Hey there folks, welcome to the Eric Mataxis show. I'm Eric Mataxis and I got to say uh well first of all let me orient us. It is Tuesday and uh it's September 23rd suddenly. Uh it's September 23rd. Well uh Chris, Keith Juna, we um we've been through it here. Yesterday I flew home uh from Phoenix, Arizona where I was at the Charlie Kirk Memorial um at whatever stadium that is. I want to talk about that. That's there's so much to say. Uh so many people that I met and connected with. Uh I put some of that up on my Instagram, but not all of it. Um Glenn Beck hugged me and I got choked up. I tell you, he has this like anointing of emotion. It's so amazing. He He's just h anyway. Well, um all right. So, as I said, it's the 23rd of September, 2025, Tuesday, and the headline is that what happened on Sunday in Phoenix was, how do we put this? Um It was it was historic. Everything's amazing. Everything's awesome and everything's not awesome. And awesome is a kind of a crappy word. Um, but what we saw was genuinely historic, epical. E P O C H A L. Epical. Uh, I think we are likely to see things going forward as before and after the murder of Charlie Kirk. I think that, you know, when you get to like you have if you're 30, you can't you cannot. But I can see looking back, you know, you say, "Oh, there's 9/11. Uh, there's the the murder of JFK." There are these moments in our history. There's Watergate. Um where what has what just happened I would argue is bigger than any of those things bigger than any of those things that I just mentioned. Um, I I think, you know, if you if you talk about the the Christian witness, I mean, the big headline for me is the Christian witness at this memorial event the other day. And and Chris and Keith, if I'm missing something, help me here. But I I can't think of anything that compares to it. Absolutely nothing. I remember when 911 happened, there was this I don't know some days later at the National Cathedral in Washington DC, Billy Graham spoke. It was kind of his last big sermon ever. And he talked about, you know, we can all go into eternity tomorrow and blah blah blah blah blah. on the, you know, and that was nothing compared to what happened two days ago in the Phoenix stadium. That was really small compared to what happened the other day. And by the way, the the effects of the Billy Graham thing, like we we in 10 seconds went back to whatever uh secular mindset we had. It was like a gasp. I don't know what happened, but that's 20, you know, almost 25 years ago, which is insane to comprehend that it could be that long ago, but that was nothing compared to what happened the other day. Um, I So, so to me, that's the headline. And then the headline of the headline is when Erica Kirk said that she forgives the man who murdered her husband. Ladies and gentlemen, if you if you want to know like I wonder if this Christian stuff is real, it doesn't get more real than that. You you you can't, you know, Jackie Kennedy didn't say, "I forgive the man who murdered my husband." Okay. Ethel Kennedy didn't say, "I forgive the man who murdered my husband." I'm pretty sure Kretta Scott King, the wife of a minister, a daughter of a minister, she did not say, "I forgive the man who murdered my husband. That's next level. And by the way, let me just throw in that all of those husbands were adulterers. They were not uh in some ways they were very great men and in other ways they were very broken men. >> Uh they were not walking with Jesus the way Charlie walked with Jesus. This is very very different. This was this was somebody who is you know clo close to being a living saint if not he was a saint. I mean he was a profoundly godly man whom I knew personally and I can attest that that's what that's what he wanted more than anything else for his life is to honor God and all he did reflected that. So that man was murdered >> and 11 days later his widow says I forgive the man who murdered my husband. There is nothing clearer than that. That's as clear as I get. You solve for X in algebra. Like let's solve for X. Let's like like like let's try to get as as much clarity as we can. That is evidence of the God of the Bible. The one who forgives those who murdered him. Father, forgive them. They know not what they do. Now, you know, you get some religious people on X saying to me, "Well, you know, unless they repented, there's no for." It's like, excuse me. Do you like Do you read you ever read the Gospels? Jesus said, "Forgive them, Father." Jesus said, "Forgive them, Father. They know not what they they didn't beg for repentance and say, "We're sorry." So, you you have a theological problem there, right? We are called to forgive. Now, we're not called to like free the murderer uh any more than when Pope John Paul II was almost killed and then he went and he prayed with the man who tried to kill him. But he didn't say, "Okay, uh let him out, you know." So, there's justice and there's our laws, but then there's what God calls us to do individually. When Erica Kirk did that, I thought that's like dropping >> a hand grenade into the bowels of hell. That what that is the power of God. The the forgiving power of God that makes the demons writhe in agony because that is the one thing they can't stand. That's the love of Jesus Christ manifested. The agape love, the selfless love of God for his enemies, for those who would murder him. That's that's so powerful. And I I thought to myself, as great as everything was, and I couldn't even believe how great it was, and we're going to be talking about it, but that was to me the culmination that this woman proves her faith and the faith of her husband by by saying the thing that without Jesus, it's utterly unthinkable. Again, I think that that blows the minds of millions of people. They're like, "What? I don't get that." And you're right not to get it. And I don't even think President Trump got it. You're right to get it. It doesn't make human sense. Apart from the Holy Spirit, it is just a conundrum. How can what what do you mean? How can you say that? That's the question. How can you say that? But if you care how somebody can say that and you ask God to help you understand it, you will find the truth, the the the the gift at the end of the rainbow that God has prepared for every one of us. The the meaning of life. That is the meaning of life. If you can understand that. So that to me was so powerful and I think that the the murder of Charlie has unleashed revival in America. This is God's plan. This is not our plan. None of us would say, "Oh, that hey, yeah, we vote for that. I see that." Nope. But God saw it. Uh we have had people prophetically talking about a billion soul harvest and you go, "Well, all right, Lord. Whatever you think." >> Is that you, Lord? Well, that that to me this feels like that. This feels like this unthinkable thing that just happened, the murder of this glorious young man, this wonderful, deeply good young man. Um is uh it's the martyr's death that is Satan's worst nightmare. Uh and we're going to see revival and healing and restoration and beautiful things. Um, when we come back, we'll give you all the details of the event. Uh, stay tuned. You can find me at ericmataxis.com. Folks, welcome back. Uh, my guest in hour two uh is Megan Basham. Uh, a true hero of our time. We love Megan Basham. What an amazing woman she is. Um, so she's coming up in hour two. We're we're talking about um the murder of Charlie Kirk and the the outrageous event uh two days ago in um in Phoenix. Getting there was predictably miserable. I have to say, you know, like if there's crowds involved, I'm out. Like I'm not a crowd guy. Uh it's just unbearable to me. waiting in lines, uh, shuttle buses, like whatever whatever is involved, the hell of parking and stuff. I'm I'm out. I was never in on that stuff, but the older I get, the more like I'll skip that and I'll watch it on TV. But, um, I felt called to go. Uh, it was extremely inconvenient for me. I'm working on a book. I need every moment to work on the book, but sometimes God just says, "I need you to do this." And I believe that's what happened. Uh and even before that last week, um Chris, you just mentioned off the air here, but uh my friend, Pastor Allan Jackson of World Outreach Church in Murphreey'sboro, Tennessee, contacted me and he said, "We have a Christianity and culture conference coming up." That was this past Friday and Saturday. Uh and the keynote speaker on Friday night was Charlie, so obviously he can't do it. Eric, could you do it? So, uh, so yes, obviously, um, I did. We had a really busy week last week. We had a a number of important dinners. We had a Socrates events last week, uh, that we're we're doing. We had a Socrates patrons dinner in New York City. We've got a patrons dinner coming up in Dallas this week. But um yeah, I flew down to Nashville and spoke at Pastor Alan Jackson's church on Friday. Uh and um then the next day flew to Phoenix. And the the blessing of all of this, one of the blessings of all this is connecting with friends, connecting with people who loved Charlie and just seeing each other and and trying to process this moment together. And I have a sense of hope. A as hopeful as I was before and I have been very public about this that I I believe what Dutch Sheets said that the Lord told him uh I will save America. This is God's will for this season. And that's that is we see that in the miraculous uh deliverance of Donald Trump from death uh July 13th over a year ago um we a year ago we we see we've seen I I think evidence that God says I will have this country. I will save America from itself from the woke death spiral in which it found itself. And we we could see that with the re-election of Trump and with the way he has been acting since he was inaugurated, just staggering accomplishments. And the the left has never been more unhinged. They they cannot this is their this is their worst nightmare. But as much of a nightmare as it has been for them, a far worse nightmare is the murder of Charlie Kirk and the response to the murder of Charlie Kirk, culminating, of course, in in Sunday's event in Phoenix, which which I was privileged to attend. And I don't even know where you begin. I guess again for me the headline apart from what I already said this was the most public and powerful witness of the Christian faith possibly and I and I'm open to being corrected but I would say possibly in American history. I cannot think of anything that can compare to this. I I don't know. I wasn't around when Lincoln was killed. >> Uh, but I cannot imagine um that the le let's let's let's just cover this the b the basics. What what am I talking about? You you you get all these kind of like secular liberal jug heads talking about separation of church and state and intimidating even those Christians in public life from not being too vocal about it because that violates something. Of course, it violates absolutely nothing. And if you're foolish enough to believe the lie and you silence yourself as so many have done, you know, George W. Bush and others, they act like, well, it's not it's so it's so stupid. It's just sickening. But the point is we have seen we saw the other day and I'm I know I'm going to miss people but ladies and gentlemen the vice president of the United States the secretary of state Marco Rubio the secretary of defense now the secretary of war Pete Hegsath down the line RFK Jr. the head of health and human services. Every one of them and many many many others saying the most profoundly boldly Christian things declaring the truth of the Christian faith. Unbelievable. Now there again there are people that are ignorant enough not to understand that that is permissible at least permissible. They they really they have such a poor understanding of our founding documents and our laws that they they they go along with the lie that that somehow uh people in public life aren't supposed to be talk about faith. That's complete baloney, folks. And and and again, if you don't know what you're talking about, always feel free to shut up. But there are people who no, they they'll just talk like they don't really care. And I'm just here to tell you that I if you if you talk if you think that this concept of the separation of church and state means we're supposed to have a naked public square, a secular public square, that is a complete lie on many levels. And a robust expression of Christian faith is not only consent with who we are as a people and our founding documents, but it is it's it's it's suggested. It's strongly suggested. Um, so but to see that on display in a way that we have not because many of our public leaders have bought this lie and they've silenced themselves until now. Until now. And we now have no fear. I mean, Pete Hegth, you know, speaking incredibly boldly about his faith. Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State, I mean, on and on and on and on. It was so astonishing to me. I I really still can't think I can't think of anything that compares to it. I cannot think of anything that compares to it. And I don't know, Chris and uh and Keith uh if you have any thoughts, but I I cannot think of anything. We've never seen anything like it. specific to that point. I saw an expost uh from a Christian Brit in England and he said it so well. He said, "You have to realize we Christians here in England would wait once a year to hear Queen Elizabeth give a half a sentence nod to her faith." in America. You just saw all of your most powerful leaders get up one after another and not just give a nod to faith. They preached the gospel. They shared biblical principles. They shared their personal faith and convictions. He said, "America, you have no idea what you have. Please stop complaining and never be quiet." And he said, you may have seen this post. He ended it with America truly is a light on a hill to the world. He's like, "May you continue." It was beautiful. Well, we're we're living that. We're we're seeing that. And again, the hilarity. I mean, first of all, Rob McCoy, who was Charlie's pastor, who's a a friend of mine, he was like the first one up, and he, you know, gave this gospel presentation. And when it was over, I was like, "Oh, what a bummer." Like that's it, huh? And then I thought to myself, after him, everybody after him spoke as strongly or more strong about the faith than Pastor Rob McCoy, my my my friend, like all these other people. The the most hilarious moment for me is when Tulsi Gabbard, not a Christian as far as I know, is quoting Corinthians, ladies and gentlemen, and and then she goes beyond that and she's talking about Charlie's faith and faith of I thought we have just entered a new world. I want to be clear, we have entered a new world. the the boldness of all of these folks and God bless every one of them for not shrinking from being bold. It was beautiful one after the other. Tremendous boldness. Um and Eric, can I ask you a question? You you referenced your hug with Glenn Beck earlier and on his program and he's been in tears so much, but he said >> he felt the he didn't say the presence. He said, "I felt the Holy Spirit >> in that arena like I never have in my entire life." And I leaned over to the person next to me and they said without prompting, "I feel the Holy Spirit in this place." Can you describe what it felt like spiritually to be in that in that place? >> Well, look, it's hard to say because you and I, we experience the Holy Spirit all the time. Let's not pretend like what was that, you know, like we experience that when you go into a place where uh where there's real worship or stuff, but I think for a lot of people maybe they don't they don't know what that is. And so I um well, actually, when we come back, I'll tell you about my encounter with Glenn and uh Elon Musk was there. The whole thing. Oh my gosh. We'll be right back. Folks, welcome back. Today is the 23rd of September, Tuesday. I just got back last night from um the Charlie Kirk Memorial. I saw so many friends. It was such a blessing to be with so many friends. Um um Jared Fleming uh who works with us at Metaxis Media was with me. uh a brilliant young man uh who who who knows how to navigate Phoenix. He lives there. And to get us to the stadium, I I can't even tell you. We were This is where you get these like God moments where you think this had to be the Lord because we're driving and driving and driving. I cannot tell you. Cars were backed up. It's like one of these things I just go, you know, and and theoretically I have like some VIP access. Ha. Right. like I got some special VIP access which is worth nothing when you're sitting in a line of cars that's like you know to the horizon and we saw Jared saw some friends of his he's like hey you know I don't know somebody walking he's like how you doing and they said yeah man we just parked we got so we were like let's let's let's just park so we just parked in some lot and walked two miles to the stadium because it was just chaos. You're sitting in lines of traffic to get into a parking lot to get it just so we just walked and walked and walked and I mean it felt like we were straggling back from the the civil war just ended and we're marching back to Kentucky or something like that. >> If this had been Yeah. If this had been China, they would have had some VIP, you know, people moving drones that, you know, picked you up like a claw machine and uh you know, escorted you 10 feet above the masses to the front of the line. So, >> well, it's it's well, it's it's so funny, but I mean, we walked and walked and walked and walked and then we get to the place where we were supposed to be able to park and we figured, well, just walk in there. We don't have a car now. This is the way in. >> And they're like, "Oh, no, no, no. If you don't have a car, you can't come in." >> Oh my gosh. >> So, of course, somebody rolls down a window. Eric, the Flashoint crew, some of them were driving in. They're like, "You want a ride? Thank you." We jump into the Flashoint uh car and they drive us in. Like it was like one of those things and >> crazy. >> But look, obviously the security was probably bigger than security anywhere on the planet because you have the president, the vice president and his whole cabinet in attendance. We can't can't even imagine. I don't know. So um but but it was it was it was astonishing. I saw so many people that I knew that I I can't even remember half of them. I mean I talked to uh so many friends, took pictures with friends. I was not in the, you know, the top VIP thing. That was, you know, for big givers for two TPUSA and, you know, uh, whatever Elon Musk, Glenn Beck, I don't know what tiers there were, but whatever there was that was closest stage. I was not there, but, um, I was with all the the pastors from TPUSA Faith. Uh, that's headed up, of course, by Lucas Miles. And so, but so many friends. But I went up to the uh to to the to the edge of of our section and here comes Glenn Beck. >> And uh he when he saw me, he just like embraced me. And of course, like we're both crying, you know? I was not crying until then. >> It How do you describe all this stuff? But Glenn just has a gift for feeling. He's always been that way. He's very emotional. He's got a huge heart. It was so beautiful. It was so beautiful. And um Frank Turk, I didn't get to see Frank, but but his presentation was I mean it was as powerful and clear as anything I've ever heard. And we we're going to get him on the program maybe next week because he was there when Charlie was killed. He was with Charlie in the car trying to get him to the hospital. Charlie was already dead. Um, >> we'll let him tell that story if you haven't, but but that was so powerful. Uh, I I don't know. Some people said they saw me on Fox News. I guess that when the crowd when when they they they they scan the crowd. I I didn't I didn't I didn't know that. But um but yeah, I was there. I was wearing I think I was the only person out of the 100,000 wearing very bright red pants. Um, and that's not like a laundering error that turned my pants red. No, they're intentionally red. >> There was a dress code. There was a dress code. >> The theme was Sunday best, red, white, and blue. And so I wore very bright red pants, a white shirt, a red, white, and blue tie, and my blue blazer. Not the one I'm wearing now, but a a reasonable faximile. Um, and but you know what's so funny, too? I gotta mention this. So everything says Sunday best. Everything says sun wear your Sunday best. Part of where we are in America is that most of America dresses like slobs. They don't even know what Sunday best is not even a category any anymore. So I rebuked several young men for dressing like slobs when it clearly says Sunday best. I mean even if they had tried to dress their Sunday best, it would have been crappy. But they would have gotten credit from me for trying. But some of them are kind of like, well, what do you mean this t-shirt is not? What do you mean? So, it's kind of interesting like as we go back to like what I what I think I think the big theme here is that the Lord wants to take us back to first principles, right? In other words, to go forward, we need to go back to who are we as a people? What do we believe? Talking about marriage. Get married. Hey, young man, suck it up. Get a job. Get married. Have children. Like, that's such a powerful, beautiful message. And it's as countercultural as it gets. All of us, we've grown up in with the sexual revolution which has just polluted the culture. So to call us back to marriage and family is as countercultural as it gets. And what goes along with that is how we dress. And again, I'm always half joking with this, but it's kind of an interesting thing because it does matter. Is it the most important thing? No, it's not the most important thing, but it's just interesting. We've lost the vocabulary of what what do I wear to church? church. I just wear my you know what whatever my flip flops and my whatever like what what you know what's wrong with that now on some level there's nothing wrong with that but just even talking about that is uh is interesting. We'll be right back. Welcome back. We're talking about the event in Phoenix the other day. Uh and I was just talking I was just laughing because it said Sunday best and just so many people like they don't know what do you mean? Yeah. I I just have this shirt. I don't know. like they don't >> Yeah. Does that include Croc Croc shoes or tea sandals? Is that uh can I >> Well, that's what's so funny is that we've lost and again I want to be clear this is not the most important thing in the world but everything does matter and I think that just as much as and listen why do people dress like slobs because it is true that what you wear doesn't matter right like on one level it doesn't matter like you know you you you the idea that I could get all dressed up and go to church and like worship the devil you know by doing nothing and by by being a phony religious Christian who goes to some nice big church and gets all dressed up like that. God looks on the heart. That's true. So, you know, if you go to a church and you just wear whatever you wear with, it's not about wearing a suit and tie. But it's kind of funny that even at at a funeral, even at a memorial where it actually says Sunday best, it just doesn't compute for a lot of people. And I think, you know, I want to keep saying like that's not the most important thing, folks. Believe me, I know it's not. But it's kind of interesting that I think thinking about that is healthy. Let's let's think about that. How do we present ourselves? Um, and what does that what does that mean? Does it matter? Does do we show respect by by how we dress? I mean, if you went to the White House, would you wear flipflops? Why not? Why wouldn't you? Uh maybe Zilinski would, but he would be rebuked. Uh, why do these things matter? Well, in some ways they do matter. Um, and I think that as long as, you know, it's not the most important thing because there are people who die on this hill. They're idiots, right? They'll be like, "The most important thing is like, you know, you need to wear a three-piece suit and obviously it's not." But >> these these moments are opportunities in culture that and we don't have a lot of these anymore. And and unfortunately, you know, you look back at some of the old footage in New York City and everybody has a suit on and it's and part of that I I heard recently was because you you didn't get treated well if you if you didn't dress well at at back in that era, >> but you don't but you don't today. If I mean, listen, >> correct? Correct. If I am dressed up and I show up someplace, don't ask me why, but people talk to you a little differently unless they're communists and then they know they really hate your guts if you're wearing a double- breasted blazer. But the point is that these these things matter. And anyway, I didn't mean to get off on this, but it was just kind of funny that the thing said Sunday best and people are just like, I don't know what I don't know what that maybe they didn't read it or they >> Well, for a lot of people the word Sunday or best. >> For a lot of people, Sunday is is game day. So, you know, that's your team shirt. That's my Sunday best. You know what I mean? People wearing their uh their favorite NFL uh t-shirt logo. >> Yeah. But I mean I so I think part of the reason I'm really bringing this up is that we're at a moment there's a great reversal happening. I remember Ken Fish said to me over dinner some months ago our our friend Ken Fish said we need to repeal the sexual revolution. And I thought, wow, yeah, of course. I mean, sexual revolution has led to infinite pain and degradation in the culture where where women are lost, men are lost. Everybody's lost. Uh we we don't have intact families. We have generations of divorce and brokenness and whatever. And that comes from the sexual revolution, which was a repudiation of God's order, which God says to most of us, not to everybody, but to most of us, get married. Amen. Be a man. Grow up. Be a man. Support your family self-sacrificially. Suck it up for your family. Sacrifice for your wife. Sacrifice for your kids as unto the Lord. That's what God says to most of us. And listen, we all get it wrong in different ways. But we're at a moment now where one of the most powerful countercultural messages that has come out of the murder of Charlie is that everybody's hearing his message, get married, have a family, have more kids than you can afford, have that is the most countercultural message. And I think many young men and increasingly more young women now with Erica Kirk stepping up are going to hear this message and go, "You know what? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, okay. that that I've seen the brokenness. I've seen where that how that plays out. Doesn't look so great. Um, so it it it was so powerful. But I guess I want to get back to, you know, I I was sitting there uh in my sort of VIP section, just able to see a lot. And I see Elon Musk walk in a couple times. He kind of walked in and he's a character I've never seen him in person before. And he the way he walks, you can see he's on the spectrum. Like he's so smart that he's kind of like moving funny and whatever. And the richest man the planet has ever known. And he was there. And he heard the most powerful witness to Jesus that any of us has ever heard. He was there. He heard all that. President Trump heard that. Jared Kushner heard that. Everybody who was there heard it over and over. It's not like, "Oh, I was in the bathroom." What did they say? I was in the bathroom. I missed like Tucker. I missed uh Susie Wilds. Uh well, guess what? Everybody was talking about Jesus. You could not miss it. And by the way, it wasn't like Nambi Pam sort of Jesus. It was powerful. And again, the culmination when when Erica Kirk says that my husband's whole life was saving these lost young men >> from a life of meaninglessness. and whatever. And she says all this and she says, "The man who murdered my husband was one of those men and I forgive him." Ladies and gentlemen, that's as powerful as it gets. That is the stake in the heart of Satan. That is so powerful that if you were in that building, I mean, for Elon Musk to hear that, what was he thinking? He He's a really decent man. He's a good man. >> And he went up to President Trump, I mean, to see the two of them together, I'm going to get choked up because I think many of us love the both of them and, you know, stuff happens. But that was there is a level of healing going on that I don't even think we can comprehend. there's a level of healing going on. Um, and I am so hopeful for for what's going to happen in this country that um I I really believe that we are, you know, you hear people talk about revival, revival, revival, and you go, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Where where show me." Well, now I think God is showing us. Here it is. I think I think we're also going to see miraculous stuff. People getting miraculously healed. I think we're going to see this stuff. We're in a we're in a new era. It's beautiful. Um we'll be right back. Let's welcome back in hour two. Uh we're going to have Megan Basham coming on. Um we have a lot of great guests this week. We have Sydney Powell. Wow. Wow. We have Sydney Powell coming on the program. We'll probably talk to her tomorrow. That's a huge deal. That's a huge deal to get her back on the program. She's been through hell if you know her story. She is one of the great heroes of this country. Um excited to have her back. Um a a lot of of of great folks coming on. By the way, um I bumped into a lot of people who are friends over the last few days who do not get my newsletter. If you don't get my newsletter, you're missing a lot of stuff. I mean, a lot of these interviews that, you know, I I the other day I had an amazing conversation with Victor Davis Hansen. We've been having a lot of amazing conversations actually. So, if you're not signed up, uh, please folks make a note if you can't do it now. Uh, ericmataxis.com is my website, ericmataxis.com. And we we're sending you all kinds of stuff. I'm going to send photos today from the event. Um, but there's just a lot of stuff that we cannot, you know, share on the program and so many friends don't know what's going on in my life because they don't they're not signed up for my email. So, just go to ericaxis.com, please uh and sign up and twice a week we send out an update with there's just so much happening. I mean, I'm uh flying to Dallas tomorrow. Um, we have a Socrates event uh a patrons dinner in Dallas uh this Saturday. I'm speaking um in Dallas at the uh Metroplex Women's Clinic. It's a big event. Saturday night, Sunday I fly to Washington DC for the uh Presidential Commission on Religious Liberty. Sunday and Monday. Um so just a lot of stuff going on. And just to keep you uh updated, I also should mention actually um that we're doing a matching grant for Socrates in the City. Now folks, the other night we had a patrons dinner here in New York City um you know for the for the people who fund Socrates in the City. And that alone was such a who's who of heroes. I mean the people in the room the other night I thought these are people many of them have been friends for years. Some of them are new friends, but it's so encouraging to be with people who are who care about truth. Um, that's what Socrates in the City is is always about. Uh, is about truth. Uh, it's about asking the big questions, which is very similar. It's different, but very similar to what Charlie was doing. It's an open forum to say, let's dare to explore the big questions together. Um, you know, with no pressure. This is not like we're selling anything. It's just like we believe that if we do this um in a civilized way, uh people are hungry for truth and people come up to me. Uh I think I said this that when I was in Washington DC like a week ago, a young woman comes up to me with her young husband and she says we met at a TPUSA thing. We're both conservatives, but my husband was not a Christian and through watching Socrates in the City videos, he became a Christian and now we're married and we're serving God together. And I thought that's my dream come true. We put out all these amazing videos of conversations with some of the greatest people. And so we're doing a a matching grant right now. Um if you can help us, go to socratesthecity.com/match or maybe you can see it just when you go to socrates.com. But um we would love you to, you know, partner with us, whatever you can do. But it's this is for a good cause, folks. We're getting these videos out to more and more and more people. Um, so that's Socrates city.com. You can watch the videos of this program on my YouTube channel, which is Eric Mataxis on YouTube. Lot of stuff. Lot of stuff. Uh, you can watch the Socrates videos uh at our YouTube channel Socisandcity.com. And if you want to support the program, go to mypillow.com. Anything you buy, use the code eric. Myillow.com. It's our friend Mike Lindell. Use the code Eric. or you can get my books at mystore.com. mystore.com. Use the code Eric. We'll be right back with hour two. We got Megan Basham coming up. Um I uh I'm still reeling from the last few days being with so many friends at the Charlie Kirk Memorial, which I will say again, folks, I can't think of a more powerful witness to the Christian faith ever. I I I I I know that sounds like hyperbole, but help me figure this out. Like when have we seen anything like it? After 911, we had one service at the National Cathedral where they allowed Billy Graham to give a gospel sermon. That was it. That was it. um the outpouring the other day, the the collection of leaders, world leaders in the room, I I I don't think I've ever ever ever seen anything like it. And it's kind of where I think a lot of people get in the me memo like, "Hey, I think this Christianity thing might be okay. This might be a positive thing." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It would have been one thing to have just one of those people from the cabinet or maybe even two, but it was everyone. Everyone was there. It was extraordinary. I I followed some folks that uh you know on Instagram that were there, some influencers um uh they're they're I think more libertarian. I don't think they're of faith, but they they escaped Cuba many a couple years back and uh Charlie Kirk had invited them to a debate, which is obviously something in Cuba that doesn't exist. And they were so touched by the invitation that, you know, they they felt and they live in Arizona, so they felt like they wanted to come and pay their respects to Charlie. And they were so moved by the worship. They were they they I mean, it looked like there were 300,000 people trying to get in. And obviously only about a you know a third of that could could make it in. But it was extraordinary to see their coverage and just the sea of humanity that was there and then for you know they related some of the conversations that were obviously very respectful that they had with other people there and they were just very very touched by it. So uh God is definitely doing something extraordinary. And Chris, speaking of of the worship, there was a an ex post I I forget the account, Ash somebody, and she identified herself as Jesus curious, which I loved. So, she was not a believer at all, but she was curious, and what really grabbed her was the worship. She said, I she she had such insightful comments. She said, "I didn't know people could look like that when they joined together in song. It looked like they were connected with each other and connected with something else." And she went down the list saying how much the music, the worship, and Eric, you were in the room. I mean, Brandon Lake and Chris Tomlin and and um gosh, I mean, the the biggest names we have, Carrie Job, I think, uh others were there. And this woman summarized the impact that our worship should have every time we gather. Our worship should be transcendent. It should be otherworldly. It should be stunningly beautiful. And this woman is coming to faith because of what she experienced in the worship. It's beautiful. Well, see, this is the thing. When people see this for the first time, they go, "What is this?" They don't know what this like what is this? This is powerful, but why? What is What is happening? And I think I I mean, imagine folks, I mean, some people music really affects me. M >> and I I I could get this with, you know, quote unquote secular songs, right? You know, uh Elton John or something like I'm just moved. We are made in the image of God. So, we're moved by art and music and we're created for that. So, imagine that you're moved and then you're actually singing to God >> and it's real. It's not an idea. You're not singing about God. You're singing to God. It is stunning. It's an emo amazing emotional thing. Well, this is the right way to order our emotions. You know, there's ecstasy in the right direction. >> And I have to say that that was part of it. I think that there were a lot of people there probably Elon Musk and others who thought, what is this? Like I've heard about God like this is just who are these people? These are all people I respect. Amazing people uh who are who who are witnessing to God. Like we've lived in a secular world, ladies and gentlemen. I I've lived in a secular world where there's no reference to God. There's no they it's just like it doesn't exist. And so when you're confronted with it, especially in the beauty of this moment celebrating the life of this young man who was murdered, you can't help but be touched. And there were there were so many I I have to tell you I I can't even think of the people that I spoke with. Uh Mark Driscoll, I spoke to Mark Driscoll was there. Alyssa Childers, uh I spoke with her. Just so many people that everywhere you turned, uh that it was, you know, it is like a foretaste of heaven. It's a beautiful thing. We were hanging out with Billy Hollowell. Um it it it was unlike anything that I could remember. But I think that the bottom line is that this is just the beginning. I think there's there's a move of God happening in this country that the secular left to say they're not prepared for this. This is their worst nightmare. Of course, it should be the most wonderful thing in the world for them. And some of them are going to um are going to say maybe I missed something. Maybe I was wrong. You know, um so one thing I want to say just for clarity because a lot of people don't get this. It was the one of the reasons I love Donald Trump is because he's so honest. And I remember a few years ago at the National Prayer Breakfast, uh Arthur Brooks, who I just interviewed for Socrates in the studio, was talking about how we're supposed to love our enemies. And Trump gets up right after he's like, "I don't get that. What do you mean love our enemies? Doesn't make any sense." And he's honest about that. Like I don't get it. And you shouldn't get it. Like apart from God, it's like it makes no sense. It's like, "What? What do you What do you mean love enemies? I want to kill my enemies. I want I want to defeat my enemy. What do you mean?" And the other day it happened again where Trump gets up and he's like, "I don't know about I think maybe Erica would tell me I'm supposed to, you know, you know, love my enemy. I hate my enemies." You know, he says it right. And I love that he's honest because most people feel this kind of like religious guilt like I guess I should love my enemies but I don't get it. I don't get and it's like no you're right to say that's a dumb idea in my mind. Can you explain that to me because I don't get it and I think the church has done a bad job. We speak in this religious language. It is a profound thing. And to say it like it's simple to get. It's it's it's the opposite of simple. It makes no sense on one level. And unless you know you are a sinner, you want to talk about the guy who murdered Charlie. Oh, he's a sinner. Yeah. Yeah, that's correct. But if you don't think you're a sinner, you don't get it. You don't have God's perspective. God wants you to know that apart from him, you're bad. Apart from him, you do bad stuff. And if you think, well, compared to compared, if God says, no, no, no. I compare you to Jesus, you lose. You cannot be compared. So unless you see your own guilt and your own need of a savior, you can't comprehend forgiveness and grace. You cannot. And so that's part of this beautiful moment to me is that I think people are like, what what do you mean love my enemies? What do you mean forgive the killer? Like how do I what does that mean? Now it doesn't mean you know you'll let the killer out of jail. It doesn't mean that there's not the wheels of justice. But to have the compre to comprehend that I need God's grace. There are a lot of people they don't get that. They kind of think, well, I'm I'm pretty good. I do good. All right. Well, according to the Bible, according to God, you don't get it. God wants you to get it. He wants you to see your own guilt before him. That you have chosen yourself over others. That you have done enough bad that you're guilty. and you're guilty enough that apart from him, you don't get to go to heaven. But then you realize, well, God says if I accept him by faith and I humble myself, he wants me to be with him in heaven. So he sends his son into the world to die in my place. What I deserve, I don't get. What Jesus deserves, he doesn't get. And what he doesn't deserve, he gets. And he dies on the cross so you don't have to. I mean this is this is the mindblowing paradox at the center of Christian faith and when you get that it changes everything.
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