Up Next
Chloe Cole Testifies on Gender Transition Harm She Endured as a Minor Before Lawmakers
5:35
Pete Buttigieg Makes His Case to 25 Undecided Michigan Voters in Tense Jubilee Discussion
56:17
Lindsey Graham Challenges Defense Officials on Iran, China, and Pakistan's Role in Regional Conflicts
5:06
EPA Administrator Lee Zeldin Defends Enforcement Record in Heated Congressional Exchange with Rosa DeLauro Over Climate Policy and Water Infrastructure Funding
A contentious appropriations hearing revealed deep divisions over EPA's direction under the Trump administration. EPA Administrator Lee Zeldin defended the agency's enforcement record, citing increased criminal prosecutions and environmental cleanup compared to the previous administration, while facing sharp criticism over budget cuts to water infrastructure programs and the agency's stance on climate change. The exchange highlighted fundamental disagreements about the EPA's mission, with debates over Supreme Court decisions limiting agency authority and concerns about an 89% proposed cut to state revolving loan funds that communities depend on for critical water system repairs.
Confrontation Over EPA's Scientific Mission and Staff Reductions
During a tense appropriations committee hearing, members of Congress challenged the EPA Administrator over the direction of the agency under the Trump administration. A congressman raised concerns that the EPA has shed 20% of its staff and either eliminated or deeply slashed several programs, including the Office of Research and Development. The congressman expressed worry that the administration does not place enough emphasis on research, particularly biomedical and environmental research.
The discussion quickly turned to climate change, with the congressman noting that EPA's own website states "climate change is real and happening all around us," though he expressed surprise the language hadn't been scrubbed from the site. He pointed to recent documentaries about Antarctic glaciers melting and accused the administration of being "hellbent on ignoring science."
Climate Policy and Supreme Court Precedent
The congressman referenced the Administrator's recent attendance at what he called a "climate deniers conference," where the Administrator reportedly said: "For those who wanted to criticize my appearance here before this group, it really shows the desperation of just how many walls have collapsed of this last line of defense."
The Administrator responded by challenging the congressman's knowledge of recent Supreme Court cases, specifically citing Loper Bright and asking if the congressman was familiar with it. When the congressman said he was not, the Administrator pressed further, asking about the major questions doctrine. The Administrator argued that these Supreme Court decisions limit the EPA's authority to "get creative" beyond what Congress explicitly authorizes in statutes like Section 202 of the Clean Air Act.
The congressman became visibly upset, accusing the Administrator of being defensive and changing positions on environmental protection. The Administrator countered: "I actually read the law. I do my homework." The exchange grew increasingly heated, with both talking over each other until the chairman intervened.
Enforcement Record Defense
When the congressman accused the administration of abandoning EPA's duties and serving as "a sop to polluters," the Administrator responded with detailed statistics comparing the first year of the Trump administration to the last year of the Biden administration:
- Criminal defendants sentenced: 100 compared to 91
- Criminal fines and restitution obtained: $561.9 million compared to $57.7 million
- Criminal forfeitures: $1.1 billion compared to $1.1 million
- Illegal pesticides blocked from entering the US: 1.65 million pounds compared to 0.96 million pounds
- Cleanup of contaminated soil and water: 59.3 million cubic yards compared to 1.99 million cubic yards
- Value of injunctive relief: $6.02 billion (more than previous year)
- More civil enforcement case conclusions
The Administrator challenged the notion that the agency was "letting polluters off the hook," using these statistics to argue that enforcement had actually increased.
Water Infrastructure Funding Cuts
The congressman then shifted to address proposed cuts to the Clean Water and Drinking Water State Revolving Loan Funds. For 40 years, these funds have provided low-interest loans to eligible recipients for water infrastructure projects, with money being paid back into the revolving fund for future loans.
The budget proposes only $35 million total for the two revolving funds, representing an $852 million or 74% cut from the $1.2 billion enacted in 2026. Connecticut specifically would see its funding drop from an estimated $28.2 million in 2026 to only $3.2 million in 2027—an 89% cut.
According to EPA's own assessments, drinking water, wastewater, and stormwater systems need at least $1.3 trillion in improvements over the next 20 years. States use these funds for critical purposes including repairing or upgrading wastewater treatment facilities, well repairs, and emergency actions in the aftermath of natural disasters.
The Earmark Debate
The Administrator defended the cuts by pointing to what he characterized as Congress "raiding" the State Revolving Funds through congressionally directed spending (earmarks). He argued that the SRF would function more effectively as a true revolving fund if Congress wasn't continuously taking money out for specific projects.
"With all due respect to all of the amazing initiatives that you call congressionally directed spending," the Administrator said, explaining that the administration doesn't include such earmarks in its budget proposals. He noted that while individual projects may have merit, taking money out of the SRF for direct grants means "it's no longer revolving. It's no longer a revolving fund when you take money out for set asides and earmarks."
The congressman disputed this characterization, stating that community project funding doesn't raid the state revolving loan funds in the way described. However, the chairman later confirmed the Administrator's point, noting that removing community finance projects from the SRF would indeed leave more money in the account for states, though it would change how the money is directed rather than the total amount.
The chairman added that he still supports community-directed spending because local representatives know their communities better than anyone in Washington, D.C., but acknowledged the tradeoff involved.
Broader Policy Implications
The contentious hearing revealed fundamental disagreements about the EPA's role and priorities. The Administrator repeatedly emphasized that recent Supreme Court decisions require the agency to follow congressional statutes more strictly, without expanding its authority based on broader interpretations of its mission. Critics argued this approach amounts to abandoning the EPA's core duty to protect public health and the environment.
The debate over water infrastructure funding highlighted tensions between local control of spending decisions through congressionally directed projects versus maintaining robust baseline funding for state-administered revolving loan programs. With aging water infrastructure representing a trillion-dollar need nationwide, how federal resources are allocated and administered will have significant consequences for communities across the country.
Video Transcript
Mr. Bur,
>> thank you very much. Uh, Mr. Chairman, I
just want to make one point because I'm
a strong believer in science and
research, but it's my understanding
that, um, under the the Trump
administration, the agency has shed 20%
of its staff, either wiped out or deeply
slashed several programs, including the
Office of Research and Development. I'm
interested in the same way Miss Pingry
is is about I quite frankly,
you know, I thrive on research,
biomedical research or any kind of
research. I I I find it that this is not
an administration that places a lot of
uh eggs in that research basket and that
that they they don't have a problem with
with cutting that back and it would
appear that that 20% cut in staff there.
So it would be interesting to know about
the um the scientists uh etc. and and
what direction they tell us we should be
going in. Uh climate change uh real
happening all around us. Uh that is
that's a quote by the way. Climate
change is real and happening all around
us. That is directly from EPA's website.
Imagine my shock when I learned that it
hasn't been scrubbed from the website.
Although I fully expect to check in
about a week and maybe it will be taken
down. I guess we'll see whether or not
that's the case. I'm shocked because the
science tells us that climate change is
real and accelerating.
Um
and
really the the effects and the impact of
climate change are real. I don't you you
probably did see the report on
Antarctica and the glaciers and melting
and all this was an extraordinary
documentary um over this past weekend.
Um this is an administration that is
hellbent my view on ignoring science.
Just two weeks ago, you reportedly
attended a climate deniers conference.
And in your remarks, you said, quote,
"For those who wanted to criticize my
appearance here before this group, it
really shows the desperation of just how
many walls have collapsed of this last
line of defense." End quote. Uh, in
Connecticut, we have seen increasing
heat waves, extreme precipitation,
devastating floods impacting everything.
farming, school closures, damaging homes
and businesses. Climate change is
harming our health and our environment,
but is also harming Americans uh uh uh
financially. This administration,
however, is running the playbook on
making the problem worse, focusing on
policies that are handouts to the fossil
fuel companies, like reversing the 2009
greenhouse gas endangerment finding,
rolling back fuel emission standards for
motor vehicles, and reducing methane
leak monitoring requirements. The budget
proposal reads like a climate changed
deniers manifesto. When climate change
is flooding our streets, poisoning our
air, driving up health care and disaster
cuts, how can the EPA justify abandoning
that duty to protect Americans to
appease polluters under the false flag
of economic growth?
>> Following the law, section 202 of the
Clean Air Act, where does it say
anything about fighting global climate
change?
>> Loperbrite Supreme Court case. You
familiar with it?
>> No, I maybe others are. I have not. But
let me ask you,
>> but that's really important. As a member
of Congress, Loper Bright says that we
as as an agency don't have the authority
to get creative if section 202 of the
Clean Air Act
>> No, no, but you don't have Excuse me.
You do not have the right to say climate
change does not exist, that it's a hoax,
and that's where this administration is.
>> I understand you're upset that you don't
know what Loperbrite is. Do you know
what the major policies do?
>> I'm upset. I'm upset because
>> you know what the major policies
doctrine is. Let me just
>> You're a member of Congress. You should
know. Well, you're you're you have moved
from someone who defended the
environment to all of a sudden
>> you're very defensive about not knowing
the two biggest landmark Supreme Court
cases of the last year. In regards to
your question, you are very defensive
about changing your policy and your
positions with regard to the
environment. Now, you just tell
>> Do you want me to tell you what the two
biggest court cases are of the last few
years?
>> This is what I want you.
>> Michigan vers EPA.
>> Whoa.
>> West Virginia vers EPA.
>> No, you're here because you need money
from us. So halt for the second and wait
for the questions and answer the
question.
>> Well, I answered your question and you
didn't like my answer because you don't
know what loperbrite is. Because you
don't know what the major policies do is
because you you're asking me
>> you're asking me about section 202 of
the Clean Air Act and you don't you
don't read it. You don't know what it
says.
>> Listen, and what you want to do is to
deny you want
>> No, I actually read the law. I do my
homework.
>> Really?
>> You're just somebody who likes to have
the microphone on. You know what I have
to do?
>> I read the law. I read the Supreme Court
and I would say
>> no. What you should do for your
constituents is actually read statute.
>> Budget is at real risk.
>> Read your Supreme Court.
>> This is the appropriations committee.
>> You care about science now. You're
threatening to defund it.
>> Oh my god. No, you don't fund science.
>> Because you don't know what loper is
because you don't know what the major
policies do is. Your message to our our
folks at the EPA is that you want to
defund us.
>> Have to listen to this BS. The
>> BS. You think I made up these cases? of
each other.
>> Yeah, I think you have made up
>> I made I made up Loperbrite. I made up
West Virginia versus EPA. I made up
Michigan versus EPA.
>> Whoa.
>> Whoa. Is right.
>> Uh what what are you doing? Why looters?
>> We're not going to get any very far by
talking on uh on top of each other so
that no one can hear.
>> If you ask a question, you have to give
the witness an opportunity.
>> I do not have a witness attack me. Not
when he's
>> give the witness a chance.
>> Federal resources.
>> Answer the question.
>> I've asked a question. I don't have an
answer.
>> Oh. So what you want me to start over
with the last question? What's your
question? Do you have a new one? My
question to you is in what is going on
in our streets today with regarding
flooding, what's going on with our air
quality, what is happening with uh in
the Antarctic, what is how do you
abandon what the EPA's uh uh duties are
to protect Americans? And because in
fact given the way you have dealt with
the uh with with the budget it is a a a
sop to polluters. You are really it
would appear I I I just said what the
president claimed at Mara Lago is you
give me a billion dollars and I'll take
make sure that you are made rich. I
didn't say that. Your boss, the
president of the United States was was
clear on that. I I
And and that's what this is that that's
that's what what is going on here.
>> Okay.
>> So you don't have an answer.
>> No, no, no, no. Let me answer. Oh,
please let me answer your question. Can
I answer it? Yes.
>> Oh, thank you. Thank you, chairman.
>> So, it's interesting. You're saying that
we're letting polluters off the hook.
Yeah. Is
>> that your position? Yeah. Okay. So, um,
since, uh, January 20th in the first
year of the Trump administration,
uh, we sentenced more criminal
defendants, 100 compared to the 91 of
the last year of the Biden
administration. God,
>> we obtained far more in criminal fees
and restitution. In the last year of the
Biden administration, the number is 57.7
million. In the first year of the Trump
administration, it's 561.9
million. We also have obtained far more
in criminal forfeite. So, in the last
year of the Biden administration, they
obtained, get this, $1.1
million.1
million. You know how much we did?
>> Oh, tell us $1.1 billion.
>> Tell us tell us how many of those
projects did start for you. Okay.
>> Look, I I don't go back to to Biden. I'm
going forward.
>> Pounds of illegal pestic No, you're
actually making an accusation that we're
letting the polluters off the hook.
Pounds of illegal pesticides blocked
from entering the US. 1.65 million
pounds. previously used.96 million
pounds. This is another one. Cleanup of
contaminated soil and water in the last
year of the Biden administration. 1.99
million cubic yards in the first year of
the Trump administration. 59.3
million cubic yards. More value of
injunctive relief, 6.02 billion. More
civil enforcement case conclusions.
Okay.
>> You could you you want to make the claim
that we're just giving up uh on on the
work of the enforcement and compliance
office.
>> Is that your question? I'd say don't if
that if your cup was filled with
glyphosate. I'm telling you as the
administrator of EPA, don't drink it.
>> Thank you so much for agreeing to what
we need to
>> I don't know what the question was. You
you're holding up a cup saying
glyphosate.
>> You know,
>> don't drink it. Don't inject it.
>> Maybe you should try doing that.
>> Okay. Excuse me. Okay, I'm going to move
on to a second question, Mr. Chairman.
>> I hope it's not as long as the first.
>> Well, it it wouldn't have been prolonged
except that you you know, it it's it's
interesting.
>> Yeah, we come with facts. We have
answers.
>> Go ahead.
>> It really is. They're really so blank
arrogant, you know, when they're really
you're making a mockery of what the
agencies are all about. 40 years, clean
water and drinking water state revolving
loan funds have provided lowinterest
loans to eligible recipients for water
infrastructure projects. Money is paid
back into the revolving loan fund. The
state makes new loans to other
recipients for high priority water
quality activities. This budget proposes
$35 million in total for two revolving
uh two revolving funds, an $852
million or 74% cut from the $1.2 billion
um uh enacted in 2026. This is under the
guise of quote encouraging states to
take responsibility for local water
infrastructure projects end quote. Quite
the encouragement. Overnight, states
face massive cuts to their budget, would
be forced to make impossible choices to
fill the gap. Connecticut would go from
receiving an estimated 28.2 million in
2026 to only $3.2 million in 2027, an
89%
cut. This approach was roundly rejected
in the bipartisan biccameal 2026
agreement for this bill. According to
EPA's own assessments, our drinking
water, wastewater, and storm water
systems need at least $1.3 trillion in
improvements over the next 20 years.
Funding that states use for critical
purposes. They repair or they upgrade
wastewater treatment facilities, well
repairs, emergency actions that are
needed in the aftermath of natural
disasters to make sure residents do not
lose access to safe, clean water. Town
of Wallingford, Connecticut used a
revolving funds to upgrade their water
pollution control facility to help
remove phosphorus and put UV
disinfection methods in place. Now, easy
one. Is it generally more coste
effective to maintain water
infrastructure in good standing or wait
until it breaks down, for example, a
water mane rupturing and flooding a
community and then clean up the problem?
It's a huge problem in this country that
you have aging water infrastructure. We
saw with the PTOIC interceptor
>> given that states will not be able to
plug the budget hole. I don't know if
you've taken a look at the budgets of
states.
>> Well, we studied everything that's in
front of us.
>> Well, I don't know if you study the
state the state of Connecticut's budget.
What is your plan for communities when
they inevitably suffer failures in their
water systems, which is going to happen
>> with all with with um all due respect to
all of the amazing
initiatives that you call
congressionally directed spending. Uh
and we see firsthand that a lot of the
projects uh that we're administering
includes a lot of uh very uh very good
use as uh as members of Congress set out
in their uh desire to uh have this
congressionally directed spending
included in appropriations. We don't
include that in our proposal. How much
uh you might choose to raid the SRF on
congressionally directed spending is a
decision that Congress makes as you go
through your deliberative process. I'm
not saying that passing judgment on
individual projects. No, actually I'm
not um but I'm saying I don't ask for
your earmarks for you. That's a process
that you all have. You're not going to
see that in the president's FY27 budget.
We we are you're not going to see uh
congressionally driven set aides. Uh the
SRF fund uh would be flowing as a
revolving fund if it wasn't continuously
rated
>> for ear marks and set aides.
>> I see. I see
>> you're the ranking member of the
appropriations committee. You should
understand that.
>> Tell me about it. And I introduced
community projects a number of years,
>> right? And I could trash I could sit
here trashing them, but I'm not. You
have a process
>> because members would not we we you know
they they were designed for a purpose
because let me just tell you you got an
89% cut to the state revolving loan
fund. You can't tell me that that 89
>> and I'm helping you with your math
>> is going to is going to community
>> right and I did not ask for your
earmarks for you.
>> Hell no. God knows you know this is
right. Exactly. You know we we we fund
we want you know I IGA had huge
investments in water projects CPFs in
water infrastructure. We don't raid the
state revolving loan funds.
>> Yes you do. Absolutely.
>> We do not
>> 100%.
>> We do not.
>> That's your congressionally directed
spending.
You don't you don't you're not giving
them out as as loans.
You're just taking the money out of the
SRF and you're giving them to local to
to local communities. By the way, I'm
not I'm not passing judgment on what you
choose to say uh has merit because
you're you're you're making the ask on
behalf of your constituents. But that's
exactly what you're doing. You're taking
money out of it and you're and you're
giving it to local community. So, it's
no longer revolving. It's no longer a
revolving fund when you take money out
for set aides and earmarks. You know, I
I tell you, we we were I think on a
bipartisan basis, we were able to deal
with this before. It's um in in terms of
the the restoration, and it will be once
again what the what the appropriations
committee does on a bipartisan biccameal
basis that will address this issue. And
so, uh,
I think you have a lot to answer for in
terms of what you all are doing with
regard to the environment, but that's a
a a discussion for another day. Thank
you, Mr. Chairman.
>> Thank you, uh, Mr. Lauro. And I if I get
this straight,
we take the
>> uh community finance projects, I forget
that term, out of the SRF. Consequently,
state EPA would have more money if we
didn't direct spending out of that
>> 100%.
>> That's true, isn't it?
>> In a very, very large way.
>> Yeah. And uh I still support the SRS
because frankly I know a lot about my
communities, a lot more about my
communities than anybody in Washington
DC does. And that's why I support that
effort. And uh but it it is true that if
we did no uh community finance projects,
there would be much more in that account
that would go to the states. Would
>> have all the money in the world.
>> Wouldn't change the money just how it's
directed.
>> M. McCullum.