Senate Hearing Examines Political Violence Crisis and Threat to Constitutional Order in America

Okay, we'll call this hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committee Subcommittee on the Constitution Constitution to order. Hearing uh for today is on politically violent attacks and the threat to our constitutional order. I'll give my opening statement, then we'll go to the the ranking member and u and then after we might do a second round of opening remarks, introduce the witnesses, swear you guys in, and then get rolling with questions. For the past 15 months, political violence has been a constant fact of American life. We've seen arson and bombings, armed ambushes and assaults, sniper attacks and mass shootings, riots, and violent mobs on our city streets. We've seen assassinations. We've seen murder. We've seen death. None of this is random. [clears throat] It's organized, coordinated political terror. The people behind this violence are not common street criminals. They're not driven by money or drugs or gangland turf disputes. They're determined militant extremists who wield violence for political ends. They know that their vision would never win at the ballot box. So, they've chosen terrorism instead. They know their ideas could not win in the marketplace of ideas, so they shoot up the marketplace. Last year, President Trump survived not one but two assassination attempts. In Butler, Pennsylvania, he escaped a sniper bullet by a centimeter in a split second. Only weeks later in West Palm Beach, another wouldbe assassin camped out for 12 hours in the brush outside of Trump International Golf Club, armed with a loaded rifle, burner phones, a GoPro, hoping to finish the job. Less than two months later, a healthc care CEO was gunned down in cold blood on a New York street by a left-wing extremist who called his victim a parasite who had it coming. Within days, left-wing activists had made the murder a folk hero. In California, they pushed a ballot measure named in his honor. A poll taken 10 days after the murder found that nearly half of very liberal Americans had a favorable view of the killer, whereas just 8% of very conservative Americans felt the same. Then came an all-out war on immigration and customs enforcement. Across the country, federal officers were hunted like prey. They were attacked, surrounded, ambushed, and shot at. Their facilities were firebombed. There were arrests for arson, for assault, for violent threats and doxing, but the violence continued to escalate. On July 4th, 11 members of an Antifa terror cell carried out a coordinated ambush on an ICE facility in Texas. They arrived in two vehicles loaded with semi-automatic rifles, handguns, Molotov cocktails, body armor, and encrypted radios. Their gear was painted with a circle A for Antifa. They detonated fireworks to lure officers out into the open and then opened fire and kept shooting until their guns jammed. One cop was struck in the neck and critically wounded while racing to respond. Just three weeks later, a transgender shooter entered a Catholic elementary school in Minneapolis and opened fire on hundreds of children while they prayed. Dozens were wounded. Two little children, a 10-year-old girl and an 8-year-old boy were killed. The shooter marked his guns with slogans like, "Where is your God now?" and posted videos using an image of Christ for target practice. Two weeks after that, Charlie Kirk was murdered while speaking to students in Utah. The killer told friends and family he did it because Charlie was full of hate. Social media exploded with gloating celebration. Thousands upon thousands of people, journalists, professors, and government employees, could not contain their glee that a father of two young children had been gunned down in broad daylight. When Americans gathered to mourn him, they were attacked there, too. In El Paso, an arsonist set fire to a church holding a vigil in his memory. A week later, a man opened fire into an ABC news station in Sacramento just days after the network suspended Jimmy Kimmel's show. Police found anti-Trump writings in his car and a handwritten note that read Patel Bonino and Pam Bondi. They're next. And just last week, an [clears throat] anarchist radical was arrested for placing a $45,000 bond bounty on Pam Bondi. Posting an image of the attorney general with a sniper dot on her head. The caption read, "Wanted, dead or alive, preferably dead." A week after the ABC shooting, a sniper opened fire on an ice facility in Dallas, killing multiple people. Investigators recovered shell casings etched with the words anti-ICE. And this month, a man who flew across the country to murder, Justice Brett Kavanaaugh, received a sentence of just eight years. He brought a gun, ammunition, a knife, duct tape, and zip ties to kill a sitting Supreme Court justice in his own home while his wife and kids were present because he didn't like the way he might rule on gun control or abortion. This is the nature of political violence in America today. It's driven by a system far larger than the people who commit the act itself. We've seen this system in action. We've forgotten. We have not forgotten what happened in 2020. 5 years ago, violent mobs burned and looted their way through our cities. The press called the riots mostly peaceful, though. Ivy League academics celebrated them as righteous acts of resistance. The wealthy corporations in the world donated billions to keep them going. Vice presidential candidates bailed riers out of jail. Prosecutors declined charges. Judges released arsonists and anarchists just hours after their arrests. The same public health experts who banned funerals and shut down churches declared mass protests justified because racism is a public health crisis. Politicians reserve their outrage not for criminals torching police precincts, but for the officers trying to defend them. The largest cities in the nation slashed their police budgets by hundreds of millions of dollars, unleashing a deadly wave of violent crime on a scale not seen in decades. The largest single-year increase in murders in more than a century. The activists on the ground claimed that claimed to be revolutionaries fighting the powers that be. But the truth is they were backed by the full force of the ruling regime. The mobs that torch cities, the radicals who ambush ICE agents, the activists who terrorize judges at their homes, all of them are foot soldiers in the same regime. A regime whose foundational ideology is that we're born either as victims or oppressors and is the duty of re revolutionaries to impose their vision of equity upon us all. This sustained campaign of violence is explicitly and specifically political. It is motivated by a distinct and fanatical ideology rapidly anti-American, anti-western, and anti-ivilization itself. It is a worldview that indictes the United States as an illegitimate nation born in evil. By now, most Americans have heard this language. It has dominated our public life for years. These are not fringe ideas any longer. They have not just been tolerated but actively embraced, repeated and amplified through the largest megaphones in our country. To my friends on the other side of the dis who may take offense with these categorizations, how often have we heard Democrats praise these radicals for their idealism? How many elected officials have called riots the language of the unheard? The violence stalking our streets today is a feature, not a bug. There is an evil but consistent logic to it. It's the natural and logical result of the ideology itself. If the violent elements ideals were so praiseworthy, then the system which obstructs their fulfillment is to blame. And why work within a blameworthy system for praiseworthy ends? To these people in this movement, the only acceptable goal is the destruction of the system and its leaders. The central idea of every revolutionary project is that utopia must be achieved through any means necessary. If you truly believe that Charlie Kirk is an existential threat to your safety and you've bought into the nonsense that words are violence, then silencing him by any means could seem necessary. If you believe that mass migration is an inalienable right, then opening the floodgates to uncontrolled immigration, tearing down the border and attacking those who defend it might look like justice to you. If you believe that America was conceived in murder and built on stolen land, then you feel no moral obligation to respect and obey its laws. If you truly believe the police are the armed enforcers of racist oppression who indiscriminately murder innocent victims in the streets, then you might see violence against an officer as an act of brave resistance. When Charlie Kirk was murdered, one of his killer's bullets was engraved with the message, "Hey, fascist, catch." But who taught him that Charlie Kirk was a fascist? Who conceived him? Who convinced him, I should say, that Charlie's hate made his murder a righteous act? Who told him over and over again that people who believe what Charlie Kirk believe are threats to our democracy? He didn't invent that worldview. He learned it, as did each and every one of the arsonists, assassins, and militants who came before him. Perhaps the people in power who said these things didn't really believe them. But clearly some of the people who listened to them did. And now they are taking those ideas to their final logical conclusion. Enough. We are faced with only two paths. Either we confront this political violence and end it or it will end us. And I can think of no better person to introduce this topic than the late Charlie Kirk itself himself. I'm going to show a quick video before we go to the ranking member of him speaking on this precise subject. And I hope everyone would listen closely and heed his warning. >> Now on Thursday, more violence from the radical left. This time directed at Turning Point USA and their group on the campus of UC Davis. Here with more, Turning Point USA founder CEO Charlie Kirk. It's interesting. We we were texting what about a week ago and I kept saying, you know, it takes a lot of courage for you and your group and these young kids to be setting up in these hostile environments on college campuses. And you know, lo and behold, it's not the first time it's happened, but we'll show the video as you're speaking. Tell us everything that went on. >> Yeah, it's shocking stuff and it's a pattern now. We're seeing this happening on more and more campuses. So, at the University of California, Davis, our brave Turning Point USA chapter was set to host Brandon Tatum as a prove me wrong event. Goes up, sets a table. Anyone can go and have free speech and dialogue if they disagree. Antifa showed up, full masked, black outfits. They came in, took our gear, destroyed our tables, basically made the students had to flee, and the police did nothing to intervene. Nothing whatsoever. Our courageous students had such resolve and fortitude that after this incident happened, they reathered and tried to do the event still about an hour later, but it wasn't the same. Of course, this is after one of our Turning Point USA students at University of Texas Dallas had a bike lock thrown at her and actually had to be hospitalized for this treatment. Sean, we are seeing a disturbing pattern from the radical left and we have data to now support it. According to the National Contagion Research Institute, 48% of leftcenter respondents say it's justified to murder Elon Musk. 53% say that it would be justified to murder President Donald Trump. There are ballot measures in California that are being measured by far-left activists that are being named, I should say, after Luigi Majioni. We have to take a step back here and ask our question, what's really going on here? There's a deeper thing than just political disagreement. If you are on the front lines like our Turning Point USA students, you are potentially putting your safety, your well-being, and god forbid, your life in jeopardy for simply being a conservative on a college campus. >> Ranking member Welsh. >> Uh thank you very much, uh Mr. Chairman, and I want to thank the witnesses for being here today. Uh I just want to make it clear, I am absolutely horrified, uh by political violence in this country. Uh, and Senator Schmidt did today, just now, but at a hearing last week, you or last month, you said, quote, "Political violence is always wrong. Period. Full stop. It doesn't matter which side in the name of any ideology or cause, it's wrong." And Senator Schmidt, I agree with you. And all of us must condemn every act of violence that tears at the fabric of our society and is absolutely totally corrosive to our democracy. And I think us as elected officials on both sides of the aisle, we have a significant duty to engage and disagree but with respect unmotivated by hate. Our rhetoric matters and we can reflect our commitment to representing our constituents aggressively, assertively, but without the kind of hatred that faments bad, bad bad behavior. And political violence touches all Americans regardless of their political affiliation. You know, I got involved in politics uh when I was involved in the civil rights movements. And two of the people that I most admired uh in politics, Martin Luther King and Bobby Kennedy were both assassinated. And I unequivocally condemned Mr. Kirk's assassination. Unequivocally. I know Mr. Nulls here very very close to him. I know Senator Schmidt was very, very close to him. And I know millions of Americans were inspired by him. I condemn that. Let me be clear. I condemn that killing. I was also just want to say this. The stakes are really too high for the American people in the health of our democracy to use this hearing as an opportunity to demonize one side or the other. [snorts] If all political vi if all violence all political violence is wrong, is evil, is corrosive, the debate about where there's more on one side or the other, I don't see how that helps us get anywhere. Politicizing violence with inflammatory uh rhetoric has real consequences. So, all of us have to turn that temperature down. Those of us who are in public office, those of us who are in public life, you know, one of the things that happens when we have a reaction that's political and demonized as being one side or the other, is there can be governmental action that then starts suppressing the rights of all of our citizens, whether on the right or on the left. And we've got that history in our country. The Alien and Sedition Acts made it illegal to criticize the government under the guise of national security. My predecessor, Matthew Lion, Vermont congressman in 1797, went to jail because he criticized uh President Adams. That was wrong. He ran for reelection and Vermonters responded by reelecting him from jail, standing up for his free free speech rights. In the 20s, we saw the Palmer raids and what that what happened there uh with illegal searches and seizures without arrest and without warrants and other constitutional uh attacks on the rights of the organized labor and of everyday citizens under the name of going after quote the far left. And of course in the 50s, McCarthyism fueled a campaign of fear and prosecution against left-wing groups. And I put that in quotes until the Supreme Court stepped in to ensure civil rights and civil liberties were guaranteed. You know, I was listening to Mr. Kirk and I do believe what he did going on campuses to encourage dialogue was a good thing to do. That's what we should have and there should be a civil reaction to that. But I'm worried that if we're just going to use the violence that we all abhore to get into an argument about whether it's more left or more right, we kind of lose the point that it's all to be condemned. So, I'm willing to work with any and all of us uh to condemn political violence uh and and renew our commitment to civility. And uh Mr. chairman, he's not here, but I sent over to his office a resolution about civility. Uh that is just basic agreement to disagree but not to use invective or hate at all in our discourse. So my view, we can't stop the discussion by having it focus on whether it's left or rightwing. Not to leave that unexamined, but it has to be wholly and completely condemned. and I look forward to hearing from our witnesses about your suggestions and how we as a country can do better. Is is are you gonna go? And I yield to Senator Lee. Thank you. [clears throat] Thank you. Uh I want to thank each of you for being here. I look forward to hearing your testimony. I'm also very grateful to Senator Schmidt, Ranking Member Welsh, and those who put together this hearing, working with them. Violence for the purpose of achieving political ends in the United States of America is itself unamerican. It's something that is anathema to who we are as a people and it must be universally condemned uh and should be regarded as an unthinkable relic of societies that manifestly lack the rule of law because it is. Uh uh our republic has regrettably become infected by a type of ideological cancer. One that tends to excuse even the most heinous acts so long as they can be said to achieve um or or or somehow advance uh politically favored causes. Now, because of the way our news media tends to lean and a number of factors, those are often leftist causes that are embracing this. Uh, if they weren't, if it happened the other way, the the media would serve as a check on that. Uh, the media doesn't always serve as a check on that when it comes from the left because very often a number of voices within the media uh tend to agree with those odds. And I think that's part of how we get to the point where such a high percentage of those who identify themselves as part of the left are willing to say that murder of President Trump is morally justifiable. U and other polls have come out since Charlie Kirk's assassination that show that trend getting worse, not letter, not better, just in the last few weeks. For examples of this alarming trend, one need look no further than the mostly peaceful burning of various American cities throughout the so-called summer of love in 2020 or the coddling of pro- Hamas and anti-semitic mobs uh by university administrators just in the last year or two and even the disgusting attempts to rationalize, excuse, and in many cases even praise the cold-blooded assassination of Charlie Kirk through grotesque distortions. of his past public statements and otherwise. This must end today. This hearing gives us a real chance to reflect upon and confront this very disturbing and building trend within our society. It's not enough to state that political violence is wrong. We must expose it, call it out where it exists, and uh root out the forces that tend to enable it. Now to those who would cite the First Amendment somehow in defense of actions that cannot be defended on their own merits, let us be very clear. Violence is not protected speech. Neither is incitement uh to violence or funding of violence or facilitation of violence any more so than a conspiracy to commit violent acts would be protected by the first amendment. These things are not. They are analytically distinct, legally, constitutionally distinct from speech. They're not covered by the First Amendment. Indeed, the preservation of free speech itself depends on our ability to shield peaceful discourse from those who would silence dissent through any form of violence. Look, modern American uh society uh is the greatest civilization the world has ever known. Now, uh, many on the other side of the aisle have decided that, um, they ought to repeatedly engage in inflammatory u, sometimes irresponsible rhetoric that creates permission. Sort of establishes a permission structure, you might say, for violence directed at our civil institutions. As the Trump administration works tirelessly to safeguard Americans from this wave of criminal illegal aliens that have come through over the last four and a half years, many Democrat leaders have fought back tooth and nail, describing federal law enforcement as quote a a quote modern-day Gestapo, as slave patrols, as thugs, and as a collective terror force. Despite multiple assassination attempts against Trump, it was and remains today fashionable in leftist circles to compare President Trump to Hitler and smear his reporters, his supporters as fascists. What has been the result of this? Well, across the country, ICE agents have been under attack personally, not just as a group. At an ICE facility in Texas, officers were attacked with one even being shot in the neck. Investigators later found evidence of left-wing anarchist and anti-government ideology, anti-ICE slogans, Antifa imagery, and online discussions specifically targeting federal agencies. And yet again, much of the left either ignored the story altogether or blamed the government for provoking the attack. And leftists in the media, meanwhile, did at best nothing to stop it. and in other cases tended to ferment it. This violence toward the executive branch is not itself isolated. In 2022, a California man boarded a plane to Maryland with a pistol, with ammunition, and with a fairly distinct plan. His goal to assassinate Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaaugh because he disagreed with the leaked ruling in the DOS case that would go on to overturn Row versus Wade. He disagreed with that ruling. Therefore, he decided he had to kill this justice. He was consumed by far-left ideology and the belief that violence is justified somehow when our system does not result in the outcomes desired by the left. He later told investigators that he wanted to quote unquote give his life by killing Brett Kavanaaugh himself. That is not activism. That is radicalism. That is extremism. It is driven by the same ideology that calls violent protest resistance and dressing dressing it up in as many euphemisms as people can find. Shockingly, some leftists suggest almost as a matter of routine that daring to question their misguided beliefs is akin to perpetuating violence against certain favored groups or disfavored groups. I I hope we can find bipartisan consensus in condemning all political violence without reservation and without regard to the ideology of the person at whom the violence might be directed. to overcome the very worst instincts of human nature's um uh somewhat natural tendency toward violence. Although it's a tendency that can and must be suppressed in any free civilization, we must first remember that we are one nation and one people under God, united by bonds far stronger than any passing political moment or cause. Political violence, regardless of the alleged justification, regardless of the political beliefs of those embracing it or opposing it, will never and must never be tolerated by this body um or by the United States of America. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. >> Thank you, Senator Lee. Uh would the witnesses please rise? Um I will now administer the oath. Would you raise your right hand, please, and answer this question. Do you swear that the testimony you are about to give this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and m nothing but the truth? So help you God. >> I do. >> Thank you. Thank you very much. And I want to introduce our first witness. Uh it's Mr. Wolf. Thank you uh for being here, Mr. Wolf. And understand that you have a very distinguished career. You serve as America First Policy Institute's executive vice president, chief strategy officer, and chair of AFPI's Homeland Security Immigration. And uh I also understand prior to that you are acting secretary of homeland um acting secretary of the US Department of Homeland Security. And during uh your time at DHS, you've successfully navigated incredible number of global and domestic challenges to the nation's security, including COVID 19, civil unrest, numerous border and immigration crises, and historic natural disasters and threats to global aviation uh security and understand too that you serve now as president and founder of Wolf Global Advisors. Welcome. You may proceed. Thank you, Chairman Schmidt, Ranking Member Welch, and members of the subcommittee for the opportunity to testify today. Political speech and violence should never go hand in hand. I'm here today because I've seen this play this play out firsthand over the last several years and certainly during my time in government service. Let me be clear. I support those who lawfully exercise their constitutional rights. But when speech turns to violence, we must hold those committing violence accountable. The increase in politically motivated violence over the last several years has been driven largely by radical left-wing extremist groups and individuals that believe violence is a legitimate means to achieve political goals. A recent analysis by the Center for Strategic and International Studies shows that quote left-wing violence has risen in the last 10 years and left-wing incidents in 2025 are on track to reach 30-year highs. A recent Rutgers University poll found that 55% over half of the respondents of left of center said it would be somewhat justified to murder President Trump and 48% said the same about Elon Musk. According to another recent poll, one in four people on the far left believe that violence can be justified. That is one in four. The data paints a disturbing picture that some on the left, espec especially younger adults, are increasingly supportive of violence as a form of protest. In 2020, as acting secretary of homeland security, I witnessed 100 consecutive nights of violence in Portland, Oregon. Every night, hundreds of violent anarchists surrounded the Hatfield Federal Courthouse. They hurled commercial-grade fireworks, sledgehammers, concrets, and e even IEDs at our federal officers. They set fire. They vandalized property and assaulted law enforcement. Their goal was not peaceful protest. It was destruction, coercion, and intimidation. At the time, I pleaded with local officials, including the governor and the mayor there in Portland, to help protect our officers. And time and time again, they refused to act. They chose politics over public safety. The result was more than 280 injuries to law enforcement officers and millions of dollars of damage to federal property and to local businesses. Back then, we saw public figures attacking federal law enforcement officers, calling them stormtroopers, Gestapo, and thugs, comparing American law enforcement to Nazi Germany was irresponsible, reckless, and dangerous then, as it remains so today. Unfortunately, this disgusting rhetoric and behavior has only intensified. Once again, we're seeing violent attacks against law enforcement officers. And again, public figures are describing them as Nazis. The difference between 2020 and now, however, is that the Trump administration knows what to expect and is fighting aggressively to hold these violent offenders accountable. The administration has rightfully designated Antifa as domestic terrorist, has began a whole of government investigation into the financing and resourcing of this group, and has charged Antifa members with providing material support for terrorism. And despite what the mainstream media insists, groups like Antifa are not disorganized. They are increasingly organized, funded, andworked. They plan online. They operate anonymously and execute in ways that make detection difficult. Make no mistake, their lack of structure is not a feature. Not is a feature. Sorry, not a bug. And it is designed to evade accountability and prosecution. Critics argue because they have no formal leadership, they shouldn't be treated as domestic terrorists. I believe this completely misses the point. This decentralized model mirrors what we have seen from jihadist networks, cyber criminals, and other criminal groups. Their lack of a hierarchy makes them more dangerous. This past summer, the American people witnessed multiple anti-fascist inspired attacks and threats on law enforcement, journalist, and civil and civilians. This includes threats against ICE officers, other government officials, and even attorney Attorney General Bondi just yesterday. Tragically, this also includes the sickening assassination of Charlie Kirk. I want to state this as plainly as I can. Enforcing immigration law, laws passed by Congress almost 60 years ago is in no way, shape, or form fascism. Every sovereign nation has a right to choose who is allowed to legally enter legally enter the country. Throwing around worlds like fascists and Nazi not only cheapens history, but it fuels increasing hostility towards law enforcement, journalist, and ordinary citizens. The rise in political envir violence presents a grave threat to our constitutional order and rule of law. The cover federal government has a duty and a responsibility to respond. We must continue to give law enforcement the tools and the resources they need. Allow ICE to operate safely in courouses and jails across the country. Increase penalties for those that dock federal officers. And expand joint task forces to dismantle. We owe it to the families who have lost loved ones, including Erica Kirk and others who continue to grieve to ensure that their calls for accountability are answered and that our nation restores the respect for law and order. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify. >> Thank you, Mr. Wolf. By the way, [clears throat] u our chairman is had to go vote and I'm going to have to go do that after I introduce Mr. Braniff. U Mr. Braniff is the director of polarization and extremism research and innovation lab at American University where he's working on research and programming to prevent uh violent extremism, targeted violence, and the drivers of polarization in American society. Um I also want to note that he's a graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point and served as a company commander in the US Army. Uh Mr. Branov, [cough and clears throat] Chairman Schmidt, Ranking Member Welsh, distinguished senators, thank you for your leadership on this critical issue, the [clears throat] opportunity to testify today. 26 years ago, I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution. I've spent my career honoring that oath as an Army officer, terrorism researcher, and leading prevention programs at the Department of Homeland Security. It's a lifelong commitment to protect kids and schools, families and faith communities, public spaces and workplaces, and the democratic institutions and freedoms our founders gave us. This isn't about politics or party. For me, it never has been. I'm here representing a community of like-minded practitioners, law enforcement, mental health, educators, veterans, who work every day to prevent violence before it destroys families and communities. We're united by a simple belief. Targeted violence is preventable and American communities deserve better than waiting for the next attack. We should all condemn targeted violence. It's tragic, unethical, and illegal. I want to start by acknowledging the threats, the loss, and the fear that too many Americans and too many elected officials have experienced. But we should also not mistake the blame game for advancing solutions. Solutions must be based on data and evidence. Solutions must focus on preventing political violence in the first place instead of reacting after the damage has been done. And solutions must reinforce our constitutionally protected freedoms, not erode them. To inform policymaking, Congress legislated that the executive branch provide data on terrorism and targeted violence. DHS contracted with START at the University of Maryland to produce the T2V data set. Although the administration abruptly canceled funding in March, START data demonstrate clearly that violent events do not fit neatly into any one ideological category and that there has been an alarming increase in attacks and credible plots in the United States, including over a 2,000% increase in mass casualty plots since the early 1990s. We average more than two and a half attacks in credible plots per day in the US and over 50% of them succeed. They occurred in over 1,200 US towns and cities. This year, compared to last year, terrorism events are up 67% and fatalities are up nearly 150%. Americans are dying from ISIS inspired, white supremacist, anti-semitic, anti-government, antivax, anti-law enforcement, and nihilistic attacks. So these data highlight three challenges that we need to solve for. The volume problem. With 2.6 events per day, we are at risk of accepting targeted violence as inevitable. It is not. It is preventable. The structural gap problem. These plots succeed 55% of the time. The structural gap is due to appropriate limitations placed on criminal justice investigations to protect privacy, civil liberties, freedom of speech, and freedom of association. So, we can't fill the structural gap with criminal justice only solutions and maintain the freedoms enshrined in our constitution. And third, the reality is that targeted violence manifests in many different forms of terrorism, hate crime, and school shootings. Any approach that only addresses one manifestation will be both operationally ineffective and fiscally inefficient. At DHS, I led prevention programs that partnered federal resources with local teams. Sheriffs who knew their counties, schools who knew their students, mental health professionals who knew their patients, pastors who knew their congregations, local Americans protecting local communities. This allowed us to engage in early interventions that addressed all of the challenges I mentioned. Volume. We supported nearly 1,200 interventions for people on the pathway to violence. zero committed violence while in the program. We filled the structural gap and bridged to public safety. In 94% of the cases the individuals received support from mental health professionals, social workers or other helping professionals, 6% were referred to law enforcement. Most of the individuals, 70% were not yet self-medicating on any one specific ideology when they came to us, just angry, isolated, and struggling. And yet, without indexing our programs on any one ideology, the intervention succeeded across all ideologies, making this approach both effective and cost-effective. Nearly 1,200 people at risk of hurting themselves and others. But before families had to bury loved ones, we invested in prevention instead. Political violence threatens our constitutional order. But not just the violence, also how we respond to it. Whether we choose to do what works, quietly investing in scaling up prevention efforts, or we feed political polarization that makes Americans less safe and erodess our constitution. Americans deserve and the constitution demands the former. Thank you. >> Thank you. Next up is Michael Nolles. Michael Nolles is the celebrated host of the Michael Nolles show on the Daily Wire as well as the book club on Prageru. He has published two number one national best-selling books, including Speechless, a history and analysis of the American free speech tradition. Michael has received numerous awards, including the Conservative Mind Award for the American Conservative magazine and an honorary doctorate of humane letters from a Maria University. Michael is a graduate of Yale and has lectured at universities and research institutions around the world. Floor is yours. >> Thank you, Chairman Schmidt, Ranking Member Welsh, and all the members of this committee. The ranking member suggested that we condemn political violence, which surely we must all do. Uh but then he suggested that we not try to pinpoint exactly which side the violence comes from. This seems to me confusing and misbegotten as one cannot solve a problem if one does not know where the problem lies. In light of the murder of my friend Charlie Kirk by a leftist assassin, I am gratified to see that at least some members of our federal legislature are now confronting the consistent and escalating pattern of left-wing terrorism in the country. Lest I be accused of partisan invective, on September 23rd, no less an emblem of American liberalism than The Atlantic magazine published an article citing a recent study from the Center for Strategic and International Studies, admitting that the left is more violent today than the right. Lesson honest liberals, including members of Congress, continue to deny this fact. Democrat Congressman Seth Molton, for example, reacted to Charlie's assassination by blaming the right. Congressman Molton claimed that threearters of political violence in the United States comes from the right, while only 4% comes from the left. That claim struck me, as it probably does many of you, as suspect. So, I I looked into just a few recent examples that came to mind of prominent left-on violence. the Covenant School Massacre in Nashville in which a transidentifying shooter murdered Christian school children after outlining her ideological motivations. According to authorities, there was no ideological motive there. Go figure. The Black Lives Matter riots overtly leftist demonstrations that left dozens of people dead and over a billion dollars worth of property damage. Likewise, those failed to show up on registers of left-wing political violence. Even an attack by Antifa that targeted me personally as well as conservative college students for our political views appeared in official records and data sets as nothing more than obstructing law enforcement. It turns out the left commits relatively little political violence when you don't count the political violence that the left commits. I am here today to speak about that single illustrative incident. On April 18th, 2023, I was invited to participate in a debate at the University of Pittsburgh on the topic of transgenderism. Before the debate, several hundred left-wing protesters gathered outside the student center, many dressed uniformly in black with face coverings. They lit the street on fire while burning me in effigy with a little Hitler mustache painted on my face. All because I hold the view, as most Americans do, that men cannot become women. Buildings in the area were placed on a soft lockdown. As the Pittsburgh Bureau of Fire put out my burning effigy, an Antifa operative named Brian Depipa, hiding behind his wife, Crystal, rolled two smoke bombs under police barricades. Attendees scattered while demonstrators chanted, "Fascists go home." Depipa then threw a lit firework into a group of police officers protecting the building. The explosion injured several officers, including severe and lifealtering injuries to a female officer. The debate was forced to end early after campus police determined that the protests outside were becoming even more destructive, the campus issued a safety emergency notification. Despite popular efforts to deny the existence of organized left-wing terrorism, Brian and Crystal Depipa were not merely two citizens protesting a speaker with whom they disagreed. Things just got a little out of hand. No, they are members of an extremist cell. A cell that meets at an anarchist bookshop, the sort of venue that operates as training grounds for left-wing terror attacks. Brian Depipa repeatedly set off TSA screeners for explosive material on his body. The Torch Antifa Network has claimed the Depipas as members and raised money for them through a taxexempt nonprofit organization. Imagine. Thanks to a courageous FBI agent who happened to be on the scene, the Department of Justice was impelled to bring charges. Unfortunately, our justice system gave them only a slap on the wrist. I think we should all be able to agree that throwing an explosive at a group of people is no mere minor indiscretion. That is a very serious crime. That's attempted murder. The kind of crime that merits life in prison. Instead, our justice system sentenced Brian Depipa to minimal jail time for obstructing law enforcement. His wife got off with probation. The federal government must act now to stop the consistent and accelerating trend of leftist terrorism. For a legislator to deny the threat and neglect the remedy might once have been chocked up to ignorance, today it is nothing less than complicity. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Chairman. I'd like to introduce the next witness. Daniel Hajes was born in Winston Salem, North Carolina. Studied at George Mason University, currently studying at the University of Virginia, joined the Virginia National Guard in 2012 and was honorably discharged after a six-year contract. He joined the Metropolitan Police Department in 2014 and has served the city of Washington DC as a police officer since earning awards since earning awards, citations, and commendations. On January the 6th, 2021, Officer Hodes responded with his colleagues to the US Capitol to help defend against the mob who was attempting to stop the transfer of power. Officer Hodes was injured during the attack, but returned to full duty weeks later. In 2022, he testified before the House Select Committee to investigate the January 6th attack and has since been honored with the Presidential Citizens Medal by President Joe Biden for his heroic service to the nation during the assault on the capital. Thank you, Mr. Hodes. >> Thank you. I'm speaking in my personal capacity. However, I draw upon my experiences as one of the few police officers in this country who has policed both the protests and riots of 2020 as well as the insurrection of January 6, 2021. I am intimately familiar with political political violence as when I fought to defend the United States capital and many of your very lives. I was beaten, bloodied, crushed with my eye gouged and my skull smashed with my own baton. Political violence is a worthy topic for discussion. However, the press release I saw from the subcommittee chair made it clear this was not going to be an honest consideration of various causes and effects, but rather a hamfisted attempt to propagate the unsupported notion that liberal ideology is the greatest origin of modern political violence. This is particularly gling to me since every single member of the majority on the subcommittee has either contributed to one of the most infamous examples of conservative political violence of our age or the protection of its perpetrators. Every majority member who could do so voted to acquit Donald Trump during a second impeachment. And now we find ourselves in a new horrific age of political violence. One word is carried out by the state itself. A permanent resident was arrested without a warrant and is being threatened with deportation simply for his politics. A Tennessee man was arrested and is being held on $2 [clears throat] million bail for sharing a Trump meme on social media. Members of Congress have been denied access is facilities despite the law granting them unannounced oversight rights. These detentions and prohibitions [snorts] are all grounded in the threat of deadly force and violence, are absurd or outright illegal, and politically motivated by by right-wing ideology. The fact that these actions are carried out by agents of the state doesn't make them acceptable. It makes them far worse. The current administration is doing whatever it can to downplay the threat that right-wing violence presents to the United States, including literally erasing data. Between September 12th and the 13th of this year, the Department of Justice deleted their own study from their website, which came to the conclusion that right-wing extremism poses a much greater threat than left-wing extremism. I quote, "Now the opening paragraph of this National Institute of Justice report published just last year." Quote, "Militistic, white supremacist violent extremism has increased in the United States. In fact, the number of far-right attacks continues to outpace all other types of terrorism and domestic violence extremism. Since 1990, far-right extremists have committed far more ideologically motivated homicides than far-left or radical Islamist extremists, including 227 events that took more than 520 lives. In this same period, far-left extremists committed 42 ideologically motivated attacks that took 78 lives. A recent threat assessment by the US Department of Homeland Security concluded that domestic violent extremists are an acute threat and highlighted a probability that CO9 pandemic related stressors, long-standing ideological grievances related to immigration and narratives surrounding electoral fraud will continue to serve as a justification for violent actions. There will always be those who seek to further their own political agenda through extraleal violence and that is what law enforcement is for. But to reduce the risk of the population at large from falling under radical rad radicalization, the solution is simple. It's unfettered democracy. One of democracy's greatest assets is how when unsullied, it provides a mechanism for everyone to have their voice heard. And when people believe their government speaks for them in some manner, they're less apt to seek violent means to accomplish their political agendas. So make voting easier, not harder. Stop gerrymandering people into oblivion. Stand on the strength of your ideals, not the depth of your donor's pockets. Stop shopping for judges and start seeking ideas that withstand scrutiny from any political ideology. When you tell the people that an election was stolen from them, they will take up arms against their neighbors without a shred shred of evidence. I know. But if you tell them brilliant political rhetoric is their birthright and civic engagement is their privilege. They'll instead take up the book and the pen and we'll all be richer for it. And when [sighs] you just so you know that this is the um helmet that US Capital Police Officer Brian Siknic wore on January 6, 2021 and um he uh died the following day. We just the family member just got back that just got back that today. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you for your service. Uh next up is Kyle Shidler. uh is the director and senior analyst for homeland security and counterterrorism at the center for security policy where he conducts research and analysis on domestic threats to the US homeland and an emphasis on the doctrines which fuel terrorism and shape the variety of kinetic and non-kinetic threats to America's security. He's briefed senior US government officials, members of Congress, federal, state, and local law enforcement officers, and testified before the US Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution and the Canadian State Senate, the Canadian Senate Standing Committee on National Security and Defense. He is the author of Understanding Black Identity Extremism: Considerations for Law Enforcement, an editor of Unmasking Antifa: Five Perspectives on a Growing Threat, and a contributing author to Saudi Arabia and the Global Islamic Terrorist Network. His writing has appeared in at The Federalist, The Hill, Fox Newsw.com, and the Claremont Review of Books, amongst others. He's a graduate of Boston University and a Lincoln fellow with the Claremont Institute. Floor is yours. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Welch, distinguished senators. Uh, I would like to thank you for the invitation to testify today about the threat our country faces from growing political violence. In my capacity at the Center for Security Policy, one of the things I most proud of is our program to provide educational briefings to law enforcement officers at the federal, state, and local levels. And for the 5 years of this program's operation, the number one most requested briefing topic that we have been asked to provide has been on the topic of Antifa and related left-wing extremist groups. The reason it has been the most requested topic is not because, contrary to media reports, Antifa does not exist. America's law enforcement knows it exists because they see the effects every day. The reason it is the most requested topic is because they cannot get accurate and quality information about the threat. Until recently, the federal government has failed to define the extensive nature of this threat and has demonstrated a history of dismissing or reducing charges against left-wing extremists. But despite this failing, we have seen convictions for acts of political violence by Antifa members who were identified by as such. In 2021, officers and citizens were injured in a violent pre-planned riot carried out by Antifa. The San Diego District Attorney successfully secured convictions against 11 Antifa members, including on charges of conspiracy to riot. In 2023, the state of Florida successfully sued Antifa members under the FACE Act, securing civil fines and felony for their attack on pregnancy crisis centers. This is just one case, but in the five months after the DOB decision was leaked, more than a 100 churches, pregnancy resource centers, and pro-life organizations across the country were attacked. Mr. Nolles has already mentioned the case against Brian Depipa in the federal government's guilty plea, but I think it is worth adding that Mr. Depipa was also the web creator for it's going down an Antifa website which has for years published both ideological manifestos and tactical instructions for aspiring Antifa members including a 2007 forming an antifa group manual which I first brought to the attention of this committee when I testified before it in August of 2020. But what is Antifa? Well, as a recent Department of Justice indictment accurately describes, quote, "Antifa is a militant enterprise made up of networks of individuals and small groups ascribing to a revolutionary anarchist or autonomous Marxist ideology which explicitly calls for the overthrow of the United States government, law enforcement authorities, and system of law. Antifa adherence have espoused insurrection and advocated violence to affect the policy and conduct of the US government by intimidation and coercion." That's a good working definition which would bring US law enforcement into line with the definitions which are utilized by other Western governments which also have an Antifa threat that would include Germany and Sweden. These networks of small direct action groups are connected through ideologically aligned organizations, online platforms and support networks which provide significant amounts of material support. But much of this material support is in the form of services rather than financial transactions. One example, the website abolition media posts communicates from the PFLP, the ELN, the PKK, and the MPA. All of them designated communist terror groups. That alone is actionable material support for terrorism. But it also posts claims of responsibility for anarchist arson attacks and propaganda on behalf of Antifa members currently in prison for violent attacks in the United States, Germany, Chile, Greece, and Hungary. The site distributes calls for actions and organizes efforts for Antifa groups across international borders and even posted an anarchist manual discussing the value of and I quote complex coordinated terrorist attacks. If this site were promoting and advocating violence for al-Qaeda, there would be absolutely no question in the minds of US authorities that it serves as a media arm for a terrorist organization. According to a recent article by journalist Hudson Croer, Abolition Media is just one of a hundred such websites hosted on no blogs, a blogging suite provided by the Italybased Autisticy Inventi Collective, which provides websites, emails, digital encryption tools to Antifa and related left-wing extremist groups, all while hiding their personal data from law enforcement. Very similarly, the International Antifa Defense Fund has distributed over a quarter of million dollars to 800 Antifa members across 26 countries, including not just for legal support, but up to 20% has gone to security improvements and emergency relocation costs for Antifa members. It would be a reasonable avenue of investigation to determine if funds have gone to help fugitive Antifa members avoid arrest. I look forward to working with the committee on ways US policy and legislation might address the threat posed by Antifa and related left-wing extremist groups. >> Thank you. The chair will recognize a ranking member of the judiciary committee uh Senator Durban for his opening remarks. >> I thank Senator Schmidt for that courtesy. At the outset, I want to recognize law enforcement who are here today, including the those who defended the US capital on January 6, 2021, and the family members of those who are no longer with us. Ken Siknic, brother of fallen officer Brian Siknic, is here. He reminds us, and I quote, "The simple act of not letting the events of that day be whitewashed, revised, or forgotten, is more important than anyone can ever know." That statement by Mr. Siknic rings true, painfully true today. This hearing examines a critical issue, political violence in America. I'll I've said before over and over from this podium and will repeat violence is not acceptable whatever the source of or origin I do not believe that one party owns the right to say it's the other party's fault it is the fault of both parties in differing degrees and it's our fault if we try to whitewash that reality to seriously address this problem we must be honest we must start with the facts not with partisan conclusions to claim as the chairman of the subcommittee has and I quote political violence comes predominantly from one side of the aisle and don't give me this both sides BS is not supported by the facts in fact those facts tell a different story for more than a decade for more than a decade data from the FBI DHS and nonpartisan experts show that far-right extremists have been responsible for most domestic terrorism, including most deaths by far. On this chart, which you can see behind me, from the Center for Strategic International Studies, also known as CSIS, terrorist attacks from the right are in red and attacks from the left are in blue. CSIS found that since 2016, 112 people have been killed as a result of right-wing attacks, while three have died as a result of left-wing attacks. These are not partisan talking points. They are the facts established by federal law enforcement and national security experts across numerous administrations, both Democratic and Republican. Indeed, one of today's majority witnesses, Mr. Chad Wolf in his confirmation hearing before Congress act as acting DHS secretary during President Trump's first term testified and I quote, "White supremacist extremists from a lethality standpoint over the last two years are certainly the most persistent and lethal threat when we talk about domestic violent extremists. Far-right extremists were responsible for the January 6, 2021 attack on the capital. I live through it. And they've been responsible for a string of hatefueled massacres targeting ethnic and religious minority communities, including the 2012 GDAR shooting in Oak Creek, Wisconsin, targeting seek Americans, killing seven. The 2015 Mother Emanuel AM Church shooting in Charleston, targeting black Americans, killing nine. The 2018 Tree of Life synagogue shooting in Pittsburgh targeting Jewish Americans, killing 11. The 2019 Walmart shooting in El Paso, targeting Latino Americans, killing 22. And the 2022 top supermarket shooting in Buffalo, targeting black Americans, killing 10. Political violence has continued to rock the nation in recent months. From the assassination of Mr. Kirk to the assassinations of Minnesota House Speaker Ammerita Melissa Hortman and her husband and the attempted assassination of Minnesota State Senator John Hoffman and his wife. Just last week, a man was arrested after allegedly offering $45,000 for the killing of Attorney General Pam Bondi. And a January 6 rioter who was pardoned by President Trump full and unconditional pardon was arrested for allegedly threatening to kill the House Democratic leader Hakee Jeff. I've said it before and I'll say it again. There's no room for political violence in America ever. Ever. Not from the right or from the left. I'm deeply concerned by the Trump administration's response to the political violence crisis. On the one hand, the administration's threatening a crackdown on constitutionally protected speech based on false claims that in the words of Steven Miller, the words of Steven Miller, there is quote a vast domestic terror movement on the left. At the same time, the administration is gutting programs that have proven effective in combating domestic terrorism. For example, the administration has slash slashed the budget of DHS's center for prevention programs and partnerships by more than 30%. cut the center staff by 80 employees to fewer than 20 and appointed a 22year-old Trump campaign official to run the center. We honor our Constitution and serve our country not by rewriting history or weaponizing tragedy but by telling the truth even when it's uncomfortable because democracy cannot survive selective outrage or deliberate amnesia. to the officers and families here today and watching at home. We will never forget January 6. Our duty is to protect the truth, to defend the rule of law, and to be an American that rejects violence in every form. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. >> Thank you, Senator. I want to point out that the CSIS study that's been mentioned here and repeated adnauseium uh excluded violence at protests from their study, allowing them to systematically ignore Antifa and Black Lives Matter riots. But they did make an exception for Charlottesville. Interestingly, even using their flawed methodology, CSIS recently reported that left-wing violence in 2025 outpaces right-wing violence. Imagine how much bigger that disparity would be if they actually weren't cooking the books. So, without objection, I move to enter into the record an article by Tim Carney explaining CIS's biased methodology. Without objection, it'll be entered into the record. We'll start with questionings. Um, Mr. Nolles, I want I want to start with you. Um, you're not going to have any bigger proponent of free speech than me. Um, given especially what I did in my last job and this one, I believe in it wholeheartedly. I think it's the the First Amendment is the beating heart of our Constitution. But what we're really talking about here is conduct, of course, um, violent conduct. And you've talked about u you can't really have this competition in the marketplace if the marketplace uh is being destroyed and and shot up in many instances. How how do we get at this problem? What is what's the road forward in your view? >> We might be able to find a little bipartisan agreement if we acknowledge something that both parties at different times have acknowledged which is that marketplaces of ideas or any other kind of marketplace only function when there are rules and when we abide by those rules. Uh you you can't have a marketplace if bandits keep shooting up the marketplace. And this is why it's so important to identify where the threats to the marketplace have really been coming from. Have we seen left-wing speakers shouted down on campuses? Have we seen left-wing events uh interrupted by terrorists? Uh rarely so, if ever. I can't I can't think of an occasion. I I amused that Senator Durban began by warning against uh pointing to one side or or the other, making this a partisan issue before beginning one of the most partisan invectives that I have I have ever heard. Uh, but I'm not even opposed to a partisan invective here because I think it is very important that we identify where the threats are. I think any honest Democrat even would have to acknowledge as The Atlantic magazine did as even CSIS has acknowledged that the threats today to the free marketplace of ideas come from the left. And so in order to restore the the open marketplace of ideas, the healthy exchange of ideas essential to our self-government, we must regulate where the problem is. And today the problem lies on the left. >> Thank you. Mr. Wolf, I want to I want to ask you and thank you for your your service. Um a common refrain is that Antifa is a an ideology uh not an organization. Could you talk about in your experience how that is complete and utter nonsense that this is actually a pretty well-coordinated organization with safe houses and money that's laundered internationally quite frankly, not just domestically? >> Yeah. Well, I think we've seen that across the country. Uh, I think the, uh, indictment by the Department of Justice in Texas talks about the Antifa cell there in North Texas about how they they do coordinate, how they do, uh, pull their resources. I saw it firsthand in Portland, although it was very difficult to prove at the time. Um, those types of um, anarchists and others there being well organized, being wellunded, being resupplied daily, not, you know, not that they were doing that themselves, but that they had help. And so as you look across the spectrum here, you know, is Antifa like other organizations, does it have a hierarchy and an org chart and everything else? No, it's very different. Uh but that doesn't make it any less dangerous. That doesn't say and that shouldn't mean from a law enforcement perspective, well, let's not let's not actually investigate. Let's not actually start to look at who these individuals are, how they're organized, how they're funded, how they're financed. Uh just because they're decentralized doesn't doesn't make them any less threatening. >> Thank you, Mr. Schneiderler. Um, let me go to you and pick up on that point because you alluded to it in your testimony. Um, understanding what Antifa is, um, and its connections and organization, what what are some some suggestions you might have of how we could get at this problem of this radical organization hellbent on destroying America? I mean, this is their stated mission. How do we get about that? >> Uh, well, I'm a firm supporter of um the president's um recommendation to to target Antifa as a foreign terrorist organization. There are a number of Antifa organizations that operate across Western Europe and Latin America which would be justified we would be justified in designating as a foreign terrorist organization. Um there are also a number of networks which provide material support um including the one that I mentioned in my testimony and that is a very common method in which uh Antifa receives support. um much like for example Islamic State or al-Qaeda where they host media outlets uh like Deique and Inspire which will give you both ideological um instructions as to how to become uh Antifa, what you need to believe and how you need to believe it. Uh they also provide instructions on what you should do if you wish to be Antifa including how you should organize, how you can avoid arrest, what uh encrypted apps to use, what websites to use. Uh they'll also provide instructions on how to destroy critical infrastructure including 5G uh wireless communications and how to derail trains um as for example the website it's going down did uh in a case that was related to two anarchists in the Pacific Northwest that derailed a number of trains in which the federal government received uh was able to achieve a conviction. So uh these these networks can be targeted for for engaging in material support for terrorism. We are not talking about speech. We are talking about uh manifestos describing how to overthrow the government and how to do that with violence. >> Thank you. And I the President Trump has designated Antifa as a domestic terrorist organization and I've written to Secretary Rubio for the international the foreign terrorist organization and we'll we'll see what happens with that. Um ranking member Welsh. >> Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. I I want to ask uh Mr. Hodgees, you were here on in in duty in uniform on January 6. Uh can you tell us just what you went through and what the size of the crowd was that was attacking the capital? >> Certainly. I'll try to be brief. It was a very long day. Started at 7 in the morning on Constitution Avenue. Uh was everyone filed into the ellipse to hear Trump [sighs and gasps] give his rally, so to speak. And then they um afterwards they started heading back towards the cap up Constitution Avenue towards the capital. Um I heard on my radio that they discovered bombs. Um I I heard on my radio that the capital was becoming under attack. The commander who was on scene at the capital was getting overwhelmed and called for my platoon to reinforce them. So we we did. We got on our uh our pads, made our way down to the capital. So you went to where the trouble was, >> correct? Yes. Um we we got as far as the edge of the western property. Um but the crowd was so dense, you know, we couldn't get any closer than that in a vehicle. So we got out on foot, started making our way towards the western terrace itself. Um while we were walking through the crowd, you know, all Trump supporters, Trump flags, Trump gear, they started um yelling at us, calling us stormtroopers, um telling us to remember our oaths, calling us traitors. And we hadn't done anything yet. Um, so >> you were uniformed off