Reflecting on a Controversial Reaction: George Abaraonye’s Perspective

[00:00] I mean, look, let's let's get it

[00:01] straight out there. I mean, clearly it

[00:03] was a stupid and offensive thing to

[00:05] write. Yeah, of course. I think, you

[00:07] know, like you said, a stupid and kind

[00:09] of silly thing for me to say. I reacted

[00:11] to kind of a notification and the

[00:13] headline. I had no real context for, you

[00:16] know, what had happened. I didn't really

[00:17] understand the severity of the

[00:18] situation. Did you know who Kirk was? I

[00:20] did know who Kirk was. Um I had

[00:21] previously debated him. Um but I didn't

[00:24] really understand, I think, the severity

[00:25] of the situation at the time. And you

[00:26] know, I reacted and I reacted poorly.

[00:28] And then, upon kind of realizing just

[00:30] how serious kind of these things were, I

[00:32] kind of deleted everything I posted on

[00:34] my social media kind of apologizing and

[00:37] reflecting on the moment cuz I realized,

[00:38] you know, that reaction wasn't befitting

[00:40] of how severe the situation was. And

[00:43] this was all kind of a day before the

[00:44] news cycle and the press started. And

[00:46] so, kind of yeah, it's been kind of a

[00:47] lot then having to kind of deal with all

[00:50] of that going forward.

[00:50] >> I want to talk about that. But I suppose

[00:52] just just to say cuz there'll be some

[00:53] people listening saying, "Well, you

[00:54] know, did you really need to know how

[00:56] severe the situation was?" I mean, you

[00:57] knew a guy who you'd met had got shot. I

[00:59] mean, some people would say, "How could

[01:02] you react that way?" No, of course. And

[01:04] I think it's a valid position, I think.

[01:06] >> Why did you? I think part of the Mr. Mr.

[01:09] Kirk's comments don't exist in a vacuum,

[01:10] you know. He is a incredibly kind of

[01:13] polarizing figure. And I think it's

[01:15] almost a symptom of him and my reaction

[01:17] a symptom of kind of how we have

[01:19] discourse online in which, you know,

[01:21] it's often times very active. It's often

[01:23] times about saying something almost

[01:25] inflammatory almost because I wanted to

[01:27] say spark conversation about kind of

[01:29] what had happened the fact that, "Oh my

[01:31] god, like this is such a major event

[01:32] that's just taken place." And You wanted

[01:34] to get a You wanted to get a reaction.

[01:35] >> Exactly. I wanted to get a reaction. I

[01:36] wanted to have a conversation. And, you

[01:38] know, A laugh? Almost almost exactly.

[01:40] Like a laugh and a bit of a reaction.

[01:41] And kind of I realized afterwards that,

[01:44] you know, that wasn't the right way to

[01:45] go about it. You know, that instead of

[01:48] having a conversation about perhaps Mr.

[01:50] Kirk and his political legacy, I was

[01:52] instead having conversations about is

[01:54] that the appropriate way to react. And I

[01:55] don't think that was the kind of

[01:56] conversation I wanted to have.

[01:57] >> obviously, why so many people found it

[01:59] so offensive.

[02:00] >> Of course. Of course. Yeah, no, of

[02:01] course. I can understand why because,

[02:03] you know, I think it's a very kind of

[02:04] shocking thing sometimes to see to see

[02:06] such a reaction like that.

[02:07] >> But of course, um

[02:09] you sent this message. It was in a

[02:10] private WhatsApp group. It was then

[02:11] leaked, I think. Um

[02:13] and then you found yourself at the

[02:15] center of immense press interest,

[02:18] immense media interest. You know,

[02:20] leading politicians talking about you

[02:22] and about because of the position you

[02:23] had as as the president-elect of the

[02:26] Oxford Union, which is a, you know,

[02:27] famous debating society at Oxford

[02:28] University. Lots of politicians have

[02:30] attended there themselves.

[02:32] That must have been a very curious and

[02:34] and weird period for you to find

[02:35] yourself. Yes, clearly a crass, stupid

[02:38] message, offensive message. But

[02:40] you found yourself scrutinized in a way

[02:41] that leading politicians are

[02:43] scrutinized. Yeah, I think it was

[02:45] definitely a shock for me. I think

[02:47] there's a weird disconnect, I think, as

[02:49] a student versus, you know, your role

[02:51] within the Oxford Union. And as a

[02:53] student, you think, you know, you have

[02:55] the space to say stupid things. But then

[02:57] to, you know, make a mistake and learn

[02:58] from that and grow from that. And, you

[03:00] know, the assumption being that that

[03:02] kind of growth and that kind of period

[03:04] of say criticism isn't going to happen

[03:05] across, you know, international news.

[03:07] And so, definitely it was, you know, a

[03:09] bit of a shock for me to kind of

[03:11] A have to kind of like go through that.

[03:13] But then, I think,

[03:15] you know, in a in a sense it's been

[03:16] quite formative as well because,

[03:19] you know, for as for as for as as great

[03:21] as the pressure's been, you know, I've

[03:22] been able to take away a lot from that

[03:24] and learn a lot from that kind of

[03:26] engagement and the fact that, you know,

[03:27] people have still been able to come up

[03:28] and talk to me and have discussion with

[03:30] me. And I've been able to learn a lot

[03:31] from not just the reaction but also from

[03:33] people engaging with me in discussion

[03:35] and pointing out other things.

[03:37] >> the scrutiny or not?

[03:39] I think there are two sides to the

[03:40] scrutiny. I think, you know, there is

[03:42] there is fair criticism about kind of

[03:44] what I said and whether or not that

[03:45] reaction was fair or befitting of the

[03:47] situation. And I think we can we can all

[03:50] agree that that is perhaps fair

[03:51] criticism. I think the other side of the

[03:52] criticism I received was not necessarily

[03:55] about what I said but more about what I

[03:57] looked like. It was about the grades I'd

[03:59] received. It was about kind of my

[04:01] background or music taste.

[04:03] >> you basically were DEI that you got into

[04:05] Oxford. Exactly. And I think

[04:06] >> Having no idea about your actual history

[04:08] and so on.

[04:08] >> Exactly. Because you're a black man.

[04:10] >> Yeah, exactly. And I think we can be

[04:12] like very specific and very deliberate

[04:14] in making distinctions to the fact that,

[04:16] you know, there is that fair criticism

[04:17] of me and there is should be a space to

[04:19] have that fair criticism of me. And, you

[04:21] know, be responsible in how we go about

[04:23] that in in in consideration of the fact

[04:25] that, you know, I am still a student.

[04:27] But then I think we can also be fair in

[04:29] calling out what what has also been a

[04:31] lot of kind of just racist and classist

[04:33] vitriol based on the fact that I'm a

[04:34] black person, the fact that, you know,

[04:36] I'm a student at Oxford. And I think,

[04:38] you know, we can be deliberate in in

[04:40] splitting apart the two things. Did you

[04:42] um receive threats of violence against

[04:44] you? Yeah, threats. Yeah, I received

[04:46] threats of violence. You know, my family

[04:48] did, my friends did. And, you know, it

[04:49] was a very difficult time, I think, not

[04:51] just for me, you know, but also

[04:54] realizing that, you know, my mistake has

[04:56] not only impacted my life but could

[04:58] impact other people's lives and impact

[05:00] even just broader communities, you know,

[05:01] around me. And that was kind of a scary

[05:04] scary time not just for me but also

[05:06] in understanding, I guess, the

[05:07] responsibility that I bore as kind of a

[05:10] student leader in some capacity. What

[05:11] would you like to say just finally,

[05:13] George? Um what would you like to say

[05:15] to,

[05:16] you know, those people who knew Kirk and

[05:17] maybe saw your comments. But also, what

[05:19] would you like to say to

[05:21] some of the people who said these things

[05:22] about you? Cuz both things can be wrong.

[05:24] Yeah. [laughter] Um and we should have

[05:26] that nuance and be able to say that

[05:27] you've apologized. There's something

[05:28] about forgiveness and grace which

[05:30] Exactly. What would you like to say to

[05:32] those two groups? I think I think the

[05:34] first thing I'd like to say is, you

[05:36] know, like I said, I've I I'm learning

[05:39] and I'm growing. And I've and I think

[05:40] I've been quite open and honest about

[05:42] the fact that I made a mistake. And

[05:44] yeah, I'm willing to learn and grow from

[05:46] that. And I I would ask that, you know,

[05:48] people give me the space to have that

[05:50] growth, to be able to learn from the

[05:51] situation because, you know, I'm not

[05:52] perfect. I'm And you are 20 years old.

[05:54] >> Exactly. I'm still I'm still I'm still

[05:55] just a young adult. And university is

[05:57] kind of that space to be able to make a

[05:58] mistake and learn from that mistake. And

[06:00] I want to be able to do that. And I

[06:01] think,

[06:02] you know, in in another in another

[06:04] sense, I would hope that

[06:07] all of us are kind of able to take away

[06:08] from this

[06:10] a lesson perhaps in how we talk about

[06:12] politics online in that, you know,

[06:14] perhaps we should move away from this

[06:15] kind of incitement of reaction in and

[06:18] this kind of inflammatory nature of

[06:20] political discourse. And perhaps look

[06:21] towards kind of more empathy within our

[06:23] politics. Perhaps look towards more kind

[06:25] of

[06:26] collaborative discourse when we talk

[06:28] about politics.