Debate on College Value and Student Choices

[00:00] uh I just want to talk to you about that

[00:01] book uh it was a good segue oh did you

[00:03] read it no okay but I want your thoughts

[00:05] like just face to face um why do you

[00:07] think college is a SC okay so um half of

[00:10] this audience if you get a job will get

[00:12] a job that doesn't require a college

[00:14] degree 41% of kids that enter College

[00:17] will not graduate and the vast majority

[00:20] of kids 60 to 70% that go to college I

[00:22] believe study things that are completely

[00:24] worthless meaningless and don't enrich

[00:25] Society at all but is that the is that

[00:28] the fault of the student or the college

[00:31] because I looked in the stats for this

[00:33] it's usually because they either don't

[00:35] have the finances to support themselves

[00:36] going to college they don't um they have

[00:39] mental health problems that lead them to

[00:40] dropping out or stress or their family's

[00:42] not supporting them so is that the fault

[00:44] of college that they pick bad degrees is

[00:46] that the fault of the college that they

[00:47] can't support themselves right it's like

[00:49] getting a gym membership and then saying

[00:51] well you know I don't want to actually

[00:53] go work out it's the fault of the gym so

[00:55] a good question so first the 41% of kids

[00:59] that drop out

[01:00] uh the federal government will fully

[01:02] underwrite any four-year College through

[01:04] Fasto you know that through a student

[01:06] law meaning so if anyone has financial

[01:09] difficulty that's not really a thing the

[01:10] federal government will fully grant you

[01:12] your loan to any for University right so

[01:15] you might have you might not want to

[01:16] take on that student loan burden you

[01:18] might not want to take that on but

[01:19] that's number one number two I can't

[01:20] speak to the mental health issues I

[01:22] doubt that 41% of the kids that graduate

[01:25] in that number all have mental health

[01:26] issues but maybe that's the case uh I'm

[01:28] not sure I don't know that number

[01:30] um but let's talk about the institution

[01:31] itself so everyone in the audience here

[01:33] how many of you have had to take classes

[01:35] that are a waste of time that you wish

[01:37] you didn't have to take that are a waste

[01:38] of money and that every single hand goes

[01:40] up look around look around look around

[01:43] look around they're scamming every kid

[01:45] in this audience they are forcing them

[01:47] to take classes that make them poorer

[01:50] that take up their time in order to get

[01:52] the credential that is a institutional

[01:56] scam and and by the way every other part

[01:58] of life is all about your own

[02:01] customization your Netflix account how

[02:03] you get your burrito bowl from how you

[02:05] dress your Amazon cart is you are in

[02:07] charge but you come to college and they

[02:09] say you must go take these three four

[02:11] five classes that are very expensive

[02:14] especially for you out of state students

[02:16] to go further into debt study things

[02:18] that don't matter to find jobs that

[02:19] don't exist that sounds like a

[02:22] scam at least in my personal experience

[02:25] right like maybe some colleges they're

[02:27] all like they all like they're all like

[02:28] nambian gender study right they might

[02:30] all be that but I would say what are you

[02:33] studing I'm studing economics right okay

[02:35] um and what I would say is that I have a

[02:38] great levity in choices of classes I

[02:40] want to take even if like there's a

[02:42] bunch of general education classes I

[02:44] have a great flexibility in the class I

[02:46] want to take it's up to the

[02:48] student if they want to take meaningless

[02:51] classes given their um credit

[02:55] limit okay but I mean I would just

[02:57] speculate that this school still has

[02:59] specific criteria of classes right am I

[03:01] correct diversity yeah you have to take

[03:03] a diversity class that sounds like a

[03:06] scam well they are robbing you to take a

[03:09] diversity class it's actually not what

[03:11] you typically think I think there I mean

[03:13] I'm taking is it true do you guys have

[03:15] to take a diversity class no no this is

[03:16] this is true this is true all right so

[03:18] that's a scam like let's be clear

[03:19] diversity class scam can you define what

[03:22] a scam is um when you are you are

[03:25] getting ripped off of your with your

[03:27] money your time your resources either

[03:29] Beyond what is a market rate or against

[03:33] your will so I'll give you an example if

[03:34] you guys want to fly to New York and

[03:36] Spirit Airlines says we're going to

[03:37] charge you $2,500 for a one-way ticket I

[03:40] think we' all all all could agree flying

[03:42] Spirit Airlines for $2,500 is a scam

[03:45] like you know it when you see it I mean

[03:48] it depends on how you view the worth of

[03:50] college like if you the federal the

[03:54] Federal Reserve for San Francisco gave a

[03:58] um released a new letter discussing the

[04:01] actual finances um behind is college

[04:04] actually worth it and they found that by

[04:06] age 40 you recoup all at the average

[04:08] student recoups all their costs if they

[04:11] graduate if if they graduate and even

[04:13] accounting for that other Economist um

[04:17] also State no so that that's an

[04:19] important study if you take out the top

[04:21] 10% that's not the

[04:23] case top 10% of what top 10% of

[04:25] graduates and income earners so the top

[04:28] 10% end up FL ping with a college degree

[04:31] the other 90% do not do you know that

[04:33] there are 11 million job openings in

[04:35] this country that pay $75,000 a year

[04:38] that require 6 weeks of training that

[04:41] require muscular labor or using your

[04:44] hands 11 million job openings now a lot

[04:46] of you guys are in college because

[04:48] you've been pushed into college saying

[04:50] that you must get the piece of paper you

[04:51] might get the piece of paper when there

[04:53] are very they're good paying jobs 11

[04:55] million of them but either your Society

[04:58] your parents or your own choices are no

[05:00] I want to go to college I want to go

[05:02] after that piece of paper my contention

[05:04] is that there are way better options out

[05:07] there for a lot of students not every

[05:08] student but almost every a lot of other

[05:09] students Charlie I think um a part of

[05:12] your core rhetoric there there's

[05:14] actually some real truth there that like

[05:15] I think a lot of there's people are

[05:16] getting really just pressure to go to

[05:17] college even if they'll make poor

[05:19] choices I'm just saying that even while

[05:20] you're in college you can make better

[05:22] choices to make yourself better totally

[05:24] agree do you think most people

[05:26] do it I know some that are making great

[05:30] choices I some making terrible choices

[05:32] so let's think about this why do you

[05:34] think let's just say most make terrible

[05:36] choices would you say that's the case

[05:38] I'll give you 40 to 60 why do you think

[05:39] that is maybe because the institution

[05:41] incentivizes bad choices it's easy to

[05:44] coast and still graduate it's easy just

[05:47] to check the boxes right it's it's not

[05:50] an institution designed around

[05:51] Excellence it's around let's get you

[05:53] through the mill as quickly as possible

[05:55] get the piece of paper pay your bill

[05:58] thank you very much

[06:01] but do you think that the act the

[06:03] culture around students going to college

[06:04] could change instead around their

[06:06] decision making I think we need way less

[06:07] kids going to college the institution

[06:09] itself is so broken let's be clear Force

[06:11] diversity classes Dei all that stuff

[06:13] it's nonsense if it was really College

[06:16] really should be closer to what

[06:18] Hillsdale College is which is about

[06:20] wisdom Beauty truth goodness not just

[06:23] about Job preparedness but that we've

[06:25] lost that

[06:27] completely if if it's about doctors

[06:29] lawyers engineers and the skills of

[06:31] course but you know that it's way beyond

[06:33] that I mean people's going to I'm not to

[06:36] pick on you but you're studying

[06:37] economics that's terrific that's a good

[06:38] reason to go to college um it's not the

[06:40] best reason I'll be honest but it's a

[06:42] good reason right I mean economics is a

[06:44] serious discipline it's a real science

[06:46] you know we need people really

[06:46] rigorously studying that

[06:49] so okay let's we just have a difference

[06:51] of opinion I I I just want to ask you a

[06:53] question what would you do like if

[06:55] you're were a policy maker um I would

[06:57] defund all the colleges in the country

[06:59] make come s on their own two feet with

[07:02] either tuition or donor

[07:03] money taxpayers should not be

[07:05] subsidizing higher education period

[07:08] survive on your own all right thank you

[07:11] you said that economics was not the best

[07:13] thing to study in your opinion like when

[07:15] I when I put my hand up the question I

[07:17] wanted to ask was like what do you

[07:18] actually think the best thing to study

[07:19] is best reason to come to college again

[07:22] if you're going to a super leftwing

[07:23] college and you're trying to just get

[07:25] the piece of paper and credential I mean

[07:26] you should go at what the college is

[07:27] it's if it's known for if it's best de

[07:30] um and so I don't know what w is known

[07:32] for what it's best at but I mean

[07:34] computer science right I would imagine

[07:36] the Paul Allen School is that right or

[07:38] am I correct this is up top of my head

[07:40] is that right it's right here right yeah

[07:42] so um but yeah those fields in

[07:44] particular but sociology or the or the

[07:46] life sciences or soft social sciences

[07:48] typically do not have as much of an Roi

[07:50] on the time or the money spent and so

[07:52] economics is in the Middle Ground there

[07:53] and so you said uh that you would defund

[07:57] colleges state colleges on a national

[07:59] level um and so basically that would

[08:02] mean that there are no subsidies going

[08:04] out to students like inate students or

[08:06] anything like that I I would I mean you

[08:08] don't get to determine what the states

[08:09] do but yes federally all federal grants

[08:11] should end completely yes okay make

[08:13] these institutions survive on their own

[08:15] if they're such if they're so wonderful

[08:16] and they're so great then make it work

[08:19] make your uh make your numbers work and

[08:21] so then what is the difference between a

[08:24] uh State College and a private privately

[08:26] owned College well a state so w get

[08:29] subsidized in state tuition here right

[08:32] so if you go to um that's why that's why

[08:34] I'm paying only 12,000 no for sure but

[08:38] you're paying it back in taxes let's be

[08:39] clear right so taxes make that possible

[08:42] and your parents or you paid that in for

[08:43] 18 years so you get that back um but a

[08:46] private school uh I don't is there

[08:48] University of Seattle is that a thing or

[08:50] okay which I'm guessing is private

[08:51] Seattle yeah okay that they do not get

[08:54] money from Olympia to subsidize the

[08:57] tuition so they have to stand on their

[08:59] own two feet right so they have higher

[09:01] tuition and they have to justify to

[09:03] donors how they're doing every single

[09:05] year but they still might get some

[09:06] federal money does that make sense yes

[09:08] and you're saying this on the grounds of

[09:11] uh required like diversity credits and I

[09:13] just think I mean look around has

[09:14] College enriched our society the young

[09:17] people are the most depressed they're

[09:19] the most anxious the most alcohol

[09:21] addicted drug addicted least married

[09:23] most angry generation American history

[09:25] is that all college where where does

[09:27] that where does it come from though I

[09:28] mean they're the most college educated

[09:30] most credential generation in history

[09:32] where do these ideas come from I would

[09:34] argue I would argue that they come from

[09:36] the fact that there are too many people

[09:38] and not enough jobs and to stand out of

[09:40] the crowd to stand out of the masses you

[09:42] need to get yourself some credentials I

[09:45] totally agree so you want to stand out

[09:47] don't go to

[09:48] college then you're not going to get

[09:49] hired worked for me worked for

[09:53] you start your own business by the way

[09:55] that's not true half of employers no

[09:56] longer require a college degree

[09:58] requirement well okay I'm I'm talking

[10:00] about more specialized jobs that's

[10:01] that's fair as far as trades go okay

[10:04] that makes

[10:05] sense 11 million job openings for trades

[10:07] yeah you're using your muscles to uh get

[10:09] your daily wage right it's not it's not

[10:11] just muscles though like for advanced

[10:12] engineering is not easy that's not just

[10:15] picking up Lumber and putting on one

[10:16] side of the warehouse that's very

[10:18] specific very you know and by the way

[10:20] you can learn to code in eight weeks and

[10:21] earn 100 Grand a year you can yeah yes

[10:24] uh may you don't need to go to

[10:26] University of Washington the thing is

[10:27] though the thing is though that uh you

[10:29] are not going to get hired over somebody

[10:30] that has graduated from udub computer

[10:33] science degree Sur you you've been sold

[10:34] a lie you've been surprised you'd be

[10:36] really surprised employers less and less

[10:37] likely actually want to hire kids from

[10:39] college because they work the least they

[10:40] the most entitled and the quickest to

[10:41] run to HR about problems and Mis pronoun

[10:43] people um you'd be you'd be surprised no

[10:46] it's true for like the big big firms

[10:48] like Microsoft Amazon Starbucks like

[10:50] they obviously want you to have a

[10:51] college degree but mid- major companies

[10:53] mid-level companies increasingly don't

[10:54] care they care about can you do the job

[10:57] like do you have any sort of skill do

[10:58] you have are you going to work really

[10:59] hard do you have good character that

[11:00] makes sense for like startups and such

[11:02] for sure um however and here's the thing

[11:04] just start to interrupt but after like 5

[11:06] years nobody cares where you went to

[11:07] college just so we're clear sorry to

[11:08] interrupt but yeah yeah uh all good I

[11:11] mean we we have we just have a

[11:12] disagreement here my my whole point is

[11:14] to try to push the boundaries of

[11:16] discussion to make you guys open your

[11:18] eyes and realize you guys are getting

[11:19] ripped off by the institution here and

[11:22] that's it so yeah so I do not believe

[11:25] that I'm getting ripped off because in

[11:26] my field it is very important especially

[11:29] with how oversaturated it is right now

[11:31] I'm studying CS computer science yes um

[11:34] there's tons of jobs in I mean there

[11:36] might not be though I mean there aren't

[11:37] that's the point AI might take all your

[11:39] jobs away sometimes way out to stand out

[11:41] the whole point is that here and

[11:44] elsewhere around the country we're doing

[11:45] a bunch of research on how um computer

[11:49] scientists and and like engineers in

[11:51] general are still going to be useful

[11:52] with the rise of AI other elsewhere you

[11:54] don't learn stuff like that you learn

[11:56] the basics of programming you've maybe

[11:57] heard about like the Harvard

[11:59] uh 8we course right that you were

[12:01] probably talking about just a second ago

[12:03] um however uh when you actually do uh

[12:06] take that course you don't get a lot of

[12:08] the reasoning skills a lot of the

[12:10] practical application skills and a lot

[12:12] of the things that I'm learning every

[12:14] day in my classes and so the fact that

[12:17] uh you can learn it in 8 weeks and get a

[12:19] job because you have the qualifications

[12:21] uh it's true maybe but in the market

[12:24] that we have right now where the job

[12:26] market is super oversaturated there are

[12:28] a ton of people getting computer Science

[12:29] degrees these employers most of the like

[12:32] high level ones that are going to pay

[12:33] you a lot of money are not looking for

[12:35] somebody who has the base level

[12:37] qualifications they're looking for more

[12:39] than that and one more thing is that

[12:42] that to get these jobs coming straight

[12:43] out of college even with a degree in

[12:46] computer science from udub which udub is

[12:48] known for computer science you are going

[12:50] to have to have years and years of

[12:51] internship and job experience in most

[12:54] cases otherwise you're going to be doing

[12:55] the base of the base level fair enough

[12:57] so we we we just have a difference of a

[12:59] World viw um I say why not graduate from

[13:02] high school learn the code and go beg

[13:04] for an internship and bypass the college

[13:06] thing completely you'd be amazed at how

[13:08] willing people are to help with that

[13:10] again you guys have been largely sold a

[13:12] lie that you need to March through this

[13:13] place for four years and check the boxes

[13:16] and get the piece of paper and it's been

[13:17] dangled in front of you I'm here to tell

[13:19] you and I'm only 10 years older than you

[13:21] that the world doesn't really care you

[13:22] went free went to college they care when

[13:24] you come out of college as your first

[13:25] job once you're in the door it really is

[13:28] rather irrelevant but we disagree so

[13:30] okay that's right