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Barack Obama on Defeating Trumpism, Rebuilding Democratic Trust, and the Future of Progressive Politics in America
Barack Obama joins Pod Save America to discuss winning the midterms, countering Republican extremism, and preserving democracy. He addresses why Democrats struggle with non-college voters, warns against excessive identity politics, explains what he admires about candidates like John Fetterman, and shares why pointing out Trump's outrageous behavior isn't enough to win elections. Obama also reflects on Supreme Court legitimacy, Iranian protests, Ukraine, and the structural challenges threatening democracy worldwide.
The Three-Part Strategy for Winning Midterm Elections
Barack Obama believes Democrats face a critical choice in the upcoming midterm elections. While Republicans have given Democrats powerful arguments—from election denialism to abortion extremism to plans for cutting Social Security—Obama argues these must be woven into a coherent narrative about preserving democracy and delivering for working families.
The first priority, Obama insists, is defending democracy itself. Republican officials have shown they're willing to subvert basic democratic procedures like counting votes and ensuring people can vote. This represents a fundamental threat that goes beyond typical partisan disagreements.
Second, Democrats must make concrete economic arguments. Even with slim majorities, the Biden Administration has delivered historic accomplishments: an infrastructure bill creating jobs nationwide, the Inflation Reduction Act lowering prescription drug prices and energy costs, and the first major gun safety legislation in 30 years. These tangible improvements in people's lives should inspire turnout.
Third, the overturning of Roe versus Wade has shown that rights long taken for granted can disappear. Obama notes this has been particularly striking for young people who had never experienced such a significant rollback of rights. The decision threatens not just abortion access but privacy rights generally, putting LGBTQ rights and other freedoms at risk.
Why Character Attacks on Trump Aren't Enough
Obama offers a frank assessment of why Democrats struggled in 2016 and warns against repeating those mistakes. While Trump's outrageous behavior generates enormous attention, and candidates who copy him behave outrageously as well, spending too much energy pointing out their latest crazy statements misses what voters actually care about.
Voters are primarily concerned with fundamental issues: Can I pay the rent? What are gas prices? How am I dealing with childcare? Obama admits that in 2016, Democrats understandably thought pointing out unprecedented behavior would be enough to win. The lesson from recent years is that while it's an advantage for candidates to be decent, thoughtful, and well-informed, elections cannot be treated as character tests alone.
Democrats must engage on the issues and make concrete arguments about how Democratic policies improve people's lives—ensuring living wages, workplace protections, affordable education, and accessible healthcare through the Affordable Care Act. These arguments matter even when Democrats model better political behavior through their conduct.
The Democrats' Problem with Non-College Voters
Obama acknowledges a troubling trend: Democrats keep performing worse with voters without college degrees. Initially this affected white voters, which some attributed to racial resentment. Now Latino voters without college degrees are leaving the party, and even some Black voters are shifting.
Obama references an unpublished 250-page manuscript he wrote in law school arguing that Democrats need appeals based more on class than race to build durable majorities. While he watches with pride as America has become more aware of racism, sexism, and homophobia—and movements like Me Too and Black Lives Matter have changed culture in positive ways—he believes Democrats face a challenge in political messaging.
When putting together durable majorities, Democrats must speak to everyone about their common interests. What works for everyone is the idea of basic equal treatment and fairness—an argument compatible with both progress on social issues and economic issues.
The problem arises when Democrats suggest that some groups deserve different status because they've been historically victimized, or when the party appears to be scolding people for not using exactly the right phrase. When identity politics becomes the principal lens for viewing political challenges, average folks feel excluded from the conversation rather than brought into it.
Obama emphasizes he never shied away during his presidency from making strong arguments on behalf of historically subjugated groups and never ignored history. But there was always an invitation to people: all of us, regardless of status, want fairness and equality and want our children treated with respect and dignity. Leaning into those universal arguments works better than framing issues as "we're deserving and you guys are the problem."
What Makes John Fetterman Different
Obama points to Pennsylvania Senate candidate John Fetterman as an example of what Democrats need more of. Fetterman was the only elected official in Western Pennsylvania who endorsed Obama's 2008 campaign, showing he recognized something authentic early on.
What Obama loves about Fetterman and similar candidates is that conversations with them feel normal, and they have a sense of how the rest of America lives. If Fetterman walked into a diner and started talking about issues, you might not agree with everything he said, but you'd feel his point of view was informed by real life experiences. He's honest about what he believes, open to changing his mind if you make a good argument, and clearly cares about people.
Obama notes these qualities don't always apply to successful Republican candidates, which he suspects relates to how conservative media has a lock on presenting people and establishing dominant narratives. People will vote for someone like Ron DeSantis even though he doesn't seem like fun to hang out with. Obama quips that DeSantis seems like a robot doing Trump without the charisma—something that will be a problem for him.
How Republicans Damage the Democratic Brand
Obama explains that Democratic policies like Medicaid expansion and raising the minimum wage often poll 15 points better than the Democratic politicians who want to pass them. This gap exists because Republicans and conservative media have cleverly found the most outrageous examples of overwrought cancel culture and flash them on screen as if they represent the Democratic Party platform.
The message Republicans sell constantly is that elite coastal liberals look down on voters, think they're stupid, and don't mean what they say because they only care about keeping people down and lifting themselves up. Given that this message is constantly in the air Republicans breathe and voters are exposed to, Democrats must bend over backwards to counteract it so people actually hear about policy.
Democrats should embrace candidates who come off as regular people. Every once in a while saying something a little off-script that might make college campus audiences aghast can be healthy. Obama isn't suggesting every candidate needs to fake being someone they're not—nothing is worse than politicians trying awkwardly to be "down with the people."
But Obama recalls being in places during campaigns where many thought he couldn't get votes because of his biography, yet people sensed he related to them and got them. Democrats need to embrace and claim that quality. Getting too professorial, sounding like you're delivering policy gobbledygook from behind a podium—that's not how people think about issues. They think about their daily lives: family, kids, satisfying work, having fun, not being a buzz kill.
Sometimes Democrats are buzzkills, Obama admits. Sometimes people just want to not feel like they're walking on eggshells. They want acknowledgment that life is messy and all of us can say things the wrong way or make mistakes. He references how Michelle Obama talks about her mother, who at 86 sometimes doesn't get the right phraseology on certain issues—like trying to learn Spanish, she should try but won't always get the words right, and that's okay. Being a little more real and grounded goes a long way in counteracting the systematic propaganda pumped out by Fox News and similar outlets.
Standing with Iranian Protesters
Obama recently released a statement with Michelle supporting Iranian protesters. He explains there's no way to predict how the protests will play out—the Arab Spring and the 2009 Green Movement taught everyone not to underestimate sheer force and violence and the repressive mechanisms governments like Iran have in place.
However, several conclusions are clear: deep dissatisfaction exists with the Iranian regime; women in particular are fed up with systematic discrimination and subjugation, and the arbitrariness and cruelty the state exercises against them; and their willingness to say "we're tired of this" is extraordinarily powerful.
Reflecting on 2009-2010, Obama acknowledges a big debate occurred inside the White House about whether he should publicly affirm the Green Movement, since activists were being accused of being tools of the West. Some thought public support would undermine their credibility in Iran. In retrospect, Obama believes that was a mistake.
Every time we see a glimmer of hope of people longing for freedom, we must point it out, shine a spotlight on it, and express solidarity. This doesn't mean an administration shouldn't take other equities into account—presidents must make difficult decisions about doing business with repressive governments in a complicated world.
But our moral response to the incredible courage of Iranian women and girls on the streets, knowing they're putting themselves in harm's way to speak truth to power, must be to affirm what they do and hope it creates more space for civic conversation that can take the country down a better path.
Ukraine, Nuclear Threats, and Putin's Isolation
After eight or nine months of Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Obama is impressed by how effectively Ukrainians have fought and how much Europe has stepped up to support them. The Ukrainian accomplishment is extraordinary—a testimony not just to soldiers' courage but to an entire nation mobilizing and making tremendous sacrifices in the face of overwhelming odds. Zelensky himself has risen to the moment in ways his biography wouldn't have necessarily anticipated.
At the end of the day, it's not America's job to tell Ukrainians when is it enough, how far they should go, or what concessions they should make. That's up to them. As their allies, it's important to support them financially, militarily, and through intelligence.
However, America and NATO must be clear and honest with Ukraine about what they can and cannot do. There are lines to determine internally that take into account the risk of this tipping into a Russia-U.S.-NATO conflict rather than remaining a Russia-Ukraine conflict. Obama isn't privy to enough current intelligence as a private citizen to weigh in on where that line should be drawn.
When thinking about what weapons to send or how to approach support for Ukraine, considering where defense stops and offense begins and how to manage that requires attention. Obama's greatest concern is that lines of communication between the White House and the Kremlin are probably as weak as they've been in a very long time.
Even at the lowest points of the Cold War, there was still a sense of being able to pick up a phone and work through diplomatic channels to send clear signals. Much of that has broken down. Obama doesn't think this is the fault of the current administration—they're dealing with a type of Russian regime that is even more centralized, isolated, and closed off than before. Putin has consolidated decision-making to a degree not seen even during the Soviet era, creating dangers. Finding ways to re-establish some communication would be important while defending democratic values.
The Supreme Court's Legitimacy Crisis
When asked about Supreme Court reform, Obama acknowledges the Court is at its lowest esteem in history, with polls showing tremendous distrust and voters saying it's rigged, political, and doesn't represent the majority. He's open to reforms but believes they must be thought through carefully.
The arguments made when Mitch McConnell invented a new principle about Merrick Garland (which he later breached) highlighted how explicit political games in the appointment process make it hard for people not to view the Court as just an extension of day-to-day Congressional politics rather than standing above those politics.
Winning back trust will take time and won't be solved unless the underlying polarization is addressed. Obama notes he's been talking for a long time about the fever breaking in the Republican Party, acknowledging he's under no illusions that will be fixed anytime soon.
If Democrats reform the Supreme Court simply by finding ways to get more Democrats on there and stack it up, that won't solve the legitimacy problem—it just means Democrats will win more cases for a while. As someone who thinks there's a right way to think about women's reproductive health and equality for the LGBTQ+ community, Obama would prefer winning five to four rather than losing six to three.
But what he'd like even more is finding ways for justices to bring their own perspectives while being willing to look at precedent and how society is moving, making judgments not based on rigid ideological criteria.
Why Progressives Can't Count on Courts Alone
Obama points to something from his recently surfaced law school paper: it's important for progressives not to count too much on courts. One problem with Roe was that it made many voters complacent, figuring they didn't need to trudge over and vote in obscure midterm elections because the Supreme Court was protecting the right to choose.
Even with an independent, thoughtful Supreme Court that isn't entirely ideologically driven, it's still part of our democracy and reflective of our politics. You still have to do the work on the ground of changing hearts and minds because the Court generally follows societal trends more than it leads. It's very rare for the Court to get ahead of society in significant ways.
When the Court has gotten ahead, it's more often done bad things rather than good things. Brown versus Board of Education and Roe versus Wade may be two exceptions, but even after those decisions, the issues weren't settled and politics didn't go away—as we've just learned.
There are no shortcuts. We have to work, get out, vote, engage in conversations, and reach into places where the majority doesn't agree with us on these issues to make our case. That work never stops.
Obama's biggest worry during these midterms—something that happened throughout his presidency and pretty much every Democratic presidency—is that Democratic voters get hyped up around presidential races and lose interest during midterms. Then they're puzzled about why more isn't happening, and use that as an excuse not to vote again in the next midterms.
A Message to Disengaged Progressives
For those whose attitude is "I'm so progressive that I don't bother voting because it's all just a neoliberal plot," Obama offers a concrete example: the climate provisions in the Biden Administration bill won't solve climate problems—temperatures are still rising, the planet is still warming. But it makes a huge difference whether the planet goes up two percent, three percent, or four percent. That might mean billions of people displaced or not displaced, entire cities flooded or not.
If your vote makes it more likely that temperatures rise 2.2 percent rather than three percent, that has to be worth 15 minutes of your time. The same is true for racial justice—your vote won't eliminate racism or problems between police and communities of color, but it could mean a different district attorney somewhere, or investment in diversion programs that give kids a chance instead of locking them up for 20 years. That has to be worth 15 minutes of your time, and then you can continue working for the broader vision you're looking for.
Obama gets frustrated with the "I'm too cool to vote" attitude floating around the internet among folks who purport to be progressive. He can't wrap his head around that argument because these folks aren't out leading the revolution—they're on social media, not knocking on doors, not offering a plausible alternative course of action.
This is the game we have, this is the power we have, and it turns out that power is pretty significant. Will it get us all the way to the promised land? No. But that's how things get better. And better is good.
Post-Presidential Life and Developing New Leaders
The current political crisis has changed how Obama thinks about his post-presidential role. The first four years after leaving office, he was probably more active politically than anticipated because the stakes were high enough during his successor's term that he was more vocal than planned.
With Joe Biden in the White House, Obama has been trying to refocus attention on his original intention: developing next generation leaders through foundation work. He's now more attuned to being explicit about the democratic values at stake and is becoming more interested in partnering with organizations experimenting with ways to strengthen our democratic muscles.
Issues like misinformation and creating a social media environment in which facts, reason, and logic have a shot are important. This needs to go beyond the 60 percent of the country that already occupies that space and reach the 40 percent who consume most of their news through Fox or whatever the latest radio host or podcaster is on the right.
Obama knows those folks—looking at a place like Iowa, what's changed there? It's the same people, they're just getting different information. The filter is so thick that if he went back into the exact same communities, it would be much harder to get a hearing. So he's spending a lot of time thinking about tools to crack that code.
He's also thinking about pluralism and culture in smarter ways—preserving gains while continuing to advance the law, and training young leaders to champion the rights of racial minorities, people of different sexual orientations, and women, but with language that is inclusive and makes people feel we're assuming the best in them, not the worst.
The Global Crisis of Democracy
There's a through line between what's happening in the United States and countries around the world. Looking at the Italian election, the recent French election, far-right parties popping up in Scandinavia, and Viktor Orbán in Hungary—in all these places, if you define democracy just as elections, that's not enough. There's an infrastructure that has to be built and a set of values that have to be transmitted.
How we thought about globalization, trade, and immigration—not necessarily the actual policies but certainly how we communicated them to voters throughout some of the wealthiest countries in the world—didn't work and didn't connect. The result is the rise of strongman politics, which is dangerous and not very different from what we've seen happening through the Republican party.
Rather than just focusing on what elections can do—and Obama emphasizes you do have to vote and get people in there who believe in the basic precepts of democracy and care about working people—over the long term there are structural issues we haven't addressed that are still problems. To the extent that he can be useful on that front, that's what he cares about going forward.
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