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Charlie Kirk is the Founder and President of Turning Point USA, the largest and fastest growing conservative youth activist organization in the country with over 250,000 student members, over 150 full-time staff, and a presence on over 2,000 high school and college campuses nationwide. Charlie is also the Chairman of Students for Trump, which aims to activate one million new college voters on campuses in battleground states in the lead up to the 2020 presidential election. His social media reaches over 100 million people per month and according to Axios, he is one of the "top 10 most engaged" Twitter handles in the world. He is also the host of “The Charlie Kirk Show,” which regularly ranks among the top news shows on Apple podcast charts.
Subscribe on YouTubeTyler O'Neal Exposes Southern Poverty Law Center as Corrupt Operation Masquerading as Civil Rights Organization
Tyler O'Neal, senior editor at Daily Signal and author of Making Hate Pay: The Corruption of the Southern Poverty Law Center, breaks down how the SPLC transformed from a legitimate civil rights law firm into what he describes as a fundraising operation that labels mainstream conservative groups as hate organizations. O'Neal discusses the organization's $700 million endowment, mysterious Cayman Island accounts, and its controversial "hate map" that has been linked to multiple incidents of political violence, including the 2012 Family Research Council shooting and the addition of Turning Point USA to their list. The conversation explores the SPLC's business model of stoking fear among elderly liberal donors while maintaining ties to corporations like PayPal, and examines potential legal avenues to hold the organization accountable for what critics call a dangerous blacklisting operation.
From Civil Rights to Cash Cow: The SPLC's Transformation
The Southern Poverty Law Center began as a public interest civil rights law firm representing poor people in the South. The organization initially believed in representing everyone, even taking on reverse racism cases representing white men who had been discriminated against in majority black employment opportunities. However, according to Tyler O'Neal, the organization's trajectory changed when founder Morris Dees realized that going after the Ku Klux Klan generated the most attention and money.
While O'Neal acknowledges that suing Klan groups into bankruptcy represented wins for America, he points to a significant moment in the 1980s when the SPLC's legal team quit en masse. These attorneys had signed up to represent poor people in the South, not to hunt Klan groups. They described the lawsuits involving the Klan as "shooting fish in a barrel" and expressed concern about the SPLC's developing ties with law enforcement.
The Birth of the Controversial Hate Map
Around the year 2000, the SPLC entered what O'Neal calls its third iteration. Having run out of Klan groups and "grand dragons to conquer," the organization started placing mainstream conservative and Christian organizations on their hate map alongside chapters of the Ku Klux Klan. According to the SPLC's framing, this hate map shows the infrastructure upholding white supremacy in the United States of America.
Organizations like the Family Research Council, Alliance Defending Freedom, and the Federation for American Immigration Reform found themselves listed on this map. O'Neal explains that being placed on the hate map means the SPLC compares these organizations to the Klan, presenting them as violent forces of hate that need to be monitored by law enforcement and cut off from polite society. The SPLC then takes this hate map to big tech companies, corporations, and the charitable sector, advocating for the blacklisting of listed organizations.
The Family Research Council Shooting and Pattern of Violence
A watershed moment that drew O'Neal's attention to the SPLC occurred in 2012 when a terrorist targeted the Family Research Council in Washington, DC. The attacker used the SPLC hate map to locate the conservative Christian nonprofit, arriving with a semi-automatic pistol and a bag of Chick-fil-A sandwiches. He told the FBI he planned to shoot everyone in the building and smear Chick-fil-A sandwiches in their faces.
While the SPLC condemned the attack, they never removed the Family Research Council from their hate map. O'Neal points to this as part of a disturbing pattern. In 2017, a man who had liked the SPLC on Facebook opened fire at congressional baseball game practice, nearly killing Steve Scalise. The SPLC's response to these incidents consistently includes condemnations of political violence, but no substantive action like removing organizations from their controversial list.
Turning Point USA Added to the List
The situation escalated when the SPLC added Turning Point USA to the hate map. O'Neal broke this story after discovering the addition on social media and in the Daily Signal. The placement of the largest conservative grassroots youth organization on a map with chapters of the Klan represented what O'Neal describes as being "so far off the reservation." The timing became even more tragic when Charlie Kirk was murdered, raising questions about whether the SPLC's hate map functions as what O'Neal calls "to some degree a kill list."
The Business Model: Fear and Fundraising
The SPLC operates with over $700 million in their endowment and maintains millions of dollars in Cayman Island accounts offshore, the purpose of which remains unexplained for a nonprofit organization. Their business model involves positioning themselves as the premier force monitoring and combating hate in America, then constantly alerting donors that hate is increasing.
Their donor base traces back to supporters of the George McGovern campaign from 1972, representing Democrats who wanted things to move further left. The organization sends letters warning that the number of hate groups in America has grown dramatically, targeting older liberals who donate out of fear. O'Neal describes it as a scare operation that whips up donors into a frenzy to generate revenue.
Internal Scandals and the 2019 Upheaval
In 2019, the SPLC faced a major internal crisis when co-founder Morris Dees was fired amid allegations of racial discrimination and sexual harassment. The president resigned, and Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson stepped down from the board. Despite initial coverage in legacy media, the scandal largely disappeared from public view. The organization brought in Michelle Obama's chief of staff to conduct a full investigation, but no results or findings from this investigation have ever been publicly released.
O'Neal also notes that the SPLC was accused of union busting and has faced allegations of racism from its own staff. Lower-level employees, many of whom were non-white, claimed that Dees was bullying them in what they characterized as racist attacks. The irony of a civil rights organization facing credible accusations of internal racism was not lost on critics.
Corporate Ties and the Blacklisting Operation
The SPLC maintains relationships with major corporations and tech platforms like PayPal, using these connections to advocate for the blacklisting of organizations on their hate map. This extends beyond simple criticism into what amounts to interference with business practices, as the SPLC actively works to cut off listed organizations from financial services, social media platforms, and charitable giving networks.
The organization also developed troubling ties to Antifa and on-the-ground violent leftist groups, according to O'Neal. While the full extent of these connections hasn't been proven, the SPLC has hired Antifa-affiliated researchers. O'Neal describes the SPLC as representing an interesting mix of old liberals who have passed the torch to new violent leftists.
Potential Legal Avenues for Accountability
O'Neal discusses several potential approaches to holding the SPLC accountable. Senator Ted Cruz has proposed a bill that would add rioting to the RICO statute, which could open new legal possibilities. Currently, RICO statutes were designed to target the mafia and don't include inciting riots, limiting their application to organizations that may be coordinating with violent groups.
Defamation lawsuits represent another promising avenue. A particularly strong case exists in Georgia involving a group called the Dustin Inman Society. The organization has documentation showing the SPLC is on record stating that the Dustin Inman Society is not a hate group, yet the SPLC added them to the hate map after they registered a lobbyist to oppose a bill the Society supported. O'Neal believes defamation remains one of the strongest legal strategies against the SPLC.
There may also be grounds for lawsuits based on interference with business practices, given the SPLC's active efforts to blacklist organizations from corporate partnerships and financial services. O'Neal suggests that if there was ever a case to overturn New York Times v. Sullivan, the landmark Supreme Court decision that makes it difficult for public figures to win defamation cases, the SPLC's activities provide the best example.
Kash Patel Severs FBI Ties with SPLC
In breaking news, Kash Patel officially severed ties between the FBI and the SPLC. The announcement suggested Patel may not have been fully aware of the official relationship until comments surfaced on social media. While the tie likely wasn't significantly impacting FBI operations, the existence of any formal relationship between federal law enforcement and an organization with such a controversial track record was considered offensive by critics.
The Path Forward
O'Neal argues that the SPLC needs to do more than simply condemn political violence in press releases. At minimum, they should remove Turning Point USA from the hate map, though he believes the entire map should be scrapped. The organization continues to borrow from its noble past, wearing what O'Neal describes as "the robes of an admirable generation gone by" while operating in ways that bear no resemblance to its original civil rights mission.
Potential investigations could come from the Alabama Attorney General's office, where the SPLC is based, or from federal authorities. The combination of the organization's massive endowment, offshore accounts, internal scandals, and connections to political violence create multiple predicates for legitimate investigations. The question remains whether legal and political will exists to take on an organization that still maintains significant influence in corporate America and maintains the veneer of civil rights advocacy.
Video Transcript
We have a lot to get to. The SPLC is in
the news uh breaking just moments ago.
Cash Patel has a officially severed ties
between the FBI and the SPLC. It kind of
had a vibe that he wasn't even aware
that there there was a tie until
comments were were were floated on on
social media. I I doubt it was impacting
his job so much, but the fact that there
was official tie was pretty offensive.
Um, so I want to welcome in the guy who
wrote the book on the SPL SPLC and that
is Tyler O'Neal. He's the senior editor
at Daily Signal and he also is the
author of the book Making Hate Pay: The
Corruption of the Southern Poverty Law
Center. So, Tyler O'Neal, welcome to the
show. Thank you for making the time.
I've been seeing you all over social
media trying to raise the alarm bells
about the SPLC, and I got a lot of
questions. Uh, Blake might chime in.
Mike, you might chime in, but I'm just
going to start. Explain to me why you
what inspired you to write the book in
the first place because you were ahead
of the curve. And for those who are
unaware of what the SPLC is, Tyler, tell
us what it is and what it's become.
>> Yeah. Thank Thank you so much for having
me. Let me just say it is an honor to be
on the Charlie Kirk show. uh you know
being seeing everything that Charlie did
to champion free speech on our college
campuses after it had been stifled for
so long and you know seeing him become
the martyr to free speech that he was. I
mean it just it shook me to my core but
he has been such an inspiration and it
means the world to me to be here. So I
just want to mention that.
>> No thank you for that. Yeah thank you.
Uh but yeah, to answer your question, so
the Southern Poverty Law Center, uh as
the name suggests, it began as a public
interest civil rights law firm that
represented poor people in the South.
And back in the day, it believed in
representing everyone. So it actually
had a reverse racism case representing
white men who had been discriminated
against in a majority black employment
opportunity. So, you know, this was a
noble organization, but the leader of
that organization, the the main
fundraiser, Morris, he started realizing
that he could make the most amount of
money by going after the Ku Klux Clan.
And this is, you know, let me be clear,
the Clan is evil incarnate in my mind. I
mean, they are the quintessential hate
group in American history. And so every
time that the SPLC sued a clan group
into bankruptcy, I think that's a win
for America. Um, but what we see in the
1980s is that this is the thing that got
the SPLC attention and money. And we
actually had uh the legal team at the
SPLC quit and mass because they had
signed up to work at the SPLC to
represent poor people in the South, not
to go hunting clan groups. And all the
lawsuits involving the clan they said
were like shooting fish in a barrel.
They were also disturbed by the fact
that the SPLC was starting to develop
ties with law enforcement, that they
were feeding, that they were guiding law
enforcement to find people who were, you
know, at the time, you know, real racist
threats. But eventually, you know, the
SPLC created those ties to law
enforcement that would later become what
we saw horrifically in the Biden years
and even before that to some degree. So
the SPLC around the year 2000 is when
they start their third iteration. They
had run out of clan groups. They ran out
of grand dragons to conquer and they
started putting mainstream conservative
and Christian organizations on their
hate map with chapters of the Ku Klux
Clan. And they say that this hate map
shows the infrastructure upholding white
supremacy in the United States of
America. So make no make no mistake if
you are the family research council if
you are alliance defending freedom if
you are you know the federation for
American immigration reform and they put
you on that hate map they are comparing
you to the clan saying you are a violent
force of hate that needs to be monitored
by law enforcement that needs to be cut
off from polite society and the SPLC
takes this hate map goes to big tech
goes to corporations says you need to
use this to blacklist people goes to the
charitable sector says you need to
blacklist people on this. So one of the
things that really drew my attention to
the SPLC was in 2012 when a terrorist
targeted the family research council in
Washington DC. They're a conservative
Christian nonprofit.
>> This guy showed up there. He used the
SPLC hate map to find them. He had a
semi-automatic pistol and a bag of
Chick-fil-A sandwiches. And he told the
FBI he planned to shoot everyone in the
building and smear a Chick-fil-A
sandwich in their faces. And the SPLC
rightly, you know, condemned the attack,
but the SPLC hasn't taken the Family
Research Council off their hate map. And
if anything, the SPLC has gotten far
worse. So, I mean, as you put up there
on the screen rightly, uh, the SPLC
added Turning Point USA to the hate map
earlier this year, and I was the first
one to realize that and break the story
on X,
>> on the Daily Signal. But, you know, this
this is when they're putting the largest
conservative grassroots youth
organization on a map with chapters of
the clan. This is so far off the
reservation. I mean, you can't make this
up. And yet, we saw just a couple months
later a man allegedly opening fire and
murdering Charlie Kirk in cold blood.
And we don't know if he was at all
inspired by the SPLC, but it really
looks like the SPLC's hate map is to
some degree a kill list. And this is,
you know, this isn't the first time.
This isn't even the second time the
SPLC's been tied to political terrorism.
It also happened in 2017 when that man
opened fire, nearly killed Steve Scaliz
at the congressional baseball game
practice and he had liked the SPLC on
Facebook. Now, every time this sort of
thing happens, the SPLC says, "We
condemn political violence. We condemn
political violence." I'm sorry. They
need to put their money where their
mouth is and have at least one monocum
of actually doing something and taking
Turning Point USA off the hate map. They
they need to scrap it entirely. But I've
been asking directly specifically one
specific ask and they can't do that.
>> Well, no, I appreciate you keeping such
a eye on this. uh you you've been
exceptional in your focus and in in just
holding them to account and I but I I I
I think we need much more than just
taking Turning Point off a list at this
point. I I completely agree. I I posted
last night on X that I that their hate
hate list was really just a hit list and
Elon Musk I guess is quote quote tweeted
it which you know good for him. uh and
he's been excellent on this ADL and SPLC
and and at some point it stops mattering
Tyler if
>> you know he these people were directly
you know motivated by something they saw
in the SPLC it creates a it creates an
ecosystem of political violence a sheen
of legitimacy to the political violence
>> I think you know Tyler can explain this
but they basically run this like scare
operation you know, they'll send you a
letter and they're like, "The number of
hate groups in America has grown by 50%
in the last 2 years. Hate is on the
rise."
>> You know, and it's all they go after
older liberals who are like terrified
the Holocaust is going to happen again.
It's like around every corner and they
just like whip them up into a frenzy to
make money. But I think you can explain
more, Tyler.
>> Yeah. Tyler, is it is am I accurate in
saying that they have just under a
billion dollars in reserves?
They have, yeah, they have over $700
million in their endowment. They have
millions of dollars in Cayman Island
accounts offshore, which we still don't
have an answer as to why a nonprofit has
Cayman Island accounts, but yeah, I
mean, essentially the business model is
we position ourselves as the premier
force monitoring and combating hate in
America. And then we constantly go to
our donors and say, "Look, hate is
increasing. Here's why. Everyone to the
right of Adolf Hitler, everyone to the
right of Joseph Stalin is, you know, is
a is essentially Adolf Hitler. And so
you have this situation where the SPLC
puts you on this map that's not clear
how you can ever get off of the map. And
then they go to their donors. And by the
way, their donors are from the George
McGovern campaign. So these are the
these are the donors, the Democrats who
wanted things to be further left back in
the n the 1970s. That's where the first
big trunch of donors or actually it was
68 the big no no 72 sorry the big the
big trunch of donors is from there and
then it's all the people since then and
now they've positioned themselves
they're working very closely with well I
I mean we don't have entire proof but
they have a lot of disturbing ties to
Antifa and the people on the ground who
have been engaging in these violent
riots and so what you have with the
Southern Poverty Law Center is this
interesting mix of these old liberals
who kind of passed the torch to the new
on the ground violent leftists and they
have been making the SPLC
uh you know there there's a big battle
at the SPLC last year they were accused
of union busting uh and to to answer
your original question why I wrote the
book was partially because of the F FRC
shooting partially Because in 2019 we
had a racial discrimination and sexual
harassment scandal where the founder of
the SPLC the the co-founder Morris was
fired. The president resigned. It was a
huge deal. Jocelyn Benson um by the way
the secretary of state for Michigan
stepped down from the board at this time
and the SPLC went through this scandal.
We saw a couple of reports in the legacy
media but mostly it was crickets. And
then a couple months later, you had the
new president of the SPLC coming out
comparing the SPLC to the Underground
Railroad. And I said, "No, we are not
going to allow the SPLC to bury this
scandal,
>> and I want people to know how
untrustworthy this group is."
>> Absolutely. Well, and this is what
bothers me, Blake, is how they borrow
from an actually noble past, and they
they keep dawning the the robes of a of
an admirable generation gone by. And and
you know, you could have disagreements
even with that. I I certainly do, but
like at least there was an
acknowledgement that, hey, there was
legitimately clan members that were, you
know, hostile to blacks in the South. I
mean, I'm sure there still are, but I
mean, it was it was actually a thing
that probably needed to be addressed,
right? Uh, and the fact that they showed
a little bit of impartiality playing it
both ways shows that there was some good
at least some good sense, some old
school values that were in the
organization that is way way gone. But
what I want I'm curious about is how do
we actually go after this group with
some teeth, right? They live in Alabama
or they're based in Alabama. It sounds
like you just laid out a bunch of
predicates for legitimate
investigations. maybe by the Alabama
Attorney General's office or maybe by
the Har Dylan needs to get involved. But
also they have ties to PayPal and other
corporations. Am I right? So this is I
mean we can't use like RICO, right? We
went through that last night because you
know whether they're working with Antifa
or not. One of the things that I've
learned because of Blake is that the
original RICO statutes were designed to
go after the mafia. So there's not like
inciting a riot is part of the statutes.
And think about it in the context of
SPLC. We can't get them on RICO charges.
Even if they are coordinating,
>> we're we're mixing streams here cuz the
RICO stuff we've been talking about is
the supporters of Antifa.
>> I just want to know how you can actually
get them.
>> Well, so the SPLC, I don't think the
SPLC is as tied to the really bad uh
Antifa stuff cuz they're almost too much
of a scam for that. Like it's real
leftwing organizations that are doing
that like to get real gains. The SPLC is
like this giant pile of Morris Diesa's
money that he built through like decades
of all of this like scam stuff.
>> They did hire an Antifa uh research an
Antifa affiliated researcher.
>> I'm sure they have. I'm sure they have.
>> Yeah.
>> But what they also have is I honestly I
think say the funniest thing you could
go after them for is and you can
probably talk about this too. In 2019
D's got forced out. Yeah.
>> Because
>> sexual assault. Well, it was like
implied sex stuff and then like racism
stuff which is even funnier. Like it's
it seems that he was basically bullying
lower staff who were heavily non-white
and they were like this is this is a
racist attack from Morest and they
forced him out. They brought in Michelle
Obama's chief of staff and said she is
going to do a full investigation of
everything that happened.
>> No one has ever heard anything of this
investigation since. Nothing has come of
this. You have left-wingers writing
articles where they say this
organization is a con. It is a scam.
>> Yeah.
>> I think you could tell me here, Tyler,
but I think there's enough where you
just have to start poking at this and
one see if staff will talk about
anything and you Yeah. What's the money
going towards? They they turn a about
$30 million a year profit.
>> We have to wrap soon. So, one one minute
Tyler, the floor is yours to take us
home.
>> Yeah. So, one of the things when you're
talking about RICO, Ted Cruz has a bill
that would add rioting to the RICO
statute. That's the number one thing.
Number two thing, there is a um
>> the SPLC has faces defamation lawsuits.
There's a really strong case in Georgia
by a group called the Dustin Inman
Society that has been on the hate map
and they have this really solid, you
know, the SPLC is on record saying
Dustin Inman Society is not a hate group
and then they add it to the hate map
after they register a lobbyist to oppose
a bill the Dustin Society supported. I
still think defamation is one of the
strongest ways that we get the SPLC. But
the other thing you can do is talk about
how they're trying to blacklist people
and going after them. And I think there
might be a predicate there for some sort
of interference with business practices
sort of lawsuit too. I I tend to look a
lot at the lawsuit side partially
because I'm not quite as wellversed in
the criminal law and I've been following
the defamation lawsuits against the SPLC
for a long time. I want a good strong
defamation lawsuit to hold the SPLC
accountable for consistently dragging
people's names through the mud. And if
there ever was a case to overturn New
York Times v. Sullivan, I think the
SPLC's shenanigans is the best example.
>> Well, that I hope that's not a glass
half full view because Times v Sullivan
has has been a thorn in a lot of
people's sides for a long time. Uh,
anyways, that's this is Tyler O'Neal,
senior editor of the Daily Signal and
author of Making Hate Ping Hate Pay, the
corruption of the Southern Poverty Law
Center. Thank you so much, Tyler. Uh,
we'll have you on again soon as this
story uh continues to evolve. Thank you.
Thanks again for having