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Charlie Kirk is the Founder and President of Turning Point USA, the largest and fastest growing conservative youth activist organization in the country with over 250,000 student members, over 150 full-time staff, and a presence on over 2,000 high school and college campuses nationwide. Charlie is also the Chairman of Students for Trump, which aims to activate one million new college voters on campuses in battleground states in the lead up to the 2020 presidential election. His social media reaches over 100 million people per month and according to Axios, he is one of the "top 10 most engaged" Twitter handles in the world. He is also the host of “The Charlie Kirk Show,” which regularly ranks among the top news shows on Apple podcast charts.
Charlie Kirk Debates Boise State Student on Abortion Rights and When Human Life Begins
Charlie Kirk engages in a heated debate with a Boise State University student who challenges him on abortion rights and LGBT issues. The exchange centers on fundamental questions about when human life begins, with the student arguing that a fetus is merely a "clump of cells" while Kirk maintains that human development objectively begins at conception. The conversation covers reproductive rights, personal responsibility, the adoption system, and constitutional protections. Kirk pushes back against accusations that he's taking away rights, arguing instead that he's defending the rights of the unborn. The debate grows intense as both participants defend their positions on bodily autonomy, the definition of human life, and the moral implications of abortion.
At Boise State University, a student approached Charlie Kirk with a provocative question: "Why do you care so much about other individuals living their lives? What is affecting you?" The student accused Kirk of affecting people's rights and hurting others. Kirk immediately turned the question back, asking why the student cared so much about what he had to say.
The student's answer set the tone for the entire exchange: Kirk was accused of taking away gender-affirming care, affecting abortion rights, and hurting people. This launched a debate that would touch on fundamental questions about human life, rights, and personal responsibility.
Defining Woman and Gender Identity
Kirk challenged the student to define what a woman is. The student responded that it's what people identify as, distinguishing between gender and sex. When Kirk asked if anyone can be a woman, the student answered yes.
Kirk then asked at what point you know you're looking at a woman. The student argued that it doesn't matter when you're looking at a woman, asking Kirk if he could tell a baby's gender without looking at their private parts. Kirk countered that by six months old, young boys tend to gravitate toward balls and remotes.
The student dismissed this as the result of socialization, claiming that parents convince individuals at a young age to want certain things. The student even cited that pink used to be a male color instead of blue in the 1920s as evidence of how gender roles are socially constructed.
The Core Debate: When Does Human Life Begin?
Kirk pressed the student on the abortion issue, challenging the accusation that he was taking rights away. The student maintained that Kirk was affecting LGBT individuals and women's rights, and claimed that even a cyst on a uterus would be considered an abortion.
Kirk clarified that for something to be an abortion, it must involve a human life. He then asked a fundamental question: Do you agree life is a right? The student responded that if it's a clump of cells, then it's not alive.
Kirk reframed the question: Do you think every human being has a right to life? The student answered, "Depending on how many weeks." Kirk pointed out the irony: "Who's trying to take rights away? I want to protect the rights of all human beings. You call them a clump of cells."
When asked when it becomes a human being, the student said around the second trimester. Kirk stated that human development objectively begins at conception. When the student mentioned miscarriage, Kirk called it a tragedy. The student then raised the case of pregnancies that threaten the mother's life.
The Numbers and Exceptions
Kirk acknowledged that life-threatening pregnancies represent only a couple thousand cases per year and can be considered separately. However, he emphasized that over 1.5 million abortions occur every year that don't involve rape, incest, or life of the mother.
The student argued that most individuals having abortions are mothers who cannot afford it and usually already have two to three kids. Kirk challenged this reasoning: "So it's acceptable to be able to murder your young if all of a sudden you don't have the money to support them?"
He continued: "Development does not equal dignity. A human being is a human being regardless of the process of development that it is in. Period." Kirk maintained that he wanted more human beings to be born, which would ironically result in more women being born, since he supports the right to life as paramount.
Historical Context and Murder
The student pointed out that abortion has been going on throughout history and affects people. Kirk countered that so has murder, slavery, and child sacrifice. When the student objected to this comparison, Kirk pressed further, asking the student to define murder.
The student defined it as having the intent to kill a person. Kirk then asked a crucial question: If it's a clump of cells, what species is it? Is it a homo sapien, a crocodile, or a raccoon? The student eventually conceded it depends on what it's going to be, and if it's human cells, then human cells.
Kirk made his point: "If it's a human clump of cells, then it's a human life deserving of human rights. And the first right is life. And so you could call it a clump of cells, which is dehumanizing language." He concluded that ironically, the student was the one intruding on human rights, while he was protecting them.
The Adoption System Argument
The student challenged Kirk about children in the foster care system who are being assaulted and hurt, asking what he would do about them. Kirk responded that more money should be put into the system so people can actually get adopted.
He then provided a statistic that reframed the debate: There are 2 million people on the adoption waiting list, while there are about 1 million abortions every year. This means there are twice as many people who want to adopt than there are discarded children every year.
DNA, Rights, and Personal Responsibility
Kirk returned to what he considered the fundamental question: Human development objectively begins at conception. He asked if they could agree that every human being, once their DNA is formed, should have the right to life and the right to live the life they want to live.
The student resisted, but Kirk pressed on: DNA is formed when the sperm enters the egg. This DNA is the blueprint for life, a unique marker that defines each individual. Kirk asked pointedly: "If it's not your DNA, why is it your choice? Why do you have a choice to eliminate it?"
The student maintained that the individual who is pregnant should have the choice because the fetus cannot survive without the mother. Kirk then moved to a question he considered crucial: Outside of rape, how did the woman get pregnant?
When the student tried to bring up various scenarios, Kirk offered a hypothetical: "How about if I say I'm okay with abortion for rape, incest, and life of the mother. Let's make it illegal in the other circumstances. Would you agree?" The student raised concerns about proving these situations.
Sex, Contraceptives, and Consequences
Kirk pointed out that rape can be reported as a crime and incest can be determined through blood tests, but that 99.9% of all abortions are not for rape, incest, or life of the mother. He asked again: In those situations, how did the woman get pregnant? Did a baby just appear in her uterus, or did she do something to potentially have a child?
The student answered that sex was involved but pointed out that contraceptives sometimes fail. Kirk asked if people shouldn't take responsibility for their orgasms. The student made a quip about men, but Kirk redirected: Shouldn't you take responsibility for the sex that you have?
The student explained that if contraceptives fail, she would not have that child. Kirk responded that deciding to have sex is different from necessities like eating or shelter. People can live without having sex and can exercise self-control.
He stated: "If you decide to go have sex, you should understand you play certain games, you win certain prizes, which might be another human life." When the student objected to bringing up another child, Kirk replied: "Then don't go have sex."
Narcissism and Baby Showers
Kirk called out what he saw as narcissism: "I want to keep on having fun and if I have a human being and oopsy daisy, I'm going to eliminate that other human being because I don't want to have the human being, but I want to keep on having free sex. How is that not the most narcissistic worldview that one can possibly espouse?"
The student defended the desire to have sex with a consenting individual without having children, noting that many people have sex for pleasure and even make money from it. Kirk responded that just because many people do something doesn't make it right.
When the student asked if Kirk only had sex to have babies, he explained that he is married with two kids and always does it with trust in God that if they get kids, it's a blessing. The student pointed out that Kirk is in a position where he can afford children and is not in the lower class.
Kirk then posed a question to expose what he saw as inconsistency: When someone is celebrating a pregnancy, do they call it a clump of cell shower or a baby shower? The student said that's when it's already been past those weeks. Kirk countered: "So it magically gets pixie dust. You're a human being now."
The Spectrum of Human Development
The student argued that it develops over time. Kirk agreed but made his point: "Exactly. Because it's all around the spectrum of human development. And human development starts at conception." He noted that the fetus won't be completely developed in the first week, but neither is anyone completely developed at age 30 or 40.
The spectrum of human development continues throughout life. The critical question is: When does that journey begin? Kirk pressed the student: When did your process of development begin? The student conceded: At conception.
Kirk addressed the audience: "Every person in this audience, your life started at conception. And your own DNA from your eye color to your hair color to your height from your likes and your dislikes whether you're an introvert or an extrovert all of that was coded into your deoxyribonucleic acid at the moment that you were a zygote and so that human deserves constitutional and human rights."
Final Exchange
Kirk returned to the student's original accusation that he was taking away people's rights. He pointed out that they had gone through the abortion issue thoroughly. The student maintained that Kirk was affecting LGBT rights and abortion rights, and hurting individuals who can't speak for themselves.
Kirk suggested they might try to reach some agreement. The student immediately said no. Kirk responded: "I will pray for you this Holy Week." The student shot back: "Please don't ever pray for me."
The exchange ended with applause from the Boise State audience. Kirk commented on the lively campus atmosphere and invited other students forward for questions, noting that anyone with disagreements could go to the front of the line.
