Charlie Kirk Shot at Utah Valley University During Campus Speaking Event in Orem

own conservative uh activist named Charlie Kirk has been shot at Utah Valley University. All indications are that that happened. We don't know how severe the situation is, but indeed a troubling thing to hear. We're going to take some deep breaths. We're not going to go too fast because of how little we know about this, but more information is coming in constantly and we're hearing from people who were at the scene because he was on the campus of Utah Valley University speaking to students and there was a big turnout. And so, uh, among those students is a woman named Sarah Toro. And Sarah, are you with me right now? >> I am. Yeah. Sarah, um, first of all, I I I understand that you were there as this happened. Um, I I'm sorry that you had to experience this. I My own son was there, but real far away and and uh and it's a traumatic thing to go through. So Sarah, what what did you see? What did you hear? >> Yeah. So Charlie Kirk had just started answering questions and he'd answered a question about the difference between the Mormon church and the Protestant church and answered that and then moved to the next person and the next person asked about the mass shootings that have been happening in America by transgenders. And Charlie answer the man asked how many had been by transgender and Charlie Kirk answered too many. And the crowd erupted in cheer. And then the man asked um or then Charlie asked if it if he should count gun gang violence in that number. And the >> kid who asked the question and right then we heard one, >> you know, your your your signal Sarah is breaking up a little bit. So, I didn't hear those last few things that you just said, but you're talking about Charlie Kirk answering some questions. Some of those questions getting into uh topics of school shootings and who uh and and who um does the shooting in those situations? Was there any sense that you had that that questioning had something to do with the leadup to the shooting or someone involved with that was involved in the shooting? >> Possibly. the question. Charlie was letting the guy answer the next part of the question when he asked, "Are we counting gang violence?" And right then is when we heard the gunshot. Yeah. >> Um we saw Charlie get hit in the neck and he fell straight backwards in his chair and then it was just mass chaos and everyone started running. >> Now Sarah, um we we've been told that that police do have the suspect in custody. I don't know if you know that, but I want you to if uh if you didn't know that because Good. >> That's that must be reassuring to hear. >> So you you were close enough or watching closely enough that you saw that he was hit. >> Yes, we were very close. Um just up like a level on the grass. Um and we we saw him get hit and and fall backwards. And this is for people who are familiar with Utah Valley University. There's that amphitheater area outside of the um I forget what it's called, but this the complex with all of the the student services and the food. Uh it's that amphitheater that's there. And they have some raised levels as you go back. So you were on the first level uh close to him. >> Yes. And so he was down low in the bottom of kind of under the bridge that goes across and it was full. it. There were so many people there, people on balconies across the way, people up above. The whole amphitheater was full of people. >> There was a huge turnout. >> You you had mentioned that people that people cheered at his answer to one of those questions. Uh were there were there protesters as well? I imagine that that that happens at a lot of these campuses. >> Yeah, there were quite a few protesters. Not too many, but they were they were in a different section from us. They were up above us. off of Charlie's tented were flinging their flags and had signs. >> Did you have any sense from what you heard of of the gunshot that it had come from from far away or close up? Um I don't know if you have any experience with being around guns and what a what a pistol might sound like compared to a rifle. >> Yeah, it sounded like a pistol to me. Um and it didn't seem like it was very far away. Um because it is down in that little cove, it it kind of echoed off the buildings. People thought there were multiple shots, but it was only one and it hit him straight straight in the left side of his neck and he just fell backwards in his chair. >> Did uh as you were there, I imagine you mentioned all the chaos. Um were you able to see anything more about what was happening there on the Deis? Uh what we've seen from from video uh online is that he was under a canopy uh >> um and uh and talking on a microphone and it looked like sitting on a stool or something like that and then fell backwards. >> Yes, he was on a stool and fell backwards because he it didn't have a back on it. >> And uh and did you see anything after that after he had fallen? Any any indication that he had gotten up? >> No, I didn't look back. I grabbed my daughter and my son's girlfriend and we ran as fast as we could out of there. >> Oh my gosh, Sarah, I didn't realize that you were there with family. Um, that's that's really scary. >> Yeah, it was terrifying. >> Yeah. Um, and uh are are you a student or were you there in particular to attend this event? >> No, I went with my daughter. Um, we're huge fans of Charlie Kirk and we we love him and love his views and wanted to be there to support him and show him some Utah love and just I'm shocked that this happened here. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, he uh he is very popular, one of the top podcasts on all all the the services. So, I imagine that you you're someone who who listens to that on a regular basis. Yeah, we enjoy Charlie Kirk's >> viewpoints and his message. Yeah. >> How How's your daughter? How's your son? >> My daughter and we're all pretty shaken up. We can't stop shaking, but but we're okay. We got back to They go to BYU and we got back to their apartment and we're regrouping here. So, >> yeah, >> we're doing okay. and and Sarah, like I mentioned, I I got a call from from my son immediately after this happened and uh and and have a sense of how upsetting the whole thing was. Um so, so feel a little bit of what you're describing there. Um in terms of the crowd, did you have the sense when you say there were protesters and they were pretty far back, so you had a sense that most of the folks who were there in close, they were there to support her? >> Yes. I didn't hear any hecklers in the audience. It was down low um by him. Um lots of Make America Great again hats on, lots of American flags. Um everyone cheering for Charlie when he came out. He'd only been out maybe 10 15 minutes before this happened. So he wasn't out for very long. >> And uh this is um we're we're at kind of a fraught time in American politics. Uh just a so much going on, so much uh back and forth that that does get into um in into violent rhetoric and and that sort of thing. What what what did this I it might be too soon to ask how this might change how you view things. Um but uh but did I guess it's just a terrible surprise to realize that you were at in a position where you witness something like this, >> right? You you never think it's going to happen to you. Um I was a little nervous going. I thought there would be, you know, a lot of unrest and a lot of um protesters, but we got there and everything seemed calm. Everyone was really excited to be there. >> Yeah. >> Um there wasn't a ton of protesters. There were they were up on the upper balcony. Didn't really have a view of Charlie in his tent. >> Um but they had different flags and signs flying and they would boo certain things, but the crowd was so much louder. >> The crowd that was there in support was so much louder than they were. So we really couldn't hear what they were saying >> and it's uh you know and and having protesters at a political event is a very is a very normal thing, a very American thing really. So it's so not really >> Absolutely. >> Um casting any aspigence on people who are there to protest. Uh >> um but but a violent act like this is pretty is pretty frightening. Sarah, um >> yeah, >> the the crowd did you when when this happened, you say everyone just kind of ran. Um and and there was a certain amount of panic. Did it seem like people were um were safe? Were they uh there wasn't anyone being trampled or any danger in the crowd? >> Um everyone first dropped. We had all dropped to the ground. Um and then I just and our friend and I said, "Let's run." And we we ran next to the buildings as close as we could get to the building that we were next to. Everyone trampled the bushes. >> Yeah. Um, and we went into the closest building we could find and then ran directly out the other side of the building and ran up the parking lot to our cars. >> Um, yeah, there wasn't I didn't see anyone getting trampled. I'm sure people did. It was a lot of people to move out of a small area really quickly. >> Yeah. >> But luckily there were a lot of different routes people could run. >> Yeah. >> And it wasn't just one one route out. So that was good. And and you described what what my son did as well, which is one one shot. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> One shot. >> Um well, I Sarah, I I I think the last question um that I have is just you you're a parent. You obviously have uh what two children, you say, who are at BYU or who are in school in college? >> Yeah, I have three college age kids and one in high school. Um, but none at UVU, but my son's girlfriend is at UVU and she was with us. >> Yeah. Um, what kind of tug on your heart is it going to be that when they go back to uh to school and they're not, you know, not not in your home? >> Yeah, it's it's already terrifying to let your kids go out into the world, but this makes it a little bit more raw and a little bit scarier. Um, I think just being aware of your surroundings and and being safe and know having an exit plan. That was one thing I I always look for the way out whenever I go anywhere, which is sad that we think that way, but I >> Yeah. >> always am looking for an exit route. And I I did when we got there, I thought, where will I run if I have to run? And it's exactly where we ran. >> Yeah. Yeah. you know, um that's what when my when my son was on the phone, I was like, "Okay, be alert to your surroundings. Have your head on a swivel and and get to get to a safe place. Get to your get to your car." >> Yeah. >> So, all right, Sarah Sarro, um I'm glad you're safe. I'm glad your family's safe. I'm sorry that you witnessed that and I'm grateful that you talked with us. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Um, that was Sarah Toro, uh, a mother of college age students and someone who is in attendance of the Charlie Kirk event at Utah Valley University. Charlie Kirk, uh, shot at that event as far as we know. Uh, we're still waiting for police confirmation of that or medical confirmation of that, but we have heard from uh, enough people who say that they saw that happen. Now we're gonna we can listen to this here for one second. I'm seeing this as you are seeing it as well for the first time. This is before the shooting. You can see how big the crowd is. If you're not familiar with Charlie Kirk, that's understandable. He's uh he's well known within certain circles, but not uh not someone who's uh nationally famous in the broad sense of the word. but still well known, significant in right-wing political circles. And he is uh as a um as a a speaker and as somebody who's on podcasts and the radio. Uh I believe that Apple rated him or his podcast like the 12th or 13th most popular podcast on Apple. That's a pretty huge deal that that each of his programs is downloaded about a half a million times or more. Um, so a lot of people who who like him. Uh, and there we go. People tossing out merchandise. That's him, I believe. I I honestly uh I'm I've been aware of Charlie Kirk for a long time, but I haven't watched him. But I'm pretty sure that that is him. Uh, who who we just saw going walking out. This is something that was on his uh X feed. Uh so his his tweet earlier where uh his supporters or or whoever handles his posts when he's busy at an event uh posted that to show that he had uh uh that he had come out that there was a big crowd uh that was pretty adoring of him. And we heard then also from Sarah Toro when she arrived that she was uh that she is a big fan of him. We do I do want to tell you that we do have a uh a statement from Cash Patel who's the director of the FBI and he said, "We are closely monitoring reports of the tragic shooting involving Charlie Kirk at Utah Valley University. Our thoughts are with Charlie, his loved ones, and everyone affected. Agents will be on the scene quickly, and the FBI stands in full support of the ongoing response and investigation. We don't know if as Cash Patel uh was writing that if he had um more confirmation than us about uh Kirk uh being shot, but it does seem pretty clear that that is the case that that happened. And what we heard from Sarah Toro, who was close to the front uh as that was happening, and she was simply a witness, um saying that uh when when he went down after uh after it looked like he was shot, he did not she did not see him get back up. Um we're told that the suspect in this situation has been apprehended by police. We don't know anything more about that person. Um and uh and we know that the that crowd there at Utah Valley University, if you're familiar with the that area, that common area at Utah Valley University, um that amphitheater is a beautiful location. Um wonderful water features there. It's a place of peace during a school day usually. Um but it's also it's it's a place that's enclosed uh that's kind of walled in. uh even though it's outside, there are buildings surrounding that area and you really it's it's not as if you're in an open field and you can just leave. There are there are buildings that you have to get around and there would be some places where things would um where there would be bottlenecks of people trying to leave. And so what we're hoping is that everyone's okay there. Now, uh I I've been joined by by a couple of colleagues. I want to let you at home know that Robin Aier is sitting next to me here on the desk. I don't know if we're going to be showing her right now, but she'll be joining us and talking um as we go through this. And Ben Winslow is there um at Utah Valley University. Ben, uh this is a a startling event. Um something that you know is possible, but you don't think will happen. Where are you right now, Ben? And how did you hear about this and and race down there? >> Well, we are across the street from Utah Valley University. I want you to see over here you can see a a massive police staging area. From what we've seen as we've approached uh this area, the entire campus appears to be locked down and certainly a lot of people here for Charlie Kirk's uh event that was taking place, including some people uh joining us here. um the these young women. Uh can you just tell me first of all your names and and and what you were what brought you all here? >> Yeah, my name is Sarah. I had classes at UVU today and decided to go watch Charlie Kirk between my classes. So, >> my name is Paris. I just wanted to come and watch us what I thought would be a civil conversation and it turned completely different. >> What did you see? I I looked down when it happened, but so basically um I heard a loud bang, which I figured a shot would be a little bit louder, but uh I just saw it hit him in the chest and then all of a sudden just tons of blood gushing right out where his heart is and then he like fell over and slumped down and everybody got down and was screaming and then we all ran. >> Can you describe just did did he appear to be moving afterward or or what? >> Not at all. Um I personally believe he was dead on impact. >> Oh my goodness. Um what what happened after that? What did you what did you see? >> We well we just everyone got down. Everyone was so scared and um I just grabbed her and my boss is with us which is her mom. She was like run and we finally got up and followed the crowd and I just kept holding her. I don't even have my shoes on. I left my keys like and everyone's just like scared like it it's traumatizing like you know it it scares like I don't even want to go to school tomorrow you know. So, I agree with that. >> Yeah, I'm scared to go to school. But >> you heard the one shot. Were there multiple shots or or >> I think just just one shot straight into Charlie Kirk and that was it. And I think they got him. >> And did you see the person who who fired the shot or anything like that? >> No, I just knew that it came to the right of me and went just directly into his heart. I got a picture of him. >> Did you what what did you see as far as I mean were was the crowd how was the crowd reacting to him? I mean he is somewhat known for being provocative. Uh but what was going on beforehand? What was he talking about? >> So the first student got up and they were talking about religion, Mormonism and Christianity. And the second student to get up was talking about transgenderism and how um gun violence has been very frequent with that community. And that is when it happened. Pretty ironic. >> Right. Like right after, during. Right. On that topic. Yeah. It's when he got shot in the heart. >> Yeah. >> What did you all see? You're joining us. What did What did you see? >> Well, I was about to enter the building. I heard what I thought was a gunshot and I heard took cover. Um and then I saw the students running out and I saw her. She was panicking. I thought she's having a >> panic attack. So then I grabbed her and her and we ran through the tunnel and then just brought her to my car over here to get her to calm down. So >> I was watching from pretty close up and I heard a pop and I thought, "No, that that nobody's shooting firecrackers, right? This is the middle of the day." And then I watched a fountain of blood come out of the side of his neck like a water fountain. And it was surreal. Everyone dropped and I was like, "Where's the gunman? I don't see any gunman." And then I dropped because I'm just very logical thinker like that. And so, uh, yeah. And then a friend of mine drove me over here, just barely dropped me off, but he got a picture of the gunman and, um, it's pretty embarrassing. He got his pants pulled down as they took him down and I he sent me a picture. He was wearing garments, garment bottoms or what looked like white knee shorts just, you know, Utah. >> Obviously, a volatile situation and and what was the crowd's reaction when all of this happened? You said you were up, you were standing there, you know, a little frozen, it sounds like. What was the crowd's reaction? >> Everyone freaked out and screamed. And then after everyone was leaving, there was just a lot of confusion until the cops started making everyone leave because people were still standing around and talking and in clusters, but the majority had run. And so, you know, um after that, the police forced everyone in and they started roping off the courtyard in yellow police tape. And then as we were walking through the hall, policemen with large the campus was being shut down. >> I'll see you with the police. Was there a police presence there from the beginning? You know, how did it how did it unfold? >> Yeah, so there definitely was a police presence there. I saw some on top of the balcony above um and some below and of course you have uh Kirk's own kind of bodyguards around. Um but I will definitely say we saw a lot more after the shooting of course. You said you said you you may have seen something. >> Well, I'm just saying Charlie Kirk is a hero. >> All right. [Music] >> Everybody in in there was very concerned for him and all I could think of was go towards Charlie because I just want to know if he was okay. You know, a lot of people like him. He's a very courageous man. >> What did you see? Can you just recap what you saw? >> Yeah, I saw him uh just go over to the side. So everybody then dispersed and and ran into the buildings or all over. But um so I wanted I went toward Charlie and then pretty soon they got somebody the police arrested someone. They were dragging him all the way down. Uh older man, white hair, blue shirt, you know. So I hope that was him. I hope they got him. >> And you all are physically okay? I mean I know what you experienced was certainly very traumatic, but you're physically unharmed. Yeah, the man who after they took him down, he yelled, "I do it again." >> All right, we're gonna send it back to you. We'll we'll continue to talk to people who witness this and and uh and update you as we get more information. >> Ben Winslow, thank you so much. Uh fast response there and uh and hearing from some people who saw something absolutely horrible. Robin, this is uh this has been a scary few minutes. spend less than an hour. It was at 12:27. Uh I was looking at my phone when I when I got that phone call and and we sit next to each other. >> That's right. I heard you talking to Luke. >> Yeah. And you know you know my family. You know my son. So you were concerned as well. But that was so it was 12:27 then just shortly after that. And I got on the phone with my son and I heard people screaming in the background. And a lot of people are getting those phone calls right now. >> That's right. >> We think that things are safe at Utah Valley University now. But but what a what a situation. >> Absolutely. And as someone who has covered shootings um big shootings, mass shootings before, it is scary for everyone involved, whether you're there or whether you know someone that is there. It is not a good feeling at all. And I mean, I've just been seeing things pop up on social media and how quickly everything has blown up and the response just came in within minutes of this happening. >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and it was um, uh, and and by the way, we're we're being really judicious with what we're going with what we show. Absolutely. Because it's, uh, this is a, this is a scary event. Um, we are going to show some video now uh, that does have some sound. I want to warn you. Um, I don't know exactly what this video shows, but I've seen some video and I just want >> It's blurred >> and it's blurred. Okay. Um, but if if this is something that might upset you, it's upsetting to me as well. So, uh, so you can make that decision. And I'm just talking so you can make that decision. And let's take a look. Okay. I am not sure um what was happening. >> We're we're working on it. >> Yeah, we're still working on getting that video into you. You can see that there's some blur. Uh it's a it's it's a disturbing thing to see, of course. Um and uh and our our political situation in this country is has coarsened. It's uh um it's difficult to see. And then to see something like this happen uh in Utah is extraordinarily upsetting. But we're going to keep on bringing you the latest about it, including responses from folks and they're beginning to come in from all over the country. >> They are. Governor Cox has written in. I believe we have what he had to say um queued up. He did say, "I am being briefed by law enforcement following the violence directed at Charlie Kirk during his visit to Utah Valley University today. We will continue to share updates. Those responsible will be held fully accountable. Violence has no place in our public life. Americans of every political persuasion must unite in condemning this act. Our prayers are with Charlie, his family, and all those that are affected. You know, if you do look at the response online, a lot of it is just shock and initial awe of what happened. But there are some people now saying, you know, I'm on this side of the aisle. I'm on that side of the aisle, but this is not something we ever would want to see. >> No. No. And this is and this is one of those situations where, um, Charlie Kirk is someone who's very much on one pole of the political spectrum, uh, and ve very far to the right. Um, very controversial and, uh, and enjoys the controversy, is kind of thrilled at at being a part of things that way. Um, but it doesn't matter what poll you're closer to. Uh, violence, like the governor said, is uh it's it's upsetting. It has no place as a as a public statement in any way in a democratic society. >> Absolutely. >> And uh, Vice President Vance has put out a statement on X as well. And he says simply, say a prayer for Charlie Kirk, a genuinely good guy and young father. One thing that you do see when you look at a statement like that is that um Charlie Kirk is someone who if you're unfamiliar with him, a lot of movers and shakers are very familiar with him. He he is someone who knows personally the president and vice president and uh and other significant figures in our country. >> That's right. The White House also responding. We must all pray for Charlie Kirk who has been shot. A great guy from top to bottom. God bless him. that is signed President Donald Trump. >> So a difficult situation. Let's let's move back a little bit. This happened at Utah Valley University. It was an announced event organized. Um Charlie Kirk who is he is the founder of a group called Turning Point USA that has organized uh student conservative student conferences for all around the country at colleges. That's right. He's someone who's made his name on college campuses at events like this. >> Absolutely. And this is becoming more common. College campuses are grounds for places to have discussions about things that are happening in the world and about difference of opinions. So this would be the ideal place for Charlie to to come, right? >> So not obviously not surprising that he was here and there were many people in attendance. We were talking about it in our morning meeting today. >> Oh yeah. >> And so we knew that it would be heavily attended, but obviously no one could anticipate that this is what would happen. >> And uh what you're seeing right now, you see the Turning Point USA logo there. Um they they sponsored big events including presidential campaign events for uh President Donald Trump. Um, so, uh, this is something that will reverberate beyond, uh, beyond just an event in Utah. It already is, as you can see. Um, we do have a a live, uh, video from, uh, University Parkway in Oram, and that's where Utah Valley University is, and what you can see there is those are a whole lot of emergency vehicles. >> Yes. Heavy police presence. Yes. You do not see that every day. Certainly, um, a a situation that is still being monitored even though the shooter we are hearing has been apprehended, but obviously a lot to be to be done to be looked at in the coming hours and days. >> Yeah, this is um and and so this event it was at the amphitheater at Utah Valley University. It's a place where um covering different events at the university which is a terrific place and a beautiful campus. Uh it's a wonderful part of campus. This amphitheater. Uh normally it's a place where you might see a few students scattered here or there on the grass doing their studies uh enjoying the sun and some fresh air in between classes enjoying some of the food from the nearby um from the nearby student center. Uh, and it's also a good place to hold an event like this, except when things uh got really scary. Uh, it's not an it's not an easy place for a mass group of people to leave. It's surrounded by buildings on all sides. >> Certainly is a beautiful campus. I've done many interviews there. It is just wild to think that it happened in that space. I do believe we have that video we had been working to show you all earlier. This is >> of what happened. It is blurred. Um, if we want to pull that up right now. Do we have that? [Music] >> Do you know how many there counting or not counting gang violence? Okay. >> Yeah. So, you could hear when that shot occurred >> and uh such an intentional act and someone who uh >> clearly had in mind what their goal was because it was one shot. Absolutely. Just one shot. That's what my son said when he called me. It was just one shot. He wasn't sure what it was. He was hoping that it was not a gunshot even though he thought it was. >> Right. And I mean that's the thing about these events usually too is that it's not just one shot, it's multiple shots. Very rarely. Again, as someone who has covered things like this, there are multiple shots. But I could see how it would be easy to think that, oh, maybe that wasn't a gunshot because you did hear just one. But >> I'm also thinking of the people who were sitting there front and center who actually saw it. that is not something that is easy to witness. >> It's a traumatizing thing. It's going to be I'm sure a lot of you just even hearing about it, it's a traumatic thing to hear about. Um, and th this is um also an event we're used to thinking about uh in whether it's in fiction or in real life and unfortunately we've seen uh it in real life at least attempts recently uh that it happens to someone who's a figure high enough like a president or presidential candidate >> uh where they have this cordon of security around them. Uh when Charlie Kirk shows up to campus, he has a whole lot of people around him, but he doesn't have Secret Service. Uh he has what uh what security is there on campus and can be provided. And that security >> got the guy apparently um at least took him into custody, but but unfortunately not able to protect uh Kirk at the time. No, I do believe we >> I I think we're going to get to Spencer Joseph in a moment, but let's get to who Charlie Kirk really is. And I think uh um we're going to be joined by Nate Carile. Nate's getting set up over here. Fox 13 investigative reporter Nate Carile is here to tell us a little bit. Nate, uh if if someone's a conservative, they have heard of Charlie Kirk. >> That's right. He is a popular figure in conservative circles. He's only 31 years old from the Chicago suburbs. He was an Eagle Scout. He founded Turning Point USA, a conservative youth organization. Kirk himself is a college dropout, but Turning Point really put attention on what it called liberalism on campuses. It published professor watch list and schoolboard watch list. Kirk frequently went to college campuses to challenge the views of students there. Uh there's video of him challenging others to debate him and shouting back at college students. Kirk also worked in conspiracy theories, some of them anti-semitic. There were also conspirac conspiracies about voter fraud and the CO 19 pandemic. He once called himself a secularist, but has since become a Christian nationalist opposed to abortion and gay marriage. Max Robin Kirk has a media empire. radio shows, social media channels, bookings on other conservative shows. This shooting will ripple through all that. >> Yeah, there there is a whole ecosystem, Nate, of uh of conservative, especially on the on the far right uh involved more with social media, streaming, podcasting, those sorts of things uh with uh with Charlie Kirk and Turning Point USA. And this uh and this is going to, like you said, reverberate um through there. And uh and and you just have to you have to be um concerned about what what the temperature of the reaction is going to be. And and uh Nate, I wonder as you as you've been looking into this and this is something where you're you're familiar a little bit with that ecosystem that I was talking about. I wonder about your thoughts there. Well, you know, this there's going to be a lot of fingerpointing. Whoever the suspect is, um, you know, the suspects, uh, not just motives will be prob, but so will the demographics of the, uh, the suspect, uh, whoever he or she or they are. Um, the other thing to know is that, you know, these things kind of take on a life of their own. Um, I saw a lot of this when I was covering the January 6th riot aftermath. um you know, one theory kind of leads to another um and uh gets picked up and and passed around. Um uh us journalists here in Utah are going to have an important job in the coming days, weeks, and months um uh explaining what the facts here are. Uh and trying to explain to people what really went on in ORM today. >> That's right. And I mean actually that fingerpointing has already begun. If you look online, there are already people, you know, who have their own thoughts and theories on who this guy is, who shot him, but obviously this is information that, you know, authorities and police and the FBI are going to actually verify for us in >> in the days to come. So, you you can't really listen to any of that, but yes, as you said, Nate, um people are already pointing the finger as happens. >> Nate Carlile, thanks so much. We appreciate you doing some some work on this and look forward to hearing from you >> um soon. You know, you were mentioning Robin really aptly. Uh that >> a lot of a lot of theories and Nate mentioned this too pop up around something like this. Uh and we were even hearing hearing some of it as people were talking about what questions he was answering and why this happened. And uh and in answering those questions, they were talking about different demographic groups who might be involved with violence or might not be. Uh here at Fox 13, that's that's not our job dealing with theories, with conspiracy theories. Our job is to talk to you about what actually happened >> and listen to those things as they tell us something about the temperature of the situation, of the uh the the tone of of the political conversation that happens. and the personal conversations that happen after something like this. >> Absolutely. I think you know the smart thing to do is not to look at what is said right after an event happens. It's just to wait and really get the facts. But we do have several boots on the ground at the campus including Spencer Joseph who is there. Spencer, what are you learning as you are on campus right now? Rob? >> Yeah, Robin, at this point we've had a bunch of people that have come up to us. In fact, the parking lot is pretty much gridlocked. You can see all around us. These are people that are trying to get off of campus. These cars haven't moved uh in minutes since we've been here. Now, there are a couple of people. Remind me your name. You just walked up just a moment ago. What was your name? >> I'm Ethan. >> Ethan. Okay. So, tell me, Ethan, what did you see? You said that you you saw the shooting. >> Yeah, I I saw the shooting. Um we were like second row. We were just looking up and we see, you know, he was debating about shooting and he's talking about it and then we see a we hear a shot and then there's a wave of blood come out of his chest and we all get down. Um I had a couple people trample me actually so it was pretty horrific but we were able to get out. That's a good part. And I guess we're on lockdown now so we're gonna be here for a while apparently. >> Yeah. So tell me about the you know you got down in the moment. Did you realize it was a gunshot? Because from the video we've seen it it just was one shot, right? Did you realize right away what had happened? >> You want to answer that? >> The craziest part about it is I think we're all like super desensitized from like movies and stuff. So I saw it and I I immediately just couldn't believe what my eyes were seeing. But like few seconds after I just quickly got down. I realized that it was all real and super scared. And I was with my sister and my best friend Ethan here and we were all just on the ground just really scared and panicking. And after that we all ran inside and got out as soon as possible. >> Now you and I were talking a little bit before this. You were walking in uh into a building right as this happened. Um tell me kind of your um a little bit further away uh experience and seeing that wave of people come towards you. Yeah. So I immediately as I walked in I saw people coming my way and uh you kind of would ask and you were like kind of what's going on and they were like there's been a shooting and that's all they knew. And so I didn't know whether it was an active shooter situation, whether it was targeted, whether it was just mass hysteria from a loud noise or something like that. So I turn around and kind of start walking slowly away talking to more people and they say it's Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk just got shot. and uh I exited the building and tried to talk to more people and that's what they had to say. >> I want to ask um Charlie has obviously been to what I would probably say thousands of campuses all across the country. Um what's your reaction to this happening at Utah Valley University? >> Well, actually the first question was about the LDS faith and he was very open to it. He was very kind. It was a very nice interaction. And then the very the second question one he got shot on was actually about shootings about transgender shootings and that's when it happened. So I don't think it has anything to correlate with Utah or the LDS faith or anything like that because Charlie at the very beginning he's very open how much he loves the LDS faith and stuff like that. So I don't think it has anything to correlate with that specifically. Uh it's very shocking that something like this would happen in Oram, Utah cuz Orm's supposed to be really safe, right? But we live like we live like 3 minutes that way. So it's kind of crazy that like this would happen, you know? It's like it's unreal. >> Super conservative area, too. >> I It's unbelievable. >> Um I I don't want to scapegoat anybody. Um this is a horrific This is a tragedy. And I don't agree with Charlie Kirk. I agree that has the right to say what he says. I pray for him and his family. Um, he's a father, he's a husband, and I hope and I pray he pulls through and he can recover from this horrific act by hopefully a lone actor and someone who does not represent our school or our faith or our our state and hopefully he doesn't represent our country either. >> And I'd like on that. I feel like a lot of people should really embody and really take in how important freedom of speech is in this country. >> And I think little by little a lot of it is getting taken away. >> I really think that um there's people trying to censure um you know it doesn't even matter what movement it is. I think there's people trying to censure what people are doing and as normal people we we don't think that's right you know >> and I stand by freedom of speech. That's something I believe in. I think everyone should believe in that. >> Yeah. Let me ask about the event itself. How about how many people were in attendance? How big was that crowd? You said you were about second row, right? >> Yeah, we were second row. Um before the event, I was actually looking at my my friend right next to me. It wasn't him. And I was saying, you know, there's got to be security here. You know, there's he's at the bottom of this giant like coliseum looking thing. And I'm saying this there should be some security. Like there's crazy people here. There were I mean there's tons of conservatives, tons of um supporters like you know a lot of us but there were also a lot of people that you could tell didn't like him. You know what I'm saying? You know this is crazy. I said I actually mentioned like what if something really like crazy happened right now? What if he got shot? I did say that. >> He actually did say that. Yeah. >> And we know what happened. >> What was your kind of perspective of everything as everything was happening? Um, so I was with my brother and his best friend Ethan. I just oh man I just I just thought it was going to be like a fun event and you know you see Charlie Kirk all over social media and man just you hear the pop and then you just see like hit his chest and then just blood squirted out of him all over the table and he just fell over and I just like I'm shaking and I didn't get to the ground very first that just wasn't my reaction. And then my brother pulled me down and he put his body on top of me. And then Ethan came and put his body on top of me and everything just happened so fast and everyone was running and screaming saying get down. I just I it just didn't feel real in the moment especially like the blood. Like I just I'm still really shaken up. I mean it happened like 40 minutes ago. So um you were if you can pull out your phone really quick. I' I'd like to just uh if you can give me some highlights of the email that was sent out. We know the campus is closed right now. Um but that got sent out maybe 10 minutes ago or so. >> Yeah. So basically I got a text so I'm on their text chain. >> So about 15 minutes after it happened they sent out an alert that said a single shot was fired on campus toward a visiting speaker. And then about an hour after that, they they sent out the campus closed alert. And uh I think it should have been quicker. Personally, I I'm I'm shocked it took that long to kind of send that out. >> Yeah. And we have, you know, as we've been standing here, heard some sporadic sirens of of you know, we're not sure if they're police, if they're um you know, EMS officials, but we have heard some sporadic uh sirens. This is about as close as we can get to the campus, but you know, and we'll go ahead and show you again as as we continue talking to these folks that, you know, this is gridlocked. There is no getting out of this parking lot soon, is there? >> Oh, no. It'll I mean, it's bad enough on regular days. Um, on a day like this, it would it will probably take us several hours to get our cars out of here, >> if that. >> I hope I can go home and sleep tonight. >> Yeah, we'll probably be sleeping in the building. >> You can see all over your back where we got down like >> Oh, wow. Yeah, you totally can. >> Yeah, you so you hit the ground really really quickly. So you you just essentially got down and you said he got on top of you to protect >> got on top of me and then he got behind me. They were protecting me >> which I I mean when you're in a situation you don't know how you're going to react and honestly I froze. So I'm so glad that they took care of me and they just we're running. They just had their arms around me. And >> did you just think of that instantly? Was that a a knee-jerk reaction or did you have to think about that in the moment? >> Honestly, it was just kind of natural reaction like this is my sister. I love her very much and I won't let anything happened to her. >> Absolutely. Same question. >> Yeah. I mean, I originally got down. I try to get back behind the wall cuz, you know, there was like a ledge where I was sitting and I figured they wouldn't be able to shoot there. So, I get down there and then I see my best friend and his sister down and crying. So, I just I went over and got on top of them. you know, it's I love them and, you know, I didn't want anything to happen to them either. >> Yeah. So, let me ask you about the Did you see the shooter? And um from what we're kind of seeing from from videos, it seems like it was a very dynamic situation once everything happened, did you see anything? Did you see an official um you know, rush to some sort of shooter? >> You know, it was really quick. We couldn't really see anything because it was from behind us, but we did see Charlie get shot and he fell back and I was still looking. I I saw some of his guys come and pull him and they went and hit him. That's what I saw. And but I didn't see anything about the shooter. Did you? >> No, I did see something on social media. An older guy while we were sitting in the car. Not sure who it was. Maybe a professor. Definitely didn't look like a student, but it's an older guy. Bald, white hair. It's all I know about it. >> All right. Well, thank you all. I appreciate you. Get home safe. We're glad you all are safe. Um, I want to kind of if we can direct the camera over this way, you could see Oram police is actually going through the parking lot. We're not sure what's going on here, but individuals, in fact, just moments ago. We weren't really able to see any police officials uh in the area of where we are right now until maybe uh about two to three minutes ago. In fact, if my partner behind the camera, Aaron Kimble, can show. Um that's kind of how far away we are from where police are. This is pretty much as close as we can get um to the campuses. We know the campus is closed. Um we have several individuals, you know, here in in cars. Um would you mind real quick if I asked you, you know, what did you see out there and uh what has your experience been? >> Uh when it happened, I was in class in a classroom and everything was fine. I just got a text from one of my friends saying, "There's a shooter. Get out. out of the building. No, I didn't really know if that was true, but I just could hear students running through the hallway, classrooms, getting out. So, a student in my class raises her hand and says, "Um, can I leave? I think there's a shooter on campus." And so, my teacher dismisses everyone. And so, we I just see through the windows students pouring out of the building. So, I just try to get to my car as fast as I can. And I been calling family members and just telling them that I'm okay and I just feel terrible like something like this should never happen and prayers go out to Charlie Kirk and his family. >> What's your reaction to this happening in Utah? You said, you know, that your hope is that this would never happen anywhere, let alone here. What's your reaction to it happening at your campus? >> I never believe something like this would happen. I think I like to think that Utah is a very safe space, a safe um state, especially with um like the religious faith. I think everyone kind of just agrees on the same thing. So I this is like very shocking. I think from what I've heard that Charlie Kirk has gotten a lot of hate from this state specifically. So I think that this is just very shocking. and crazy and unbelievable that it would happen at my own school. >> Absolutely. And you've been sitting here for I mean as long as we've been here, it's been about half an hour. There's no sign of movement, right? >> Yeah, I've been sitting here for half an hour more and I've probably moved a couple feet. I don't know how long I'll be here for, but I really just want to go home. >> Yeah, absolutely. Well, we're glad to be safe. Hope you get home safe. Thank you so much for talking to us. So, that is essentially what's going on here at UVU. I'm just kind of checking my surroundings to see uh if there's anything else to point out as this is a hugely dynamic scene, Max and Robin. Um, a lot of people very very shaken up by this event. We just heard from those individuals uh that were second row um and could see everything that happened. um you know those individuals actually covering um fellow family members, loved ones to protect them from what was happening as this was an incredibly incredibly scary situation here on the campus of Utah Valley University. We don't know yet what exactly has transpired, but we're going to stay here. We're going to find out the latest. We're going to be wherever we can to be to get that information as soon as possible. But for now, I'm going to go ahead and toss it back to you. >> All right, >> Spencer, thank you so much. >> Thank you for that. And uh again, to recap, Utah Valley University at about um what did I say? 12:27, 12:25, one shot. Charlie Kirk speaking to hundreds, perhaps thousands of people at an amphitheater uh in at UVU. That shot did hit him. And we've heard from several witnesses now on the air who have said one said the neck, >> several have said the chest, right? >> Um and so it doesn't sound good, but a whole lot of our folks have have scrambled there to UVU. >> Absolutely. Including Ben Winslow who has been there. Uh Ben, we heard from you a little bit earlier with some witnesses. I hear you have some more. >> That's right. Yeah, you can see behind me um obviously the entrance to Utah Valley University still a large very large police presence. A a few people who were there and saw what happened are are joining me. Um your name? >> Angie Martin. >> And yours, sir? >> Darren Brunson. >> And and what did you see? >> So I went towards the doors and heard a crack. Because of my past experience in law enforcement, I knew it was a gun. And then I tucked behind the corner and all the crowds started racing out. And I after I saw the picture of who it was, I recognized him as to be George Zim, which I know him from Turning Point USA from last year when we went down and bust down to Arizona help on the Trump campaign. >> So he was on the trip with you? >> Yes. On the bus. >> And that's the person you say you saw taken into custody? >> That's what it appeared to be. I um from a distance it appeared to be him which I had some bad vibes about him when I was on the bus with him and even text several people saying he was making me feel very uncomfortable. >> You sir, what did you see? >> Okay. Yeah, I was there and I watched the shooting. It looked like that uh he got hit. A direct shot right to the heart. As soon as he was hit, he fell backwards, went to the side. The audience went to their knees. I stayed up a little bit because I wanted to see if anyone saw the shooting, if they would jump all over the guy. I saw nothing like that. The crowd was pushing me, pushed me so that I went backstage and they were going around me and I stayed a little bit backstage and I turned and looked and they were arresting a guy by the name of George Zim. Yeah, I know the guy. I don't think he did it. I think they arrested the wrong guy. I think whoever did it was a good shooter, a sharp shooter. It was one shot right directly to the heart and we need to find out who did this. I think there should be a research completely done that take that took place hours maybe a day before anything went on who could be there and pull that trigger and do it and I don't think it was George Zim he was poor broke he maybe was on medication a little bit looney boon maybe a perfect person to pick and say that did it but I don't think he did it at all >> so at this point but did you see him taken into custody did you see him with any kind of thing in his hand any device in his hand or anything like that >> yeah I saw when they when they actually put the handcuffs behind his back I followed him when they took him to the trooper car and when he was nailing down and I was just thinking he was very calm, very, you know, whatever they wanted to do, he just went right along with whatever they doing. >> But you didn't see anything in his hand or anything like that, did you? >> No, I did not. >> Gotcha. Uh, what was the crowd's reaction when you when this happened? Can you just describe what what happened? You said you were just walking into the area and then this this happened. Well, when I knew it was a gunshot, tucked behind the corner and then I saw all the crowd running as fast as I could and I was worried about people trampling each other and I saw two girls, two college age girls that were one was having a panic attack. So, I grabbed both of them because she was collapsing and and rushed her down underneath the tunnel and got her to calm down then put her in my car and got her pulled of her parents. I think it's very suspect that he was talking about guns right when he was shot. That that just didn't add up. It's almost felt like that the person that was asking the questions about gun knew it was going to happen. >> I hope they I hope they grab him too and question. >> Thank you both very much. And we'll send it back to you. >> All right, Ben. Thank you. And and we want to be very careful, >> right? >> Uh we don't know who did this. We still don't know for sure exactly what happened. Uh what we do believe that Charlie Kirk was shot and uh probably shot in the chest from all reports that we're getting. Uh we have heard reports on social media um about who may have done it but that is not something that we are reporting or something that we will report until we get any kind of uh confirmation of that because that's not you don't throw out accusations like that without knowing uh for sure that they're backed up. we don't have we don't have a name and you know and just because someone is taken into custody in any case like this doesn't >> always mean that they are the suspect. So you know again there's many videos out there on social media but you can't just go by what what you're seeing >> posted there and the people we're speaking with are witnesses. >> Yeah. Yeah. and they're witnesses and they've and they've been through something traumatic and they all have their their own feelings. This is a political event and so they go with their um also with their political opinions and uh that's what can make something like this even more scary than it already is is the fact that it can inflame those kinds of tensions. That's not the business we're in. We're in the business of informing and uh we have uh one of our our best people to do that at the scene, Bob Evans, uh who doesn't live too far from Utah Valley University, so who raced there as quickly as he could when you heard this had happened. Uh Bob, what can you tell us? And I understand you're there with some folks. >> Yeah, actually, Max, I am. Uh we got word of this shooting from our son who was uh at the event. Uh he goes to school here at UVU and uh uh called and said that there was an active shooter situation down. Of course uh the response at our house was somewhat uh excited and uh uh upset and uh understandably so. As parents, we worry about our kids who come to college campuses to learn. One of those parents is uh Dave, who was down here uh to pick up your son. Dave, where are you from? >> South Jordan. >> And tell me what you were doing down here. >> Uh I'm was actually up at work working work Murray and uh my son called me and told me there was an active suitor situation, so I just grabbed my stuff and headed this way. >> Now you're on a motorcycle. >> Yep. On a motorcycle. So >> yeah, >> going to have to zip through traffic and find him. So, he's on his way to meet me right now. >> Tell me what went through your heart when you heard active shooter where your son was. >> It's like, well, here we go. Doesn't surprise me. Stuff's happening way too much. >> Did it worry you at all? >> 100% worried. >> Um, but you know, I just had to get down here as fast I could. So, here I am. >> Yeah. And so, what's going to happen with you and your son? >> Probably just take him home and just have a, you know, just get through the rest of the day. >> Yeah. We understand the classes have been cancelled for the rest of the day and that they are clearing the campus. Now, also who was passing by is another David. Yeah. Come stand right here if you would, David, and tell us what uh what you were doing here and what what happened. What was your experience? >> I was just just behind the lights trying to make a right and all of a sudden on on marked police just stopped us. Right after that we saw 30 40 police cars just coming through and I said probably something really bad happened. This doesn't happen in normal day in America. So unless is really something terrible happened. So and a few minutes later I just called my buddy in Phoenix and said hey do you know uh do you know what's going on? Something happened here. He says they just uh shot Charlie K. I said why? The guy just speaking his mind when when that happened in US you cannot just kind of speak your mind anymore. This is so sad for seeing this is happening. You can't speak your mind. You can't really have a freedom of anything. Seems like they want to control you. So I moved to this country 25 years ago because of all the freedom US you know >> where did you come from? I >> I'm originally Persian lived in Europe for long long a few years and then I moved to US and we all love this country. No matter where you are from, whatever you know, wherever you're coming from, this is a land of opportunity. This is a land people they come in to just to speak their mind and practice the religion, do whatever whatever their rights is. So, and is so sad to see one portion of the people trying to control the other portion of people and and this supposed to kind of come down. It's supposed to stop all these people on the news and everywhere else. They're just kind of talking crap all day long. >> Okay, David. Um, will you uh Mike get this? Here's Dave's son. David, can we talk to him for just a second? No. Okay, that's just fine. That's just fine. So to finish our conversation, David, uh, uh, what do you see as a solution to the violence that we're seeing? I >> I think I think really some of these people, they go online and write all kinds of hate speech and really talking about either or group so bad, they got to slow down. They all contribute to this. So if people they really kind of notch it down and they start just kind of being really uh nice to each other. I don't think that's supposed to ever happen. You're supposed to be able to speak your mind. You're supposed to really practice what your religion is. >> And as long as you're obeying the law, you're supposed to have a right to live and just kind of practice your rights. >> Yeah. >> And this is so sad that you see >> one group of people, they they try to just kind of control the other group. That's sad. That that's just a sad. >> David, thank you so much for talking with us. I appreciate it very much. Uh as we are watching the other David and his son, in fact, let me just turn this way. Uh David and his son will be headed back to West Jordan. Uh his son actually was in class when he uh uh and had taken a picture. His dad said he took a picture uh and uh on his way to class before the shooting took place and uh just to kind of see what was going on. And then word came that the shooting had taken place. Uh this is a very difficult day. The police have got uh UVU completely cordoned off. You can't get on campus. They are going uh through the campus. Now we understand reportedly they are going through each building and clearing each uh room so that whatever uh danger may still exist. We don't know that it does but uh they are doing due diligence and making sure the campus is secure and uh classes are cancelled for the rest of the day. Uh Max, we'll toss it back to you from down here in Nor. Hey, uh, thank you, Bob. And to reiterate what Bob just said, we have seen the alert that UVU sent out that classes are officially canceled for the day. And obviously, the premises have all been closed off while the police and other authorities perform >> their investigation and whatever else needs to be done to make sure that everyone is safe. So, if you were planning on going to campus today or know someone who was, tell them not to because campus is officially closed. >> Yeah. And uh this is uh Bob Bob got the call that I got. >> That's right. >> And that uh Utah Valley University is the biggest college in the state in terms of student population of undergraduate population. That's right. Uh it is those roads are a mess on any given day that classes are in session. Um and so there are thousands of young people on that campus who made that call to their parents. It's not a call parents uh like to get. I certainly didn't. Um, and it's also something where you want to tell your kids >> things can be better than this because you have these young folks, >> they've grown up in an era where they where they see this so much, right? >> And it's not about left or right. It is it's uh >> um it's it's about polarization and people not seeing the humanity in each other. >> Um but we we have uh other crews on scene here. >> That's right. We heard from Spencer Joseph earlier. He talked to some students there that were pretty shaken ups. Uh Spencer, it looks like you have found some more witnesses. >> It sounds like >> waiting for Spencer's mic to come up. We will work on that. >> Oh, Spencer, I think solved the problem. >> Good. Now, that my apologies. That was my technical problem. Um, I I want to get to the individuals behind me because you had a little bit different perspective from those that we talked to before. You were up high and were kind of able to see everything that happened. So, describe what you saw uh to our viewers. >> Just from the very Yes. Like that very top step of everything. We were like the second PE. We were behind like one like layer of people, I guess you could say, with that. But like right where I was, it was shorter people below us. Like I just had like straight like direct shot down to the table and he was just sitting back and he was just like just listening to a question. He wasn't even speaking himself. It was at the very start of a question. He hadn't even responded to anything yet. And he was just sitting there and Yeah. And then out of nowhere, you just saw cotton fly off his shirt and everything back in his chair and then seconds later just like spurting splirting. It was It was Yeah. Not seconds. Yeah. But like following that I just Yeah. >> What was the reaction of the crowd at that? >> Immediately everybody just trampled all over everyone, you know? Like it was it was really sad. Like I saw this girl on the floor. People were just stepping on her because everyone was just trying to get out of there. Like as soon as it happened, like I had to make sure I saw these guys and you know, >> yeah, >> grab their hands. But >> everyone just like if you look in the buildings, people trampled, they brought dirt inside. I saw like people left their shoes, left their bags, their backpacks. Everyone just wanted to get away from that horrific site. >> You were saying you had a little bit different perspective than they did. >> Yeah. So, uh, if you picture like a semiircle and Charlie's in the middle, I was on, if you're facing him, I was on the left side. So, I kind of had like a profile view of him and I wasn't really watching him very well because I was on the phone with my roommate trying to find her, but I like turned towards him and then I just heard the shot and I and I looked and I just saw him. It slumped in his chair and Yeah. And yeah, pretty much that was it. And then what was your perspective? Were you together? Were you close together? >> I was with you three were together. >> I was with a different friend and she's not here right now. Um because we got separated. But just when the shot went off, I remember everyone just yelling like, "Get down, get down, run, run." And I just like fell. I'm like all scraped up. I fell down and I was just like scrambling up because there's like big concrete like steps with grass, right? So I was just like scrambling up the steps. um just trying to get inside, but I was I was afraid to run because I didn't know where the shooter was, so I didn't want to run towards them. But yeah, we're all safe. So, >> thank goodness you're all safe. Now, tell me about kind of your reaction, especing on the campus here at UVU. Um this is obviously we're very safe area. We just heard it. This is the um largest campus in Utah in terms of undergraduate um population. And so there's a lot of people here right now. But tell me kind of your reaction to this happening here as Charlie Kirk has been to thousands of campuses before this hasn't happened. >> That's what we were all kind once we were all like inside and we were all like around other like in big groups of people like inside. We were all kind of like it just was a shock to us that it was this campus out of any with that especially with how >> it's all locals and it's been Yeah. He's been to a thousand other campuses and it was this one specifically and it kind of just I don't know it threw no it wasn't expected in the slightest. >> Now and we were talking right before this and I think we've heard this a couple of times. He was answering a question or no he was listening to someone talk in a question about >> Yeah. He hadn't even responded and then in a sense even like he wasn't like at that point he wasn't even like riing up a crowd or anything. It was it came out of nowhere. the the whole um event probably we weren't even we were like 15 20 minutes in. It was only the second the second question and he the topic was mass shootings and so like it's such a shock when you hear that noise and you and you see that happen. I thought it was like I couldn't believe it. I thought it was a sick joke or something because of what we were talking about and then like reality hits you that fast and all of a sudden you're like this is real like here in Oramm Utah where you know this is considered generally safe you know and I mean Utah a lot of people here like >> I don't know >> like yeah like we think you know we don't even see that sort of thing living here we haven't even been exposed to that thing we shouldn't be >> you shouldn't be yeah >> um I want to kind of as my partner behind the camera kind of shows a little bit of the view right before we went live this building to kind of the off to the right of us here. Um we