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Charlie Kirk is the Founder and President of Turning Point USA, the largest and fastest growing conservative youth activist organization in the country with over 250,000 student members, over 150 full-time staff, and a presence on over 2,000 high school and college campuses nationwide. Charlie is also the Chairman of Students for Trump, which aims to activate one million new college voters on campuses in battleground states in the lead up to the 2020 presidential election. His social media reaches over 100 million people per month and according to Axios, he is one of the "top 10 most engaged" Twitter handles in the world. He is also the host of “The Charlie Kirk Show,” which regularly ranks among the top news shows on Apple podcast charts.
Charlie Kirk Debates Constitutionalism, Trump, and Immigration Law with College Student Robert Matas
Charlie Kirk engages in a detailed debate with Robert Matas, a college student interested in politics, about whether supporting President Trump contradicts constitutional principles. The conversation covers executive branch authority, Department of Justice responsibilities, Supreme Court decisions on due process rights for non-citizens, and the legal framework surrounding immigration enforcement. Kirk walks through specific U.S. Code sections and Supreme Court precedents while addressing common misconceptions about immigration law and constitutional interpretation.
A Respectful Exchange on Constitutional Principles
Robert Matas, a college student with political aspirations, approached Charlie Kirk with a challenge: Can someone be a constitutionalist and still support President Trump? Despite their disagreements, Matas opened by thanking Kirk for providing a platform where those with opposing views can engage in dialogue. He acknowledged the value of challenging his own beliefs with someone who has debated high-profile figures like Governor Newsom.
The Department of Justice and Executive Authority
The debate centered on Matas's claim that Trump openly defied the Supreme Court and questioned whether upholding the Constitution was his job. Kirk immediately challenged this characterization, explaining the fundamental structure of the executive branch. He clarified that the Department of Justice operates entirely within the executive branch and that the Attorney General works directly for the President of the United States.
Kirk emphasized that the DOJ is not a separate branch designed to keep the President in check—that function belongs to the judicial branch, the third branch of government. He pointed to Article Two of the Constitution, which vests executive power in the President, making the Attorney General and DOJ subordinate to presidential authority.
Supreme Court Compliance and Presidential Action
When Matas raised concerns about Trump defying the Supreme Court, Kirk drew a distinction between defiance and challenge. He noted that Joe Biden materially defied a final Supreme Court decision on student loans, while Trump has been navigating legal processes without outright defiance. Kirk addressed the specific case involving the return of an individual to El Salvador, explaining that the Supreme Court ruling required a request to El Salvador, which that country subsequently denied—something beyond presidential control.
Due Process Rights and Immigration Law
The conversation shifted to constitutional protections for non-citizens, particularly regarding the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments. Kirk explained that due process rights for illegal aliens have important limitations established by Supreme Court precedent. He referenced a 2019 Supreme Court decision regarding expedited removal, which determined that illegal aliens who entered within 100 miles of the southern border or within two weeks of entry receive no due process rights.
Kirk further clarified that according to various Supreme Court decisions, an illegal alien present in the United States for less than two years may not receive the same due process protections as citizens or legal residents. He distinguished between due process rights for crimes committed in the interior of the country versus violations related to illegal entry itself.
The Criminal Framework of Immigration Violations
Kirk educated Matas on specific sections of U.S. Code that criminalize various immigration violations:
8 USC 1305: Illegally crossing the southern border
8 USC 1312: Fraudulently filling out asylum claims and harboring oneself illegally in the United States
8 USC 1312 also makes it a felony for illegal aliens to fail to notify the government of their presence, location, and purpose for being in the country
These statutes establish that merely being present in the United States without authorization constitutes an ongoing criminal violation, regardless of whether additional crimes are committed.
Asylum Claims and Legal Loopholes
Matas acknowledged that the Biden administration allowed a loophole through the asylum process, but argued that asylum represented a legal pathway into the country. Kirk countered that many asylum claims constitute fraudulent filings under 8 USC 1312. He explained that while asylum is a legitimate legal process, those who abuse it by making fraudulent claims are in criminal violation of federal law.
The discussion touched on individuals detained while attending meetings to maintain their legal status. Kirk maintained that if these individuals entered using fraudulent asylum claims, they remain in violation of federal criminal statutes regardless of their subsequent compliance with administrative requirements.
Supreme Court Precedent on Non-Citizen Rights
Matas referenced Supreme Court decisions recognizing due process rights for non-citizens in deportation hearings. Kirk agreed but provided important context: these protections apply primarily to illegal aliens who commit crimes while in the country. For example, an illegal alien who commits a DUI receives due process for that specific infraction, but not necessarily for the underlying immigration violation.
Kirk emphasized that the Supreme Court clarified in 2019 that not every illegal alien present in the United States within the last two years receives a deportation hearing. This distinction, he argued, is frequently ignored or misrepresented in media coverage. He encouraged Matas to research the 2018-2019 Supreme Court decisions on expedited removal within 100 miles of the border and within two years of entry.
The Distinction Between Entry Violations and Interior Crimes
A key point Kirk made was the legal distinction between crimes committed upon entry versus crimes committed in the interior of the country. The act of illegal entry itself is criminalized under 8 USC 1305, and this violation is treated differently than criminal acts committed after establishing presence in the United States. This distinction explains why different due process standards apply depending on the nature of the violation and the circumstances of the individual's presence.
Constitutional Authority for Presidential Action
Throughout the debate, Kirk maintained that the Supreme Court has given President Trump full authority to deport illegal aliens without the same due process protections afforded to U.S. citizens or legal residents. This authority stems from both constitutional provisions under Article Two and statutory law codified in Title 8 of the U.S. Code. Kirk argued that understanding this legal framework is essential to evaluating whether presidential actions on immigration comply with constitutional principles.
Educational Exchange and Mutual Respect
Despite the intensity of the debate, both participants maintained a level of mutual respect. Matas thanked Kirk multiple times for correcting his misunderstandings and helping him learn. Kirk encouraged Matas to research the specific legal citations discussed, acknowledging that the young man didn't have all the information but praising his willingness to engage. The exchange demonstrated that substantive policy debates can occur without descending into personal attacks, even when fundamental disagreements exist.
