Debate over clothes in Tyler Robinson murder case continues

[00:00] So there was an interesting article or

[00:01] interesting motion I should say filed by

[00:04] Tyler Robinson's attorneys and one of

[00:06] the it started with this Holly. They

[00:08] filed a motion about two weeks ago

[00:11] asking that their client this is the

[00:13] this is the person who was accused of

[00:14] shooting Charlie Kirk and killing

[00:16] Charlie Kirk at UVU in September.

[00:18] >> They filed a motion that he be allowed

[00:19] to appear in court under two

[00:21] circumstances. One that he'd be allowed

[00:23] to wear street clothes because right now

[00:25] he's wearing jail clothes. Right. So

[00:26] when he comes out to the courtroom and

[00:28] he sits in the courtroom, he they want

[00:30] him to be wearing regular street

[00:32] clothes. And second, they don't want him

[00:34] shackled when he goes. So he can walk

[00:35] out of the holding cell, walk over to

[00:38] council table, sit down and just like

[00:40] everyone else. And and and that of

[00:42] course is done because of the perception

[00:45] >> that people have when they see somebody

[00:47] in jail clothes or with handcuffs. They

[00:49] think, well, they must have done

[00:50] something. I would say this, typically

[00:53] we don't allow that for preliminary

[00:55] matters, right?

[00:56] >> Typically, we save those two conditions

[00:59] for in the presence of the jury. And

[01:01] we're a long way from a jury trial. This

[01:03] we're probably two years away from a

[01:05] jury trial.

[01:06] >> But you want the jury to see the person

[01:08] just as you and I are presented today.

[01:10] You know, street clothes, no shackles,

[01:12] nothing like that because it takes sort

[01:14] of hurts the whole presumption of

[01:15] innocence thing if you're if you're

[01:16] dressed like that. So, they filed that

[01:18] motion and the judge preliminarily

[01:20] granted it, but then the state came in

[01:22] and filed a response and the defense is

[01:25] now saying, "Hey, wait a minute. This

[01:27] our case is against the state, not the

[01:29] sheriff's office." They they've sort of

[01:31] attacked the pleading of the state

[01:33] blaming saying, "Hey, our beef is with

[01:35] the state, not the sheriff's office."

[01:37] >> So, so explain that to me because it's

[01:39] not clear to me what what they're

[01:41] arguing actually.

[01:43] >> Yeah. So, what happens is this. What

[01:44] happened is this, and the pleading has

[01:46] been sealed, so I'm guessing because

[01:48] I've tried to look it up, but I can't

[01:49] find it.

[01:50] >> There was a response filed to the

[01:52] defense motion that he appear in in

[01:54] street clothes and out without shackles.

[01:57] And in part of that response was

[01:58] something from the sheriff's office

[02:00] saying, "Hey, this is a public safety

[02:02] issue. Don't make us go through this. We

[02:04] we don't think it's safe for us to have

[02:06] to do that." And the and the defense

[02:09] attorneys are saying,

[02:10] >> "You don't even have the right answer,

[02:13] right? you don't have a dog in this

[02:14] fight. We want to hear from the county

[02:15] attorney's office. And let me say this,

[02:17] we deal with this issue all the time.

[02:20] And and so let's say I have a client in

[02:22] jail and I'm in front of a judge and I

[02:23] say, you know, my client feels like

[02:25] they're not safe.

[02:27] >> The judge is the prosecuting attorney

[02:29] can't order the sheriff to move them to

[02:31] a different cell. Sure.

[02:32] >> Or let's say your client's got, you

[02:33] know, needs a root canal. He's

[02:35] suffering. The prosecuting attorney

[02:36] can't order that he see a dentist. So

[02:38] the jail does have tremendous authority

[02:42] and leeway in the handling of prisoners

[02:44] in the state of Utah because that's

[02:47] that's what they do,

[02:48] >> right?

[02:48] >> If you consider good time, if you

[02:50] consider work release, if you consider

[02:51] ankle monitor, all those things, a judge

[02:53] can say go to jail for 90 days and the

[02:55] sheriff can say, "I'll let you out

[02:57] tomorrow with an ankle monitor." You

[02:58] know what I mean? Yeah. Or or medical

[03:01] care, like I tal about, things like

[03:02] that. If you're in an unsafe environment

[03:04] or you need mental health treatment,

[03:05] those are decided by the jail. So, it

[03:08] doesn't surprise me that the state did

[03:10] file something from the sheriff's office

[03:12] saying, "We think there's a public

[03:14] safety issue, right?" I'm a little

[03:16] surprised that the defense is now

[03:17] saying, "Hey, sheriff, you don't have

[03:19] any say in this." But I think the

[03:20] sheriff has a lot of say in how how

[03:22] things are handled, especially when it

[03:24] deals with public safety.

[03:25] >> So, so if they're saying, "You shouldn't

[03:28] have responded. We want the judge to

[03:30] throw out this response." Can now the

[03:34] county attorney's office respond and say

[03:36] the same thing? Then they'll have to and

[03:37] they'll Yeah. and do the exact same

[03:38] thing. And so the judge, I think, is

[03:40] scheduling some sort of a, you know, in

[03:43] camera, which means in private hearing,

[03:45] he'll he'll have a hearing where the

[03:46] public doesn't appear and and is not

[03:49] familiar with what's going on. And maybe

[03:50] someone from the sheriff's office, maybe

[03:52] the sheriff will come in and say, "Hey,

[03:54] don't make us do this." I mean, it's

[03:56] going to put sheriff's deputies at risk.

[03:58] It's going to put others at risk. It'll

[04:00] put Tyler Robinson at risk. Let's face

[04:02] it, because in Utah County, unlike most

[04:05] counties, the jail and the court are not

[04:08] even in the same city. Yeah. I mean, you

[04:10] go to Davis County and there's a walkway

[04:11] between the the jail and the court. And

[04:13] most every other county, Salt Lake and

[04:15] Utah are different because they have

[04:17] jails, you know, in Salt Lake, it's in

[04:18] South Salt Lake, and in in in fourth

[04:21] district, it's in Spanish Fork where the

[04:23] courthouse is in in Provo. There is one

[04:25] in Spanish Fork, but he'll be he'll be

[04:26] at the one in Provo. So, they've got to

[04:28] get him out of the jail. They've got to

[04:30] put him on a bus. They've got to drive

[04:32] him from the jail to the courthouse on a

[04:35] day when everybody knows he's got court,

[04:37] right? Anybody that wants to and and

[04:39] it's not like they're going to be

[04:40] driving an undercover Prius. I mean,

[04:42] they've got the the [laughter]

[04:43] Utah County Sheriff's Office van, right?

[04:45] I've seen I've seen them. Yeah.

[04:47] >> Right. So, I mean, I I think that the

[04:50] sheriff has every reason to feel like,

[04:53] whoa, this is going to be very

[04:54] uncomfortable for us. Maybe they move

[04:56] him two or three hours before court and

[04:58] just hold him in those little holding

[05:00] cells, which are awful, by the way. Not

[05:02] some place you want to hang out very

[05:03] long.

[05:04] >> It's Yeah, it's interesting. So, I'm

[05:06] seeing that uh that the judge said he

[05:09] could show up for the October 30th

[05:11] hearing, which is next week, as you've

[05:13] pointed out, in street clothes, but

[05:15] there's going to be another hearing to

[05:17] talk about whether that can be a thing

[05:19] ongoing. And so I was curious because I

[05:22] saw a news article saying that that

[05:24] hearing to talk about his clothing was

[05:26] going to be closed. But I think you

[05:28] helped me understand that it's probably

[05:30] because they have to talk about security

[05:32] measures,

[05:32] >> right? And you don't want the world to

[05:34] know about that if the security

[05:36] >> this is what the courtroom has in place.

[05:38] >> Yeah. This Yeah. This is what we're

[05:39] going to do to make sure he's secure.

[05:41] We're going to drive this specific car.

[05:42] We're going to leave this specific time.

[05:44] We're going to bring him down this sally

[05:45] port on this end of the courthouse. No,

[05:47] no, no. We want to do all that and as

[05:49] much silence as possible. The the other

[05:52] issue is his his coming out in in

[05:55] shackles. I mean, I don't know. So, he

[05:59] walks out of the in in the courtroom,

[06:00] there's a little holding cell to the

[06:02] side of the court. They walk out,

[06:03] they're in the courtroom itself, and

[06:05] they walk out to council table, which is

[06:07] in front of the judge,

[06:08] >> and we have them walk out in shackles

[06:11] all the time. You see them there in

[06:12] their jail clothes and their cuffs. They

[06:14] want him to just to walk out, right,

[06:15] >> like anybody else, right? I mean that

[06:19] that poses I mean there's a risk of

[06:21] flight but I don't know that he's going

[06:22] to run because I'm sure there's going to

[06:24] be a wall of baiffs right behind behind

[06:27] his defense table to make sure he

[06:28] doesn't go anywhere. And and I don't

[06:31] know that it what I guess another

[06:33] problem could be people from the

[06:34] audience being able to get to him.

[06:36] Right.

[06:36] >> But the same wall applies there.

[06:39] >> I I don't know that he's a threat to

[06:41] himself or anything else if he's not

[06:42] cuffed. And um I there's no way

[06:46] somebody's going to get into that

[06:47] courtroom with a gun or in some able

[06:50] some way able to hurt him. I don't know

[06:51] the cuffs would make a difference with

[06:52] that. But the the whole idea of shackles

[06:55] is a bigger problem for the sheriff, I

[06:57] think, than the than the street clothes.

[06:58] I mean, you got to dress him out, which

[07:00] is a hassle. Uh but, you know, having

[07:02] him not in shackles is one thing that

[07:04] makes the law law enforcement really

[07:06] nervous just to have him walking around

[07:09] like anybody else. I mean, what if he

[07:11] strikes someone or what if he runs

[07:13] somebody attacks

[07:14] >> him? There have been cases, right, where

[07:16] people have done that. So, there was a

[07:18] shooting in a court in Utah, right? Uh I

[07:21] think a baiff was shot maybe by somebody

[07:23] who was

[07:24] >> there was a federal court hearing where

[07:25] a guy jumped out of the table and tried

[07:27] to stab the witness who was testifying

[07:29] against him. I mean, things like that

[07:30] can happen. Often in when you're in

[07:33] front of the jury, they'll they'll put

[07:35] like a curtain a drape on front of the

[07:38] count of the defense table in front of

[07:40] all the tables so it looks the same. Uh

[07:42] a sheet if you will.

[07:44] >> So they're shackled but you

[07:45] >> So they're shackled but and they're

[07:46] shackled at their ankles so you can't

[07:48] see it. Their hands are on the table.

[07:49] They're writing down. They're talking to

[07:50] their attorney. They're wearing a nice

[07:52] shirt and tie but they're not going

[07:53] anywhere because they're shackled

[07:55] sometimes cuffed to the table itself.

[07:57] >> Right. We don't have a whole lot of

[07:59] time, but is there any

[08:02] speculation about Tyler Robinson being

[08:05] at risk from somebody wanting to

[08:07] assassinate him for what he did to

[08:09] Charlie Kirk? Allegedly,

[08:10] >> but there's every indication of that.

[08:12] And I that's another reason why I think

[08:13] the Utah County Sheriff's Office is on

[08:15] high alert. He's probably in protective

[08:18] custody. He's probably alone. He's

[08:20] probably not with other inmates and and

[08:22] in a place where he could be hurt even

[08:24] by I bet he's under 24-hour surveillance

[08:26] too just from the guards and other

[08:28] people. But I mean, he's got to be a a

[08:30] security nightmare for the sheriff. And

[08:32] the defense have arguably made that

[08:35] worse or at least more difficult for the

[08:37] sheriff by saying, "Hey, let him show up

[08:39] in court with street clothes and walk in

[08:41] with his sneakers like everybody else."

[08:42] And the sheriff's like, "Come on, I can

[08:45] only do so much."

[08:46] >> Yeah. Interesting. I know. I've seen

[08:47] online people who have saying just take

[08:50] him out and apply the death penalty

[08:51] right now.

[08:52] >> Yeah. Which obviously we don't do in

[08:53] America. And he's going to get a fair

[08:56] trial. He's got good counsel. They've

[08:57] got good attorneys for the state. And

[08:59] it's going to go forward.