Criminal Defense Attorney Phil Harvey Analyzes Charlie Kirk Assassination Charges Against Tyler Robinson

[00:00] [Music]

[00:03] Hi everybody. I'm Britney Lewis, a

[00:05] breaking news reporter here at Forbes.

[00:07] Joining me now is criminal defense

[00:08] attorney Phil Harvey. Phil, thank you so

[00:10] much for joining me.

[00:12] Thanks for having me, Britney.

[00:14] As we all know, last week Charlie Kirk,

[00:16] a conservative activist and co-founder

[00:18] of Turning Point USA, was assassinated

[00:21] while on stage at an event at a Utah

[00:23] university. Tyler Robinson, a

[00:25] 22-year-old, is accused of his murder.

[00:27] And here are the charges he faces.

[00:29] Felony aggravated murder, felony

[00:31] discharge of a firearm causing serious

[00:33] bodily harm, two counts of obstruction

[00:35] of justice, two counts of witness

[00:37] tampering, and commission of a violent

[00:39] offense in the presence of a child. So,

[00:41] to start off the conversation, as a

[00:43] criminal defense attorney, can you break

[00:45] down these charges for us? What do you

[00:47] make of them? Britney, it's very common

[00:50] in uh cases like this where you have a

[00:54] heinous act and a a quick investigation

[00:58] along with uh a lot of evidence that the

[01:02] prosecution is going to pursue every

[01:04] charge available to them. And so

[01:06] obviously we see the murder charge um

[01:09] then in in this case a uh felony

[01:12] discharge of a firearm charge in the

[01:15] obstructions of justice. What the

[01:17] prosecution is doing in this indictment

[01:19] is they have they are examining the

[01:21] evidence they have thus far and asking

[01:24] which crimes apply to the specific

[01:27] actions taken by Mr. Robinson.

[01:29] Obviously, the murders, the killing, uh

[01:31] the obstruction of the justice for

[01:32] things like uh attempting to hide the

[01:34] rifle, the witness tampering for asking

[01:37] his romantic partner to delete text

[01:39] messages and not share additional

[01:40] information. And so we do have quite a

[01:43] detailed indictment of what the specific

[01:46] conduct is supporting each of these

[01:48] charges, but the prosecution's job

[01:50] moving forward will be to continue to

[01:52] flesh those out.

[01:53] I do want to talk about the evidence

[01:54] that prosecutors say that they have.

[01:57] According to them, Tyler Robinson's mom

[01:59] saw a photo released by law enforcement

[02:01] of the shooter. She recognized that

[02:03] photo and she thought it was her son.

[02:05] Her son then quote implied that he was

[02:07] the shooter to his parents. There's also

[02:10] DNA evidence that's consistent with

[02:11] Robinson's on the rifle. And I want to

[02:14] talk about some text messages that

[02:15] prosecutors say are between Robinson and

[02:18] his roommate. He, according to these

[02:21] text messages, told his roommate to look

[02:23] under his keyboard, and there was a note

[02:25] that said this quote, "I had the

[02:26] opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk,

[02:28] and I'm going to take it." He also

[02:30] admitted that he was the shooter to his

[02:32] roommate via text. When you're looking

[02:35] at all of this evidence that prosecutors

[02:37] compiled, how strong do you think it is,

[02:39] Britney? Could it be any stronger? I

[02:41] mean, honestly, in in so many murder

[02:44] cases, I have seen just one or two of

[02:47] those uh pieces of evidence would be

[02:50] enough for a prosecution to move

[02:52] forward. Uh then, of course, the after

[02:54] the indictment comes, the question

[02:56] starts to become, can they prove it at

[02:58] trial? But to me, to my mind, the some

[03:00] of the the the three strongest pieces

[03:03] are he made a confession,

[03:06] people who know him identified him based

[03:08] on the surveillance footage, and the DNA

[03:11] on the rifle allegedly at this point is

[03:14] consistent with his DNA. Any one of

[03:16] those things would be enough for a

[03:19] prosecution to ask a jury to convict in

[03:21] this case. And so then on the flip side

[03:24] here, what type of defense do you think

[03:26] his team should mount? Especially

[03:28] considering you're saying could this

[03:30] evidence be any stronger?

[03:34] The a prosecutor for the state of Utah

[03:37] has already has already gone on the

[03:39] record saying they're going to seek the

[03:40] death penalty. And Britney, whenever you

[03:43] have a case like this where the

[03:45] allegation is murder and the evidence is

[03:47] strong and the state is seeking the

[03:49] death penalty, essentially it becomes a

[03:51] referendum on capital punishment. Was

[03:54] this an evil act? And does he deserve to

[03:57] be killed or was he suffering from some

[04:00] sort of mental illness or were there

[04:02] other factors that suggest that uh he

[04:06] doesn't deserve the death penalty in

[04:09] this case? Uh obviously uh this is a

[04:12] politically charged issue, politically

[04:15] charged case. Um and I think the danger

[04:18] here is that politics might overshadow

[04:20] uh what the prosecution might be trying

[04:22] to do or what the defense might be

[04:24] trying to do. But typically what you

[04:25] would see is this case in terms of what

[04:28] happens in court legally that it quickly

[04:31] becomes about whether or not the death

[04:32] penalty is warranted. Let's talk about

[04:35] the death penalty here because

[04:37] prosecutors said that they are pursuing

[04:39] the death penalty. Do you think that the

[04:41] death penalty makes it harder for the

[04:43] prosecution? What do you think this adds

[04:46] by being on the table?

[04:48] Death penalty cases do tend to take

[04:52] longer. They take more effort and the uh

[04:56] the defense afforded to even an indigent

[04:59] defendant in most states is more robust.

[05:02] And so uh the anytime the prosecution

[05:06] decides to seek death penalty in a case

[05:08] they are signing up generally speaking

[05:10] for a longer harder fight. Uh one of the

[05:14] most important aspects of any death

[05:16] penalty case is the defense uh will seek

[05:20] to uh the defense and the prosecution um

[05:24] put it this way that the prosecution

[05:26] wants to death proof the jury. In other

[05:29] words, they want to make sure that every

[05:32] juror impanled in the case is willing to

[05:34] impose the death penalty uh if the facts

[05:38] support the law and the law requires it.

[05:41] The defense on the other hand will be uh

[05:43] will not be allowed to exclude people

[05:47] who are pro death penalty. And so the

[05:49] law requires a juror a jury of

[05:52] individuals who are all um willing to

[05:55] impose the death penalty. And then the

[05:56] defense will attempt to

[05:59] uh select a jury and present a case such

[06:02] that even those individuals who are in

[06:05] favor of the death penalty generally

[06:07] won't apply it in this case

[06:08] specifically. So that is what most of

[06:11] the additional work and complexity

[06:13] surrounding a death penalty case looks

[06:14] like.

[06:16] And so based on this evidence, based on

[06:18] the fact that they are seeking the death

[06:20] penalty, do you think what do you think

[06:22] the hardest moment will be for the

[06:24] prosecutors? What do you think is the

[06:26] biggest hill that they have to climb

[06:28] here?

[06:29] Probably getting it to trial. Uh the

[06:32] what will what will happen often times

[06:34] in death penalty cases is uh the defense

[06:38] will want to uncover uh every stone in

[06:42] Mr. Robinson's past and every stone in

[06:46] his potential defense to make sure that

[06:48] once the case is presented to the jury,

[06:51] the jurors have enough information to

[06:54] feel like they understand Mr. Robinson

[06:56] and his motives and his actions. And um

[06:59] and so just that preparation process is

[07:04] probably going to be the uh the hardest

[07:07] part of the prosecution's job once they

[07:09] get to trial. Again, Britney, it just

[07:12] seems like the evidence already sounds

[07:14] to be overwhelming and uh and then it'll

[07:18] be a matter of again uh asking the jury

[07:22] to decide whether or not death is

[07:23] warranted in the case.

[07:25] I do want to talk about the motive

[07:26] because that has been a central point of

[07:29] the conversation when it comes to the

[07:30] assassination of Charlie Kirk. This is

[07:33] what prosecutors have said of the motive

[07:34] so far. The charging documents said that

[07:36] Robinson targeted Kirk because of his

[07:38] quote belief or perception regarding

[07:41] Charlie Kirk's political expression.

[07:43] Also, prosecutors say that Robinson's

[07:46] mom said that Robinson has been leaning

[07:49] left in his political ideology as of

[07:51] late. And then in a text message, the

[07:53] roommate asked why Robinson would shoot

[07:55] Charlie Kirk. And this is what Robinson

[07:57] texted back. Quote, "I had enough of his

[07:59] hatred. Some hatred can't be negotiated

[08:02] out." So, as a criminal defense

[08:04] attorney, is that a strong enough

[08:06] motive? What else do you think needs to

[08:08] be discovered here?

[08:09] Well, technically, motive is not

[08:11] required under under the law for a

[08:13] conviction. Uh, what motive does do is

[08:16] it helps uh paint the picture and

[08:19] perhaps helps the jury understand why a

[08:22] defendant may have uh acted with

[08:24] premeditation and planning and intent to

[08:27] cause the death. uh the uh so the s the

[08:32] short answer to your question is no the

[08:33] prosecution doesn't need any more

[08:35] evidence about motive and you know I I

[08:39] think what the defense will be looking

[08:41] at is you have an otherwise straight A

[08:43] student who all certainly was by all

[08:48] accounts motivated politically but he

[08:51] seemed to conduct this crime and his his

[08:56] actions afterwards to suggest just that.

[09:00] I mean, how did he think he was going to

[09:01] get away with it? He he was sharing

[09:04] essentially making confessions and

[09:05] sharing uh details about what he had

[09:08] done with individuals that certainly he

[09:12] thought he could trust, but somehow he

[09:13] thought he could share this openly with

[09:15] other individuals and get away with it.

[09:17] And so I think that while the motive is

[09:20] clear, what was actually going on in his

[09:22] head may be the issue that's that's more

[09:25] thoroughly litigated in the case.

[09:27] So, we just saw this evidence. We saw

[09:29] this charging document just earlier this

[09:32] week. What specifically are you looking

[09:34] out for next? Because we're still in the

[09:36] beginning stages here.

[09:38] The next steps here will be a lengthy

[09:41] discovery process. Uh the the

[09:43] prosecution will share information about

[09:45] their investigation with the defense. Uh

[09:48] the defense will need to build a team

[09:49] here. Typically, you're going to have at

[09:52] least two attorneys on a death case as

[09:55] well as per perhaps a private

[09:57] investigator, a mitigation specialist,

[09:59] and they'll begin to do their work in in

[10:02] their own investigation into his Mr.

[10:04] Robinson's life as an individual. So, I

[10:06] think what we'll see are several uh

[10:09] several court appearances in the near

[10:11] future where the prosecution and the

[10:12] defense discuss how far along that

[10:15] discovery process is going and then

[10:17] eventually perhaps a scheduling order

[10:19] where the judge gives uh gives both

[10:21] sides some deadlines in the case as they

[10:23] try to get it ready for trial. Well, we

[10:25] certainly have a lot to look out for and

[10:27] as we see major developments in this

[10:30] case, I hope you can come back on and

[10:32] break them down for us. Criminal defense

[10:34] attorney Phil Harvey, thank you so much

[10:36] for the conversation. You're welcome

[10:37] back anytime.

[10:39] Glad to be here, Britney. Thank you.