Charlie Kirk suspect’s lover: who is he and where is he?

[00:00] Hey guys, thanks so much for checking

[00:01] out my channel. I really appreciate it.

[00:02] I'm on the move again. I'm in the

[00:04] airport super early right now if I look

[00:05] a little tired. Uh but in this episode,

[00:08] I'm really digging into the latest on

[00:10] the Charlie Kirk assassination.

[00:12] Specifically, who uh the alleged

[00:15] assassin,

[00:17] um Tyler Robinson's romantic partner and

[00:21] roommate is. His name is Lance Twigs. Uh

[00:23] there's been very very little

[00:25] information about him, but I've got a

[00:26] ton of new info in this uh episode.

[00:30] Questions about where he is now. He

[00:33] basically vanished from his townhouse

[00:36] where he was living with the alleged

[00:38] assassin. Where could he be now? Uh and

[00:41] and new things that that we've learned

[00:43] about him from from friends, from people

[00:46] who actually knew him very well and also

[00:48] knew Tyler uh very very well. getting

[00:51] into all of that and the latest on the

[00:53] assassination. I know, you know, there's

[00:55] been a lot of other news. Um, some

[00:57] people have moved on. I'm trying to to

[00:59] stick with it uh and make sure to keep

[01:01] digging. I'm going to get into it in

[01:02] this edition. A Brian Anton

[01:04] investigates. All right. So, my buddy,

[01:05] uh, Ben Ashford joins me now. Ben works

[01:08] at the Daily Mail. You may have seen him

[01:09] in a couple of my other episodes. Um,

[01:12] he's a an awesome journalist, uh, but

[01:15] also my friend. Uh, and I was in Utah

[01:19] for quite a while after Charlie Kirk's

[01:21] assassination. And then I left and then

[01:23] Ben, it just so happens, went to St.

[01:25] George, Utah, which is where um Tyler

[01:28] Robinson was living with his um roommate

[01:33] slash I forget what what they've been

[01:35] calling him. His what like lover

[01:37] basically.

[01:39] >> Partner, lover, boyfriend.

[01:41] >> Yeah. And uh that's also where Tyler

[01:43] Robinson's parents live. And Ben was

[01:45] there. Were you there for like a week?

[01:47] >> Uh, I was there for like four or five

[01:49] days.

[01:50] >> Four or five days. So, um, first of all,

[01:53] I never went to St. George. I just

[01:54] stayed near Salt Lake near where the

[01:56] shooting happened. Um, what what is

[01:59] Well, first of all, everybody want Let

[02:00] me just start with everybody wants to

[02:02] know where

[02:04] um where the roommate lover is. His name

[02:07] is Lance Twigs. Do we do we have any

[02:10] idea?

[02:11] Uh, no we don't. But we we have some

[02:15] hints.

[02:17] So he lived in this um uh three bed

[02:22] townhouse with Tyler Robinson.

[02:25] And we know that in the immediate

[02:27] aftermath of Robinson turning himself

[02:30] into police,

[02:33] um the law enforcement went round to

[02:36] that property and they led him out and

[02:39] they took him away for questioning and

[02:42] he has not been back there. And it looks

[02:44] like nobody's been back there cuz to

[02:46] describe what it looks like, uh there's

[02:49] lights on upstairs 24/7.

[02:53] There's journalist cards wedged in the

[02:56] door. There's Amazon parcels.

[02:58] Um, his cars parked in his designated

[03:02] space. He's got his, um, he's a

[03:05] part-time plumber. His plumbing gear,

[03:08] like some of his equipment's on the back

[03:10] seat. There's a sandwich wrapper. Um, an

[03:14] empty drink, half half finishedish drink

[03:16] on the front seat. So, whoever, if you

[03:19] look at that scene, it just looks like

[03:21] he left in a hurry and he didn't come

[03:22] back. You know, he's not even turned the

[03:24] lights on uh off. Um but we have had

[03:27] some hints. The the the sheriff for

[03:30] Washington County

[03:32] um said in in an interview that he's in

[03:35] a safe space very far from St. George,

[03:39] which tallies with I mean, we've been

[03:41] asking our sources at the FBI, you know,

[03:44] is he in protective custody of of some

[03:47] variety because it would be such an

[03:49] obvious step because he's

[03:52] excuse me, he's a a very central

[03:55] significant witness in our politically

[04:00] charged crime. Um, and they've got to

[04:03] make sure he's okay.

[04:06] And there's really strong feeling on all

[04:08] sides of this thing. So he would meet

[04:10] the criteria for uh federal protective

[04:13] custody and our sources have not

[04:18] confirmed that certainly not on the

[04:20] record. Um but they they've hinted that

[04:24] something like that is in play and that

[04:26] would tell you with the fact that no one

[04:28] has seen him. No one's been back to that

[04:31] townhouse.

[04:33] >> Yeah. Yeah. You're talking about like

[04:34] basically witness protection program

[04:36] possible.

[04:36] >> Exactly. Yeah. Mhm.

[04:38] >> He never returned to get clothes or

[04:39] anything from what you could tell.

[04:42] >> I I mean I don't know that but if he

[04:45] went back he didn't turn the lights off.

[04:47] He didn't uh if he's gone back stage he

[04:50] hasn't picked up his Amazon parcels and

[04:53] he hasn't got his he's got a rucks sack

[04:55] on the back seat of his car.

[04:58] So, if he's gone back to the property,

[05:00] he might have gone briefly, I guess, but

[05:02] none of the neighbors have seen him and

[05:05] he's not driving his own vehicle as as

[05:07] far as I know. You know, I can only make

[05:09] observations based on what I can see and

[05:11] I haven't been there like 24/7,

[05:14] but the neighbors are saying that no one

[05:17] has been back at that property since he

[05:19] was taken away.

[05:20] >> What did you say was on his back seat? A

[05:22] rucks sack. What was that?

[05:23] >> There's a there's like a black uh

[05:25] backpack. Oh, did you say napsack?

[05:28] >> We call it a rug sack.

[05:29] >> A rug. A rug sack. Like our

[05:32] >> We'd say a rucks sack, but it's I think

[05:34] you call it a backpack.

[05:36] >> Yeah. I was like,

[05:37] >> you know, it's like one of these ones we

[05:38] have for work with all our gear in it,

[05:40] our laptop and bits and bobs.

[05:42] >> Um, and he's got one of those on the

[05:46] back and he's got it looks like a sandal

[05:48] or something. I couldn't really tell,

[05:49] but he's got some equipment consistent

[05:51] with sort of DIY or being a handyman.

[05:54] And we were told that he did some

[05:56] plumbing.

[05:58] So that looks to me like maybe that's

[06:00] some of his work stuff on the back seat.

[06:02] So he hasn't taken that and you know

[06:06] half eaten food on the front seat. It

[06:08] just looks like someone's gone in a

[06:10] hurry and they haven't come back.

[06:12] >> So what have you what were you able to I

[06:14] know when you were there you were able

[06:15] to interview people who knew him.

[06:17] >> Yeah.

[06:19] >> First of all, who who are they and like

[06:21] what what did what did they you find

[06:22] out?

[06:24] Well, the most um useful thing uh useful

[06:28] conversation I had with with a lady

[06:30] called um Jackie Nielsen.

[06:33] Her children, she's actually a mom of

[06:35] six. And

[06:38] some of the children, in fact, I think

[06:40] all of the children went to high school

[06:42] with Lance.

[06:44] And not only were they good friends and

[06:47] Lance would come over and hang out, she

[06:50] actually took him in for a period when

[06:52] he fell out with his parents.

[06:54] So he was actually under her roof.

[06:57] Um, and she spoke very highly of him.

[07:01] She said he was quiet, but you know, had

[07:05] a had a a small loyal

[07:08] um circle of friends

[07:11] and she would open up with those

[07:12] friends. He was like bubbly, smart, very

[07:15] intelligent. We're talking like a

[07:17] straight A student at high school level.

[07:21] And she considered him a really good

[07:23] influence. She said that if Lance was

[07:27] going out with her sons, she actually

[07:30] felt um they, you know, things would be

[07:35] safer, more adult, they get home on

[07:37] time, they come home sober because she

[07:40] thought he was a very positive influence

[07:42] on her family. So, he spent some time

[07:47] with her and but then he moved into the

[07:51] apartment we were just talking about. So

[07:53] I think he's been there for 3 years or

[07:54] thereabouts. And Tyler Robinson came as

[07:59] a housemate or roommate, sorry,

[08:02] roommate. And at some point it said that

[08:07] they, you know, became romantically

[08:08] involved and they were in a relationship

[08:11] when the Charlie Kirk assassination

[08:13] unfolded.

[08:15] >> Did she say anything about him being

[08:18] trans, transitioning from male to

[08:21] female?

[08:22] Uh she said that among his circle of

[08:27] friends it was just accepted that he was

[08:30] gay.

[08:32] Um that wasn't a big issue. You know St.

[08:35] George is quite a conservative place.

[08:38] It's about sort of 2/3 Mormon.

[08:41] His parents were apparently quite

[08:43] strict.

[08:45] Um and that's what they fell out over

[08:47] allegedly. You know he just said he

[08:49] didn't want to go to church anymore.

[08:51] There's been some reporting that he took

[08:55] drugs, so he had a bad attitude, or he

[08:58] spoke badly about Christians or

[08:59] conservatives.

[09:01] She didn't say any of that to me. She

[09:03] said that um he, you know, he wasn't

[09:07] really overtly rebellious. He didn't

[09:10] voice political opinions. He didn't push

[09:12] his opinions on other people. She said

[09:15] that as an adult she knew that he had

[09:18] had some problems and those mental

[09:21] health problems. She said that he had

[09:24] allegedly uh taken pot mushrooms.

[09:29] But she said that through through all

[09:32] that and she described him as a kid in

[09:34] turmoil, not a bad person, a kid in

[09:36] turmoil who was struggling to sort of

[09:39] get over this bust with his family and

[09:41] some some typical like late teen, early

[09:44] 20s issues, but you know, she was

[09:48] consistently saying that he was still a

[09:50] a kind, friendly, um, you know,

[09:54] welladjusted boy. So, she didn't see

[09:57] this angry, hateful side. And sorry, get

[10:01] back to the trans thing. She said that

[10:03] she had heard recently that he was

[10:06] transitioning. She had not had a

[10:08] discussion with him about it. Um, when

[10:11] she last saw him, he'd thrown his hair

[10:13] out, but very little else. He he he

[10:17] didn't have any overt signs that he was

[10:20] really doing anything. Um, and

[10:24] there hasn't been no one officially has

[10:26] said that he was trans as as far as I

[10:29] know. I think it's been said that he had

[10:31] an interesting ideology of that sort and

[10:34] and and so forth. But the charging

[10:37] documents all call him a he. They all

[10:39] refer to him as a male. Hence, you know,

[10:42] that's what we're doing. But she said

[10:44] that he she had heard he was

[10:46] transitioning. Um but in her eyes it had

[10:49] just amounted to you know growing his

[10:51] hair longer.

[10:53] >> Yeah, you're right. The charging

[10:54] documents say he but the governor I

[10:57] think it was the governor who first said

[10:59] that he is transitioning from

[11:02] >> Yeah, for sure

[11:03] >> to never really knew the extent of that

[11:06] like what that really I don't know

[11:08] meant.

[11:09] >> Well, her sons are such good friends

[11:12] with him that they've been interviewed

[11:14] by the FBI.

[11:16] >> Oh wow. They've spent time with him

[11:18] recently. They know Tyler

[11:22] and she says he was transitioning. So I

[11:25] think on

[11:26] >> I think on the transitioning side, I

[11:28] think we can accept that that's pretty

[11:30] much been

[11:32] borne out in the reporting.

[11:34] >> In terms of the FBI, I think it was two

[11:37] of her sons have been interviewed by the

[11:38] FBI. Now, it's important to get the

[11:40] order of this right. So, if you you know

[11:44] from your own reporting, what happened

[11:46] was after the shooting, Tyler had had a

[11:50] text message exchange with Lance

[11:53] basically saying, "I did it and

[11:58] allegedly confessing."

[12:00] And after that conversation,

[12:04] but before Lance was questioned by the

[12:07] police, he had a conversation with this

[12:11] lady's two sons, I believe, via text

[12:13] message. So, at that point, when Lance

[12:16] reached out to his two mates, he knew

[12:19] what Tyler had done. He hadn't turned

[12:22] him in, and he hadn't been questioned.

[12:25] So, this was that window where Lance

[12:28] knew about the shooting. I mean, we can

[12:30] only she wouldn't tell me all the ins

[12:32] and outs of what happened with the FBI,

[12:33] which is understandable, but you can

[12:36] imagine a picture where Lance has just

[12:38] found out that Tyler's done this

[12:40] astonishing,

[12:43] awful act. And of course, like most

[12:46] young people, he's probably contacted

[12:48] his best friends and said, "Oh my god,

[12:50] you know, you won't believe what's

[12:52] happened." And so, it's those

[12:54] conversations, I think, that the FBI

[12:56] have honed in on. And the other thing is

[12:58] these sons of this lady, they were also

[13:02] part of the Discord chat.

[13:04] >> So I know you covered Discord a lot in

[13:06] your reporting and there's this kind of

[13:09] side narrative about the messages in the

[13:13] Discord and did they preempt the

[13:15] shooting? Do they indicate that there

[13:17] was a wider circle of people knew about

[13:19] the shooting? Now I asked her about the

[13:22] discard this lady discord this lady and

[13:24] she said that it was just silly boy

[13:27] stuff

[13:29] nothing un toward her sons told her she

[13:32] asked them outright did you did they say

[13:35] anything political did they discuss

[13:36] anything and she said no

[13:39] >> so as far as she's concerned is the

[13:41] discord was just like a kind of boys

[13:43] will be boys silly chat place

[13:47] um and it goes without There's no

[13:50] evidence that her sons did anything

[13:53] wrong or knew anything. Just as there's

[13:55] no evidence, it's important to stress

[13:57] that we have no evidence in the the

[14:00] charging documents to suggest that Lance

[14:03] knew. So, we've had quite a detailed

[14:05] account from the FBI and it points to

[14:09] Lance

[14:11] not knowing.

[14:12] So, I know some people will will say,

[14:15] "Oh, you know, you guys are gullible. Of

[14:17] course, he knew, etc., etc. But we're

[14:20] dealing in facts here and not theories

[14:22] or not hunches and just the facts are in

[14:28] the charging documents. It does not

[14:30] imply that he knew about the shooting.

[14:32] And I know that our sources at the FBI

[14:35] have reiterated that he's a cooperating

[14:38] source or a witness and not a suspect.

[14:42] >> Yeah. Same here. the people that we've

[14:43] talked to have have sort of gone out of

[14:45] their way to make clear that he is a

[14:49] cooperating witness. Did did she say

[14:52] anything about Tyler Robinson? Like did

[14:54] her sons have any

[14:58] interesting to say about him?

[15:01] >> So he didn't go to the same school and I

[15:04] think they knew didn't know him as well

[15:07] as Lance and she's never met him. So,

[15:10] for example, as part of our reporting,

[15:12] we got a a cache of photos that hadn't

[15:16] been published before, and he wasn't in

[15:18] any of the pictures. And

[15:22] she's not spoken to him, but her sons

[15:24] are friends with Tyler.

[15:28] And she just reiterated really similar

[15:31] sentiments that she voiced about Lance

[15:33] that her sons would never have expected

[15:37] him to do something like this, would

[15:39] never have expected him to do anything

[15:43] as virulently ideological as this. Um,

[15:48] and were completely stunned.

[15:51] She's described the whole thing as

[15:55] just an unbelievable shock to all of

[15:57] them, which is as you might expect. But

[16:01] she said that her one thing she said

[16:04] that one of her sons who's friends with

[16:06] both Lance and Tyler.

[16:09] She said he wakes up every day wondering

[16:12] if the world is real. This, you know,

[16:14] feels he's in a nightmare. two of his

[16:16] best friends who he thought he knew are

[16:19] now involved in this like global

[16:23] atrocious news cycle. Um, yeah. So, but

[16:29] she she didn't know Tyler anywhere near

[16:31] to the extent she knew Lance for sure.

[16:34] >> Have her sons had any contact with Lance

[16:38] since recently? So,

[16:41] the contact was while Lance was at his

[16:45] apartment, aware of what happened

[16:48] because Tyler had allegedly confessed,

[16:51] but before the police knocked on the

[16:53] door to speak to him and to then search

[16:55] the apartment.

[16:58] They he was taken into custody and they

[17:01] have not spoken to him since. He's not

[17:03] responded and they don't know where he

[17:05] is. And this lady said that they were

[17:07] all really worried about him. They're

[17:10] worried about, you know, his mental

[17:11] health. They're very protective of him.

[17:13] They think what's going on in the media

[17:15] is is outrageous. They think he's an

[17:18] innocent man. He's not done anything

[17:19] wrong. He's not accused of anything.

[17:21] And, you know, the Daily Mail or News

[17:24] Nation or what have you are are kind of

[17:26] boring into this guy's life and his past

[17:29] and showing this picture. And that's

[17:31] really unfair. And I can understand that

[17:33] but at the same time he is a central

[17:36] antagonist in this drama. I mean there

[17:39] was of course you know this but there

[17:42] was this question in the tax exchange of

[17:46] oh you know those bullets I was carving

[17:48] messages into. I mean

[17:51] >> there are questions to be answered. You

[17:53] know

[17:53] >> what's for dinner darling? Oh sorry I

[17:55] was too busy carving political slogans

[17:57] in bullets. you know,

[17:58] >> yeah,

[17:59] >> we need to look at his answers and and

[18:01] that's why we we were looking for him

[18:03] for so long.

[18:05] >> Um, but I don't think, you know, I I'll

[18:07] have egg on my face if he turns up

[18:09] tomorrow and does a press conference,

[18:11] but my hunch is that he won't be he

[18:14] won't surface for a while. I I think

[18:16] he's in some sort of state protection,

[18:18] but, you know, that's a that's a best

[18:21] guess.

[18:22] >> Well, a lot of people um think the text

[18:25] messages are just strange. you know, the

[18:27] the back and forth, the way that they're

[18:30] speaking to each other. People thought

[18:31] they were fake initially. So, people

[18:33] have been really intrigued with Lance

[18:35] and trying to figure out, you know, who

[18:37] he is. And like you said, it makes

[18:39] sense. He's a central character. What

[18:41] about his parents? Did you make any

[18:43] headway

[18:44] with them? Are they around? Are they

[18:46] inside?

[18:47] >> Absolutely none. So, uh, a different

[18:50] reporter from Daily Mail spoke to the

[18:53] dad and was basically shued away. This

[18:56] is before I got up there. Um,

[18:59] they I knocked on their house multiple

[19:02] times. They have a Ring camera. I

[19:04] presume that they can see me. Um,

[19:08] they have I don't know whether it's a

[19:10] friend or someone who rents a room. They

[19:12] do have people at the house, but none of

[19:15] them would take a message. None of them

[19:18] would would speak to me. So, it's

[19:20] important to to to say, you know, there

[19:23] is this story that's been out there and

[19:25] we've reported some of this that he fell

[19:26] out with his parents because of religion

[19:28] and so forth, but um Lance Twigs has a

[19:33] public Venmo account, so you can see the

[19:36] payments on it, for example,

[19:39] and there's tons of payments from his

[19:41] mom and dad on there. you know, payments

[19:43] for music lessons, I think, gas, food,

[19:48] doctor's appointments. So, even though

[19:50] they had this falling out, they're still

[19:52] paying for parts of his life and

[19:54] supporting him. And it's the family

[19:56] apartment. He's living in his family's

[19:58] apartment.

[20:00] So, they haven't completely ostracized

[20:03] him. They've It seems like they're

[20:06] estranged, but they're still part of his

[20:08] life. They haven't abandoned him

[20:10] financially. And the lady I told you

[20:13] about, Jackie Nielson, you know, she was

[20:16] clear. She said, "I have absolutely

[20:17] nothing bad to say about Lance Twigs's

[20:20] parents. They seem like very nice,

[20:22] polite, you know, um, good people." Um,

[20:29] I think she just said to me, "Look, he

[20:30] was a kid in needs, was friend of my

[20:32] son, so I took him in." But I'm not

[20:35] judging those people and I don't know

[20:36] about what happened in those four walls

[20:39] or exactly why they fell out. But that

[20:41] that's she said it was that they were

[20:43] quite strict about their Mormon religion

[20:46] and he didn't want a part of that.

[20:49] >> So it sound and you said this I think

[20:51] but so Tyler Robinson moved in with

[20:53] Lance. It was Lance apartment.

[20:57] >> He moved in. There was another uh guy in

[21:00] there. We don't know who that is. So,

[21:03] you know, that's a that's a kind of um

[21:08] an area of our reporting where we

[21:10] haven't been able to fill in quite an

[21:12] interesting blank, but we don't know

[21:14] currently who that third person is. But

[21:16] in any event, the third person moved

[21:18] out, leaving the two of them there. So,

[21:20] it's I believe it's a three-bedroom

[21:22] townhouse on like two levels, and it

[21:26] ended up just Lance and Tyler living

[21:29] there alone.

[21:30] >> What about Tyler's parents? Were they do

[21:33] the first person do they all live close

[21:34] together?

[21:35] >> They all live um like 5 10 minutes

[21:39] apart.

[21:40] >> And any What about at Tyler's parents

[21:42] house? Cuz we we had a reporter there

[21:44] right after it happened and you know the

[21:46] road was closed and I mean what is it

[21:48] like now?

[21:50] >> It's as if they've gone on an extended

[21:52] vacation. There's no lights on. Um,

[21:58] I mean there's like a lawn mower just

[22:01] out on the side of the house.

[22:04] Um, I'm trying to think. I think I think

[22:07] there was actually some Amazon parcels

[22:09] at their house. Uh, it's it's funny, you

[22:13] know, as a reporter, you sort of in days

[22:15] gone by, you wondered whether people are

[22:16] in or not. These days, you can tell by

[22:18] whether they've got Amazon parcels. You

[22:20] know, if there's three Amazon parcels,

[22:22] it means they're probably not there. Um,

[22:24] but there was no sign of life at that

[22:27] house. Again, I think they had a Ring

[22:28] camera, so, you know, knocked it a few

[22:30] times. Yeah, they're probably watching

[22:33] me standing around looking silly on the

[22:35] doorstep, determined not to say

[22:37] anything, but they haven't. They've

[22:39] spoken to federal investigators, of

[22:41] course, and we've heard the mother's

[22:43] thoughts about things in the charging

[22:45] document about her son became

[22:47] radicalized,

[22:49] but we haven't heard from them in

[22:52] person, the mom or the dad.

[22:54] >> I'm curious what your perception was of

[22:56] the people in the town cuz when I was in

[22:59] in where the college was, you know, it's

[23:02] obviously like very Mormon. Pretty much

[23:04] everyone I met was Mormon. And they like

[23:07] other shootings that I've covered, you

[23:09] know, people will turn on the parents

[23:10] very quickly or immediately want to

[23:12] start blaming the parents or, oh, how

[23:14] did he get the gun? Or, you know, they

[23:15] they go after the parents. And it was

[23:17] quite the opposite, I felt like, with

[23:19] everyone I was talking to, they felt bad

[23:22] for the parents. They were kind of

[23:23] defensive of the parents. They felt

[23:25] terrible for the family. Um, was it is

[23:28] it the vibe like that in in in St.

[23:30] George also?

[23:35] I didn't really hear any criticism of

[23:38] the parents.

[23:40] Um I think St. George

[23:44] um it seems like there's a really strong

[23:48] sense of community there and maybe

[23:49] that's because you know so many Mormons

[23:52] there. It's very safe. It's very um

[23:56] quite middle class, quite quite

[23:58] affluent. It just seems a really idyllic

[24:01] place. I know like everyone's when

[24:03] something bad happens, everyone says,

[24:05] "Oh, I can't imagine something like this

[24:07] could happen in a place like our town."

[24:10] That's a very common sentiment, but you

[24:12] look around St. George and it just seems

[24:14] like so clean, so safe, such a nice

[24:18] place. It's set in the the desert.

[24:20] There's all these mountains around it.

[24:22] It really does look like a really great

[24:24] place to grow up. There's great

[24:26] facilities.

[24:27] Um, so I would imagine my feeling is

[24:32] that people in St. George are just

[24:34] baffled. They're wondering

[24:36] why would these boys go off the rails so

[24:39] much. And there's nothing about the two

[24:42] sets of parents that suggest they're bad

[24:44] parents or they, you know, neglected

[24:48] their son's wellbeing. As I said, the

[24:51] the Tweaks family continue to support

[24:54] Lance and that's remember there's no

[24:57] suggestion he's even done anything

[24:59] wrong. Um, so I think people in that

[25:02] town are probably just baffled by it

[25:05] because it it's such a wholesome place.

[25:07] Something has gone really really badly

[25:10] wrong. And I think that's the sentiment.

[25:13] I don't think they're p pointing fingers

[25:16] at anyone. I think they're just like all

[25:17] of us. They want to know how a

[25:19] welladjusted, polite,

[25:21] decent, seemingly decent kid could take

[25:25] it upon himself to do something

[25:28] unimaginable that has, you know,

[25:30] probably changed the course of history.

[25:33] >> All right, Ben. Well, thank you for for

[25:35] coming on uh my channel again. I

[25:38] appreciate it. And pleasure.

[25:39] >> Maybe we'll both end up in Utah

[25:42] together.

[25:44] >> Yeah, that never happens. I think we've

[25:46] we've we've met up on like one or two

[25:48] jobs in the last two years or something

[25:50] where you go to one job, I go to a

[25:52] different one because you seem to be the

[25:56] main man at News Nation. They send you

[25:58] to pretty much everything big. Whereas

[26:00] Daily Mail, there's I'm like more of a

[26:02] staff. So, I've got six or seven

[26:04] colleagues who do this. So, they'll I

[26:06] don't get out to the West Coast all that

[26:07] much. So, that's why it was it was so

[26:10] nice to go to Utah like such a a great

[26:13] place.

[26:13] >> Yeah. got all your pictures like it's

[26:15] that area is so pretty and

[26:16] >> it is. Yeah. I mean it's like to do it

[26:19] under more pleasant circumstances.

[26:21] >> Um but we could say that about you know

[26:24] most of our adventures, couldn't we in

[26:26] this job?

[26:27] >> And Ben and I, just so everybody knows,

[26:29] actually became friends on the Gabby

[26:31] Patito story.

[26:33] >> That's right. Yeah.

[26:34] >> We Everybody knows that I like was

[26:36] camped outside theies and rented the

[26:38] little lawn spot, but so did Ben.

[26:41] >> It was me and Ben, actually. It was me

[26:42] and Ben. Ben,

[26:44] >> I think we jointly paid the rent to the

[26:47] >> Yeah. So,

[26:49] >> yeah,

[26:49] >> pals ever since. All right. Thank you,

[26:50] Ben.

[26:51] >> Cool. Speak to you again. Cheers, Brian.

Hey guys, thanks so much for checking out my channel. I really appreciate it. I'm on the move again. I'm in the airport super early right now if I look a little tired. Uh but in this episode, I'm really digging into the latest on the Charlie Kirk assassination. Specifically, who uh the alleged assassin, um Tyler Robinson's romantic partner and roommate is. His name is Lance Twigs. Uh there's been very very little information about him, but I've got a ton of new info in this uh episode. Questions about where he is now. He basically vanished from his townhouse where he was living with the alleged assassin. Where could he be now? Uh and and new things that that we've learned about him from from friends, from people who actually knew him very well and also knew Tyler uh very very well. getting into all of that and the latest on the assassination. I know, you know, there's been a lot of other news. Um, some people have moved on. I'm trying to to stick with it uh and make sure to keep digging. I'm going to get into it in this edition. A Brian Anton investigates. All right. So, my buddy, uh, Ben Ashford joins me now. Ben works at the Daily Mail. You may have seen him in a couple of my other episodes. Um, he's a an awesome journalist, uh, but also my friend. Uh, and I was in Utah for quite a while after Charlie Kirk's assassination. And then I left and then Ben, it just so happens, went to St. George, Utah, which is where um Tyler Robinson was living with his um roommate slash I forget what what they've been calling him. His what like lover basically. >> Partner, lover, boyfriend. >> Yeah. And uh that's also where Tyler Robinson's parents live. And Ben was there. Were you there for like a week? >> Uh, I was there for like four or five days. >> Four or five days. So, um, first of all, I never went to St. George. I just stayed near Salt Lake near where the shooting happened. Um, what what is Well, first of all, everybody want Let me just start with everybody wants to know where um where the roommate lover is. His name is Lance Twigs. Do we do we have any idea? Uh, no we don't. But we we have some hints. So he lived in this um uh three bed townhouse with Tyler Robinson. And we know that in the immediate aftermath of Robinson turning himself into police, um the law enforcement went round to that property and they led him out and they took him away for questioning and he has not been back there. And it looks like nobody's been back there cuz to describe what it looks like, uh there's lights on upstairs 24/7. There's journalist cards wedged in the door. There's Amazon parcels. Um, his cars parked in his designated space. He's got his, um, he's a part-time plumber. His plumbing gear, like some of his equipment's on the back seat. There's a sandwich wrapper. Um, an empty drink, half half finishedish drink on the front seat. So, whoever, if you look at that scene, it just looks like he left in a hurry and he didn't come back. You know, he's not even turned the lights on uh off. Um but we have had some hints. The the the sheriff for Washington County um said in in an interview that he's in a safe space very far from St. George, which tallies with I mean, we've been asking our sources at the FBI, you know, is he in protective custody of of some variety because it would be such an obvious step because he's excuse me, he's a a very central significant witness in our politically charged crime. Um, and they've got to make sure he's okay. And there's really strong feeling on all sides of this thing. So he would meet the criteria for uh federal protective custody and our sources have not confirmed that certainly not on the record. Um but they they've hinted that something like that is in play and that would tell you with the fact that no one has seen him. No one's been back to that townhouse. >> Yeah. Yeah. You're talking about like basically witness protection program possible. >> Exactly. Yeah. Mhm. >> He never returned to get clothes or anything from what you could tell. >> I I mean I don't know that but if he went back he didn't turn the lights off. He didn't uh if he's gone back stage he hasn't picked up his Amazon parcels and he hasn't got his he's got a rucks sack on the back seat of his car. So, if he's gone back to the property, he might have gone briefly, I guess, but none of the neighbors have seen him and he's not driving his own vehicle as as far as I know. You know, I can only make observations based on what I can see and I haven't been there like 24/7, but the neighbors are saying that no one has been back at that property since he was taken away. >> What did you say was on his back seat? A rucks sack. What was that? >> There's a there's like a black uh backpack. Oh, did you say napsack? >> We call it a rug sack. >> A rug. A rug sack. Like our >> We'd say a rucks sack, but it's I think you call it a backpack. >> Yeah. I was like, >> you know, it's like one of these ones we have for work with all our gear in it, our laptop and bits and bobs. >> Um, and he's got one of those on the back and he's got it looks like a sandal or something. I couldn't really tell, but he's got some equipment consistent with sort of DIY or being a handyman. And we were told that he did some plumbing. So that looks to me like maybe that's some of his work stuff on the back seat. So he hasn't taken that and you know half eaten food on the front seat. It just looks like someone's gone in a hurry and they haven't come back. >> So what have you what were you able to I know when you were there you were able to interview people who knew him. >> Yeah. >> First of all, who who are they and like what what did what did they you find out? Well, the most um useful thing uh useful conversation I had with with a lady called um Jackie Nielsen. Her children, she's actually a mom of six. And some of the children, in fact, I think all of the children went to high school with Lance. And not only were they good friends and Lance would come over and hang out, she actually took him in for a period when he fell out with his parents. So he was actually under her roof. Um, and she spoke very highly of him. She said he was quiet, but you know, had a had a a small loyal um circle of friends and she would open up with those friends. He was like bubbly, smart, very intelligent. We're talking like a straight A student at high school level. And she considered him a really good influence. She said that if Lance was going out with her sons, she actually felt um they, you know, things would be safer, more adult, they get home on time, they come home sober because she thought he was a very positive influence on her family. So, he spent some time with her and but then he moved into the apartment we were just talking about. So I think he's been there for 3 years or thereabouts. And Tyler Robinson came as a housemate or roommate, sorry, roommate. And at some point it said that they, you know, became romantically involved and they were in a relationship when the Charlie Kirk assassination unfolded. >> Did she say anything about him being trans, transitioning from male to female? Uh she said that among his circle of friends it was just accepted that he was gay. Um that wasn't a big issue. You know St. George is quite a conservative place. It's about sort of 2/3 Mormon. His parents were apparently quite strict. Um and that's what they fell out over allegedly. You know he just said he didn't want to go to church anymore. There's been some reporting that he took drugs, so he had a bad attitude, or he spoke badly about Christians or conservatives. She didn't say any of that to me. She said that um he, you know, he wasn't really overtly rebellious. He didn't voice political opinions. He didn't push his opinions on other people. She said that as an adult she knew that he had had some problems and those mental health problems. She said that he had allegedly uh taken pot mushrooms. But she said that through through all that and she described him as a kid in turmoil, not a bad person, a kid in turmoil who was struggling to sort of get over this bust with his family and some some typical like late teen, early 20s issues, but you know, she was consistently saying that he was still a a kind, friendly, um, you know, welladjusted boy. So, she didn't see this angry, hateful side. And sorry, get back to the trans thing. She said that she had heard recently that he was transitioning. She had not had a discussion with him about it. Um, when she last saw him, he'd thrown his hair out, but very little else. He he he didn't have any overt signs that he was really doing anything. Um, and there hasn't been no one officially has said that he was trans as as far as I know. I think it's been said that he had an interesting ideology of that sort and and and so forth. But the charging documents all call him a he. They all refer to him as a male. Hence, you know, that's what we're doing. But she said that he she had heard he was transitioning. Um but in her eyes it had just amounted to you know growing his hair longer. >> Yeah, you're right. The charging documents say he but the governor I think it was the governor who first said that he is transitioning from >> Yeah, for sure >> to never really knew the extent of that like what that really I don't know meant. >> Well, her sons are such good friends with him that they've been interviewed by the FBI. >> Oh wow. They've spent time with him recently. They know Tyler and she says he was transitioning. So I think on >> I think on the transitioning side, I think we can accept that that's pretty much been borne out in the reporting. >> In terms of the FBI, I think it was two of her sons have been interviewed by the FBI. Now, it's important to get the order of this right. So, if you you know from your own reporting, what happened was after the shooting, Tyler had had a text message exchange with Lance basically saying, "I did it and allegedly confessing." And after that conversation, but before Lance was questioned by the police, he had a conversation with this lady's two sons, I believe, via text message. So, at that point, when Lance reached out to his two mates, he knew what Tyler had done. He hadn't turned him in, and he hadn't been questioned. So, this was that window where Lance knew about the shooting. I mean, we can only she wouldn't tell me all the ins and outs of what happened with the FBI, which is understandable, but you can imagine a picture where Lance has just found out that Tyler's done this astonishing, awful act. And of course, like most young people, he's probably contacted his best friends and said, "Oh my god, you know, you won't believe what's happened." And so, it's those conversations, I think, that the FBI have honed in on. And the other thing is these sons of this lady, they were also part of the Discord chat. >> So I know you covered Discord a lot in your reporting and there's this kind of side narrative about the messages in the Discord and did they preempt the shooting? Do they indicate that there was a wider circle of people knew about the shooting? Now I asked her about the discard this lady discord this lady and she said that it was just silly boy stuff nothing un toward her sons told her she asked them outright did you did they say anything political did they discuss anything and she said no >> so as far as she's concerned is the discord was just like a kind of boys will be boys silly chat place um and it goes without There's no evidence that her sons did anything wrong or knew anything. Just as there's no evidence, it's important to stress that we have no evidence in the the charging documents to suggest that Lance knew. So, we've had quite a detailed account from the FBI and it points to Lance not knowing. So, I know some people will will say, "Oh, you know, you guys are gullible. Of course, he knew, etc., etc. But we're dealing in facts here and not theories or not hunches and just the facts are in the charging documents. It does not imply that he knew about the shooting. And I know that our sources at the FBI have reiterated that he's a cooperating source or a witness and not a suspect. >> Yeah. Same here. the people that we've talked to have have sort of gone out of their way to make clear that he is a cooperating witness. Did did she say anything about Tyler Robinson? Like did her sons have any interesting to say about him? >> So he didn't go to the same school and I think they knew didn't know him as well as Lance and she's never met him. So, for example, as part of our reporting, we got a a cache of photos that hadn't been published before, and he wasn't in any of the pictures. And she's not spoken to him, but her sons are friends with Tyler. And she just reiterated really similar sentiments that she voiced about Lance that her sons would never have expected him to do something like this, would never have expected him to do anything as virulently ideological as this. Um, and were completely stunned. She's described the whole thing as just an unbelievable shock to all of them, which is as you might expect. But she said that her one thing she said that one of her sons who's friends with both Lance and Tyler. She said he wakes up every day wondering if the world is real. This, you know, feels he's in a nightmare. two of his best friends who he thought he knew are now involved in this like global atrocious news cycle. Um, yeah. So, but she she didn't know Tyler anywhere near to the extent she knew Lance for sure. >> Have her sons had any contact with Lance since recently? So, the contact was while Lance was at his apartment, aware of what happened because Tyler had allegedly confessed, but before the police knocked on the door to speak to him and to then search the apartment. They he was taken into custody and they have not spoken to him since. He's not responded and they don't know where he is. And this lady said that they were all really worried about him. They're worried about, you know, his mental health. They're very protective of him. They think what's going on in the media is is outrageous. They think he's an innocent man. He's not done anything wrong. He's not accused of anything. And, you know, the Daily Mail or News Nation or what have you are are kind of boring into this guy's life and his past and showing this picture. And that's really unfair. And I can understand that but at the same time he is a central antagonist in this drama. I mean there was of course you know this but there was this question in the tax exchange of oh you know those bullets I was carving messages into. I mean >> there are questions to be answered. You know >> what's for dinner darling? Oh sorry I was too busy carving political slogans in bullets. you know, >> yeah, >> we need to look at his answers and and that's why we we were looking for him for so long. >> Um, but I don't think, you know, I I'll have egg on my face if he turns up tomorrow and does a press conference, but my hunch is that he won't be he won't surface for a while. I I think he's in some sort of state protection, but, you know, that's a that's a best guess. >> Well, a lot of people um think the text messages are just strange. you know, the the back and forth, the way that they're speaking to each other. People thought they were fake initially. So, people have been really intrigued with Lance and trying to figure out, you know, who he is. And like you said, it makes sense. He's a central character. What about his parents? Did you make any headway with them? Are they around? Are they inside? >> Absolutely none. So, uh, a different reporter from Daily Mail spoke to the dad and was basically shued away. This is before I got up there. Um, they I knocked on their house multiple times. They have a Ring camera. I presume that they can see me. Um, they have I don't know whether it's a friend or someone who rents a room. They do have people at the house, but none of them would take a message. None of them would would speak to me. So, it's important to to to say, you know, there is this story that's been out there and we've reported some of this that he fell out with his parents because of religion and so forth, but um Lance Twigs has a public Venmo account, so you can see the payments on it, for example, and there's tons of payments from his mom and dad on there. you know, payments for music lessons, I think, gas, food, doctor's appointments. So, even though they had this falling out, they're still paying for parts of his life and supporting him. And it's the family apartment. He's living in his family's apartment. So, they haven't completely ostracized him. They've It seems like they're estranged, but they're still part of his life. They haven't abandoned him financially. And the lady I told you about, Jackie Nielson, you know, she was clear. She said, "I have absolutely nothing bad to say about Lance Twigs's parents. They seem like very nice, polite, you know, um, good people." Um, I think she just said to me, "Look, he was a kid in needs, was friend of my son, so I took him in." But I'm not judging those people and I don't know about what happened in those four walls or exactly why they fell out. But that that's she said it was that they were quite strict about their Mormon religion and he didn't want a part of that. >> So it sound and you said this I think but so Tyler Robinson moved in with Lance. It was Lance apartment. >> He moved in. There was another uh guy in there. We don't know who that is. So, you know, that's a that's a kind of um an area of our reporting where we haven't been able to fill in quite an interesting blank, but we don't know currently who that third person is. But in any event, the third person moved out, leaving the two of them there. So, it's I believe it's a three-bedroom townhouse on like two levels, and it ended up just Lance and Tyler living there alone. >> What about Tyler's parents? Were they do the first person do they all live close together? >> They all live um like 5 10 minutes apart. >> And any What about at Tyler's parents house? Cuz we we had a reporter there right after it happened and you know the road was closed and I mean what is it like now? >> It's as if they've gone on an extended vacation. There's no lights on. Um, I mean there's like a lawn mower just out on the side of the house. Um, I'm trying to think. I think I think there was actually some Amazon parcels at their house. Uh, it's it's funny, you know, as a reporter, you sort of in days gone by, you wondered whether people are in or not. These days, you can tell by whether they've got Amazon parcels. You know, if there's three Amazon parcels, it means they're probably not there. Um, but there was no sign of life at that house. Again, I think they had a Ring camera, so, you know, knocked it a few times. Yeah, they're probably watching me standing around looking silly on the doorstep, determined not to say anything, but they haven't. They've spoken to federal investigators, of course, and we've heard the mother's thoughts about things in the charging document about her son became radicalized, but we haven't heard from them in person, the mom or the dad. >> I'm curious what your perception was of the people in the town cuz when I was in in where the college was, you know, it's obviously like very Mormon. Pretty much everyone I met was Mormon. And they like other shootings that I've covered, you know, people will turn on the parents very quickly or immediately want to start blaming the parents or, oh, how did he get the gun? Or, you know, they they go after the parents. And it was quite the opposite, I felt like, with everyone I was talking to, they felt bad for the parents. They were kind of defensive of the parents. They felt terrible for the family. Um, was it is it the vibe like that in in in St. George also? I didn't really hear any criticism of the parents. Um I think St. George um it seems like there's a really strong sense of community there and maybe that's because you know so many Mormons there. It's very safe. It's very um quite middle class, quite quite affluent. It just seems a really idyllic place. I know like everyone's when something bad happens, everyone says, "Oh, I can't imagine something like this could happen in a place like our town." That's a very common sentiment, but you look around St. George and it just seems like so clean, so safe, such a nice place. It's set in the the desert. There's all these mountains around it. It really does look like a really great place to grow up. There's great facilities. Um, so I would imagine my feeling is that people in St. George are just baffled. They're wondering why would these boys go off the rails so much. And there's nothing about the two sets of parents that suggest they're bad parents or they, you know, neglected their son's wellbeing. As I said, the the Tweaks family continue to support Lance and that's remember there's no suggestion he's even done anything wrong. Um, so I think people in that town are probably just baffled by it because it it's such a wholesome place. Something has gone really really badly wrong. And I think that's the sentiment. I don't think they're p pointing fingers at anyone. I think they're just like all of us. They want to know how a welladjusted, polite, decent, seemingly decent kid could take it upon himself to do something unimaginable that has, you know, probably changed the course of history. >> All right, Ben. Well, thank you for for coming on uh my channel again. I appreciate it. And pleasure. >> Maybe we'll both end up in Utah together. >> Yeah, that never happens. I think we've we've we've met up on like one or two jobs in the last two years or something where you go to one job, I go to a different one because you seem to be the main man at News Nation. They send you to pretty much everything big. Whereas Daily Mail, there's I'm like more of a staff. So, I've got six or seven colleagues who do this. So, they'll I don't get out to the West Coast all that much. So, that's why it was it was so nice to go to Utah like such a a great place. >> Yeah. got all your pictures like it's that area is so pretty and >> it is. Yeah. I mean it's like to do it under more pleasant circumstances. >> Um but we could say that about you know most of our adventures, couldn't we in this job? >> And Ben and I, just so everybody knows, actually became friends on the Gabby Patito story. >> That's right. Yeah. >> We Everybody knows that I like was camped outside theies and rented the little lawn spot, but so did Ben. >> It was me and Ben, actually. It was me and Ben. Ben, >> I think we jointly paid the rent to the >> Yeah. So, >> yeah, >> pals ever since. All right. Thank you, Ben. >> Cool. Speak to you again. Cheers, Brian.