Inside the Charlie Kirk Case: The Story the Media Won’t Cover with Ian Caroll & Jesse On Fire

[music] Hello everyone and happy Tuesday. I know many of you guys are still on Charlie Kirk's case much like I am and I know many of you have many questions that have not been answered yet. So, I wanted to do this episode to go over everything we have, focus on details that we need to focus on, and kind of tune out the noise around the case. And I decided the best person to bring in for today's show is Young Carol because I mean, who who's better than him when it gets to Charlie Kirk and investigating this case? So, um, let's bring him on and I'm going to try and break down this case for you guys, what we have so far, if there's any new developments, and what should we be focusing on as for now. Uh, Yan, thank you so much for coming. I know many people know you already, but let me introduce you um and who you are and what you do. So, Ian is an independent researcher. Uh, he's exceptionally good at investigative journalists, better than most investigative journalists that I know. So, I highly recommend you go and check check out his channel on YouTube. It's called Young Carol Show. He's got some amazing stuff there that most people wouldn't even touch um wouldn't even cover. So, thank you for all your work that you do and thank you for coming and joining me this morning. >> It's my pleasure, Elizabeth. >> So, Yan, there are some new developments in this case. Um I know you're on it. I've never left this case since day one and I'm always kind of tuned in of what's going on. So, let's start with what are the new developments and what is your take on them and then I want to establish some kind of timeline and tell people the story of Charlie Kirk's assassination from the beginning to the end. Yeah, there's some important distinctions to draw at the start, too. Um, in terms of where is evidence coming from, what evidence can you trust? Uh, what degree of confidence can you assign to that trust? And, uh, what does that what does each piece of evidence actually mean? Because it's great that we're dealing with this in an open uh, sort of free environment on the internet and that we have independent journalists kind of analyzing everything together. But that does also lead to a lot of uh questionable evidence that we don't really have verified getting run all the way out as well as evidence that might mean something but sort of is might get over interterpreted as meaning more than we necessarily know it does that then gets run all the way out. So it's it's easy for people to kind of think there are facts in the case that we really don't know as facts yet or think there's things we don't know that we do have evidence about. And yeah, we're in this interesting time now where a lot of the official releases have already happened and Cash Battel has been very clear that he sort of is done with the public disclosure of this case. So now the new developments that are coming out are coming out from leaks and from the public square and from various journalists and whistleblowers. Um, a lot of it is coming from Candace, although she's been on a break for the last two weeks. And um, a lot of it is coming from like whatever new video is hitting X today. And it's hard to always verify exactly how much we should trust each piece of evidence. And so there there sort of is a crowdsourced analysis of each individual piece that's being done. >> That's crazy to me how they, you know, we'll talk about the gag order and we'll talk about how Kesh Patal just conveniently says that you know what guys, even though Charlie was a public figure loved by, you know, all these young Americans, you get to know nothing about this case. just trust us because FBI has established this amazing history of uh you know always telling us the truth, right? So it it's ridiculous. But I do want to talk about gag order. Why do you think they needed a gag order to shut people up? Like why now? Were we too close? >> Um it's that is the million-dollar question, isn't it? Because we don't know what we don't know. We don't know what's not >> out there yet. We don't know what might be being protected. And you know, there there are good reasons to have a gag order in a limited way in certain types of investigations. There's perfectly legitimate reasons for that. But the way that this gag order is structured and the way that the judge seemed to the new judge, by the way, seemed to speak about it in court um verbally sort of implied that the gag order kind it might and maybe does apply to everyone that was a witness, everyone that was there, everyone that was involved, everyone that is a potential witness. Um which is completely insane and uh unprecedented um for the most part as far as I can tell. And so to me, it looks like the FBI has put out what limited information it's going to put out. And that was not satisfactory to the public at all. It actually inspired more questions and conspiracy theories and speculation than when we knew nothing. >> And and now that they have sort of finished putting out any information from, you know, the official channels, we're in this period before the trial after official disclosure. And I suspect that there's certain things that they don't want getting out. Um, clearly they've not wanted students speaking about their on the ground experience at all. Almost all mainstream reporting found anyone but students to talk to, whether it's like ex- politicians or, you know, security people or turning point. >> Almost no students got [laughter] to speak. And um there's also an element of >> what other footage might be out there and what what might that get in the way of? The only reason I can think of wanting the gag order [clears throat] is to keep the narrative clean. Um because if you're worried about contaminating the jury pool, the jury trial, uh that's pretty well already done by the FBI, releasing strange conflicting evidence that is only half of what is sort of we need in order to clarify what's going on. Um all sorts of bizarre statements by Governor Cox back and forth with what official law enforcement statements are. So the jury pool is already going to have all kinds of contamination regardless. So, it's hard to make that justification for the Scagg order. >> Yeah. And this whole lawyer case, as you know, I've been on this, you know, very, very close. And this whole lawyer case is really bizarre for me because when the whole thing happened, you know, I I knew the best thing to do is to get close to Tyler Robinson because nothing else matters, right? The only person that really can tell us what's going on is Tyler Robinson. So, we can talk about all the videos and how he jumped and when he jumped, was there a gun? was like, I don't care. The only person with answers right now is Tyler Robinson. So, I was sitting at home thinking, okay, how am I going to do this? Like, how am I going to visit this guy? Because as soon as I submit a letter in prison, they are not going to allow me to even get close because I'm a journalist. So, how else can I do it? And I decided, why don't I get this poor guy a lawyer? Issue here will be the qualification because we are not qualified to represent somebody on a death row, right? That's a specific qualification that you need. So I was advised to get someone from New York and this person I'm not going to say his name because I don't know if he approves me to say that. So he's exceptionally good. Everyone knows him in New York and not just New York but you know nationwide because he represented some very very important people in different lawsuits. So I ended up calling him and he listened to my story. He thought it was incredibly like interesting and thinking out of the out of the box. So he was like, "Yeah, I'm definitely going to represent this guy. So here's what you need to do. Why don't you somehow get in touch with parents or someone or just Tyler Robinson himself because I need to have a con consent from him to represent him. I can't solicit clients, right?" So I'm like, "All right, well, let's do this." I cannot explain to you enough how hard it was for me to get in touch with any of his relative or or friends or or Tyler Robinson himself. Now there is something undergoing. So I cannot talk about that part of the investigation. We are trying to do something to rectify this. But why should that be so hard? Like why is this guy so protected if he's just a random kid that randomly char shot Charlie Kirk because he was met that day or he hated him for like months and months there. This guy is not a threat then. He already did what he wanted to do. What is the deal with the secrecy? What do you think? I mean, there's a whole other dimension to it, too, where we were told at first that he confessed to his parents essentially and then that his parents turned him in willfully and then that it came out that actually no, that's not exactly what happened according to Governor Cox. Actually, he kind of confessed to his parents and then they kind of decided to turn him in with the help of their law enforcement buddy, but then actually Tyler did not confess to law enforcement, which is like, okay, so how do you even have him how did you arrest him if he didn't confess? Because >> exactly >> then you're just allowed to arrest people if their parents say they did a crime. Is >> someone said it? >> Is their parents saying that they did a crime enough to arrest someone? We were told he confessed. We were told they turned him, his parents turned him in, and that it's all gravy, right? And when you actually look into Lance Twigs and Tyler Robinson's online uh profiles and their history, things that their friends are telling us about them, >> it like if that was the true story, >> case closed, right? The parents should be at least, you know, somewhere available for comment or for access. >> It's not like they should be out telling the whole story, but they should be around and they're not. Lance Twigs should be around and he's not seeing as he's the key witness in the whole story as far as we know. He has disappeared completely. And so it's it's not so much that there's a smoking gun that like that proves that there's a cover up, but it's that if there wasn't a cover up, none of these things would be happening. It would be >> just smooth sailing. Um so there's just so many questions that it all brings up. >> Absolutely. And we'll talk about this Lens Tweet guy. He to me is the biggest suspect. like I don't know what this guy's up to, but I've never and I've trust me when I tell you, I've spoken to every lead investigator I could find. And just to just to connect this story, maybe someone works in their own ways and you know, they they release the witness early. Maybe someone likes to uh I don't know, keep the parent in a hotel so there's no no clown show around them. I I asked everyone, Yan, to give me tell me a story that works here. just tell me a story that works and makes sense, right? None of them were able to. So, I I want to bring in Jesse, a friend of mine. We go way back. Jess is great at um investigative journalist journalism as well. So, Jesse has his own show on YouTube. I highly recommend you guys check it out. He's been on this case forever now. And uh guys, let's break down the timeline. Okay, so welcome Jesse. Thank you for coming to the show. Thank you for joining us uh this morning. >> Thank you for having me on. Good to see you. >> Let's establish a timeline. Let's start from the day when Charlie got got killed. And we'll talk about the gun that was used, what we think about that, the bullet, all of that. Jesse, maybe you kick off with uh the day when Charlie was in Utah um kind of meeting the students and then what happened. >> Sure. So, yeah. So September 10th, he's uh you know, he's doing his his traditional um you know, the the normal thing that he does on these college campuses. He's answering questions. Um the I don't remember I I don't have the the exact times like like times of day uh locked in, but obviously he uh he gets shot after an incredibly bizarrely timed question that is extremely suspect in my opinion. So he gets asked a question about uh about statistics related to transgender shooters uh mass shooters and then before he's able to give an answer he gets shot by a transgender or you know boyfriend of transgender shooter uh according to the official story and the guy who asked him the question is a guy named Hunter Kak who is on the unfuck America tour that follows Charlie Kirk around city to city trying to run uh counter events at the exact same time that he runs these events. I've heard recordings of I mean I mean I don't know how much you want me to get into like Hunter Gozak >> all of it. This episode this episode is to break down everything we have guys and give people what FBI should have given people long time ago. So questions what [clears throat] we think what should we focus on get out of this like extra noise that that's out there. Oh, I saw this. I saw that. No. What do we know? What's factual? What should we focus on? So, please take it away. >> Sure. >> Yeah. So, they, you know, we we have a recording of someone who seems to be jumping off of a a roof from the shooters position. Uh he's carrying something. I've seen I saw So, the first time that I actually watched the video of him jumping off the roof was on your channel, Ian. And the um and and the video that you showed was ext, you know, you can like zoom in on it. You just can't tell. Like it's like it's either a towel or it's a gun under a towel. You just can't tell. After that, I subsequently saw a video that was much more high resolution than that one that did appear like there was a long thing under a towel, but you can't trust anything anymore. You know, it's like it's like, "Okay, this one's too grainy." They're like, "All right, we'll create the same one, make it high definition, and make the, you know, make the towel straight." Like, if I can make if I can have uh, you know, a video that looks real of me turning into a Tyrannosaur, probably not super hard to make it look like there is a long straight object under a towel in a video that already exists, you know. So, um, you know, they recover the, uh, they recover the the weapon in the in the woods nearby and it's a 30 odd six. It belongs to the shooter or you know they it belongs to the the primary suspect who you know coincidentally confessed through like digital means twice on Discord and through uh text message and again extremely bizarre um exchange with the boyfriend. And I, you know, I'm trying to do this and not completely derail this with like a lot of new stuff that I found in the last 24 hours related to uh uh Tyler Robinson and um and uh Lance Twigs. >> Did you see the video that just came out the other night of the guy that's got all this new information about Lance Twigs and he got all the Discord chats and everything? >> And then I had my guy take that and then go dark web on it. And uh and so yeah, I mean we a matter of fact, we should talk after this. Like we should talk. So guys, we should actually mention that for people that have not seen it, could you give a a quick breakdown before we move on with the timeline, like the the video that just came out. >> Uh yeah. So, uh guy named Turkey Tom, who does uh he does great documentaries. I've watched his channel for for a long time. He uh he apparently he did a documentary that I did not see about the um about the case about maybe a month ago and somebody reached out to him and provided uh like multiple different ways of verifying that he is actually in the friend group of uh Lance Twigs and um and uh Tyler Robinson and he just described the dynamic between the two of them, the history when they were friends and then when they became whatever more and Lance Twig is a in my I mean based off of what's in this and and it's you know it's backed up by a lot of like photographic stuff and then like their messages he I think he he must have some kind of schizophrenia and uh I would guess he's schizophrenic and also he's like one of those schizophrenic that tries to like drown his brain out with drugs and alcohol and it just makes it a hundred times worse. Like he's an he is a troubled kid. Like really really really troubled kid. And you have this other guy who is a 4.0 0 student who was a virgin prior to moving in with him. So like this is like his first sexual relationship ever is with the Lance Twig. So that whole dynamic >> searching are we on that? >> I mean that just goes into this whole other thing of analysis in terms of like the dynamic between two people like that what that's going to turn into and uh yeah I mean it's like I don't know Ian you could probably add on to that like what else is in that video? Yeah, let me um let me jump in and sort of walk the track that you just walked and sort of jump off of a number of the points you just made >> because a lot of those points open up the door to kind of the key >> pieces of what's going on here. Um >> and the first one is the gun, right? The first one is the rifle because >> before the rifle is found in the woods, there's nothing really to link Tyler Robinson to this case at all. before the rifle. It's just an unknown suspect that we have on security cameras walking around campus, walking around in these neighborhoods that TMZ has footage of. And there's, you know, speculation about a limp and speculation about a gun in the pants and things like that. But it's when the it's when the authorities actually go to the woods and find allegedly this 306 hunting rifle. um apparently there's a mouser in the woods that that's the thing that links it to Tyler Robinson because it's a heirloom given to him by his grandfather that is very distinctive like that you could not get a more identifiable unique weapon to link to a specific individual. So, in finding that rifle, that is the primary original linkage to Tyler Robinson. And then there's secondary linkages once, you know, his parents allegedly turn him in and there's allegedly a confession note and there's this digital text message confession, although they're not formatted like text messages and they don't have time stamps. So, there's a lot of questions about all the secondary supporting evidence, but it's the rifle that gets us there. >> And the rifle we have a lot of problems with. Um, partially because most ballistics experts online are saying that there's almost no way that a 306 round fired from a rifle of that level of power from the front is going to hit Charlie Kirk and not create an exit wound, not blow out the back of his neck or worse. That is a serious hole in the official narrative. >> Absolutely. >> Is that impossible? 100%. >> Yeah. I will add on real quick. I actually had this conversation with a Navy Seal and a Delta Force officer and the first thing they told me is first and foremost like we want to know what bullets he used because if he used the bullets as as old as gun, we are talking about a little bit of a different case. But if he went somewhere and got new bullets for the gun that that could support uh bullets that could be supported by that gun, then there's no way it didn't take his neck off. Like just no way. So that is a huge problem here, right? And so it's >> I never considered that the bullet like old like super super old bullets. That's Yeah, I had thought about that. >> Morphy's self-loading like a lot of extreme like a lot of people that are really into guns will self-load their own bullets, right? And there is talk of like if you self-loaded a bullet with like less powder or something maybe, but ultimately a lot of a lot of like the Navy Seals and and you know combat experience people that are talking about it still are not of the mind that that would be enough because we know factually that it was a supersonic shot as in it broke the sound barrier. We know that because of the audio signature in the videos. So that tells us that there was at least a certain amount of force and we know the round is at like if it's a 300 6 rifle it's shooting a round that is 30 caliber. So there [snorts] there is some baseline that we know, but the rifle brings up this other problem, which is that that rifle that we're told that it was is a certain size and it only breaks down in a certain way. And now we have this footage that we're told that he walks into campus and we have this various uh a couple different pieces of footage from the neighborhood where apparently Tyler Robinson parked his car and walked onto campus. But all the footage from that neighborhood is super weird because we have two different shots. um that actually have mismatching time timestamps that I think is just cuz one of their cameras has the wrong time in its computer. But 8:0 What is it? It's 8ish and 10ish are when these two time stamps are. Um [snorts] I think it's 8:20ish and 10:20ish. We have this guy in a maroon shirt with shorts and a pretty deflated little backpack walking from the neighborhood into the campus. And we're told that that's Tyler Robinson in outfit number one. Um, that is also paired with we have footage of his car driving through the neighborhood somewhere else and that same person, same outfit walking from a different part of the neighborhood that kind of lines up. But then different footage of a guy with a similar build but wearing dark long sleeve shirt, dark long pants, um, hat, sunglasses, and a bigger backpack is limping in along a similar the sameish route but 2 hours later. So somehow the official narrative is that Tyler Robinson walks in wearing one outfit, does a bunch of stuff on campus area for a couple hours, walks back out, but not by the same path. We don't get the same. We don't have any footage of him leaving. Goes and changes his outfit and allegedly puts the gun down his pants. Although a lot of people have questions about whether those pants can fit a gun in them. Let me ask you like because I realized when I looked at the charging documents, I actually did not review that partic because I know exactly like what I you know and they said that into a microphone very soon after. Is that is that in the charging documents that they say that he wore the clothes, changed the clothes, went back, changed the clothes? I I just I don't know. I have no idea. Do you know about that? >> Um so it's so bizarre. Like it doesn't really like I don't I don't even know why that became the official story, you know? It's like you have a video of a guy limping in. Like why is that not just him right there? I don't know why they even are. Do you know you understand what I'm saying? >> Yeah, I totally know what you're saying and it's an important distinction, right? And this is the question that we have to keep coming back to over and over. Is is this fact that we're discussing or this piece of the narrative we're discussing? Is it officially from the government, from the law enforcement? Is that something or or is this an extrapolation by someone that has just kind of been run with for so long that everyone thinks it's a fact? Yeah. Either way, it's a result of the fact that the backpack is not big enough to fit the rifle. There's really no way for the rifle to get on the roof unless it was planted there in advance or if it was somehow on his person when he got up there. Um, we do have a relatively strong picture of how he got to the roof. There a lot of people are confused cuz if you haven't been to the campus, it seems confusing. If you haven't carefully examined the maps in Google Earth of the campus, it seems confusing, but it's pretty straightforward from the footage that we have and the places that we know that this suspect was traveling that there's a stairwell and all that. and we have photos of them of him walking. But the issue is that in those photos of this suspect, the ones that the FBI released in order to help identify him, >> there's some photos where his right leg is bending and there's some photos where his left leg is bending. And so there's already a little bit of like questions about is a rifle really fitting down this pair of skinny jeans and is it going to cause a limp even though he can bend his knees and why would you even go on to campus in the wrong outfit, go back and get into a different outfit, and then go back and change your outfit again. It's very strange. And so actually like looking at what we know for sure based upon these figures walking around in this neighborhood at these threeish different times, this gray challenger that is Tyler Robinson's driving around the neighborhood at different times and the official statements by the authorities of where they have footage of Tyler Robinson, though they've not released it. All of those are very hard to square whether or not it's Tyler and whether or not he's the shooter. It's just hard to square how any of that movement makes any sense for anyone. Um whether you're innocent or guilty. See, that's what I call noise. Like I I from the get-go, I took this narrative that the gun was in his pants out. I was like, you're not even paying attention to it because every professional would tell you that's stupid. That that is and is especially in that skinny jeans. Okay, so that's noise. So, let's put that aside. Now, what else do we have that we need to focus on is is what we need to talk about, right? So, and this is a good point because the moment that you say it's pretty ridiculous to say that there's a rifle in these skinny jeans, then it's like, well, what gun was even on that roof? Was the shot even taken from that roof? Right? >> And there's a whole bunch of technical highle analysis by relatively expert people of the sound and whether it triangulates to indicate that is the right place for the shot, the caliber of the round and the trajectory and the impact and the video and the v visuals. Um, so there's a number of people investigating in a relatively credible way. Does that roof even line up with the shot? But then if the roof lines up with the shot, if that is where the shooter I mean, we know there's a guy on the roof. Um, although they clip the video that they gave to us in a weird way where they clearly have clear line of sight to the entire rooftop and they then give us a video that starts just like 3 seconds maybe after the shot was taken. though they clearly have video of the shooter allegedly taking the shot if they wanted to put it out there. That's right. >> Um but that's not public. So we aren't really certain that there is a shooter on that roof. But if there is, how did the rifle get there? >> And is he really carrying a long hunting rifle when he jumps off that roof? Cuz we initially there's a lot of confusion about takes the rifle apart, puts the rifle together, takes the rifle apart, puts the rifle together. But we we know clearly based upon video evidence that was released by members of the public that shows from behind Charlie Kirk looking out at the crowd, you can see that the figure on the roof is moving. He's up and running within seconds of the shot, like 2 or 3 seconds of the shot. And so when you flip that around to the FBI video from behind the shooter looking out at the courtyard, that video shows the shooter apparently running across the building about at that same time frame of like 3 seconds after the shot. This guy's running. So he's no time to take the rifle apart. So the shooter, if that's the shooter with the rifle on that roof on the Losi center, he has to be running with a fully assembled Mouser 300 6 rifle, which is enormous. Big old scope, easy to see. You can make the argument that there's a rifle in his hand in that video, although very few people see that. You can make the argument that he jumps down with it in his hand and he wanders through traffic on an open road with people walking around and none of them see this rifle. But it's all pretty um you know whatever. You get to this drop point by this chicken coop which I went and saw in person >> and then you have to ask yourself like he apparently according to the official story he drops the rifle in the woods here by this chicken coop and he changes his outfit and then leaves the rifle and goes to his car. But we clearly know that he is capable apparently of hiding this rifle in his backpack or in his pants or on his person. So, why are you leaving the murder weapon at the scene of the crime and then leaving >> with no way to go back and get it? That is the strangest behavior ever. This guy is a four, like Jesse said, 4.0 student, genius level scores on uh the ACT. Very smart guy. Um >> that's dumb. That's super dumb. Is it like enclosed? Like when you went when you went there in person, like is it is it an area that has cover where you could absolutely you could stop break it down and then put it back in the way you brought it in. >> Dude, he could have gotten naked and like done the dance. He was completely undercover when he's by that chicken coop dropping that rifle off. Very easy to take the time to disassemble it there. Very easy to stuff it into your pants. You could literally put on a panda costume and no one would notice while you're down there by that chicken. >> That is damning, >> right? And so then the official story is he leaves it there and wanders and he runs off through we see in the TMZ footage and that that TMZ footage where we see a figure running in the background that does line up with kind of the escape route out of that area back towards his car apparently. And then we have footage of his car just driving around in the area for the next like 6 hours and Candace Owens releases a photo of Tyler Robinson in Dairy Queen. It's the only photo we have that actually we can kind of confidently see his face and it's clear enough to know this is Tyler Robinson. >> But when you look at that photo, those blue jeans, so this guy in the Dairy Queen at like 6:20ish p.m. >> It's Tyler Robinson and he's wearing maroon shirt that seems to match the maroon shirt from like outfits one earlier in the day, but he's wearing dark blue jeans and like, you know, shoes and a hat and sunglasses, but the blue jeans don't look like the blue jeans that are on the character that the FBI released photos of. That guy had very worn blue jeans earlier allegedly. >> No, I mean the photos of him walking down the stairs with the glasses on. >> So I mean he would be wearing the jeans but then changed back into the shirt, not like the original maroon outfit that he walked in on like what he's wearing. >> Exactly. So I'm saying that the pants are what changed. But when you actually look at >> So So let's let's talk about the outfits. First outfit, maroon shirt, light shorts. second outfit, dark long sleeve, dark pants, right? Jeans. And then we have FBI photos of that outfit as he's walking down the stairs and walking through the tunnel. And that's the photos they tried to help identify him with. And we can see those skinny jeans in those photos. They're awfully worn out. They're faded. You can see the outline of his phone super big in his pocket. >> Those jeans don't look like the jeans that are being worn in Dairy Queen by Tyler Robinson at 6 p.m. that night. Exactly. >> The the jeans on Tyler Robinson and the Dairy Queen look very fresh and dark blue washed and not faded at all. So, just like a little note that we have three different outfits and we only have one of those photos that we really know is Tyler Robinson. Um, and it's very suspicious. And so it's like now we have this dude who apparently just killed a man for the first time just driving around hanging out apparently nonchalant ordering food and a Dairy Queen showing his face right nearby while he's apparently simultaneously text messaging his lover his boyfriend a a complete detailed confession of the crime while he's saying I I hope I don't get caught. Here's my confession. It's so >> and which which started which started with I was never going to tell anyone this. Right. >> But here's a full question. You're like, what is inciting you to be talking about this at all then? >> You know what I mean? >> Again, the guy who who's smart enough to know that all communications are monitored. Smart enough to know that we'll get to Tyler Robinson's years in college and what we know about it and what we should know about it. And but but I do want to ask one question. So, what's really bizarre here, do you remember when that uh police video came out with Tyler Robinson getting like uh in the car crash or something and you know the the body cam video? >> Did you notice that the glasses that he was wearing in that body cam video >> were very was very similar to the glasses that the guy is wearing that they are telling us is Tyler Robson, which I personally don't believe. But you know what that tells me? So there's two versions here, right? One, that if it's not Tyler Robinson, >> then someone really worked hard to look up Tyler's past, his habits, who he is, how he talks, what he wears, and then get a similar person with the same glasses and similar outfits that Tyler likes to wear to to do all this right in front of the cameras. So that sounds like a, you know, an operation that was ongoing, right? And it's really bizarre that from all these stuff that Tyler's, you know, all these videos out in Facebook or whatever, like social media, from all the videos that they could have uh, you know, put out and gone viral, the body cam video is the one that they choose to put out with the similar glasses just to almost like in your face like, "Hey guys, look, it's the same glasses. It's the same type of shirt." Like, okay, can can you make this even dumber? Like, I I just don't understand. So, that's really bizarre. Now, let's talk about the fact that Tyler Robinson was an exceptional student. We know how CIA and NSA, and I know CIA gets all the crap, but guys, NSA is, you know, equally worse, if not worse, domestically, than the CIA. And they do hire military people to send on oneman missions. Uh, now I'm not going to talk about what those missions are, but you probably can get a very good idea. So, NSA is right here. I'm in Utah right now. NSA is like not very far away from me. Okay. So, let's talk about what could have happened in this guy's past. Maybe he was recruited because we know these agencies are looking uh in in the universities. Literally every former officer that I know from CIA was recruited by a professor either a professor of geography history or some kind of like that's happening. So is it possible that he was recruited something happened and he became more profitable as a psy than as an operative. You know what I mean? >> I've got a lot of feelings about this. Um Jesse, do you want to go on this at all? Go for it. Start us off. I'll tell you what. Yeah, go ahead. >> Cuz there was this video that went that came out pretty early on by a woman named Lassay Fair Lounge, I think on Instagram that spread pretty well. And she was talking about this CAI program at USU, which is not UVU, Utah State University, Utah Valley University, two different colleges. Um, but all colleges in Utah are great recruiting grounds because the Mormon faith is a great recruiting pool for the CIA and the other intelligence agencies and we know that very well. Um, you know, they're good kids and they don't do drugs and they follow orders. Um, >> they also know multiple languages from very young age. she started digging into this thing which I eventually went back and double checked all of it and it is true that there's this whole very advanced cutting edge program um at the school that Tyler Robinson attended for one semester uh that is the cutting edge of CIA and intelligence training basically um it's the center for anticipatory intelligence and it's like bringing intel training into the new era is sort of how it's framed and it's founded by a bunch of CIA agents and staffed by a whole bunch of ex CIA agents and it's very open and forthcoming about what its point is. And so Tyler Robinson with these great scores gets a full ride scholarship, goes to school out there at and he's not in that program, but he's at that college where those programs exist and then one month later he drops out on his full ride scholarship and all that. And he later turns up going to like an electrical engineering apprenticeship at a little local community college apparently. Um, but it's I haven't really verified what records are showing that and how long he was there for. And to me, all of that um that is like the fingerprint of an intelligence recruitment of you are an extremely smart person from a generally military like supportive family that you have some experience with that kind of world. You go to school where there's a whole bunch of CIA recruitment happening and one month later you drop off the map or whatever. I don't know. Um, Lance Twigs definitely does not fit that profile. Lance Twigs fits the profile of the psycho kid that you can find and be like, "Oh, this kid is someone that we can access, manipulate, coersse, uh, push over the edge, off the deep end, whatever." Um, so it's a weird pairing of two profiles of people that fit very specific roles in, shall we say, like deep state, like deep black intelligence operations. >> Right. Right. >> Yeah. >> Absolutely. And uh another weird thing is guys I attended the hearings right and the very first hearing that happened in Utah I was sitting there and it was so bizarre. So first and foremost we were only what like maybe 17 to 18 journalist mechs and the room could have hold 75. They told us well it's made like for 75 people so we'll just you know do first come first served. So, we were sitting there and I'm like looking around. This is a very high-profile case. We are talking about Charlie freaking Kirk and only 17 people show up. Me and NBC are sitting right next to each other like looking around and it's a half half like of of the room is empty. And then of course the judge who's new by the way uh says that we're going into recess. I'm like what dude? You have not even been speaking like 15 minutes. What do you What do you mean recess? I've been on hearings before. I've attended hearings. I've never seen anything like that. >> Why do we need need a recess in 15 minutes? It was so weird. It's bizarre. And then they tell us that after recess, you're not allowed in like back in. So I'm like, what? >> We we we are not a threat here. You're not allowing phone calls. You're not allowing even they told us do not bring your phone out of your pocket or we'll kick you out. So I'm like, okay. So my phone is in the pocket. I'm no hazard. I'm not recording anything. The only person allowed to record are you guys. So, what's going on? Why are not we allowed back in after the recess? Like, I've never seen anything like this, guys. >> You would think that like this is a leftist violence, clear and simple. Trans ideology baked into the cake. Clearly, that's who shot Charlie Kirk, the right-wing darling, the friend of the entire administration. So, the administration has the most slam dunk case ever. If that is the true story that's happening here, then they should just blast it everywhere because every single piece of truth that comes out about that story will a boost the administration, boost the FBI, boost Cash Patel, boost the whole thing because they've been screaming about leftist violence for years now. They had been screaming about leftist violence every day since Charlie was shot. And so if it was just this simple leftist violence narrative that did it, I I see no reason for secrecy. I see only reason for transparency. Um which is not to prove that that's not what it was. It's just super weird >> over and over and over. >> Yeah. I look at it too like I I look at it through a through the lens also of like the FBI if you understand the incentive structures of the people involved then it's kind of easy to back into their you know back into their behavior and like from the FBI side I see a group of people who want to solve this thing and get it off their plate where like to me there's so much evidence of of conspiracy of fornowledge and all of these people who have been posting things like for days before. Hey, something's gonna happen at Charlie Kirk on September 10th at you, you know. And they're like, yeah, we're gonna look into all those guys. And you're all, okay, well, what happened? You know, like now you're making me look into all these guys. Like, now you're making me do it. You know, cuz there like nothing comes up. And and you want to know why we started looking into it? is because Cash Patel said, I literally watched him say, uh, we've got our guy and, uh, in terms of like the conspirators, if we find anything, we'll pass it to state, uh, state prosecutors. I'm like, so why would you be using any resources looking into people if it's not going to be your case? Which means they're not, right? Like, they're not looking into those guys. And again, like my my take, I mean, there's no way for me to know what happened, but I just the idea that this kid 4.0 0 student just did this on his own. Just like took it upon himself and then did it in this way that's so idiotic and gives this like this bow wrapped case [clears throat] that he's the one who did it in in writing over here. Leaves a gun in a place that is for sure going to get found where he could have taken it down and then taken it out the way that it it does not add up. Like it's like clearly there's something else going on. Whether that is, you know, some kind of intelligence operation or it's his psychotic schizophrenic roommate framed him. I mean, that's basically I mean, like I'm I'm leaning pretty hard in that direction now after what I saw there. And then what I've been looking at in the last couple is like people need to be putting eyes on Lance Twigs pronto. And I do not understand why they why they uh disqualified him as a as a potential suspect so fast. Like where was like the governor goes up on a day like the same day as the arrest. Well, this young man, uh, he's been so cooperative and kind and, you know, he's, uh, he's he's doing a great job. He had no foreign knowledge. And you're like, why? Because he told you that. Like, what what what are you basing that on? Like, you don't have time to have even investigated him. You have no time to have disqualified him. Why are you going in front of the a national audience and saying there's no way this kid is involved? Makes no sense. >> I looked at his I looked at his uh at his social media last night. This is just like kind of like a a side quest while my much more capable person is looking into the things I can't find. And every single one of his Tik Tok posts in is currently still pro like public profile had zero zero comments prior to September 10th. None. All the posts are old, but not a single comment. None. Not a single person commented on any of his posts until after September 10th. You're like, "Okay, like like what is this?" Anyway, there's >> Yep. And what you're talking about there, Jesse, is like exponentially weirder and more important to ask about once you see this new video that was just published yesterday by Turkey Tom, correct? >> Because he has sources. He has a whole bunch of screenshots and images of like [snorts] journal entries, I guess, by Lance Twigs. Like, we're not talking like he was weird. We're not talking like he liked to wear a tail so he's evil. We're talking like whole pages of like scribbling demonic weird like like like hardly even legible anything. There's no world where the man, the person that is making those images and and like and the things that the roommate describes about him, there's no world where that person is someone you would clear of any, you know, association with a crime because they said they didn't do it. Like that person is so suspect and so sketchy in every direction. And the thing about it that's interesting is that what the picture that's emerging of Lance Twigs, it fits into some version of not intelligence agencies, but just a couple of people coordinating something out of hate. But it also kind of fits into an intelligence narrative as well because if I was like an outer intelligence agency looking for some sort of paths operation to cover up my shooting, my my access point would be the crazy psychopathic trans boyfriend. My my access point would be the guy that's getting so blackout drunk that he has no memory of anything every night who has this whole like psychotic thing going on. That's a very like like reasonable and common access point is to find someone that's unstable and then get in with them or whatever it needs to be. So, it's like it tells us a lot about what is going on. The fact that they cleared Lance so fast and tried to pretend that he's all good. That's super weird. Doesn't really tell us what it means, but it it means something for sure. Think about think about how simple it would be to put this case on Tyler if you're Lance Twigs. Like >> literally, he who pull, you know, shoot go what? However, someone shot Charlie Kirk. He puts the kid's rifle down in a place that's for sure going to get found. Goes on to his Discord that he definitely has access to. Goes into the text message that he definitely has access to. sends some text messages, put does some discord, leaves the gun, done like you're talking easily. >> I would agree with Yan with one thing. So yes, it it does look like this guy is psychopetic or sociopic or schizophrenic, whatever he is, right? But here's where everything stops. Cash Patal is no idiot and neither is the entire FBI. Okay. So, if it was just few people getting together, some demonic people pulling this off, then FBI would have figured it out and they wouldn't have like they just simply wouldn't have made these mistakes. So, what tells me that Jan's second version is correct is that someone's covering up for these guys. The entire operation is being covered up and now we have a gag order. So I agree with you that it is the memo of CIA or NSA or even Navy intelligence when they go and search for petties like that because they make perfect bowl guys like it's incredible. So I do want to talk about few things that no one really likes to touch on and I understand like people like Tucker and Tucker is an exceptional human. And I love Tucker, but people like Tucker, Candice, and others don't like to touch on because I feel like they're it's too close to home for them. So, I'm talking about Erica Kirk. And because she's a nobody for me, I can talk about it. Now, you know, I don't ever criticize anyone's grief. It's not my business. It's not my business what you know character Erica Kirk is and I'm not here to criticize her but it certainly feels really bizarre and odd to me that I think it was what it correct me from like two days after Charlie was dead. We see this video of him. I think he was like imbalmed in something in the coffin >> and she's like going over his body like almost like a you know I I it was just bizarre and he's she's like I love you so much and that's great but why are you recording it and why are you putting out like this stuff on Instagram? I I can only imagine if something happens to a person that I love. Like last thing I'm thinking is updating my Instagram with his dead body and me crying over it. Like I'm not even thinking about my phone. My you know the the I don't even know where my phone is, guys. When something like that happens, people are supposed to cater to me and say, "You left your phone. Have you drank any water today?" or something. And she's like dolled up posting this stuff. What is Is that bizarre or am I completely like out of line? >> Super bizarre. >> Very weird. >> And it's obviously a lot of people are theorizing going down all kinds of roads looking to her Romanian angels charity and stuff like that. >> Um and I'm being very cautious. I think it's wise to be cautious about, you know, what accusations you throw at a grieving widow. >> Um but there's a lot of different versions of what it might kind of mean. But I think we can agree that it's it's not what the average widow would do, right? And so there's everything from like maybe it's just her being extremely dedicated to Charlie's cause. And so basically getting over her grief right away and and producing like proTpa propaganda is one read of it. That's like maybe the kindest read of it that she's like trying to build up his legacy and make him you know kind of build up his martyrdom and you know rah rah which then she comes out at the memorial and she's like getting very political. She's put in place as the CEO of Turning Point. So I you know I could be convinced of that argument that it's just kind of like her trying to build his legacy in ways that look weird to us. Um, but I also am not totally closed off to the theories that like there's a whole other conspiracy going on there. Um, I just want to see some super solid evidence of any of that before I, you know, >> dive into it. And I doubt we ever would if if there's some super highle like fake death or fake this or that conspiracy. Um, >> I highly doubt that we're ever going to see anything about that. I've had such a hard time building an opinion because like I find it unwatchable. I can't get through 20 seconds of any of the stuff that she's put out like the >> you know like her speech you know like when she could like her her press conference I got I got to her talking to herself and I was like oh my god and I turned it off and then the memorial I couldn't watch I can't walk like >> that kind of stuff makes my blood run the opposite direction in my veins. It's like I can't take like like I I hit a level of cringe that is actually unbearable. can't like so I haven't been able to watch it. Um but the the only thing like like and again I can see it both ways. is just I I fall back on like her background is that of a beauty queen and you know the beauty queen's skill set is I can you know like this unwatchable cringe thing and that but honestly that doesn't really speak to any specific conclusion because that's val you know if like >> it kind of all three all conclusions >> it could yeah it could support any of them but yeah I don't know I mean I looked into the Romanian Angels thing too and it's like from every I mean this is the the sick reality Every time you look into any charity that is doing something with orphans overseas, you've got a trafficker. Every [laughter] single time. You know what I mean? So like >> So true. >> I don't know. >> So true. >> There's a piece of this though as you bring up as you bring up Erica Kirk. There's another tangent to quickly touch on here in that Erica is not the only person close to Charlie that's getting scrutinized for good reason. Um and a lot of the scrutiny around the other people close to Charlie is his bodyguards team. um specifically relative to the care uh the medical treatment that they did or more likely did not give to him on the scene. And then it's the guy that took the SD cards out of the cameras and also immediately after the shooting ran back around behind the building to jump up onto this like weird position that I can talk about where he makes a phone call or rather he starts filming. >> Yeah, he's he's up in the elevated position filming. Yeah. >> Yeah. First reaction. So there's two things there um really briefly. First, this guy, he the shooting happens and he's like in Charlie's team. He's one of the media guys or something like that with TV USA. So, initially people got on to this guy and got suspicious of him because there's video of him taking the SD cards out of the cameras, the the HD 4K cameras that were pointing at Charlie from every direction. He like suspiciously takes them down, removes the SD cards, and allegedly gives them to law enforcement. Candace Owens got on him pretty early, but then we people realized that in some of the other cell phone footage, we can see that the first thing he did when Charlie got shot is he ran over and looked and then immediately ran away behind the scenes, ran over to this little retaining wall that I personally went there and looked at cuz I was very curious about this. And it's like 3 and 1/2 ft tall, maybe 3 ft tall. It's like up to my waist at least. It'd be hard to like vault up onto. And then he climbs up this steep gravel embankment a couple of feet that would be slipping down. He for some reason achieves an elevated position where he's got a view of the exit and then starts filming. He pulls his phone out, >> right? >> Like all within 5 to 10 15 seconds of the shooting so that by the time they carry Charlie Kirk's body out, he's like standing there filming it for some reason, which is so bizarre and does not make any sense. Um, >> and in tandem to that, people started to notice that the security team that actually comes around Charlie Kirk and ostensibly treats his wounds, they do everything wrong possible from a medical standpoint. And I always point to Valhalla VFT and a guest that he had on, Sticky Green Beret. This is a decorated uh com like experienced combat Green Beret and a combat medic. These guys have been in combat. They've, you know, treated tons and tons of gunshot wounds. You could not get a better expert witness testimony. Um, but I know this from my basic level of of medical training, too, is that we have video of like three to four security guards all grouping around Charlie Kirk, and we see everyone's hands except for one of the hands of one of the guys, and none of these hands have blood on them. And we know that we have an arterial bleed. And we know the very first thing that should happen with an arterial bleed is both hands into there to try to put pressure on that to clamp the artery. You should have one guy pulling out pressure bandages and treatment for this wound and and putting or taking off your shirt, getting cloth, whatever, and packing the wound full of material immediately. And you would have blood spurting all over the place while that's happening. And based on what we saw, we did not see the type of treatment that would stop an arterial bleed. And if you don't stop an arterial bleed, you certainly don't move the patient. There is no reason to move the patient if their artery is bleeding because they're going to be dead in one minute anyways. You don't drive them to a hospital that's 7 minutes away if they're still bleeding out of their artery. And we saw no bandages being taken out, no compression, none of that. No blood on hands until like after they had already carried them away. And so it's like either the security team is extremely medically unexperienced and made some really bad calls except they're still protecting Erica Kirk to this day. Um or there's something completely different going on that is super suspic like very conspiratorial at that point. >> Did you see a lot of people around >> like security guard face >> is so crazy like he's sitting there and he he's he's like he has like a half smile on. He has the he looks like he has the urgency of someone who just got nachos put in front of them at a movie, you know? Like like there's just like there's not like there's no urgency at all. He's just almost like half smiling. He's like, "Hey man, this is just another day where, you know, our principal gets murdered in front of us." Like, he's so bizarre. >> He was also super nonchalant when the shot was first fired. Um, the footage where you see the necklace kind of fly over like from the side of Charlie Kirk in that that's the footage where they show him doing the weird sleeve thing that people thought it was like a palm gun. Um, super super clear high definition footage of that camera just got put online yesterday, today. And I was just re-watching it and he is so nonchalant when the shot is fired. It's like you've got people going next to him and and it it takes him like 10 to 20 frames before he even starts to move towards Charlie Kirk. No like crazy reaction. No, it it's just weird. And so these things don't prove anything except that we need an explanation and maybe that explanation will suffice, but >> it certainly proves negligence. You know, even if it was Tyler Robinson, my bodyguard should have taken care of >> the environment. Like the security detail is there for So either way, that was negligent. So I don't understand why Erica keeps them around. That's one. And you know, this like crazy defense like right after this happened, like everyone from Turning Point was like, "Well, don't blame the security detail. They were exceptionally good." Like first of all that's weird that you're coming out and doing that like right away guys like two days in and we're talking about how heroic their actions are. What the [ __ ] are you talking about? They they their protectee got killed. What are you talking about? Like heroic? >> They have one job, >> right? They had one job. Exactly. And they failed. So let's not even even talk about the heroic actions here. I really want to say what's the well I guess the most important thing who killed Charlie Kirk right so I know I know and um well versions are obviously the CIA and intelligent agencies had to be involved because even if it's foreign government trying to do something here without the cover up by these agencies no foreign government will be successful it's just we don't operate that way So either it was some type of emerged operation by some, you know, uncontrolled elements from the CIA, NSA, and certain foreign governments, but I know that, you know, there's there's only one way to look at it. When Charlie was turning on certain people, right? And there's no secret here that we're talking about Israel. I feel like they were to lose way more with him being alive talking than with him being dead. Like Charlie was way worse for them, >> you know, if he was dead because at least they could control the narrative. And guess what? They did try to thanks to Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson. They were miserably unsuccessful. But they did try, didn't they? So, so what are your opinions? >> And that's a whole other podcast to have, too, because it's this other overlapping narrative that there's no smoking gun direct link between what Charlie was talking about with Israel behind the scenes and the donors behind the scenes and the shooting, but like you would be harder pressed to find a more striking moment of danger for Charlie Kirk's career and life in his relationship with Israel and the Israeli donors than that exact moment. Um, and more and more evidence has just been coming out to corroborate that over and over and over since then. So, um, you know, it's I think we kind of have three theories and one is like intelligence agencies, US and Israel probably combined in some form. Yep. >> Uh, Tyler Robinson like lone gunman allegedly or somewhere in the middle of like a Tyler Robinson with some accompllices or maybe like you know something smaller than intelligence agencies but not Tyler on his own. Um it's kind of the three theories right now, right? >> Absolutely. Yes. And hopefully we'll get to the bottom of this. Uh many things are coming out. I wish I had more time to tell you guys what my operation looks like behind the scenes, but we will have to do it some other time because I do have a guest coming in, but thank thanks thank you both for coming in and absolutely giving us some extremely valuable insight. Um it was very um well, first of all, it was very informative and I had a lot of fun. Yeah, thanks for having me on. You can find me um at uh cancelroll.com or the best place to follow along for all of my work right now is at you on YouTube at Ian Carol Show. >> Yeah, thank you for having me on. Uh you can find me at jesseonfire.com or uh Jesse onfire YouTube or Instagram and X is real Jesse on fire is my handle and that's where I post. >> Thank you guys. Thank you and we'll talk [music]