Okay everybody, this conversation is quite interesting. Uh it is where I sat down with Bill Maher at Club Random on his program. Let me first say uh Bill treated me great. Uh it was quite the conversation and he was very pleasant albeit at times rather crude but very respectful. I do want to make sure you understand some of the uh let's just say environment around this conversation. So, you will see in this video that Bill is smoking something. So, just so you know, I don't like cigarettes. I don't like cigar smoke. And I certainly don't like marijuana smoke. Sometimes if you're a football player, you got to play in the snow. Sometimes if you're a baseball player, you have to play in the wind and the rain. Sometimes if you're a political commentator fighting for Jesus and fighting for liberty and fighting for America, you got to play in the weed. And so we talk about a lot of different stuff throughout this conversation. I'm going to break this up and tell you at certain moments I feel as if I should have injected myself more. Some points that I wish I would have made and honestly some points that I think I did pretty well at. And so throughout this conversation with Bill Maher, I'm going to kind of interject and show you that, ooh, I wish I would have made this point about the resurrection, or I wish I would have said this about President Trump, or I wish I would have said this about Jesus Christ, or I wish I would have said XYZ. And you'll see that. So, here it is. And just so you also know, there was no really introduction. They didn't even tell me that we were rolling. I was just sitting there on set and Bill Maher appears and the podcast begins. So, here it is, my appearance on Club Random, and this might be the first of many conversations with Bill Maher. Enjoy. So, you don't think any people are like born quote unquote in the wrong body? No, I I don't agree. I think people might think they are. There's a book of the Bible I think you'd love. What? Song of Solomon. Song of Solomon. Cross Souls and Nash. Song of Solomon's all about sex. Random Charlie Kirk here. I am here. Kirk reporting for duty. That's what they call me. How are you? Nice to meet you. Thanks for having us. Us. Well, arguing or me. Is there someone with you? No. Thanks for having me. You're not expecting trouble, are you? Not quite. Any trouble with security? Unfortunately. You do? Yeah. Wow. Like what kind? You know, security? like bodyguards. You know, when I went to Europe in 2015, I had like three I had two Israeli bodyguards and my security person. It was right after the uh one of the Islamic uh unfortunate incidents. Was it the Paris? There was two there was two big things at that time. Paris, right? The the What year was this? 2015. Okay. So, that would have been the Charlie Hebdo situation. headbo certainly was the year before calling I think and then the tolerant Muslim you know and you know I've been very you've been extraordinary on that thank you um so like we were like extraordinary to you but we were like very and like I pictured this there's I never toured Europe before as a comic you know and there are places you can they speak English it was fun but it also made it a vacation I took my girl I was with at the time I pictured this bucolic beautiful European in springtime vac. Of course, it was wedged between the two giant Israeli bodyguards the whole way. If you want security, the Israelis know what they're doing. Exactly. So, it was not the vacation I I I planned, but uh Well, I'm sorry that you have to do that, but that's the price of fame. And boy, you're you I mean, man, you're everywhere. You're the new it boy podcast. No, it's true. We we have different jihadis that want to kill me. The purple-haired jihadis, the the woke guys. Well, they want they kill me. They want to kill me just as bad probably. Oh, they really do. No, you you've been very outspoken on the woke stuff big time. Oh, yes. I mean, and and they just the way within a religion, they hate their own apostates more. I would say they hate me more because I'm supposed to like get on the short bus to crazy town with them and I won't. And yet I'm still a liberal and still like you know I mean we probably could argue all day about Donald Trump and what he's doing which I'm not down with. But you know uh the it's always the people who are closest who think oh gosh you shouldn't have you're a traitor somehow if we don't go. Is it because they thought you were one of them and that I am one of them. They're not one of me. I'm okay. It's the liberals of two of So they've left you, not you left. Well, I I feel like there's liberal and woke are two completely different things. It was a theme of my last standup special that I just did a few months ago and it's basically I mean it wasn't the whole special of course, but it was a large part of it devoted to that to proving that case that you know what liberals believe woke is something completely different. It's very often the opposite of it. You know, liberalism is let's live in a colorblind society. That's the goal. Woke's goal is we see race everywhere and obsession. Yes. Okay. So, that's not liberal. You you changed. Liberal is there a two-state solution. Woke is river to the sea. Okay. Those are so just don't take my word and say you're that. You took this and took it to you got off the F train, you fell asleep, and you got all the 20 stops too far. And don't blame me for that. Okay. And so then we dive into, of course, the topic of weed and alcohol. And I want to reiterate, I was a guest on his show. I did not want to come across as overly aggressive. I honestly wanted to get to know Bill Maher. Thought he's done a great job speaking out against the woke. He's a rare free speech liberal despite our firm disagreements on many things, political and spiritual. And so here we have a discussion about marijuana and alcohol. And the point I so badly wanted to make, but I decided not to because in the spirit of being polite is that his perspective is like, hey, why can't I do weed if it doesn't impact somebody else? The irony is that it kind of was impacting me cuz I had to smell him doing weed there. But I decided not to make that point in the pursuit of being polite and trying to be magnanimous. Albeit, look, there's so much about marijuana that does not get discussed. It could be really, really bad for your brain. It could be increased depression, increase anxiety, a lot of problems with it. But hey, if that's what you want to do, then that's what you want to do. I will say though, it kind of invalidates one's argument if you say it's not impacting somebody else while you're smoking weed basically right next to somebody. Watch. I don't know how they get in my group, but they do. And um so I've been to sometimes parties like the Hollywood parties. And this is probably not most of America exactly this way, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's that different. And first of all, in this town, it's all run by like the Nepo babies. The Nepo babies, the trust fund kids is all these little 22-year-old. The JB Pritzker types. Well, I'm kid. No, no, I'm sure I I know who you mean. The governor of Illinois. She inherited the Hyatt. Oh, sure. You know that baby. We we've invented Nepo baby out here. Okay. But yes, it's everywhere now. Even on the Lakers. Um, hey, that that's that's real privilege there. You know, you got some privilege if you can get Well, okay. I don't want I I want LeBron mad at me like he is at uh my friend Stephen A. But I mean that is I you know but uh the point is that when you go out to these I've been to these parties where like it's a bunch of 22-year-old kids and none of them are smoking pot. Why? They're on real drugs. Pot's so like my generation. It's like I couldn't find pot at one of these parties. I was the only they were asking me for it. The few kids that want they're all they take this this they've got psychedelics mushrooms LSD. Okay. Oh, ketamine, whatever. Ketamine that that has some medicinal property, but not at a party anymore. They're all It's all ingested before they even leave the house. So, that's where the good news parents, your kids aren't on pot. Yeah. But they're they're on way worse. I think they're on a big big trip. So, but do you think that since we've legalized less teenagers are doing like 13, 14, 15 year olds? Because that was always the argument, right? If we legalize it, less kids would do it. I don't know what 14y olds are doing. No, I don't know the answer. I just that's my story and I'm sticking to it. But we we can agree that kids should agree on totally. But we also should be able to agree that we shouldn't uh force adults to organize their lives around what kids might get into. That's a good argument. I mean, do you think that it's I mean, you're not against porn, are you? Well, I actually once struggled with porn. Thankfully, I'm free of that. But I mean, how can you struggle with it? I mean, so easy. Well, you could you could grow addicted to it. I mean, it can. I know. I was kidding. No, but no. I mean, yeah, I don't have that that issue anymore, thankfully. But I would I would ask the question, though, like, do you think since the legalization of marijuana in LA, it's made it a better or worse place to live, or just it hasn't changed at all? It certainly hasn't changed my life. Okay. I grow it right outside here. Do you think this Do you think the quality of life has gone up or down? Well, I I don't know. But that's not really the relevant question, is it? Even if there is a dilitterious effect, there is too many things we do and we would not use that as a reason to prescribe our basic freedoms. Should people I mean be able to do drugs. Should people outside like on the street or No, definitely not on the street. Okay. So, so there are some limits. Of course, there are limits. Yes. and maybe of certain drugs or certain drugs should be by prescription uh as we do with with pharmaceutical drugs, you know, but based but certainly pot is more as more benign than alcohol. I mean, I could give you the stats on that. We all know that. Um is is it health food? No. I I I'm not crazy like some of my hippie friends are compla trying to portray it as something that's actually good for your lungs, but I I don't think it's well, it's a trade-off. When you're an adult, you have the right to make tradeoffs. Tradeoffs is this is the is the essence of life. I'm going to have this piece of cake tonight and be a little fatter tomorrow or I'm not going to do that and feel better tomorrow. And we all make those choices on a daily basis with everything. Yes. Have I probably cut off some years of my life. Maybe with pot. Who knows? I may have increased them because it helped me. Uh it made me certainly made me richer. It made me better at my job, better at writing, better at a lot of things I like to do. So, you know, I might be living in a two-bedroom apartment in Van NY if it wasn't for probably going to live longer here. or who knows how successful you could have been without it. That's true, too. That is true, too. Do you Do you think there's any merit to the argument that the pot is has more THC and is more intense than it was 30, 40 years ago? It's so I don't know. I I hear these things and Oh, I hear those things, too. And I'm I'm sure that's true because once it became as commercialized as it has, of course, you're going you're going to try to maximize the potency of it. um just because the customer comes back just like a restaurant is not interested in your health. They're interested in making the food selling more product as delicious as they can come back to that restaurant. So, but it's so hard for me to tell you because I've been smoking for 50 years and I'm different. Who knows what I was thinking? I mean, I remember when I first smoked, we would just sit in the car and laugh at nothing for an hour. That doesn't happen anymore. So, I'm my guess is the pot is stronger, but my resistance is weaker. Okay. Uh anyway, it's you know, I I'm People think I'm some sort of giant pthead. I've always been very circumspect about my pot smoking. I mean, I don't smoke every day. Um the most I smoke is right here once a week. I I like to be in party mode when I'm with someone I'm getting to know. I I This is one of the joys of my life. Mhm. Um, and you know, I understand that it doesn't connect with some people or makes some people paranoid or something, but other people it's just I mean, you know, some people like a scotch and some people like blah blah blah and some people like complete sobriety. If if that's your if that's your thing, that's fine. But to me, the most interesting place I can ever travel is inside my own mind. And drugs do help you get there. Is there do you think all all hard drugs should be illegal? Like heroin? Illegal? No. I mean, well, heroin, is there any uses for it? I mean, like for what San Francisco did, they they pseudo legalized it, right? I mean, they said, "Hey, we're going to have make it easier for you to do heroin." No, we shouldn't make it easier. That's crazy. They had drug injection sites basically, right? So, no, I know, but that's that was a public policy position of Seattle, Portland, and San Francisco. That's the lowlying fruit for you right now. No, that's right. That's a question. No, but but isn't it I want to create it's the lowlying fruit who it's like no sure it's a right boundary. I want to create a boundary and you're right, you know, I mean again I'm I'm for picking that fruit, too. It's silly to help drug addicts be drug addicts and keep them on the street. It's stupid to keep homeless on the street. Oh, I totally agree. As another another way liberals are different than the woke. The liberal thing for forever was for compassion's sake, get them off the street. That's not the woke version. Their version is they're an endangered species. Don't touch them in their natural habitat living under repress. Let them defecate. Let them do whatever they want. It's their thing. And you know, I mean, there should be nothing more basic than a government claiming the streets. The streets are for the citizens. They're it's not to live in. Build a barracks. I mean, why are these things Maybe you can answer that. Why are these kind of things so difficult that you think such common sense? Build a barracks. I know homeless people say they don't want to live there. You don't have a choice. Oh, we'll get robbed there. Higher security. It's pennies on the dollar. Why? Why is it so difficult? I feel like I with no real knowledge of this field could do it. Could just if I had people who would carry out my I would say, "Okay, get me specs. I want to see what where a place we could build it. I want to see what the barracks looks like. I want to see who works there. Is it really?" And the toilets, whatever. And somebody must be a Mitt Romney, somebody who did the Olympics, somebody who could come in and we know how to clean up the streets. I mean, Gavin Newsome cleaned up the streets of San Francisco and Gi Ping showed up. I mean, it's just an act of the will. They they don't want to do it, right? Like when they get the horrors off the street when when the mayor is like doing one of those cleanup uh or like when the MLB All-Star game goes to Seattle, all of a sudden it's America's cleanest city, right? So, you're saying if we can do it that one day, I'm saying it's an act of the will. It's all that it is. And it look left woke I won't even say leftwing woke philosophy is they believe they don't really believe in private property and at its core why shouldn't someone be able to defecate on the side of the street who are you to judge well that's not woke yes maybe I'm saying woke not even liberal right I'm making that distinction which I think a fair distinction that's another reason another one we can add to the list of woke is not liberal is no and I think left versus liberal or woke versus liberal is an important distinction I will say what makes you different is few liberals stand up to the woke. That is ve few liberals are willing to stand up to woke. Absolutely. And few conservatives stand up to Trump. Fair enough. I mean, you can stand up or disagree, but I guess you could say the question is Trump. Woke is an ideology. Is Trump an ideology? I mean, he's a person. MAGA is an ideology. But I mean, we can I disagree with Trump on a lot of stuff. I mean, I don't think we should go to war with Iran. I think that'd be a big mistake. I've talked about Patriot Mobile's commitment to faith, family, and freedom. Have you made the switch yet? Support your values with your cell phone without sacrificing quality or service. Are you worried about coverage? Don't be. Patriot Mobile uses all three major US networks. If you have a cell phone service today, you can get service with Patriot Mobile. Do you think switching is hard? It's not. Their 100% US-based customer service team can activate you in minutes. They even have a contract buyout. So go to patriotmobile.com/kirk25 or call 972 patatriot. Use promo code kirk25 for a free month of service. And then we switched our conversation to the Maryland dad. Now mind you, since I sat down with Bill Maher, a lot has happened regarding Mr. Garcia. We have learned that he has MS-13 tattoos on his knuckles. We have learned that he was not too kind to his wife. I believe I mentioned it in this conversation, but it has been even more emphasized in court documents. And so I decided to kind of hear Bill out here, but just to be clear, no US citizen is being disappeared. This was a return of an illegal occupier back to his country of origin, back to where he came from. And again, we have learned a lot since this episode was recorded. So, I just want to emphasize that this individual Garcia, Mr. Garcia, is back in the country where he was born and where he is actually a citizen. We did not take an El Salvadorian and send him to Brazil. We did not take an El Salvadorian and send him to the Congo. We sent him back to his own country. He's not in a foreign prison. In fact, he looked rather healthy to me when the senator sat down with him. So, I think Bill was a little bit off here, but in the spirit of allowing the conversation to pick up some momentum, I didn't want to be too disagreeable. I was trying to interject some facts. And again, you have to weigh these things when you're a guest on somebody's program. Do you want to just be overly disagreeable on every single point? You want to try to have the conversation gain some momentum? You want to try to have some you want to try to have the conversation get get some flight to get off get off the tracks a little bit or else you're just going to be disputing every micro point and then there really isn't much much worth to that type of a conversation. Watch. Also, when you get to we're going to send homegrown American citizens to foreign prisons. Oh, so the thing he said you mean homegrown to to Boulli Americans? No. And if he were to do that, I wouldn't support it. Great. But I don't I think that is a oneliner that he gave to Boulli. I think that is You met the man. Yes. I Do you think he actually believes that like he would do that? It's worse if he does or would. It's still horrible that an American president would say that. Look me in the eye and tell me if Obama had said that what your reaction would be. wouldn't wouldn't like it. Wouldn't like it. I think it would be a little more vitriolic than that. I I we we would be we'd be apoplelectic. Okay. I'm just I'm finding out how honest you are, Charlie. And so far, you I think you're doing good. And I hope I'm doing good with you because if we don't have the honesty, we can't really, you know, look, but to be to also to be fair to the whole, you know, topic in general, the outrage around deportations, as we've seen, you know, this these last couple of, you know, last couple of weeks is like the American people voted for it. It's perfectly legal. Well, they didn't vote for they did vote for people without any I mean the So, you mean that Maryland case is what you're talking about, right? the guy who they're trying who they MS-13 member well there's no evidence that he's they don't they did not present evidence I mean I don't really want to get into the weeds on this one because I got to do it on my show Friday but and but the Supreme Court I guess we have to get into the weeds there you know there is there's there's even new evidence in the last couple of hours that I don't you you you you you lead the conversation. You tell me how deep you want to go on it. Uh none. Okay. I mean, but uh I hope that if it if it comes to light, let put let me button it up this way. I hope that if it does come to light that there really is no evidence that this guy was a gang member that he got swept up, which is very understandable that when you do a sweep, when you're doing big things, yes, there's nothing is going to go perfect. But if it does come to light, I would hope that some Republicans have the spine to say, "Yeah, that's not right. That this guy should not be there." I mean, the Bill of Rights, it's pretty clear that you can't just disappear people without any sort of trial. Well, uh, but sorry to interrupt you. And and and deportation is is not the same thing as sending someone to a prison, but you are allowed to deport under the Alien Inv Enemies Act, correct? Someone who is part of a a recognized terrorist organization, which MS-13 is okay. pretty close to a terrorist organization. Yeah. Okay. I mean, you know, you're you're bending all these words. He's not an American citizen. We got to acknowledge that. No, absolutely not. So, that's important. But he wasn't here illegally either. He was illegally. Yeah. The Maryland man. I as long as we're not talking about two different cases. We're talking about Garcia. Garcia. Yes. He was an illegal immigrant to the country. I thought he was waiting for asylum. Okay. You could be illegal waiting for asylum. I see. So, we Okay. So, they could deport him. That's right. Yes. But we never did it. But to a prison, it's an edge case. I acknowledge it's on the edge. Okay, good. No, but the edge is so there's three ways you can deport people. Could be the alien enemies act of 1798. It can be exped only three times. That's fine. But hey, look, you quote the first amendment all the time. That's from 1787, right? So old things are are important. I'm just saying just because but that's been used that's been used more than three times. Fair enough. But just because things are old doesn't mean, and I'm not saying you're using that talking point, but some people are trying to invalidate it just because it's old. It's also expedited release. They're trying to invalidate because it doesn't really apply to this that it's stretching. I mean, how is MS-13 not a terrorist organization? I mean, yeah, you can. Yeah, you can make that or trend aragua. I mean, well, organizing because terrorism really is a political movement. It's it's it's to it's the it means terrorizing the civilian population to achieve a political goal. These guys just want to grab your locket. You know, this is more than that. Oh, a lot more than that. Look, I said that uh all this stuff I don't like about Trump. I did it in my piece the other week when I was talking about the meeting at the White House that no, he was tweeting about me. I've never liked anything. No, check the tape. There are things I like. And one thing I liked was that the police are have their morale back maybe now. And you know, when you live in a city, it's not a good thing when the police lose their morale because they feel like they've been painted with a broad brush, which they were after 2020, you know, and they're like, "Okay." Yeah. And I've been very critical of the cops when I think they did bad things. But do I think this is it's a racist, you know, attack squad? It's not. There's issues. There's always issues in everything big organizations. And you know, when when you insult the cops, they have a way of kind of brooding about it. And it's just not a good place to be in when you're when you're a city dweller. And so, you know, I don't want to be killed by a gang member because they do random killings, you know, just to as gang initiation so they can get the teardrop under their eye. Okay. I I don't want to be someone's teardrop tattoo, you know, rando out to dinner. So, I get it. You know, I I mean, these are the things that lost the Democrats the election 100%. You know, you got to take care of this I was just And there's real Americans that die. I mean, Rachel Morren, Lake and Riley, there's real I mean, Joselyn, um, well, probably not at greater rates than are killed by regular Americans. That's debated, but let's just put that aside. They shouldn't be here. And so, none of those murders should happen, right? And so, anyway, back to the core question. Does the president have the ability to remove illegals that have come here under an enemy gang? Of course, he does. Yeah, he has he has the power given to him by that law. So then we kind of break apart a little bit where he wants to play Larry King. We'll watch us a little bit just as a reminder. Started in the suburbs of Chicago, Turning Point USA has grown into this miraculous amazing organization. Thank you for all who support it. Watch this short little thing and then we get into the meat of the conversation which is about Jesus and about religion. So this just a little bit about the origin story, me being married to my wonderful wife Erica having two kids and then the real fun starts. watch. So, you're 31. What's your background? I I I'm going to have to like Larry King this. You know what? Like Larry King used to just famously and I love Larry. I did a show a billion times. He was a legend. Yeah. I've never met him. And his thing was like, um, I don't prepare. I'm I'm like the regular guy who just wants to know. He's curious about this person, so I don't know. So, I ask the questions that this person would ask. you, Charlie Kirk. You're 31 years old. You're Jewish, right? No. Yeah, that's Muslim, actually. Um, you're married. Yes, sir. How long you been married? Um, it will be four years in May. Wow. And kids? Two kids? Yeah. Two kids already? Yeah. Oh, we got to work. Now, Charlie, it shouldn't be work. That's all I'm going to say. I'm kidding. I know. It's an enjoyable work day. It's um Okay, we got to the fun, I should say. and and and you're uh going to have more uh God willing. Yeah. God willing. Right. Okay. So, now this is where the conversation about religion started. As you know, I'm a devout Christian. Watching this back, there are a lot of points I wish I would have made. However, I look at the clip. I look at the tape and we had a friendly conversation and I didn't want to be overly disagreeable. With that being said, there are definitely some things that I should have inserted. Right. And you know, we don't see eye to eye on the religion thing. You know, someone told me that I got I got to tell you, you should see my movie Religion. I actually saw it. Oh, really? And to your credit, what you did on Islam was awesome. The other one's not so much. That's correct, buddy. Secondly, so if you just isolate the Islamic part, but it was funny. Secondly, to your credit, you treated woke like a religion. Yes. And you criticized them with the same intensity and ferocity you did. And that does you deserve a lot of credit for that. Thank you. No, I mean that because you looked at it as this has catechism. It has religious type undercurrence. It has almost a metaphysical presence to itself. And so you're you're an equal opportunity. Well, I mean, yeah. And it's funny because the director of Religulous, Larry Charles, and I had dinner about a year ago and I suggested and of course it went nowhere cuz we're both too old to like really act on it. But I said, "People keep asking me and I'm sure him also to do religionist too, but they when they say it, they think we're going to, oh, now we're going to go to India and make fun of the Hindus." I'm like, "I'm not doing that." Okay, I'm not going to India and the Hindus aren't that funny. Okay, we did it. We It was a The movie did great and we we love that it stands the test of time and people keep always keep coming up to me and seeing it. Movies are amazing that way. But I said, "Somebody gave me a great idea. Why don't we do religionist too, but the religion is wokeness? And then that's what I was suggested. And I said, "Yeah, but then you'd have to do the right side of it, too, because that's also a religion. Christian nationalism. I mean, come on. Your boys, some of the people I think you're uh fond of, they mix religion and politics in a way that I think is not according to the Constitution. But I have to tell you and give you a lot of credit. I saw a video of yours where you were talking about how Christy the original documents were, which is, you know, I mean, my view is that the founding fathers, we know a number of them were deists mostly that was their religion. But you did and you boy, you have your facts down. I mean, you can spiel when you get on a subject like that. Got the stick down. You'd really do. Um, and I trust you. You know, I'm going by what you, but you know that they were a little Christier than I thought. You know, and I'm always happy to learn new information. And if it doesn't satisfy people that I don't stay exactly where I am, it satisfies the people who are actually my fans who always want me to do that to be like, oh, if I take in new information. And I mean, that's why, you know, the the far-left hates me because I went to the White House and said, "Well, privately Trump's different and and good for you for saying that." Yeah. And I didn't give an inch on anything I believe. I confronted him on things that I think, you know, he maybe never hears from anybody else, but that's not good enough for them because, you know, they had to. But no, if you take in new information, just tell me. And so I do think after listening to your spiel that yes, they were a little more into Jesus than I thought. I mean, I know Jefferson wrote that Bible and took all he heavily edited it. Took all the miracles out. He took all the the religiosity out of it and just made him a a moral teacher, a moral philosopher. Now, you have to admit that's not exactly the act of a Christy person. No, but at least he acknowledged that there was something profound there. Got to give him credit for that. I could even acknowledge that. Okay, that's good. I'm glad to hear. Well, as a Jesus as a philosopher was a true revolutionary. I mean, when he said the meek shall inherit the earth, I think the response blessed are the peacemakers. Right. Yeah. But the idea that um it gets good in the next life was fairly I think revolutionary and the fact that you know if you're a good person in this life there's a much greater this is just the pregame. You want the afterparty and the afterparty is just going to be awesome. You're up there with me and my dad, God, and it's just, you know, what do you think create would create a better society or better action? People that think that there isn't there is an afterlife based on how you act or people that think there isn't one. That's a great question because it certainly can turn people either way. It can make you fly planes into a building. I'm not speaking of any specific example. I I can't think of anything. I can't either, but it can make you do that. You'll admit that. Sure. It could also make you do like blow up Oklahoma City too. Yes. And it can also and it all and I fully acknowledge that it also keeps millions of people in line like Mark Wahberg. I'm guessing without Catholicism. He just looks like a guy who would be in a lot more trouble. But I think it just has has made his life, you know, much more under control. Um, so, so there's one Mark Wahlberg I think really benefits from Catholicism and but I think there's lots of people like that. They just like they truly are worried that if they do something out of line, illegal or immoral that the devil will in short order after they die be poking them in the ass with a pitchfork. And so they don't do that and I got to give it up. That's a, you know, that is a positive. But then then the planes and the buildings thing. No. And that is on the extremes of you know of course I would I Islam has to defend itself. I won't you know I won't defend Islam. But do you do you are you at all worried that when a nation becomes too secular it might not know what it believes. There's no cultural cohesion. There's no glue that keeps it together. Yeah. But this isn't that nation. This isn't secular. This is a bunch of religious freaks. It's increasingly secular though. Well, thank you. I'm trying. No, but I I appreciate are quite the evangelist for your cause of no afterlife and no creator. It you know what it creeps up a little but people people always are going to want it. They want that people always are going to want to believe a story. It's much better than the truth which is that things are random. We don't know the big questions. We don't know how we got here. We don't know why we're here. We don't know how the universe started. We're alone in the universe. You know is there a god? What is the nature of God? Which one is the right god? We just don't. Nobody knows. I mean, that's why they call it faith. Do you hope you're wrong? That's that's the most important question. That's a great question. Um, well, how do you hope there's a heaven? I hope they figure out how I can live forever. I like it here with you, Charlie, drinking this and smoking pot. I'm having a great time. I really can't imagine it better. I mean, I can't. And maybe it is. I'm sure it is. I'm sure, you know, people have But but something in you probably hopes that I don't know. Yes. Hitler gets ultimate judgment or most evil things, right? Um something in you wants to see your loved ones. And I don't think about there's got to be a desire somewhere. A lot of people just think about Hitler a lot. I Well, I know, but I'm just saying Hitler comes up a lot. He just he really Fair enough. Let's that there is a a desire that there's some something beyond this. Well, that is just okay. Yes, that I do. But I mean, it's very hard to find that justice on earth. Ask an AIDS baby. Oh, don't Bill. That's why when you say, "Hey, I'm happy here." There's a lot of suffering on earth, too. And that's the It is. And some of that's the Christian argument. Some of it is is, you know, we we obviously can see it comes from no bad deed done, you know, child children with cancer. Of course, it's and it's it's and then they say, well, that's, you know, God works in mysterious ways, which is sort of a get out of jail card any kind of non admittedly, it's the hardest. We as Christians have to explain unjust suffering. Atheists have to explain everything else. How do you explain it? We don't. It's hard. It's a mystery. We can say God works in mysterious ways. We can say original sin. However, we don't have to explain creation or the miracle of life or love or justice or we we don't have to explain it either because it's not explainable because we don't know. We say we don't know. That's honest. You say, "No, somebody told a story a long time ago and we're going to stick with that." That to me, I'm not trying to be insulting. You can't offend me. Trust me, I mean that. So, you could be as crude or as blunt. Okay. I just I mean that it's not but I find that intellectually embarrassing. It's fine. As my friend Frank Turk would say, it's impossible to know because of the ripple effect, which is this. We believe in Romans 8:28, God will do will work all things for good for those who love him. But this is the idea that every event in this world ripples forward to trillions of other events. Unless you are the all- knowing being and have eternal perspective, how do you know that these tragedies that are objectively evil will not work together for good in the end? Perhaps there are many good things that will come out of tragedies in individual lives that we'll never hear about. In fact, good results may even come from generations from now, unbeknownst to those who will never experience them. Maybe a baby getting cancer today, which is awful and just unspeakable, sends forth a trillion ripples that is partially responsible bringing bringing forth a great evangelist 500 years from now who saves millions of people. Only God can track all those ripples and only God can weave all those things for good. Keep watching. And so are is there any part of the Bible you think is true? Well, no, it's an important question. meaning like when they were documenting King David, like was King David a real figure? There there are there are are shards of it that are I'm sure so Jesus was a real person. Well, that we don't know. That is not a definitive. It really is not. And I'll tell you why. And I'm sure you know this. The the gospels are written from um 70 AD to 120. Correct. So they're about 30 to 40 years after Jesus's life. No, they're from 40 to 70 years after Jesus's life. The the earliest one is Mark. Mhm. And that's the one with 70 AD. It's the destruction of the temple. That's why it's the bleakest one. It's the one that ends with, "Father, why have thou forsaken me?" Okay. So, we see that history does involve itself in what's going on. You kind of have to read between the lines. But here's the question I've asked before here. How come the Gospels, we know everything in the New Testament is either the Gospels or St. Paul or the book of Acts, which is written by Luke. Yeah. Right. The book of Acts is the best evidence that Jesus is real. Go ahead. Yeah. But Paul lives in the 50s. He's much closer to Jesus's time and he knows much less about Jesus. He really doesn't even imagine him as some as a figure that lived on earth. He's more like a god from heaven. What do you mean by that? I mean, that's in St. Paul. No, he talks about the literal the literal ministry of Christ. He certainly doesn't. Okay. Um I you'd have to show me that because I my recollection and this is from a course. It's fun in college is that he was not that we know very little from St. Paul about Jesus and he understands Jesus very whereas the gospels written later they have a lot of information about this guy. Uh and and of course they also penciled in the crucifixion like 300 years later. I mean, the Bible was edited and the Bible itself is an anthology books. They didn't there's the Dead Sea Scrolls. There were books that didn't make it into the final cut. Book of Enoch, Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Judas. I I fully acknowledge the director's cut, right? So, well, there's all there is a lot of contradictory stuff, for example, in the Gospel of Thomas, why it wasn't included that it, you know, Jesus is in the water, Jesus is in the leaves. But there's other extra biblical accounts though that show that Jesus was a real figure outside of the Bible. He's mentioned in the Talmude for example. He's mentioned in Roman historial documents like Herodotus and many others. Excuse me. Herodotus was Greek. Herodotus was 500 years earlier. Not Herodotus. I'm sorry. I'm thinking of a different uh it's a different Roman. It's a different Roman historian. But Herodotus was the lying father of 100 or 200 years later. Not Herodotus. Okay. Um, point being is that there were other historical extra biblical accounts. So, this portion it gets very technical and this is all about the dates of the gospels. Again, I got to give credit to my friend Frank Turk in his book I don't have enough faith to be an atheist which I'm going to send a signed copy to Bill Maher uh which I think would be great. All the gospels we know were written prior to 70 AD. They don't mention the Jewish war or the destruction of the city of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD. This would be like writing a history of the twin towers and not mentioning they were destroyed on 911. And the gospel writers write as if the temple and areas of Jerusalem are still standing while they are writing. For example, in John 5:2, it says that there is a pool called Bethesda, which wouldn't have been the case after 70 AD. Dr. Jonathan Berner authored the most recent complete book on New Testament dating. He concludes that every gospel is prior to 70 AD with Mark being the earliest at 42 to 45 AD and every other New Testament book as also prior to 70 AD with only a few shorter books having an estimated range that passed beyond 70 AD. Matthew who wrote the gospel was an apostle he wrote prior to 70 AD. And I thought that was the case when I was sitting down with Bill, but actually I had I was like I think he was an apostle and I didn't say anything. But turns out he was an apostle. So on this idea of Paul not quoting Jesus first. Let's hear what Bill has to say and then I'm going to respond to it. Let's listen. Okay. Let's contend. Let's contend Jesus was real. Yeah. Let's contend. But then so the resurre the resurrection is the pinnacle of the Christian faith. Of course. Cool. Yes. um we're coming up on Easter Sunday because if you say if it's probably rational that if Jesus was real because we know that at least his apostles were real, right? And they likely wouldn't have died the death they had if it wasn't for Jesus's. How do we know the apostles were real? Well, not just because of their own first person testimony, but other extra extra biblical accounts. We know that the Mark, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John of the Gospels are not the same people who were his apostles, right? Well, Matthew was a tax collector, right? Matthew Matthew who wrote in 70 AD was not was not the Matthew. That's the disciple. Thank you. But but Luke was a hired physician. Luke was a physician who was hired to write to Theophilus who basically a rich guy was like, "Hey, go find out about this Jesus guy." Right. And basically, you know, Theophilos, lover of God, which is in my opinion the most compelling of the two documents. But we we do know objectively that like Peter was a real person, right? That's Oh, yeah. Without a doubt. Peter, the guy who upon my rock you shall build my church. Yeah. St. Peter's Basilica. I mean, like we we know Paul was real for sure, right? Paul. Yes. Yeah. And Paul talks about Peter. Paul talks about Timothy, right? He writes to Timothy. So, they have dialogues back and forth about Jesus. So, Bill is like 5% right. Paul doesn't quote Jesus very much because he was converted after Jesus ascended to heaven. But here's the truth. The Gospels recorded what Jesus said, so it wasn't necessary. In fact, the restraint of all the epistle writers in not making up quotes from Jesus, which would have been tempting to do in order to resolve disputes among like circumcision, which Bill makes fun of tongues or women in the church, shows that they were being true to Jesus. They weren't inventing things. He said although it would have been convenient to do so. This is the critical point everybody. The dating of all the documents are not as important as the dating of the sources. For example, if you write a book about the events of 9/11 right now, 23 years later, the fact that you are interviewing eyewitnesses from that time is more important than when you're writing it down. The same is true of New Testament events. In the 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians, Paul writes down the testimony he received from others and the testimony that was authenticated when Christ appeared to him. So where did Paul get what he received? He probably received it from Peter and James when he visited them in Jerusalem 3 years later after his conversion as we know in Galatians 1:18. Why is this important? Because as the legendary Dr. Gary Habernass points out, "Even liberal scholars believe that this testimony was part of an early creed that is within 1 to three years after the resurrection. Since these creeds predate the writings, when you're reading the New Testament documents, you're reading testimony far closer to the events than the dates of the documents themselves. The creed from, for example, 1 Corinthians 15 goes right back to the time and place of the resurrection. Therefore, it's unlikely to be describing a legend. Moreover, notice that Paul cites 14 eyewitnesses whose names are known, the twel apostles, James, and Paul himself, and then references an appearance to more than 500 others at one time. Included in those groups was one skeptic, James, and one outright enemy, Paul himself. By naming so many people who could verify what Paul was saying, Paul was in effect challenging his Corinthian readers to check him out. Let's listen to more of my conversation with Bill Maher. I guess the let's just let's just pretend Jesus is real again. Okay. Why fake the resurrection then? Why? No, that's a good question. Well, if you are the follower No, let's think about this rat because it is probably the most important event in human history. You didn't have to fake it. I mean, you do realize that there were religions going around the Mediterranean for a thousand years where the gods had the same biography or parts of significant parts of the biography of Jesus. It's in religious. We put it all. But gods who were born on December 25th, and I could go into the reason for that. Gods who had disciples, gods who were crucified on some sort of tree that had virgin births. Had virgin births because they were hearkening back to Old Testament prophecy. But no, these were these were all sorts of religions around the Mediterranean, not just the Judeo-Christian. These are the Persian religions that this was a Indian. And that's a very common part of it is died and came back to life. It's obviously something primitive men would have thought about all over the world. The fact that they put this into this new religion which something that the people of the time would have been familiar with these concepts again that's why they made his birthday December 25th because that was already a huge pagan for sure. And and the Christian argument is we redeemed that to become Christmas. But let's just take the resurrection though. Why would the apostles willingly go and spread what then became their death certificate? Why would they go and do that if it didn't actually happen? Like take Paul. We both agree Paul was legit and a real person. Paul was a Jew, persecuted Jews, and then had his, you know, road to Damascus moment. Why would he do that except for the fact that he's crazy or like delusional? What incentive would Paul have to do that? Rich ruling class gave up everything. You know, you're you're saying to me, uh, are there is there never a case of human delusion or mass delusion or people conde Why are there suicide cults? Of course. I acknowledge that. I'm going to answer your question. Do you remember the the uh uh Hail Comet cult? Heaven's Gate cult? No. I mean, I know Jonestown cult. I mean, that's different. Hell, this was like 1997 and they believed there was these bunch of people in San Diego and they believed that when the Hail Bob comet passed at a certain place that the spaceship was going to pick them up, but their souls, they had to be dead. And they committed mass suicide neatly. They were living normal lives, going to jobs, saying, "I'm sorry. Um, you're gonna have to change gates for your flight, and then they went home and put on purple shrouds and nights that I do know of." Yes. And mass suicide killed themselves. And you're asking me about could humans believe something that wasn't true? Yes, they could. It doesn't take a hell of a lot. people want to believe and it's a very enticing thought that this life which possibly isn't that great uh if I just give up this one which is not that much I can get this awesome one in the capacity the human capacity to believe what's not true to believe what you want to believe is infinite I mean you are literally the person I'm talking about at the very beginning of the movie religionist is the very first scene. I'm sitting in the car and I'm saying the the movie is not a spiritual quest. I mean, that's what we told them. So, they'd signed the release. The movie is me saying, "I don't know how it could be that so many intelligent people can wall off a part of their mind and believe in something that part of their mind must know is not true." That's the question I'm going for. Here's what was missing and should be added. The Hailbot people weren't dying for an empirical claim that a man rose from the dead. Unlike the disciples, the Hailbot people were dying for a claim they couldn't verify or falsify. Some people will die for a lie they think is the truth. But no one will die for a lie they know is a lie. Big difference. The apostles were in a position to know whether it was a lie or not. They went to their deaths anyway. They verified with their own senses that Jesus had risen from the dead. Paul was crucified. They hunted down Thomas. They hunted down James. They all died brutal deaths for something they saw and they knew that was true. And like you're obviously a super smart guy and respectfully. Go ahead. Sure. And I'm again I don't want to insult you on that and I appreciate you saying no. I mean, have you seen me go to college campuses? There's nothing that can But you understand my question. Interestingly, ironically, I have the same struggle. I don't know how somebody as intelligent as you, and I'm not not trying to offend you, cannot believe a virgin. Time out. Hold on. All of that takes faith. I acknowledge, but that all of the finetuning of our universe, if any of those finetunings were off, a famous a famous scientist, some of them are off. A famous scientist said to believe that the universe and the earth in its current composition was an act of randomness would believe that a hurricane would go through a junkyard and assemble a 737 flight ready Boeing. He's wrong. Okay, that's fine. But there are so many fine-tuning aspects to our existence that I think defy the idea that this is all randomness and all chance. Now, you know that's not logical. You're saying because I don't know the answer, I'm going to assume the answer must be that a divine intervention did it. That's not really a scientific way of looking at it. The cosmo so the cos the teological view, not the cosmological view, is that all of these fine-tunings when layered up one after the other, it defies, I think, reason to think that this is just a roll of the dice. that when you see a baby come into the world, when you see how we naturally heal, when you even consciousness itself, I think is a pretty miraculous thing. To think that's all just a bunch of happy accidents. But I mean, I think it's more rational to think that that's a byproduct of design. You're saying some prime mover made it so these things made it so these things happen. I would say if a prime mover could do that, why don't skip all the suffering and why don't you just get us to where we're the perfect thing? Why you need things? I don't know, but okay. The perfect being right away. We're we're some somehow on this journey to being uh you know completely immortal and healthy I guess and and and and completely moral and don't each other up and don't have sex with children and all the bad things we do evil of our world. Yeah. All the evil and the Holocaust and why go through all that if you are a prime mover. I assume that means you can do anything and just get us right to the end and then we can just what why just a bunch of us walking around being perfect? I mean why is that interesting to a god? You know the whole thing just don't make sense. I get so that's that's a separate question though of whether or not there is something behind our existence. I mean so we believe that the universe started with a big bang. Do you agree with that? Yeah. But that's not the beginning of things. That's just the beginning of what the known universe is. The big question is what was before that? And we believe it's a a a being, a god. That's that's always that's a constant. And look, I mean, you know, the the the misnomer about atheism is that we say, "Oh, there's no God." No, we just we just say we don't know. As Richard Dawkins always says, there's theism, which is belief in gods, and they used to believe in many, and then it got to one, and we just believe in one less. So there's just just not how how would you differentiate that from agnosticism? There isn't that's that's another thing that's No, I I I don't I'm just asking question. No, I think a lot of atheists think that. A lot of people on my team with this, they have that view that, you know, don't split hairs with the atheists and the agnostics. It's like it's we're on some part of I don't know and I really and I'll never know. So I really don't think about it a lot. I don't get up at church. I try to be a good person because I just think intrinsically it's it's good for society. It's good for me to be a good person as much as I can and I don't need the threat of the pitchfork in the to do it. Can I can I ask a question? So, how But you even acknowledge though that some people act better if they feel as if they'll be judged eternally. Totally. Okay. No, that's that's a big that's a big admission. But Oh, yes. How how do you think society best determines what is good? That's a great question. I mean, isn't that what government is always wrestling with? I um what your meeting I thought was a great window into the whole liberal world that shows the Donald Trump that I know and that I've gotten to know, which is and I I just thought it was hilarious when he was, you know, asking you about Iran, right? He'll ask anybody about anything. He loves asking people's opinion. He listens more than he talks, right? He'll solicit opinions. I know it blows people's minds when we say this. Well, it also blows our minds because then he doesn't do the right thing. You know, sometimes he does. Sometimes he does. The embassy of Jerusalem. I listed I gave that whole list. I also gave the list of things that are that are horrible. Disappearing people and ignoring judges and and gutting the government with glee. this tariff thing that even the conservative press has turned him on turned off on. Uh so yeah, it was it was just honest down the line on both sides. Do do you feel and just told you what I saw and good for you and didn't um and I just told this to Harvey Le on his show. I'm proud I looked him in the eye and said you're scaring people. I'm proud I looked him in the eye and said how did he react to that? You know, I mean, I'm not I I know, but see, that's the thing. I I said that the night I gave it. I said, I you're scaring people. Why do you want to scare your own citizen so much? And I know everybody wants to know what he said. And the truth is, I don't remember. But it wasn't what kind of drugs were you guys doing that night? But it wasn't, "Okay, I'll stop." Okay. Then you would have remembered that. I would have remembered. So, I have no illusions that, you know, my dinner with Donald Trump is going to change the nation. But to the to the haters, it's just like as opposed to what? Not engaging at all. That's that is that is their it's either me or or Gretchen Whitmer with the with the binder of her face. I mean, I feel like I did it better. I went in there. I didn't give one inch on what I believe or or saying to his face what I believe. Uh, but you know, I told the truth about how he's different in private. Do you think why what do you think about the idea you going Here's how I would fra frame it. You going to meet with Trump would be the equivalent of Biden inviting me over for dinner. Meaning like is that fair? Absolutely. Okay. I don't want to put words in your mouth. Why do you think Biden or Obama wouldn't do that and Trump did? I mentioned that too in the thing. I said, "You know what? You did." I said, "You know, because look, this was kind of a guy's dinner." And I look, Donald Trump is a man of a certain age, of a certain way of life. I just think he's comfortable with the guys. Not and I also think he loves his wife more than is let on, but like he just likes being with the guys. And it was a guys dinner and we just had a good guys time. And so like the I said it like I voted for Obama, I voted for Clinton, but the idea that I could talk to them as freely as I felt this conversation was going is is emblematic to me of why the Democrats lose the elections because they just don't feel that this is like a real person. And I know it's so weird to say that about Donald Trump who I've said a jillion times is, you know, a whiny little I mean, I could go through my greatest hits of like insults, but this was about getting past that. Well, I can't tell you how much I enjoyed this. Well, thank you. I mean, again, and I I I'm sure there's something that I'm not asking. I've been an admire bill of yours for a while. We we're on different planets obviously on the spiritual religious stuff, but when you spoke against the woke, that for me was a proving moment. And and I have to say something and this is 100% true. You had more moral courage than pastors that I know that went along with the woke crazy train. And you deserve credit for that because it was of high cost. They were intimidating. No. and and and I and you know part of the uh joy of doing that because it's such an easy target and they're so terrible and they have they come they combine bad ideas with a bad attitude. So when I see somebody as I've seen so many videos of yours where you're just taking them down and you do it like like Edward Ar Muro I mean you you justing destroy them. If that's if I agree with you on the premise, it is a it is a pure joy to watch that. Thank you. Yeah, it is. Um and they and and you know, I I know you don't think you're doing a giant service for the Democratic party, but you are because until we get rid of that they're never going to win another election. I agree. They don't they're not going to take political advice from me. No, but they might from me. They could. Not and they should. Not not the 10%. But that's 10%. I mean, that was the good news about this Trump dinner thing. Like this the people who hated me before, it didn't go up. I looked into it. It's the same 10%. But they're very loud. They're very loud, but but that's it. And and and I, you know, as FDR once said, I welcome their hatred because they're just they first of all, they have no integrity. They don't like ever like present the full argument. they they just cherrypick. I mean, everybody does it to everybody. So, I'm not saying I'm unique here, but that is part of our the problem our of our discourse is that everybody just wants to um forward their narrative. No one is really interested in the full truth. Just just the truth. Just give me the truth. And that's the crowd I'm going for. Yes. You know, and and to be honest, when I go to these campuses and we're drawing these huge crowds, in some ways we're benefiting from the ways that the old school comics would benefit on college campuses cuz we're saying the stuff you're not allowed to say. Like we are the rebellion type energy. They must be so thirsty for it. Of course. And like the kids. Yes. It's like innate that they want to be at Here's something that's not politically correct. Yes. And and you think about it, it's like you're a guy on a college campus at any one of these tour stops we're going to, right? Boise State, uh, University of South Carolina, Oak, you know, Oklahoma State University, and they are constantly in this bubble of if I say one wrong word, I could have my entire career ruined. If I say the wrong joke, if I laugh at the wrong thing, if I use the wrong pronoun, they're they're living in a totalitarian environment, a cultural totalitarian one. Okay, you're gonna have to stay a little more because I want to ask you about this because now you got me on colleges and you know I've been that's been one of my big No, no, we got to talk about this that's been one of my big targets for I mean I've was in my book it was in my special I called them the mouth of the river from which all the nonsense flows. It is the Wuhan laboratory. That's was my woke Yeah, I probably got it from you. I I did I said if ignorance is a disease Harvard yard is the Wuhan wet market. That was my joke. I got Now we could say Wuhan Lab, but Yeah, that's right. Okay. And Trump's going after the colleges now, which I fully support. Yeah, but as always with his it's like it's not exactly legal the way he's doing it. You know, it's it's coercive. It's um I get that. I I am behind the the the feeling of it. Um, I'm not sure this is the way to do it, but the feeling of it, yes, they they have become places um that and this is again one of your big bowicks. You know, this is one of the places you really got to and I think this is help you get where you are. uh they have become places that that are two things not really interested in teaching just just getting a uh a point of view on the world into the kids' heads which is not the way it was when I went to college at all and also just very anti-western civilization completely and this is western civilization and you live in western civilization you're soaking in it you're enjoying it all the Things that make your life and especially the life of minorities and oppressed people better come from western civilization, rule of law, scientific inquiry, freedom of speech, democracy, uh all the things, women's rights, gay rights, all of it, all of it is western civilization And the question is how do you like extrapate that from universities without I mean he's going after the research money. It has nothing to do with this. It doesn't and it doesn't. I mean so first of all you're right. Let's just start with our agreement. Colleges have become a place where they want everyone to look different but think the same. Their idea of diversity is like okay we look at the yearbook photo and everyone has you know race diversity. Everything has to look like Angelina Jolie's Christmas card. But they all they all think the as if they're at the Democrat National Committee meeting. There's no diversity of thought. There's no heterodox opinion. They tried to get Western civilization taught at Stanford. You know this story well over 15 to 20 years ago and they removed it. They removed it from the core curriculum. Really? I'm going to be honest. These places have to be basically burned to the ground. We'll say that this metaphorically. Okay. Metaphorically. Well, meaning like I mean look, you have take Harvard. So you say the re research money. First of all, they take 10 to 15% of that in overhead. Why does Harvard with a $50 billion endowment need $2 billion in research money? Just as Harvey the same question. That's a hedge fund with a college attached. Right. That's not that's not a university. Right. Right. I mean that that's something completely different. Stanford $40 billion endowment. Yale $35 billion endowment. And look, some of this research is awesome and I got I gotta agree with you. Some of it they should do a case by case basis. But a lot of it though is this woke stuff that would like take your breath away. I mean, research into transgender mice. I mean, it was just the US taxpayer dollars funding that. See, I called that out on my show. That was It wasn't transgender. See, that worries me about you, Charlie. You seem to have swallowed that one whole like a snake does a mouse without looking into it. It was transgenic. I'm sorry. It was not. But it's hugely different. Transgender. That's just going along with what the mob thinks. It wasn't. He got it wrong. And no one was around to tell him that he got it wrong. He just went with it. Transgender. It wasn't transgender. It was transgenic. They were studying mice for health reasons, serious cancer solving reasons, nothing to do with transgender. So I I stand corrected on that. Okay. But um but a lot of these universities have superolous research departments that are bloated and then go raise your own money for it is my is my position. If you want to go do this stuff, go raise your own money. No, of course. So as Christian as you are, you don't want us to be the Christian United States of America. No. Because that's not love. That's force. Okay. We as Christians believe you should voluntarily use your agency, give your life to Christ. And and you and you think that someday we all will like get on the train there? I I I don't know if I'm optimistic or pessim. I don't know. It's tough. I the church rates are going down. Right. I mean, we're seeing a little bit of a plateauing there. Your side's been winning, Bill, the last 20 years. Uh, you know, you're going to be tired of all the winning. That's all I'm going to say. But like, and as are are you cheering for those church rates to go down? Yes. You think it would make the world a better place? I do. Has it made Europe better? The idea that you think we need Christianity as the pillar here to hold up this edifice, I that I can't agree with. I but I
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