Let's let's just start off right now just kind of at the top here. Uh when when all of this happened uh what what were what was your first reaction and did this seem like it was going to be a clear-cut case of just some crazy 22-year-old just went crazy and shot somebody? >> I mean obviously I was horrified. Uh I was one of the first YouTubers to go live uh within minutes of it happening. I had a niece I had a niece that was down there. She texted into the family, "Charlie Kirk's been shot in the neck and I was like, uh, I'm on his ex account right now. He's handing out hats." And then all of a sudden, boom, the news started to hit. So, I immediately went live. I was trying not to cry and throw up. Um, obviously, it was a very violent u murder. Um but then I I started just gathering information as I do as a as a journalist trying to help myself, my audience, family members to understand what was going on. And then as information started to drip out, I started just keeping a list of what's what's uh being portrayed in the media, what do we know for real? And then over the course of a couple of weeks, I've just started to build this mental map of what I think happened, the questions that I have, the questions that I don't know that will ever get answered. And then about two weeks after, I said to myself, hey, what if I'm just missing a lot of this? I'm going to actually drive to the crime scene and I'm going to put myself into Tyler Robinson's shoes and I'm going to walk the entire crime scene. And after doing that, I I've had a lot of holes punched in my own theory about the crime, about the location, about whether it's Tyler Robinson, whether it was a 306 boltaction rifle. A lot of questions have come up. Well, yeah, they indeed have. And those uh in fact, I don't want to bury the lead here. One of the reasons I was specifically excited to have you on the show here is because of a show you did on your channel last night. And by the way, we'll uh Gary, if you could put that link in the in the description so that people can go and watch that and we highly recommend you watch the entire thing. Uh you put produced what I consider something pretty close to ironclad proof that it was not a highowered 300 6 rifle bullet. a high velocity bullet, which is what was claimed by the government that caused the damage that we saw there. I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about that. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, the the story is he struggles to get on the roof. They don't know how he got on the roof. They don't know how the gun got up all of there. Uh I can tell you, Danny, from walking the crime scene, as just a YouTuber with no military or assassination experience, I was able to get to the roof in about 10 seconds. So, whoever was on that roof and laid down with that gun, uh, that would not be a very hard thing to do. My understanding from speaking with hunters, shooters, military people like yourself, if you have a high-powered scope, it also would not be a difficult shot, right? So, as I get there, I I start realizing like this is not what I thought it was. That the media has been leading us to believe this had to be a professional sniper or something like that. Now, uh, what I broke yesterday on my story was I've been able to connect with several people high up in the Turning Point USA, uh, organization and ask them questions. Some of them they allowed me to ask on camera. Some of them they said, "You can ask and we'll give you the answer we know, but we don't want to be on camera." And then there was stuff shared with me that's off the record that as a journalist I I'm not going to share. But the thing that was uh shocking to me was they they said that uh the the person who uh the the the surgeon, the doctor that was there with them, my guess is from the autopsy report that we now know for a for a fact happened uh is that this bullet comes in just under the jawline. And we we've all seen the hole in the video, but apparently it crashes in on at an angle on the C2 vertebrae right there behind the the bottom teeth. Right. So, it crashes in there, but it's coming in at an angle. I don't know the exact angle. Chris Martinson says it's a 10% angle. I believe it might have been a higher angle than that, but according to what I was told, this bullet completely smashes through C2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and completely destroys his neck, which when you're looking at the footage, you see the bodyguards, they're taking a very long time to get Charlie picked up and moved. At first, I thought it was just his body. You know, he's like 6 and 1/2 ft tall. He would be heavy. uh you know a limp body just like carrying a child to sleep that's asleep. It's heavy to carry a body that is completely limp. Uh and so this this completely smashes through. I think the reason that they were struggling is his head was completely nearly dismembered uh by smashing through all of those. And then according to what I was told they found the bullet uh but right around the C7 T1 thoracic vertebrae. Now, it wasn't just right under the skin. Like, you wouldn't have said, "Oh, what's this lump? That looks like a bullet." And they like, but it was right in that meaty area where the neck connects into the shoulder and connects into the the thoracic. >> Can you put that that skull picture back up there so we can see the Yeah, that C7 right there. Right. Right. Right about where the shoulder blade looks like connects. >> Yeah. And each you can see each vertebrae going to the right gets a little bit longer. C7 connects into T1. So, right in that meaty, strong area, that's where they find the bullet. Now, the other thing that was said to me was that's where they found the main slug. There were also fragments of the bullet in other areas. I was not told the other areas. Uh, so that tells me that whatever bullet that was came in on an angle, immediately smashed through those bones, and then gets stuck. that, you know, makes him paralyzed, which is why his hands go up. His heart there, there's like this cavitation of energy. Boom. You can just see that. Some people thought it was an explosion. Uh, now we know it was that cavitation. His heart immediately stops. But then they're finding fragments of whatever this bullet is. Now, I was told never never was 306 bullet mentioned. It was always just referred to as the bullet. So, >> you're talking about the medical staff. >> That's that that's what I was that's what I was told from somebody at Turning Point USA who was uh getting this report from uh the the medical staff there. So, now I don't have the autopsy. I don't have the coroner's report. It may say a 306 and then we're back to square one, right? But what I was told was it was not referred to as a 306 bullet, just as the bullet. and and from what you're describing, we actually had uh uh Larry Johnson on the show who who is a weapons expert yesterday. He also talked about the cavitation issue. He showed us a still of that, but but he also described there are different kinds of rounds that would have to be at a lower power rating than a 300 6, which is a very high velocity bullet. Uh and and the kind that you might see that some police officers use like a hollow point or or a different kind of round that's designed not to go through a body. So that would imply also it wasn't a 306, but until we get, you know, look at that bullet, we can't tell. But based on the evidence, almost certainly that was not a 30 six. Yes, I I agree. Uh none none of it makes sense to me because as I watched the footage over and over again, I just kept think because remember for almost two weeks, we were told we don't know where the bullet is. We don't know where the bullet is. Right? So then I started watching the footage from his left. I started watching it from the right. There's no blood, no blood missed. There's no blood splatter. Candace Owens was able to see one of the three Turning Point USA 4K videos. She said there's no wound on the back of his head. There's no wound on the back of his neck. Right. And so, um, that that leads me to believe that this story of the bullet being in there is true. It crashes through all these bones, but I don't know what that bullet is. And I don't I don't I don't just from everything that I've heard and seen, common sense tells me it's not a 306 because that would have blown through and we would have seen blood splatter everywhere. You would have seen a hole through the Turning Point USA banner. >> People behind there would have had a a bullet whizzing through the tunnel where they they carried his body out. None of that happened. So I do believe the bullet is in him, but it does not make sense to be a 306. >> Right. And in fact, let let me let me show our audience here a video that was recently done. Uh I think in large part because of this claim, buy a boltaction 306 rifle uh against a cow neck and against a big slab of meat. Watch this. We're not only going to take a cow femur, but for anybody that says, "Wow, there's no there's no meat." We're going to slap on a fat 4 in of beef in front of the cow femur and see what happens. Then give them thick skin like Nate. All right, last test on the meat again. Cow femur, bunch of beef, thick tape, and then we're going to move up to the steel. Here we go. >> Well, we can't. Everything exploded. >> All right, let's check it out. >> Cow femur. the damage to that literally snapped in half >> there in in my assessment based on my experience with with high velocity rifles or medium velocity there is zero chance that that bullet could have even been a miracle could have stayed in there. So in my view it is definitely not a 30 odd six but what it was is anybody's guess right now. >> Okay. So here here's another thought uh Danny that has just been perplexing my mind. Um, and again, I I go back and forth. I don't claim to 100% understand this this crime, but uh we don't know that the gun hidden in the the wooded area by someone's chicken coupe, we don't know that that gun was ever on the roof. So, >> well, that's exactly where I wanted to go next because the reason why everybody's saying it's a 30 on six is because that's what we were told by authorities that it was. So, and Gary, go to that other one first. This this was from NBC News when they were telling us and they expressly said a 306. The gun recovered was a 30 odd six caliber rifle, which indicates that at some point the barrel was replaced with a more modern one. Blah blah blah. That's what was a close. And then they had this photograph here. They said this was the actual weapon. Now, here's one of the first things that at least from what we can see in this photograph provided by the FBI or the the the Utah police, whoever it was, is that this does not look like one of those that you can disassemble rather easily. Just click and uncclick it or whatever. And the impression or the implication being that this is how they found it. Now, if if this weapon was intact when the person who's claimed to be the shooter jumped off the roof there, and Gary's been showing that video there, then you're going to have to see this thing sticking out somewhere. And as you watch him all the way across, there's not. Now, a lot of people said, "Oh, well, it was disassembled and put in his backpack," which we do see. But then that would imply then that he went to the PL drop off point according to the text, reassembled it, put it there to be found, and then that's why we have this picture here. So, this just just it ain't lining up. >> Yeah. Okay. So, but here's the thing. We we we know they found a gun. We know it was in that wooded area. We we know that that had a 306 casing in it, but we don't know that that was on the roof. We don't know that that was shot on September 10th at Charlie Kirk. All we know is that there is a casing in a gun that we don't know if that gun was on the roof. It It could have certainly been Tyler Robinson with a less powerful rifle. It could be somebody else completely and he is a pathy in some way. May maybe they said, "Hey, uh we saw you looking at nasty stuff on the internet. They blackmail him. All we need you to do is drop a gun off in the woods and you're done." Right? So, I I don't know who was on that roof and I don't know the the rifle, but I'm telling you based on the bullet and the injury, a 306 doesn't make sense. So, we have to be careful not to say, "Well, someone was shot and we found a gun." Because we don't know that it was that gun. And then there you see him. You running across the grass right there. And you just you just don't there's just no rifle that's sticking out there. I mean, you can see, especially when you stop this and go in short, and you can see there's some people coming up. There's some people on the edge of the side of the sidewalk there. If the guy had a gun, there's been people would have seen it. And you could see it here on the video, too. Even though it's a a very, you know, low uh frame rate uh image there, you would definitely have been able to see if there was a rifle there. And there's no rifle there. It's it's pretty clear as you can see it going all the way through. But then that that leads to the question is then why were we told that it was 30 odd six? Why were we told that it had all these engravings on it, which I have not yet seen. All I've so far only heard that that's what was, you know, written on them. We haven't seen any of those. And maybe you have, but I haven't. Uh, so now we're getting into the problems here because if the government is telling us it was that rifle, it was 30 six and that they have the casings, but then we there's virtually no chance on this planet with the laws of physics that that wound could have been caused by that round. Then what is going on? >> Yeah. I I I just think here's what we know there. There was a shot that went into Charlie Kirk's neck. We don't know what it is, but then they find this gun that is a 3006 boltaction mouser uh that has a casing in it with no with no bullet. So there like the we're I think we're kind of jumping jumping to conclusions by saying that was the gun and the bullet that used to be in the casing that was still in the gun. That has to be the one. But we don't know that because we're not getting from the FBI. Uh what what type of bullet is it? If if it's a 306 bullet and that's verified by ballistics, then great. Okay. Now we have another mystery that we have to solve. But until we find out what kind of bullet that is, I believe we're kind of jumping to conclusions that that gun found in the woods is the same one that that took the shot. Now, presumably all that kind of stuff would come out in a trial. Uh and and I I it seems to me that this could put the FBI in a really bad light if it comes out. It turns out that he says, "Oh, I was just a passy. I was just like you speculated here maybe that it could have happened for example that he was just told to do this but uh it it seems to me that it's going to be pretty hard and what is your opinion here for the FBI to build the case that he was the guy on the roof that that was the weapon that was used uh based on the video evidence that we've seen so far. So, I I think a big piece of the puzzle that a lot of us are missing that the FBI 100% has this is we have very limited photos and video, but according to them, he come he comes on campus at around 11:50. He goes down through a tunnel. That's where we pick up that picture that you guys showed. Uh he's very careful to hide his face. I' I've walked the same path. So, he's very careful to hide his face. He then walks through this area where semitrs can can back up to drop off food uh for the the university cafeteria. He then enters the Losi building. He makes his way up to the roof through the building and over on uh I don't have a map in front of me, but there's a there's a staircase where you can literally uh Oh, right right where you see the word Losi center. >> Yeah. >> Where Ce Ner is there. There's a a staircase right there. You walk up, you can literally get on the roof in 10 seconds. >> Oh, wow. >> Uh and and you can run out, lay down, and take that shot. Um so I I personally believe whoever was on the roof, I believe the FBI has video of them taking the shot. I believe they have. >> Yeah. Y this one question I wanted to ask you. you you had made some mention that there was a lot more camera angles than anything we've seen so far. Could you tell tell us a little about what you saw? >> Yeah. Uh put Gary, if you could put that m uh that uh photo back up that you just had. Okay. So, um behind the Losi center to the right on this particular image, there is the computer science building. That is the camera that picks him up running and jumping off the roof. There's actually two cameras that I saw. There may even be more. There's cameras down on the front. Uh there's there's several cameras that overlook the location of Charlie Kirk. As you see here on this diagram, there's several cameras there. Um so there are cameras everywhere. Now, I thought there would be more cameras, but I don't think that we need a lot of cameras. I think what we're all frustrated with is that the FBI definitely has these images and these videos, but they're not going to release it because now we're in a we're in a trial where they're trying to get a conviction. So, they're going to the the the onus on them is going to be to prove that he put the gun up there, that he's the one that went up there, that he laid down, pulled the trigger, the bullet matches what the gun does. They're going to have to place all of that together. I think one of the biggest things that uh will work for or against them is you can track somebody's cell phone data. So, they've got a path of him walking just based on a as his cell phone is pinging the different cell phone towers. So, that's going to be a big one. I believe that they probably have more pictures of whoever this individual is that they're not showing to us because >> well in fact and one of our one of our viewers in the audience there has just said this. I can't validate it but they is just coming in says that apparently they do have video of the guy climbing onto the roof and shooting his rifle. Now I'd like to see that. That's what they claim. I I haven't seen that, but just Danny, just based on the video, you you know, we're we're shown him running and jumping off the building, right? That same camera sees right to where the sniper was laying down. They would have seen the shot. So, all of that, I believe, is on camera. I believe they cut it off because they need that for the trial, not for the public trial, not for the social media trial. Right. So, I I believe that they have a lot more video and image, but they're not going to release it to us because they only needed us to identify him and then boom, now this goes to criminal justice. And I guess to to what extent would it be important to have that those videos that they did release uh as opposed to others that could have shown the guild? Seems like that might actually help them. But I mean, even that video that Gary keeps showing right there, it it's it's very pixelated. It's uh you know, slow fra frame rate. Is that enough to to confirm that that's the guy uh this uh Robinson? So, my my guess is they're they're going to use his cell phone and plot out all the cameras. They pick him up going from 800 Street through the tunnel through the Losi building up onto the roof. So, I believe that whoever that is, I they're saying Tyler Robinson, I don't believe they would have arrested him if they didn't have a very strong uh ability to convict him. So, he goes up there uh and then they have they have this person running, right? But again, we don't like they're going to have to show that there was a gun already up there or that he climbed over and put it together with a screwdriver and then ran out. One one thing that uh I believe is misinformation is there at first there was this idea that he changed his clothes on the roof. I don't believe that happened. I he could have put the gun together on the roof, but there's no way that he took the gun apart and then ran off. That's why everyone's saying, "Oh, you can see it's wrapped in a towel and you can kind of see something." But once he jumps off, if you zoom in on that video, that towel is pretty loose. >> Yeah. If you if you had, you know, a 30-inch gun or whatever the the measurement is, that thing is very stiff and rigid, you would not see a towel being floppy. So, again, they're they're going to have to put this whole thing together. The trial is going to show us a lot. See, watch this. When he comes down over, you can kind of see him lay something down, but then when he jumps, you for a moment, right? >> Yeah, that towel looks pretty flimsy. So, let me ask you something. Yeah. So, let me ask you something, though. The original video that they showed of him that they released saying that he was walking towards the crime scene, it showed him limping, implying that, well, he had the thing in his in his pants pocket. That's why you want anybody to see it. Like, it wasn't something he had to put together, but he already had. But then, as you see here, he's definitely not limping on the way out, and yet I still don't see a rep a weapon. How do you uh corroborate those two things? Um, I can't because um, Gary, if you go back to the the photos where he's coming up the stairwell, uh, you you can see he's he's he's bending his left leg, but then if there's another photo of him, he's bending his right leg. So, from from him limping on 800th Street to entering the tunnel and coming up the stairs, he's not limping anymore. It does not appear there's anything in his pants. You do see the outline of a cell phone and he stops right there and takes out the cell phone and looks at it and then puts it away and keeps walking. That's why I say, "Oh, they've got to have a trail on him with his cell phone." But he he walks up these stairs. It does not appear that there's a gun stuffed down his pants anymore. So, was he limping on is he pretending to limp so that we think it's somebody with a disability in his leg? Does he have the gun here at this point? There there's still a lot of questions that I can't answer. >> Yeah, but this just just again just I mean even here you can see with his right leg I guess that's where they presume it would be. It still bends a little bit but now Gary if you can go back to that uh the photograph of on the stairwell. Uh let's see. I guess it's his in this case the left leg gets bent hard but the in this one you can see the right but again you would have to see I mean like you said you can see the outline of a of a of a phone you could certainly see the outline of a of a gun in this angle if there was one in there don't you think >> yeah and the the picture that they have of him going down the stairs that's where he's going into the the um the tunnel and you can see the outline of a cell phone in his right jean pocket and then he walks down that but there there's It appears there's no gun stuffed down his pants. So like where and if he took it out in the tunnel then he would have have to leave it in the tunnel. So that's why I'm saying it it like there's a lot of things that aren't making sense. I'm now starting to wonder if he was pretending to limp because he knew there was going to be a camera and he's trying to throw people off because when he runs he runs on the roof he's not limping when he gets >> I mean he's not even limping after jumping off like an 18t tall building. He's not. Yeah, there we go. That right pocket. That's not a gun. That's a cell phone. And he actually stopped right there. >> He pulls it out and looks, but it does not appear that there's anything stuffed down his pants. >> That is a big big point. I'm so glad you pointed that out. >> Unless it's down the back of his leg. But again, when he's when he's turning the corner on the other photo that Gary showed again, like there's I'm not seeing I'm not seeing anything that indicates a gun in that in that back the back side of those jeans. >> Now, one other thing from this this uh this version you can see here I want you to address is the cap. He's wearing a cap in this, but there's some other photographs that seem to imply a different kind of cap. Can you speak about that? >> Yeah, absolutely. This This just jumped out at me last night, Danny. Um, so they've kind of blurred it out. I think they did that on purpose. So there there's multiple shots of his hat and there it's just a little bit grainy, but when I started looking at these hat logos online, the closest thing I can find that kind of looks like a triangle is maybe like an Adidas logo or something. But all of the photos where they're trying to get you to tie together, oh, this is definitely Tyler Robinson. Look at him in this gray hat. That hat is a hurly hat. It's an H. So, it's not it's not the same hat. Now, that doesn't mean it is or isn't him. I'm just saying it's not the same hat. Now, where they may get Tyler Robinson is, according to the FBI report, they have a screwdriver with his prints on it. They have a palm print from when he goes off the roof. They have a Converse shoe print on the roof where he jumps off and where he leaves the gun at the chicken coupe. So, there's a little trail of evidence that they're probably going to use in the trial. And so, let's uh let's move on to the next category of of challenges here. And that is on the allegation that they recovered this text messages back and forth between his uh roommate/boyfriend or whatever. Uh lot of people a lot of experts that I've seen have said that the language used in there is nothing even close to what a millennial would use like vehicle and drop point instead of car or whatever. Uh a lot of other things that would be there that aren't etc. Uh what what is your understanding of those kind of issues? >> Yeah. Um that that's one that's really been bothering me as well. I did I did want to say one thing that is uh has also been kind of a weird thing for me is from the time he goes onto UVU campus until he's gone. That whole thing is 33 minutes and it also took 33 hours to find him. I don't know. It's probably a coincidence. I just think it's weird. 33 minutes on the crime scene, 33 minutes from the crime to find him. a little bit weird. But um so so the text messages um they they do read weird. There's gaps which make it look like there was deleted stuff. Specifically on Lance Twig's side. Uh the language does not sound like a 22year-old squad car vehicle. Um uh what were the other words? Uh there there's a few other words. >> His outfit. outfit retrieve. I've got to retrieve the gun. Uh there was a Thank you, Gary. There was a couple of things like that that I was like, that's that's really weird. There's also some gaps. But here's the thing that I keep thinking that I can't find the original source. Where did those texts come from? Did like, did someone at the FBI leak them? Did they hand them over to the Daily Mail? Like, where did those come from? I I've got to be honest. I reported on them as if they're true, and they may be, but a couple of nights ago, I said to my wife, you know, I don't know the original source of those. >> Well, the the the uh the the first press conference, the uh the guy from from Utah. >> Okay. Read them out. That's where I first saw them before I even found the the the printed version. So, it definitely came out from an official. >> Okay. So, thank you. Because I I've been trying to find the original source. the the furthest I could track it back was to Andy NGO who does a lot on Antifa and and trans violence and things like that. So, um again, just it the the text messages, they don't make a lot of sense now. Okay, now look at this. Uh see where uh about halfway down on the left, it says roommate Robinson dot dot dot >> and there's like a gap in the text and then roommate Robinson and then there's a gap and a dot dot dot Robinson. that I'm being told means that somebody, whether it's Lance or Tyler, was deleting messages that that's like that gap is proof that there was deleted uh text messages there. So, I I don't know if they'll be able to recover that um or or how these are going to play in, but yes, my my gut my first gut reaction was this doesn't sound like a 22y old. and and nor does it sound like you know somebody who's who's revealing that this was a uh u you know a crime that they just committed. There's too many things that they have to that he's explaining like if you're talking to somebody that is your intimate person. You don't have to explain you know who you are or who this person was or you know like my old man. Does anybody talk like that anymore? I mean that's something from my day you know my old man you know and I'm worried about him or so. So so just it just doesn't sound authentic. I'll just tell you that. >> Yeah, I I will say he does come from a small town uh in Utah, and they may talk a little bit more old-fashioned than than somebody in the the city, but um so uh another thing that I've been able to do is uh make a relationship with Lance Twig's cousin. And Lance Twig is no longer in the state of Utah. He's actually gone into witness protection. Nobody knows where his where he is except for >> Lance Twig is the roommate. >> He he is the the boyfriend. Correct. Okay. >> Um so nobody knows where he is. He is under lock and key with the FBI. My understanding is they pull him out regularly to talk to him. So I don't know if he is still a suspect or if he is a key witness against Tyler Robinson. But either way, uh you know, Daily Mail broke that he has vanished. I was able to make this connection with a cousin that said, "Yeah, uh, the parents have said none of the siblings know where they are. None of the cousins know where they are. Uh, but the the FBI does, and they're questioning him regularly." So, he he's in witness protection, but he could still be a prime suspect. I'm not ruling out that he knows. So, going back to the text messages, you you mentioned that this reads very odd, like everything that they would need in order to place him at the crime, the gun, where he put it, how he pulled it off, his motive, all of that in a text chain. That sounds really weird. Part of me believes, and I have no evidence of this, but part of me believes this thing was orchestrated to make the boyfriend look like he had no idea what Tyler Robinson was going to do. I can't prove that. That's just a gut feeling I have. Uh >> oh, you went mute. >> Sorry about that. Uh, one of the other things that that did kind of jump out at me from the text in a different sort of way uh is is that he claimed how how long have you been planning this? One week about a week, I think was the exact phrase that he used. And I'm just going how and and I may be asking you more than you have knowledge to answer here, but the question that I had that I have no answer for is how do you go from someone with no criminal background of any sort to a murderer in a week where you plan all this stuff and then execute it? And you obviously have to have knowledge about, you know, where the thing is going to be set up, where your line of sight is because from the location that he chose, uh, it had a very narrow line of sight because of another building that was nearly in between there. It just just doesn't quite ring true to me. Do you have any thoughts on that? >> Um, so if the shot was taken from there, it is like the easiest to get to sniper nest and it's actually a really great sniper nest. It had a very clear uh line of sight to Charlie Kirk. that triangular building that comes out. I believe he kind of used that as camouflage right there where in where the right in the middle of this red line from where he shoots to Charlie. That's a triangular building. That's the cafeteria. But it does give cover to his perch and then he shoots between the building and this tree right there. Boom. If if that's the location, right? So, and again, I I could get to that spot in about 10 seconds. Um, and and we know from people walking up this path in the lower right hand corner, they got a video of him laying down. So, we know somebody was right there. What we don't know is is that where the shot actually took place and was it the rifle that they found in the woods? That's what they're going to have to prove. >> Yeah. And and and what about the aspect of the the fact that it was only a week? I mean, how how do you if I could ask you to speculate a little, how do you go from I just don't like this guy because he said he was getting more politically attuned and aggravated over the previous year or something, but did you go from, you know what, I'm just going to kill him when that just seems it just seems a little odd to me. >> Yeah. The only the only thing that I can maybe wrap my head around is, you know, he hadn't he hadn't come out as gay to his family, so he was he was hiding that relationship. uh he's falling in love with somebody for the first time, maybe, you know, being sexually touched for the first time. And you build this bond to your partner, right? And and maybe Lance is just complaining and complaining and he's like, "Oh, I hate these Tik Toks." And he's seeing all these craftily, you know, edited Tik Toks that make him look like a racist and anti-f family and and questioning Israel all the time and and and you just start to build this anger. If if there was anything, I think he probably did it on behalf of this love relationship. It's the only thing I can think of because how do you go from like a Christian upbringing in a small town to I'm willing to pull the trigger and die or go to jail the rest of my life? It it doesn't make any sense to me. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's the that's the that's the the other really big question I have. you know, for for this to even have allegedly been him, there's got to be some kind of a pattern or that's drawn that says here how he got radicalized because it it is a radical step to murder someone and go to all this trouble. So, somebody's got to show some kind of a path that he didn't just wake up, you know, seven days before and go, you know what, I'm just going to kill the guy. I mean, I don't know that that's just something that I think needs to be needs to be analyzed because and this is kind of now expanding the scope a little bit here. One of the problems that a lot of people have or the concerns and I share this concern is that there seems to be a big rush to judgment that this was some vast leftwish conspiracy that he was like part of here and then we need to start going after all these leftist groups. What have you seen anything that would address that part of the equation? >> Uh the state of Utah and Cash Patel have said that they're going to be looking into all of this, even the conspiracy theories that no stone will be left unturned. Um, you know, a lot of people want to blame Israel for this. Uh, they want to blame some, you know, Transifa gang or or something. Maybe maybe there's truth to that. I don't know. But as of right now, it just looks like a very angry person who wasn't willing to have dialogue at the microphone, so they picked up a gun. Uh, and and it's truly sad. But I'm I'm just not seeing anything. Like every now and then the Daily Mail or somebody, they'll drip out. Oh, they're looking into this group or this group, you know, was was trans and the person's an immigrant from Iran and but there there's nothing really connecting it just yet that I've seen. >> Well, and and part of me hopes that's exactly how it turns out. Uh just because if it's going to it's enough of a tragedy the way it's happened and uh you know, I don't want it to be used as pretext to go after somebody else just out of emotions. But at the same time, if it turns out that there are any fingers on his behind him, then 100% want that exposed uh also because otherwise somebody could be getting away with murder and we don't want that. Uh last question I got for you here and and uh from the time that you went out here, uh there's lots of things like Gary's showing on here where there's it seems to be some deconstructing of the crime scene itself. And I wonder if you can tell us a little bit about what you may have seen and if you have any idea why they were uh changing a lot of the tiles and tearing up grass here. So, uh, my my best guess is once they figured, uh, once they finished all of their investigation, the ballistics, uh, you know, look, looking at I I think there's actually been a lot more forensic science than any of us know because when you go to the internet or X and you search this, it goes from he shot one day to a grassy area with a bunch of litter to them repaving and people jump to conclusion, oh, there was no investigation. But if you start looking up local newspapers, KSL, um ABC Utah, and all that, there's there's tons of photos. There was cops crawling all over here. There was people in military fatigues with rifles there. Uh there was detectives. There were people on the roof. There were drones that were sent up. There were people walking the crime scene. There were people uh looking at all the diff different ballistic angles. So, there's actually a lot more investigation that people are just didn't see. And then, yeah, it is really suspicious. All of a sudden, they rip out all that grass and now they're reseming the tunnel. What we don't know is were they going to do something with that tunnel beforehand because there was no bullet. There was no The only thing I can think of about the grass is blood and bodily fluids are considered a biohazard. So, they they would have had to rip that out. Now, why they didn't just replace it with grass versus these stone pavers, I don't have an answer for that, but they they would have had to rip that grass out either way. And so, maybe they just made a decision, hey, people instead of walking across grass, let's just cuz there's a stairwell that comes down, it goes across grass, and then there's another one that goes up. So, maybe they just said, "Yeah, screw it. We're going to just make these cement papers." I don't know. It is very suspicious, but that's the only explanation I can come up with. >> You know what? That's what I thought was uh curious is that they never secured the crime scene after it happened. They got him out of there. They carried the body out and you saw numerous people going back and forth and back and forth stepping on things, removing cameras there. I never saw once did yellow tape go out and and secure the area. I've never seen that. >> Yeah. And that's what I was trying to say is like it it kind of goes from crime scene to now it's empty with litter. People are getting SD cards. people were stealing Charlie Kirk hats and stuff. Um, but the the next the next like 36 hours that place is quarantined. They they actually caught a guy. You can you can look this up. They got a guy who went in pretending to be a doctor and he was taking photos. He was going through the crime scene. I don't know if he was like a true crime pro podcaster, but you see the police walking out. One of them's holding a rifle. The guy's in scrubs and a fake doctor jacket. So, I I don't know. Like I I agree that it doesn't seem that they secured it, but if you look up like KSL and other local, you can see there's so many photos. This place was crawling with investigators. >> Wow. Uh one uh I guess one final question because it just occurred to me before we let you go. Uh if you have any knowledge there in a number of the video angles that you've seen of the crowd especially uh you have this what has been referred to as the old dude who almost instantly said I'm the shooter and held up while everybody else you see everybody's duck and he seems to have stood up and seemed to be pretending to have a gun or something. That pretty seems pretty odd to me too. Do you have any any insight into that part? >> No. I mean like what a weird thing to do, right? like someone's uh shot. Obviously, a lot of lot of blood. This guy jumps up. It was me. I did it. Uh he he gets arrested. It's a huge distraction for whoever's on the roof to get off. Yeah. This Zin character. Uh dragged out. His pants fall down. Everyone's screaming, "You're a horrible human being." So, um he did make a statement that he just wanted to go down in history as being a part of it, but I don't I don't know whether there's any coordination. If there is, it will come out in the trial. But he has since been arrested for having uh child pornography on his cell phone. >> He's also curiously he was also curiously been in many other places over the course of years as being on site. I can't remember at the moment exactly, but it was almost the chances of him are almost one in a million that he'd be at these particular events. uh 911. He was some part of that and a few other events or you you wouldn't think someone like this uh who's basically, you know, since everybody's been looking him up, he's been uh you know, signal. Yeah, there we go. Um identified as an agitator basically if nothing else. >> Yeah. I I mean I don't know a lot about his past. Somebody said something about the Boston Marathon bombing, >> right? That's the other one he was 911, right? >> Um I mean I don't I don't know a lot about him. All I know is what a weird thing to do. Someone's just been killed. You try to take the blame to cause a distraction and then uh you end up being arrested and having kitty porn. I mean, what a weird thing. And then make that one up, man. >> Well, and to continue that theory, the reason why they he's pegged with having porn on his uh you know, child pornography on his phone is is that so that he's now, you know, quarantined away so that no one can talk to him. So there's no way to find out, you know, more about his situation, what he'd have to say for himself. >> Yeah. Yeah. I know. what it I mean it really does play out like a weird novel. >> Yeah. And I have a great confidence that there's a lot we still don't know and a lot more crazy things yet to be discovered. Uh but uh listen, we really appreciate you coming on today because this especially with with some of the evidence that we have now that this was nearly certainly in fact I will say I'll just go it wasn't a 306 like we're being told. Uh and what's that going to mean? So, we're going to there's a lot of answers that the FBI needs to come up with and a lot of people are going to hold their feet to the fire on that. One of which is you, I know, and we're going to keep watching your show uh to find out as you get it more information. So, really appreciate you coming on and sharing with us today. Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot more will come out in the trial and we'll be covering it. The last thing I will say is Turning Point USA, the the 4K cameras that are on Charlie, all of that has been handed over to the FBI. So, they have this captured in 4K. Like, we're all looking at blurry cell phones and zoomed in and copies of copies of copies. This this murder is filmed in 4K. I don't know that we'll ever see that, but the FBI does have that. >> Well, let's hope they put it to proper use. Indeed, >> that's all I'll say on that. Uh, thank you very much for being on the show today.
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