Joe Rogan Experience #2148 - Gad Saad

Joe Rogan podcast check it out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day how you doing is it what's going on man good to see you 10th episode crazy unbelievable what are the odds short of your regular crew am I in the yeah you're in the there's very few people that have had 10 episodes It's a small handful for sure I mean that I should put that as the top thing on my CV all the other stuff is [ __ ] 10 time on Joe Rogan dro the mic this is how out of the corporate world I am I don't even know what a CV is I don't know what it stands for I know people say it I know what it means but I don't know what it stands for want me tell you what an academic CV looks like sure what just what does it stand for what C uh curriculum v ah okay uh you basically in Academia you'll start with your education M all your degrees all of your positions that you've held I was assistant professor here from here then than all of your Journal Publications all of your books all of your conference art you know and so on right so it can end up being a pretty beefy CV I think mine is about 47 pages long oh my goodness look at you you accomplished speaking of and and managed to stay logical how did you do that oh you got a new book dropping up dropping on May 14th on happiness sad truth 2 A's about happiness eight secrets for leading a good life enjoy it how how have I been so productive how have you managed to I mean people have gotten annoyed at you but you've you've somehow or another avoided like a full scale cancellation well with your positions it's kind of amazing it really it truly is it's I'm kind of like the Vel is it velcro Dawn the Teflon Teflon Dawn velcro opposite right right uh I'm nothing sticks they've tried to cancel me in all sorts of ways but that speaks by the way to one of the powerful reasons why tenure despite the fact that a lot of people despise the concept of tenure oh it's just a bunch of lazy academics who are going to be Deadwood for the next 30 Years but if I didn't have the protection of tenure I'd be gone long ago now that doesn't mean that I still haven't suffered many consequences right so I haven't gotten other jobs that I would have otherwise gotten because of how irreverent I am you know the death threats so now after October 7th it almost became impossible for me to go on campus Because first of all you know I'm high-profile my university has a particular demographic reality and so there are consequences to speaking out but so you you can't go on campus literally I mean I have gone but during the the points when there were a lot of uh protests outside you know the campus and so on or on campus Because the our campus is an urban campus so it's hard to say where where the school begins and where the the city is uh you know you have death to Jews and the free free Palestine in and from The River To The Sea and there's 800 of them screaming and you're going to come in many of them know who you are they know that I'm not very supportive of their positions and so it's going to be you know a bit challenging so on a few cases i' I did it via Zoom other times I had to have security with me so I would I'd have to check into security and they'd have to walk with me to to class and so on that's not a good thing I'll I'll tell you another quick story if I may about what happened after October 7th so I'll first talk about what happened in Lebanon so the day that we escaped from Lebanon for those of your viewers who don't know about us we're Lebanese Jews we were there until the start of the Civil War we were there in the first year of the Civil War and then we had to leave because it became impossible to be Jewish in Lebanon when we left that day from it was from Beirut to Copenhagen Copenhagen to Montreal as we cleared the airspace of Lebanon the captain I I discussed this in chapter one of my previous book The parasitic mind uh he said okay we're now out of Lebanese airspace and so my I said my wife my mother pulls out a pendulant with the Star of David puts it around me my my neck and says now you can wear this be proud and not hide your identity now that's in the past but now I'm going to link it to the current reality about 3 weeks after October 7th my wife and son came to pick me up from a cafe where I was working on my laptop my my wife had picked up my son who was playing a soccer match in the East End of the city and so as I got into the car he says daddy if you had come to where I was playing soccer today and you were wearing a star of David you'd be dead so 1975 a star of David is put around me and now I can wear it proud 45 years later I better not wear a star of David in Montreal Canada that doesn't B too well at a kids soccer game yeah because the demographic reality in that neighborhood is such that the Star of David would be viewed as provocative incitement what what's crazy to me is regardless of how you feel about how the Israeli military and the Army is pursuing the war in Gaza regardless of that the blatant just out in the open anti semitism that we see today is like nothing I've ever seen before like like roaches coming out of the woodwork like what like you see it all over social media and it's like this if this was September and not October like if this is just you would be you would be shunned everybody would be like this is horrible how the [ __ ] could you say this how you you're openly anti-semitic you're open blaming the Jews for all the world's problem this is crazy this is Nazi [ __ ] and yet you're seeing it everywhere now when those teachers were in front of Congress one of those principles of those universities were in front of Congress and they were saying that it's not harassment to say death to the Jews unless it's actionable yeah which is the craziest mental verbal gymnastics I have ever heard anyone say that's in that position the position of being the head of Harvard it was so crazy to watch it's so crazy to see it's almost like we live in an alternative timeline like we entered into a new dimension like in our sleep we woke up but we're in a new place you know nothing should surprise me given the history that I have growing up in the Middle East but I was taken aback after October 7th at the jew hatred that I was exposed to now my positions are really not inflammatory so for example I'll say things like uh you know I'm I'm worried about my I have a lot of extended family in Israel right so after the October 7th happened for me to just kind of call around to make sure that none of my cousins and their children and aunts and so no one was harmed will take a while well that itself the fact that I cared about my family was incitement was I'm a Zionist I'm a baby killer right I am personally responsible for the IDF killing any innocent and children but it's not just that it's coming at you from all directions so in the past you could say Okay Islamic sources are going to send you Jew hatred and I'm used to that you could say the Neo-Nazi altright types you know Jews will not replace us they're coming after me you've got of course the academic Progressive left types who are also anti-zionists which is just cold sweet word for anti-jewish and so everywhere you turn there is Jew hatred and it's so normalized now of course in part it is emboldened by the fact that a lot of them are Anonymous they don't put their real names so they can take the Liberty to be this orgiastic you know Jew hater but it just it it it's so disenchanting to see that that guy could be my Gardener he could be my surgeon he could be my dentist I don't know who he is but there are millions of those folks who hold those beliefs it's unbelievable I think a lot of them are fake as well I think a lot of them are Russian and Chinese trolls I think there's a disturb in amount of them that's responsible for uh taking this kind of discourse and and pushing it to a much higher level and and making it more ubiquitous I I really really believe that and there's a lot of data to support that and I think that's part of what's going on with social media it's definitely a big part of what's going on with Twitter and Tik Tok and a lot of these things where you see these very inflammatory messages that seem to be pushed they're they're they're they're pushed through and promoted and like to the fact that you get them all the time they they they show up in your feed all the time even if you're not subscrib to these even if you're not following these people you'll find this disturbing content will show up in your feed and I really firmly believe that we're being manipulated I really do and I think there's a lot of these young kids that are on these campuses that are very malleable they're very easily influenced and they don't need they don't I mean so many I'm sure you've seen Constantine kissen from trigonometry he's done these interviews with these people these protests and so many of them are completely ignorant they have no idea what they're just doing it because they think they're a good person they're putting up their flag of virtue by saying free Palestine from The River To The Sea and they don't even know what that means like what do you do you know what you're saying you're saying you're saying wipe out Israel is that what you're saying not only that in a lot of cases they're supporting regimes or ideologies that would be per perfectly antithetical to their main identity so for Palestine chickens for Kentucky Fried Chicken or I like to use geese for f because I'm from Montreal uh I mean imagine if you present yourself to the world with your queer identity which is great good for you and now you decide okay let me see should I be supporting Tel Aviv which is one of the most queer friendly places I mean short of Montreal New York San Francisco T Aviv is right up there so you would think that if my key identity my def definition identity is my queerness that I'm certainly putting all my chips with Tel Aviv no it's with queers for Palestine so that's exactly what parasitic thinking is right yeah and I think I really do think that's supported by other countries I think they they realize how vulnerable and idiotic a lot of Americans are and they're just pushing that and to whether you realize it or not social media even if they're saying something ridiculous it's very influential and they can just move the boundaries a little bit by having the most extreme content the most ridiculous things be so common then less extreme content that would ordinarily be considered ridiculous now becomes accepted as normalized yeah yeah which is what you're seeing yeah exactly uh can I point I mean you alluded to it earlier about you know what the IDF might be doing can I just mention a few things about that sure and I'm hardly the spokesperson of the IDF but just it's an idea that been toying with and I'll pitch it here for the first time so you know this notion of equality of opportunities versus equality of outcomes typically we we we link it to all of the woke stuff right so equality of opportunities is great equality of outcomes is a is a cancer to to human dignity okay let's now apply that concept equality of outcomes to War casualties so I think this is what happens when people say oh but the IDF is being grotesque because the currency that then matters becomes how many dead on each side equality of outcome but let me change it to a different moral currency okay let's talk about intent so for example in in this in the uh justice system you could have a person who is found guilty of involuntarily vehicle vehicular homicide and he kills four people okay so four are dead so that's equality of outcome forward died versus someone who took out a hit on his entire family his his brother sister and parents so that he can g w win the insurance money but it's an undercover operation the cops catch you even though in that case there were zero killed correct that person will get a higher sentence because we understand in the law that intent matters so now I think you know where I'm going with the analogy so in the Palestinian IDF conflict when say Hamas launches 6,000 Rockets every single one of which is intercepted by by the Iron Dome had they not had the Iron Dome then the the outcome could have been that 50,000 would have been killed right in an Ideal World from hamas's perspective our intent would be to eradicate every last je they have it in their Charter so yes it is true that if we just count the number of people who were killed on October 7th versus the number who were killed in the retaliation if that's the only calculus that matters then oh yes the IDF has gone way overboard but once you change it to an existential intent issue then maybe it's not such a as bad of an outcome as as you think notwithstanding that a single innocent dead is a tragedy that's you could say it that way but the problem with that is the Iron Dome does exist and hamas's Military capabilities are far below Israel's it it would be like if uh some small person tried to punch me and I moved out of the way and then beat them to death and I said no I had to defend myself I beat them to death but I didn't have to beat them to death they're this small person if even if they hit me it wouldn't really hurt me right it's not there you know what I'm saying like defensively I'm not worried about a real small person that doesn't know how to fight who throws a punch at me so what would what would be in your moral calculus the ideal outcome that should have happened as a retaliation to October 7th that's a very good question obviously I'm not a military analyst uh if I was you know you you do have to take in consideration the tunnels you do have to take into consideration the infrastructure the question is did they just knowingly bomb places where there was going to be hundreds and hundreds of innocent civilians knowing that there's going to be a few Hamas yeah and that's what scares people what scares people is that someone is willing to kill women and children just to get at bad guys and they just say that's just part of the game that that that seems horrific in the 2024 understanding of human life and morality and just the horrors of war that you know they're blowing up mosques they're blowing up Schools they're blowing up apartment buildings everything anything where they think Hamas is so again let me preface and and I shouldn't have to say this that a single person killed that's innocent is a tragedy of course but compare that reality to almost any other war that you have in working memory why is there a unique unbelievably high threshold of morality that is placed on the Israeli Nation right now you probably already know this the IDF does go through a lot of painstaking effort to try to minimize that right they drop leaflets in Arabic they even sometimes call people in Arabic and say don't go in this area they hold so of course they've killed many many innocent people but they're placed between a rock and a heart place what what what can you do right the other side knows exactly that if they do exactly how what they're doing uh either you don't retaliate and we win or you retaliate very harshly as they have and then you still win right today the propaganda War has been completely won by Hamas right there's a complete genocide in the informational war against the IDF right one other point and then I'll see the floor back to you this the term genocide Jac DEA was a very famous uh postmodernist who developed the field of deconstructionism language creates reality right he was one of the guys who allowed the the ecosystem of Up Is Down men could be women left is Right slavery is freedom right it's that postmodernist game that allows these kind of insane ideas to flourish well when you misuse words like everything is a genocide that's that does that does no one service there is no genocide there is a a killing of a lot of people again every single one killed is a tragedy but if Israel wanted to commit a genocide by the end of my appearing on this 10th time on this show there wouldn't be a single Palestinian left so if they were genocidal in their intent then they really are shitty genocidal Maniacs because first of all uh the population as you know of uh the Palestinian territories has gone up uh fivefolds right so that's really suaki genocide and they've killed depending on the count right but that's all previous to this this military action that's going on now what are the numbers the you know of right now it's hard to say you know I mean Israel has one statistic and then there's other statistics by human rights organizations that it estimate at least 12,000 missing in the rubble that are probably dead and 30,000 dead now at the the number of those 30,000 what percentage is Hamas I'm not sure so I've heard that the the the most favorable estimates to to the IDF are about 1:1 ratio the less estimate it's about 1: 1.5 okay one to up to one to two so if they so if they killed 30,000 people 15,000 are Hamas is that what you're saying that would be best case scenario one to one would be 15,000 to 15,000 and then you can take it from there right okay okay so or one to one one to one half of them so half so half of 30 is 15 exactly okay right so now let's compare it to and I don't know if others have made this analogy when when you dropped the bomb the atomic bomb almost all the people who were killed were non-combatants right so then that ratio would be 250,000 killed to zero I mean unless there's a few Japanese military guys that were in Nagasaki or Hiroshima you dropped and again I'm not I'm not trying to say oh but they're not as bad as these other guys so they're okay let's give them a ribbon and a metal but again it's it is anti-Semitic when you Place one group of people to a standard of morality that is not expected of anybody else so for example if you really care about Arab lives then you certainly should care about all of the yemenis that have been killed that are a lot more than whatever's happened in after October 7th you would care about the 500,000 syrians that were killed you would care about the war between Iran and Iraq that led to several million killed and on how about in Lebanese Civil War $150,000 died and right but that's not happening currently so people aren't totally aware of that like just those statistics that you brought up the Lebanese deaths just just most people are not aware of that most people that are discussing this especially college kids are not aware of that that's why I'm here yeah I mean it's all ugly it's all awful it's there's nothing that you could say that is in any way shape or form positive about any of this yeah the the question is is there another way to do it other than just bombing these are where you know Hamas is and civilians there is another way but I don't think it'll happen can I share it yeah so Golda Mayer Who was the fourth or fifth uh prime minister of Israel from I think 1969 to 1974 has two quotes which I'm going to paraphrase I don't have the exact quote she said if the if the Jews put down their arms uh there'll be a genocide if the Palestinians put down their arms there'll be peace so just remember that for a second second one is if the Arabs and she means in this case the Palestinian Arabs if they were to uh love their children more than they hate ours then they'd be peace so why am I saying these two quotes because this battle is really not about land and and in a sense we've already addressed this on previous shows where I've come and discussed about some of these Islamic issues it is an existential affront that the Jewish States state exists in the Middle East so look at all other religious minorities across Arabia Egypt used to be completely Coptic Christian 100% many hundred years ago today there are 10% cops left what happened to those cops there used to be tons of Christians in Syria what happened to those syrians there used to be tons of Christians in Lebanon there still are some about 30 35% but it's Lebanon used to be a majority Christian country so the goal of Islam not individual Muslims right again I don't need to preface by saying they are are millions and millions of lovely kind peaceful Muslims of course there is but Islam as an ideology does it tolerate others well we have 1,400 years of history that either says it does or it doesn't right we don't have to watch Tik Tok videos and nothing could be clearer than what the words of Muhammad were the prophet of Islam who said that you need to rid Arabia of Christians but certainly the Jews so the existence of the land of Israel is an affront to that one more point I'll see the floor back to you in Islam there's a concept called Islam and that means the house of Islam and the house of War anything that's under the Islamic control is good anything that's yet to be under Islamic control is under the house of War once a territory is under Islamic control and you lose it you have to get it back it is your Dominion Forever This is why for example under under Lucia which was at one point controlled which is in current Spain which was controlled by the Moors in Islamic con conistor uh a lot of jihadists will say inshallah we have to reconquer Andalucia it is our land because once it's under so Israel existentially cannot exist so why am I saying all this you can't have peace if you have the other side that truly never wants for you to exist that's the bottom line if you can change people's heart where they say look I get a piece of land you get another piece let's build an incredible vibrant co-s Society together you'd have peace but if you're taught from straight out of the womb that the Jews is the reason for every Calamity in the world you're not going to have peace but don't you think that there are Jews and there are Israelis that treat Palestinians as if they're less there there is that in in Texas in terms of treating people who are Hispanic the darkness of the human heart is not monopolized by one group they are super nasty Jews and they are incredibly lovely and kind Jews they are super nice Muslims and Incredibly brutal Muslims so there is no Monopoly on the darkness of the human heart so I can see that of course there are Jews that are not very keen on having Palestinian neighbors but as someone who grew up in the Two Worlds right I'm an Arabic speaking Jew I hang around with tons of Muslims I hang around with tons of Jews have I ever ever heard somebody in my Jewish Family say oh God I can't wait for us to eradicate the 1.52 billion Muslims in the world I've never heard that have I heard incessantly all the time about inshallah we'll get rid of the Jews every second you just have to say hi Ahmed the next line is godamn it we got to get rid of the Jews now it's it's become a lot is it really that common where you are it it's as common as the heat in Texas it is definitional as a matter of fact I introduced the game I mean factiously but I mean it seriously Six Degrees of Jew so that that's a play on Six Degrees of Kev bacon exactly so I give you a Calamity in the world and you've got up to six causal steps to blame the Jew so an Amazonian frog just died in the Amazon go and so I will post these on Twitter and people give answers now often times they just playing along but that's the mindset you got diabetes Well that's because the Jews who are controlling the pharmaceutical industry are not releasing the drug I'll give you an a recent one that I faed so I put up a uh police lineup of some guys that had been caught in huttersfield which is a town in England who had been grooming and raping young British white girls and you may or may not know this I'm not sure if we've discussed in the past in in Britain over the past 25 years there's been an unbelievable industrial scale level level grooming and raping of young white girls by Asian men that's a euphemism for men of a certain religious Heritage but you say it's they're Asian so their names are let me summarize them for you Muhammad Ahmed Muhammad Ahmed Muhammad Muhammad Muhammad Ahmed Ahmed Muhammad Ahmed Ahmed Muhammad Ahmed Muhammad okay so I put those up and I sarcastically said I'm I don't have a big enough brain to do the big data analytics to understand what is the commonality across all those gentlemen could anybody help me do you know how many people wrote to me and blamed it on the Jews not factiously so now I'm going to ask you Joe on how I was just going to ask you that how is it when three muhammads rape your 12-year-old British girl you blame it on mordi three muhammads lead to Mori tell me how you tell me I don't know how do they do it who let them in it's the Jewish cabal who control immigration policy it's George Soros the Jew who controls the open Society ideology I don't think you could really just connect George Soros to Jewish if you look at his policies he seems anti-western civilization I agree but for the for the Jew hater any any causal explanation so one individual who just happens to be Jewish or they point to some other one there's one I I never I don't even know who she is I think Barbara larner or something somebody will correct Us in the comment section where they show her saying something oh you know we need to flood and she happens to be Jewish but for every Jewish person who is Pro open door policy there's a counter Jewish person here is one who is not for open border policies right stepen Miller who worked in the Trump Administration is Jewish he's probably the biggest anti-open door immigration so but that's the mindset of the Jew Hatter everything is blamed there's this incredible diabolical feature of the Jew that they're able to at times pretend that they're victims but really diabolical and genocidal it's grotesque man it's weird it's just weird that it it came became so out in the open and that's what makes me think that they're being influenced I just I just can't imagine there was that much anti-Semitism before October 7 but why why like the influences coming for what purpose just to se create Havoc yes yeah to keep people out each other's throats I I really think so and also to completely screw up democracy you know like people have lost all their faith in in voting you know they've lost all their faith in the money behind politics and and the influence behind politics and the more this stuff just gets brought up the more chaos there is the the more hatred there is the more divide there is yeah even amongst the Democratic party right which we talked about the other day that like some large number we think it's around 70% of Jewish people vote Democrat but now you know the Democratic party is full on with this Palestine thing and you know you see it on colge campuses this rampant anti-Semitism death to the Jews being tolerated like L literally saying that yelling it out and by the way you can go back so I wouldn't be able to tell you which number which episode but you can go back to earlier episodes that have appeared on this glorious podcast where you will see that I would have predicted exactly what we're seeing now and it's not because I'm a prophet or it's not because I'm so intelligent it's because you simply have to have the the power of having the imagination to extrapolate from a current Trend to some future and and outcome right so if you let in into your country people who have genocidal Jew hatred as an endemic feature of their society so I'll give you since people love stats so there was a pew pew is a nonpartisan if anything they probably lean towards being more woke so Pew has these Global surveys that they conduct so in 2010 they conducted a survey looking at uh your your how favorable are you towards the Jews across a whole bunch of Islamic countries now if you were to if I were to tell you that 10% of the PED people exhibited you know Jew hatred you'd say oh boy that's a big number 10% is a lot okay how about if I tell you that for most of those ped countries it was between 95 to 99% so let me I I I know people understand what 95 to 99 means if I pull 100 people 95 to 99 9 will Express very problematic Jew hatred okay so now if I let in a 100,000 such people into the country it doesn't take a fancy evolutionary psychologist and a professor with a 47 page uh academic CV to say well probably Jew hatred is going to go up so that's what we're seeing now we're seeing the outcome of having an immigration policy that has let in people that don't share our foundational values again this doesn't mean so someone is going to write in the comment section what a hypocrite you're an immigrant Gad well there are immigrants and there are immigrants there are tons of Muslims who want to come in here and leave all that baggage at the door they want nothing to do with that they just want to live the American Experience the problem is we don't have the machine that can look into your heart and mind right so it's a statistical game so if you're going to let in hundreds I mean look what's happening in Germany look what's happening in France look what's happening in Denmark well let me ask you this why do you think that stuff is happening why do you think there's this Mass immigration so that's that's a great question so it's it it's covered partly in parasitic mind my earlier book and in my next book which I call suicidal empathy right so empathy is a emotion that has evolved for very clear evolutionary reasons so just like any of our other emotions for example Envy there there are evolutionary reasons why we've evolved the emotion of Envy right it can compel us forward I see that Joe's doing well Keeping Up With the Jones maybe it'll get me off my fat ass so I can work harder so there are very clear evolutionary reasons why empathy exists but the problem is when empathy misfires it either becomes hyperactive or it misfires in in directing the empathy to the wrong person so for example uh illegal immigrants more important than American vets right uh and I can show you many public policies where you have these insane policies all of which are due to suicidal empathy so to answer your question I think that the Western mind is we are kind tolerant compassionate empathetic people there are people out there they Guatemalan they're uh Honduran they yemeni who don't have it as well as we do wouldn't it be nice if we open up our doors so the reflex is a noble one it's a nice one but it exists in unicornia the real world doesn't operate that way if you let in people that have a huge hatred of homosexual it are you going to have an increase in homophobia in your country or a decrease right so so I think that's the the answer the answer is misdirected empathy across the West is it really that simple because it seems like it's happened so rapidly that it it seems like a plan like a plan to create more chaos it's it's happened the the Border policy in America is puzzling it's very it's baffling because it seems like there's a plan the flood that country so it's a it's a sort of a conspiratorial kind of cabal this seems like there's something going on that's allowing it to happen even though everyone recognizes it's a problem and it's solvable but they don't solve it in fact they the the United States government is actively tried to stop Texas from enforcing yeah their border so what but I think that's just so I've often tweeted that the most dangerous weapon in in human context is a parasitized mind right I mean a bomb is dangerous but it is it is the human mind that activates that bomb right it it's a guy with a little mustache that said that Jews are the real problem of the world and I need to get rid of the world if that parasite right so parasitic thinking I mean the one of the reasons I think that that book did so well is because it really explained how all of these parasitic ideas came to a head together and they were all spawned on University campuses over the past 40 to 80 years so one one hypothesis is what you said which is there is kind of a grand scheme that's willfully doing this another one is that all of the western leaders of roughly the same age I mean within 20 years of each other are all a product of a western education University education that was completely infected with these Dreadful parasitic ideas so that when these leaders go out there and have the power to enact policies they enact these policies so my view is slightly different from yours in that I don't think that there is a Supra Mega you know willful uh plan it's just that all of those Western leaders are the product of a really shitty University system H right but there's obviously two schools of thought right there's the leftwing school of thought and the right-wing school of thought in regards to this the right-wing school of thought wants to seal our borders wants to secure the borders wants to stop illegal immigr the leftwing wants I mean I don't know what they want because they they start talking about border policies being a problem as well and they start talking about the issue at the border and they try to blame Trump for the issues at the border which is always hilarious but they're just so with that kind of stuff with blaming like when Biden blames Trump for things that he clearly did it's just gaslighting right and it's just it just shows you how little respect they have for people's ability to understand what's actually going on well look suicidal empathy I mean we could move Beyond The Border how about say in the justice system suicidal empathy results in you caring more about the perpetrator than the victim that's suicidal empathy right because that argument so here's how the that leftist argument works if a person especially a criminal of color commits a crime that's probably because he grew up as a person of color so he's already been marginalized by the society so now he commits a crime you're now double whamming him by putting him in the penal system so you need to be more caring so he's already got 57 previous arrests let's give him a 58th chance so again I don't think it comes from it comes from really parasitized thinking right right but that those policies are supported by George Soros specifically and mean he actively goes after Da that have the most lenient and ridiculous policies in regards to no cash bailes releasing violent criminals like that seems like that's done on purpose that's done with intent but it's done on purpose so I think where where we may defer is you think it's because there is a duplicitous evil let's cause Havoc whereas I think they actually believe that that's the noble position right and there should be no borders there is no illegal human what kind of [ __ ] is this I mean why do you have a lock on your door right so why is it that I get to have sex with my beautiful wife but all these homeless guys are sexually that's not fair that's the parasitism of socialism we're all equal why do you make a lot more money than I do Joel that's not fair I need to have as much money as you right so I don't think I mean I hope that it's not what what what you what you're saying is true because then that's even more Sinister right that there's kind of a boohoohoo I just think it's people who are misguided in their misdirected nobility right I think it's both you think it's both yeah yeah I think it's both maybe it's both yeah I think uh there's definitely a lot of misguided people but I think there's definitely a plan it just it's too organized the The Da system the the the da thing with funding the far- leftist Das and then funding someone who opposes them who's even more ridiculous that that seems to be a plan yeah and he's got a pattern of that and he seems to enjoy it enjoy spending his money in that way I think he enjoys it I think it's like this crazy game right what do you think about what's going on with uh your boyfriend Trump these days what oh the the trials fascinating you know I had Mike Baker on who was formerly a CIA operative formerly mhm um but we were we were talking about that that no one's ever been charged for something like that before no one's ever been prosecuted for something like that before certainly no political opponents and my my thing is the danger the people that are on the left that don't understand that now you set a president you set a terrible president and if Trump does get in office what does it stop him from going after all of his political enemies in the same exact way are we going to do this now every time someone's in a position of power whether it's a governor or whether it's a president or what have you when they have a political opponent they they will hire people to go after that political opponent and Trump up a bunch Trump up no pun intended a bunch of [ __ ] charges and drag them through the court so that everybody's the people that only have a peripheral understanding what's going on oh my God he's a criminal keep that criminal out of the White House like okay do you think a lot lot of people who historically had been against Trump are now honest enough to see what a sham this whole thing is and are revising their positions or do you think there's quite a few yes really yeah but it takes a lot of Bravery to do that and it depending upon your social environment you know there's a lot of people that just can't step outside the lines of whatever the ideology their neighborhood is attached to and their Community is attached to the the reason why I ask the question is because I I recently appeared maybe about five six months ago on a British psychiatrist show a small show but I thought he was a really interesting guy he wanted to talk about how you apply Evolution and Psychiatry and so on so I was like let's do it at towards the end of the show or maybe it was even the last question he he said in your 30-year career as a behavioral scientist as a professor what is the singular human phenomena that has surprised you the most which I thought was an amazing question i' had never been asked before question yeah it's amazing one because you know I've seen tons of stuff and so I paused for a moment and then I said I think it's the inability of people to change their opinions once they are anchored in a position yes and so that so it wasn't that spirit that I was asking you the question have some because in my experience despite the fact that I have a chapter in the parasitic mind on how to seek truth and therefore I'm offering a vaccine against falsehoods I'm actually quite pessimistic for some people who go la la la I don't want to hear it because they're so anchored there's no amount of evidence that I could ever show you that can move you a millimeter from your position that's very disheartening it's very disheartening it's very foolish I always try to tell people do not be married to your ideas you you should not connect them to you they are just ideas they are not you and if you have supported an idea that you find to be false and you are afraid to admit that you were incorrect that is far more weak than being incorrect because now you know that you were incorrect but your pride is keeping you from admitting it that is beyond foolish and now people will always know that you're going to do that with what people will forgive you if you make mistakes people will forgive you if you're incorrect we we have all made mistakes we are all occasionally incorrect I'm incorrect all the time but I make a big point of not attaching myself to ideas I will argue them if think they are correct but they are not me yeah you know Patrice O'Neal had a great quote and he said um you could hold your opinions but don't let your opinions hold you right beautiful yeah yeah you just you got to know that you're not ideas you're a human being and it's a challenge when you are faced with the reality of the fact that you've made an error especially if you've been bold about it if you've been condescending to people who disagree with it if you're egotistical in your position you connected yourself to righteousness and intellect and Science and whatever other words you want to throw around to make your opinion more valid than the other people's opin and then you find out you were wrong right okay it if we are ever going to trust you again you have to tell us why you were wrong how you were wrong and what that feels like and what you've learned from this cuz if you don't if you keep arguing that you keep doing it now we have no respect for youou all we know Fouch is the worst but he's worse than that I think he's far worse than that I think he's deceptive I mean if the real Anthony fouchy the book by Robert F Kennedy Jr is not if it's not accurate he would be sued he would be sued right and just for forget about what happened during Co just what we know took place during the AIDS crisis everyone should read that book everyone should understand this same game plan was played out during the AIDS crisis and it's a game plan where they're in cahoots with the pharmaceutical drug companies and they push this thing as being the only remedy and this is how and they make tremendous amounts of money and that's all real this is not tin foil hat conspiracy wearing [ __ ] that's real but if you supported him because you thought that he was the science and then over time you have realized that oh my God they did work with Peter Datsik they did fund through another organization gain a function research he did lie about it it was talked about in emails he did contact people who were saying one thing and had them change their position he did they did ridicule the lab leak Theory when they knew it to be correct they knew it they knew they were doing the exact same research on the exact same viruses in that exact same place where it broke out they knew it right and they lied because they wanted to cover their ass and we let him get away with it yeah I'm glad we're talking about the inability to admit to a wrong doing in science because often times when you think about people who are anchored in their positions you think about political arguments you think that somehow you romanticize scientists as being unbiased purveyors and pursuers of the truth and nothing could be further from from the truth so I'll give you just a couple of examples historical examples I mean of course Galileo is a perfect example Copernicus is a great example uh Darwin is a great example but let's look at some other ones that people may not be familiar with so I think his name I don't know not sure how you pronounce it semil Weiss he was the gentleman who arguably has saved more people than anybody else in medicine do you have any idea who it is no is he the penicillin guy not the penell that's um what's his name sir Fleming I think that's Fleming he's I think he was a Scottish um uh physician if I'm not mistaken no this guy is the gentleman who uh told other Physicians that they should oh wash their hands wash their hands so do you remember he was a I think he was Hungarian uh physician who was noticing that a lot of there was this huge mortality rate of women as they were giving birth and so he started running these naturally occurring experiments where you either so the The Physician has just worked on a cadaver and then goes and does the obstet obstetrics so when he said wash your hands he he he died I think penniless death Institute in a mental Asylum or something right and then later people said oops he was right right CU they didn't understand bacteria back they didn't understand what yeah that guy that's it semi wise exactly cadic particles does that mean kadav every case of childhood fever was caused by resorption of cadav particles oh my God but the blowback against this guy from the senior Physicians I mean this guy was destitute he died completely uh unvalidated I mean it was only post Hawk that he there you go nervous breakdown allegedly suffered a nervous breakdown was committed to an asylum by his colleagues in the Asylum he was beaten by the guards oh God it's incredible story here here's another one I don't remember his name the the truth tester Jamie will get it out for us there's a gentleman who won the Nobel Prize I I'd say in the last 20 or 30 years for arguing that ulcers are caused by a particular virus or I don't know if it's a virus or a bacterium and everybody laughed him out of town he ended up winning the Nobel Prize and so I often joke with my students I say if people laugh at your ideas and fight them it's either for one of two reasons it's a really shitty idea and it's it's worthy of that division or prepare to go to Stockholm to win the Nobel Prize because I mean literally right it's one or the other it's one or the other because the Nobel Prize is nothing but a history of people saying what a quack this [ __ ] is no way oops here's your Nobel Prize doctor and isn't that because of what we talk about because of ego and that ego being connected to your ideas if someone comes along with a revolutionary idea that's contrary to what you currently believe you take it as an a front to yourself exactly it's horrible so I so I give a talk this is going back to some of my early appearances here where we would talk a lot more evolutionary psychology I gave a talk at uh two talks at University of Michigan when my first book came out it was an academic book evolutionary basis of consumption how do you apply evolutionary psychology in human behavior in general consumer behavior in particular I give the talk in the psychology department on a Thursday and everybody's like oh yeah this is gorgeous because a lot of the psychologists were trained in physiological psychology biological psychology and so on so they they were totally appreciative of the fact that you can't really study human behavior without understanding the biological signatures of human behavior okay then I go to the business school the next day raw School of Business I give the the exact same talk okay I couldn't finish a single sentence because all of the professors and it was usually the professor it wasn't the doctoral students who were because the doctoral students are still malleable their brains are still being formed they're happy to listen it's the senior Professor who has spent 30 years arguing that human minds are born tabula Raza empty slated and it's only socialization that teaches the consumer to be how he or she is that they were really offended by my stuff so they would constantly interrupt me berate me and I remember as a as a side personal note my wife was in the audience that day she had come with me and prior to that talk she had said oh I I feel really sick I probably have food poisoning we later find out found out that she was pregnant with our first daughter so there's both a really bad memory and a really good memory associated with the University of Michigan so what was their position when you were saying this uh biology does not we so they were interrupting you non-stop I I probably got through so let's say I don't remember the the number let's say I had 30 slides I maybe got to slide 10 because so here's first question oh if if everything is due to evolutionary pressures how do you explain homosexuality then if everything is due to survival Instinct how do you explain uh suicide then by by the way there are evolutionary explanations for suicide and homosexuality right uh humans are a sexually reproducing species even though chased monks exist right uh people do have a survival Instinct even though some people commit suicide uh men are taller than women even though your Aunt Julie is taller than your Uncle Bob so what happens with with people in terms of a cognitive obstacle they take a singular datum as proof that a statement that is true at the population level has been violated it it hasn't right every single WNBA player is taller than most men that does not invalidate the fact that men are taller than women so all of the morons in the in at the University of Michigan were also coming to that kind of stuff right uh because they didn't like the idea to our earlier discussions that we've had on the show a lot of people don't like the idea that we are biologically determined they think that that's a form of you're just an executor of your genes but that's a wrong view by the way because everything is an interaction between your genes and the environment right even specific genes get turned on as a function of the environment so the fact that you believe that we have biological imperatives that guide our Behavior doesn't make us blind execute our jeans right and that's what's important but the idea that everyone is born a blank slate is so silly because there's children that don't even grow up with their parents that have traits that their parents have no kidding and also happen to be have talents that their parents have for some strange reason and called their dog the same name I mean there's a lot of weirdness to it there's a lot of weirdness to memory like genetic memory like whoever you are it's not as simple as you were a baby you started off clear and blank that that's not real we learn things somehow or another through some under I guess it's explored but not quite understood process yeah and this process even encourages things like racism there's there's even detrimental ideas that are inherited through children right that have been proven but they don't know exactly this the mechanism right so I cuz you mention memory so maybe I could talk about how you study memory from an evolutionary perspective please so is that where can I ask you this before you start do you think that's where like idop obia and Arachnophobia and things like that come from yeah so there is actually a lot of research looking at the evolutionary roots of phobia that's studied in evolutionary Clinical Psychology and in darwinian Psychiatry but the the ones for me that are fascinating are idop phobia and Arachnophobia fear of snakes and fear of spiders because that evolutionarily makes sense if you either got bit and survived or you saw someone get bit or you you know and you see a spider and you're like oh [ __ ] but that's why by the way you don't go see your clinical psychologist because you have a fear of guns or fears of cars even though cars and guns kill a lot more people spiders exactly if if you go if you study the manifestations of clinical cases of phobia they're exactly what you're saying because you know from doing Fear Factor we would encounter people that had both of those and man when you see it in real life it's like a person's possessed by a demon right it's crazy when you see like high level of actually I I don't think it's at the clinical level but in in the parasitic mind in chapter one I talk about the maladaptive or maybe adapt of phobia that I have of mosquitoes so if if so early in in my marriage to my wife maybe that was one of the best ways to test if she'd she'd go the the whole route with me is we were traveling to Antiga and we had The Misfortune of some you know it's in the Caribbeans there a lot of mosquitoes and there a couple of mosquitoes got in I spent with her with with her complete patience probably till 2:00 in the morning tracking and killing every single mosquito in that uh condo because the thought of that disgusting monstrous pig sucking the blood out of me was just unbearable and so I I mean I literally will turn into a little girl if we see a mosquito in the house I cannot go on with my I can't watch TV I can't train the mosquito must die now in a sense that's perfectly uh adaptive because we know that by far if you add up the tallies of people killed by mosquitoes versus all other animals combin it's not even a minuscule there's not another thing that kills people as much as mosquitoes right so that's perfectly adaptive um but do you want me to go to the memory stuff sure so think about say a squirrel it has evolved a memory that allows it to remember the spatial location in your backyard where Ito stes caches of food so that it has its own memory bias so that even though it won't detect it by smell because let's say in Montreal it's under 4 feet of snow it has a mental map so that it perfectly knows where it hid everything right now the human memory has evolved to solve different problems so then if you are a memory researcher studying memory from an evolutionary perspective you would say well what would the human memory solve as an Adaptive problem so let me give you one such example so if I show you a bunch of photos of people okay images of faces and I put a descriptor next to each one where I tag that person as a social cheater or not a cheater so what does social cheating means lack of reciprocation so if I do something for you then you will cheat and recant and not I scratch your back but you'll never scratch right right right now that information about the personal characteristic of that individual is it evolutionarily important uh datum right so now I'm going to show you all these people I control for their good looks right so I don't put all of the cheaters as being good-looking and all the right because then then you might remember them because they were good-looking not because they were cheaters right so I put this array of faces and then later I ask you to remember whether you'd seen that face or not and people end up remembering at a much higher level any face that had been tagged as being a social cheater do you follow Therefore your your perceptual system works and Cahoots with your memory system to pay attention more to information that is evolutionarily relevant so that I'm more likely to recall it and remember it so that would be an example of how you would apply The evolutionary lens to study how our memory operates here here's another example not in the case of social dynamics but in the case of remembering where Foods is so if you ask people to go through a a maze of food and then ask them to remember where particular foods are they're much more likely to remember the locations of high calorie foods so in this case in this case it's not that I have a domain General mechanism that just learns where things are there is a sensorial bias to me being more likely to remember the location of something if it is evolutionary relevant and there are many many other such examples so that would be a a wonderful demonstration of how the evolutionary lens adds a whole layer of explanatory power to what typically memory researchers have done which is usually they study memory as just a domain General mechanistic system whereas The evolutionary psychologist says no no but why did that mechanism evolve to be of that form right and why do animals have memories even if they're not growing up with their parents what how do they know to pee on fire hydrants exactly right where are they getting this from there's something going on there you know how do they know to go after certain animals like I have a golden retriever he loves all dogs like little dogs like the size of uh I I just met him yeah I mean he's much more interested in people than he is but he's never mean but if Carl was a squirrel that size he would be dead so he knows the difference between something that's small that's a dog that's just tolerated you know oh how you doing buddy or something that's that big that's a squirrel which is murder I'm going to murder that thing okay you said murder yeah that led me cuz I was he's a murderer he's a squirrel murderer you know what is a what's a group of crows called a murder a murderer so I'm going to tell you now about another study and maybe Jamie can pull it off I think it's a guy at University of Washington maybe I I hope I'm not wrong where he he wanted to see whether crows remember the face of a really nasty guy so that they can you know if he then comes again they'll start calling right right and and and he he kind of took a like an image of the face and then he would either wear it or not and then he would I I don't remember what the deep end the measure was but it was something to the effect of then he's studying there you there you go I mean I love it I love having Jamie so this guy had a mean face and he did mean things and the crows recognized him and and so then it starts spreading to the entire group where they exactly know you see this face remember it he's a [ __ ] H that makes sense crows are insanely smart though oh they're smarter than most have you seen the ones from I think new calonia that do all the stuff with the maybe Jamie you could pull that one up I think that's the the smartest of all the the that Aven species they can take rocks and like a thousand different things to get food out of things that I guarantee you you and I would sit there for 18 hours and we wouldn't crack that mystery yeah they figured out how to use tools to get other tools to exract food ex ex yeah there you go there you am it's just unbelievable they put rocks in there to raise the water level I mean a little kid wouldn't even figure that out I mean they're [ __ ] smart man look at this look at this it's crazy well I I love it's also their brains are so small which really is really confusing bird brain yeah it's really confusing like large brains don't I mean we don't really know how intelligent an animal is unless we see it manipulate its environment or communicate yeah cuz it's possible that elephants are insanely smart they have immense memories their memories are nuts like they me they they get reunited with their calves like 20 years later and they run and embrace each other and it's just joyous when elephants die They Mourn They Mourn the death they have huge brains but it's also a huge animal but it doesn't manipulate its environment so we don't respect it sort of like the way the reason why dolphins are in SeaWorld it's cuz that's literal slavery it's slavery of probably a parallel or if not more intellectual species something with a cerebral cortex 40% larger that are human beings something that communicates in a language that we can't decipher something that has different dialects something that operat operates in these very tight social groups but they do some rough sex I don't know if you've heard well they do they're dolphins are horrible dolphins are they they kill their babies there's no hashtag me too with the dolphins let me tell you it's worse than that Dolphins when they find a female and she has a child if he has not had sex with that that dolphin female that child's not his so he'll kill that child Lions do the same but what they'll do is the females will have a sex with as many dolphins as they can so you don't know so you don't know whose kid it is that's it so that they don't kill their baby there you go which is wild there you go I mean but that's how you live when there's no doors you know you're in the ocean no doors open open open wild it's just why old this is murder soup you said the manipulate the environment so have you heard of the bow bird do you know what that is no so the bower bird maybe maybe sorry I'm I keep going b o w r so the bower bird creates a bow which is a a a structure that serves no purpose other than demonstrating my artistic there you go really so by the way you know what I'm loving about today's show it's like I feel like I'm back to lecturing my evolutionary psychology stuff good I need a class oh so look look what he's doing you see so let me let me explain what's happening here unless you want to watch it first no please explain so so what it's one of the only species other than humans that uses artistic ability as a mating queue wow right so right Picasso short little guy bald ugly he's got a huge lineup of hot women who want to have sex with him because he's Picasso that's what the bower bird is doing he's saying look at how architecturally Savvy I am look how symmetric my bowerbird is not only that by the way see how oh there you go okay she said you're good enough let's do this let's do this let's do this have excellent trophies so now but you saw all those other blue things yes okay so if you if you traveled to Australia in certain regions there there are signs from the government saying if you are women don't be careful don't wear shiny things on your head why because these [ __ ] will come at you attack the women's head steal the shiny things so that they could use the shiny things in their Bower to attract the ladies wow now that's smart that's smarter than most men not really but I see what you're saying but look at this setup man this guy's got this dope pad he's got like a bachelor pad with flowers out in front like ladies don't you like no that's the girl that was the girl that the girl yeah that's the girl you usually in Avon species the drab one is the girl and the flashy one is the guy right like nobody gives a [ __ ] about female flamingos yeah right [ __ ] out of here female flamingos what am I going to do with that I need a dude ex exactly strut around exactly if you got flamingos man you're a baller that's a move right have a flamingo in your yard just walk around so you only have a I'm thinking a peacock you have a you only have a dog I'm thinking of peacock I'm doing the whole thing like I'm a peacock but I'm thinking of I'm saying Flamingo yeah I only have a dog I have chickens too by the way oh you like those exotic ones just like regular lay chickens lay eggs but here's the I'm scared to ask this they become pets you don't eat them right or no I don't eat I I will if somebody [ __ ] around somebody tries to hurt somebody I'll grab those little [ __ ] they're little dinosaurs when when uh one of them was younger um uh this is my old group of chickens that I had when my my youngest daughter was a baby they were pecking her feet and I I there's this one Cy chicken that we had and uh I feel going to be a Christine no moment no no no no no no nobody died my wife Unfortunately they all did they all coyotes got them and dogs long story anyway point is I go no she's trying to eat the baby's feet like you got to understand this is not this is not like she thinks that's a worm she thinks she can get away with eating they eat each other they [ __ ] Peck at each other they they'll K they'll murder a mouse have you never seen a chicken and a mouse together really yeah we had a fence and this is very unfortunate but we had a fence that was glass and uh one of the side effects of this glass fence was Hawks and Hawks would be swooping down to try to get a rat or some other rodent or something and they bam nose dive into this glass and we lost like three Hawks like this is [ __ ] up you know I was like maybe we should go back to the other fence my wife was like [ __ ] you I like this fence it was it was one of those conversations where we were like like this seems like it's our fault that these Hawks die right so one of them made it one of them lived and they took the hawk and they put it in like a big like washing machine box and contact this wildlife rescue thing and they said well okay if you're going to have it cuz we're not open until Monday you got to feed it thing so what do you feed it so you have to go to the the store we went to the pet store they get these things called pinkies and when pinkies are just baby mice they're baby mice that have they're not going to live they're they're separated from their mother you feed them to reptiles okay it's gross right and uh so the hawk ate most of them but he didn't eat one so they were like we're going to raise it I go listen you can't just do that you can't just like feed a bunch of these little things to this giant Raptor and then say now we're going to take this one that survived and raise it first of all the nightmares that little [ __ ] would have but second of all it's not viable it's not it needs it need it's not going to live yeah I go let's just give it to the chickens so I brought it outside and I put it in the chicken's cage one chicken grabs it as fast as I've ever seen a chicken move and then every other chicken runs after that chicken and tries to get it away from her is it a defensive thing or they want to eat it they want to eat it okay they and so she has it in her mouth and they're trying to steal it from her and they just tear it apart and devour it like dinosaurs wow like it's so crazy watching them kill so I'm not feeling so guilty at the genocide of chicken that I eat it's still [ __ ] up cuz it's the soul of the animal is not being expressed as nature intended the soul of the animal should be a chicken it's not that you shouldn't eat chickens but chickens should live as chickens they should wander around and pick bugs and eat worms and do all the things that chickens love doing to have a chicken just in a box for its entire existence stealing Souls you're doing [ __ ] up that's way more [ __ ] up than just raising a farm if you got cows and they're on a pasture and every day they're just being cows and then one day you take them in the stall and bang this thing goes into their brain then they're dead that is way less evil that is way more Humane than what's going to happen to them in the wild what are they going to do they're going to either freeze to death or starve to death or get torn apart by Wolves right torn if you're going to have cows every everywhere