Charlie Kirk Reveals Why Building New Colleges Matters More Than Saving Academia Today

[00:00] How do we start to take academia back?

[00:03] What is the best route to achieve that?

[00:05] >> Well, I'm not convinced it's possible in

[00:07] certain areas. I think we have to build

[00:09] new colleges and new institutions. My my

[00:12] big fear is that this woke ideology is

[00:14] now infiltrating the social sciences.

[00:17] It's also infiltrating engineering and

[00:20] mathematics. The things that you thought

[00:21] would be immune to the kind of racial

[00:24] preference, you know, worldview is now

[00:26] totally and completely infiltrated. And

[00:28] so I wrote a whole book called The

[00:29] College Scam. So I'm not exactly big on

[00:32] saving higher education, but I do think

[00:35] there is a place for higher education.

[00:37] And it pains me because I go and I visit

[00:40] to Hillsdale College quite often.

[00:42] Hillsdale College is America's greatest

[00:43] college, by the way. They do a fabulous

[00:45] job. And it pains me because I see how

[00:48] good education could be. I I sit on

[00:51] these classes at Hillsdale College and

[00:52] they're studying Aristotle's ethics.

[00:54] They're studying, you know, Augustine.

[00:57] They're studying the Suma Theologica by

[00:58] Aquinus. Now, I would just venture a

[01:00] guess that many of you have probably not

[01:02] spent more than maybe a week or a month

[01:05] or a semester thinking about Socrates,

[01:07] Plato, and Aristotle, what they had to

[01:09] offer. If you guys are, then I'll stand

[01:11] corrected on that. Or talking about why

[01:13] Western civilization is the greatest and

[01:15] most excellent experiment in

[01:17] self-government in human history. Why is

[01:19] that the case? Right? And so, education

[01:22] can be great. the pro and there is a

[01:24] place for students to learn classically

[01:26] and read the great books and to have

[01:28] dialogue and discussion. That's not

[01:30] what's happening on university campuses.

[01:32] Instead, you get a steady diet of Robin

[01:34] D'Angelo and Ibram X Kendi and of Jean

[01:38] Stfanic and of intro to critical race

[01:41] theory and Herbert Marcusa and Michelle

[01:43] Fuko and Jacqu Dereda and postmodernism

[01:46] and post structuralism that really these

[01:49] ideas could be entertained for a short

[01:51] while. It's a really bad idea to build a

[01:53] worldview around them. In fact, it's a

[01:55] great way to burn everything around you

[01:57] if you actually do that. So, how do we

[01:59] reclaim it? I think it's time to support

[02:01] the good institutions and build new

[02:02] ones.

[02:03] >> What do you think do you think the

[02:04] content being teached predominantly in

[02:07] public schools is wrong? And then what

[02:08] core concepts do you think should be

[02:10] including moral values should be taught?

[02:13] >> Yeah. Uh government education is a

[02:15] disaster. Um it's so we should go back

[02:18] to a classical form of education which

[02:20] is rooted in goodness, truth and beauty,

[02:22] not just in a buffet line of all the

[02:24] worst ideas that the west has to offer.

[02:26] Um our government the government schools

[02:28] are very industrialbased that's a

[02:30] Prussian school model uh that was pushed

[02:32] forward by John Dwey in the late 1800s

[02:34] and early 1900s. Um which is very much

[02:37] about looking at people as future

[02:38] bureaucrats and widgets in a machine not

[02:41] as sovereign individuals that was made

[02:43] by a divine creator with a purpose. So

[02:45] there's a lot wrong with the government

[02:46] education system. Um but yeah, I would I

[02:48] would go back and um to the books that

[02:50] are being taught, to the ideas that are

[02:52] being espoused. Um the government

[02:54] education system is a complete and

[02:55] abject moral failure.

[02:57] >> And you mentioned how no longer are they

[02:59] being taught on the basis of a divine

[03:00] creator. Do you think all school

[03:02] systems, even public, should have that

[03:04] underlying foundation?

[03:05] >> Yeah, I mean it's in the declaration.

[03:07] >> Okay. Thank you.

[03:08] >> Good afternoon, Mr. Kirk. Um first off,

[03:10] thank you for coming to Illinois State.

[03:12] Um, I had a couple questions, uh, in the

[03:15] spirit of being at Illinois State,

[03:17] school known for its education. Um, you

[03:19] already touched on some things about the

[03:21] role of college moving forward in

[03:23] regards to AI, STEM. Uh, what about the

[03:26] role of an educator, someone who like

[03:28] myself who's trying to teach secondary

[03:30] education in high school?

[03:32] >> It's a great question. Um, you know, I

[03:35] will do this. I have a very strong

[03:37] opinion of what education is.

[03:39] >> Are you studying to become a teacher? uh

[03:41] history education teacher.

[03:42] >> Awesome. Good for you. Why don't you

[03:43] tell me what education is and it's ideal

[03:47] in practice?

[03:48] >> So So I think that's that's two things.

[03:50] A little bit closer. Yeah. So I think

[03:52] that's two things in regards to

[03:54] traditional college. What it's normally

[03:56] been is the burden of proof. Whether

[03:57] you're taking a math class or you're

[03:58] taking a history class, it's all about

[03:59] providing evidence uh to support an

[04:02] answer, right? Um identifying the

[04:04] difference between speculation and

[04:06] evidence. Um, so there's the issue of

[04:09] burden of proof, which again that might

[04:12] change with AI and new technologies. In

[04:14] regards to a high school student, I

[04:17] myself as a history teacher, the first

[04:20] question that I should ask myself is, am

[04:22] I some am I someone worth learning from?

[04:24] Um, I think we already have this

[04:25] pipeline of high school to college back

[04:28] to high school and some really competent

[04:31] teachers are probably capable of

[04:32] teaching students with that amount of

[04:34] experience. I don't think that is common

[04:36] probably for for everyone. Um, and I

[04:39] enjoy having life experience outside of

[04:42] that. Outside of that, uh, the role of

[04:44] educators to develop competent and

[04:46] capable students.

[04:48] >> Great. I I I don't disagree with that. I

[04:50] think there's another thing to that.

[04:54] Do you think educators should be more

[04:56] like carpenters, meaning they're making

[04:58] students into something, or more like

[05:00] gardeners, letting kids grow?

[05:02] >> The role of an apprentice,

[05:03] >> right? So, not even just metaphorically

[05:06] like do you think that it's your job to

[05:08] turn a like a student into a specific

[05:10] thing or to let or let kids grow into

[05:13] what they naturally are?

[05:15] >> Uh the latter

[05:16] >> grow into what they naturally

[05:17] >> the latter and also support um that

[05:20] growth where it can't be supported.

[05:22] >> Um do you do you think it's your role as

[05:25] a teacher to point them towards a

[05:28] certain conclusion? Um, no. But I think

[05:31] it's my job to help them identify like

[05:33] it burden of proof, right? Identify the

[05:36] difference between

[05:37] >> that's where we disagree. I think of

[05:38] course it's the role of a teacher to

[05:40] point towards something.

[05:41] >> Okay.

[05:41] >> And that's fine. We're just going to

[05:42] disagree. We believe as conservatives

[05:46] generally that you should have you have

[05:48] three truth claims. The good, the true,

[05:49] and the beautiful. Yeah.

[05:50] >> And you should try to point a child

[05:52] towards those things. You should try to

[05:54] read things that enrich and nourish

[05:56] their soul and their being towards an

[05:59] appreciation of the elevated things.

[06:02] >> Yeah,

[06:03] >> it's a difficult concept because none of

[06:05] that is probably talked about here at

[06:06] Illinois State, right? It's probably

[06:08] it's much more te technical and you know

[06:10] mechanistic and a German view of

[06:14] education.

[06:14] >> Exactly. It's normal named after the

[06:16] German.

[06:16] >> Yeah, exactly. Where we have a classical

[06:18] view of education much more Athenian in

[06:21] nature. Yeah. where we want

[06:22] >> Alexander the Great to Aristotle.

[06:23] Aristotle to Plato,

[06:25] >> that apprentice student.

[06:26] >> Actually, it was Socrates Plato.

[06:28] Aristotle, but that's fine. That's okay.

[06:29] Yeah, that's

[06:30] >> Look, I've already taken a couple L's

[06:31] this week. Jeez, what happened?

[06:34] >> Sparring.

[06:35] >> Yeah, Spart Spar heavyweight. But

[06:36] >> Awesome. Good. Um, and that's fine. It's

[06:38] not a matter of disagreement. We think

[06:40] the teacher should challenge and elevate

[06:43] the student towards the good

[06:45] >> and that a teacher should be unafraid to

[06:48] tell a student, you're totally wrong.

[06:50] >> Yeah. 100%. and then point them and try

[06:52] to get them to naturally get towards an

[06:54] end point or a certain conclusion. If

[06:56] for example, if a teacher has, you know,

[07:00] if they come to the conclusion, well, if

[07:02] my students believe whatever they want

[07:03] to believe at the end of this, it is

[07:04] what it is.

[07:05] >> We don't think that we don't think the

[07:07] teacher's done their job.

[07:08] >> 100%.

[07:09] >> That makes sense. So, thank you very

[07:10] much.

[07:11] >> Thanks, man. Have a great day.

[07:12] >> College enrollment rate has been

[07:13] dropping every single year for the past

[07:15] few years. uh education feels much less

[07:18] regulated, not up to-date and uh pretty

[07:21] not advanced anymore. What do you

[07:22] recommend if you want to get educated

[07:24] but don't think a college education is

[07:26] the best way?

[07:26] >> It's a good question. It depends on what

[07:28] you want to do, right? It depends on

[07:30] what you want to actually, you know,

[07:32] >> for example, this sorry to interrupt,

[07:34] but this college here has uh promised to

[07:36] raise their tuition 35% over the next 5

[07:38] years.

[07:39] >> 7%.

[07:40] >> It's just it's incredible. I'm going to

[07:41] be honest, in the next 10 years, we're

[07:43] not there yet. These in These colleges

[07:46] are going to be completely irrelevant.

[07:47] AI is going to take away 90% of the jobs

[07:50] and advanced robotics is going to

[07:51] basically take over the world as we know

[07:53] it. So find something to study and be

[07:57] good at that AI can't do.

[07:59] >> That's the best piece of advice I have

[08:01] for young people. Find something to be

[08:02] good at that AI cannot do.

[08:04] >> It's a short list, by the way, cuz AI is

[08:06] getting pretty advanced as you well

[08:07] know. Thank you. Appreciate it. If I

[08:09] remember correctly, you said something

[08:10] along the lines of the purpose of

[08:12] education should be to kind of breed

[08:15] gratefulness for being in a an awesome

[08:17] amazing country. Uh could you elaborate

[08:19] on that?

[08:19] >> Yeah, that's a great question and thank

[08:21] you for asking it. So education comes

[08:23] from a Latin word which means to lead

[08:25] forth. It literally comes out of

[08:27] Socrates allegory of the cave. Well,

[08:29] Plato's allegory of the cave of as told

[08:31] by Socrates of leading forth out of

[08:33] darkness into into light. So there's

[08:36] this debate right now of what is

[08:37] education, right? Should education be

[08:40] kind of a buffet line where you present

[08:42] students with all the different options

[08:43] they kind of choose for themselves or

[08:45] should education be hopefully a

[08:48] commitment to things that are

[08:49] objectively true and good and beautiful

[08:51] and leading young people towards what is

[08:53] the beginning of philosophy, which is

[08:56] wonder. like wow there's a world so big

[08:58] outside of things that I'm just

[09:00] beginning to understand and I know so

[09:02] little of it but I want to go in the

[09:03] pursuit and the journey of maybe getting

[09:05] closer to it so those are two different

[09:07] types of definitions right so one form

[09:09] of an educational definition is you know

[09:11] what we are going to try to sample every

[09:13] single ideology and kids and students

[09:15] choose for themselves I think that's a

[09:17] mistake now the downside is if you get

[09:20] really really bad teachers all of a

[09:21] sudden they're going to use that and

[09:22] they're going to be like oh well we know

[09:23] Marxism is better than that so at least

[09:25] we'd prefer the buffet line over serving

[09:27] you know bread lines of the equivalent

[09:28] of Marxism. Whereas in its ideal though

[09:31] in the classical sense people that are

[09:34] teachers people that want to lead forth

[09:36] they need to be willing to make absolute

[09:39] objective claims in three categories in

[09:41] ethics in metaphysics and in politics.

[09:44] That's not political parties but in

[09:46] certain political systems. And so the

[09:48] the correct and the ideal view of

[09:50] education should be that is it? It's so

[09:52] far from that it's hard to believe.

[09:53] Anyone here classically educated? You

[09:55] kind of know what I believe here. Yeah.

[09:56] And you would know that it's not

[09:58] actually imposing those ideas. It's

[10:00] teaching the fundamentals of Greek, of

[10:02] Latin and Hebrew, read reading ancient

[10:05] and great books and getting closer

[10:06] towards that hopeful end conclusion of a

[10:09] better citizen. And so people say,

[10:10] Charlie, what does a a a properly

[10:12] educated man look like, a magnanimous

[10:15] man, someone that has character? Now,

[10:18] character comes from a Greek word which

[10:20] means imprint or tattoo. It's it's

[10:23] etched within you. A properly sold man

[10:26] with character is like the Grand Canyon

[10:29] where good luck undoing that.

[10:33] Good luck trying to change that. That's

[10:35] what education should be. A properly

[10:37] sold man is like the Grand Canyon. Look

[10:39] at it, you're impressed. No matter how

[10:41] much rain, storm, or opposition happens,

[10:44] that stays in put. In fact, education is

[10:48] like the opposite of it. It's like a

[10:49] plate of spaghetti. It changes as you

[10:51] want to. there's no form of it.

[10:52] >> I do agree with some of the things you

[10:53] said about education should be about

[10:56] objective truth and things like that.

[10:58] Although I don't think necessarily

[10:59] ethics has like an objective morality to

[11:02] it all the time. But I just the root of

[11:05] your argu argument with Vos was kind of

[11:07] he was saying how you were arguing that

[11:10] >> the purpose of school shouldn't to be to

[11:13] breed like many activists.

[11:15] >> That is true. So from that I kind of get

[11:16] the idea of a whitewashing history a

[11:18] little bit in order to not like breed

[11:21] activism when in reality I don't think

[11:23] education should like ascribe morality

[11:26] to our country. It should kind of just

[11:27] be like like you said objective truth

[11:30] history and then they kind of will make

[11:33] out of it what they got.

[11:34] >> Yeah. So I would never support

[11:37] whitewashing anything. Obviously, I

[11:38] think that if you fairly and readly, you

[11:40] know, read the founders as they are,

[11:42] you'll realize these were incredible

[11:44] men. That they were born into a world

[11:46] that they did not create, that by the

[11:49] time that they were exiting the world,

[11:51] slavery was on its way out, that the

[11:52] first ever anti-slavery convention was

[11:54] hosted by Benjamin Franklin in

[11:56] Philadelphia in 1775. I could go on and

[11:58] on and on, but I think a proper view of

[12:00] history using original texts, actual

[12:02] quotes, and going into the actual

[12:04] context of the time, I think actually

[12:07] creates a sense of pride and a sense of

[12:09] gratitude for living in that nation. So,

[12:12] happy to dive into that further. I don't

[12:13] think we're going to explore that, you

[12:14] know, much more because I know we're low

[12:15] on time. But I'll say this final thing

[12:18] is that this is where we'll have

[12:19] clarity, but not agreement on this one

[12:21] issue. I believe there is an objective

[12:23] ethical code. I I believe that there is

[12:26] an objective ethical code of how we

[12:27] treat people that are less powerful than

[12:29] us of a proper way to organize society

[12:32] of what the highest form of existence

[12:35] for a human being should be. I think one

[12:37] of the great road maps in addition to

[12:39] the Bible which is the greatest road map

[12:40] but one of the road maps that isn't

[12:42] taught Aristotle's ethics of what does a

[12:44] properly sold man look like courage

[12:46] contemplation justice friendship all

[12:48] these things that need to be wrestled

[12:50] with and asked the question about I

[12:52] think that if we say that there's no

[12:54] such thing as objective morality then

[12:55] we're in nothing more than a power

[12:56] dynamic which some people in control of

[12:58] our country actually believe. But thank

[13:00] you so much for being here tonight.

[13:01] Appreciation.