Jon Favreau Discusses Media Response to Charlie Kirk Shooting and Social Media's Corrosive Impact

[00:00] I'm joined now by the host of Potsy

[00:01] America, John Favro. Favs, thanks for

[00:02] joining me.

[00:03] >> Always a pleasure.

[00:04] >> So, we are right now in the aftermath of

[00:06] the shooting by Charlie Kirk. As of this

[00:08] morning, they have uh found uh uh the

[00:11] suspect, the person responsible for the

[00:12] shooting. Um prior to that though, prior

[00:15] to that update, there was a slew of

[00:17] right-wing commentators, right-wing

[00:19] officials, uh Republicans who had come

[00:21] out and said stuff like this.

[00:23] >> The Democrats just killed Charlie Kirk

[00:26] today. They're desperate. They're

[00:27] losing. They want to intimidate you and

[00:29] me and everybody else. Charlie Kirk's a

[00:31] casualty of war. We're the we're we're

[00:35] in this country.

[00:35] >> When is the Democrats going to stand up

[00:38] and and apologize for the hatred and the

[00:41] lies that they have fed their base

[00:44] that's led to these actions.

[00:47] >> They are at war with us. Whether we want

[00:50] to accept it or not, they are at war

[00:52] with us. Now, as of this moment, there

[00:56] is, you know, there are some indications

[00:58] of what we know about the shooter. Um,

[01:00] has two Republican parents. Uh,

[01:03] steeped in online culture. I think like

[01:05] the one thing above all else is that

[01:07] this guy is just terminally online, as

[01:10] is the case with a lot of these shooters

[01:11] that we see. There isn't some cogent

[01:14] political ideology in in a lot of these

[01:16] cases. It's just somebody who is

[01:17] up enough to be able to do this in the

[01:19] first place, right? And yet that hasn't

[01:20] stopped, I think, a lot of what what

[01:21] we're seeing from, you know, these

[01:24] figures, which is to kind of use an

[01:26] already violent moment to to further

[01:28] inflame tensions. Uh we saw the same

[01:30] thing from Trump himself, who came came

[01:32] out uh in in a in a record a recorded

[01:35] address and basically said that we're at

[01:37] war uh uh with with leftism, right? So,

[01:41] how are you thinking about um how are

[01:43] you thinking about like what the the

[01:45] practical impacts of of that kind of uh

[01:48] that kind of rhetoric are going to be?

[01:50] >> I mean, I certainly don't think it's

[01:52] going to turn the temperature down or

[01:53] lead us to a better place in any way.

[01:55] >> I mean, you know, I think uh the Wall

[01:58] Street Journal ran that story about like

[02:00] maybe there's markings that are

[02:02] >> trans ideidology. I don't even know what

[02:03] the that is. Or uh or anti-fascist.

[02:06] And so my takeaway is that um yesterday,

[02:09] Thursday, everyone jumped to conclusions

[02:11] about the shooter's motive with very

[02:12] incomplete information. And now we have

[02:15] a little bit more information, but it's

[02:16] still incomplete. So I don't really want

[02:18] to jump to the shooters motives either.

[02:19] We're like because they caught him alive

[02:22] and he's got a family and apparently and

[02:24] I believe they said he's talked to his

[02:26] family about some of this stuff. So it

[02:27] sounds like we're going to find out.

[02:29] Yeah. But I do think like whether the

[02:31] shooter was a left-wing guy, a

[02:35] right-wing guy, someone with, and I said

[02:37] this on the pod yesterday, someone with

[02:38] complicated, weird ideological beliefs

[02:41] that could be conflicting. Um, what

[02:44] matters is that this, for all we know,

[02:46] one person pulled the trigger here. Um,

[02:49] and to Jesse Waters and Donald Trump and

[02:53] all those people that we just saw saying

[02:54] the Democrats are at war and Democrats

[02:56] hate it, we're not at war. We don't we

[02:59] want you to lose in the next election.

[03:01] >> Yeah.

[03:01] >> Um I I don't like what you say. I think

[03:05] it's uh it's insightful. I think that uh

[03:09] Donald Trump is um an authoritarian who

[03:11] is trying to consolidate power right

[03:13] now. But I think that we uh approach

[03:16] that with nonviolence opposition,

[03:19] nonviolent opposition. And I believe

[03:20] strongly in that. So I and the reason I

[03:23] just bring that up because it sounds

[03:24] kind of obvious is like I do think the

[03:26] best way to contrast with that is to

[03:30] show everyone in this country we're not

[03:32] the people looking for war. We are not

[03:35] the people we are not in in this country

[03:38] who um want violence. We don't. And if

[03:43] you want to keep making up this fantasy

[03:46] that there is this war in this country,

[03:48] that the left is hateful and wants to

[03:51] tear people down and and and ruin this

[03:53] country, like you can do that, but

[03:55] that's not what we stand for. Is there

[03:57] some concern though given like how

[03:59] bifurcated our media ecosystems are that

[04:02] >> if you're watching Fox News, if you're

[04:03] consuming, you know, like Donald Trump's

[04:06] addresses where he's saying this, Megan

[04:08] Kelly saying the same thing, Jesse

[04:10] Waters saying the same thing, these

[04:11] Republican lawmakers saying the same

[04:13] thing, uh that that still the takeaway

[04:16] for a lot of the people consuming all of

[04:18] this content is going to be the polar

[04:20] opposite of what you just said.

[04:21] >> Yes. Yeah. I have a lot of concern about

[04:23] that and I don't know what to do about

[04:24] that.

[04:24] >> Yeah. Because I mean it's it's like this

[04:26] it's it's this massive asymmetry here

[04:28] where where one side is saying that the

[04:30] other side is is advocating for

[04:32] something but the problem is that those

[04:33] people are not consuming the other

[04:34] side's views and commentary and and and

[04:37] beliefs and so it's they are they their

[04:40] takeaway is just that is is only based

[04:42] on basically how the right paints the

[04:45] left and not what the left is actually

[04:46] saying.

[04:46] >> I Yeah. And that obviously that's a this

[04:48] is a a magnified example of this, but

[04:51] like this has been our concern forever

[04:52] with the right-wing media ecosystem. I

[04:55] do think the only thing we can do is

[04:57] show up in some of those places and be

[05:00] out there publicly on whatever platforms

[05:02] we're on.

[05:03] >> Yeah.

[05:04] >> Letting people know that um what our

[05:06] values and principles are and that

[05:07] they're not violence. I wanted to throw

[05:09] to a clip of what Trump said in the

[05:12] aftermath of of being asked about uh

[05:15] about Charlie Kirk and how he's holding

[05:16] up.

[05:19] [Music]

[05:21] >> How are you holding up over the last

[05:23] three and a half years?

[05:24] >> I think very good. And by the way, right

[05:26] there you see all the trucks. They've

[05:28] just started construction of the new

[05:30] ballroom for the White House, which is

[05:32] something they've been trying to get, as

[05:33] you know, for about 150 years. And it's

[05:36] going to be a beauty. It'll be

[05:38] absolutely magnificent structure and I

[05:41] just see all the trucks we just started

[05:43] so it'll get done uh very nicely and

[05:46] it'll be one of the best anywhere in the

[05:48] world actually

[05:50] >> look we all we all grieve differently

[05:53] >> you know um

[05:56] Obama in the aftermath of the Sandy Hook

[05:59] shooting I think o Obama had a reaction

[06:02] that I think uh spoke to the vast

[06:04] majority of this country virtually all

[06:06] of the country and then you have this

[06:08] reaction uh from Trump in the aftermath

[06:10] of of Charlie Kirk shooting. I'm just

[06:12] curious, you know, having written for

[06:14] for Obama, how like

[06:17] I can't even ask you to get into Trump's

[06:19] head because that is a it like the the

[06:23] level of sociopathy and and malignant

[06:25] narcissism that you have to be capable

[06:27] of displaying to be asked about somebody

[06:29] who you purportedly care a lot about and

[06:31] to respond with how great the

[06:32] construction of your ballroom is going

[06:34] is is like, you know, next level. But

[06:37] just curious, you know, having having

[06:39] worked with Obama, hearing that response

[06:42] to to a a horrific, tragic uh uh

[06:46] shooting like like the one we saw in

[06:47] Sandy Hook to today, you know, a decade

[06:50] and a half later, Trump's response. I'm

[06:52] just just your general reaction.

[06:54] >> I know everyone thinks that everything

[06:56] in politics is like planned for public

[06:59] consumption and um just on the Obama

[07:02] thing, obviously the nation saw him uh

[07:05] tear up. Yeah.

[07:06] >> But um when I when it first happened and

[07:11] um I brought him the initial statement

[07:14] that he did, not the speech at the at

[07:16] the eulogy, but I quickly rushed out a

[07:18] statement and I brought it up. I I sent

[07:19] it up to him and then he called me up to

[07:21] the oval so he could give me his edits

[07:22] and it was the first time I saw him. It

[07:24] was just me and him. And when he um

[07:27] handed me the edits, like he couldn't

[07:28] even look up from the desk uh because he

[07:32] was, you know, it was very emotional.

[07:36] And so when that showed in public,

[07:38] that's just who he is, you know. And

[07:40] sometimes you don't control the things

[07:42] that the public sees uh when you're a

[07:44] politician, as much as either you might

[07:46] like or your adviserss might like or

[07:48] whatever, that's just something that

[07:49] happens. I say this because for for

[07:50] Trump, Trump could have had a a very

[07:53] close relationship with Charlie Kirk and

[07:55] cared about him very much. Um, it could

[07:57] be that Trump Trump doesn't really have

[08:00] that Trump is sociopathic and you know,

[08:02] plenty of evidence of that. And um, it

[08:05] also could be I was thinking that like

[08:07] he knows you're never ever supposed to

[08:09] show any kind of weakness or

[08:11] vulnerability or emotion because

[08:13] everything is about strength with him.

[08:15] And so maybe he was like, I'm just going

[08:16] to start talking about that. Or maybe he

[08:18] just was really cared about that because

[08:20] his brain bounces around as fast as the

[08:22] social media feeds that are all

[08:24] uh that are ruining our lives.

[08:26] >> So, exactly. It's hard to get in his

[08:28] head. Yeah.

[08:28] >> Couple options I gave you for what what

[08:31] it could be.

[08:31] >> So, I I wanted to talk to you especially

[08:33] because you know you you host uh you

[08:35] host a show offline um that I think is

[08:37] really important especially in moments

[08:39] like this and a big part of of the

[08:42] shooting that we saw has been social

[08:44] media's reaction to it. Um I I I took

[08:48] all day Wednesday and all day Thursday

[08:51] and didn't post anything because I I

[08:53] felt like I had reached the breaking

[08:54] point in the broader discourse. Um, and

[08:58] you know, like I have to also kind of to

[09:00] a degree take care of my mental health

[09:03] and and not kind of uh get consumed by a

[09:06] really a really uh I don't know uh

[09:12] just generally disgusting and and uh and

[09:15] and hostile and acrimonious news cycle.

[09:18] Um, I I want to uh I want to put on the

[09:20] screen here uh the Utah Governor Spencer

[09:24] Cox offering a few words and then talk

[09:26] to you about uh kind of a little bit of

[09:28] what you've you've um spoken about on

[09:30] offline. We are not wired as human

[09:32] beings

[09:34] biologically

[09:36] uh historically we have not evolved uh

[09:41] in a way that um we are capable of

[09:45] processing those types of violent

[09:47] imagery. And by the way, we've seen

[09:49] another one with a gruesome stabbing

[09:50] very recently that went viral. Um this

[09:53] is not good for us. It is not good to

[09:55] consume. Um, social media is a cancer on

[09:58] our society right now and I would

[10:00] encourage again I would encourage people

[10:02] to log off, turn off, touch grass, hug a

[10:05] family member, go out and do good in

[10:06] your community. So um, so I'm joined by

[10:09] social media is John Favro.

[10:12] >> It's um,

[10:12] >> how are you thinking about this? Because

[10:14] you are as as online as anybody can be.

[10:17] Um, but you also host a show called

[10:19] Offline about the virtues of doing

[10:21] exactly what the Utah governor said,

[10:22] which is to to take time um, you know,

[10:25] to touch grass and and and actually

[10:27] surround yourself with regular human

[10:29] beings. And I remember about a year ago,

[10:30] I had asked you um, maybe maybe even

[10:33] longer than that. I had asked you if any

[10:35] if anything that you'd heard while doing

[10:39] offline, if any guest you'd spoken to

[10:40] while doing offline, if if there was any

[10:42] evidence to point to the fact that that

[10:45] um that it was beneficial to your

[10:48] health, to your health, um or whatever

[10:50] it may be that there was any virtue to

[10:52] being to to being online even more. And

[10:54] the answer was no. like nobody that

[10:56] you'd spoken with said that being on the

[10:59] more that you're on like that there is

[11:00] in any way uh uh a positive relationship

[11:04] between being online and like having any

[11:07] semblance of mental health. Um, but I'm

[11:09] curious in in given the response that

[11:11] we've seen from from this shooting,

[11:13] which is for a lot of people to just

[11:15] kind of uh devolve further into their

[11:17] into their corners and uh and and use it

[11:20] basically to to um uh to defend their

[11:24] their, you know, their prior beliefs or

[11:26] or or whatever it may be. How how you're

[11:29] thinking about uh you know, just the

[11:30] broader state of social media.

[11:33] >> Social media is a cancer. Uh Governor

[11:35] Cox is correct. It it uh promises the um

[11:40] ill it promises connection. It gives you

[11:43] the illusion of connection.

[11:46] Um you are not really connecting with

[11:48] human beings the way that you connect

[11:49] with human beings in real life. But it

[11:51] is hard to see that which is why people

[11:53] keep going back to it. So it is also the

[11:55] temptation of connection for example and

[11:57] I think part of this is the way that the

[11:59] media in environment has broken down. I

[12:02] mean I was in a family where if there

[12:05] were big events something happened in

[12:06] the country like there was some almost

[12:10] solace in gathering around the

[12:12] television together and knowing that the

[12:14] whole country was watching whether it's

[12:17] an election whether it was a tragedy

[12:19] whether it was whatever it may be that

[12:21] the whole country was watching that too

[12:22] and you sort of felt this connection

[12:24] there and I think that's an important

[12:27] sort of human need and human impulse and

[12:31] I think I mean for me I am still on

[12:35] social media despite hosting the show

[12:37] and everyone you know I know a lot of

[12:38] our subscribers are like oh his brain's

[12:40] broken what does he do he's he's like a

[12:41] hypocrite he talks about it and he

[12:42] doesn't get off but it's like I first of

[12:44] all I am fallible I'm just I am as um uh

[12:48] vulnerable to these temptations as

[12:49] anyone else I also do it for my job but

[12:51] I do think in like I've been online the

[12:54] last couple days and I've been you know

[12:56] not posting too much but I've been

[12:58] online and the reason is this was a sort

[13:02] of a scary thing that happened, a

[13:04] tragedy and I wanted to be I wanted to

[13:08] see what other people were saying and I

[13:10] wanted to be around other people who

[13:11] were also dealing with it. So that's why

[13:14] people go on. The challenge is the

[13:17] algorithms will show you first of all

[13:20] it's a self- selecting population,

[13:21] right? So the people who are on social

[13:22] media are already more partisan and more

[13:25] ideological than the rest of the

[13:27] country,

[13:28] >> right? And then once you're on, it's not

[13:31] like you're all just in a room talking

[13:32] to each other. It's that the algorithm

[13:34] is showing you the most extreme uh views

[13:38] on either side. And it's also showing

[13:41] you like uh Governor Cox was saying,

[13:44] violence, incredible violence, like the

[13:46] video of Charlie Kirk. And to the point

[13:48] where it desensitizes you to violence,

[13:51] it also dehumanizes people. If you are

[13:53] yelling at someone online, if you are

[13:55] arguing with someone online and you are

[13:57] not seeing their face, you don't know

[13:58] who they are, you're not sitting across

[13:59] the table from them like you and I are

[14:01] right now, then it is easier to not see

[14:04] them as a full person and a full human

[14:06] being. And I think whether it's whether

[14:09] this is the case for this killer or

[14:11] plenty of other uh troubled killers,

[14:14] sorry, plenty of other troubled young

[14:16] people who either go on to be mass

[14:18] shooters or just go on to have all kinds

[14:19] of mental health challenges. If you're

[14:20] home all day and your community and you

[14:23] think you have friends, but your

[14:24] community is people who you do not see

[14:26] in person and who are only online in

[14:30] terms of, you know, their media accounts

[14:32] and you're interacting with them that

[14:34] way. If that's all, you are not going to

[14:36] have an accurate portrayal of what

[14:39] humanity is, the good that can come from

[14:42] humanity and not just the bad. And

[14:45] that's going to I think it it it hurts

[14:48] our souls. I really do. I I think and I

[14:51] so I it's tough because I do think that

[14:53] we need places to meet people and

[14:56] interact with people that we may not

[14:58] meet in person, you know, and I do think

[15:00] we need places to find good information,

[15:02] especially information that's that's

[15:04] breaking quickly, right? I mean, for us,

[15:06] we do this for a job,

[15:07] >> but the commentary, the fights, all that

[15:10] kind of it's just um it's it's a

[15:14] cancer.

[15:15] >> Yeah. I mean, I I I was looking at all

[15:16] of this stuff and I was seeing the way

[15:18] that things were going very quickly and

[15:20] just kind of like stepped back and I was

[15:22] like there there it kind of just feels

[15:24] like we're through the looking glass,

[15:26] you know, like it feels like like this

[15:28] is like

[15:29] >> I don't know because because it can

[15:31] always it can always get worse,

[15:33] >> but like watching the ways in which all

[15:36] of the commentary was just it was so

[15:39] hostile, so acrimonious and um and I

[15:43] just I I I don't know how you come back

[15:45] from a point where where there is no

[15:47] humanity left in in any of this. And so

[15:49] other than just stepping away, which of

[15:51] course if you have like some nuanced if

[15:53] you have some nuanced perspective on

[15:55] this, you know, I think I think the way

[15:58] like all of the incentive all of the

[16:00] incentives for posting online are are

[16:03] completely antithetical to that. But but

[16:05] um really the only stuff that's going to

[16:07] bubble to the top is the you know is the

[16:10] most uh the most hostile takes and the

[16:13] most partisan takes. And so I like isn't

[16:16] there some concern that like that you

[16:18] don't like how do you come back from

[16:19] this in a world where where anybody with

[16:22] nu like a nuance take is going to be

[16:24] either so disgusted with what's going on

[16:26] that they're not going to want to you

[16:27] know weigh in or that even if they do

[16:29] weigh in it's not going to bubble up in

[16:31] the algorithm because that's not what

[16:32] works online. And so this is like now

[16:36] the new normal which is like if if you 5

[16:39] years ago if you looked at a response to

[16:41] a shooting if you looked today you'd be

[16:43] like holy I mean this is just it's a

[16:45] deeply broken it's a deeply broken

[16:48] society. Um and so like I guess my worry

[16:51] here is that is that this is the best

[16:54] it's going to be like it like it can

[16:56] only devolve even further from from here

[16:58] because it's not like the incentives are

[17:00] going to be any better. It's not like

[17:01] Elon Musk is going to suddenly say like,

[17:03] "Hey, let's uh let's start rewarding

[17:05] nuance and let's start like, you know,

[17:07] burying uh burying the most hostile

[17:09] takes that you can get."

[17:11] >> I do think that a backlash to social

[17:14] media has been brewing now, like a real

[17:16] one, not just, you know, people who come

[17:18] on offline and talk about it. Um, you

[17:20] can see it in the polls. You can see it

[17:22] in polls of people who support uh

[17:25] banning phones in schools. Yeah. And

[17:27] including a majority of young people, by

[17:30] the way. Is that true? Young people

[17:32] young people are in favor of of like for

[17:34] themselves.

[17:35] >> It's obviously Yeah, it's obviously

[17:36] closer. In fact, when you actually talk

[17:38] to young people, they've done a few

[17:39] studies of this.

[17:40] >> Even the ones who think that they want

[17:42] to keep the phones, they say, "Oh, if

[17:44] everyone else gave up the phone, I'd be

[17:46] great. I don't want it, but I just want

[17:48] it because I I can't not have

[17:50] unilaterally disarm,

[17:50] >> right?" Which I I understand that that

[17:53] point of view for sure. Um,

[17:55] >> and so people people don't want this. I

[17:57] think that in I was just saying this to

[17:59] on a on a group chat much better than on

[18:01] social media. Um a candidate who runs in

[18:05] 2028 against social media and against

[18:08] the phones. Um and I'm saying phone

[18:10] rest. I'm not saying ban the phones

[18:12] completely like some people think I do.

[18:13] Uh but a a a candidate who runs on that.

[18:17] >> Too late. It's too late.

[18:18] >> It's too late. the sound's going to

[18:19] >> a candidate who runs on that I think

[18:21] would do really well because I also

[18:23] think it's an issue that um you have

[18:25] some people maybe on the in the center

[18:26] center right who also feel the same way

[18:29] about that people don't want this and I

[18:31] think even campaigning in politics I

[18:33] mean

[18:34] >> Zoran Mandani and his uh social media

[18:36] strategy is very interesting right which

[18:38] is instead of uh direct to camera stuff

[18:41] that he's doing so it's just like a

[18:42] relationship with the voter

[18:44] >> he's doing grassroots in-person

[18:47] organizing and meeting people and then

[18:49] broadcasting that to people, which is

[18:51] different, right? Because that it I

[18:52] think campaigns are going to return to

[18:54] to the point that they can. Uh if we're

[18:56] going to get out of this, well, it'll be

[18:58] in person and and and not necessarily

[19:00] just like knocking on strangers doors,

[19:02] but holding meetings of like-minded

[19:05] people and talking about politics. Like,

[19:07] I just think we have to mediate some of

[19:10] our conversations in person. And I say

[19:12] that knowing that I will go back online

[19:14] and have fights because that is what we

[19:16] have right now. But I know that I am

[19:18] always looking for ways to meet in

[19:21] person and have debates about politics

[19:24] that way.

[19:24] >> You know, right when I was graduating

[19:26] from college, when I was graduating from

[19:27] Lehi, I remember I remember so like

[19:30] smartphones were just coming out. This

[19:32] was in 2011. I think I had like one one

[19:34] of my buddies was the first one to get

[19:36] like an Android. Uh I I had a flip phone

[19:38] in college. Like it feels it feels so

[19:41] prehistoric now, but like I had flip

[19:43] phone in college and I remember being so

[19:46] jealous. I remember like on on

[19:48] graduation day watching, you know, I was

[19:50] there and I I saw I saw like you some of

[19:52] the um uh you know people getting ready

[19:55] to leave and and some of the you know

[19:57] siblings of of graduates coming and

[19:59] they're like I'm going to I'm going to

[20:00] be here and I was like man I'm so

[20:01] jealous because these kids are going to

[20:02] have such a different college career

[20:03] because they're so much more connected

[20:05] than we were and they'll have the

[20:06] internet and they'll be they'll have

[20:07] like Instagram and social media and they

[20:08] can they can talk to each other and like

[20:10] we missed out on all of that and and for

[20:14] years that that was how I thought about

[20:15] This was I was so jealous because these

[20:17] kids are going to be so much more so

[20:19] much better connected to the world and

[20:21] to even people like on our own campus.

[20:23] And recently I started thinking what

[20:25] what a blessing it was that

[20:28] everything we did,

[20:30] >> not just the stupid that I did in

[20:31] my frat house, but like just that

[20:33] everything that we did was not broadcast

[20:35] to the entire world and that we got to

[20:36] have like real like intimate experiences

[20:39] with other human beings without feeling

[20:41] like you're performing for the whole

[20:42] world. And uh and and nobody will ever

[20:45] have that again.

[20:46] >> I know. I always think I didn't

[20:47] >> I mean it's it's like a little bit like

[20:49] you know when we were growing up and

[20:51] like the way you found people in your

[20:52] neighborhood in the '90s was like look

[20:54] for the bikes, right? Like look for

[20:55] people's bikes in their front yards.

[20:56] >> It's that and also I was thinking about

[20:58] this in college cuz I I had a flip phone

[21:00] like maybe the last year in college.

[21:01] which I didn't even cuz I'm you know I'm

[21:03] old and um but you'd go out at night

[21:07] you'd go to parties everyone after all

[21:10] your friends at the party after the

[21:11] party would scatter in different

[21:12] directions and then every every morning

[21:16] Saturday or Sunday morning we'd meet in

[21:18] the dining hall and everyone would share

[21:20] their stories.

[21:20] >> Yeah. And because you weren't texting

[21:22] each other, you weren't posting it. And

[21:24] so there's like a table of all your

[21:26] close friends and and it was the best

[21:28] time because it was like, let's talk

[21:30] about last night, let's talk about what

[21:31] happened, where'd you go, where'd you

[21:32] end up, how' this happen, what's going

[21:34] on tonight. And it was just like a place

[21:36] where you could have a real conversation

[21:38] with people. And I do I like I feel so

[21:41] sorry for kids today that they don't get

[21:42] to have that. And when I talked to uh

[21:45] Vic Murthy, the surgeon general, he he

[21:47] talks about how he or Biden's surgeon

[21:49] general and Obama's as well, he talked

[21:51] about how he go into schools and sit for

[21:53] lunch with kids at schools and they

[21:55] would all just be down looking down on

[21:57] their phones the whole time.

[21:58] >> Yeah. Well, look, I I think uh you know,

[22:00] it's a little weird for for like two

[22:02] people who work online and whose

[22:04] livelihood comes from from being online

[22:05] to talk about like the virtues of not

[22:07] being online, but I hope that like you

[22:09] know, the last the events of the last

[22:10] few days can at least uh you know, offer

[22:12] offer folks who are watching a little

[22:14] bit of of a push to put down the phones,

[22:18] stop stop watching folks, including us,

[22:22] and uh and just, you know, spend some

[22:23] time uh you know, reconnecting with with

[22:25] people in the world here. So, uh, Favs,

[22:28] as always, I appreciate the time. Uh,

[22:29] thanks so much.

[22:30] >> Thanks for having me.