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Brian Entin Provides Inside Look at Tyler Robinson Hearing After Charlie Kirk Shooting at Utah Valley University
Brian Entin covers the pretrial hearing for Tyler Robinson, accused of shooting Charlie Kirk at Utah Valley University. The hearing took unexpected turns as the defense argued for camera removal due to lip-reading concerns and pushed to disqualify the prosecution team because one prosecutor's adult child attended the Charlie Kirk event and was roughly 80 feet from the shooting. Defense attorney Clayton Simms weighs in on whether the prosecution faces a genuine conflict of interest that could derail the case.
Courthouse Drama in Provo
The pretrial hearing for Tyler Robinson, the man accused of shooting Charlie Kirk at a Utah Valley University event, unfolded with several unexpected developments at the Provo courthouse. The hearing, which was largely live-streamed, ran much longer than anticipated and didn't complete all scheduled proceedings. The case will resume on February 3rd to finish the matters left unresolved.
Robinson faces serious charges related to the shooting incident at the Charlie Kirk event held at Utah Valley University in Utah. The courtroom proceedings revealed growing tensions between defense attorneys, prosecutors, and the media over access and transparency issues.
Lip Reading Concerns Emerge
One of the more unusual arguments presented during the hearing centered on lip reading. The defense team raised concerns that the live-stream cameras captured close-up footage of Tyler Robinson at various points during the hearing. They argued that lip readers watching the stream could potentially determine what Robinson was saying to his defense attorneys at the defense table, thus breaching attorney-client privilege.
After reviewing the video footage during a break, the judge agreed with the defense's concerns to a degree. However, rather than removing cameras entirely from the courtroom, the judge ruled that for the remainder of that day's hearing, the video feed would not show Tyler Robinson. The live stream continued but only displayed the attorneys at the podium and the judge at the bench.
This represents an uncommon objection in courtroom proceedings. Many high-profile trials feature cameras that capture defendants sitting at the defense table throughout hearings. The reporter covering the case noted that a stationary camera with a wide shot of the courtroom, similar to what was used in the Bryan Kohberger case, might resolve such concerns while still maintaining transparency.
Motion to Disqualify Prosecution Team
The more substantial issue addressed during the hearing was the defense's motion to remove the entire prosecution team from the case. The defense argues that the prosecutors face a conflict of interest because one prosecutor's adult child attended the Charlie Kirk event where the shooting occurred and was positioned approximately 80 feet away from the incident.
According to testimony, this individual turned their head right before Charlie Kirk was shot and didn't actually witness the shooting itself, though they heard the gunshots. The prosecution maintains that this doesn't create bias and that they were the ones who voluntarily disclosed this information to the defense. They argue that the prosecutor's child didn't have an intense emotional response to the events and that the situation won't impact their ability to fairly prosecute the case.
The defense strongly disagrees, arguing that not only should the individual prosecutor be removed, but the entire prosecution team should be disqualified because of their close working relationships. They pointed to text messages exchanged among prosecutors and law enforcement immediately following the event, which showed concern because the prosecutor's child was present at the scene.
The hearing was set to include witness testimony on this specific issue, including testimony from the prosecutor's adult child. However, this portion of the proceedings was delayed until February.
Battle Over Camera Access
Another contentious issue emerged around whether cameras should remain in the courtroom when the prosecutor's child takes the stand. The prosecution requested that cameras be removed for this portion of the hearing to protect the identity and privacy of the prosecutor's child. The defense agreed with this request, as did an attorney representing media interests, which surprised the reporter covering the case.
Despite all parties advocating for camera removal, the judge ruled independently that cameras could remain for the time being. The judge emphasized Utah's open court policy and the presumption that court proceedings are public record. It remains unclear what will happen when the prosecutor's child actually testifies in February—whether cameras will be prohibited at that point or perhaps restricted from focusing on the witness.
The reporter noted that the prosecutor's passionate appeals to the judge to protect his child's identity seemed to undercut the prosecution's argument that the situation is insignificant and doesn't represent a bias issue.
Expert Analysis
Clayton Simms, a defense attorney from Utah familiar with the case and the local legal community, provided analysis of the hearing's developments. Regarding the lip-reading concerns, Simms explained that the defense worries about a breach in attorney-client privilege that could make Robinson uncomfortable communicating with his attorneys. However, Simms also noted that lip reading is theoretically possible for anyone physically present in the courtroom gallery as well.
Simms suggested the defense might be making these motions to preserve issues for appeal, potentially setting up grounds to challenge any conviction down the road. He proposed that a stationary camera focused only on the podium, judge, and court reporter could resolve the privacy concerns while maintaining transparency.
On the more significant issue of prosecutorial conflict, Simms expressed the opinion that there is a genuine problem. He noted that the prosecutor was first introduced to the case through the mechanism of his colleague's college-aged child experiencing the event firsthand, with concerns about safety and danger. This creates a problematic first impression of the case that the prosecution is now trying to minimize.
Simms argued that standard protocol would be to hand the case to an independent agency, similar to how a judge facing a conflict motion wouldn't rule on their own recusal but would send it to a presiding judge. He expressed concern that if the Utah County prosecutors are allowed to proceed and secure a conviction, the conflict issue could become grounds for reversal years later on appeal.
Simms also noted an interesting dynamic: if the prosecutor's child testifies that they experienced no trauma, sought no therapy, and moved on from the incident, that person could actually become a favorable witness for the defense during the mitigation phase of a potential death penalty case. The prosecution would need to demonstrate significant harm to justify the death penalty, and a witness saying they weren't deeply affected could undermine that argument.
What Happens Next
The hearing will resume on February 3rd to complete the unfinished proceedings, including the testimony from the prosecutor's child and further arguments on whether the prosecution team should be disqualified. If the judge decides to remove the prosecutors, it would represent a significant development requiring the case to potentially start over with an entirely new prosecution team, possibly from another county.
Security remains extremely tight when Tyler Robinson enters or leaves the courthouse, with a massive presence including numerous security guards, police, SWAT team members, a drone in the air, aerial surveillance by plane, and transport via Humvee.
The case continues to generate significant public interest, with concerns about transparency and trust in the legal process making public access to hearings particularly important.
Video Transcript
Hey guys, thanks so much for checking
out my show. I really, really appreciate
it. Uh please click to subscribe. I
appreciate all your support. Uh I am in
Utah right now. I'm in Provo, Utah. I
was in this courthouse all day today. Uh
the hearing just just wrapped up now.
The hearing for um Tyler Robinson. He is
the man accused of killing Charlie Kirk,
shooting Charlie Kirk uh at the um the
Charlie Kirk event at Utah Valley
University here uh in Utah. Uh and the
hearing took some kind of wild twists
and turns, went much longer than
expected. Actually, they didn't even
finish everything that they were
expected to do today. There were again a
ton of concerns about the uh media being
in the courtroom and the camera being in
the courtroom. The most of the hearing
was was live streamed. Uh and there were
concerns from the defense again trying
to get the camera thrown out of the
courtroom. This time they claimed that
the camera uh showed Tyler Robinson at
several points during the hearing and
that someone watching the live stream
lip readers. That's what they said.
There were lip reading concerns. Lip
readers watching the live stream would
be able to see what Tyler Robinson was
saying to his defense attorneys uh at
the defense table. Um, that is a concern
that I haven't really seen come up
before in a lot of the trials that I've
covered. And a lot of the trials I've
covered, they have allowed cameras. Uh,
and you see the defendant sitting at the
table for much of the hearing. So, um,
that was kind of a new one to me. But
basically what happened is there was a
break and then when we came back, the
defense said, "We needed to talk to you,
judge." Uh, we went back and looked at
the feed. And there are several parts
where we could see um Tyler Robinson up
close and we believe that lip readers
could tell what he was talking to his
attorneys about. Uh and the judge
actually reviewed the video and then
agreed uh and decided that he wasn't
going to throw the camera out, but
instead for the rest of the hearing
today uh they were not going to show
Tyler Robinson on video. So you'll see
on the live feed for the second part of
the hearing, you just saw the attorneys
at the podium and you saw the judge at
the bench and you couldn't see Tyler
Robinson. So I don't know if that is
going to be the rule moving forward. Um
but the whole lip reading argument that
was a kind of a strange twist part of
today. My solution personally would just
be again having covered a lot of these
hearings get away from the intersection
here. Um, my solution would just be have
a have a stationary camera inside the
courtroom like we saw with Brian
Coberger, like we've seen with other
trials that I've covered where the
camera doesn't move around uh, and you
can't really see that up close. You
still see the defendant, but you can't
see the defendant so up close that you
would be able to read their lips. So,
we'll see what the judge decides on
that. The other big issue today was um
the defense trying to get the
prosecution
um pulled off the case, thrown off the
case. That's the courthouse, by the way,
behind me. The hearing was up on the
fourth floor. Uh the defense is claiming
that because one of the prosecutor's
kids was at the Charlie Kirk event, was
about 80 feet away and was technically a
witness, that the prosecution team is
biased uh and that they cannot fairly
prosecute the case. And they believe
that not only that one prosecutor should
be pulled off the case, but that the
entire team should be pulled off because
they're all very very close. And there
were text messages that were exchanged
right after the event and concern just
among the prosecutors and law
enforcement community because this one
prosecutor's child was at the event. And
when I say child, it was uh an adult
child. Uh the the prosecution came back
and said, "No, they're not biased. Uh
that they are the ones who disclosed
this and that that person that the
prosecutor's child didn't have an
intense emotional response to what
happened. Uh they claimed that the child
actually turned their head right before
Charlie Kirk was shot and couldn't
didn't actually see the shooting, only
heard the shots and that it would not
impact the case. Um the defense again
100% disagrees. So that's what the
hearing was mostly about today. And then
they were going to start taking uh doing
witnesses testimony about this specific
issue, including the prosecutor's child
is going to take the stand. There was a
big debate about whether the camera
would be allowed to stay during that
portion of the hearing. The prosecution
wanted the camera booted out of the
courtroom uh because they didn't want
the name or the face, the identity of
the prosecutor's child being public. Um
so they said we shouldn't have cameras
for this portion of the hearing.
Remember, we got booted out of the last
hearing. So I was like, "Oh my gosh,
we're going to get booted out of the
courtroom again." Which is just
annoying. I mean, look, I get that there
are certain parts of of these hearings
that have to be closed to the public,
but I am I'm probably biased on this
because I am a reporter and I just I I
on the side of things should be made
public in courtrooms and um especially
with this case with all the different
theories going around with with people
just not trusting the process. I think
it's important that as much of it as
possible remains public. But anyway,
prosecution wanted the cameras booted
out. I was like, "Oh my gosh, we're
going to get booted out." The defense
agreed and said, "We have no problem
with the proc with the uh cameras being
booted out." Then there's this attorney
representing the media who came on and
said that they didn't have a problem
with the with the cameras being booted
out, which I was kind of like, I don't
know that like News Nation is signed on
with this attorney. I have no idea. But
I was kind of like silent scream in my
seat in the courtroom like no media
attorney like you should be fighting for
us. Like we don't want to be booted out.
for whatever reason, he just agreed that
we should get booted out. So, I was
like, "Oh my gosh, we're going to get
booted out again and this is going to be
another secret hearing and it's just
frustrating." But then the judge
actually disagreed with all of them and
decided that the cameras could stay for
now. Uh, so the camera is is going to be
there for now. I don't know what's going
to happen when when the actual because
they didn't finish today. It's going to
finish in February. I don't know what's
going to happen. I think it's February
3rd when they're going to finish this.
But when the act when the prosecutor's
child actually takes the stands, and
again, I say child, it's an adult child,
I don't know if they're going to boot
the cameras out or just maybe the camera
can't focus on that person. I don't
know. Um, but the but the judge, at
least for today, ended up just siding
with himself, going against the what the
defense wanted, against what the
prosecution wanted, against what the
media lawyer wanted, and deciding that
the camera could say. So, that was kind
of a win for for the media. So, um, they
didn't really get much done, honestly,
today. Uh, but it's the reason I came
all the way out here to Utah is because
it's significant. I mean, this is a
significant argument. And if the
prosecution team does get thrown off the
case, that's a really big deal. I mean,
they're going to have to start over um
with a whole new team, maybe from
another county, I don't even know how it
would work. Would they move the case to
a different county? Um, so it it's a big
deal. Uh, and I'm gonna have to come
back um in February to uh to see how it
all sort of wraps up. I'm joined now by
Clayton Sims, a renowned defense
attorney from Utah who who knows the
area, who knows the case really well.
Uh, first of all, Clayton, I mean, it
was there were a lot of twists and turns
in this hearing. this whole lip reading
drama kind of came out of nowhere uh
with the defense trying to get the
camera thrown out saying that there were
clips that went out where there are lip
readers who can see what Tyler Robinson
is saying to his attorneys. What did you
make of that?
>> Right. So, their concern is that there's
a breach in attorney client privilege
that if someone is reading his lips,
maybe he won't feel comfortable
expressing himself or talking to his
defense council. Uh so he he couldn't
they can't be effective unless he can
communicate with them. Uh so I think the
concern is that the notes on the table
or statements that he makes um wouldn't
be privileged. Are they just grasping at
straws though because they're not
showing the notes on the tables. I've
covered a lot of trials where you know
you see the defendant during the trial.
That's not unusual to see him sitting
there and then see them lean over and
whisper in their attorney's ear and they
have like a little back and forth and we
see that all the time. Why is this such
an issue now?
>> Yeah. I don't I don't know what was said
or what they were worried about him
saying. Um but you could also do lipre
in real life. You could go there as a
participant in in the gallery and and
and look at the defendant and see what
what he's doing. I think the concern uh
for them uh is is just maybe his comfort
level that he he would not want to talk
to them if he thinks that someone's
going to film him and then translate
what he's saying through a lip reader.
>> Do you think the defense just wants the
cameras thrown out because they seem
every hearing now to have some complaint
about the cameras?
Yeah, I don't know if they're just
trying to set the judge judge up for a
potential error. That sometimes you make
a motion
making the judge make a decision yes or
no. And you're simply setting the case
up for an appeal. Certainly, if he's
convicted, there will be an appeal. Uh
in death penalty cases, there's lengthy
appeals. So, you're you're just pushing
the judge to make a decision, and
hopefully your position is down the road
that it gets reversed. In some of the
cases I've covered where there's
cameras, they'll have a stationary
camera with just a wide shot of the
courtroom. It is kind of interesting to
me that here they're allowed to pan
around, zoom in. Um, I've seen it
before, but like with most of the trials
I've covered lately, it's just a
stationary camera, which seems to kind
of solve that issue,
>> right? The judge could order the camera
just to be focused on the podium, on the
judge, on the court reporter, and not
pan over to the defense table. That
could resolve the problem. And then ask
the prosecutor and the defense attorneys
to come to the podium when speaking. So,
you don't need to uh photograph the
defendant. You could do still
photographs or it could be a
combination. You could take still
photographs in which lip reading
wouldn't necessarily be possible. So,
you could do some hybrid. And of course
during the trial um no jurors would be
exposed. The the cameras would not pan
on the jury members.
>> Have you ever had lipreading concerns
with any of your cases or is this
something new to you? I mean, I have had
cases in which a criminal defendant is
trying to say something to a witness,
you know, in a domestic violence
situation, pass a message on something
like that, but I haven't had a
professional lip reader read um
something that was that was filmed. No.
>> Yeah. I I haven't heard of it coming up
like this either. The other big argument
obviously and the reason that we were in
court today is the defense uh trying to
make the case that the prosecutor should
be thrown off the case because the one
prosecutor's adult child was at the
Charlie Kirk event was about 80 feet
away. Apparently looked away right
before Charlie Kirk got shot but still
heard heard the shots was you know was a
witness was there. Um and the
prosecution has has made the argument
that no they're not biased that that
person wasn't even going to be a
witness. uh they're they haven't
finished the testimony. They have to
finish now in February. And we're
actually going to hear from the uh the
prosecutor's child is apparently going
to take the stand. But based on what
you've heard so far, which which side
are you sort of leaning towards?
>> I think there is a problem. I think the
judge should recuse uh the prosecutor uh
their office. Uh the problem is is that
the prosecutor is trying to minimize it.
Jeffrey Gray took the stand and
testified. Oh, it it wasn't didn't have
that much of an impact. But that's how
he was introduced to the case. He was
introduced to the case through this
mechanism of someone's college-aged kid
experiencing it firsthand. And are they
safe? Are they still in danger? What is
happening? Sort of incomplete
information. They're having he's having
lunch with his colleague. So he his
first impressions of this case is, "Wow,
is your child safe? Um are they in
danger? what did they experience? Uh, so
I think that there there's a
minimization of this. Um, but I think it
had a a huge impact.
>> So you're saying the prosecutor's first
time hearing about the cases because all
the prosecutors were messaging each
other to make sure the one child was
okay.
>> Learned about the case through that
experience through the child this
student at Utah Valley University. Um,
now they're trying to say later that the
child hasn't been traumatized, is not
seeking therapy, uh, never saw Tyler
Robinson with a gun. But that's the type
of witness that you would maybe call in
the mitigation part of the death penalty
case. And certainly you could call that
witness and say, "Well, did you see
Tyler Robinson with a gun?" No. Now that
person becomes a favorable witness for
the defense.
>> What do you mean by that? How does he
become a favor or how does he or she
become a favorable witness for the
defense?
>> Yes, that person could be favorable
because they're saying that there's no
trauma that they've moved on from this.
They're not scarred and harmed by this.
So, the prosecution at the punishment
phase to if there is a conviction to
establish u and and impose the death
penalty, you need to show harm. You need
to show how significant this uh shooting
was. And if this college student says,
"Hey, not a big deal. Um, no therapy. I
thought about it at the time, but I'm
completely fine. That person could be
called as a mitigation witness by the
defense. Are you surprised? I mean, you
know the players involved. You know the
county. Are you surprised that the
prosecutors just apparently didn't think
this was a big deal? That they didn't go
to the attorney general, that they
didn't try to sort this out before the
defense sort of brought it up into this
situation that it is now.
They're using common practices that are
getting exposed. So if you file a motion
to recuse the judge, the judge doesn't
hear that conflict. The judge sends it
to the presiding judge, a different
judge to make a determination whether
the judge has a conflict or not. So this
is standard protocol to hand it over to
someone else. That that would happen if
someone said the judge needed to be
conflicted off. it should happen in the
case of the prosecutors. Again, the
prosecutors are the one that brought
this information out. They thought it
was significant enough to tell the
defense about it. It was significant
enough that they disclosed and that
disclosure needs to be combined with
let's have another agency that's
independent look at it. Again, this is a
problem. If if um the Utah County
Attorney is allowed to proceed
years from now, it could be overturned
and be Oh, you know what? That original
day one, that problem that we talked
about, yeah, that's a problem. We're
overturning the conviction. You have to
start over from that point.
>> So, you know, I mean, this is a
relatively new judge. Again, you know,
the players. What do you think in terms
of what the judge is going to do? How do
you think this is going to end? Well,
he's a career uh prosecutor that became
a judge. So, he may h hold the
prosecutor to a higher standard and he
may say, "Look, I don't want problems
with this case. I don't want
difficulties on appeal. I'm going to do
things the right way and I'm going to
have caution." Um, and so he's going to,
of course, look at the case law that was
presented to him, the the cases that
were cited. Um, and I anticipate
additional motions even being filed
between now and February 3rd.
>> And just one last thing I want to ask
you about that I thought was
interesting. Um, the prosecution wanted
the cameras out of the courtroom for
this part of the hearing because the
prosecutor didn't want uh his child to
be the name or the visual to be out
there for the world to see. Um, when
they started to discuss this, the
defense agreed. To my surprise, the
media attorney agreed, which I was
thinking like, no, stop. like the media
attorney defend us like we don't want
the cameras turned off but I don't know
why he agreed too. Um and then the judge
went against all of them and decided
that the cameras could stay. What did
you make of that moment?
>> Right. So the judge is independent. The
there's recommendations. There's
arguments to him but at the end of the
day he he chooses the path that he
thinks is right. And so everybody wanted
to kick the cameras out but he's saying
no. We have open court policy. we have
open courts in state of Utah that
there's a presumption that this public
record. Um I I understand that they're
trying to hide the identity of this
person, but if it's not significant, if
there's no problem, why not publicize
that? Um Tyler Robinson's roommate, we
know a lot of information about that
person. We know information about Tyler
Robinson's family. Their privacy has not
been protected. So in a death penalty
case, privacy is is is not going to be
protected. The information is going to
be exposed.
>> It felt like the bias almost came out a
little in that moment when he got he
even appealed to the judge a second
time. Sir, can I appeal to you a second
time not to allow the cameras like you
know what I mean? He was so passionate
in that moment because it was his kid.
>> It under it undercuts their argument
that it's insignificant.
It undercuts. You see that raw emotion,
an appeal to the judge on a second time,
third time appealing, emotional appeal.
Don't expose this person. Don't, you
know, let's let's have a private
hearing. Let's have a sealed hearing.
All of those things. It felt to me as if
it was personal.
>> Well, thank and that's the problem.
>> Yeah, it was interesting to see. Thank
you, Clayton, as always.
>> All right. No, thanks so much. So, as
always, I really appreciate uh Clayton
for for talking with me. Clayton Sims,
the lawyer who I was just talking to.
Um, again, I try to find people to talk
to for you guys that are not just
talking heads that are people that
really know the case and especially know
the community. Like Clayton is from
Utah. He knows the players. He knows
Utah County, which is where I am right
now, where the where the uh the hearing
was today. Um, and so I'm trying to find
guests like that that will really
provide some context into the situation.
And it's interesting. I mean, he is a
defense attorney, so you have to, you
know, take what he says with he's
obviously coming from that perspective.
He's not a prosecutor, but it's
interesting that he believes that um
this is a real issue and that the prose
that this could actually be a conflict
and that the prosecutor
perhaps should be thrown off. So again,
that would be really really significant
um if that happened. It's quiet out here
tonight. Again, this is the courthouse
behind me. Um but when Tyler Robinson
uh comes and goes, there's like a
massive security presence. There's uh so
many people um security guards. Sorry, I
got distracted for a second. So many
security guards. There's uh police.
There's SWAT team. There's a drone in
the air. There's a plane in the air. Um
there's a Humvee that he comes in. So,
it's quite intense when he comes and
goes. So, anyway, appreciate you guys
for watching. Quick shout out to my team
here with News Nation. They're the best.
Allison, you guys know Allison. Mo, say
hi, Mo. We actually got this spot up
here in this parking garage just cuz
it's a good view of the uh of the
courthouse. So, appreciate you guys so
much for watching. Uh I'm going to go
back to Florida now, warm up a little
bit, and uh I'll come back for the next
hearing in February. I really want to be
able to cover this from beginning to
end. Um, and keep you guys posted. So,
uh, talk to you guys later. All right.
Bye.
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