Charlie Kirk, founder and president of Turning Point USA. [Music] >> How are you, Charlie? >> Great, Glenn. You were excellent last night. Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh, it was uh it I meant what I said when I walked out on stage and said, "You give me hope." >> Oh, thank you. It is. It's >> You've put together what? 5,08 to 24 year olds. >> Yes. >> And they're from all over not only the country, the world now. Uh and they're >> they're the fresh troops. This is the generation that's going to fight the battle. >> And they're fighting on the front lines for freedom and liberty. And you gave a very the compelling interactive history talk. And you and I were talking off camera how dangerous it is that students don't know history and then they think that history starts with them. You know who else tried to do that in the French Revolution. Remember they wanted to start time over. >> Yeah. >> It was a robust spear idea in 1792. History starts with us. Everything before it is a is a mistake. Religion, morals, we're the most important people in the world. And you see that through Alexandria Kaziocortez. >> She says, "Well, everyone before us has screwed everything up." Well, not so fast, my friend. >> That kind of hubris, that kind of pride will lead a culture to destruction. >> Greta Thurberg. >> She's a frightening, sad case. I mean, here's this girl who says, "How dare you? You've stolen my future." Nobody's stolen your future. You make the future. >> Correct. and she wrote a piece co-authored with a university professor from University of Texas Austin and another climate activist where she said it's not even about climate change. It's about deconstructing a colonial patriarchy that's rooted in racism. That's the real agenda there. But Glenn, what you did so brilliantly last night, what you've done for years is you talk about the heroic stories that have built our country and that we're not just like every other country. We are exceptional. Walt Disney, Jesse Owens, these heroes that have built our country and meant most students are not taught this in any form whatsoever. >> I was shocked. Candace Owens said, "How many how many are taking Western civ have taken a Western Civ class? >> One hand went up in a crowd of 5,000." >> In fact, they're being t told and taught that Western Civ is evil and is wrong. that this whole society that has been so good for humanity and for those Christians out there, so good for the gospel of Jesus Christ, so good for the advancement of a moral order is a mistake. And this this is the failure to teach our history means that the the future will be put in jeopardy. >> So Charlie, how can I help you? How can this audience help you? >> You being here, you doing your show, you speaking here has been such an amazing blessing to us and our organization. >> How can the audience help? Well, they if they'd like to, you know, chip in, it's tpusa.com is the website. You can get engaged in a variety of different ways. And the probably the most important is get your students and your family members involved with Turning Point USA. >> It is your growth is unprecedented. You are you're what the Tea Party dreamt of. I mean, this organization didn't exist 5 years ago, and it's worldwide. >> Yes, sir. Yeah. >> It's I can't I can't tell you. >> UK and we had a great victory there. But never bet against Americans. And that's what your stories told us last night. And this is not supposed to happen. The ruling class elites, they never thought that a movement of young people could be organized around conservative ideas. We're we're going to take back our country. >> And they are uh >> they're brave. They are not afraid. They are not afraid. I admire you and everybody at Turning Point. You've done a great job. Thank you so much, Charlie. >> Thank you. I visit campuses a lot and we're so thrilled you'll be able to speak to our students and the rise of socialism is real and the destruction of our public education system. >> Can't wait. >> And so can you give a little bit of a preview or as this will record indefinitely in perpetuity? G give it give it to those that can't be there. >> Give give me the >> I can't give it I can't give it to you. Uh >> and I want our students look up to you and admire you so much Ben. So, it's just >> it's really nice. And if you could remember my name, I would believe it. >> I was saying Glenn Beck. Ben Ben. >> I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Relax. Okay. Uh, let me just start on a couple things. First, this is this is an 1830 engraving of the original Declaration of Independence, the first draft. Wow. Okay. >> And if you look at it here, you can take that one. If you look at it, you will see um on the sides uh on the borders >> course of human events. >> Yeah. And in the on the borders, you'll see things like Franklin or Adams. That's like a Google doc where Franklin went in and said, "Don't like that line." And so he would write Franklin or Adams. Do you see that? >> Yeah. >> Isn't that amazing? So, I want you to notice that. Look through. >> They scratch stuff out here. I know there's a lot different in this draft >> and this so this is the first draft. >> This is the first the first pass, >> right? And so >> before it got the king's eyes, >> right? So before Congress got a hold of it. Okay, this is Franklin uh this is Jefferson then Franklin and Adams going, "Okay, I kind of like that. Let's present it to Congress." They presented it to Congress. They talked about it. Now, what does the Declaration of Independence say at the very top >> when in the course of human events? >> No, the very top. >> Well, I'm going to read this. Is that okay? >> Yeah. Go ahead. >> Uh, a declaration by the representatives of the United States of America in general Congress. So, something that did not officially exist, >> right? But what does the official the one that was approved? >> I don't know. >> Unanimous declaration. >> Wow. >> Okay. So they started and Thomas Jefferson said, "You have Do we all agree that if we aren't completely in lock sink that the king will find a way to worm him himself between us and he'll split us apart one by one and we'll be done." >> Wow. >> So is everything have to be unanimous? Yes or no? They all voted yes. Jefferson, you go write it. Okay. So, I want you to notice that the only words that are capitalized in that >> are United States of America. >> Okay, look at uh >> this is incredible. By the way, >> look at Thank you. Look at >> stuff all day. >> Look at that page. Do you see anything capitalized or printed >> Christian >> and >> men? H. Now, why why would you notice that that nowhere else? >> Underline, too. >> Yeah, there's it's nowhere else in the document. >> Wow. >> He doesn't print anything. Everything is in cursive. He does. His handwriting changes at that point. Okay. You know what that is? That's Thomas Jefferson alone at night writing the first draft. >> Wow. >> And in it he says and the worst usurpation, the worst thing he has done is this Christian king handwritten out. That's uh that's all printed. That's all caps lock basically, >> right? And underlying time, right? He's mocking this Christian king >> has taken a group of people who never offended him from another part of the world. >> Basically criticizing slavery maybe or >> Yeah. >> bought and sold, right? >> Right. Put them on a boat if they survived. He sold capital letters men on the open market. really important because uh blacks weren't men. How could Thomas Jefferson write all men are created? Oh, he knew he knew. That's why he in his own zeal he he capitalized men. He sells men on the open market. And now he's taking the people who are trying to free those people. We have tried over and over and over again. And he blocks us every step of the way. And now he's tell telling these people that he'll buy their freedom if he will if they will kill the people who are trying to set him free. >> Wow. >> Okay. Jefferson didn't understand slavery. The founders didn't include this. Remember unanimous declaration. Wow. >> Two states out of 13. Two states said that has to go. Two out of 13. So don't tell me we were built by racists that didn't understand. They understood. They knew. >> And inspired by this document, in 1777, Vermont abolished slavery. I mean, this document inspired the abolition movement. It took 30, 40, 50 years. But the the the lie of the left is that we're a racist country from our from our founding. >> Correct. >> What else you got here? >> Uh let's see. I'll show you this. This is really kind of cool. Uh this is >> and we only got a couple minutes because then we got a >> So this is handwritten uh this is to uh Caesar Rodney uh one of our founders uh written by Thomas Jefferson. Just read the last couple of lines. >> This is incredible. >> You might recognize that letter. >> I'm not great at reading cursive. I'm going to confide in you Glenn. >> He says basically I see the storms >> the world entire from the calamity threatened. >> Yeah. I see storms are the world. We are the world's >> last hope and its loss will be on our heads. God help you and preserve you. >> I think that might be a Latin phrase at the end. >> I mean here that's that's Jefferson one of his more famous lines. We're the world's last great hope. Just quickly this is the original perspectus for Disneyland. The map handc colored by Walt >> which was actually Disney World. No, this is Disneyland, >> California. >> Yeah, this is Disneyland. This is in 55. >> Okay. He did. Was that first in he never saw the Florida one be built? Is that right? >> No, he died before died in 66, I think. And that was opened in 72. And Epcot was not supposed to be what Epcot is now. Um, you know what this is? Have you ever seen this? >> No, but it looks Eastern. So, it looks like uh if I had to guess >> um a picture of >> bombers >> either. Obviously from 1940s, probably World War II, Japanese, you know, >> Japanese, >> this American. Okay. On the back it says, "We have a new bomb." >> So, we were letting people know before we dropped the bomb. >> Only 70 million of these were dropped. >> Leaflets, >> leaflets were dropped from the sky. Uh, over 11 cities. These are the cities here. And Hiroshima and Nagasaki are two of the cities. And on this it says, "Get out of the city. We have more firepower in one bomb than all the bombs we have already dropped in Europe. >> Get out. Food and water will be scarce. We are not after you. We are after your um emperor." And you >> and his imperial ambitions >> not after you. Tell me where that is in history. We don't even know. >> Only Israel would do that with the Palestinian Authority. And they do. >> Correct. Um, I have Lincoln's bloody uh collar in here. I have the the torch from the 36 Olympics. It's going to be a >> But Glenn, we're just like every other country. >> No, we're not. >> We We are an exceptional country, >> you know. We We may be on that road. Um, Walt Disney in 1954, in the uh I think it was November of 1954 said, "I want to build a park and I'm going to build it in Orange County." Okay. And it was a Orange Grove in the in the >> now Anaheim, California, >> right? In the in in the fall of 54. In July of 55, it was Disneyland. >> It's amazing. >> So, we are not the nation we used to be. Now, you have to get envir You'd have to get environmental impact statements. You'd have to >> never get that done. >> They would march in 20 years. >> Today, I am talking to my good friend Charlie Kirk of Turning Point USA. He just got a new podcast that you guys should go subscribe to. He of course travels the country all the time talking about conservative values and we are going to talk about uh conservatism and what it looks like for us to be kind of on the front lines of that especially him and how we relate to these younger generations that seem to not really know what conservatism is or why they should buy into it and why that work is really important. Well, I'm sure most people listening right now know exactly who you are and what you do, but tell everyone a little bit about your background, Turning Point, how you started this whole thing that is now a massive movement. >> Well, thank you. I mean, I um I started Turning Point USA when I was 18 years old. Um I had no connections, no money, and no idea what I was doing, but I had this kind of crazy idea that uh young people could be uh conservative and that we needed to do more. um that our generation didn't have to kind of fall in this radical leftist direction. Um the great irony is I never went to college and um to start a college movement, which is kind of in the fun kind of twist of >> and um >> yeah, it's just grown now to 1400 high school and college campuses. Yeah, >> we have amazing team, tons of spirit, lots of energy, and um just like really honestly just really blessed and super thankful and lucky to have been able to have the success we've been able to have. >> So, you were 18 when you started it. How old are you now? >> I'm 25 now. >> 25. So, it's been about 7 years. Could you have imagined that it would grow this much and really this quickly relative to how long it typically takes these kinds of organizations to grow? >> No. I I didn't even know things could grow to be this big, you know, meaning like I was just so um naive. I didn't not naive is not the wrong word. I was just I was >> Yeah. I wasn't worldly. Like I didn't know how organizations worked or budgets or staff or employees. But what's so beautiful about our country and what I'm fighting for is a kid with a dream can still succeed. And that's that's a uniquely American concept. It really is. that you have a vision and you're going to make mistakes. You're going to have to take a risk, but large in part if you if you have this good idea and you work really really hard, you can show progress over a couple years. And that's a beautiful thing about our country that, you know, you and I are both working to preserve and protect because not every country has that kind of guarantee where a young person can take a risk and then succeed. >> Yeah. Were you raised conservative? >> Mostly. Yeah. I mean, I was raised center right. I was raised with really conservative values, but they never use the word conservative. And that's like a real I think a lot of people have this kind of upbringing where >> yeah, >> my dad would always just talk about how great of a country America is. My mom raised me as a Christian, but they vote Republican, don't get me wrong, but it just wasn't it wasn't part of their our conversation. It wasn't like now here's why you have to be a conservative. It was just Charlie, you need to realize how great of a country we live in. Yeah. And those are all naturally conservative things. Now, now, of course, my parents, like many other people, I think, have become more involved in politics as our country has become more in jeopardy, honestly. >> Um, and they're much more likely to say that they're conservatives today than they were 10 years ago. >> Um, but I think I think if even for any parents listening to this or, you know, new parents like, you know, too soon to be parents like yourself, just teach the values. Just teach the ideas. Forget about the political labels. talk about American exceptionalism and faith and reverence and all these things. >> Yeah. >> And that will make such a bigger difference in someone's upbringing than just like, oh, this side is good and this side is bad. >> Yeah. Because the fact of the matter is these are conservative almost partisan values nowadays. It used to be that patriotism and thinking of these things like America first and America is the greatest country in the world. A lot of people thought that on both sides of the aisle, but now it seems like that's almost strictly a conservative idea. And I really have >> Yeah, I really have the the same story. My parents never really talked about being a Republican. I knew that they were I knew that we liked George W. Bush. I knew after 9/11, we really revered him and and all of this stuff, but they were entrepreneurs. They came from nothing. They always told me, "You can do anything that you want to do." Kind of like what your parents told you, it sounds like. And that just always appealed to me. It never made sense that you would want bureaucrats controlling your life or that you would want a limit or a cap on your success. And I think that's what I want to communicate to young people is that is a huge part of what conservatism is. And young people do like freedom and flexibility and independence. So, why do you think there has been among so many people around our age, I'm a little older than you. Why do you think that they can't connect the values of freedom and independence and flexibility, the things that they really like with conservatism? >> Well, I I think first of all, there's a massive misinformation campaign against conservatives starting for, you know, in the education system in media. But Ally, I'm going to kind of just say a lot of students, >> I think they want to change the world. I think they want to do what's right. A lot of stu I think most students do, at least the ones in politics. >> And the ones on the left, they've been told the best way that they can change the world is by giving government all this power and giving government all this authority over everyone, you know, other people's lives. And first of all, that's just not true. But it's also just not logical when you think about it. And it's also not correct in the sense that if you the best way to improve anything is to first improve yourself is to act more ethically, act more honestly, do the correct things. I fall short of this. Everyone does, right? We as Christians believe you're always going to fall short of it. But you also believe you can be a better person over time. >> And if you do that, you'll actually make the world a better place. But it's so easy, Ally. It's so easy to sell utopianism to a generation that doesn't know any different but also wants to change the world. And so that like I I'm careful not to do this whole like oh our generation is so stupid type thing. I don't think that does us any good. Yeah. >> I think these students are misinformed. >> But that's different. I think a lot of students mean well. I think they really think they're on the right side of history when they're arguing for socialism or they found some like new idea. Well, it's not. You didn't find anything. not discover a better place. Believe it or not, I actually want to make the world a better place, too. So, they they attack my emotives immediately, right? I'm a horrible person. I want polluting. I want billionaires running around with machine guns. Yeah. Engaged communities. And they only go to private schools, you know, like all these like ridiculous stereotypes, right? They only they fly they fly private jets to work. Whatever, right? Some crazy thing. Yeah. Listen, I actually the first thing that's most important to me is the matrix of maximizing human freedom while also ensuring that our natural rights are protected while also having some sort of compromise that the least of these are taken care of in some form of equitable charitable way whether that be charity, churches, government, finance. So that's the first thing, right? But I want to be able to help people without having to sacrifice human freedom. That's a really that conversation is one that Republicans and Democrats used to be able to have while both respecting the country. Yeah. >> Now I feel as if >> you can't have a conversation about healthcare until it unless it descends into, oh, this is a horrible country. Like we're Bernie Sanders. How dare we not have this as a country? We're a horrible place. Well, hold on. You you can have this conversation logically and ethically without having to say that this whole place has been a mistake. Have we made a mistakes? Yes. Is America mistake? No. And and so anyway, Ally, to put it long and short, students, they're they're the prime audience for utopian values because they want to believe in them. They really do. And what I mean, you're 19. You have very little responsibility. You want to lean in. You want to say, "Yes, we could change the world." Yeah. got to start with yourself. But it's not that simple. You know, Bernie and all these people, we're the freedom people. We're all this. Well, you could say that, but you also have to tell the audience, and this is this is like being brutally true in politics, and no one wants to be brutally true in politics. I'm going to give you freedom. I'm going to give you liberty, but if you screw up, you got to take you got to take responsibility for yourself. >> Yeah. >> And everyone's gonna kind of clap like, "Wait a second. I have to do what?" >> Yeah. >> Like, I have to wake up earlier. Yeah. >> I have to, you know, you see what I'm saying? But here's the thing is, and this is what this is why we as conservatives are always going to be punching up, Ally, always. This is why talk radio is so successful. This is why your podcast works because it takes effort to explain conservative values. >> Yeah, >> they are natural. They are embedded, but it takes maturity. It takes work because it's so much easier to sell everything with no responsibility. Yeah. I, by the way, I wish my job was to go to college campuses and say free education, student loan debt, climate change renewal. My job would be so easy. I'd be done in 10 minutes. >> Yeah. >> And so anyway, I I'm the long and short of it is this takes explanation. It takes theory. It takes observation. It takes maturity, but it also demonstrates we're on the right side of history, to use a Ben Shapiro quote, who we love, or to use the right side of the argument. Yeah. And I don't think that's talked about enough. >> Charlie Kirk, uh, founder and president of Turningpoint USA. Thank you so much for being here, Charlie. Um, you obviously believe that we should be very cautious about um about China and what they're doing and our approach to them. >> Um, I want to ask you first um there's been a lot of push back on the tariffs that Trump has implemented on them. What would you say to people who are critical of of his tariffs? >> We need to intensify them and ramp them up further. This is the last chance we have to hold China in check. I mean, would you want tariffs or do you want missiles? And I'm not being overly dramatic and saying that China wants a full-fledged takeover of our country and civilization as we know it. First, look how they're running their own country. They're putting Muslims in prison. They're instituting a social credit score, total censorship of of their own citizens. It's it's really scary what's going on there. They're they're they're not capitalists. They're not communist. They're state-run markets where the government can take over anything at any time. So, that's how they're running their own country. And they're expanding. They want to take back Taiwan. They want to take back Nepal. They want to take back all those areas. They're building. They They're building islands in the South China Sea. They've purchased most very, very vulnerable companies in Africa. They've purchased their infrastructure, their IT grid. They're trying to take over our military technology and our satellites. Not to mention, they've been killing us on trade for years. Killing us. And I'm a free market guy. I totally am. But I I I just I I just kind of find it surprising that we can't even have a conversation about Okay, so tariffs, we say they're taxes. Okay, fine. I I do agree with that. But do we want no taxes in our society? Like do we we we I would rather have a 5% tariff with China and lower the income tax. >> Like so we I mean if we have taxes I would rather pay have a tar a tariff in some sort with China a country that hates our guts that has has total contempt for our way of life. No religious freedom, no individual freedom. I think it's long overdue to hold them in check. And I we want to try to prevent any sort of military escalation. War is the worst thing that can ever happen basically. And um I think this right now is the last chance we have to hold China in its place before that they become more powerful than we are. >> Yeah. Jesse, you want to weigh in on that? >> Well, I think I to be honest, I think it's one of the bravest things I've seen a sitting president do is to put tariffs on a country that we import so many goods from because there's no political advantage in that when the economy is booming as it is and Trump's heading into re-election. The smart thing to do, well, the smart political thing to do would be to just coast and sit back. But it actually shows how much he believes in this. It's something he's preached on for decades. Whether you agree with him or not, he believes in it all the way. And it really is a national security thing. And it's not anti-free trade to hammer tariffs on China. He's renegotiating a contract. A free trade agreement is not free trade. It's a contract. He's renegotiating a contract so we can get better terms. And they need us more than we need them. So screw them. >> You know what the number one religious viewpoint in China is? Atheism. They have they they there's no religious freedom in China. I mean, Christians are persecuted and under attack. And this who Biden calls great people. It's despicable. And this kind of this idea that we should just be light on China is wrong. We have better ideas than they do. We we we we believe in human freedom. They don't. And if we're if we're not careful, they will continue to take over parts of the world and then we'll be weaker because of it. >> Well, they're buying influence already, too, when it comes to Hollywood cuz Hollywood has to market so many of their movies. We can't even get a pro-America anti-China movie even though they're our main adversary or really our threat in the entire world. You can't get a movie out there that's pro America, anti-China because Hollywood's trying to sell their movies in China and that can influence sucks. >> And and this might be an unpopular opinion with people and I had this conversation with the free trade guy, but I know myself personally, I have so much crap in my house I don't even use. There's piles of clothes and like they're all it's all made in China, almost all of it. And I thought to myself, if I had half of this and I paid a little bit more and it's manufactured in America and I wasn't, you know, funding the rise of the greatest enemy of the 20, I'm okay with that, >> you know, and and to our farmers, I I understand the hurt that they have there. But but by the way, a small part of their business is actually exports to China. A small part, but ask ourselves, what do we buy from China that we need? Very little. What do they buy from us that they need? A lot >> food, energy, resources, intellectual capital. And um they have a lot of problems there. They have a lot of people that live in poverty and their their economy is a mess. Our economy is amazing. Their economy is a mess. And so, um, for people that aren't paying attention, you know, China's the issue to focus on. >> I really think people need to be more cognizant of personal responsibility. And I feel like that the left, what they do best is they want the world to change. They don't want people to change. It's it's it's more beneficial if a person would change their ways instead of trying to force the world to change based on one individual's perspective. >> Yeah. Charlie, you want to weigh in? >> It's a lot of wisdom there. I mean, that's exactly right. The left would rather try to have the world change and never have themselves become better people. You know, they they want to they want to value impose on the external but not actually go through the tough decisions themselves. I mean, they're the they're the liberals that are shouting at our events where Brandon and I go speak on campus that have the messy hair. They haven't showered in days. Their dormator is a mess. And yet, they're telling us that, you know, everything that's wrong with our life. And, you know, I'm I'm sorry. It doesn't look like you have your yourself really organized right now. Um how could you have your thoughts organized? Um and and I mean Brandon has an amazing testimony about it and abortion just gets so demagogued in the media and just shame shame on the media the way that they misrepresent this and there's just so many I mean again I mean if you look at actually the Florida abortion statistics I think like 92% of all abortions in Florida are for selective reasons. They're not for rape, incest, life of the mother might even be higher than that. And so we we had the whole conversation based on an exception where the rule where unfortunately abortions become a form of birth control and that it was never the way that this was sold to the American people. This was ne it was always sold as something that was rare and safe and and there was another way and I can't I can never remember the last legal. >> Yeah, there we go. That's exactly right. Safe, legal, and rare. I can never remember it. Um but it's not anymore. Now now it's abundant and and in New York City and Brandon comments on this all the time. A black woman, if she's pregnant, has a higher likelihood to get an abortion than have the baby. The abortion rate is higher in New York City, than the birth rate. So, if you see a pregnant black woman, there's a higher percentage chance that she'll go to Planned Parenthood than the delivery room. Think about that. How is that a good thing? And here's the final thing I'll say is I I I just I I don't understand how how we as we as a society have accepted the fact that the black community's birth rate has stagnated over the last 50 years, right? How many lives how many dreams are just disappeared? >> And these are these are individuals. These are people that could have that done amazing things and we just snatched their their life away for for for reasons I don't think that are acceptable. >> Well, I look at Ben Carson for example, you know, he's changed the world. >> Yeah. Everybody's, you know, they have this excuse, well, I'm not ready. Well, I don't think his mom was ready. She couldn't even read. >> So, but she pushed through and she gave life to one of the most brilliant people on >> neurosurgeon. Yeah. And and so who knows the next brilliant person that can have a cure for something or or can be a great person to change the world. Um you don't know that and you you are killing that child. And and here's one thing we as a society have to come to the conclusion is it murder or not. >> Right? >> If it's not murder and it's okay, then we don't need it to be rare. You can have as many as you want. But if it's murder, which I believe that it is, then we should not be participating in that. >> Um and and there was there was another point that I was I was thinking about about rape. Um, we always talk about rape, which is obviously exception to the rule, but my grandmother was raped at 12 years old and had my mom. And I often think that what if they would have had an abortion in that case, I wouldn't even be here. >> And what amazes me, and I I I still haven't I haven't put my my my finger on it, but I I will I do have the theory that this is the issue that drives the left more than anything else. I mean, they get angry about stuff, but it's just this issue in particular. There is no dialogue, >> which is sick, too. That's >> I just like I I I can't I don't know why. Hey, I'm going to have to maybe many and maybe 10 years from now I'll finally wake up. For whatever reason, the anger around this issue, would you agree, is just unlike anything. >> It's it's their it's become their religion. >> There's no dialogue. >> Yeah. >> I want to welcome to the program uh a new friend um and a guy who has been with Turning Point USA. He is the founder and the president of Turning Point USA. Um he is a guy that uh I've met a lot of I've met a lot of I want to be really careful. uh 25 year old kids that have come up and they're they have suddenly newfound power and they don't have any idea what they're dealing with. They're not responsible. They're they're exactly who I would have been at 25. Just not responsible with that kind of uh influence and and power. Very few are really reflective and uh and turn out like Ben Shapiro. I remember when Ben Shapiro was on my show. He was, I think, 18 years old. And he hasn't changed. He was a 50year-old when he was 18. He's still 50 at what, 31. Charlie Kirk is, I think, one of the most um wellthoughtout and um and gentleman uh biggest gentleman I have I've met. Uh very very humble when you meet him in person. And yet he is single-handedly with his group Turning Point USA changing the world. Uh he is largely responsible in my opinion for the Trump victory. He is largely responsible for what is happening on the campuses in a good way. But he's here to talk about something that uh we have to pay attention to. Uh and I want to engage you on this because we need your help to save the republic. And it is that is not hyperbole to say that. Welcome to the program, Charlie Kirk. >> Uh thank you so much, Glenn, and uh thank you for the kind words. Greatly appreciated. Thank you. >> You bet. So Charlie, um explain what the left is doing and they're doing this they're doing it openly, but no one really is covering this in the detail that it should be covered because it changes everything overnight. That >> That's correct. And so, ever since Donald Trump won the presidency, the left has been enacting several full assaults on our core institutions. That's why they enacted the the Russia hoax via Mueller. This is why they've continued the propaganda campaign in the media. But most importantly, this one of the components that hasn't gotten much media coverage at all is how the Democrats realized that the system of which we elect a president needs to change. that the system of decentralized elections, the system that gives a voice to middle America, not Manhattan and Malibu, that system is a barrier, is a hindrance towards their quest for total control and for deconstruction of our country and for redefinition of our country. So what am I talking about here? They want to get rid of the electoral college. Sorry, go ahead. >> So Charlie, explain to people because there's a lot of people, especially your age, that say, "Hey, we want a democracy." People are screaming for that now in Europe, you know, direct vote, direct democracy. Make the case uh to those who are in the cities who believe differently and believe in democracy because they've been raised thinking that's what we are. Make the case that that's a bad thing. H >> happy to. So, first of all, we're not a democracy. That's one of the most important things we have to teach the next generation. Bernie Sanders says it almost every single day. and we fall into this linguistic trap and we almost begin to believe the lies of the left that we are a democracy. We're a constitutional republic and we use the democratic means to elect individuals and representatives. Now, what's the difference? A constitutional republic recognizes certain natural rights that can't be taken away just because the mob wants those to be taken away. And in the Federalist Papers, the founding fathers realized and recognized the potential danger of the tyranny of the mob. One one of the big historical fallacies that is taught to students is that America was the first exercise in quote unquote democracy. That's just not true. >> It was tried many times before. Cicero, who I believe is the most important thinker and writer, who was council of Rome for one year, warned against the tyranny of the majority, warned against that total outright uh mobocracy essentially would turn into class warfare. He argued that the middle class needs representation that first and foremost recognizes their natural rights. And so what the electoral college has done over a long period of time is it forces the states first of all. It recognizes the sovereignty of the states. It recognizes that the states created the federal government. The federal government did not create the states. And it allows the states to appropriate their electors as they see fit. Now, this is really important because each state has might have a different way that they want to send their electors to the electoral college. So, for example, two states right now, Maine and Nebraska, they they carve out one of their congressional districts that allow that congress the winner of that congressional district to to maybe be different than the entire voice of the state. So, for example, Donald Trump won a singular electoral vote in Maine in 2016. In 2008, Barack Obama won a singular electoral vote in Nebraska when he won that eastern Nebraska congressional uh seat when he won that. Now, what does that mean? It means that voices that otherwise would not have had as big of a platform all of a sudden are now competitive in the national election and discourse. And what's happening now was actually predicted and prophesized by the founding fathers in the Federalist Papers and the construction of our country where you have the exacerbation of the coastal elites that want to that want to then enact their their viewpoint and their ivory tower philosopher king agenda over middle America and middle class America. And that's most important because the needs and wants of Malibu and Manhattan are not the needs and wants of Michigan and Missouri. So, how do we peacefully go about this without turning ourselves into factions and pitting people against each other? Well, the only way you could possibly come to compromise and build big base coalitions is through the decentralization of elections, which is what the electoral college offers. And you look at other countries that just have straight mobocracies, as I call it. It's not going so well, is it? For example, in in France, no one can possibly say that the ideas that were rooted in the French Revolution have been better for human freedom and prosperity than the ideas rooted in the American Revolution or the Scottish Enlightenment. >> And and what we have right now is the left realizes that the idea of decentralized control, the protection of the individual and states rights, it is a hindrance. It's almost an annoyance and an obstacle for them to be able to get the power that they wish um that that they they want to get. And and so what they're doing right now, just to talk very specifically, Glenn, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to share this with your audience, because this is not theory. This is not something, oh, the left wants to do this. The left is doing this, and they're getting help from far too many Republicans. I I venture, >> yeah, I would venture guess that many people in your audience don't know that 15 states have already passed what's called the Interstate National Vote Compact. What does that mean? 15 states have essentially passed through the state legislators and and signed by the governor agreeing that their electoral votes will be given to the winner of the national popular vote. So in short, the left with the help of far too many Republicans, it tends to be a trend, isn't it, Glenn? It seems like Republicans tend to agree >> to go along with the left far too often. They have realized that they're not going to be able to get this through Congress, that they're not going to be able to get this through the House of Representatives or through a constitutional amendment. So instead, they saw their window to go through the states since the states are allowed to appropriate their electors however they see fit. It could be on how they do it now or they could do it how maybe Nebraska does it or they could do it as something whoever >> whoever wins the World Series if you know that's silly. So >> what the what the left is trying to do is perfectly legal. It's perfectly constitutional and perfectly legal. >> I I would believe so. There are some scholars that think it isn't. I actually don't agree. I actually think it's perfectly legal. I think the framers >> allowed this sort of window to go to the states. It's hard. It's difficult. Now, let's talk specifically. It's already past 15 states, Glenn. Now, this does not go into action until they hit that magical 270 number, that 270 number. They're right at about 200 right now. And on Wednesday, two days ago, Oregon just signed it into law. So, I want you to think about that. This is this is sweeping the country. Now, the the Democrat governor of Nevada, Steve Sisilac, vetoed it a week and a half ago. Good on him. He has more bravery bravery than most Republicans. a Democrat governor of Nevada. It accelerated to the House and through the Senate and he surprisingly vetoed it. This is now being discussed in state states such as Maine, Minnesota, North Carolina, and Ohio. They are 70 votes away from changing the way that we elect a president. And what does that mean? >> So, let's go through those. Maine will Maine will absolutely do that. >> Let's go through these state by state. >> What where are they? Where do we have a chance of turning the tide? Let's look at state by state. >> Yeah. And and so so Maine is now discussing it again in their in their house in the house and will eventually try to kick it up to the governor. And it would be just so foolish, Glenn, for Maine to do this because you talk about a state that actually respects the the idea of the individual generally and has has has not necessarily always gone along with the traditional northeastern stereotype of of leftism. It'd be such a mistake for them to give up their sovereignty and the attention that they're able to get to to the mob, the people that have nothing to do with their needs, wants, or desires. The other one is Minnesota. They're trying to introduce this into Minnesota. >> And the other one that we have to keep a very close eye on in a rapidly changing state in a variety of ways that if we're if we're asleep at the wheel, the state will become a blue state is Arizona. It's it's been introduced into Arizona State House. It's getting far too much traction in Arizona. And Arizona, of course, just elected Senator Kirstston Cinema. Donald Trump did not win a majority of votes in Arizona back in 2016. He only won, I think, >> 49.1%. I could look up the exact number more. And then more specifically, uh, North Carolina. North Carolina is another dangerous state with a Democrat governor and with very weak Republicans. And that's a dangerous and lethal combination. >> All right. So, what do people need to do, Charlie? They need to call. If you're in Arizona, North Carolina, Maine, um you need to organize yourself again. You need to get on your phone with your legislature and your state senate and say, "Stop this. Your governor's off office, do not pass this." Right. >> That's correct. Yes. And so, at Turning Point USA, we're the nation's largest student organization focused on the Constitution and American exceptionalism. And so we feel uh it's incumbent on us to fight for this as hard as we can. And so our website tpusa.com you'll be able to find some resources of what you can do to get engaged and involved on this fight. And we're part what I found Glenn which is always gives me such hope for the future of this country is that this is already organically kind of being fought uh through some great grassroots activists in these states and we're already connecting with them and giving them some resources and funding. And that's what I love about America is that whenever there is a crisis, individuals tend to voluntarily and almost magically step up. And now now we need to give them the call to action. Um, and that is a uniquely American virtue and value that when there is crisis, our patriots step up time and time again. But now we have to raise the level of the sense of urgency on this. I I will tell you, Charlie, I I I've talked to you about this for a few weeks, and I have told you that this audience is a remarkable audience. Um, they're the most giving. They are the hardest working, and I I don't I don't say this to dismiss any other audiences cuz I I know the power of other audiences. This one's just different, and they will engage. Um, and so I I urge you, please, this will make the entire election and everything you're about to go through worthless in the end if they get up to 270. It's got to be stopped. Maine, um, Minnesota, Arizona, North Carolina are the ones that are closest, but they're working this everywhere. So, please get involved. If you can donate money for this to TPUSA, go to TPUSA.com. Uh that's TurningPoint USA. TPUSA. Charlie is really leading this and uh I look to him on how we can uh assist Turning Point to be able to uh stop this because this changes us overnight and really forever. I think we lose this, we lose. We lose. >> That's right, >> Charlie. Exactly right. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much, Glenn, for the opportunity. Thank you. >> You bet. >> Some of the things you've said recently about Martin Luther King are are trying to open up the space for us to have a discussion about the 1964 Civil Rights Act and what that opened the door for. I think we all are in agreement that we needed to end segregation and Jim Crow laws and and black people needed full citizenship and and the to what degree the 1964 Civil Rights Act guaranteed that. I think we all agree that's great, but we have to have a discussion about how that Civil Rights Act is being used and piggybacked by the LGBTQ same-sex marriage. It's opened the door for other things to be piggybacked on top of it that I don't think are good for America and I think this is an important conversation that we have to have and and you've been participating in that conversation. >> Yeah, thank you. It's it's an awfully provocative uh conversation I started. I stand by it and I appreciate the opportunity. I mean this sincerely, Jason, to explain it because there's some some even some people on the right that have been just throwing insults and they would never have me on the show to explain it. So, let me just there was one poll that prompted me to speak out about this, Jason, and I'm a Christian and I love the Lord and I know you do, too. It's the most important thing in my life is when I saw a Gallup poll that Martin Luther King's approval rating was 96% and Jesus Christ's approval rating was 90%. I said, "Okay, we have a problem." I I said if if a if a man who of course said some admirable and heroic things, but let's be honest, uh lived a colorful life, and I'll get into that, has a higher approval rating than Christ, our Lord. Now, you have you have my curiosity. I pair this with a series of um shows, episodes, and also research studies we've done on our show prompted by Christopher Caldwell's excellent book, Age of Entitlement, asking the question of what is the Civil Rights Act? What was it trying to solve and accomplish? How was it sold to the American people at the time? And how was it thought of now by the modern academic consensus? and the modern academic consensus which now is pushing DEI and wokeism. They look at the Civil Rights Act and the Civil Rights era as a new American founding and they look at MLK as the founder. They look at everything before was racist and bigoted and awful, including George Washington and Lincoln. and we refounded the country in a new regime with a new philosophy, dare we say, around anti-racism. And Martin Luther King is the unassalable figure that will then say this is new America. Now, understand at the time, of course, there were legislative priorities that needed to be done by the federal government to stop bitter segregation. I've always held that. But the Civil Rights Act went way further than that. And Christopher Caldwell's book talked about the American people thought they were getting minor legislative adjustments to say that segregation based on race is evil and wrong. In reality, what they got was the birthing of a permanent deep state of bureaucrats that were looking for racism where it didn't exist eventually with affirmative action quotas and and and hiring practices expanded beyond race into LGBTQ type issues. And so what the civil rights era really birthed was this idea that it's the federal government's job not just to say that discrimination is wrong but to actively go against any sort of disparity disperate outcome and try to even the score under the guise of equity. Those are two different things Jason and most conservatives think of the Civil Rights Act and the promise of Martin Luther King in his beautiful statement and I said this all along. It is a beautiful statement. I want America. I I dream of a day where people are not judged based on the color of their skin, but the concept of their character. I'm 100% bought into that. But that was not MLK's entire philosophy. In fact, after the Civil Rights Act was passed, after the Great Society was passed, after the Voting Rights Act was passed, Martin Luther King became more radical talking about we need to restructure society, reconfigure society, we need to even he almost said that he called for reparations. He didn't use that term to be perfectly fair, but you could insinuate he talked about how we have not done a good enough job to have moral and economic justice. All that with to to reiterate one other part, Martin Luther King was a selfdescribed minister. He participated at the very least in dozens of extrammarital affairs on his wife. That is well documented. He definitely participated in orgies and according to certain government documents which again they're FBI documents so they might be real they might not be because we don't trust the FBI that he very well might have encouraged and laughed while a woman was being raped uh in a hotel room uh in one of his very famous orgies. When a man of the cloth who says he is a um he's a man of God does that sort of pattern or behavior I don't think he should have a higher approval rating than Jesus. So how do we explain that? We explain that that we have built this mythology around MLK in the modern era. Now, some myths are important, Jason. I'm actually okay with certain myths. I'm okay with certain people of history being larger than life and something we aim towards and something that we want to lift up. But we must be very careful when we do that. I I think people that we lift up should be Washington, should be Lincoln, should be Jefferson, the actual founders of the country where MLK in my personal opinion and based on every objective analysis, he actually gave us more race focus and and less emphasis on character and conduct because here we are 60 years later. Do we talk about race less or more in the last couple of decades? And I'm not only blaming MLK for this, but his core driving philosophy was not about a color-blind society. That is a line in one of his speeches. He would actually be closer to a race Marxist, almost akin to a DEI type philosopher if you go deep into his writings, especially later in his life. So, I'm glad that we went after it. We went we did it in a very thoughtful way. Um, and I think we as conservatives and Christians must reconsider some of the mythologies and some of the icons and the symbols that we hold up, especially as we try to reorient our reorient ourselves in a broken culture. There's only one person in the 20th century that gets a federal holiday and it's Martin Luther King. I can name at least a dozen people more deserving in the 20th century of a federal holiday than MLK. And if you think at it from the premise that the modern left looks at the civil rights era, as the new founding, as more important than 1776, I think it really starts to make sense. It was one episode Twitter freaked out. I very well could have, you know, took a knee and apologized. I don't play ball like that anymore. I stand by our comments and I'm glad the conversation that ensued. >> If the Civil Rights Act is Dr. King's achievement and Thomas Jefferson's achievement is the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. I'll say, well, the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, look at the fruit that it produced. It was the justification for ending slavery. It was the justification for ending segregation and Jim Crow. It was the justification. And it's the the foundation we stood on to create the freest, safest, most opportunity rich place on the planet for everybody, but for black people in particular. And so if their documents produce that fruit and the Civil Rights Act produced samesex marriage, I got some questions about the Civil Rights Act. Should there have been some limiting principles installed in this? Let's have a conversation about the civil right and let's take Martin Luther King and anybody off a pedestal and and let's just deal with their tree and what fruit did it produce and we have to be man enough to have that discussion. That's beautifully said, Jason. And if you go down to the details of the Civil Rights Act, what could have been achieved through prudent legislative action was actually ended up done is that there was about 1% or 2% of it and it built this massive anti-racist federal bureaucracy that wasn't immediately felt actually. But 10 years, 20 years later, all of a sudden, we get these bureaucrats going after admission standards and they say, "Well, you have to have affirmative action because they introduced disperate outcome saying that, well, your outcomes aren't the same. Therefore, you're a racist institution." Well, no, no, no. We're not a racist institution. It just so happens that there's other factors. And of course, Thomas Soul's amazing book, Discriminations and Disparity or Disparity and Discrimination is is perfect on this. And it's un we must understand that you cannot have the modern woke enforcement without the basis of the Civil Rights Act. Now, that's not to say that every part of the Civil Rights Act is awful and terrible, but all of a sudden, when you give the federal government power to police private business, to police private action to come in, for example, with the EEOC, which is at times overreaching, at times can get into small businesses private affairs, that could be a death sentence to a fledgling business that's trying to make it to operate right now. And then all of a sudden, it's metamorphosized. And this is one that I think your audience will find into great agreement. Now all of a sudden the trans thing is under the Civil Rights Act. So that what was once, you know, the intent was, hey, and I I totally am sympathetic to this, that you have a black family that's driving on an expressway in the Nachas Trace in Mississippi and they're running out of gas and the only gas stations are white owned and operated. And they say, "Yeah, sorry, blacks aren't allowed to get gas." and they have to pull over and they're out of gas on the side of the Nachas Trace in central Mississippi and they have to wait for a nice good Samaritan to pull over and give them gas. That I I don't want to live in that country. I think that a law that said no, that black family has to be given gas is a good law. Let me be perfectly clear, okay? that could have been done without creating a massive now multiund,000 person basic standing army throughout all the federal bureaucracies that is beyond the idea of going after a couple states and a couple jurisdictions and then the courts and this is what's important Jason what the Civil Rights Act did because of the fanfare and because of the celebration and because of how it's thought of is that in Most in most law schools, the Civil Rights Act is studied and revered more than the US Constitution. That is a fact. It is studied and reviewed revered more than the Bill of Rights. It's not it shouldn't be. Meaning it's a law. Okay? The the Bill of Rights and the the Constitution is the foundational laws of the land. The Civil Rights Act is cited more. It's it is used more. for example, not the Civil Rights Act, but its sister, the Voting Rights Act, is one of the reasons why we can't get voter ID and we get these goofy gerrymandered districts. And so much of the frustration that we see in our modern politics is because we have these foundational elements that actually none of us agreed to at the time. A majority of Americans wanted to see an end to segregation. They didn't want to see new segregation put forward in the in eventually in anti-white hiring practices, affirmative action, or the entire federal bureaucracy having racial hiring quotas. And here's the most important thing, and I'm not saying it's because of this, but black America was getting richer. They were getting stronger, and families were largely still put together before the Great Society Voting Rights Act and Civil Rights Act. 60 years later, black America is in a worse position. I'm not saying it's because of the Civil Rights Act. I'm not saying it's because the Voting Rights Act. But somewhere something went arry. And now we have more conversations about race. We have more fixation on race than any other time in my adult life. The promise was that we were going to get a colorblind America. And to offer an olive branch to some of my conservative friends that still lift up MLK. They they want to lift up MLK because they want to turn the page on race. And I'm totally on that that program. What I'm trying to counter is the reason we talk about race so much is because we have a federal holiday to a guy that talked about race all the time. We celebrate the Civil Rights Act more than the American founding and that we have this continuation of multi-deades of building and building and building where then in the '9s you get Derek Bell and Intro to Critical Race theory. You get Patrice Colors in the 1619 project and eventually you look around and you have the left defending black only dormitories at hundreds of universities across the country, black only graduation ceremonies and they say, "Well, you're racist if you oppose these things." And you look back to the Civil Rights Act and you say, "Maybe we overreached and we built something we didn't intend, a federal leviathan in the form of anti-racism." I have a question for you. >> Okay. In the in 10 years, do you think America will be more or less socialist? I ask this question of everybody. By the way, >> can I answer with a caveat? >> Of course. If uh we continue the spending and if we continue the erosion of of who we are and the truth, we will be much more socialist. If we if we have this a real collapse, an actual depression, people who right now say, "I am absolutely against socialism." they will want it to be able to weather that storm. >> Um, uh, and I'm afraid that we're on that track. However, I've been really heartened. I mean, Charlie, I don't think you know the impact. You say, "Oh, Glenn, you made an impact on my life." Do you realize the impact you're having on the country? >> I don't. >> I mean, your organization didn't exist 5 years ago. It didn't exist. Tonight, I'm talking to 5,000 people and I in in this place had paid to come across the country. I was on a plane with all kinds of 18 to 24 year olds yesterday and I realized the people you have. You remember when I did the thing in Washington DC and restoring honor? >> I do. Right. Right on the uh Washington monument. >> Right. And I said that that day somewhere in this crowd >> there is maybe he's seven, maybe he's 15. >> I saw that speech. >> Yeah. Somewhere in this crowd is the next George Washington that will feel it right now. And I am so overwhelmed with the people that I have met from your organization and the people who are coming. You're raising the next generation. you are you and your organization. >> Thank you. >> Really responsible for um what I think will be the next great generation, but also some real sucky ones are going to come out of this group, too. You know, there's always there's always >> there's always a big government progressive left or right in in every group. I want to talk to you about that because that's a great point and I think the you're starting to see the coming divide on the right. Um, and I have some sympathy with some of the arguments and it's definitely 100% sympathy with the observations >> of where the the the right comes from this. But there's a new right movement um where they're okay with using government to trust bust >> or using government to solve societal cultural problems, banning things, growing government. So >> this idea of banning porn that's been kicked around. >> So that that that that's part of it, >> right? >> So let's talk about I did a whole podcast on that. >> What's I don't know if you've commented on that publicly or not, but this is the coming divide though, Glenn. >> I know. >> I don't like something. This is horrible. This is evil. It's immoral. It's sin. >> You are. You are no different than what you're fighting against. >> Talk about that. This is the divide, Glenn, right? That we're that you're going to, by the way, some of the students tonight are going to be looking for that clarity >> because they're being told, >> which way do I want to go on this? >> That's the diff. This is this is the divide that started with the progressive era and the Roosevelt and Woodro Wilson. >> Those two believed that the government and a group of experts could decide for everyone else. >> Philosopher Kings. Yes. >> Right. That's insanity. And that is the exact opposite of what our founders believed. What our founders believed was was look, you are going to some people and I know this because I come from a suicidal family. I've had two people, my mother and my uh my brother commit suicide. So I know it. Some people's bottom is death. And there is nothing you can do about it. When people say, "Oh, that guy was an alcoholic. That star was an alcoholic and depressive. We should have seen this coming. Most likely the people in their life did see it coming and they tried to do things. But until the individual decides to change, nothing will change. They'll just hide it deeper and deeper and deeper. And you will cause more strife by trying to force them to sober up, get better, be happy. You know what I mean? Mhm. >> And um you can't control other people's morality. You can you can teach why it's destructive, but you become the fascist when you decide this is immoral and thus I'm going to make sure nobody does it. >> Um >> there's an argument to be made. It's the efficacy of banning it also is questionable. Black markets pop up. Look at look at the drug war. >> Sure. Yeah. >> Look at look at the drug war and look at it's not Spain, it's the island, Portugal. Yeah. Are you familiar with >> they they legalized all drugs basically. >> They had the highest addiction rate, I believe, in the world on heroin. >> They were losing their entire country. They are pouring money. What they decided to do was legalize all of it and then take half of the money they were spending >> and work on drug programs like AA programs, just fund things that work to get people off that. They've completely healed their country. I mean, there'll always be drug problems, but they've healed their country. We keep going down the same path. Bad, slap the hand. Bad slap the hand. It doesn't work. And that's growing on the right, Glenn. >> I know it is. >> And it's almost I don't want I don't >> remember the progressives started in the Republican side. >> Yes. And you're seeing the you're seeing it especially with the issue of tech, tech tyranny, Facebook, Google. And there's calls on the right now to either trustbust them where we heard that before. Mhm. >> Or and a lot of it is t by bad history by the way that the trust busting was almost is glamorized from the 19 early 1900s and you educated me on this quite well >> about really the reality of trust busting you know and >> the the it is the one part of capitalism that I can't come up with a comfortable answer on um how do you control it when people become so wealthy and so powerful >> that they can control. So, do we take their money away? Do we take their control away? Do we bust them up so they don't have that much? This country was really built by the railroads. Um, you know, people say, "Oh, the look at the Vanderbilts and what they had just because they built the railroad." The average American has about twice the benefits and lifestyle that the Vanderbilts had back then. We have a much better life on average and just below average. >> And they were the top of >> And they were the No one was even close. >> Just ask Anderson Cooper. >> Yeah. No one was even close. >> Charlie, welcome to the show. I I want to start. >> Thank you. where where I wasn't anticipating starting. But, you know, hearing this news earlier in the day makes me think that Pride Month is going completely different than I anticipated. Today, we learned that Starbucks has instructed its locations to pull down, pull back from their pride decorations throughout the store. And and I I think I said this last week and and now I think there's even m
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