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Dennis Prager and Charlie Kirk on Biblical Distinctions, Campus Violence, and Why America's Founding Rests on the Torah
Dennis Prager joins Charlie Kirk at Dream City Church for a profound discussion on the first five books of the Bible, the divine order of creation, and how America's founders drew heavily from Deuteronomy and the Torah. Kirk opens with a gripping account of violence at UC Davis, where university officials materially lied to incite a mob against him. Prager delivers his signature moral clarity on why distinctions between male and female, good and evil, and man and God matter, why despair is a sin, and how the left systematically dismantles biblical order. This isn't just theology, it's the battle for civilization itself.
Violence at UC Davis and the Left's War on Truth
Charlie Kirk begins by recounting a harrowing 24 hours that culminated in mob violence at the University of California, Davis. What makes this incident particularly disturbing isn't just the physical assault and chaos—it's the deliberate incitement by university leadership. The Chancellor of UC Davis, who earns $850,000 annually, released a video to the entire student body claiming Kirk "has advocated for violence against transgender individuals." This was a complete fabrication based on an internet rumor that Kirk had called for "lynching" trans people—something he never said, never thought, and goes against everything he believes.
The Sacramento Bee amplified this lie in a newspaper article, creating a coordinated campaign of falsehoods that generated death threats against Kirk and his family throughout the week. When Kirk arrived to speak to 900 students who wanted to hear him, antifa terrorists surrounded the venue, broke windows, assaulted a police officer, and used quasi-military tactics to try to gain entry. The university president suggested it "would make a powerful statement" if Kirk spoke to an empty room. Instead, nearly a thousand students showed up, demonstrating exactly why the left fears open dialogue.
Kirk emphasizes three reasons Turning Point USA continues doing campus events despite the danger: to encourage conservative students that they're not alone, to teach people there's another worldview, and most importantly, to remind the radical left they don't run this country. The Sacramento Bee eventually issued an apology and retraction, and Kirk announced they're preparing a lawsuit. The truth wins, he says, and we must defend it.
Dennis Prager on God's Order and the Left's Chaos
Dennis Prager, who has spoken with more human beings than perhaps any person on the planet through 40 years of radio, brings his signature clarity to the fundamental question of our time: What did God do in the six days of creation? His answer: God made order. The left, Prager argues, makes disorder. This is the key to understanding the ideological battle of our age.
Prager lists the fundamental distinctions God established in creation: God and man, man and animal, man and woman, good and evil, holy and profane, and man and nature. The Hebrew word for holy, "kadosh," literally means separate. Holiness and distinctiveness are synonymous. The left's entire project is to obliterate these God-ordained distinctions, creating the chaos of Genesis 1:2 rather than accepting the order of Genesis 1:1.
In the Garden of Eden, the serpent's temptation was essentially this: eat from the Tree of Knowledge and you will be like God, determining good and evil. This is precisely what the left does today—they determine good and evil, not God. This is why they hate religious people, particularly Christians, who represent the only organized opposition to leftism in America.
The War Against Male and Female
Prager notes that the obliteration of the male-female distinction has been underway for generations. When he was in college in the 1970s, he was taught that men and women are basically the same—an absurdity his grandmother who never went to high school understood was false. You have to go to college not to know that men and women are basically different.
The argument for same-sex marriage centered on the claim that "gender doesn't matter, love does." Prager recognized this as a dangerous downhill slope for civilization. If gender doesn't matter, that is the end of humanity as we know it. This ideology has now metastasized into the current transgender movement, where unprecedented numbers of young people, particularly high school girls, claim to be the opposite sex. This is entirely socially induced, not natural.
Prager asks a simple question: How does a girl know what it's like to be a boy? She doesn't have a clue. We have different brains and different bodies. The absurdity becomes clear when you think it through. He jokes that he'll take transgenderism more seriously when a transgendered male starts exhibiting the uniquely male characteristic of not being able to find anything.
America's Biblical Foundations
Kirk raises the crucial point that America's founders knew the Torah intimately. Deuteronomy was the most quoted book, secular or religious, in the writing of the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, and the Declaration of Independence. We teach children in government schools that America was a secular nation, but in reality, it was the Bible—particularly the first five books—that founded the philosophical tradition of the greatest nation ever to exist.
Prager confirms this with remarkable specifics. The founders quoted Deuteronomy more than any other biblical book and any other secular book. The second most quoted author was Montesquieu. Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, who were among the least doctrinally religious of the founders, suggested that the Great Seal of the United States depict the Jews leaving Egypt. This shows how central the Torah was to their understanding of liberty.
The Liberty Bell itself bears a verse from Leviticus 25: "You shall proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants." That the founders chose a verse from Leviticus demonstrates their intimate knowledge of the Torah and their conviction that biblical principles were essential to American freedom.
The Lockdowns: The Greatest Mistake in History
Prager recounts his moral clarity during the spring of 2020 when he wrote that the lockdowns were the greatest mistake in human history—not the greatest evil, but the greatest mistake. He distinguishes between evil (what Mao did to the Chinese, what Hitler did to the Jews) and catastrophic error. The lockdowns were international in scope and caused damage that continues today.
Children have not recovered from school closures. The economy suffered tremendously. People became addicted to free money, which Prager argues is as addictive as heroin—perhaps more so, since it's harder for most humans to get off benefits than to get off drugs. Sweden provided the test case by not locking down and not closing schools for children under 16 for even one day, yet they fared no worse than countries with draconian restrictions.
Prager reserves particular criticism for the institutions that failed during this period. The first college to shut down was Harvard. Churches and synagogues largely failed by being obedient not just to secular authority but to irrational secular authority. Dream City Church, where this event takes place, was one of the notable exceptions, hosting President Trump in summer 2020 when every other venue cancelled.
The only hope for America lies in its religious community, Prager argues. If religious Jews and Christians fail, it's over. The lockdowns were a test, and most institutions failed it catastrophically.
College Presidents, Doctors, and the Collapse of Professional Integrity
Prager struggles to determine which profession has become most dishonest: college presidents and deans, teachers unions, or the American Medical Association. One qualification for college president at 95 percent of our colleges, he says, is that you be a coward. Cowardice is literally a qualification for the presidency of a university.
He witnessed this firsthand at Columbia University in the 1970s when students took over the president's and dean's offices. Nothing was done to them. Everything happening today was born in that moment. The British Medical Journal recently attacked American doctors for giving children hormone blockers. American medical profession, as a profession, has become a disgrace. Boston Children's Hospital, affiliated with Harvard Medical School, takes out advertisements offering to remove healthy girls' breasts because they say they're boys. This is diabolical.
The Talmud, the second holiest book in Judaism, contains a line that puzzled scholars for 2,000 years: "The best doctors go to hell." Prager jokes that we now understand what it means.
America Is No Longer a Beacon of Light
In one of the most sobering moments, Prager shares that he wrote what may be the hardest column of his life. At the synagogue he founded in Los Angeles, they say a prayer for America every week that includes the line: "Oh God bless the United States of America, a beacon of light and freedom in the world." Prager has suggested to the synagogue board that they change the wording.
America is no longer a beacon of light and liberty in the world. In fact, America has become the greatest exporter of toxic ideas on Earth today. The woke ideology, gender madness, and moral confusion emanating from American institutions—particularly universities, hospitals, and media—are poisoning cultures worldwide. Prager proposed adding the words "may it continue to be a beacon of light and democracy," but struggles with lying in a prayer.
One hundred and fifty years ago, virtually every American home that could afford it had two things: a Bible and a piano. Today, very few homes have either. God wants us to love beauty, and art needs God. The combination of Scripture and music represented something precious that has been lost.
The Battle Against Despair
Toward the end of the discussion, Prager addresses a question about staying motivated during hard days of activism. He shares a profound insight from his commentary on the Book of Numbers. The story of the twelve spies sent into Canaan is instructive: ten came back saying "we can't do it, they're too strong," while two—Caleb and Joshua—said they could conquer it because God promised they would.
One commentator Prager read explained why God was so angry at the ten spies who gave the negative report. The answer changed Prager's perspective: Despair is a sin. This is entirely accurate biblically, but it's also practically true. Could Churchill not have despaired? Could Washington not have despaired? At no time in any good battle was there not reason for despair, yet they pressed on.
Despair is narcissistic, Prager argues. It means you feel sorry for yourself. Don't do it. You can't despair. There's no reason to despair—there's reason to be worried, to be concerned, to work harder—but never to despair. Those who fight evil, those who do nothing, and those who help the fighters are the three types of good people. Helping the fighters is as important as fighting.
The Jewish Calling and Christian Unity
Prager addresses theological questions with characteristic clarity and humility. He has no issue with theological differences between Judaism and Christianity because he doesn't measure people by their beliefs but by their behavior. Theology is central to the Christian mission, but Prager notes that he has brought tens of thousands of people back to church—this Jew has done what many pastors could not.
The Jewish calling, he explains, is not to bring people to Judaism but to bring people to God, the Ten Commandments, and the Bible. To bring people to Sinai, where the Ten Commandments were given. If someone wants to convert to Judaism, they're welcome, but that's not the primary mission.
Prager emphasizes that Christians are not serious Christians if they don't know the first five books of the Bible. Jesus would agree. "Love your neighbor as yourself" is in the Torah. "Love the stranger" is in the Torah. "Love God" is in the Torah. The Ten Commandments, the Exodus, the creation, the Garden of Eden—all in the Torah. You must know the Torah to know what it means to be a Jew or a Christian.
Final Thoughts on Superman and the American Way
A young homeschooled child asks a question that serves as a perfect metaphor: How do we get Superman back to fighting for truth, justice, and the American way? Prager recalls that when he was a child, television broadcasting ended at midnight. The screen would show the American flag, play the national anthem, and then go blank until morning. He remembers loving to stay up until midnight to see the flag and hear the anthem.
He didn't realize he loved America until he was in college. Now he wonders: How many kids today get chills when they see the flag and hear the national anthem? If you don't get chilled by your country's national anthem, your country is in jeopardy. The question of how we get Superman back is really the question of how we restore love of country, respect for truth, and commitment to justice in a generation that has been systematically taught to despise all three.
The answer lies in the very gathering taking place—believers coming together to pray, to learn God's word, to be reminded of eternal truths, and to encourage one another in the fight for civilization itself.
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