[00:00] Thank you.
[00:00] >> Hi. How's it going?
[00:01] >> Hi. Um, this is my first time ever
[00:04] speaking, you know, about anything. So,
[00:06] I did write a little bit closer. I did
[00:09] write a little bit down to talk about
[00:11] and I really just want to talk about um
[00:13] Charlie Kirk and things like that.
[00:16] >> So, just give me time.
[00:17] >> Yeah, no worries. Um, for me personally
[00:20] as a black woman in America, I don't
[00:23] have really any empathy for him to be
[00:26] honest because of the things that he
[00:27] spoke about the the words that came out
[00:29] of his mouth, him saying, you know,
[00:32] hurtful and hateful things. I don't feel
[00:34] like me or anyone else here, if we don't
[00:37] have empathy for him, should be
[00:38] ridiculed ridiculed or, you know, talked
[00:42] about bad for not having empathy for
[00:44] him.
[00:45] >> Yeah. Yeah, I I can't force you to have
[00:47] empathy for Charlie. Um I have a lot of
[00:50] um you know, I mean, honestly, Charlie's
[00:51] death has devastated me and I know that
[00:53] it's devastated a lot of other people
[00:54] around me. Uh a lot of my I we actually
[00:58] have a friend who spoke to Charlie the
[01:00] night before he died. Uh we I mean we're
[01:02] just like it's just hard for us, right?
[01:04] So I but I can't force you to have
[01:06] empathy for Charlie. Um the only thing
[01:08] that I have an issue with like an active
[01:11] proactive issue with is when people
[01:13] celebrate his death because I don't
[01:14] think that anybody who's a peaceful
[01:16] person who was killed for their words
[01:17] should be uh murdered. Um can I ask you
[01:21] what hurtful and hateful things Charlie
[01:22] said?
[01:23] >> Okay. So him stating that it's okay for
[01:26] certain that gun deaths should happen to
[01:29] withhold the second amendment was wrong.
[01:31] Him saying that empathy was a madeup
[01:33] word. Him saying that the civil rights
[01:35] movement was a mistake. Even him talking
[01:37] about Junth and how that shouldn't be a
[01:39] holiday when it literally ended slavery
[01:41] and and is a way to, you know, like
[01:45] uplift people for moving on from slavery
[01:47] and things like that. The words that he
[01:49] spoke targeted black people, women,
[01:51] LGBTQ people, um, uh, immigrants. Um,
[01:56] him saying even that, uh, people born
[01:59] here in the United States from
[02:01] immigrants shouldn't shouldn't be
[02:02] allowed in the US is wrong as well. I
[02:05] also feel like,
[02:08] >> just to clarify it up,
[02:10] >> you don't could we could we hear that um
[02:12] list just one more time uh because I
[02:14] want to go through some of these. And by
[02:15] the way, there's at least one in there
[02:16] that I disagree with Charlie on and
[02:19] that's Junth. I think that Junth should
[02:21] be celebrated. I don't know what why why
[02:23] Charlie said this. I don't know the
[02:24] context around the quote, but I think if
[02:26] not for anything else, all Republicans
[02:28] should support Junth because guess who
[02:29] freed the slaves? Abraham Lincoln. He
[02:32] was a Republican. the first Republican
[02:35] and we shouldn't have slavery in the
[02:36] country. I don't know why that's not
[02:37] something that we should all agree on.
[02:39] But for the conservatives listening, uh
[02:41] Jun should be celebrated uh if not for
[02:43] anything other than if you don't care
[02:45] about slaves. Abraham Lincoln was a
[02:47] Republican and he did it. Slaves were
[02:49] freed in the north by 1804 though. That
[02:50] was 5 years before Lincoln.
[02:52] >> What What president made uh Junth a
[02:54] federal holiday?
[02:55] >> I'm not sure who it was.
[02:57] >> It was Trump.
[02:58] >> It was really it was Trump.
[02:58] >> It was Trump in 2019 or 2020, whichever
[03:01] one it was. Uh what were the other
[03:02] statements?
[03:03] >> Okay. Um he talked about Jeene. He
[03:07] talked about um he said that US like um
[03:12] people born from immigrants in the
[03:14] United States should not be
[03:16] >> Absolutely. I agree with that.
[03:18] >> So the the um I agree with this 100%. I
[03:20] I think that there should be a by the
[03:22] way almost the entire world had this
[03:24] doctrine. It's called just soil doctrine
[03:26] where this the child of a person as long
[03:29] as they're born on American soil is an
[03:31] American citizen.
[03:32] >> 2019
[03:33] >> there's only four countries in the world
[03:35] now that have this just soil doctrine.
[03:37] The United States is one of them. Uh
[03:38] this doctrine in the United States comes
[03:40] from the 14th amendment. The author of
[03:43] the 14th amendment. He was a senator and
[03:46] before he died in the late 1800s he
[03:49] talked about what he meant by this. And
[03:52] what he meant by this was that the
[03:54] children uh of diplomats,
[03:57] aliens, and foreigners would not be
[04:00] American citizens. You have to have one
[04:03] parent who is a uh citizen of the United
[04:06] States or possibly two parents who are
[04:08] permanent residents. You can't just hop
[04:10] the fence and come have a baby and then
[04:13] that baby is automatically an American
[04:14] citizen. They have no connection to the
[04:16] to the this country. They've done
[04:18] nothing to to earn it.
[04:20] >> They should be an American citizen. just
[04:21] because their parents have jumped the
[04:22] fence.
[04:24] >> Okay. What did you guys do to earn to be
[04:26] here?
[04:26] >> Uh I was born to two American citizens.
[04:29] >> Okay. So, what did they do to be born
[04:30] here? Like what what like
[04:32] >> they're foreigners and aliens. I'm not
[04:34] an alien or a foreigner and the author
[04:36] of the 14th amendment specifically said
[04:39] that the citizenship in the United
[04:41] States will not apply. By the way, this
[04:42] applies uh this is the same as the Civil
[04:44] Rights Act that came just before the
[04:46] 14th Amendment,
[04:47] >> which he also was a mistake by the Well,
[04:49] no. He was talking about the Civil
[04:50] Rights Act of 56. I don't know. I don't
[04:52] know Charlie's reasoning for this. I've
[04:54] heard arguments against the Civil Rights
[04:55] Act, not ones that um talk about like
[04:58] it's in a
[04:59] >> non He said it's the most radical
[05:01] position that he has. So, it's like
[05:03] majority of conservatives don't really
[05:04] agree with that. I don't know his
[05:06] argument either.
[05:07] >> I I know some like uh I think that the
[05:11] market should be able to decide who they
[05:13] get business to and who they don't get
[05:15] business to and not in the like you
[05:16] shouldn't be served at a restaurant.
[05:17] That's not what I'm saying. What I'm
[05:18] saying is that if somebody's racist and
[05:20] doesn't want you to eat at a restaurant,
[05:22] I want to know who the hell that person
[05:24] is so that I can not give them my
[05:26] business rather than forcing them to
[05:28] give people they hate business. Uh I I
[05:30] would rather know who they are so I can
[05:32] boycott them.
[05:33] >> Uh so but
[05:35] >> but for you to say that
[05:36] >> but and I'm not saying I support
[05:37] abolishing the Civil Rights Act, by the
[05:38] way.
[05:40] >> Okay. But for you to say that, oh um a
[05:42] person born from two immigrants doesn't
[05:45] deserve to be born here or have US
[05:46] citizenship because they didn't earn
[05:48] anything.
[05:49] >> Not not to two immigrants, two illegal
[05:51] immigrants. So I think in in most
[05:53] countries now that have abolished just
[05:54] soil doctrine, most of them uh allow
[05:57] people to become citizens if they're
[06:00] born to two permanent residents on the
[06:02] soil of the country. Uh those are
[06:04] immigrants, of course, permanent
[06:05] residents. They're not citizens. Um but
[06:07] I think that you need you're I don't
[06:09] know. I don't know how I feel about two
[06:10] permanent residents, but you need at
[06:11] least one parent that is an American
[06:13] citizen. That's for sure.
[06:21] >> Um, I just want to also add that I'm an
[06:24] immigrant. I came to the country
[06:25] legally. I don't think Charlie Kirk is
[06:27] against immigrants like myself. He's
[06:28] against people abusing our laws or
[06:30] violating our laws, which illegal
[06:32] immigrants tend to do. And then they
[06:34] come to our country and abused a
[06:36] loophole that allows them to have a kid
[06:37] in the country and now you have two
[06:39] illegal immigrants with a US citizen.
[06:41] >> And and by the way, this so so I just
[06:43] told you about how the author of the
[06:44] 14th Amendment specifically and very
[06:46] clearly outlined that this would not
[06:49] apply to foreigners, the children of
[06:51] diplomats or aliens. Um the decision,
[06:54] the Supreme Court decision that that
[06:56] caused this that we now just allow
[06:58] anybody to be an American citizen is uh
[07:00] Wong Kim Arc. Okay. And it was done
[07:03] roughly 15 years after the author of the
[07:06] 14th amendment died. They waited for him
[07:08] to die and then they totally desecrated
[07:10] the document that he wrote and ratified.
[07:12] >> Senator Howard. Senator Howard.
[07:15] >> Okay.
[07:16] >> 1863.
[07:17] >> He also said to bring back public
[07:19] executions.
[07:20] >> Um I don't know how everybody else
[07:22] feels, but I think the person who killed
[07:23] Charlie Kirk should be publicly
[07:24] executed. I I don't support the death
[07:26] penalty. I'm I'm exaggerating, of
[07:27] course, but I don't support the death
[07:29] penalty. Um, I I see how it could be
[07:32] useful. The only reason I don't support
[07:33] the death penalty,
[07:34] >> the reason I don't support the death
[07:35] penalty is not because um I don't see
[07:38] the utility in it or I don't think
[07:40] people should be killed for awful
[07:41] crimes. It's only because I have a hard
[07:43] time trusting the government. This is
[07:44] actually probably something a lot of you
[07:46] would agree with. Uh we have an
[07:47] exoneration rate that's far too high and
[07:49] that includes people who sit on death
[07:50] row and I don't trust the government to
[07:53] definitively be able to put somebody to
[07:56] death. I think that you always need to
[07:58] the exoneration process is a check and
[08:00] balance on the justice system and you
[08:02] get to sit in prison until you die and
[08:04] during that entire time between when you
[08:06] go to prison and when you die you are
[08:07] able to file appeals and get yourself
[08:09] out of prison if you're there wrongfully
[08:10] and then sue the government for wrongful
[08:11] imprisonment. So I don't support the
[08:13] death penalty but if we could for some
[08:15] reason 100%
[08:17] uh convict somebody like we know for
[08:19] like an omnisient fact that this person
[08:21] is 100% guilty of doing a school
[08:23] shooting or some other horrific crime.
[08:25] Uh I say televise it.
[08:27] >> Can can I just ask you are you against
[08:29] public executions?
[08:31] >> Yes.
[08:31] >> Okay. Even in the case we have this case
[08:34] that was inspired by racism, right? It
[08:36] was a white supremacist in northern New
[08:38] York. I believe it was Buffalo. He went
[08:42] >> Okay, there you go. He went into the
[08:44] grocery store, targeted black people,
[08:46] killed them because of their race. Nine
[08:48] of them, I believe it was. Do you
[08:50] believe this person should just fraud in
[08:51] jail or do you would you like to see
[08:53] this individual be put in public and
[08:55] executed?
[08:57] >> I feel like if we were going to do the
[08:59] death penalty that shouldn't be
[09:00] something that's public. It should just
[09:01] be done.
[09:03] >> Yeah. I mean, I think this is just like
[09:05] a preference of like, you know, what we
[09:08] I think this ends up being more of like
[09:10] a preference or like a debate of
[09:11] slippery slope or something like that. I
[09:13] think if you could 100% prove that
[09:15] somebody of like heinous crimes actually
[09:16] did it, like a school shooter or the
[09:18] Buffalo shooter for example, who had the
[09:19] n-word on his rifle and went and
[09:21] targeted black people, I think those
[09:22] people should be publicly executed. I
[09:23] say televise it. Um,
[09:26] >> so they stopped doing it.
[09:27] >> Say I was going to say something really
[09:28] prolific, but I forgot what it was.
[09:29] >> But I I just want to add like with the
[09:31] death penalty, I believe that regardless
[09:34] of how much due process you get, at some
[09:36] point if you
[09:37] >> Let me say this to y'all real quick.
[09:39] >> We're going to keep talking. We're
[09:40] engaged in civil debate here. do not
[09:43] need to be debated about. If y'all
[09:44] believe in something, stand for it. Walk
[09:46] away from this.
[09:47] >> Hey, give him a mic.
[09:48] >> Can you come up to the mic and discuss
[09:50] it?
[09:50] y'all.
[09:51] >> Okay. Okay. So, that's a good example of
[09:53] not liking public discourse. Right. At
[09:56] the end of the day, Kim and I may have a
[09:58] difference in opinion from you guys. But
[09:59] America is founded, literally founded on
[10:01] the idea that we can disagree publicly,
[10:04] peacefully and do so. And we want all of
[10:06] you to have a voice. That's why we're
[10:08] here. That's why we put a mic in front
[10:09] of you guys and give you the opportunity
[10:10] to come up here and and speak in front
[10:12] of a lot of people. There's a lot of
[10:13] people watching at home and I think it's
[10:15] important that everybody see these
[10:16] debates and um yeah, so I'm sorry you
[10:18] got cut off.
[10:19] >> It's fine. I also feel like a lot of
[10:21] people are now coming out to talk about
[10:22] how he died, but I don't see anyone
[10:24] talking about people in Gaza. I don't
[10:25] see anyone talking about the house be um
[10:29] the house Melissa
[10:31] >> Portman.
[10:32] >> Yes. And her husband who died which they
[10:34] died from a Trump supporter. Uh, I think
[10:37] David can talk about this a little bit
[10:38] more about how that person wasn't a
[10:39] Trump supporter. Um, but what I would
[10:41] say is like I right now unequivocally
[10:47] condemn the death of Melissa Hortman.
[10:49] And notice how this I think the sign
[10:50] actually does say RIP Charlie Charlie
[10:52] Kirk, but he's just the most recent one.
[10:54] Nobody should be killed for their
[10:55] opinions. That includes communist. It
[10:57] includes Nazis. Until you act on your
[10:58] opinions in a violent way, you shouldn't
[11:00] be harmed because of them. Um, and even
[11:03] then, you're not being caused because of
[11:04] your harmed because of your opinion.
[11:06] You're being harmed because you hurt
[11:07] somebody. Uh, furthermore, uh, just as a
[11:10] like notice for everybody. Uh,
[11:15] he's a Jew. I'm a Zionist. We love to
[11:18] talk about Israel. We talk about it
[11:19] probably too much. Um, it's not
[11:21] something that we're talking about on
[11:23] this tour. Not because we're afraid of
[11:25] talking about it or anything like that,
[11:26] but just because um, there's a lot of
[11:28] conspiracy theories that Charlie Kirk
[11:29] was killed by Israel. And it's really
[11:31] something that is divided. Um I think
[11:34] our side is Israel and we don't want to
[11:38] disrespect Charlie Kirk's legacy and his
[11:42] um life's work by dividing our people.
[11:46] So that's the only reason we're not
[11:47] going to talk about it is because we
[11:48] feel that it's disrespectful to Charlie
[11:50] Charlie's memory.
[11:51] >> Okay.
[11:51] >> We'll talk about we'll be talking about
[11:52] it eventually though.
[11:53] >> Also, what legacy do you think that he
[11:55] has? Uh his legacy I think was um
[11:58] encouraging people to have free speech,
[12:00] free dialogue, um showing people to be
[12:02] fearless in their opinions whether
[12:04] they're like me or they're like you. Um
[12:06] giving people like you a platform. Um
[12:08] giving people like me and David a
[12:10] platform. Um his mission was to free
[12:12] speech. More I guess more importantly to
[12:14] him his faith. I'm not religious. Uh but
[12:16] obviously Charlie's faith was very
[12:17] important to him and free speech as
[12:19] well. So I think that was his legacy.
[12:21] >> Okay. Yes. I've heard a lot about people
[12:23] saying that he was a Christian and
[12:24] things like that, but as far as I know,
[12:27] anything that he spoke about wasn't in
[12:29] the word of God or showing anything.
[12:33] >> He talked about his faith a lot. Um, I
[12:34] think it was probably the thing he
[12:36] talked about most actually. He tried not
[12:37] to talk about his faith when he was
[12:38] sitting at a table like this with me and
[12:40] you because I don't Are you religious?
[12:42] Okay. Okay. You are religious. Well, I a
[12:44] lot of people who hold your beliefs,
[12:46] secularism is obviously more common on
[12:48] the left. And so David and I if we were
[12:51] religious, right, um we're not going to
[12:54] make an argument at a non-religious
[12:55] person from a religious perspective
[12:57] because it's never going to matter to
[12:59] them. And so we try religious
[13:01] conservatives or religious anybody tries
[13:03] to argue their opinions on a secular
[13:05] basis so that people can um understand
[13:08] them and sort of realize that there's an
[13:12] argument outside of religion and so that
[13:14] you know because like you can't you
[13:16] can't you can't you can't basically like
[13:17] compare apples to oranges right if he's
[13:19] not a he's not a Christian and I'm a
[13:20] Christian I can't argue Christianity to
[13:22] him because he doesn't care he's not a
[13:23] Christian and so I think that's why you
[13:24] didn't hear Charlie on college campuses
[13:26] talking about faith a lot but he talked
[13:27] about it a lot on his on his podcast and
[13:30] he he would stand in front of his
[13:32] supporters. Uh let's say you guys are
[13:33] all Trump supporters. We've got the
[13:34] opposite that Charlie had. Um he would
[13:37] stand in front of his supporters and
[13:38] say, "Do not harass the people that come
[13:41] up to speak to me. Show them the respect
[13:43] that we're not shown on these campuses.
[13:45] They're children of God. They're God's
[13:46] creations and treat them as such." Uh
[13:48] and there's he's said this. I don't I
[13:50] don't I don't every time, but like
[13:52] >> Well, no. Every time any every time
[13:54] anybody would start booing in the crowd,
[13:55] right, like Trump supporters would he
[13:58] would step right in and say, "We don't
[13:59] boo people. We don't do this." Why?
[14:01] Because it's a place where they booed
[14:03] him and no, he did not say anything.
[14:05] They said that's a freedom of speech. He
[14:07] was they were booing someone that was
[14:09] speaking and he did not do anything.
[14:11] >> Well, I'm I'm sure that it's obviously
[14:13] difficult to control people. We had that
[14:14] issue yesterday. He remembers. Um, so I
[14:17] like I I I think it would be difficult
[14:19] for Charlie to every single time
[14:21] somebody booze like step in. But he did
[14:23] literally before before he would
[14:24] actually start his programming, he would
[14:26] like rally everyone around his tent and
[14:27] say, "Do not disrespect these people. Be
[14:30] nice to them. Treat them with respect.
[14:31] Show them the respect we don't receive.
[14:32] They're God's creations. Treat them as
[14:34] such. Love them even though they
[14:35] disagree with you."
[14:37] >> Yeah.
[14:40] >> We appreciate you having this
[14:41] conversation with us. Very, very simple.
[14:43] That's all we're looking for at the end
[14:45] of the day because uh that way we can
[14:47] speak, you can speak. We're tolerant of
[14:49] your position. Same here. You may not
[14:50] agree with it, but we appreciate it. We
[14:53] appreciate everyone being here as well.
[14:55] Um
[14:55] >> especially the people who disagree with
[14:57] us.
[14:58] >> Especially the people who disagree with
[14:59] us.
[15:00] >> Okay. Um just one more thing. As far as
[15:02] I'm concerned, I do have empathy for his
[15:06] children, but other than that, I really
[15:08] don't. I feel like the things that he
[15:10] spoke about and the things that he said
[15:11] didn't align with what I believe in at
[15:15] all and that him saying that, you know,
[15:18] death by guns is okay to withhold the
[15:21] Second Amendment is basically what
[15:22] happened to him. And I believe the power
[15:23] of your tongue is very strong and it's
[15:28] sad for his children, but other than
[15:29] that,
[15:30] >> I don't have I respect you for having
[15:31] empathy for his children. And again, I
[15:33] can't force you to have empathy for
[15:34] Charlie himself. Um, but what I would
[15:37] say is I I would I would probably wager
[15:40] that you and I disagree on almost
[15:41] everything
[15:43] >> because the hats that you guys are
[15:44] wearing.
[15:44] >> Yeah. Yeah. So, but but if you got shot
[15:46] and killed right now, I would have
[15:47] empathy for you and I would feel bad for
[15:48] you.
[15:49] >> I would think that Charlie
[15:50] >> I don't think that he would at all.
[15:53] >> Even even the people that are
[15:54] celebrating Even the people that are
[15:56] celebrating his death, I I can't speak
[15:58] for it because he's obviously not here,
[15:59] but from what I've seen, what do you
[16:02] think he would do with them? I I I mean
[16:05] I think that he would immediately
[16:06] condemn it and say that you should never
[16:07] kill God's creation. That's what I would
[16:09] imagine he would say again for their
[16:11] death or or something.
[16:12] >> No. Charlie actively advocated against
[16:14] political violence all the time. And I
[16:16] think that um again we're not Charlie.
[16:18] We can't
[16:20] >> we don't know,
[16:20] >> you know, we can't we can't get in touch
[16:22] with him. So like we can't speak for
[16:25] him, but we can make guesses based on
[16:27] what we've seen from him and of his
[16:28] character of how we think he would
[16:30] respond.
[16:32] But I mean neither neither of us can
[16:34] neither of us can really prove how he
[16:35] would react. So it's not like you know I
[16:38] don't know that you know we just have to
[16:40] agree to disagree.
[16:41] >> Yeah. All right. It was nice meeting
[16:42] you.
[16:43] >> Yeah. I appreciate you coming up.
[16:44] >> Thank you so much.
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