Jesse Weber and Bobby Chacon Examine the Secret Service Failures in the Donald Trump Assassination Attempt

[00:00] Thomas Crooks.

[00:07] We have more questions than answers

[00:09] right now [music] surrounding the

[00:10] horrifying shooting of former President

[00:12] Donald Trump and others at a rally in

[00:14] Pennsylvania. From the motivation

[00:16] [music] of the identified shooter to how

[00:18] this even happened. We're going to break

[00:20] down these issues with retired FBI

[00:22] [music] agent and attorney Bobby

[00:24] Chicone. Welcome to Sidebar, presented

[00:26] by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber.

[00:29] [music]

[00:32] Take a look at the So that arrow is the

[00:34] lowest amount of illegal immigration

[00:37] ever in recorded history into our

[00:40] country. [applause and cheering]

[00:41] And then

[00:45] and then the worst president in the

[00:47] history of our country took over. And

[00:49] look what happened to our country.

[00:52] Probably 20 million people. [cheering]

[00:55] And you know that's a little bit old.

[00:56] That chart, that chart's a couple of

[00:58] months old. And if you want to really

[01:00] see something that said, take a look

[01:02] what happened over

[01:24] [cheering]

[01:30] Are you ready?

[01:34] Let me get my shoes.

[01:38] [cheering]

[01:42] [applause]

[01:48] [cheering]

[01:53] [cheering]

[01:55] We still have a lot of unanswered

[01:57] questions in the aftermath on the

[01:59] attempted assassination of former

[02:00] President Donald Trump from this past

[02:02] Saturday and we want to talk about it.

[02:04] This is a horrific shooting that left

[02:06] the Republican nominee for president

[02:08] with a damaged ear. Two people

[02:10] critically injured, 57year-old David

[02:12] Dutch, 74y old James Copenhaver.

[02:14] Although now they are in stable

[02:15] condition and sadly this also led to the

[02:18] death of firefighter 50-year-old Cory

[02:21] Comptor who was apparently shielding his

[02:24] family from the gunfire when he was

[02:26] killed. It's just heartbreaking to think

[02:29] about what happened here. And

[02:30] authorities they have identified the

[02:32] shooter 20-year-old Thomas Matthew

[02:35] Krooks a Pennsylvania resident as we

[02:38] reported on our previous sidebar on the

[02:39] shooting. Reporting indicates Krooks was

[02:41] a loner, had been bullied in school. He

[02:44] had tried but failed to make his

[02:46] school's rifle team because apparently

[02:48] he was a bad shot. The FBI currently

[02:50] leading up this investigation looking

[02:52] into this shooting. And at this point,

[02:54] reporting indicates the shooter had used

[02:56] an AR style weapon, a 5.56 rifle.

[02:59] Reporting indicates that the firearm was

[03:00] purchased legally by Crook's father,

[03:02] although it's not clear how he was

[03:04] actually able to gain access to the gun.

[03:06] The shooter was positioned about 130 to

[03:08] 150 yards away on a nearby roof. This

[03:10] seemingly on the outside perimeter of

[03:13] that rally in Butler, Pennsylvania. The

[03:15] shooting took place about 6 minutes into

[03:17] Trump's speech. And after the shooting,

[03:19] law enforcement discovered rudimentary

[03:22] explosives in Crook's car that was

[03:24] parked near the rally. This included an

[03:26] apparent IED. They also discovered bomb-

[03:28] makingaking materials in his home as

[03:30] well. And apparently Krooks also had a

[03:32] remote control detonator on his body as

[03:34] well. So, it makes you think about how

[03:36] much more destructive and lethal this

[03:38] event could have been. But we have so

[03:42] many unanswered questions about what led

[03:44] up to this shooting, how it happened.

[03:47] And so, with that, I want to bring on

[03:49] right now retired FBI agent and attorney

[03:52] Bobby Chicone to talk more about it.

[03:54] Bobby, thanks so much for coming on.

[03:55] First, let me just say, tell our

[03:58] audience why it's so important that the

[04:00] FBI is taking the lead on this

[04:03] investigation. Well, first of all, the

[04:04] FBI has a leot on all investigations

[04:06] involving assassinations or attempted

[04:08] assassinations of presidents or any

[04:09] other federal authority, federal

[04:11] official. That's the FBI's jurisdiction.

[04:13] That's what we do. Here, we're talking

[04:15] about two kind of separate

[04:16] investigations that people shouldn't

[04:18] confuse. One is of the shooter, his

[04:20] actions, how he got to do it. The other

[04:21] is the internal Secret Service or

[04:24] government more governmentwide

[04:25] investigation into the security lapses.

[04:27] Those are two separate investigations.

[04:29] Secret Service has left to do their own

[04:31] internal audit about how this happened.

[04:33] The FBI is just looking at the shooter,

[04:35] his motivations, and how he was able to

[04:38] carry it out up until the point, you

[04:40] know, he pulled that trigger. So, those

[04:41] are two separate issues. They kind of do

[04:44] overlap and merge a little bit, but the

[04:46] FBI is always in charge of any

[04:47] investigation uh of violence towards

[04:50] government officials. Hey everybody,

[04:51] we're going to get back to this historic

[04:53] story in just a minute, but I want to

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[05:36] And and before we get into the first

[05:38] question that I'm going to ask is about

[05:39] the motivation here or the apparent

[05:40] motivation, the FBI has resources that

[05:43] uh another agency doesn't.

[05:44] Well, I think so. Well, I mean, we're

[05:46] the largest government agency in terms

[05:47] of of budget and uh well, the CIA has a

[05:50] bigger budget, but I'm talking about

[05:51] manpower, the number of agents and the

[05:54] budget we have for investigations. Sure,

[05:56] we're the largest federal agency um to

[05:58] do that. Other, you know, DEA focused on

[06:00] drugs, ATF on guns, but we cover

[06:01] everything. So, the FBI does have that

[06:04] broader jurisdiction and therefore uh

[06:06] broader resources.

[06:08] Let me ask you the most basic question

[06:09] when we talk about unanswered questions.

[06:12] Why? If if it's true that he is the

[06:15] shooter, Mr. Krooks, why would he

[06:17] purportedly do this? And how important

[06:20] is determining motive here? Because I

[06:22] think that's an important point, right?

[06:24] How important is it to understand the

[06:25] motivation surrounding it? And and um

[06:27] what could the possible motivation be

[06:29] here?

[06:30] Well, I mean, Jesse, look, with any

[06:32] political uh assassination or attempted

[06:34] assassination that this is, um you know,

[06:37] there's an implied motivation. He wanted

[06:39] Donald Trump dead because he didn't want

[06:40] Donald Trump to become the president

[06:42] next president. I think that that's kind

[06:44] of an implied thing. I mean, he might

[06:45] have hated Donald Trump for other

[06:46] reasons, but it's hard to see that he

[06:49] took this action any for any other

[06:51] reason other than he wanted to stop

[06:53] Donald Trump from becoming the next

[06:54] president. I mean, he might have been he

[06:56] might have had an agre agrievance with

[06:57] Trump for other past actions that Trump

[07:00] Trump may have taken while he was

[07:01] president the first time. Um, but this

[07:03] is a political assassination and

[07:04] normally those things have that implied

[07:06] motive of you want to stop this person's

[07:08] political ambitions.

[07:10] Well, this is why it's strange because

[07:12] CNN is reporting that investigators have

[07:14] kind of hit a roadblock. They've been

[07:15] looking at his phone. They've been

[07:16] looking at his computer searches.

[07:18] They've uh searched the home. They've

[07:20] interviewed friends, family, and they

[07:21] can't piece together a definitive

[07:23] motive. There's reportedly nothing out

[07:26] of the ordinary. They've they they find

[07:28] an interest in coding and gaming. Um but

[07:31] they can't seem to find any kind of

[07:33] political ideiation, any religious

[07:35] motivation. Nothing no clue that would

[07:38] lead anybody to suspect he was about to

[07:40] do this. Do you find that very unusual

[07:42] to see that?

[07:44] It is. is it is very because like I said

[07:46] along with the implied motivation of a

[07:49] political assassination or attempted

[07:50] assassination um you do normally find a

[07:54] lot of political ideology in the

[07:56] person's lifestyle and his background

[07:58] and his his conversations with people

[08:00] and his associations with people and

[08:02] organizations and so normally this they

[08:04] are ideologues and they are hellbent on

[08:07] carrying out an act of violence in pol a

[08:10] political act of violence. It's normally

[08:11] very apparent from looking at their

[08:13] background. And here they're not finding

[08:15] that. So, you know, there's that, like I

[08:17] said, there's an implied motivation, but

[08:19] it could be, you know, he was just out

[08:21] for fame, but often times we also see

[08:23] indications of that in his background.

[08:25] You know, he wanted to become famous

[08:26] because, you know, he because killing

[08:28] Trump obviously would make him famous.

[08:30] Um, or, you know, because we had like,

[08:32] you know, different motivations. When

[08:33] when Hinckley shot Reagan, it was

[08:35] because of his fascination with Jodie

[08:36] Foster. It would it thought he would

[08:38] maybe be famous. the person that killed

[08:39] John Lennon actually was a big John

[08:41] Lennon fan. So there's sometimes these

[08:43] people have these ideas in their head

[08:45] that this act I'm going to carry out

[08:47] this act and then I would be viewed as

[08:49] this other person or in this way. So you

[08:52] know that's more of a mental health

[08:54] expert question like could he and what

[08:56] is in his background might indicate

[08:58] that. Um but yeah, you're right. I mean,

[09:00] a political motivated attack normally

[09:03] has some kind of he would be more active

[09:06] politically either online or in person

[09:08] and we're just not finding that right

[09:10] now.

[09:10] And it could be that he also potentially

[09:12] had a grudge against other people at the

[09:14] rally because if you take it obviously

[09:16] the number of shots that were fired, the

[09:18] people who were injured, someone who was

[09:20] killed, and if the explosives in the

[09:22] car, which he could potentially have

[09:23] detonated and harmed a lot more people,

[09:25] it's difficult to know who the exact

[09:27] target was or why. But here's the thing.

[09:29] If you were to watch him before this,

[09:31] you'd say something was up with this

[09:33] guy. Why? Because CNN is also reporting

[09:36] that Krooks had visited a shooting range

[09:38] the day before the rally. Apparently, he

[09:40] was a member there. Then goes to a Home

[09:42] Depot where he purchases a ladder. Then

[09:44] goes to a local gun store in Bethl Park,

[09:46] Pennsylvania, buys 50 rounds of

[09:48] ammunition. Apparently drives to the

[09:50] rally in Butler, Pennsylvania. Parks the

[09:53] car. uses the ladder to get to the roof

[09:55] of the adjacent American Glass Research

[09:57] Building, sets up and opens fire. So,

[10:00] Bobby, when we talk about what his

[10:02] motivation was, and we see law

[10:03] enforcement trying to set up a timeline

[10:05] here, what do you take away from that?

[10:08] Well, the young man was very determined.

[10:10] It it clearly he's determined to do to

[10:13] carry out this attack with all of these

[10:14] steps he's taking um this what we call

[10:17] pre-event planning and pre-event

[10:18] activity. Uh which which begs the

[10:21] question on why you're not why we're not

[10:23] seeing more um rhetoric, more

[10:26] associations in his background that

[10:27] would have led somebody to believe that

[10:29] he was going to do this because he's a

[10:31] pretty determined individual as as your

[10:33] description rightly spells out. And so

[10:36] someone that determined is so motivated,

[10:39] it's hard not to think that, you know,

[10:42] you wouldn't see some motivation of that

[10:43] in in other parts of his life, either

[10:45] online or talking to friends or

[10:47] mentioning something to family members.

[10:49] Um, if he was able to keep all of this

[10:51] rage and and carrying a gun to a rooftop

[10:55] and shooting into a crowd, uh, and

[10:57] taking practice practicing the day

[10:59] before, I mean, you are determined.

[11:00] There's a lot of rage there. And and to

[11:02] have that rage not manifest itself in in

[11:05] prior behavior or prior acts or prior

[11:07] discussions is really unusual.

[11:09] At the time of this recording, Bobby, no

[11:12] evidence about how he knew how to make

[11:15] explosive devices. That's not an easy

[11:17] thing. And and again, if they haven't

[11:20] found searches online where he, you

[11:23] know, talk about how to make these

[11:24] devices, I find that weird, too.

[11:27] Yeah, that's the first thing I would

[11:28] think of. Look at a search history. is

[11:29] he searching Google for how to make an

[11:30] IED or something like that? Now, I mean,

[11:32] our guys are digging into it. Our

[11:34] forensic examiners, our computer

[11:35] forensic examiners are good at that. So,

[11:37] you know, if he was able to use, you

[11:39] know, this was a young man. He knows

[11:40] computers. Um, he's of the age that he

[11:42] grew up with them. And so, um, you know,

[11:44] if he was using some kind of, you know,

[11:46] dark web to hide his his search

[11:48] histories and stuff, our guys usually

[11:49] find that stuff. And and so hopefully

[11:52] something like that happens because I

[11:53] don't know where I mean unless you

[11:56] somehow got a hold of a bomb-making

[11:57] manual and I don't know how you do that

[11:59] either. Um obviously stuff's readily

[12:01] available on the internet which leads a

[12:02] trail. Um if you're not finding that

[12:04] trail I don't know how a 20-year-old

[12:07] man young man without prior military

[12:10] training or any kind of training um

[12:12] would know to get those things and how

[12:14] to even crudely assemble them. Again, at

[12:16] the time of this recording, we haven't

[12:17] seen evidence of how he figured out how

[12:19] to do that unless he searched it

[12:20] somewhere else, not on his own devices.

[12:22] But I want you mentioned there's two

[12:23] parts of this, right? So, there's two

[12:24] parts of it. There's um what do we know

[12:27] about the shooter, the suspected

[12:28] shooter, and what do we know about um

[12:31] the shooting itself and why it happened?

[12:32] That's the second part, and that's what

[12:33] I want to talk about because there are a

[12:36] lot of questions. Um and there are a lot

[12:37] of questions that have been put on the

[12:39] Secret Service. The spotlight has been

[12:40] put on the Secret Service. There's an

[12:41] investigation not just by the FBI,

[12:43] Congress, Department of Homeland

[12:45] Security. And the first question is, how

[12:47] was this American glass research

[12:49] building where crooks purportedly shot

[12:52] from? Why was it not secured, Bobby? It

[12:55] had a line of sight to where Trump would

[12:57] be speaking. Isn't there an advanced

[12:59] team to check this out?

[13:02] Done that. And they were probably there

[13:03] on the ground, I don't know, a week or

[13:05] 10 days in advance as the usual. Um and

[13:07] they would have anybody, you know, that

[13:09] does threat assessments would have seen

[13:11] that as a uh vulnerability that high

[13:14] ground um with direct line of sight, not

[13:17] that far a distance. You don't have to

[13:19] be an expert marksman to hit somebody

[13:20] with a rifle from that distance. And so

[13:22] it's really um the million-dollar

[13:24] question is how first of all how the

[13:27] perimeter wasn't set out further. Why

[13:29] that building wasn't part of the inner

[13:30] perimeter that anybody getting to that

[13:31] building would have to go through

[13:33] security checks through the magnetoism.

[13:35] That's the first thing. Why wasn't that

[13:37] included in the outer perimeter? It was

[13:38] a very tight perimeter. And the second

[13:40] is even if it's outside the perimeter

[13:42] and and make no mistake, Secret Service

[13:44] and I've worked with them on different

[13:46] events. They come in and they take I

[13:48] mean what they say goes. When you have a

[13:50] former president or a current president,

[13:51] they are, you know, they don't play well

[13:53] with others. They pretty much set the

[13:55] rules. And if they told local police

[13:57] officers, look, that's outside the

[13:58] perimeter, but we want your guys on top

[14:00] of that because they, you know, they

[14:02] lend resources, then the cops would have

[14:03] had somebody on top of that. Now, what

[14:05] we heard from the Secret Service

[14:06] director, I think in an interview, was

[14:08] that they had people inside the

[14:10] building. They were securing. You don't

[14:11] you don't secure a building from the

[14:13] inside. Not a not a short building like

[14:14] that. And this is not the Texas School

[14:16] Book Depository. So, you can't secure it

[14:18] from the inside. I mean, the the the

[14:20] benefit of that building to any

[14:22] adversary is the high ground, is the

[14:23] roof, and and so you had to have people

[14:25] up there. The fact that it was sloped

[14:27] service or even said it was slope, so

[14:30] there was a safety factor. No, it wasn't

[14:32] slope that much. Number one. number two

[14:33] friends of mine who are snipers. They're

[14:35] trained to get themselves into very

[14:37] uncomfortable situations and stay there

[14:38] for long periods of time.

[14:39] And by the way, the the the Secret

[14:41] Service snipers were on a slope roof

[14:43] that day. So that the question, but

[14:45] here's the thing I don't understand.

[14:46] Wouldn't the shooter have had to have

[14:48] known beforehand where the best position

[14:51] to set up was to kill Donald Trump and

[14:54] had to assume that that building

[14:56] wouldn't be secure. Otherwise, he'd be

[14:58] going and there's no way I'd be able to

[14:59] set up there. I'm sure it's going to be

[15:01] blocked off. I'm sure there's going to

[15:02] be people up there. It was almost as if

[15:04] he knew that was where to set up.

[15:08] Yeah, that's a question that I had and I

[15:09] hope the obviously the investigation is

[15:11] probably looking into that whether or

[15:12] not he did even more pre-event

[15:14] surveillance in was he there when they

[15:16] were doing the survey. Was he there the

[15:17] day or two before so he could see where

[15:19] the perimeter was being set up and he

[15:21] knew that building was outside the

[15:23] security perimeter? So, yes. And the

[15:25] fact that he got a he brought a ladder

[15:27] um leads me to believe that he knew

[15:29] somebody might not be up there and and

[15:31] that's disturbing to me um because that

[15:33] stuff should all that's why it should be

[15:34] inside the security perimeter. That's

[15:36] why that stuff should be remain kind of

[15:38] secretive. Now also I've heard reports

[15:40] that people saw him kind of acting

[15:42] strange outside the magnetometer. So I

[15:44] wonder if he actually had the thought of

[15:46] you know maybe I could get in, maybe I

[15:48] could sneak in. Let's see what kind of

[15:49] security they think. Maybe I can get

[15:50] into the perimeter. And when he realized

[15:52] he couldn't, then went back and

[15:53] retrieved the ladder and maybe this was

[15:55] kind of a backup plan. I don't know.

[15:57] Interesting. Um, I'll get to that in a

[15:58] second. I want to go back to this

[16:00] building in terms of who's securing it

[16:01] because we're getting kind of this

[16:03] everybody's pointing the finger at one

[16:05] another because local was it local law

[16:06] enforcement who was supposed to secure

[16:08] it? Was it Secret Service? And I say

[16:09] that because Secret Service spokesperson

[16:12] Anthony Gugglei said that it was the

[16:14] Butler Township Police Department and

[16:15] the Butler County Sheriff's Office job

[16:17] to secure that building. But the Butler

[16:19] County DA, Richard Goldinger, told NBC

[16:22] News, they had meetings in the week

[16:24] prior. The Secret Service ran the show.

[16:26] They were the ones who designed who did

[16:28] what. In the command hierarchy, they

[16:29] were top. They were number one. To me,

[16:31] the whole thing is under the

[16:32] jurisdiction of the Secret Service, and

[16:34] they will delineate from there. So, who

[16:36] was in charge of securing the building,

[16:37] Bobby? Was it Secret Service or local

[16:39] law enforcement?

[16:40] Well, like like he said, and I agree

[16:42] with him. Secret Service is in in charge

[16:43] of the entire security apparatus, and

[16:45] they they coordinate stuff. So in other

[16:47] words, if they wanted somebody on that

[16:50] roof and they didn't have the manpower,

[16:51] they would have assigned, okay, Butler

[16:53] County or whoever you or state police,

[16:55] whoever, you've got to be on that roof

[16:56] and they would be part of the plan. And

[16:58] what normally you do is before the

[16:59] protectee even arrives on scene, you go

[17:01] down your checklist. Is this done? Is

[17:03] that done? Hey, there's nobody on that

[17:05] roof. This person's supposed to be on

[17:06] the roof. Where are they? That's Secret

[17:08] Service. They should be going down their

[17:09] checklist and going, "Okay, that roof

[17:11] needs to be secured. It's part of the

[17:12] plan. I don't see anybody up there." You

[17:14] have to go. It's like a pilot going

[17:15] through a checklist pre-flight. You go

[17:17] through your checklist and you go down

[17:18] all the vulnerabilities. That roof needs

[17:20] to be covered. There's nobody up there.

[17:22] Where are they? The protectee is not

[17:23] coming out until the the person's on

[17:26] that roof. Now, who is supposed to be on

[17:27] there? I I don't know. But Secret

[17:30] Service certainly was in charge of

[17:31] making sure whoever that was was up

[17:33] there before the protectee comes out.

[17:35] And and even if it's outside the

[17:36] perimeter, shouldn't they keep a careful

[17:39] eye on that building throughout? Right.

[17:41] I mean, the idea of even if it's outside

[17:43] the perimeter, you know, you don't have

[17:44] to go through a magnetometer necessarily

[17:46] to get in there. Shouldn't that be a

[17:48] place where you station at least one

[17:50] person or you have your snipers keep a a

[17:52] central eye on it? I'm sure they're

[17:53] looking past 130, 150 yards. But if

[17:56] that's a building so close, h shouldn't

[17:59] that have been remain a focus?

[18:00] It should. There should been somebody up

[18:02] there, whether it was state police,

[18:03] Butler County, or Secret Service. Secret

[18:04] Service was in charge of making sure

[18:06] somebody was up there, no matter who was

[18:07] supposed to be up there. and and I would

[18:08] like to look at their operational plan

[18:10] and see who they who they assigned to be

[18:12] up there and then prior to the protectee

[18:15] coming on stage why the checklist wasn't

[18:17] looked at and said there's somebody

[18:18] missing up on that roof we need to get

[18:20] somebody on that roof we're not bringing

[18:21] them out until that's done now I think

[18:22] that when you look at the video of the

[18:24] counter sniper who took the shot they're

[18:27] looking in the direction of that

[18:28] building and I'm pretty sure that's

[18:30] because they're hearing radio traffic

[18:31] saying somebody's on the roof because

[18:33] there was some chaotic uh situation over

[18:35] there you saw the video of people saying

[18:37] woman saying he's on roof. He's got a

[18:38] gun. I'm sure that was put over comms.

[18:40] When you look at that roof, it sloped

[18:42] away and I don't think the counter

[18:44] counter sniper guys could actually see

[18:46] the shooter yet. He was crawling up. He

[18:48] was on his belly and he and and then

[18:50] what happened was an officer confronted

[18:53] him and then retreated. He sh he turned

[18:55] around with his rifle towards the

[18:56] officer. What that did was make the guy

[18:58] move quicker. Then he popped up really

[19:00] fast over that peak and started

[19:02] shooting. That's when the guy own the

[19:04] sniper first cuz you see them looking

[19:05] there and they're probably saying, "I

[19:07] see the roof. I don't see anybody. I see

[19:08] the roof. I don't see anybody." That's

[19:10] because he's behind that slight and then

[19:12] he pops up and then he starts firing and

[19:14] then they fire back.

[19:15] Ju just to just to amplify that a little

[19:17] bit and explain what we're talking about

[19:18] because the next question is, you know,

[19:20] Krooks was apparently spotted there.

[19:22] There were reports that he was acting

[19:23] strange near security. There were other

[19:25] accounts that they people saw him with

[19:27] the rifle beforehand. There were others

[19:28] who said they saw him scaling the

[19:30] building, that they alerted law

[19:32] enforcement. In fact, it was being

[19:33] reported that Secret Service was alerted

[19:36] to watch him. And the Butler County

[19:38] Sheriff, Michael Sloop, told CBS News

[19:40] that police were looking for crooks. And

[19:43] they confirmed that an officer scaled

[19:45] the roof. Quote, "All I know is the

[19:46] officer had both hands on the roof to

[19:48] get up on the roof, never made it

[19:50] because the shooter had turned towards

[19:52] the officer, and rightfully smartly the

[19:54] officer let go. I would have done the

[19:57] same thing." Absolutely. I mean, people

[19:58] think the officers are supermen, like

[20:00] you hold on the roof with one hand while

[20:02] you're hanging on for dear life and you

[20:03] pull a gun out. It doesn't work that

[20:05] way. So, Bobby, what's your take on that

[20:07] accus on that new development that, you

[20:10] know, people had apparently seen him?

[20:11] Law enforcement had seen him. He po he

[20:13] allegedly points the gun at a member of

[20:16] law enforcement. Um, was this just

[20:18] rapidly happening too quickly? And, you

[20:21] know, there might have been an alert

[20:22] that someone's there, but like you said,

[20:24] they couldn't figure out where he was.

[20:25] That's the part that I think people find

[20:27] very strange.

[20:28] It is very strange and that should all

[20:30] be taken into account in the operational

[20:33] planning of this thing. And I've been

[20:34] involved in a lot. I was the special

[20:35] events coordinator for the FBI in Los

[20:36] Angeles. We coordinated security for the

[20:38] FBI at the Oscars, the Golden Globes,

[20:40] the Rose Bowl, things like that with

[20:42] LAPD, with Secret Service sometimes. And

[20:44] so what happens, what should have

[20:46] happened [clears throat] is, and it, you

[20:47] know, hopefully they're on the same

[20:48] radio. We had this after 911, the

[20:50] interoperability of radios between fire

[20:52] and police and federal and and stuff.

[20:54] And so normally the minute somebody sees

[20:57] somebody inside, not even close to the

[20:59] perimeter with a gun, the call goes out,

[21:01] gun, gun, gun, and then the protectee

[21:03] gets taken out. So if that would a call

[21:06] would have made if that officer would

[21:07] have been able to get somebody's on the

[21:09] roof with a gun then you take you before

[21:12] any shots are fired before you even see

[21:13] the guy take the protecti out get them

[21:15] to a safe place resolve what that is and

[21:18] maybe you put him back up on stage maybe

[21:20] you don't but but soon as somebody saw

[21:22] somebody with a gun that wasn't

[21:24] accounted for it wasn't the state police

[21:25] wasn't local whatever you didn't know

[21:27] who this person was with a gun all the

[21:29] radio should have went off get the

[21:30] protectee safe and then address whatever

[21:33] that was that wasn't done here. I don't

[21:35] know if it was undone because the timing

[21:37] and like you said it happened very

[21:38] quickly right after that. I don't know

[21:40] what the but we need to, you know, um

[21:42] see the radio transmission logs which

[21:44] are all recorded. We need to match that

[21:46] up with the video. So much video. And

[21:48] you're going to be able to get almost a

[21:50] second by second analysis of who knew

[21:53] what when and why the word didn't go out

[21:56] to get him off the stage the minute they

[21:58] saw somebody with a gun.

[21:59] Bobby, I have one more question for you.

[22:00] We're actually going to dedicate, I

[22:02] think, a separate uh sidebar to this.

[22:03] Um, and it's about how crooks had the

[22:05] weapon, right? So, this AR style rifle,

[22:08] um, apparently, as I mentioned, was

[22:09] purchased by his father, and it was, uh,

[22:12] reportedly more than 20 firearms that

[22:14] were registered to his fh father. They

[22:16] were kept at the family's home. Um,

[22:18] we're trying to understand how he got

[22:19] access to it. And also, I guess the side

[22:23] question is whether or not his father

[22:25] could be legally responsible for what

[22:28] happened. In a similar vein as we've

[22:30] talked about with the Crumbly case, what

[22:32] are your initial impressions on this?

[22:33] And again, I think we're going to

[22:34] explore this on another sidebar, but

[22:36] what are your thoughts on it?

[22:37] Yeah, I mean that's look, that's a lot

[22:39] of guns. You know, the problem with me

[22:41] is not that that people have the guns,

[22:42] it's that they don't know how to secure

[22:44] them or they're not willing to secure

[22:45] them. I know gun safes are expensive and

[22:46] things like that, but I have guns in my

[22:48] house. They're always secured. You have

[22:49] to keep your weapon secured. Now, the

[22:50] father apparently I thought maybe have

[22:52] had this weapon for a number of years.

[22:53] The kid had access to it. There's a lot

[22:55] of hunting in that area. The kid belongs

[22:56] to a gun range. He might have been able

[22:58] to legally buy his own guns. I don't

[23:00] know. So maybe the father lent him guns

[23:01] to go to the range and and he's done

[23:03] that for a number of years. So the

[23:04] father had no idea. You know, the kid

[23:06] goes to the range all the time. Maybe

[23:07] maybe that's part of his hobby. People

[23:09] do sometimes have have that hobby and

[23:11] and so maybe there wasn't and like you

[23:13] we talked about earlier, maybe there

[23:15] wasn't in any indication on the part of

[23:17] the father. you know, the crumbly case,

[23:18] you know, there are cases where the the

[23:20] kid or the person, the child, the

[23:22] parent, um, they know they have some

[23:24] indication that the kid has problems and

[23:26] he should have access to a gun. But

[23:27] here, we're talking about, you know,

[23:28] there may not have been any indication

[23:30] that this 20-year-old man should not be

[23:32] able to bother borrow his father's

[23:34] weapon and go to the range.

[23:36] All right, Bobby, thank you so much for

[23:37] breaking it down for us. We really

[23:39] appreciate it. That's all we have for

[23:40] you here on Sidebar, everybody. Thank

[23:42] you so much for joining us and as

[23:43] always, please subscribe on Apple

[23:44] Podcast, [music] Spotify, YouTube,

[23:46] wherever you get your podcasts. I'm

[23:48] Jesse Weber. Speak to you next time.

[23:51] [music]