Inside the Charlie Kirk Investigation: Exclusive Interview with Lance Twiggs Family Member and New Details from Utah Valley University

[00:00] Hey guys, thanks so much for checking

[00:01] out my show. I really, really appreciate

[00:03] it. Please click to subscribe. Uh, I am

[00:06] in Utah right now. Um, digging more into

[00:09] the Charlie Kirk murder. I'm also here

[00:11] for a big hearing, which I'm going to

[00:12] get into in a second. I'm at Utah Valley

[00:15] University right now. This is where the

[00:18] shooting actually happened. You can see

[00:20] behind me here, this is the this is like

[00:22] the outdoor courtyard amphitheater where

[00:25] Charlie Kirk was speaking. right down

[00:27] there behind me um when he was shot and

[00:30] killed. And a little later in this

[00:32] episode, going to show you some

[00:34] different vantage points here. And I

[00:35] actually go up on the roof um to kind of

[00:38] give you a little bit of an idea of like

[00:39] the layout in a way that I don't think

[00:41] you've seen it before. Uh but first, I

[00:43] want to talk about this exclusive

[00:45] interview that I got uh with Lance

[00:48] Twigs's family member. Now, Lance Twigs

[00:52] um is the roommate and uh romantic

[00:57] partner according to authorities of

[00:59] Tyler Robinson. Tyler Robinson, of

[01:02] course, is the man who has been charged

[01:03] with killing Charlie Kirk. Um so, we

[01:07] haven't heard much from really any of

[01:10] their families, but es especially Lance

[01:12] Twigs's family since all of this

[01:14] started. Lance Twigs and Tyler were

[01:16] living together, and this is new stuff

[01:18] that I've learned through the family.

[01:20] Lance Twigs and Tyler were living

[01:23] together uh about I think about three

[01:24] and a half hours from here um in an

[01:29] apartment owned by Lance's grandparents.

[01:34] Um, and there was concern, the family

[01:37] began to have concern about Lance and

[01:39] also about Tyler, uh, because the gaming

[01:43] culture that they were involved in that

[01:45] I'm told, I'm told, and also Discord and

[01:48] other activities happening that they

[01:51] were um, concerned about before all of

[01:54] this happened. Um, Lance, by the way,

[01:56] let me just be clear, Lance has not been

[01:58] charged with a crime. Um, but Lance, if

[02:02] you you guys probably remember, Lance is

[02:03] the person, according to authorities,

[02:05] who Tyler Robinson was immediately

[02:08] texting right after the shooting here at

[02:10] UVU. Uh, and he lived with with Lance.

[02:13] So, after this happened, uh, the police

[02:17] have and FBI have said from the

[02:19] beginning that he's been cooperating

[02:21] and, uh, that Lance has in the

[02:23] investigation. Uh, and we believed

[02:25] initially that he was like almost in

[02:26] something similar to the witness

[02:28] protection program. And I have now

[02:30] confirmed that Lance did have FBI

[02:34] protection at one point but no longer

[02:36] does. And I am told that the family

[02:39] retained a lawyer. Lance retained a

[02:40] lawyer and then he no longer had FBI

[02:43] protection and right now he has moved

[02:46] out of state and is no longer in Utah.

[02:48] So that's one of the new things I

[02:49] learned. I want to play you my full

[02:51] interview with this family member who

[02:54] spoke with me. Um, I started talking to

[02:57] her a while ago and um, sort of just

[03:01] built up this relationship with her.

[03:02] Obviously, you guys know I do all my

[03:04] checks behind the scenes to make sure

[03:05] people who are who they really are. And

[03:07] she's actually not the only person in

[03:08] the family who I've spoken to, but she

[03:10] agreed to let me use her voice. Uh, she

[03:13] wanted me to sort of silhouette her face

[03:16] just because a lot of these family

[03:17] members have been getting threats and

[03:19] you can imagine what that's like behind

[03:20] the scenes. So, she wanted to be

[03:22] protected somewhat in that way. But I

[03:24] want to play you a little bit of what

[03:26] she told me. There's um a lot of new

[03:29] stuff in there when it comes to Lance

[03:31] and what she thinks about Tyler

[03:33] Robinson. Uh and this is um this is my

[03:35] interview with her that that played on

[03:37] News Nation.

[03:37] >> I mean, both of them are super smart. I

[03:40] mean, Lance was I do know that. And I

[03:43] remember, you know, his his he was a I

[03:46] don't know [clears throat] concert

[03:47] pianist. Like his his talent for

[03:50] piano music was off the charts. like not

[03:54] not normal. It was very it was very um

[03:58] impressive. And that's kind of what I've

[04:00] heard about Tyler is that he was just so

[04:02] smart and so and it's just a shame that

[04:04] these kids that had so much potential

[04:07] and so such a bright future.

[04:11] >> What do you think changed? I don't, you

[04:13] know, and then being as antisocial as

[04:16] they were from my understanding of, you

[04:19] know, playing these games and being a

[04:20] part of this this Discord group, you

[04:24] know, it just they're they didn't seem

[04:28] like they were in a real world.

[04:29] >> There's text messages between Tyler and

[04:31] Lance

[04:32] um where they're texting

[04:35] >> after the event.

[04:36] >> A lot of people find them unusual.

[04:38] >> Mhm.

[04:40] the world that they were in like this

[04:42] gaming world like that was a normal way

[04:44] that they kind of spoke that it this

[04:48] wasn't an abnormal the way they spoke

[04:50] wasn't abnormal

[04:51] >> there have been a lot of questions about

[04:52] where Lance is now whether he's in the

[04:54] FBI protection program it's been a big

[04:57] mystery he kind of has disappeared

[05:00] >> yeah my understanding was for the first

[05:02] few weeks cuz there were so many threats

[05:06] um against his family that um and um

[05:09] that they had I I my understanding is

[05:12] they did have a little bit of FBI detail

[05:15] and they kind of moved around a little

[05:16] bit but um but he they're not anymore.

[05:19] He's he's with his family.

[05:21] >> Will he still cooperate with the

[05:22] investigation from what you know,

[05:27] >> you know, I don't know. Um, you know,

[05:30] when I first found out about how he was

[05:34] taken in and talked to by the police

[05:37] that it, you know, I know that they said

[05:39] that he was very cooperative, but they

[05:41] they had to go get him and bring him in.

[05:44] He didn't voluntarily go in and say,

[05:46] "Hey, I heard about this and I have some

[05:49] knowledge." You know, he had to go in.

[05:51] Then he had to he handed things over

[05:53] when they asked for him, but he wasn't

[05:55] he didn't give up any information um

[05:57] until he had to.

[05:59] >> There are so many theories out there and

[06:00] I'm sure you've seen them. People think

[06:02] other people are involved or another

[06:04] government was involved. I mean, you're

[06:06] kind of in the middle of this. Um how

[06:09] confident are you that police have the

[06:11] right guy, Tyler Robinson?

[06:13] >> 100%.

[06:15] >> They they have the right guy. So, I've

[06:17] shown you guys this before a while back,

[06:19] but I just want to show you again

[06:20] because one of the main questions that I

[06:23] get is how did Tyler Robinson allegedly

[06:27] get up on the roof? Was it difficult to

[06:29] make the shot? Was it hard for him to

[06:31] get up there? How did he do it? So, I I

[06:33] just wanted to show you guys again. Um

[06:35] this is the UVU campus. The um courtyard

[06:39] where the shooting happened is right

[06:40] back there. But this is all, you know,

[06:42] public area where people walk around. If

[06:44] you just go up these stairs right here,

[06:47] I'm going to walk up the stairs and show

[06:48] you guys. Again, this is totally This is

[06:51] the way the students get to and from

[06:52] class. This is a totally public, very

[06:55] accessible area. So, if you just come up

[06:58] these stairs right here,

[07:01] you're suddenly

[07:04] up here. This is a

[07:08] this is a walkway here. Okay. So, you

[07:10] can get between buildings here. Um, and

[07:14] on this side, it's now gated off. This

[07:18] was not gated off before the Charlie

[07:21] Kirk assassination, but it is now gated

[07:23] off. And right beyond this gate, sorry,

[07:26] I'm out of breath. I think it's the

[07:27] altitude. Um,

[07:30] basically what investigators say Tyler

[07:32] Robinson did is this gate wasn't here,

[07:34] so he just walked right over to that

[07:35] short little uh gate that you see over

[07:38] there, that that more permanent gate.

[07:39] And then all you had to do is just go

[07:41] right on top of that, which would

[07:43] anybody could do. It would just take a

[07:44] second. Just hop that and then you would

[07:47] walk right out on the roof. That's the

[07:49] roof beyond that. So this walkway is

[07:51] level with the roof. So he just has to

[07:55] hop that little gate there, which is

[07:57] what police say did, and then walk out

[08:00] on the roof. And right over there on the

[08:02] edge would be a direct view, just the

[08:06] perfect line of sight to where Charlie

[08:09] Kirk was speaking. Again, this um

[08:11] chainlink fence, this is new. This was

[08:14] not here before the um assassination.

[08:18] So, they put this up once they started

[08:20] investigating. And this like police

[08:22] camera system, that's also new. So, this

[08:25] was all just was all just open. And

[08:27] again, um, this is a very, very public

[08:30] walkway. So, you just come up on this

[08:32] walkway, hop over that little gate right

[08:35] there, and boom, you're on the roof. Uh,

[08:37] and what's interesting is

[08:40] where Charlie was having his event and

[08:44] speaking down, it's almost like a bowl

[08:46] down in that courtyard. Uh, there are

[08:51] places that you could get up on the roof

[08:53] just like this all around. kind of the

[08:55] way this is the university is designed

[08:57] and I was talking to a student about

[08:59] this is um like there's a lot of

[09:02] walkways up above on the roof line. Um

[09:04] that's how they designed it for students

[09:06] to get in between their different

[09:08] classes just like this one that I'm on

[09:10] right here. And that student was

[09:12] actually telling me that when all of

[09:14] this first happened and uh you know

[09:17] everyone was like, "Oh my gosh, how did

[09:18] he get up on the roof?" And there was

[09:19] sort of this national dialogue about how

[09:21] he got on the roof that all of the

[09:22] students here were like, "We can't

[09:23] believe people are even wondering about

[09:25] this because it was so easy. I mean, it

[09:28] it was so easy to get up on the roof."

[09:30] And and that just kind of shows you that

[09:32] um that it really was. So to get up

[09:35] there, it was so easy. He just walked

[09:36] down this public walkway, went over that

[09:38] little fence. To get down, this is the

[09:40] area over here where he jumped down,

[09:42] according to investigators, and then ran

[09:44] back into this little wooded area back

[09:46] here.

[09:48] why he decided to jump down really risk

[09:51] hurting himself versus just coming

[09:53] easily the way that he did before. I

[09:56] don't know. That's kind of interesting.

[09:57] Um I guess I'm sure he was just freaking

[10:01] out and and wanted to get away as

[10:02] quickly as possible, but he could have

[10:03] just come right back the way that he

[10:04] came and right down this really really

[10:07] just like public walkway. All right, you

[10:10] guys remember I was just saying that

[10:11] there's all sorts of walkways up on the

[10:13] roof here with a vantage point of where

[10:16] Charlie Kirk was. Um so this is another

[10:18] area here. This is all a walkway

[10:21] um up high where you can see students

[10:23] are walking in between classes. Um and

[10:27] again if I turn this way that right

[10:32] there is where Charlie Kirk was when he

[10:35] was shot. Um so this entire area you

[10:39] could have been standing. This entire

[10:43] area you could have been standing. I

[10:44] mean, from a security perspective, it

[10:46] really was just a terrible, terrible

[10:50] situation because

[10:52] um again, I'm technically on the roof,

[10:54] but the roof is a series of walkways at

[10:58] Utah Valley University. The students,

[11:00] they've created walkways on the roof. Um

[11:04] so,

[11:07] I I think that is something that people

[11:09] don't understand when you just watch the

[11:11] story. Um cuz it is it's unique. I

[11:14] haven't really seen a college campus

[11:15] like this. Again, these are all walkways

[11:17] and I they are on the roof of the

[11:19] building. So again, come over to this

[11:21] edge. You could have been right up here.

[11:24] That's right where Charlie Kirk was

[11:26] standing.

[11:27] And there were a ton of [snorts] places

[11:31] that someone could have perched

[11:33] themselves. Um it just so happens that

[11:36] Tyler Robinson was up on that building

[11:39] uh right there. So, I I hope this gives

[11:41] you guys a little bit of perspective.

[11:44] Um,

[11:45] again, because I don't think people

[11:47] realize sort of the unique layout of

[11:49] this college campus. So, I want to go

[11:52] over with you guys the other component

[11:53] of what's new here, which is this this

[11:56] hearing that is going to be happening um

[11:58] uh for Tyler Robinson. And this is

[12:01] pretty significant. This is something

[12:02] that I've covered in the past, but now I

[12:04] have a response from the um prosecution,

[12:06] which I'm going to get to in a second.

[12:08] But basically, Tyler Robinson's defense

[12:11] team is saying that the entire

[12:13] prosecution team should be kicked off of

[12:16] the case because the uh one of the

[12:20] prosecutor's children was at the Charlie

[12:22] Kirk event here um was within 80 ft of

[12:26] Charlie Kirk being shot and the defense,

[12:28] Tyler Robinson's defense is saying that

[12:30] that is a conflict um that that person

[12:33] cannot be unbiased uh and that there's a

[12:36] conflict because techn Technically,

[12:38] according to the defense, one of the

[12:41] prosecutor's

[12:43] uh kids is technically a victim here

[12:45] because he was one of or he or she, I'm

[12:47] not sure if it's a boy or girl, was one

[12:50] of the 3,000 people who were at the

[12:53] Charlie Kirk event, one of the 3,000

[12:54] victims. And how can the prosecutor

[12:56] fairly prosecute the case if uh their

[13:00] child is technically a victim? So, they

[13:04] made that filing um and now the

[13:07] prosecution has has made a filing um

[13:10] saying, "Wait a minute, you shouldn't

[13:12] kick all of us off, and this is the

[13:14] reason why," which I'm going to read to

[13:15] you in a second. And that's what this

[13:16] latest hearing is about. Uh and the

[13:19] judge is going to um have to decide

[13:22] which way to go. If he could do a couple

[13:25] of things if he removes the entire

[13:28] prosecution team, which is kind of hard

[13:30] to imagine, but is possible. And the

[13:32] reason that they're saying that it

[13:33] should be the whole team, the defenses,

[13:35] is because they all know each other.

[13:37] There were text messages going back and

[13:38] forth even before Tyler Robinson was

[13:40] arrested. Uh because this prosecutor was

[13:43] texting other people within law

[13:44] enforcement trying to figure out what

[13:45] was going on because the prosecutor's

[13:47] child was at the event. So if they could

[13:50] remove the entire prosecution team,

[13:51] which would mean they'd have to bring in

[13:52] prosecutors in from another part of the

[13:53] state to move forward, which would

[13:54] really delay things because they'd

[13:56] basically be starting over. Or the judge

[13:58] could possibly just remove that one

[13:59] prosecutor from the case. or the judge

[14:01] could decide that none of this is a

[14:03] conflict and everything just moves on

[14:04] the way it is. So that's the hearing

[14:06] that is coming up now. That's the reason

[14:08] I'm in Utah. And uh Tyler Robinson is

[14:12] expected to be at the hearing again. You

[14:14] guys remember last time like security is

[14:16] insane for these hearings. I don't know

[14:18] that I've ever seen anything like it uh

[14:19] in terms of they close down the roads,

[14:21] they bring Tyler Robinson in basically

[14:23] like a big fortified Humvee surrounded

[14:26] by police officers. uh goes in a secret

[14:29] entrance in the building and then they

[14:31] um they uh had like all these SWAT team

[14:34] members inside the courtroom. So, it's

[14:37] going to be a whole big ordeal again in

[14:39] terms of getting in and out. Um but uh

[14:42] yeah, so that that's what the latest

[14:44] hearing is um is about. Tyler Robinson

[14:47] is expected to be there. It'll also be

[14:48] interesting to see if the judge doesn't

[14:50] decide to kind of boot out the public

[14:51] and the media again like he has once

[14:53] before and it turns into a secret

[14:54] hearing where we won't even know what's

[14:56] happening. So, I'm really interested to

[14:57] see if that that happens. So, let me

[14:59] kind of update you though on this

[15:00] argument again. So, the defense made

[15:02] their argument. We need to get rid of

[15:03] the whole prosecution team. Now, the

[15:05] prosecution has filed uh their brief

[15:09] saying, "No, no, that doesn't need to

[15:10] happen." Uh, and let me read you some of

[15:12] this. defendant argues that a member of

[15:14] the prosecution team, then it says

[15:15] deputy county attorney and they don't

[15:17] give the name, has a personal conflict

[15:19] of interest, that the conflict of

[15:20] interest extends to the entire Utah

[15:22] County Attorney's Office and that

[15:24] disqualification of both blank and the

[15:26] office is thereby required. The court

[15:28] should deny defendants's motion because

[15:31] Mr. Blank, they again they don't give

[15:32] the prosecutor name, does not have a

[15:34] personal conflict of interest requiring

[15:36] his disqualification. And even if such a

[15:39] personal conflict were to exist, it does

[15:41] not extend to the entire office. So

[15:43] there you go. The prosecution team is

[15:45] saying you shouldn't disqualify our one

[15:47] prosecutor. And if you do, you shouldn't

[15:48] disqualify the whole office. They say

[15:51] any testimony this prosecutor could give

[15:54] would be merely cumulative of testimony

[15:56] available from literally thousands of

[15:58] other witnesses and would relate solely

[16:00] to uncontested issues because blank has

[16:04] personal

[16:05] murder. And when I say blank's

[16:08] kid, moreover, blank comparatively's

[16:11] minor comparatively minor emotional

[16:13] reaction could not have had a greater uh

[16:17] could not um have had a greater on Mr.

[16:20] Blank and the prosecution team than the

[16:22] significantly more harrowing experiences

[16:24] of many others at the event like those

[16:26] described in the witness statements

[16:27] defendant relies on. Sorry, they like

[16:29] made a typo, so it was hard to read, but

[16:30] basically they're saying that the the

[16:32] prosecutor's kid did not have a very

[16:35] serious emotional reaction to it, only

[16:37] had a minor emotional reaction, and that

[16:39] they wouldn't be relying on that the

[16:41] prosecutor's child's account anyway,

[16:44] that there are people with much stronger

[16:45] witness statements that they would go

[16:47] to. Prosecutors may properly consider uh

[16:50] these more distressing witness

[16:51] reactions. Finally, the filing of the

[16:53] notice of intent to seek the death

[16:55] penalty had nothing to do with any

[16:57] particular individual's attendance at

[16:59] the event. That's something that I left

[17:01] out. So, the defense is claiming that

[17:03] the prosecution is seeking the death

[17:04] penalt seeking the death penalty partly

[17:07] because um because there the one

[17:12] prosecutor's child was technically a

[17:13] victim. So, the defense is trying to say

[17:15] like, "Wait a minute, that might be the

[17:16] reason you're seeking the death penalty

[17:17] because this has impacted you so

[17:19] personally."

[17:20] Uh so then they go over the statement of

[17:22] relevant facts here. 3,000 people who

[17:24] attended the event. Um they say that the

[17:28] uh prosecutor's child was uh on the far

[17:31] right side of the amphitheater on its

[17:33] upper edge some 85 ft from where Charlie

[17:36] Kirk was seated. There was no line of

[17:38] sight from the the prosecutor's kid's

[17:41] position at the amphitheater and the

[17:42] shooter from his position. Um,

[17:46] uh, the, uh, the prosecutor's child did

[17:49] not see Charlie Kirk actually get shot.

[17:50] Apparently had turned their head during

[17:52] that one moment, which they seem to

[17:54] think is important. Um, they crouched

[17:57] down and didn't really see what was

[17:58] going on. Never looked back at Charlie

[18:00] Kirk and did not see him get carried

[18:02] away or see his wound. Did not see

[18:04] anyone with a gun. Did not see anything

[18:06] that made uh, the kid the I say kid, I

[18:09] don't know how old the person is. the

[18:10] child believe anyone saw was seems like

[18:13] it's an adult kid uh was involved in the

[18:16] shooting. So basically they're trying to

[18:17] say didn't really know what happened.

[18:19] They're trying to really downplay I

[18:21] don't know what maybe downplay is not

[18:22] the right word but but they're trying to

[18:23] make the point that the prosecutor's

[18:26] child did not see much and was not

[18:29] emotionally affected by what they did

[18:31] see. Um, but then there are these they

[18:34] actually include in this filing the text

[18:37] messages between the prosecutor's child

[18:40] and the prosecutor, the dad, and then

[18:44] there there's also other family members

[18:46] on on the on the chain. So, it says,

[18:48] "Someone got shot. I'm okay. Everyone is

[18:51] going inside. Charlie got shot." And

[18:53] then someone writes, "Oh my gosh, people

[18:55] say he was shot in the neck and his head

[18:57] like tilted or something. What the heck?

[18:59] Insane. He had answered one question and

[19:02] was talking to the next person. Is it

[19:04] confirmed? Like, is he dead? Blank. Did

[19:06] you hear a gunshot or what sounded like

[19:08] a gunshot? What? Oh my heck. Uh, and

[19:11] then was there he said they found the

[19:14] shooter and put him in a cop car. Uh,

[19:16] and then I for sure heard it. Everyone

[19:18] started screaming and running. A few

[19:19] people said they saw the shot hit his

[19:22] neck. Not sure. I left my bag with all

[19:24] my stuff because I couldn't have time. I

[19:26] didn't have time. Again, this is the

[19:28] appears to be the prosecutor's child.

[19:30] Shooter was on the roof. Doesn't

[19:31] surprise me. The weird thing is the guy

[19:33] asking the debating him in the moment

[19:36] was take was talking about shootings in

[19:38] the US. I think the guy debating him.

[19:41] I'm getting live information, but I

[19:43] can't share it right now. And that's

[19:44] from dad, which is the prosecutor. Um,

[19:48] blank. My uncle said he was in the roof.

[19:50] Someone posted a video of the shot on

[19:53] Twitter. His head tilts to the right.

[19:55] Yeah, I saw it. It's from far away.

[19:57] Yeah, that's what people were saying.

[19:59] The video is horrible. The close-up one

[20:01] is sickening. He gone. Om. OMG. How do

[20:03] you know? How do you know? The close-up

[20:06] video shows a direct hit to the artery.

[20:08] Blood immediately shoots out. Sickening

[20:09] stuff. Yeah. Unbelievable. Yeah, I

[20:11] watched it. Looks like he died

[20:12] instantly. Um, and then they even have a

[20:16] diagram here of where it looks like the

[20:18] uh the prosecutor's child was was um in

[20:23] relation to where Charlie Kirk was.

[20:26] Uh, and again, they're they're sharing

[20:28] these text messages. The prosecution

[20:30] team is, it seems like, to try and make

[20:31] the point that it wasn't that deep of a

[20:34] conversation and that the prosecutor's

[20:36] child did not have that much of an

[20:39] emotional um impact by all of this. Uh,

[20:44] so it's um it's interesting. It's an

[20:47] interesting argument. That's why I'm

[20:48] really interested to go to the hearing.

[20:50] I spoke with Utah defense attorney

[20:52] Clayton Sims about this. uh he's kind of

[20:54] a big-time defense attorney in Utah and

[20:56] is familiar with the case and I wanted

[20:58] to see what he thought about it and

[21:00] which way he thought the judge would go.

[21:01] Take a listen. The prosecution has a

[21:04] conflict of interest that their theory

[21:07] [clears throat] is there's a great risk

[21:08] of death to individuals who were there,

[21:13] observers, people who were at the scene

[21:16] that the shooter could have missed,

[21:18] could have been a ricochet. And if

[21:20] you're within 85 ft, you are technically

[21:23] a victim. So you have an interest in the

[21:26] case. You are the parent of a victim. Uh

[21:31] there could be multiple victims because

[21:34] the number of victims has not been

[21:35] identified or theoretical victims. Uh

[21:38] based upon the state's theory based upon

[21:40] the state's theory that the 3,000 people

[21:43] that were there, uh they could have been

[21:45] injured. They could have been trampled

[21:46] by a stampede. There could have been a

[21:48] ricochet from a bullet. There could have

[21:50] been multiple shots fired that that

[21:53] didn't hit Charlie Kirk and hit other

[21:55] people. And certainly if you're uh 45

[21:59] I'm sorry 85 ft away, you're in the zone

[22:01] of danger that you could have been

[22:03] injured. And in fact uh it seems as if

[22:06] law enforcement and police officers had

[22:08] to verify if that person uh was okay. Uh

[22:12] certainly this would be a concern. uh

[22:14] and it would if you're

[22:18] have a personal connection, your kid is

[22:21] a victim in the case, you cannot be the

[22:24] prosecutor in that particular case. I

[22:26] mean, that makes sense. Um

[22:29] it it it it absolutely makes sense and

[22:31] based upon the prosecutor's theory that

[22:34] other people could have been injured

[22:35] other than Charlie Kirk, uh that child

[22:40] is a potential victim.

[22:43] So, isn't this a pretty clear conflict

[22:45] of interest? I mean, I'm What's the

[22:47] other side of that? It seems seems like

[22:49] this could really be a problem for the

[22:50] defense.

[22:51] >> They may they may prosecution. I mean,

[22:53] >> yeah, the prosecution may may say,

[22:55] "Well, that person is not going to be

[22:56] actively working on the case. That

[22:58] person's going to be um not have access

[23:01] to discovery, not have access to police

[23:03] reports. that prosecutor is going to be

[23:07] um sort of uh separated from the rest of

[23:12] the prosecution team won't be allowed to

[23:14] talk to that prosecution team. Uh but

[23:17] certainly if you have a colleague, a

[23:19] friend, a person you know in the office

[23:22] next door, even if they can't talk to

[23:24] you about the case, you're going to be

[23:25] concerned about them. You're going to

[23:26] get their Christmas card. You're going

[23:28] to see them. You're going to be con

[23:30] worried about them. and you're

[23:32] potentially have that child in your

[23:34] office as a witness, um, but wouldn't be

[23:37] able to talk to their parent about it.

[23:39] >> Well, that's what I was just going to

[23:40] say. What if the the prosecutor's child

[23:43] ends up a witness? Like, that doesn't

[23:44] really work, does it?

[23:46] >> Well, the the pro the defense is welcome

[23:49] to call them. What did you see? You were

[23:51] 85 ft away. They're they're a potential

[23:53] witness. Uh, and certainly they they've

[23:56] been identified as a witness and and and

[23:58] uh the previous motion I think that has

[24:00] now been redacted, I had the benefit of

[24:02] reading um has text messages from the

[24:05] child to the prosecutor. Uh has a number

[24:07] of back and forth um u texts, phone

[24:12] calls made uh that indicate that they

[24:15] they were uh concerned about that

[24:17] person's safety and they perceived the

[24:19] events. the child that was there. And

[24:22] again, there were high school students

[24:24] there, there were college students

[24:26] there. Uh most of the people that were

[24:28] witnesses were between the age of 16

[24:30] and, you know, 25. A lot of young people

[24:34] uh were there as witnesses. And if I

[24:37] remember correctly, there was another

[24:38] motion that referenced this where it

[24:40] discussed how the prosecutors had been

[24:43] texting each other about this too, like

[24:46] about the one family member who was

[24:48] there, that person's family member who's

[24:51] the prosecutor was texting the other

[24:52] prosecutors, too. So, they were all kind

[24:54] of involved, it sounds like.

[24:56] >> Right. There's there's multiple texts

[24:58] back and forth and we don't know the

[24:59] extent of the phone calls uh the texts

[25:02] but certainly there's a concern for the

[25:04] safety of one of the children of the

[25:06] prosecution

[25:08] you staff if not the direct prosecution

[25:10] team. So that sympathy

[25:14] um is not permissible. Uh that would

[25:16] create a a conflict of interest. You

[25:19] would be more uh zealous in your

[25:21] prosecution. you'd be more likely to

[25:23] seek a death penalty if you think that

[25:25] hey my friends kid could have died. Uh

[25:29] those sort of emotions uh take over when

[25:31] you need to be neutral. Obviously every

[25:33] case is emotional. Um but you do need to

[25:36] be emotional when there's that personal

[25:38] connection.

[25:40] >> So how do you think this is going to

[25:41] play out? I mean is this pretty a pretty

[25:43] clear conflict? Like do you think that I

[25:46] mean could could they literally throw

[25:47] out the entire prosecution?

[25:51] Well, they would they would disqualify

[25:52] the prosecution team and they would

[25:54] assign another prosecution team to the

[25:56] case. The problem is is if you don't

[26:01] disqualify

[26:03] Utah County Attorney's Office, does this

[26:06] problem,

[26:07] you know, at the beginning you have this

[26:10] issue. If the judge is wrong, then you

[26:12] have to start all over again. Uh, and

[26:15] that's the risk with not disqualify the

[26:17] Utah County Attorney's Office that you'd

[26:20] have to go through the preliminary

[26:22] hearing, the trial, the sentencing

[26:24] phase, and then if the court, the

[26:27] Supreme Court of Utah

[26:29] decides that they no, you they had a

[26:31] conflict from the beginning, the

[26:33] decision to allow them to continue to

[26:36] prosecute this case is in is is not the

[26:38] correct decision. It's overturned. It

[26:40] would go back to square one. So you may

[26:43] not be advancing the case if you have a

[26:46] conflict that should have been dealt

[26:48] with at the beginning. So the the

[26:50] prosecution should eliminate this as an

[26:53] issue and just step back and let someone

[26:55] else prosecute it.

[26:58] >> Would they have to move it to a

[26:59] different county or would they just

[27:00] bring a prosecution team in from would

[27:02] it be a whole team from a different

[27:04] place?

[27:05] >> Uh it would be a ad a joining county. It

[27:09] could be the county uh to the south,

[27:11] Jueb County, Summit County, Salt Lake

[27:14] County, the counties around Utah County.

[27:17] Um or they could theoretically hire new

[27:20] prosecutors to pursue this that didn't

[27:24] have a connection to their office, maybe

[27:25] house them at a different location, have

[27:28] them different computer network. Uh it's

[27:31] possible to have somebody who would be

[27:32] an employee of the the same government

[27:34] entity but didn't have a connection to

[27:36] that particular prosecutor.

[27:38] Are you surprised that within the

[27:41] prosecutor's office

[27:43] this didn't come up sooner just on their

[27:45] own? Um because don't prosecutors have

[27:47] like a ethical, you know, sort of I

[27:51] mean, aren't they couldn't one of them

[27:53] have come forward and say, I I can't be

[27:55] on this case like this is this is an

[27:57] issue,

[27:58] >> right? Because of the redaction, we

[28:00] don't know exactly who is it a

[28:02] prosecutor who's involved or just a

[28:03] prosecutor at the office. But there is a

[28:06] Brady uh Brady versus Maryland requires

[28:10] disclosure disclosure of any conflicts.

[28:12] Disclosure of any evidence that would be

[28:14] favorable to the defense and certainly

[28:16] this would be evidence that would be

[28:17] favorable to the defense. Has the

[28:19] prosecution uh been motivated in part

[28:23] because they know somebody who was

[28:26] there? They knew somebody who could have

[28:28] died as a result of that could have been

[28:30] injured um as a witness if there was a

[28:33] ricochet. if there was a missed shot, if

[28:36] there was a a riot or a trampoline u as

[28:39] a result of the hysteria. So it it it it

[28:44] was disclosed at some point, but

[28:46] certainly it is required to disclose

[28:48] something favorable under Brady v

[28:50] Maryland.

[28:51] >> As always, I appreciate Clayton for

[28:53] [clears throat] uh for talking with me.

[28:54] Uh I'll keep you guys posted with what

[28:56] happens at the hearing. Um again, it's

[28:58] hard getting in there. I mean, you're

[29:00] not Was I allowed to I was allowed to

[29:01] have my laptop, but the security is

[29:03] really, really intense. Uh, and they

[29:05] close off the roads and I have to get

[29:06] there really early to make sure that I

[29:08] get a seat inside. Uh, but we are able

[29:10] to have cameras inside. It's going to be

[29:12] interesting to see what happens with the

[29:13] cameras this time though because

[29:15] remember last time there was some kind

[29:16] of drama over the cameras. The camera

[29:18] was very, very close to the defense

[29:19] table and also um the camera was able to

[29:23] pick up uh some of the conversation

[29:25] between Tyler Robinson and his defense

[29:27] attorneys. So, the judge still hasn't

[29:29] made a final decision about whether

[29:30] cameras can stay long term. I do believe

[29:32] cameras will be at this next hearing,

[29:35] and I'm assuming they'll put the camera

[29:37] in a different place inside the

[29:39] courtroom, uh, just because, uh, it was

[29:41] an issue, I think, having the camera so

[29:43] close to Tyler Robinson and his defense

[29:45] team. Um, so I'll have video from inside

[29:48] court. I'll have the latest for you

[29:50] guys. Um, and uh, yeah, it's actually,

[29:53] you know, it's sad because these places

[29:55] where tragedies happen, like where I am

[29:56] at Utah Valley University, kind of get

[29:58] like a reputation for just the bad thing

[30:01] that happened. But Utah Valley

[30:02] University is really actually a really

[30:04] nice um, school. Just by the way, I

[30:06] mean, I've been here a ton now since uh,

[30:08] the shooting and spent like the whole

[30:10] day out here today and everyone's like

[30:12] super nice and uh, it's actually sadly

[30:14] like a really really pretty campus, too.

[30:16] There's mountains in the distance and

[30:17] and where Charlie Kirk was was murdered

[30:20] is actually a really beautiful courtyard

[30:22] area. So, it's it's a shame that they

[30:24] had to go through that here and that the

[30:26] school kind of now has this um

[30:27] reputation for the place where Charlie

[30:29] Kirk was killed. Um so, anyway, that's

[30:32] the latest from Utah for now. I'll keep

[30:33] you guys posted on what happens with the

[30:35] hearing and I'll talk to you guys later.