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Candace Owens Exposes Turning Point USA's Debate Disaster With Andrew Wilson
Candace Owens breaks down her debate with Andrew Wilson, revealing the dishonest tactics, unprofessional behavior, and stunning lack of preparation that exposed Turning Point USA's collapse under Erika Kirk's leadership. From not knowing the charges against Tyler Robinson to Steven Crowder's team sneaking into her home, Candace details how the organization Charlie Kirk built has been betrayed by those now running it.
The Debate Was Over Before It Started
The moment Andrew Wilson pulled out his phone to read his opening statement, I knew this debate was finished. When someone has to literally read from their device while claiming to be there to educate others on debate strategy, you're watching a performance, not a serious discussion. This man was supposedly hired by Turning Point USA to train their students in debate tactics, yet he couldn't even deliver an opening without looking at his notes.
The biggest losers weren't just Andrew Wilson—they were Erika Kirk, Andrew Kolvet, Blake Neff, and the entire Turning Point USA organization. They've reached a new depth in their ongoing public relations disaster. This is the organization that once stood for something under Charlie Kirk's leadership, now reduced to sending a chain-smoking debate personality with questionable preparation to try to discredit someone Charlie himself trained.
I genuinely feel disrespected. No organization knows better than Turning Point USA that Charlie Kirk trained me to debate. We spent hours traveling across college campuses, working through note cards, learning strategies, understanding what not to do. The fact that they thought Andrew Wilson was the answer to taking me down reveals how far they've fallen.
The Nightmare Before the Debate
Let me walk you through what happened leading up to this debate, because understanding the pre-game chaos helps explain the dysfunction we all witnessed live. I have never in my entire career—among friends or adversaries—dealt with a more unprofessional team than Andrew's crew.
First, Andrew demanded we negotiate the debate terms publicly on X. He refused to use email like a normal person, insisting everything be hashed out in public tweets so I supposedly couldn't change the terms later. After a day and a half of exhausting back-and-forth, we finally agreed: 3.5 hours minimum, he could bring a video person, he could bring fact-checkers, he could pick the moderator. We folded on essentially everything.
Once we moved to private email discussions, things got stranger. I was communicating with a faceless "Crucible team" that refused to identify themselves. No names, no accountability—just anonymous demands. They suddenly wanted contracts and escrow accounts, then Joe Rogan apparently made an offer to host in Texas, which they used to try renegotiating everything we'd already agreed to publicly.
After I declined to travel to Texas—my only conditions were no traveling while pregnant and no smoking in my home where my children live—they finally let it go. Then Andrew reached out to PBD to moderate, and we had an emergency FaceTime call where I explained in detail how small my house is, how my children homeschool here, and why we couldn't allow filming outside the studio.
The Anonymous Team and Last-Minute Demands
On Thursday night, the day before the debate, we still had no point of contact and no names for who was coming to my home. My producer had to text an anonymous person using what appeared to be a burner phone. This person immediately became rude, demanding we provide a desk, HDMI cables, and power access so they could set up Andrew's livestream equipment—something we never agreed to.
When were they going to inform us of these assumptions? At 9:15 PM the night before, followed by another email at 11:15 PM. And still, they refused to identify who the four people were that would be entering my home where my children sleep.
On debate day, everything made sense. Andrew showed up with Steven Crowder's team, including Gerald Morgan, Crowder's CEO and producer who spends his days mean-tweeting about me. Despite my clear instructions about not filming outside the studio and the reasons why, Gerald decided to do a live call-in from my kids' playroom just outside the studio. This was their plan all along—get clicks and views for Steven Crowder by being deliberately disrespectful.
For those who don't know, Steven Crowder is basically a child actor who never stopped being a child actor. He's a 40-year-old man whose brand revolves around pranks and disrespect. His own career crashed when he was caught on doorbell camera berating his eight-month pregnant wife (now ex-wife) when she was carrying twins. Apparently, his recovery strategy involves plotting against another pregnant woman to break into her house for inside content on a debate.
The Debate: A Masterclass in False Confidence
By the time Andrew read his bizarre opening statement about having a "never-before-seen message" from Charlie Kirk, it became clear this had nothing to do with our actual debate claims. He wanted to take cheap shots at me while simultaneously making Erika Kirk look like a liar.
Here's the original Turning Point USA sin: Erika claimed on Glenn Beck's show in December that she had Charlie's phone and never saw any text about threats to his life. I said she was lying—I knew that text existed. Days after that interview, we met in Nashville, and she told me the message was on Signal and auto-deleted, so she never saw it. But Andrew just revealed it was actually on iMessage. So either she lied twice, or Andrew is about to be very embarrassed when he releases this message he claims to have.
The actual debate started with PBD asking Andrew what percentage likelihood he assigned to Tyler Robinson being the shooter. His answer? "75 to 85 percent." That's reasonable doubt. The debate was over right there. You can't claim evidence is "overwhelming" and then admit you're only 75% confident. That's literally the definition of reasonable doubt.
The Gaslighting and the Lies
What struck me most was Andrew's strategy of lying with complete confidence—not just about the case, but about things happening in real-time during our debate. He would assert something happened five seconds ago that demonstrably didn't happen, then argue about it as if he could gaslight everyone watching.
He kept repeating the term "positive evidence" like he'd just learned it yesterday. It became maddening. He'd demand to know my "positive evidence" for opinions—as if you need courtroom-quality evidence to have thoughts or concerns. When I reported threats to authorities, he wanted to know my positive evidence. That's not how reporting threats works. You report what you know to people whose job it is to investigate.
The most revealing moment came when I asked him to name just one of the seven charges Tyler Robinson faces. After confidently saying "of course" he knew them, he said "murder." That's incorrect. The first charge is aggravated murder, which is specifically defined and carries the death penalty. When I then listed all seven charges correctly, he visibly deflated.
This man came to debate Tyler Robinson's guilt and didn't know what he was supposedly guilty of. He hadn't read the case filings, hadn't watched the preliminary hearing, and clearly hadn't prepared beyond gathering gotcha clips.
The Screwdriver, the Timeline, and More Deflection
Andrew tried desperately to avoid discussing actual case evidence. When I wanted to talk about the degraded fingerprint or the screwdriver, he'd say "so what?" and try to move to a new topic. He wanted to depose me about Israel and France instead of defending his actual debate claim.
He became fixated on my show's timeline, specifically why I included Tyler Robinson eating at a steakhouse in Panguitch. I explained I spoke to the owner, saw the receipt, and included it—standard investigative practice. He demanded I call Visa and Mastercard to verify it, holding me to a higher standard than the FBI holds itself, while simultaneously accepting blurry images and assumptions as "overwhelming evidence" for prosecution.
The absurdity peaked when he tried to suggest I was being fed answers through my earpiece. These are standard producer communication devices that don't work beyond 15 feet from our control room. His team sat right next to mine and could verify nothing unusual happened. But his wife Rachel tried to plant conspiracy theories online afterward, turning them into the very thing they accused us of being.
The Aftermath and the Cope
After the debate, the internet united—left and right—in recognizing what a disaster this was for Turning Point USA. Andrew asked an AI program called Claude if he won (since every human poll showed he lost), then tweeted that AI sources confirmed his victory. He literally crashed prediction markets—PolyMarket odds on Tyler Robinson's conviction dropped into the 30s during our debate based on his performance.
The memes have been exceptional. From people mocking his "positive evidence" obsession to jokes about him not being able to open pickle jars (a reference to his previous embarrassment), the internet saw through every false claim and overconfident assertion.
His wife's attempts at damage control only made things worse. She admitted Andrew "had about six days to prepare" and that "of course Candace will know the details better"—essentially conceding he didn't care about the case and was just there for clicks and money.
The Pressure to Give Away the Debate Winnings
Almost immediately, establishment voices started demanding I donate the $300,000 debate proceeds to establish a trust for Charlie Kirk's children. Let me be clear: this reeks of fake altruism and feels uncomfortably like money laundering.
Charlie Kirk's children were multi-millionaires when he was alive, and that increased after his death when multiple trusts were established. The last thing they need is more money. What they need is a stable parent present in their lives—something I cannot provide for them.
The organization hunting me wants me to give money back to people connected to that same organization? The pressure campaign is transparent and gross. These are the same people who offered the money, retweeted the offer, and sent Andrew Wilson. Now they want to create peer pressure for me to return it? That's not happening.
Instead, I'm taking care of the people who took care of me—my sister, the Catholic priests who supported me emotionally when I was falling apart over Charlie's betrayal by his own organization. I'll give to the Catholic Church. And then I'll decide what I want to do with my money. You don't get to dictate that after you're the ones who put it on the table.
What This Reveals About Turning Point USA
The Charlie Kirk I knew would never have aligned with people like Andrew and Rachel Wilson. These are not people living conservative principles. They brand themselves as Orthodox Christians while behaving toxically online and in their personal lives (look up clips from the Whatever Podcast if you doubt this).
Erika Kirk can't get through a sentence without invoking "the Lord," yet she's hugging Andrew Wilson and bringing people like this into the organization to train students. The Christian facade has to end. People see through it now—the brand is fraudulent.
Turning Point USA under Erika's leadership has become unrecognizable. They betrayed everything Charlie built. They betrayed his friendships. They constantly lie about who he was and what he believed. And they're doing it all while claiming to represent his legacy.
For the first time ever, left and right are united in their disgust for what this organization has become. That wasn't the sentiment after the assassination—this is Erika's doing in less than a year as CEO.
The Truth Keeps Coming
There has to be consequences for what Turning Point USA has done. Vengeance doesn't belong to me, but truth belongs to everybody. And you know what I do better than anything? I sentence people to more truth.
You send an unprepared operative to my home? You disrespect my family by sneaking Steven Crowder's team in to film where my children play? You violate basic decency and professionalism? Fine. We drop more truth. That's the consequence.
Tomorrow, we sentence Turning Point USA to more truth. Because if there's one thing this debate proved, it's that everything is wrong with the Charlie Kirk assassination narrative. Literally everything. And they're panicked because we're getting closer.
They're not going to get away with it. The truth has a way of emerging, and my audience—we are Legion—will keep pursuing it until we get answers. No amount of debate bros, gotcha clips, or establishment pressure will change that.
Video Transcript
All right, you guys. Happy Monday. I am
extra happy this Monday because of the
great debate. My oh my. Honestly, you
guys, if we're being honest, it was over
the minute that Andrew Wilson began
reading his quote unquote opening
statement from his phone. I was half
expecting him to just be like, "And this
message was brought to you by Turning
Point USA." Just terrible. Terrible. I
mean, without question, the biggest
loser was Erica Kirk, Andrew Kulvette,
Blake Nef, the Turning Point USA
organization, more broadly speaking,
because we seem to be reaching a new
depth of their PR disaster. Could it get
any worse? I mean, guys, they brought
that guy in to train Turning Point USA
students how to debate. He's going he's
going to teach them the strategy of
debate. They actually paid him to teach
them. So they went from Charles James
Kirk Charlie
to a chain smoking debate bro with a
very shaky boot. So like I said they are
the biggest losers. I personally think
the organization is over. There can't be
much coming back from that. Who they're
now hitching their wagon to. Erica Kirk
CEO and chairwoman ruined this
organization in under a year which is
incredible. And it's because the queen
sent an absolute joker. Welcome back to
Candace.
>> Let me just express to you all that I I
truly feel disrespected. Can I say that?
I feel disrespected because there is no
organization that knows better than
Turning Point USA does that I was
trained to debate by Charlie Kirk cross
country across too many college
campuses. I mean just hours and hours
and hours while we were traveling note
cards learning how to debate what not to
do. And so it's just like how dare they,
you know, how dare they send me Andrew
Wilson. Really? This is this is the new
person that's coaching the students.
This is who you think is going to take
me down. Goes into TPUSA headquarters in
June. Comes out and suddenly he thinks
that I don't know. He's a billionaire
dropping my name. Oh, she's too afraid
to bait me.
Okay, let me give you guys a little bit
of a backstory here. You should you
should just know what happened leading
up to this because it just will give you
a a better sense of what the
organization has become. what we all
notice has nothing to do with who
Charlie was. And I think understanding
the leadup to this moment, leadup to the
great debate. Um, yeah, I really do
think that it will help furnish the
answer of the strategy that Erica Kirk
employs as the new CEO and leader. Now,
I am not in any way exaggerating when I
say that I have never in my life amongst
friend or foe organizations dealt with a
more unprofessional team than Andrew's
team in my entire career ever anywhere
leading up to them arriving at my house.
So, foremost, just to back it up, you
will recall that Andrew Wilson demanded
that I publicly negotiate the terms of
the agreement on X. He wanted to tweet
back and forth. It was excruciating. He
wanted to make sure that I couldn't
change the terms. I was like, "Why don't
we take this on to email? We could just
go back and forth." He's like, "No, this
must be negotiated publicly, please."
So, he literally refused to email like a
normal human being until we agreed to
the debate claim that until we agreed to
the the format, you know, 3 and 1/2
hours minimally um until I accepted
that. And that took about a day and a
half of non-stop back forth, which it to
me is quite child childish. And we
agreed, of course, that he could also
bring a video guy because he was
paranoid to ensure uh that there were no
surprises, like we were going to do some
sort of a gotcha here. Like who was in
his ear just telling him that this any
of this is necessary? I don't know. But
I did find out. We also agreed, as you
saw publicly, that he could bring his
own fact checkers. Essentially, he's
coming with a party of four. We agreed
that he could pick the moderator, etc.,
etc. We basically folded on everything
because I just said, "Yeah, I just I'm
I'm down for this debate." And then once
it was excruciatingly and publicly
negotiated and we are finally able to
move to discussions behind the scenes,
we start an email chain. I am provided
with no identity as to who I am
communicating with. We're basically
emailing the quote unquote crucible
team. I'm like, "Who is this? Who am I
speaking with? Why is there no name
behind the emails? Um, even when we,
like I said, we asked, "Who am I
speaking to?" They're just being shady
for no reason. It's like a faceless
email chain. We have all of our names on
there, so they know exactly uh who's
calling the shots, who's being looped
in. We've got nothing. So, whoever this
anonymous email person or people were,
they then declare that they would like a
contract and an escrow account for the
funds. Okay, not totally off the mark,
but it's going to be hard, not exactly
easy to find a bank that approves an
escro account, open it, get lawyers
involved by Friday. That's what I'm
thinking. They then indicate that
they're okay if it's my lawyer's
account. Okay, fine. I have my lawyer
begin drafting a very simple contract,
which basically spells out exactly what
we've agreed to publicly. And suddenly,
we receive an email from the Crucible
team. the Crucible team essentially
saying, "Never mind. Joe Rogan has now
made an offer to host this discussion
down in Texas." So, and I'm quoting
this, "This changes everything.
Let's just blow up the negotiations.
Let's blow up everything that we made
you painfully agree to publicly because
Joe Rogan will reach more people than
your platform." Now, they're asking me
to travel to Texas. They offer me a
luxury car to accommodate my pregnancy
and I say no. I say no unless Joe would
like to come to Nashville because it
does not change everything. It actually
changes nothing and I'm not going to
deal. It's already been a painful
process. I'm not taking myself through
that again. Plus pushing the date back
and having to be in communication with
this team for weeks um on end because
you're a fan of Joe Rogan. I like Joe
Rogan, too, but I only had two
conditions here, right? Everything else
we've conceded to. I said, "I don't want
to travel." Not because I can't travel
pregnant. I do. I can and I do travel. I
just don't want to travel to this ankle
biter who's up there saying, "I'll do it
on your platform." Okay, put your money
where your mouth is. The other condition
I had was no smoking. No smoking. No
traveling.
Anyway, they finally let that go and um
I respectfully declined. And when Joe
reached out, who's very nice about it,
totally understanding. Andrew then calls
PBD and asks him to moderate because
Michael Nolles said that he wasn't going
to moderate. I immediately said, "Give
me your second, third, fourth option so
we can start reaching out to people."
Andrew reached out to PBD and around
this time the quote unquote Crucible
team begins renegotiating what we've
already publicly agreed to asserting
that they want to have a guaranteed
90 minutes to basically sit me through a
deposition where he can just go at me
and ask me questions and I have to
answer his questions about things that I
have said outside of our debate claims.
Now, we've already addressed that
publicly and I said no. I said, "I'm
happy to answer your questions once we
have exhausted our debate claims, uh,
but we're not going to have some you
sitting down and deposing me." I
actually recommend via email. Again, I
said, "If you want that to happen, you
you're going to have to pass the bar and
join Breijit Mcronone's prosecution team
against me. If that's what you're
aspiring to do, sit me down for a
deposition. You have to become a lawyer
and join her team." Okay? And I said,
"No." And PBD, I'm I'm I'm going crazy
here. I'm like, he is the one that
agreed to all of this publicly, made me
do this publicly, and is now trying to
change things. So, at that point, since
PBD accepted being the moderator, he
suggested that everyone get on a
FaceTime call to work through these
details. So, we have basically an
emergency FaceTime call um on Tuesday
evening and I explain a detail.
Suddenly, he's acting differently. I
think just having the presence of me now
looping in PBD on these emails, he's
like, "Oh, yeah, no, it's fine. I don't
need to, you know, ask her questions or
do anything like that or add that to the
contract. I just want to make sure that
there will be time for me to address,
you know, generally speaking some of her
conspiracies. And I said over and over
again, I don't mind answering your
questions. I we're going to be
dialoguing like we're not you're not
sitting me down and questioning me and I
want to make sure we at first and
foremost address the case. That's what
people are here to listen to. And I
explained in detail on this call and PBD
has two members from his team on the
call as well, Tom as well as um his
executive assistant. I explained in
detail thoroughly that my house is very
small. I explained to him why uh we are
not allowing them to film anywhere but
inside of this exact studio. My kids
live here. They homeschool here. Um and
this is something that you just have to
respect, but I understand you're
paranoid. Um, we have a very small small
formerly HVAC closet control room, but
we will create a spot to address your
paranoia for your team. They will be
able to listen. They'll be able to hear
everything and so that you know that
there's no funny business going on and
you're welcome to basically record
within the studio so that in the event
that we try to trick you or do
something, you will have captured it.
And he's fine with that. He gets off, we
get off the phone, everything is done.
contract gets officially signed on
Thursday. Okay, what could possibly go
wrong? You're thinking, right, because
tomorrow is Friday. Well, sometime on
Thursday, my producer is like, it's kind
of weird that we don't have a point of
contact. We are still dealing with a
faceless team. No one has reached out to
ask for our address. We also need the
names because we have security and we
need to know who they're bringing. So,
the the faceless people have to become
real people. And we end up asking PBD's
team to provide us a number for Andrew
Wilson. We get a number and
it's Andrew's number and he says reach
out to this number which seemingly
belongs to no one. They will not
identify themselves. So my producer is
now texting an anonymous somebody. We
try to run the number to figure out who
we're speaking to. It appears to be a
burner phone. The person just they're
just I guess they want to surprise us
with who they're bringing to the house.
And I can't even imagine this. I can't
even imagine this scenario where someone
has expressed to you, my children live
here, they sleep here. This is our
personal home. Like, we are going to,
you know, have a studio outside of this
in the near future, but for now, this is
what we have. Now, over the course of
this conversation with this faceless
individual, the person immediately
begins getting rude with my producer and
insisting, again, this is on Thursday,
this is the night before, that they're
going to need a desk. They're going to
need a place to set up Andrew's live
stream. Excuse me. You're They're saying
they're now going to need an HDMI cable
that's going to run um out of our studio
into the control room so they can set up
a computer into a camera and live
stream. They need access to power. They
say uh they being the anonymous people,
I don't know who we're speaking to. And
I almost lost it. I just went like this
is absurd. They still will not answer
who they are bringing. And I said, 'We
have never agreed to allow them to set
up a live stream in our home to write a
desk in HDMI. What are we even talking
about? And the person replies that they
thought it was implied because our
contract says the debate will be live
streamed.
Yeah, the debate is going to be live
streamed like my show is live streamed
every day because you thought we were
going to trick you and put it behind a
payw wall. Why would you think that
implies that you can set up a mini
studio in my home after I've gone
through such pains to express to both
you and PBD's team how small the space
is and how we don't have any room? I kid
you not. Okay.
So, when did this anonymous team decide
to email us rather than trying to, you
know, force my producer to just
accommodate them? When were they going
to email us about this assumption? 9:15
p.m. the night before. 9:15 PM the night
before the debate with a follow-up email
sent at 11:15 p.m. And still at no point
will they identify who the four people
are despite the fact that we asked
multiple times in email um and via text
who are you bringing into my home where
my children lie their head. So it's now
debate day. We still get no answers, no
identity of who they're bringing. They
want to surprise us. That's that's very
apparent. And I just want to say I
cannot comprehend how degenerate and
disrespectful uh you have to be to do
that. I just I would never do that to
anybody no matter how I felt about them.
So we just made sure that they were not
welcomed through the front door. We
normally just welcome everybody through
the front door and said we they had to
go through the back through the basement
door because why would I allow anyone to
be so unnecessarily disrespectful? Then
we figure out why. And then it starts to
make sense because he shows up with
Steven Crowder's team. Steven Crowder's
producer, CEO, regular onair talent
feature who spends all day mean tweeting
me. He's actually like the CEO of
whatever it is Steven Crowder thinks he
does anymore. If you don't know who
Steven Crowder is, he's basically a
child actor who never stopped being a
child actor. It's a 40-year-old man and
he just likes to prank people. And this
is exactly his brand of just doing
something this disrespectful for no
reason. And I mean when I say
disrespectful and I'm not even like
Gerald Morgan is who he brought is who
he brought with him. Um I didn't he was
not rude to me but could you imagine?
Okay. um that despite me detailing why
we wanted no filming outside of this
studio and saying you can film in the
studio, Gerald decided to do a live
callin from my kids' playroom just
outside the studio. It was one of the
reasons we said no smoking. We made it
clear to them my children's playroom,
which is the garage area, is just
outside and you can't smoke cigarettes.
Like all of this was made clear. He this
was the their big plan is to get views
for Stephen and to disrespect me. you
can go back. And so I I I I still am
just amazed that this is something that
like grown men would be plotting and
planning for clicks and views. It's it's
so disgusting.
But at the very least, it allowed me to
understand why there was so much
paranoia, why there was all this weird
communication, all this unnecessary
scheming, because I that's his brand.
That is literally his brand. He's just
not an honest dealer. He's a part of
that bizarre group of middle-aged men
who are fixated with me. I just never
have been interested in Stephen Crowder.
I just I genuinely like I don't follow
his stuff. I've never been on a show. I
just it's I that brand of never growing
up and thinking that it's funny to be to
do like pranks and it's not it's grow
up. You know, his brand sort of crashed
and burned uh when he was caught on a
doorbell cam berating his eight-month
pregnant now ex-wife when she was
pregnant with twins. And he never really
recovered from that. And so I guess the
way that he thought he would recover is
by plotting against another very
pregnant person to sort of like break
into her house in a weird way and like
so you could have inside scoop on a
debate rather than just maturely
emailing and saying like why would you
sneak into someone's house? Like I it
still boggles the mind. Why would you
try to sneak into someone's house
because you want clicks and views?
because you don't have the manhood or
the decency to say, "Hey, look, you said
I could bring four people and I'm going
to bring someone that you don't like and
someone who's been nasty to you online,
but that's my prerogative." I would have
said, "Yeah, you're right. It's your
prerogative. Could you just make sure
this person doesn't, you know, film
here?" Whatever. They did not do that.
And it was actually in complete
violation to what we agreed to because
one thing the contract did stipulate was
no filming outside of this studio. Um,
anyway, I kept it professional. We were
kind to everyone because if nothing
else, it did give me the confidence to
know that Andrew was surrounding himself
and taking advice from very unserious
people who like to play pranks
essentially. And I think that we saw the
fruits of that during the debate
immediately, that that was their plan to
sort of play tricks to win. And I do
want to say just to be super fair here.
The team uh particularly he had in the
control room, he was very kind, very
professional. Even Gerald, he was kind
and professional to my face. But the
just what you're doing, the exercise of
what you're doing here, um is just a
level of disrespect that I don't think
I've I've ever dealt with. And if it
wasn't for me um knowingly moving out of
this house in a couple of weeks or so, I
probably would not want these kinds of
people to know where I live because you
just don't have respect for children.
Now, regarding the debate, I do want to
say this. By the time Andrew Wilson
whipped out his phone and read that
opening statement, it was clear to me
that he was going to lose. As soon as he
said the like much trafficked quotation
of you're going off vibes and dreams and
no evidence, I knew that he was
completely unfamiliar with my content.
Like he just decided to go to turning
point and say I'll do this and I'll be
bacho and had done no research. And I
also had this micro win because earlier,
if you remember, I had said that one of
the terms that I wanted that I ended up
conceding was um I wanted turning point
to claim their horse. I wanted them to
say that this is our guy and he said he
didn't want that done. We all knew that
he was being sent by Erica and company,
but he refused that term and said he had
nothing to do with them. And then in the
first three minutes of the debate, he
makes it perfectly clear that Turning
Point USA is backing him with this
totally awkward I have a
never-before-seen message uh wherein he
just kind of makes Erica Kirk look like
a big fat liar. Take a listen.
>> I hold in my possession never before
seen messages from Charlie Kirk to his
security team on September 9th, 2025.
I'm going to share the message with you
today, which is the first time this
information's ever been publicly
revealed.
>> On September 9th, Charlie security team
wrote to him, "Yes, law enforcement has
been fully supportive and agreed to uh
security plan and posture. Tomorrow's
event will be covered by both my team
and the campus PD. If additional support
is required, patrol units will be
available. I have 11 on site." Charlie
responded with this. Okay, great. remind
them that they are there for one
person's security only because I'm
somewhat worried the left is trying to
kill me. That was a message sent
September 9th. We we knew that there was
always going to be a threat, but Charlie
and I always we promised each other we
would never live in fear. And he would
say, "If they're going to get me,
they're going to get me." But he was not
messaging people the day before saying,
"I'm going to be murdered. They're
coming after me. Someone's going to kill
me." He didn't. He didn't say that. And
I have his cell phone.
>> So, for those of you who watch this
show, that was the original Turning
Point USA sin. That was that was the
first episode that I did going after
Erica and I explained to people that she
was lying. I said, "She's lying. There's
no way that I know that this text
message exists and that this text
message was sent from Dan Flood and she
doesn't. This is in December. This is in
December that she's joining Glen Beck
mid December that she is joining Glen
Beck and asserting that she has his
phone. And then Turning Point uh tried
to claim which we met days after because
that's when I went this is weird. days
after that is when Erica then came to
Nashville and we had this summit and
what she told me which how Andrew is
making a very very bad mistake here. She
said well um it was on Signal and the
team's messages autodelete on Signal and
she didn't know. So I guess Dan Flood
didn't tell her. I guess uh Andrew
Kovette who was giving messages that he
thought was relevant to the police
didn't think to give them a message that
said the left is going to kill me. But
particularly when we sat down she was
like have you seen the message? And I
said no. And she said oh it said the
left and it was on signal. And I told
you guys that was a double lie. She lied
again. The message was actually sent on
iMessage. Well Andrew says he's going to
be dropping this message because he
actually didn't want to show the message
for some reason. He wanted this big sort
of weird opening where people are going
to go and everyone just thought it was
really strange, really strange for
Turning Point USA to not have presented
that message, which actually
if they really had a message that said
this, their entire narrative has been
the left to kill Charlie Kirk. Why
wouldn't you share that? That seems
weird. Why didn't you share that with
authorities when you were sharing
messages? and and Andrew were supposed
to believe you didn't tell her for four
months, but you told me in September and
Erica went on Glenn Beck to debunk me
and say I was a liar and now it's just
looking real bad for Turning Point USA.
So fingers crossed, guys, because I
always have a surprise. Fingers crossed
that Andrew, who has promised that he's
going to release this on his show cuz
he's got evidence, actually does release
that message, which is supposed to be on
Signal, but I know for a fact is on
iMessage. So, yeah. Anyway, moving on.
As soon as the actual debate begins, I
sort of declined to do an opening
statement because it was just weird that
he did that. It had nothing to do with
the debate claims, of course. It was
just taking cheap shots at Candace.
The first thing he does is he conceds
that there's reasonable doubt that Tyler
Robinson did this. PBD asks asks us
explicitly uh what percentage do you put
this at? And here is what Andrew Wilson
says.
>> Just out of curiosity, are you between 0
to 100? What is the likelihood that you
think Tyler Robinson shot Charlie Kirk
and killed him?
>> Based on the evidence right now, um I
don't know. I'd say 75 85%.
Okay, I win the debate.
So, I guess the evidence is not so
overwhelming. We went from overwhelming
to 75%. That's reasonable doubt. Let
this man off. What? What are we even
talking about? Who has ever been like,
"Yeah, 75% was overwhelming." Hey, uh,
how would you rate that restaurant? Like
75%,
I was overwhelmed with how delicious the
food was. And I put it at 75%. Like,
what are what are we talking about? Why
are we here? And I realized that he
didn't really know why he was here. He
didn't have any sort of a debate
strategy other than to lie with
confidence. It was just amazing to me
how many times this man thought that he
could just lie not only about things
that were happening in the case, but
also about what was happening currently
in the room during the debate. Like
we're sitting here and he just was like,
"I'm a wizard. I'm a wizard. I I have
magic I have a magic wand and I can just
convince audiences they didn't or did
just hear something that happened 5
seconds ago. It was bonkers. I mean, the
amount of people that were like, "This
is a strong sign of somebody with
narcissistic personality disorder to
confidently lie and try to gaslight
you." Take a listen to just two times he
did this.
>> You wrote the car pulling in. That's a
totally blur image.
>> Um Robinson getting out of it. You have
no idea if that's Tyler Robinson. The
fact that he is seen four other times on
camera, the fact being just a standard
white boy with brown hair was seen
getting walking upstairs. The DNA on the
roof. We should discuss that. And on the
screwdriver that he left behind, it's
overwhelming, man.
>> Yeah, but that's not an exhaustive list.
>> Just so we're clear, you did tweet it,
>> but it's not an exhaustive 5 seconds
ago. You should
>> You said I only said this one thing and
said that that was overwhelming.
Actually,
>> that's not what I said.
>> It is. You could even pull your own. C
can you can you fact check if that was
said or not? I did not hear her say
>> no the thing
>> you listed on your own Twitter that what
you found to be convincing was something
that looked like his car pulled into the
driveway. A blurry image I didn't
standard white guy coming up the steps
that could literally be anyone.
>> This never happened for you though to
say that anybody's a girl boss, right?
That's like the calling black.
>> That came out of your mouth.
>> No, that was you. You brought up girl
boss. girl boss came out of your mouth.
>> It's a bizarre criticism. Like, nobody's
in the bigger girl boss position than
you.
>> Yeah, I'm actually in
>> the biggest of the girl boss positions.
Like, you don't have to do this. You
just do do this. You could definitely
not do it at all and be fine.
>> He literally came out of his mouth. I
never said girl boss. I was just
answering and asking him to explain away
how he shifted his position on now he
suddenly supports Erica being a CEO and
then he started bringing up a girl boss
and he did this so many times it was
stunning and people were just going why
maybe he has amnesia maybe it's not a
strategy and he has amnesia but to just
assert something with such confidence
and to keep lying over and over again
was just shocking to me uh we were
probably less than an hour into it when
I realized by the way that he was not
okay because I wanted to address that
this bizarre strategy of public
gaslighting. And he again wrongly but
ever confidently filled in the wrong
blank when I said, "Are you" and this
actually ended up being one of my
favorite moments. Take a listen.
>> You didn't mention that I mentioned the
screwdriver, DNA, all these other
things. You never mentioned any of that.
So, no, you're actually incorrect there.
But on top of that, moving over to the
actual evidence itself,
>> are you uh
>> Yes, I'm okay. Anyway, back to the
evidence.
>> You're okay. Actually, I'm glad you're
asserting that you're okay. I wasn't
worried about your health.
>> I really don't think by that time he was
okay. It was already apparent to me that
he was kind of coming apart and he
didn't really have an argument and it
was very obvious that he did not watch
the preliminary hearing or any hearing
for that matter. This is why he could
not comprehend the contradiction of him
claiming and calling people conspiracy
theorists. you're a conspiracy theorist
and it's because of the way that you're
looking at evidence. You're making
inference in inferences off of that
evidence. That's his whole thing. He
couldn't comprehend the hypocrisy of
that when in fact he was doing the exact
same thing. If all of his evidence was
being derived, which he felt was
overwhelming, was being derived from a
hearing wherein the prosecution was
doing just that, looking at evidence and
interpreting it however they wanted, a
blurry image of a white man with brown
hair. I think that's Tyler Robinson.
Okay. I think that's not Tyler Robinson.
He calls one a fact and the other one a
conspiracy theory. This was the whole
point of a hearsay of the uh hearsay
Utah 112. And if he had watched how many
times they discussed this 1102 rule, it
was basically like, yeah, we allow this
at this stage, it's probitative, he
would have understood why I was pointing
out this hypocrisy. But he quite
literally could not grasp that concept
in a way that was frustrating for me in
so much that I had to tell him I can I
can explain it to you but I cannot
understand it for you. Right? We all
have our professional limitations. This
is one of mine. I cannot it it's like
being in a class and you just have that
one student that's not grasping
something that seems to the rest of us
to be a really easy concept and he's
going I don't understand. Why do you
keep saying it's here? What is 11:02?
What is this? What does it matter?
because this grants us all the ability
whether inside or out of the courtroom
to look at evidence and then to infer
upon that evidence. In fact, that's what
people are doing in a in in any court
case. Actually, both sides are doing
that. They're just they're in dispute.
One side is saying I infer this, one
side is saying I infer the opposite and
here is the evidence and the jury makes
a decision.
Anyway, it was very clear to me that
because he was weak on the case and
didn't know anything, he wanted out of
debating the evidence altogether. He
didn't want to talk about the degraded
prince who says, "So what?" So what?
What do you mean, so what? I'm I'm
trying to tell you why there is just as
much evidence here. The evidence that
you say is enough to say that he did it
to say that he was set up as a psy.
That's I'm trying to prove my claim, but
he said, "Nope, let's go to a new
phase." And it was the next phase was
very reminiscent to me of when you learn
a new vocab word and you just want to
use it. It was like a term he had just
learned yesterday or something and that
term was positive evidence. He just
thought that if I keep saying it, people
at home will think I'm really smart and
intellectual and frankly it just came
across as bizarre. Like this is just a
little little bit of him saying positive
evidence.
Let's talk about the uh foreign legion.
>> Sure.
>> Was the foreign legion do you believe
trying to kill you?
>> Yes, that's why I reported it to the
correct officials in government. That's
what I was told and I handed over that
information to Tulsi Gabbard's office.
>> What's your best piece of evidence for
that?
>> Well, it was
>> positive evidence.
>> This would be at a professional
limitation for me to then go and probe
that information that I handed over. I
can't do that. I'm not the
>> You don't have any positive evidence of
that?
I don't you can you just stop? It's it's
actually just like annoying to hear you
keep saying positive evidence.
>> Do you have any positive evidence
whatsoever that Israel killed Charlie
Kirk?
>> That he stopped and ate at Chick-fil-A,
which if you are into LGBTQ issues
wouldn't be your lunch before you go
kill Charlie Kirk for LGBTQ issues. Uh
because you know
>> Yeah. But you have positive evidence and
>> we cannot say for certainty that Israel
called the shots and this is how it
happened. But it is definitively I think
a threat that a lot of us would like to
see.
>> There's no positive evidence. Don't you
think that like tens of thousands or
hundreds of thousands of people would
want to know what Candace Owen's
positive evidence for why it is that
Israel and France were involved in the
most traumatic public assassination of
Jenz's lifetime is? She had no positive
evidence Israel's involved in anything.
No positive evidence that um France is
involved in anything. No positive
evidence TPUSA is involved in anything.
No positive you have evidence that Erica
Kirk is involved in anything.
>> Genuinely like it was maddening. I just
could you just stop saying that term?
You do not sound smart. Just you don't
need positive evidence for your
opinions. You just don't. You're like,
"Hey, I think chicken sandwiches are
better than cheeseburgers." But what's
your positive evidence? Well, I just I
just think that Well, what's your You
have to have positive evidence. How
would I have to have positive evidence
for me receiving a threat and me taking
it to the authorities? Could you imagine
if the world worked like that? Like you
receive a threat and and and someone's
like, "Hey, you should know if this
person is plotting to kill you." And you
go to the police station and you're
like, "Here, here's here's a person who
told me this. He's he's going to kill
me." And the police are like, "What's
your positive evidence?" My positive
evidence I'm reporting the threat,
officer. I like I don't know how I I
want you to do your job now and go
figure out if this is viable. They're
telling me this. Well, what's your
positive evidence? My positive evidence
is me coming to you with the evidence
that I have and expecting you to
investigate it because that's your duty.
I mean, that limitation, it was really
funny. I I saw a meme. I think we're
going to actually show it later of
people just being like, "Does you think
that people the the if you think the FBI
is involved and you think that they plan
this assassination that the government's
going to help you find the positive
evidence for this stuff?" like, "Well,
JFK, I guess it was all above board
because you have to have positive
evidence and only the CIA can give you
that positive evidence and they've
blacked out the documents, so you just
can't you can't speculate about it." I
mean, it's just bonkers. Yeah, I'm I'm
allowed to think what I think about
Erica Kirk. I think she's suspicious.
And then I remind him, I flip the script
and I say, "Well, what's your positive
evidence for you having asserted, as he
did before he went to Turning Point USA
headquarters in May, he tweeted that he
thinks that Erica Kirk is too
to kill her husband." And so I'm like,
"Well, what's your positive evidence for
that? Are you allowed to just have
opinions?" And then he's like, "Oh, I'm
allowed to have opinions." And he says
he thinks that all women are are
retards. And sure, if you you're sitting
across from me that you're paying
$100,000 an hour to speak to, I don't
think anyone's walking away thinking
that women are dumb in this situation.
That's my opinion. I have no positive
evidence, but I think most people walked
away and thought you were the idiot.
Anyway, next, he um did what he was
obviously censored to do, and you could
just see his whole posture is changing.
He's not feeling confident. He realizes
he just said the words positive evidence
too many times. Nobody cares. No one
thinks you're brilliant. And it's quite
annoying. And then it moves to this
phase where it's very obvious to me that
he is trying to entrap me in a lawsuit
by getting me to complete sentences in a
way that would fall into legal
defamation. Right? He's asking me and
he's surprising me. And this is very
Steven Crowder coded like to have clips
just so you guys in the background. We
told them if you want to send us clips
ahead of time and as you saw we had no
clips planned. We just said we just want
fact checkers in there because there may
we may arrive at certain points where we
dispute what we're saying and rather
than going back and forth with like yes
they did say this or yes she did or
Kathy Messer did we can just ask them to
do a quick fact check and because
there's a lot of information going on in
this case and sometimes you just
genuinely forget things as I did
genuinely I didn't accuse him of lying I
said I don't remember uh the text about
the surveillance thing can we get a fact
check on that and we did that that was
the purpose of having fact checkers
never did I imagine of course because he
didn't share who his team was or I maybe
would have considered it that he was
what he really spent his time doing
while I was prepping for the debate. He
was prepping to try to do some gotcha
clips and to come in as Erica Kirk's
lawyer. You know, she he I'm not with
Turning Point USA, but if I I got to get
you on record with defaming Turning
Point USA. And he did this in a way that
could not have been more obvious of
trying to sort of trick me into a
lawsuit. Take a listen. Do
>> you have any evidence that Erica Kirk or
TPUSA participated in the murder of
Charlie Kirk?
>> I've never said they participated in the
murder of Charlie Kirk. So, how could I
say that I have evidence they
participated in the murder of Charlie
Kirk?
>> Okay. So, then you don't believe that
they did.
>> I never have said that statement. So,
I'm not going to get you to ask me
personal questions about things that
I've never said on record.
>> Okay. That officer, the first officer
that was up on the roof,
>> do you remember his name?
>> Officer Bagley.
>> Yeah. What was his first name?
>> Christopher. Christopher. Um, when
Christopher got up on the roof, you talk
a lot about how his camera died.
>> Well, he talked a lot about that during
>> his camera died. Yeah.
>> Do you think that he planted that
screwdriver up there?
>> No.
>> No. Who do you think planted it?
>> I if we're just going on my Am I allowed
to have an opinion?
>> Of course. Uh, at this stage, I would
say that I I don't buy his um assertion
on the stand that he didn't check to see
if anybody went onto the rooftop before
um he got up there. I I do think that
it's possible. It's at least plausible
that the the uh screwdriver was planted.
I don't believe him. What I can say
strongly is that his uh cam died at just
the right time. His body cam died at
just the right time. I think that as you
were just grilling me about whether or
not I had got the merchant receipt for a
debit card, that kind of makes difficult
that we just have to sort of trust that
a screwdriver was found and we don't
have any should be evidence of a police
body cam. That right there is why it is
impossible for me to think that Erica
Kirk is not complicit somehow. Cuz what
>> that those two thoughts actually don't
even follow. How would it be the case
that even if Erica Kirk did believe that
Tyler Robinson was 100% responsible for
the death of Charlie Kirk, let's just
say she believed it with every fiber of
her being, believed all the evidence,
cuz she did. She just actually did.
>> Would it then follow that somehow she's
complicit in his death?
>> I didn't say complicit in death. You
added those two words.
>> Okay. So, what's she complicit in?
>> Yes. Look at his face. You could just
see it. You could just see the
dishonesty there, right? So, what she
complicit, it's like that sentence was
so planned. That was so planned.
Complicit in his death. That's not what
we were discussing. We were talking
about the fact Erica, I forgive him,
implies that Tyler Robinson is guilty.
Tyler Robinson is up for the death
sentence. And when you are someone who
is going around signaling to the public
that this person did it, and we assume
that you have more evidence, you've seen
something, which was the broad
assumption as I explained, and it comes
to find out that you had nothing
different than the public had, people
are going to go, "This feels wrong. This
feels like wrongdoing." Like you're you
you're potentially, you know, getting a
jury could what could be a jury to
believe that this is the person who
committed murder and the consequence he
will face is death. So, I could just see
that move there if that was so daily
wire coded, I would say. Um, they love
lawsuits, they love legal enttrapments.
That's what that felt like to me. And I
could sense it from a mile away. And
then I could sense that he was growing
frustrated that I would not take the
bait. I'm smarter than that. And I then
called him out for having played three
Erica clips like in a row. You're
sitting here saying you're not here on
behalf of of Turning Point USA. But you
start with an opening text that only
Turning Point USA could have given you
that they have not given to the public.
And now you're playing three clips in
defense of her. Yeah. That then led to
because he started getting agitated that
I didn't take the bait. So he's like
failed on one, he's failed on two. That
then led to the internet's most awkward
silence where he just says that I'm not
allowed to speak. And by the way,
because he lies with confidence, people
who were watching this thought that
there must have been something
contractually that prevented me from
speaking or allowed him to pepper
questions at me. Both are false. That's
what makes this especially funny. There
is absolutely no contract clause that I
allowed him to sit me for deposition
because I I refused it immediately. I
was like, "That just sounds crazy." And
there was no contract clause that
suggested that I couldn't ask him
questions at any point in our
discussion. Not even kind of sort of. He
was just genuinely coming apart and
growing really antsy. And he lies with
so much confidence that the internet
just assumed like, "No, there must be
something." No, I I there was nothing.
Here's that painful painful internet
silence.
>> Yeah. I I mean, can I ask a question? I
know it's been or or like can I ask a
question? Are we
>> not really? We're I'm just going to
we're going to hold to the actual
contract itself.
>> The contract is does not say that you
are allowed to just question me without
me being able to respond to you.
>> I've never said you can't
>> or have a conversation.
>> You've been able to respond to every
question I've asked you. And by the way,
the the other thing is is like
>> let's have it your way. I want it to
look like we've done everything Andrew
wanted to so that people can fairly
assess the situation. So you have it
your way. I will not ask a question.
>> Totally fair with me.
>> So are you Goodwood who are asking the
question or no? He said no. Waiting for
the clip.
>> Okay. So you want to wait for the clip
first.
>> Okay.
>> You guys have it in the back.
>> Okay. Beautiful.
You need the Jeopardy team told me they
had it. So
>> that's what I heard.
>> Okay, there we go.
>> Come on, guys.
>> Like was so painful. So what I think
happened was cuz I called him out. I I
said like you have four Erica Kirks and
he was like it wasn't four and PBD is
like it was three. I think what happened
was they had another Erica Kirk in Q and
then they just abandoned it. They just
were like we can't run this and so then
they ran this totally irrelevant uh what
was supposed to be a Lance bomb but I
naturally corrected myself very early on
in our discussion. Um and I didn't
realize that he was plotting this as
some like big explosion like K has got
it wrong. They never officially said
that Lance's DNA was on the rifle and so
they just kind of played that and it was
weird and I allowed it. I totally
allowed the silence because a never get
in the way of your opponent when they're
making a mistake. It was such a
completely nutty thing to say and to do.
No, I'm just going to wait for the clip.
You can't say anything. And it was a
lie. And I thought, let him do this
because it's just going to demonstrate
his emotional instability that he is
trying to assert control because he
knows that he's lost it. Also, I was not
going to argue with him about a
non-existent contract clause and waste
energy. I mean, the out just debate
about the contract seemed ridiculous.
And lastly, if you consider it, I made
$41863
during that 16-second silence. What is
there to complain about? You want me to
be quiet? What do you Okay, okay, I got
you. I'll be silent. That's a lot of
money to make to be quiet. Then came the
most viral moment after he um permitted
me to speak again after the clip was a
nothing burger. It and it happened
accidentally. Okay. So I felt bad that
viewers had to listen through him sing
for Erica for so long. We had agreed to
discuss this case. I as you know had
said to him, "We should discuss the
screwdriver. We should discuss the
towel." And I tried to then change the
topic back to the case. And I made the
wrong assumption that Andrew Wilson had
read the last filing, the filing for
dismissal, which dropped 2 days before
our debate. And my positive evidence for
that assumption was that Andrew Wilson
himself had tweeted about the filing as
though it was helpful to his case. He
tweeted about the filing and they were
all lying about what the filing was. And
here he retweeted um somebody else who
said skimmed it. The Tyler Robinson
dispense defense is on absolute life
support. And then he wrote back, "Picked
a hell of a week." So I was like,
"Obviously,
he he must have read this filing." And I
read through the filing and just to show
you,
as I do with everything, for those of
you guys who've been following me since
the Blake thing, marked it up, took
notes, and thoughts there were some
really compelling arguments here. So I
like came prepared that we were going to
discuss the most recent filing as one of
his wrong talking points that the Tyler
Robinson admitted to the text messages
being real or one thing or another.
So, um, I also just sort of thought that
even if he didn't read the book, he
would have at least read the last
chapter before taking the exam. You know
what I mean? Every person knows that if
you're going to try to BS and pretend
that you read the book, you better read
the last chapter in case a character
dies before you try to write an essay,
right? And I was wrong. I was floored
when I saw him again do that obvious
tell of his false bravado. He just lies.
Of course, the the manner that this man
lies, it should be taught in a in a
psych course. I've I've never seen
anything like it. And I and I just
recognized it. Now, I was familiar with
his style. When I asked him which charge
specifically he thought Tyler Robinson
was guilty of, it was because I wanted
to make sure I didn't make an assumption
that he was more flexible in other
areas. As we as we dove into this recent
filing and he when he did the false, of
course, bring it up. I went, "Oh,
he doesn't know any of them." And so,
this obviously became the most discussed
moment. This man came in to debate Tyler
Robinson's guilt and did not know guilty
of what? Take a listen.
Which one of the charges against or or
all of them do you think Tyler Robinson
is guilty of?
>> Um, the specific charge.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. So, I think what I think is that
um Tyler Robinson shot Charlie Kirk.
>> Yeah. But of the seven charges that he's
he's being charged.
>> Yeah. Can we list them real quick? I'll
tell you exactly which ones. We'll pull
them up.
>> Well, do do you know any of the charges
he's up for right now?
>> Yeah, of course. But I want to make sure
that we have them listed.
>> Yeah. But but like that's can you name
one? Because my my general perspective
is that you don't actually care about
this case. You're not following it.
That's the that's the question. You're
just not following it enough. It seems
pretty like if you're going to engage
and you're going to say the evidence is
overwhelming that Tyler Robinson is
guilty. I just think that you should
like Can you tell me one
>> then? Let's do the counter. You can
really hang out. This is a great
>> No, no. You just got to ask me play
clips out of context. Put me in the hot
seat. So, please just answer the
question.
>> Fair. Name all seven since you've been
following the case.
>> Okay. Sure. You name You name one.
>> Yeah, you name all seven.
>> I'm happy to do that, but can you name
one?
>> Uh, I think he's I think he's been
charged with murder.
>> That's actually incorrect.
>> Okay, great. Now, name all seven. He
doesn't even This is like
>> Name all seven
>> and and and I I
>> Can you name all seven?
>> I I can't.
>> Then do it.
>> Sure. You don't have to put
>> it. No, do it. I'll count them. Go
ahead.
>> You don't have to put your fingers up. I
>> Okay, hang on. Name them.
>> Yeah, sure.
>> Name them.
>> Uh the first charge is aggravated murder
because that's what carries the death
sentence in the state of No, that's not
that is literally not murder.
>> Okay.
>> And so just people No, don't I don't
have to do it in a time limit. There's
nothing going on. And just to explain to
people the difference of why that really
matters and shows that he doesn't
actually care about this at all is
because aggravated murder uh it's it's
narrowly defined and it carries a death
sentence. I'm not I'm going to answer
the question. You're just going to
recognize that your strategy of thinking
that people are intimidated when you try
to put a time constraint doesn't work
and you'll be better the next time you
debate.
>> I got it. I got it. Give me Give me the
other ones.
>> If the more you cut me off, the longer
I'll take. Do you want to just wait for
me to finish of why that's a big
difference? So that
>> I want you to list the charges.
>> Yeah, I'm going to do that. You just
don't get to pretend that there's a time
constraint for me to do that.
>> Well, how how long does it take you to
list seven charges?
>> I'm cuz I'm speaking. You just got to
>> It sounds like you're just delaying it
because you don't know them.
>> I I know all seven of them. And I'm
going to say again cuz you're going to
get embarrassed. I You don't have to
rush this. I'm also showing an example
of a very flawed debate strategy. I
actually am under no time constraint.
>> I got one.
>> Great. The second charge is the felony
discharge of a weapon. Uh the next two
charges are for obstruction of justice.
Okay.
>> The next two charges are for witness
temp tampering. And the final
>> What's the specific charges though?
>> That is them. Obstruction of justice.
Obstruction of justice. Witness
tampering. Witness tampering.
>> Okay. W And there's no other specifics
to them.
>> Well, we I can tell you why he's being
>> No, no, no. Just the the charges and
then seven.
>> Yeah. See, the bad thing is when you try
to be an a-hole and it doesn't work.
>> What's the seventh?
>> The last charge is uh violence in front
of a minor.
>> Okay. Got it. So then he's being charged
with murder.
>> Shook, shaken. I I mean, like, it's just
I can't even imagine what it must be
like. I mean, I know his wife is equally
as bad, but just he's just such a liar.
Like, why why say of course? Why not
just say I actually don't know the
specific charges? Which would have been
crazy, but he then he just he it's this
false provider. This is how he debates.
He just lies confidently and just lies.
And then when you recognize it and you
call him out, I'm a lie. He falls apart
and he starts sticking more and more and
more into the chair, sweating, developed
some things in his teeth, you know, and
I just that entire personality of a man
just could never it could never drive
with me. Like I would never for a single
second be intimidated by that because
it's like I said false bravado. There's
nothing here that's remotely
intimidating. You're just an idiot
dressed up as some like blood sport
debater, bro. Well, there's nothing
weaker than not just saying, "Oh, I
don't know that. I would like to know
what the answer to that is." And I was
hoping we would actually be able to have
that constructive dialogue. I was upset
that we could not spend more time
discussing this case. And once that
happened, he was he was completely
deflated. I mean, Andrew Wilson was very
lost. And it was almost like he had to
remember things they wanted him to bring
up. Um, it was very obvious that his
foot just wanted out. I think his foot
wanted to tell the truth. The foot was
just it wanted out. They were like, "Oh,
the foot holds the truth." you know,
Andrew lies, but the foot is just
doesn't want to be there. His boot, he
was literally shaking in his boots.
Some I don't know what was going on
there. And he couldn't kind of regain
any sort of composure.
I didn't understand anything he was
getting at beyond that. He started that
bizarre inquisition about my show's
timeline, demanding to know why it was
my show's official timeline and why I
had included Tyler Robinson and
Penguitch eating a steak. He I don't
know if he's just averse to
organization. Like I love organizing
timelines make sense to me. I love
highlighting them. I love putting
timestamps. I'm very proud of that. I I
don't know what he was getting at. He
just wanted to know. I'm like, I spoke
to the owner. The owner told me that he
pulled the receipt that it was Tyler
Robinson's receipt. Um and so I included
this on my timeline and then the receipt
that was shared was the real receipt.
And then he's like, "Well, why didn't
you ask the merchant?" Like he's like,
"This is still not evidence. You got to
call you gota you got to call Visa and
Mastercard. I mean, take a listen to
what he said. It was so absurd.
>> Well, the reason I'm asking you is
because you always include it in your
timeline that he traveled to the
steakhouse.
>> Yeah, we've been building a timeline
with things that we feel are
>> But is there any actual
>> You saw 11:02 approved. I think speaking
to the owner, knowing that there's a
receipt, seeing the receipt, uh, is good
enough to put on on our timeline.
>> But the receipt itself, the question I
always had about it is, couldn't you
just call the merchant? Like if I've
ever had a merchant account, I just call
the merchant account processor and say,
"What's the name on this?"
>> Yeah, I would I would stay tuned. I I
feel that the haven't spoken to the
owner that the evidence is compelling
enough to put onto my personal timeline
of what took place on that day. That's
where it's going to stay. And if it gets
debunked, I'm happy to take it off if
that's what you mean. That's how an
investigation works.
>> Um like I said, I did more than enough.
It would definitely pass the test by the
Utah 1102 rule for sure. For certain
>> to be submitted as hearsay.
>> Well, yeah, beyond that cuz they didn't
even have receipts. They were like Bob
told me.
>> But the question But the question is the
receipt itself has not been verified to
have been Tyler.
>> I just want to say you're holding me to
a higher standard than you are.
>> I'm not even holding asking
specifically.
>> Yeah. I I I've been very forthcoming. I
told exactly what happened. I spoke to
the owner. I got the tip and I
>> So, should that be added in an official
timeline that you
>> It's in my timeline. It's my show and we
can add and subtract what we want and we
do if we
>> can do what you want. Sure. But I'm
asking should you include a thing that
you know hasn't actually been verified
to be Tyler Robinson?
>> Yes, you should. If we're trying to
build a timeline, you should Yeah.
>> You don't think that that falls under?
>> You should remove it if you if someone
somehow debunks it. But I think that the
there is very strong evidence that that
is where he was and that
>> What's the strong evidence? Just the two
people who said that they saw him. You
know, I'm I'm actually all good with be
I I I feel like I've sufficiently
answered your question about how I got
the information, what happened next. Uh
would the next stage of this
investigation being somebody accessing
his knowing what his debit card was and
confirming it? Yes. And I do believe
that that will happen. If it does not
happen and it gets debunked, I'll remove
it from my personal timeline that I
share on my show.
>> He's like the first person account of
the server saying that he served him.
They contacted the FBI. He shared his
experience. He recognized Tyler Robinson
on the news. He gave an interview. The
owner, uh, I spoke to him. He said, he's
like, "That none of that is positive
evidence.
I'm legitimately held to a higher
standard than the FBI." Meanwhile, we
got the lead investigator of the case up
there, and they're asking him during the
preliminary hearing, "How did you know
that the maroon person walking up the
stairs was the same person as the
individual who was wearing the black
shirt later that day?" And he says they
were both wearing Converse sneakers.
Andrew says that's compelling. Tweets
that that's a part of the overwhelming
evidence. Okay, they're both me. Did you
call Visa and Mastercard beyond speaking
to all of these people? Beyond the
receipt, did you call to confirm Visa
but the merchant that this was in fact
the Tyler Robinson who was up? No.
Actually, I haven't done that. But you
know what? My timeline's going to stay
my time. I'm proud of my timeline. I'm a
very organized person. My pantry is very
clean. I love the Container Store. I use
label makers for everything. Even my
seasonings in my cabinet. I have label
makers in my refrigerator.
So, I will not allow you to tell me
about how my timeline should be
organized. That's what I want to say. I
almost lost it there. Suburban moms who
have organized pantries, stand up. At
the end of the day, I am so embarrassed
for Turning Point USA. I I I cannot
imagine Erica hugging this person. I've
got I've got to show you guys more clips
of him. He is literally disgusting,
right? and they thought this guy uh was
going to be able to take me down. I was
trained by Charlie Kirk and they sent me
Andrew Wilson.
But I will say on a positive note, it
was bittersweet because it was just
amazing to remember all of those things
that Charlie told me not to do, not to
fall for. Don't start attacking him
personally. I did not engage in that. He
opened with that uh ad hominant attacks
uh against me. Um remembering to always
overstudy like I took it very seriously.
Obviously, I was not playing gotcha
clips. Um, but I was marking up filings,
reminding myself, re-watching the
preliminary hearing, uh, going back to
the timeline to remind myself because so
much has transpired obviously in 11
months. And Charlie used to always tell
me that you see people get crushed in
these sorts of debates who are
overconfident and then there's just like
the one kid who asks a question that
throws them off and it goes viral. So,
never underestimate your opponent. I
didn't know what to expect. Um, and I
didn't obviously not expect that he was
just going to be one of these weird
middle-aged men with gotcha clips. I I
thought he was genuinely going to read
at least one of the case filings or know
what the charge is, but it was it was,
like I said, good to go through that
again. And I to be studying to do the
the thing that he said with the note
cards. I did every single thing uh that
Charlie told me to do and to stay calm
when they're trying to poke you. Be
aware of people that are trying to put
you into these sorts of legal traps. And
it genuinely when it concluded we were
just like cheering. We were so happy. Uh
bittersweet obviously because you I
never thought in any of that um learning
with Charlie that it would one day be me
debating someone that his organization
clearly sent. Uh but such is life and
I'm happy that it is me that is exposing
what his organization has become um in
the wake of his assassination. Anyway,
we'll be right back after a brief break.
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Okay, so much that I want to say about
the reaction on the internet. It was
fantastic. First and foremost, I don't
think the left and right have ever been
united on anything. But in our general
sense of what Turning Point USA has
become, we're united. Genuinely, he
performed so badly. Like, not even the
neocons would touch it. The best they
could do for Andrew Wilson was to say it
was unwatchable. No one I couldn't even
watch it. I couldn't even watch it. So,
it doesn't even matter how anybody did.
Um, and everyone who was backing him
just sort of backed off immediately. And
they're they're doing their best, but
they they can't they can't pretend. Uh,
the memes have been exceptional from the
left and from the right. They have been
exceptional, mocking him. It's amazing
to see. This man is not a conservative,
by the way. I I'm so sick of these like
wannabe
like sealist people that come out and
then just call themselves conservatives,
but obviously live their lives in a way
that is anything but. They're complete
frauds. I'm going to go through some of
my favorite memes. Andrew first off
coming out and declaring that he won
by asking uh not chat GPT he asked
Claude and Claude told him since every
poll said he didn't win with humans. He
then went to Claude and drumed up a
conversation I guess and Claude told him
he really was the winner. He really was
the winner. You everyone who's a human
didn't like you but the robot community
loves you. And um he did tweeted this.
Every AI source will say I won. This was
never in question. specific AI programs
built for this purpose. He actually
ended up getting a fact check on this
and people explained that it's just AI
is scraping from establishment sources
and we all know the establishment is
behind Jingpoint USA. But um there's
just this is just the most pathetic
thing I've ever seen. He literally
crashed markets by the way during the
debate. I didn't know that Poly Market
had odds on whether or not Tyler
Robinson would be convicted. And during
the debates, the odds crashed. That that
represents our debate day. You see that
line going down. That is how poorly he
performed. Tyler Robinson victim of
homicide dropped into the 30s. I think
it hit 34% during our debate. Uh which
was positively hilarious. But um the I'm
going to show you some of my favorite
memes. So you might have seen on the
thumbnail if you are not following this
account. I think it's wear forbidden
clothing is the at handle. I want to
make sure I get that correct. They are
so funny for years actually. I've been
following them. They are so funny. But
this video that they created, this AI
video which went viral this weekend and
which is represented as I said on my
thumbnail just tickled me so much of
Erica calling in uh Andrew after that
abysmal performance. Take a listen and a
watch of this.
>> Wait, wait. I can explain.
>> Shabbad shalom, Andrew.
>> What?
>> We invested a lot in you.
>> I was having nicotine withdrawal. The
chair was uncomfortable. I barely slept.
My foot was
>> silence.
>> She asked you to name one of the seven
charges. You said positive evidence 47
times.
>> It was a framework.
>> 47 times. Andrew,
>> bring me the jar.
>> No.
>> No. Please. Not the pickles.
jars wide shut. And uh just to correct
that, the handle is at whereforbidden
um on X. And the reason why it's jars
wide shut is because this goes back to a
moment where he was being disrespectful
to a woman who couldn't open a jar, I
think it was actually of olives or
pickles on the whatever podcast. And he
was smoking a cigarette and then they
she said, "Okay, then you open it." And
he couldn't open it. So now he's kind of
called pickle boy. And that again, his
false bravado all the time is what gets
him uh into these circumstances. I
absolutely loved that. I also loved the
stages of grief. Everybody grieavves
differently. So he's grieving by first
talking to Claude. The five stages of
debate grief. This is from at alpha
approved. They write denial. I totally
won that debate. Number two, anger. That
was rigged. Biased. Unfair. That's
actually going to happen. His wife. Uh
number three, bargaining. Okay, maybe I
lost, but Candace is worse. Number four,
depression. Why do I even debate? number
five acceptance which will come which
will say he will come out and say all
right maybe I should have prepared maybe
I should have known one of the charges
we are at phase one and we are also at
phase two which I can give you an
example of his wife trying to suggest
that we maybe rigged the mic pieces is
is crazy okay I have one in my ear right
now it allows us to hear what the
producers are saying as I told you uh
his guy Rob who was very professional
and kind so no shade to Rob was sitting
next to them and they were that's why he
was s saying could you pull a clip or
whatever. His team was right next to my
team and these earpieces do not work
beyond 15 ft out of out of the um
control room. So they just and Andrew
will tell you that every time he got up
he had to reset it. They don't work. So
there's no one else that could possibly
be talking in your ear because of the
structure of our walls. Uh, so anyway,
Rachel responds, who's his like horrific
wife, responds to somebody trying to
pretend that I was receiving intel on
that last question because they're still
coping over this. Was Candace Owens
being fed answers? Something about the
debate caught my attention. Both Candace
and uh, Andrew appeared to be wearing
in-ear monitors, so what are these
actually used for? And he kind of goes
through all this. I literally turned
these people into a conspiracy theorist
by the end of it. He started off by
calling us conspiracy theorists. And
then by the end of it, he was going
through my phone and thought that I was
texting people for answers. That's
amazing. That's a flawless victory.
That's a flawless victory to end it with
him suggesting a conspiracy where what I
was actually doing when he came back in
my chair cuz I barely got up. I
literally only got up one time that
entire he went up every break. I did not
get up. I was tweeting. You guys saw me
tweet right before that. I sent one
tweet. I texted nobody during the entire
debate because I I was focused. I was
locked in. But then I was like, I'm
going to send a funny tweet because I
feel pretty confident I won this. And
when he came back, he saw me doing that
and thought that I texted someone. Uh,
which is very funny. And guess what? The
answer to a conspiracy theory, I
demonstrated for him. Here's my phone.
Just answer the question. Make the
person feel comfortable. You don't have
to go crazy. And it's the one thing
Turning Point USA does not want to do at
all is answer any questions. They just
want to send these debate bros, I guess,
out. But this was absolutely hilarious
that that I thought that meme was
fantastic. We also created our own meme
because I used to be anti
Turning Point USA shills. But he's
different. I don't want anybody
referring to Andrew Wilson as a paid
show. Andrew Wilson's not a paid show.
This is like the Drizzy meme. TPUSA
sending paid shills. Not cool. TPUSA
sending shills that pay. We're with it.
We're with it. Send Send more. Turning
Point. That's how you'll show them. Pay
$100,000 an hour to be embarrassed.
genius. What a great idea. That's
amazing. That's my new rate. $100,000 if
you want me to embarrass you. Must he's
must be into that or whatever. Um
anyways, uh his wife had responded to
that and pretended like tried to add to
it like I know that they had headpieces,
but I'm not really sure why they had
these headpieces. I believe the contract
stipulated that each of them was allowed
to wear an earpiece. That's just a lie.
Why do they lie so much? Why do they lie
all the time? No, the earpieces which he
and I were sharing left and right were
just just a producer, our producers, we
all heard the exact same thing and PBD
had a direct line to them. Uh then this
cope was hilarious because obviously
Steven Crowder is somehow invested in
this and you know just never growing up
and he when he did the I guess he was on
the phone with Andrew Wilson right after
the debate was speaking to him. He kind
of tried to imply like one way that we
tried to hurt him was by not providing
him with hair and makeup because he
looked like he was sweating. Like that
was our fault or something. Take a
listen to this absurd exchange.
>> Did they Nixon JFK you? Cuz she has a
full stylist and makeup crew. Did they
give you makeup and uh like No, no, no.
You looked a little bit
>> I would have refused.
>> You looked a little bit shiny.
>> You looked a little shiny.
>> You looked a little shiny.
>> Yeah, it looked a little shiny. It
happens.
>> I don't even know what to say about it's
just it's like first and foremost we do
not have like again asserting something
confidently and lying. I know they have
wardrobe. We do not have and nor have we
ever had wardrobe. We do not have a
full-time makeup artist. We not we do
not have a uh full-time hair stylist.
None of that. So in between takes, I
take care of myself always. That's it.
Everybody knows that my cousin does my
hair. She's the one that gives me the
blowouts and takes care of my hair.
People have known this for years since
before I was even a podcaster. She has
been taking care of my hair. And our
makeup artist was actually off that day.
She does a glamand go though. So it's
like in the morning she comes in and
then she leaves. So this being a point
like like as if PBD somebody was coming
out and flying in and making him look
good and making me look good. That this
is how much these people were coping
like trying to find a conspiracy to make
it seem like there was something that
was not fair. If you look greasy, pull
up a mirror instead of going out and
getting having a cigarette and having a
smoke and, you know, powder your own
face. I don't know what to tell you.
We're a small team and we're just not We
don't care about things like that. We
don't want to spend a bunch of money on
things to make ourselves feel important.
And my favorite of the copes was his
wife conceding exactly what us
conspiracy theorists have been saying
since the very beginning is that
actually the grifters are these people.
They know nothing about the case at all.
they just want to go on TV and say, "Oh,
this person's scared of me. This person
won't debate. They don't know anything."
So, she writes this long tweet. Um, and
it's right there in yellow. She says,
"Of course, Candace will know the
details better." So, she admits I knew
the details better. She's been covering
this day in and day out for 11 months
and doing practically nothing else.
Andrew had about six days to prepare.
There's no way he was going to beat her
on having more knowledge of the details.
Goodness, Rachel. Wow. This is a wife
that like So, she admits that I beat him
on that a which stands against his I won
the debate, but also she admits he
doesn't care about this. He walked into
Turning Point USA headquarters in June
and came out flashing around money and
suddenly tweeting at me and attacking me
because that's what they orchestrate at
Turning Point USA headquarters. This is
no longer a serious organization that
cares about whether or not people are
living their lives admirably. This is no
longer I mean it is crazy to me that if
you just go through the clips and
learning about Andrew and Rachel Wilson
that this is who they tied their horse
to. This is who they're feeding
information to that any person would
willfully donate to them. That any
person would want their child to sign up
for this conservative organization that
is not representing conservative
principles. My opinion, by the way,
where's my positive evidence for it?
Andrew Wilson. Is that positive
evidence? I don't know. What's what what
does it all mean? Can it can it be my
opinion that Turning Point USA is a
dumpster fire? Cuz that's what it is. I
do want to address this very quickly. I
realize we are now way over time. I
don't know if we're going to have time
for book club because I didn't realize I
had so many words to say. But um
people were randomly as soon as I said I
would take it. So first it's she's
scared, she's scared, she's scared.
There's money on the table and that's
what I'm doing wrong. I'm being scared
and not taking the money. Then I take
the money. Exactly what he offers. 300k
and I'm a bad guy because how could I
take the money? These people are insane.
They're just insane. There's no way to
make them happy. They can't leave you
alone and let you just investigate the
case because you got you got to the
money's on the table. And then they they
chastise you for taking the money. And
they were all instantly like Candace
needs to establish a trust for Erica
Kirk. Like the people outside of Michael
Noles, the people that I absolutely
despise, all saying this in unison that
I need to donate this money and
establish a trust for Charlie's
children. Um, and then people just
randomly tell me what I should do with
the money. Like for example, this
person, multi-millionaire Candace Owens,
should donate her victory money to Tyler
Robinson's defense if she really thinks
that he's innocent. Andrew Wilson put
his money where his mouth is. Why
doesn't Candace? Like,
I didn't offer Tyler Robinson publicly,
go across things and say, I'm gonna to
prove to people that I think he's
innocent. I'm gonna give. I never did
that. I I don't do that those sorts of
things. That's not what I do. I'm not
braggadocious. And nor would any person
who knows the least bit about finance be
so stupid as to spend $300,000
uh to have a conversation with someone
who debates for free. Always do my
annual debates with Piers Morgan.
They're for free. Been debating all
across college campus. I was doing that
for free. Um I've had debates with Rabbi
Schmoolie who I can't stand on Piers
Morgan for free. And so it's just so
interesting that actually my entire life
all these people ever do is message me
kindly and respectfully and ask for a
debate. No one has to throw money
around. That's how it works. I've hosted
debates. There's been no money involved.
This is unique because Turning Point USA
just hates me this much and were
obviously uh Blake Nef and Andrew Kvette
were retweeting him as he was going
after me and offering more and more
money. And now they think the solution
to that is for me to open a trust for
Charlie's children, which in a way, I
know it's not, but it feels like
moneyaundering. The organization that's
hunting me. You want me to then give the
money uh to the person who would be in
control of that would at first of course
would be Erica. First and foremost, what
I want to say is there is there are a
few things I despise more than fake
altruism. People who do charity as a
part of a PR program and not because
it's necessary or needed. And Charlie
Kirk's children have been
multi-millionaires while he was alive.
Um, and that increased in his death.
Many people opened trusts, raised uh
money. The last thing that Charlie
Kirk's children need are is more money.
What they need is a stable parent. And
unfortunately, they I can't give them
that, right? I can't give them that. Mom
doesn't want to be home. Uh, dad can't
be home. And the one thing they need is
not a bunch of influencers using them as
a talking point and suggesting that 300
more K could plausibly make a
difference. And like I said, there's
something about it that just feels icky.
Like the very people who sent the person
to hunt you are basically trying to
create a peer pressure campaign for you
to give the money back. Like I just
that's not going to stand for me. And so
instead, what I would like to announce
that I'm doing with my money thus far,
what I've decided, other than the fact
that I did go to Waffle House this
weekend, um is I'm going to take care of
the people who took care of me. Um as
this organization has fixated, sent
influencers is a part and parcel of
these group chats that are coming
together, protect Erica Kirk, of people
who have ma attempted to make our
children feel unsafe that they have
gotten behind, retweeted, supported. Um,
I'm gonna look out for those people.
People like my sister. Um, if you want
an organization that's going to get
money from me, it's going to be the
Catholic Church, the priests that took
care of me emotionally when I was coming
apart with the realization that uh
Charlie and everything that he had
worked for, he was being he's been
betrayed. He has Charlie has been
betrayed. Everybody can see that. You
betray him every single day when you do
this sort these sorts of things. You
betray who he was. uh uh you you betray
the friendships that he had. You lie
constantly about who he was, about the
things that he was thinking. Uh I am not
going to take any instruction from
Turning Point USA uh or any of their
affiliates or any of these neocon dogs
that they send out on what I should do
with money. It's just not going to
happen. So yeah, I'm going to take care
of my sisters. I'm going to give money
to the Catholic Church and then I'm
going to decide what I want to do.
That's it. You were the ones who offered
the money. You were the ones who
retweeted it. And so it's therefore
mine. You can skip all of your fake
altruism. Why don't you guys give more
money to that organization? Because the
direction that they're headed, I don't I
don't see that this is going to be an
organization in 10 years down the road.
I see it crashing and burning like
everybody else does. And like I said,
for the first time ever, the left and
the right are united in their disgust
for what this organization has become.
And that was not a feeling that people
had on the right, especially in the wake
of the assassination. So, you guys did
this. This was your loss, your L. And
that's all I'm going to say about that.
We'll be right back after a brief break.
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Okay. I also want to let you guys know,
we got so many messages. Please sell the
t-shirt. I can explain to you, but I
cannot understand it for you. exhausted
trying to explain this to him. We do
have that available on our website. So,
if you go to kowins.com and you can have
that t-shirt, we have them available.
Um, we also made that a sweatshirt. I
can explain to you, but I cannot
understand it for you. T-shirts,
different sizes of that available. And
of course, a mug, which I can't wait to
get if I can explain to you. Um, and we
also put up this. This is my second
favorite shirt. If you know, you know.
It's in maroon. This is my wear your
second favorite shirt. If you've learned
nothing from this podcast to do bad
stuff, you wear your second favorite
shirt, not your first favorite shirt.
Um, so we have some Doom Betts available
on the website. And that is of course
the easiest way to support us and
support the work that we do and the
investigation, which we can now refocus
on, which was really none of their
business at all. Why turning point USA
doesn't want people investigating um and
exploring other leads in the Charlie
Kirk assassination.
Uh, boggles the mind. It really boggles
the mind. Top comments from the great
debate. Go Max Everyday writes, "Let me
begin by reading this message from my
sponsor, Turning Point USA." Yes, that
is what it felt like. It was absurd. It
had nothing to do with the debate
claims. Know your SC up. Second message.
75 to 85% confident Tyler did. It is
literally reasonable doubt. I am so glad
I didn't even look at the comments. My
producers pulled this that you guys
clocked it as well. It's crazy that they
just concede the entire debate right at
the beginning. So, yes, you have a right
to pursue other leads. No, you do not
have to reach out to Visa and Mastercard
and speak to the merchant to do so. I
want you guys to know that. Um, I may
guys have to I didn't realize we were so
overtime um on Book Club, so we may need
to do that tomorrow. Um, we're finishing
the book and thank you to Book Club for
allowing me to bump Friday to
accommodate the great debate. Comments
from today's episode. True Detective
writes, "Andrew Wilson's rules the
debate. Avoid knowing the facts of the
case. Pretend to be intelligent and
qualified. And don't mind that your left
foot is nodding in agreement with
Candace throughout the conversation. And
question when Andrew's wife makes him a
sandwich, is he expected to open the
pickle bar to pickle jar?
I mean, that relationship is just odd at
space toxic. Like I said, you should go
look up clips of that. Like her
disgusting mouth and the things that she
says on the whatever podcast and how she
speaks and they're branding themselves
as Orthodox Christians. and he said on
some stream that his wife went in and
spoke to the executives at Turning Point
USA. That's why I say Turning Point USA
is just over. Like we we can't this
Christian scop has to end. We just have
to stop pretending. Erica on her face is
I can't get a sentence out without
saying the Lord, the Lord, the Lord.
She's hugging Andrew Wilson. These are
who is being brought into our
organization and given money to uh train
people to debate. I'm sorry people are
clocking that. I'm sorry. It's not
positive. It's not positive evidence,
but it feels like some evidence that the
whole brand is fraudulent now. It feels
like evidence that Turning Point USA is
now essentially trying to sell people
faux Christianity while they behave in
just the most detestable way behind the
scenes. And now it's in front of the
scenes. Like I said, I can't wait for
him to drop that message. They have
themselves in a pickle with that
message. He says he's dropping it this
week. Do your thing, Andrew. Do your
thing. Um, we woke now writes in the
words of my grandmother, "He don't know
no better. Way to stay above the muck."
Yes, I was just not going to meet him on
his level. He came across as petty and
just these men are too old for this.
Like, you know what I mean? He's almost
50. Stephen Grouter's 40. Like, grow up.
Be professional. What are you What are
you all doing with these accounts that
you're dedicating to tweeting about
Candace Owens 90 times a day? Find
something that gives you purpose and go
after it. I don't know you. I don't know
these people. Like, it's crazy. I
literally have never met Steven Crowder.
So, that entire obsession with me is is
just because I covered when he was
bulling his wife and said it was gross
because it was. It just was. Chris
Angelo writes, "One thing that is
actually overwhelming is how proud
Charlie is of you as he smiles from
heaven. The Holy Spirit truly gave you
the patience and discernment needed for
the debate. Keep going, Max, for the
truth and for Charlie Christ." Thank you
for saying that. And like I said, that
was the bittersweet thing is I was
reminded of just I really feel like I
have this, Charlie. No, you should still
go over everything because it just takes
one question and uh for someone to throw
you off your game, you have to stay
updated. And I did all of that. Um and
I'm glad that it worked out. Jenna
wrote, "You were amazing in the debate.
I offered my daily mass and rosary for
you on Friday. I am so proud of you.
Such a role model for my four do for my
four daughters. Christ is king. Yeah,
that's one of the first things I did. I
went to I went to a Saturday mass and
just thank the Lord, you know, just for
the ability
um to communicate in a way and to have
the opportunity to expose what we all
know is going on. And that's by the way
the real purpose of what Andrew was
doing was to distract us uh with
nothingness. They brought no new people
to their side. It just the same
establishment media trying to convince
you that you should not believe your own
eyes and your ears and that's that's
what we have right now. That's what
we're living right now. Riley England
writes, "Canis, what a masterclass for
how gracefully and brilliantly you
defend your convictions with facts. We
all know you did this for Charlie. You
displayed a restraint in a class that I
look up to and you clearly owned
Pickles. Lol St. Jonavar, pray for us."
Indeed, that is my patron patron saint.
And um I I hope that people did learn
that you just stay calm. And yeah, I
could have forced and been like, I want
to just talk about the case, but I like
I said, I actually know that my audience
is smarter than that. I believe in my
audience. I know people can see through
that. They saw right through him in the
same way that I saw through him live.
Maddening to hear him keep telling us
stuff happened 5 seconds ago that didn't
happen 5 seconds ago, but say it with
like smuggness and arrogance. You said
it. You said this. No, I literally
didn't say that. Like, you don't have
magical powers here, sir. Zamit writes,
"I think Andrew Wilson was hoping to
open the pickle jar with the screwdriver
that they planted on the rooftop."
Indeed. Cowins writes, "Um, thank you,
Candace. Followed you since Fox News.
You're no more on Fox. Thank God for
you." And Charlie with love. Uh, thank
you. And Jay Beam writes, "It really
freaks me out that Andrew said,"You
could just not do what you are doing,
seeking the truth and asking questions
and be okay." He he said that quote,
"You could just not do what you're doing
and be okay." It's almost as if he is
aware or realized on air that you are
close to the truth. Totally creepy for
him to say that. A bit worried. It was
strange to me that he so instantly
jumped into the Israel and France
narrative, which by the way, people
would add that to why they think Israel
is sus because why does it take and
require so many people to try to tell us
that Israel is not involved? Why is that
a priority for you at all? Your debate
claim is the evidence is overwhelming
that Tyler Robinson did it. If the
evidence is truly overwhelming that
Tyler Robinson did it, you defending and
proving your debate claim would take
care of the Israel one. But he doesn't
want to do that. He doesn't want to talk
about or defend the claim. Amy and I
want to go, why do you think Israel did
it? Where is your positive evidence? My
positive evidence is you sitting here
right now prioritizing defending Israel
rather than your claim. It's sus. People
think it's suspicious because it is. You
keep trying to force this Israel didn't
do it narrative and the more that you do
it, we go
just doesn't make sense trying to
constantly emphasize this. The best way
to prove Israel's innocence is to prove
Tyler Robinson's guilt.
And you failed to do that. People should
take be taking a look at the Israel
narrative. We have a right to ask
questions. We're going to continue to do
that. Um, true. I think I read that.
Jenna, oh, I think I did. I read that
one as well. And I think I read them
all. I think I'm good, actually. Seven
sheets was the one I was missing. Seven
Sheets wrote, "I can explain it to you,
but I can't understand it for you." Wow.
We need merch. This will go down in
debate history. Kudos to your bravery
once again, but they must realize we are
Legion right behind you. God is with
you. Um, thank you so much for you guys
being with me. I think our audience
actually grew. The platform got bigger.
Um, and it's because telling the truth.
Also, exercising humility is really
important. And if you learn anything
from this debate, like like if you don't
know something, just say you don't know
it. You're not required to be an expert
at everything. I didn't even dive into
it. sounded crazy when he said the
bullet split in air and caused air. It
It felt like another one of his
confident lies, but I wasn't going to
pretend to be a ballistics uh expert on
splitting bullets midair that create
air under your shirt and and I just
trusted the internet. They will take a
look at that. The hunters, the common
sense people, we're going to go this man
is once again lying boldly about that
claim. And sure enough, we've already
seen videos of being of people just
going, he's clinically insane. I had Air
Force veterans me messaging me being
like, I cannot believe he said this on
your platform. And that's the point.
This is how we grow. Uh this is how we
are Legion. Because people go, that is
such an absurd lie to tell that I now
need to look into what Candace has been
saying. And so many people then go back
and they watch the content and they
recognize the holes. And we are doing
this because we know there's that
everything is wrong with the Charlie
Kirk narrative. Literally everything is
wrong with this narrative. And
like I say to you guys all the time,
they're not going to get away with it.
Positive evidence or not, I sense that
we are getting closer to the truth and
they are getting panicked. But here's
what I will say.
There has to be a consequence for
Turning Point USA. There does there h
there has to. Vengeance does not belong
to me, but the truth belongs to
everybody. And you know, there's nothing
I do better than sentencing them to more
truth. So get excited because tomorrow
we will be sentencing Turning Point USA
to more truth, which is what they want,
more truth and transparency, right? You
send an absolute slob to my home to
debate me, to disrespect me by not just
being honest and forthright about who he
wanted to bring here uh to violate our
rules of no filming where my children
play.
We drop more truth. That's it.
That's all. When Erica say that that's
it. That's all. Anyway, that will be
tomorrow. I am very already late on book
club. Do we have Can we do it tomorrow,
Sky?
Can we just check the calendar? I feel
like I have When am I doing?
I think I have I'm doing um Dave Smith's
show, right?
That's at noon. Okay, hold on, guys. I'm
I I got to get you on the calendar. Just
give me a second.
Wednesday. Cannot do.
Yeah. But let's do Thursday.
Yeah. Cuz I think I want to I I I um
want to pack going away with the husband
for uh our anniversary number seven. I
just casually have a conversation like
that where I can do this. I Yeah, I
think we should do we should do
Thursday.
Okay, perfect. All right, you guys. Um,
book club people, I will see you on
Thursday. Um, get excited you guys for
tomorrow. I love when the punishment is
more truth. Your punishment is more
truth. Turning Point USA, we will see
you guys then.
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