] just wanted to end it.

[12:55] When asked why he did it, Robinson

[12:58] explained there is too much evil and the

[13:00] guy referring to Charlie Kirk spreads

[13:03] too much hate. They talked about

[13:05] Robinson turning himself in and

[13:07] convinced Robinson Robinson to speak

[13:10] with a family friend who is a retired

[13:13] deputy sheriff. At Robinson father at

[13:17] Robinson's father's request, the family

[13:20] friend met with Robinson and his parents

[13:23] and convinced Robinson to turn himself

[13:25] in. Robinson was in court today on

[13:28] Tuesday. He is being held without bond.

[13:30] Now, you've heard from President Trump

[13:32] and Utah Governor Spencer Cox over the

[13:34] last several days that they say this is

[13:36] going to be a death penalty case. And

[13:38] today, that was confirmed by Utah

[13:40] prosecutors filing that they will go for

[13:42] the death penalty. And you also heard

[13:44] them lay out what they believe are the

[13:46] aggravating factors that could lead to

[13:48] the death penalty if there's a guilty

[13:50] verdict in this case. Joining us now is

[13:52] former federal prosecutor and the

[13:54] president of the West Coast Trial

[13:55] Lawyers, Nemo Romani. Thank you as

[13:57] always for taking time to be with us

[13:59] here on Law and Crime as we just minutes

[14:00] ago learned of these charges at the time

[14:02] we're recording the seven counts that

[14:04] Tyler Robinson is facing. What sticks

[14:07] out to you with what Utah prosecutors

[14:10] are going for here?

[14:12] Chris, what sticks out to me is that

[14:13] aggravated murder because of course it

[14:15] carries the potential death sentence

[14:18] there in Utah. So that's obviously the

[14:20] most serious of the charges. The

[14:22] aggravating factor is that Tyler

[14:24] Robinson shot into a crowd. Obviously,

[14:26] he hit Kirk, but he could have killed

[14:28] anyone. And I think that is what

[14:30] separates that type of murder from other

[14:34] types of murder in this case.

[14:36] And some of the aggravating factors that

[14:38] the the prosecutor talked about, I mean,

[14:40] clear Charlie Kirk himself was a

[14:42] political figure. We're learning through

[14:43] some of these text messages and discord

[14:45] messages and what family members have

[14:47] said that Tyler Robinson was very much

[14:49] into his politics and did not like

[14:51] Charlie Kirk um which is alleged uh of

[14:54] course now but you know we we'll see how

[14:56] the court process plays out. How what

[14:59] goes into determining whether he will

[15:00] actually get the death penalty.

[15:03] So the jurors have to weigh the

[15:06] aggravating factors with the mitigating

[15:08] factors. So obviously the fact that this

[15:10] was plotted, planned, premeditated,

[15:13] that's going to be an aggravating

[15:14] factor. To the extent that this was an

[15:16] assassination in a public place with his

[15:18] wife and children and other children

[15:20] present, that's going to be an

[15:21] aggravating factor. To the extent that

[15:23] this was motivated to silence someone

[15:25] because of their political beliefs,

[15:26] that's going to be an aggravating

[15:27] factor. The defense, of course, is going

[15:29] to try to do everything they can to keep

[15:31] Robinson alive. That is their sole job.

[15:34] It's going to be very hard to get a not

[15:36] guilty or an acquitt in a case like

[15:38] this. There's so much evidence, right?

[15:39] The DNA, those admissions on Discord.

[15:42] We've all seen the surveillance video.

[15:44] So, it's really going to be a case not

[15:46] about the guilt phase, but the penalty

[15:48] phase. And in mitigation, I think

[15:50] they're going to talk about the fact

[15:52] that this is someone who's 22 years old.

[15:54] He has no criminal history. He did turn

[15:56] himself in after a day or so. So those

[16:00] are going to be factors in mitigation uh

[16:02] in this particular case.

[16:04] And we hear with with Tyler Robinson and

[16:07] there is this big question of okay he he

[16:09] was into his politics which was the term

[16:11] that was in the police documents that

[16:13] he'd become more political in recent

[16:15] years. But he was someone who you could

[16:17] look and say had become radicalized in

[16:19] some way. He was an extremist when he

[16:20] came to his mind because you would go to

[16:22] the extent of killing someone who you

[16:24] you disagree with politically. Why would

[16:27] this not be a terrorism charge?

[16:29] It potentially is a terrorism charge. So

[16:32] obviously terrorism is unique in that

[16:34] we're talking about the state case, but

[16:36] of course the feds could also file this

[16:38] case. And the easiest way to do so would

[16:40] be to charge terrorism. We've seen the

[16:42] feds file over the state recently in

[16:44] some high-profile cases like Luigi

[16:46] Manion, Carlos Brown in North Carolina.

[16:49] So I wouldn't be surprised if that

[16:50] happens. Now, in the Manion case, the

[16:54] judge just dismissed the terrorism

[16:57] charge there in New York in the state

[16:59] case because terrorism requires an

[17:02] intent to either intimidate or coers the

[17:05] public or the government. Now, I'm not

[17:08] saying that didn't happen here, but in

[17:10] the Manion case, it seemed like, at

[17:12] least according to the judge, that uh

[17:14] Manion did it for his own personal

[17:16] reasons. He didn't put his manifesto

[17:17] out. He didn't share it with anyone. So

[17:20] if someone is radicalized with their own

[17:22] individual beliefs, I believe it's

[17:25] terrorism as a former federal

[17:27] prosecutor, but some judges may not, and

[17:30] that's going to be a key distinction in

[17:32] this case if they do move forward with

[17:34] the terrorism charges. Look, motive is

[17:36] an element is not an element of the

[17:38] crime in the state case. So the

[17:40] prosecution doesn't have to prove why he

[17:43] did it. And again, I'm talking about

[17:44] another case, but that happened to Brian

[17:45] Coberger, right? Cobberer was convicted

[17:47] of all these murder counts. We still

[17:49] don't really know why he did it. So

[17:51] motive may help the feds. It's not

[17:53] necessary for the state prosecutors.

[17:55] In talking about the federal charge part

[17:58] of this because with the FBI involved in

[18:00] this investigation, I mean clearly

[18:02] Charlie Kirk was someone who's very

[18:03] close to people who worked in federal

[18:05] government, most notably the president.

[18:07] What would go into the decision? Because

[18:10] at this point, if the evidence is as

[18:12] strong as it seems and you have someone

[18:15] who could be found guilty of a crime

[18:16] that would put them to death, why go

[18:19] through if the government wanted to get

[18:21] involved in charging him in federal

[18:23] court as well?

[18:25] Chris, there's law and there's crime,

[18:27] law and crime, but there's also

[18:29] politics, right? And the practical

[18:31] reality is that there's a political

[18:34] layer over this case. When you have the

[18:36] president of the United States talking

[18:38] about the case, the attorney general,

[18:40] the director of the FBI is testifying

[18:42] before Congress today talking about this

[18:46] case and Jeffrey Epstein in other cases

[18:48] as well. That's not typical. You have

[18:50] the governor of Utah seemingly doing

[18:53] daily press conferences on this case.

[18:55] Again, it's not something that typically

[18:57] happens. So when you have a lot of

[19:01] elected officials

[19:03] interested in a case, and I'm not saying

[19:05] decisions are made for political

[19:07] reasons, but the reality is that there

[19:09] is a political component here. Charlie

[19:12] Kirk was not your ordinary murder

[19:14] victim. That's why I would not be

[19:16] surprised. In fact, I expect to see

[19:18] federal charges here.

[19:20] And I thought it was interesting some of

[19:22] the aggravating factors, and they

[19:23] mentioned it it twice. You have the the

[19:25] seventh county's facing this commission

[19:26] of a violent offense in front of

[19:28] children. And then one of the

[19:29] aggravating factors that they talked

[19:31] about related to the aggravated murder

[19:34] and the felony discharge of a firearm

[19:36] and that is that it was done in front of

[19:37] children. I mean Charlie I believe his

[19:39] own kids were actually here which is

[19:40] horrific to think about as well as

[19:42] several other young people that were

[19:43] there at this event. Um, but is that

[19:47] just a specific Utah law or is that one

[19:50] in I mean clearly I could see doing an

[19:52] offense in front of a child would be

[19:53] something that deserves punishment. But

[19:55] um that was just the first time I had

[19:56] heard specifically that talked about in

[19:59] charges.

[20:00] Yeah, it's definitely a Utah state

[20:01] specific law. They certainly wanted to

[20:04] bring in evidence that this was done in

[20:06] front of his wife and kids. I mean

[20:08] that's something that it's not going to

[20:09] add a whole lot to the sentence, but it

[20:11] can bring more evidence in. And look,

[20:13] we've all seen the videos. They are

[20:14] horrific. They are gut-wrenching. You

[20:16] know, I thought I'd seen it all in my

[20:17] almost 25 years of practice, but some of

[20:20] the most uh gruesome murders that I had

[20:24] seen and really in a public place with,

[20:27] you know, thousands of people

[20:28] potentially present. So, again, an

[20:31] aggravating factor both in terms of the

[20:32] danger to the public, but also the fact

[20:35] that it was committed in front of his

[20:36] wife and kids.

[20:38] I also think too um where if he was to

[20:41] face federal charges, would that if he's

[20:44] found guilty, say he's found guilty in

[20:46] Utah for the the charges that we're

[20:48] talking about here, but then there's

[20:49] federal charges, would he go into the

[20:50] federal prison system or would he be a

[20:52] Utah you because I think of a place like

[20:54] the Supermax where you have a lot of

[20:55] high-profile

[20:57] uh inmates, Johar Zarnay of the Boston

[20:59] Bombers there for example. I mean, is

[21:01] that something that potentially could be

[21:02] in the future of Tyler Robinson if found

[21:05] guilty on federal charges? potentially.

[21:07] Yes, Chris. And I can tell you that he

[21:08] probably wants to serve federal prison

[21:10] time. The reality is federal prisons are

[21:12] a lot nicer than most state prisons.

[21:14] Derek Schovin for the murder of George

[21:17] Floyd chose and asked to serve his time

[21:19] in federal prison. Now, he's also a

[21:21] police officer and he didn't want to run

[21:23] into some of his uh former arrestes in

[21:26] state prison, but there's no question

[21:28] that uh if we're talking about life

[21:30] sentences, most inmates would rather

[21:32] serve federal time than state time

[21:34] because again, you have less violent

[21:35] criminals, you got a lot more white

[21:37] collar types as well in federal prison.

[21:40] And then when it comes to his defense,

[21:41] and I know we were talking about that at

[21:43] the beginning, where it may not be a he

[21:45] wasn't the one who did it, but it's

[21:46] just, you know, can you get him a life

[21:49] sentence without the death penalty. Um,

[21:52] what would you need to happen? I know

[21:54] we're in the very early stages today.

[21:55] He's expected to make his first court

[21:57] appearance. But as a defense attorney,

[21:59] what would you need to happen for things

[22:01] to go your way in a trial, considering

[22:03] all the evidence and all the political

[22:05] pressure and anger surrounding this this

[22:08] suspect and defendant?

[22:10] Chris, your number one job as a death

[22:12] penalty qualified lawyer is to keep your

[22:14] client alive. So, there's two phases to

[22:16] these murder trials and a death penalty

[22:18] case. There's the guilt phase and

[22:20] there's the penalty phase. It's going to

[22:22] be very tough to defend this case in the

[22:26] guilt phase. So, typically in murder

[22:28] cases that we cover here on the law and

[22:30] crime. You'll see one of three defenses.

[22:33] It wasn't me. Well, we've all seen the

[22:36] video. His DNA is at the scene. We have

[22:38] his admissions. Um, I didn't intend to

[22:41] do it. It was an accident. Well, again,

[22:42] it was premeditated. We have Discord

[22:44] messages before where he's planning

[22:47] this. It was clearly premeditated. he's

[22:49] using uh a boltaction rifle with a

[22:52] scope. And the third was that it was

[22:54] self-defense. I don't think any of those

[22:56] defenses apply. It's very hard to get a

[22:58] diminished capacity or insanity type

[23:01] defense in most states, especially Utah.

[23:03] You really have to show that you don't

[23:04] know right from wrong. By all accounts,

[23:06] Tyler Robinson's a smart kid, did well

[23:08] on his ACTs, was an engineering major.

[23:11] So, I think if you're the defense here,

[23:13] Chris, you really got to plead guilty

[23:16] during the guilt phase or don't put up

[23:18] much of a defense and focus your

[23:20] attention on the penalty phase. We saw

[23:22] this strategy work with some success uh

[23:25] with Nicholas Cruz, the Parkland school

[23:27] shooter, right? The defense just focused

[23:28] all their attention to save his life.

[23:30] And ultimately, they were successful

[23:31] because you have to get 12 out of 12

[23:34] jurors. It's very hard to get a death

[23:36] sentence, especially for someone who's

[23:38] younger. I'm not saying you can't get

[23:40] there if you're the prosecution, but

[23:41] it's not a foregone conclusion like a

[23:44] guilty verdict is. So, I think the

[23:46] defense will lean into some of the

[23:48] mitigating factors that we talked about.

[23:50] And look, the reality is that he comes

[23:52] from a good Mormon family reportedly.

[23:54] There's a lot of Mormon jurors in Utah.

[23:56] I'm not saying people are going to make

[23:58] decisions based on religious reasons,

[24:00] but some people may have a tough time

[24:02] putting this kid to death. And you only

[24:05] need one out of 12 jurors if you're the

[24:08] defense. The other thing we'll probably

[24:10] see them do is the Coberger strategy is

[24:12] litigate everything. File every motion

[24:15] you can. Not because you think that you

[24:17] actually have a chance of success, but

[24:18] to create appellet issues because we

[24:21] know that it's much easier and more

[24:24] likely to get a death sentence reversed

[24:26] on appeal because there's mandatory

[24:27] state and federal appeals than actually

[24:29] convincing a death penalty qualified

[24:31] jury not to return a death sentence.

[24:33] Yeah. Fasting. I mean, we we'll see how

[24:35] this plays out. I mean, certainly now we

[24:37] have the seven counts that he's facing

[24:38] and we'll see how the the court case of

[24:41] what has been um a very political story,

[24:44] how that now plays out. Nemo Romani,

[24:46] it's always great to have you on Law and

[24:47] Crime. Thanks for being with us.

[24:49] Of course, Chris, thanks for having me.

[24:50] Talk soon.

[24:51] That will do it for On the Case

[24:52] presented by Law and Crime. Subscribe to

[24:54] us on YouTube and Spotify. I'm Chris

[24:56] Stewart. We'll see you next time.

[24:59] [Music]