Charlie Kirk and Tucker Carlson Warn America Against War, Foreign Entanglements, and the Coming 2024 Election Chaos

[Music] [Applause] night thank you everybody for being here I'm your host Tim P of timcast IRL thanks for coming and let's bring out our panel there we go we got Ian Crossland next up I'm talking about the suspense Sheamus coglin of Freedom Tunes love you here we go we got luuk rowski of we are [Music] [Applause] change Luke and here he is Charlie Kirk from turning point USA and honoring us here at T USA once more it is an honor and a privilege Tucker Carlson is back to join [Music] us o Charlie Kirk thanks for having us back on stage thanks man it's amazing to have you absolutely it's it's wonderful it's amazing to see so many people and uh we'll just we'll get into it with everybody here this is uh it's a big year- end show for us we've we got Donald Trump's approval rating his uh his polls against Joe Biden are are through the roof in swing states he has a tremendous Advantage with voters who did not vote in 2020 Joe Biden is in the gutter and so we are looking at political Victory right now we're looking at cultural victories with the likes of Public Square building the parallel economy with Angel Studios and their movies and of course with a massive crowd and what we're seeing here at Turning Point USA so the big question is with all of this success and all this hope right in front of us what can we expect next year and what do we do to keep the momentum up and avoid losing it I think we're going to the best thing to expect is equal response you're going to get an equal and opposite response so we've got to think clear and we've got to be have slippery minds and willing to do new things that have never been done before awesome new technologies things that people won't be expecting and Implement them fast like uber was implemented yeah I think one thing conservatives have to be very careful about here is not assuming that we're going to have a victory because everyone was talking about the Red Wave day in and day out without us actually coalescing around a central mess message and because the only thing we had to say was we're going to win rather than putting forward a strategy for doing so we ended up getting clobbered and I'm worried that we have the potential to see that happen again in 2024 I I I don't know if I would uh uh I know a lot of people felt like it was a clobbering with the midterm but I think while we do see tremendous cultural victories I'll give a shout out to uh to Benny Johnson he had that amazing clip that I saw on on X where he was shouting out this massive audience and showing the lack thereof for some other personalities while I think we certainly are doing really well culturally and winning the hearts and minds of people I think what a lot of people missed in 20120 and 22 was winning elections is not just about convincing people to vote it's who counts the votes and that's my concern now going into 2024 we can we can sit here talk about polls all day and night are we going to have the the procedure behind us to actually win that's I mean you're talking about electronic voting man you need to know what that software code is because if it's trick and behind the scene and I maybe I can say that in this audience uh you know what word I'm talking about Charlie kick them out we need to uh we need to be prepared I I think that demanding open source or free software voting like code like a gpl3 so at least we can look at the code it doesn't mean that people can't hack into it and that that might still be an issue but at least we know that the machines are doing what they're supposed to do if we're going to use those yeah I mean no serious country no country serious about democracy would ever use an electronic voting machine and many don't um because anything digital could be manipulated look at Wikipedia look at the internet we're entire por of History are now gone um so I would I mean I would just demand that we have no electronic voting machines why would you even want to worry about that but I would say um that you don't want to give the other side credit for being straightforward or honorable cuz they're not and so it's not a question of convincing anyone the argument against Trump in 2020 wasn't a wall is bad you can't make that argument the argument was you know he's a bad person and then we had covid which of course was the kind of pivotal fact of that that election so I I think you have to assume if we have another pandemic pandemic or a war particularly a war between now and election day that is either you know an intentional act to subvert our democracy or it certainly will be harnessed for that use so I just wouldn't assume that it's going to come at you straight and head on you know what I mean yeah we have to understand people don't relinquish power peacefully The Establishment has a lot of power that abusing right now we're dealing with criminals we're dealing with individuals that have committed scops that have committed horrible atrocities on the people of the world that have started Wars that have started literal gene splicing chemical biological warfare against the people so we have to understand there's going to be something that's going to be happening here that we should be absolutely paying attention to as we're dealing with u essentially a multi-trillion dollar propaganda machine but it is being wrecked by posters and memes it is being destroyed by individuals speaking truth to it it is being destroyed by individuals coming together coalescing and saying enough is enough of this bull crap I am done my life has value I am standing up for myself I am standing up for this country and that is a danger to The Establishment that they fear and in that fear we're dealing with a cornered animal that cornered animal is dangerous and they could act out in many different ways and I they're capable of anything they're capable of something that we can't even imagine Luke's just cranking it right up to 11 right get started so I can but in terms of what Tucker was just mentioning about war I'm hearing a lot of talk about a potential full scale war with Russia at something that could potentially subvert Us in 2024 well War Means War Powers for the people waging the war so these are people who think only in terms of power acquiring it preventing you from having it so they see it I mean you see war in terms of its human cost or maybe it's geopolitical effect they see war in terms of their own fortunes and their own power so the second out war and there's a long history of this in the west when war broke out in 1940 in in England the government later run by Winston Churchill our hero put the opposition party in prison with their families where they stayed without charges and that's been you know that's been epsteined it's gone uh as a fact but it's that actually happened so don't underestimate the ability of a government at War to use its new powers to crush criminally Crush its opponents there's a there's a journalist by the names of uh name of Steve Baker who is a contributor to the blaze who has tweeted that he he was in instructed to turn himself in tomorrow for charges related to January 6 this guy you see a picture of him he's wearing a suit he's got glasses he looks like your your quintessential journalist Richie mcginness who's a friend of ours and also a journalist who worked for the caller said this this guy's unambiguously a journalist and he told them only a few months ago they'll never arrest you for this but now they're doing it so how about no I mean when is the first person going to stand up and say this is fake this is political I'm not submitting I mean I don't know it's at some point they're going to force people to do that everyone in this room believes in the system grew up in the system was proud of the system for its unique fairness globally unique no system was fairer than ours and that's the main thing that we were proud of As Americans and no longer is and it's transparently political particularly January 6 stuff there's like it's been 3 years this is insane and so someone at some Point's going to be like I don't know you're going to have to Ruby Ridge me because I'm not playing along that's worrisome it is worse but I'm saying like why does everyone why does everyone pretend like this ghost system which is merely sort of a you know a a a gross grotesque imitation of its former self still is real it's not real you're speaking my language everybody knows what two words I want to say but I'll throw it to Charlie instead no I mean look the Empire is going to strike back in 24 what that looks like we don't know and in in 20 they did declare war that's what Co was Co was a domestic declaration of war that gave unelected bureaucrats unlimited power to change the voting laws and they're going to try to do it in 2024 probably a foreign war but who knows and we have to be prepared for that if we want even a chance to win and people ask all the time do you think we're going to win I I have no idea well these rules are all still in place yeah I mean mostly universal mail and voting we've we've minorly changed some things in Georgia Wisconsin some things Arizona has gotten worse actually we've gotten less secure in our elections here and also let's not kid oursel there there's probably going to be a scop there's Pro probably going to be a false flag we're living through one there's probably going to be an agitation and and our reaction to the next thing whatever that next thing is is going to be critically important and this is why I think there's such a massive effort to take down Twitter to take down Rumble to take away people's ability to call out the scops in real time which are happening right now and I think the system is kind of scrambling because I think they had a lot of things down the pipeline but they know they can't get away with it it's a very dangerous Gambit that they're playing right now and I I don't see things going well the longer this goes on and the more that we don't know what the future is going to be in in front of us with as they're desperate that's what waiting around is not the solution because if we just petition them to hey please stop electronic voting we can't see the code please give us the code it's not going to happen we need to build systems that are better or in parallel like we could vote legitimately on the the machine or wherever with paper and then on a blockchain voluntarily like volun it would just take a lot of us to do it and then we could check and see if they're accurate and that would be one way to move forward it it is tough I mean uh I I agree with what you're saying I agree with what Tucker was saying yeah let's not have electronic voting machines open source the code do whatever you got to do but there's a practical question of what can we do right now with less than a year in front of us the the best thing is use x and Twitter because it's obviously a threat to them they wouldn't want to shut it down or go after to Elon if it wasn't working the greatest hope we have in 2024 is we have a sliver of the Public Square back that we didn't have in 20 and that's why they're going to try to either indict Elon or they're just going to try to crash Twitter through a DD attack or some sort of foreign threat they're going to try to take Twitter down by the summer the EU is going after him now they just announc obviously no people are saying things on Twitter that you're not allowed to say and they're going very viral very quickly and public opinion is changing too rapidly can I can I just point out I think it was Dave Smith who pointed this out to us on the show that before Elon Musk purchased X if you said men are not women you would be banned that that actually happened I mean it is it is quite remarkable to be fair the gains we've gotten back I mean it's a tremendous loss for the fact that we could not say I'm one of the biggest social media Platforms in the world aren't women they actually banned Megan Murphy for saying that just that it's very innocuous I find Twitter is a is a vulnerability at this moment the way it's built the centralized system so if we can decentralize that thing into a protocol and still use it and it's fast enough there's still issues with like Noster where sending video is uh is slow but it doesn't mean it's always going to be slow we can use mesh networks so that if we all have Twitter on our phone and four of our phones go down the other two are going to keep the network going I I I do think that you know what Turning Point USA is doing right here is one of the most important things bringing people together people are meeting each other all throughout this building and even in the streets even at restaurants yes that culture building is the most important thing because as we all know it's been in quoted 50 billion times Andrew breart politics is Downstream from culture someone told me this is like the RNC now this is basically why not just this is the RNC de facto MH I I I I can't take that as a compliment if you might have meant it as an insult what you call it the RNC Tucker it's like NATO it sucks huge amounts of cash and demands attention and does nothing useful time to abolish it and it subverts Poland in it um no I uh yeah comparing anything to the Republican National Committee or convention is just it's an ugly slur it's an ugly SL I'll take it as what the RNC should doing exactly you know having been around this stuff my whole life and spent my whole life life in Washington the true Corruption of the Republican party I don't know it just took I was like 10 years behind on that speaking my language that but but now that I now that I see it I'm like I can't even believe this exists Because by the way in some ways it's more offensive than Democratic party because it's lying the Democratic part is just like we're here to hurt you and and belittle you of course but the Republican Party pretends to be on your side they're like quizzing but they're they're literally they the the Republican Congress just allowed the Biden Administration to spy on Republican voters so like is there a bigger sign of the fact that they hate you every bit as much as the Democrats what I love about this though is I I agree with you however if you are on the how would I describe this the lower end of the IQ bell curve you don't understand what it is Democrats are saying they're doing so for instance when they say they're going to have uh free trade it's good for everybody when they say we're going to increase environmental regulations and increase taxes to the average person they're like this is good it makes the rich pay their fair share but to anybody who knows anything they they they they're they're like hey wait a minute this is going to drive all of our manufacturing base overseas where they can ship their products back for dirt pay people and China dirt and have no environmental regulations so this is why Trump takes actions when he did in his first term that resulted in a lot of manufacturing coming back but see we can understand that and I'm not trying to be too much of a dick but there's a lot of people who don't understand the basics and I'm sorry but sometimes I do argue with them on X and they say you know I I remember this one conversation where a guy said you know food comes from the store and I said yes but where does that food come from he go what do you mean it comes from the store and I said my God help me I'll help you I was there for that convers like like what do you mean milk's coming from the store and I'm like there's a supply chain I think you got to build trust and it's challenging was someone you disagree with but if they trust you they're more willing to change their mind about the things you're saying and you mentioned Tucker about learning about the corruption of the the Republican party and I kind of watched it in real time on TV and 2006 78 uh when we were the Iraq War was kind of lit up and I remember you were into it it seemed like you were on the side of the Republican like George Bush and the movement and then what John Stewart came on one day and you guys just had it out and it was like humiliation and he's like please stop arming America but the way you were looking at him was like really listening to him was that was that a moment no I I thought and I still think that he's a mediocrity and um and I think time has proven me right on that absolutely but what's interesting is that by that point I mean this is not even interesting at all actually but my views on Iraq which I had I had a daily TV show leading up to that war and I had kind of endorsed it sort of half-heartedly against my better instincts but I did I did I did that I felt ashamed about it ever since and then I went to Iraq in December of 2003 20 years ago this month and I got through the day they captured Saddam and to greet and I watched the whole place fall apart and I won't bore you with the details but I realized that everything I'd advocated for was a complete lie that this was a disaster that could only hurt my country which is the only country I really care about and by the way it eliminated the entire Christian population of Iraq which I guess we're not allowed to say but if you're a Christian you should care what happens to Christians globally and I must say they do bear the brunt of almost all of our foreign policy and no one says that it's happening now happened in Syria and it's like shut up you're not allowed to notice that why I'm a Christian and I care about other Christians why wouldn't I and they do wind up bearing the disproportionate harm in our foreign policy adventures and you have to ask yourself why is that honestly what I don't know the answer but it's super evil well I I kind of I I feel like a large component and I think you were saying this earlier if not the component of what uh uh the culture war is is the destruction of Christianity of course well yeah it exactly it's a destruction of Christianity there's also a destruction of Innocence uh Americans unfortunately will look at our foreign policy as if it's something entirely removed from our cultural realities and attitudes but the truth is we have promoted a callous disregard for human life over the course of decades because abortion was legal Nationwide across this country prior to the overturning of row and if you think sending women the message and Men the message that they can wage war against their own unborn children does not have effects on the global stage and that a person who doesn't have to care about the life of their unborn child is supposed to care about children in Gaza or Yemen you're out of your mind but unironically a lot of these neocons um they're usually pro-life even though they want to start World War III and they want to send your kids to fight a foreign war but that's why they're pro-life they need more babies to go send a war ex well yes I I think that that's also component to but there's also a lot of hypocrisy because a lot of the chaos that was created by this foreign policy was deliberate Dick Cheney in 1991 was specifically talking about why we can't get rid of Saddam Hussein because if we do it's going to create chaos inside of the Middle East it's going to kill the Christians it's going to kill all the different SE sectarian Muslims there that are going to be fighting each other it's going to make Iran more powerful in the region it's going to create a vacuum and they did it they knowingly did it after 9911 the Republicans after 9911 were on the wrong side of history and they set up the institutions and the apparatuses that are now going after their other fellow Republicans and putting them in jail and and that's a hypocrisy that needs to be called out and those people in that party need to be purged there needs to be there need to be consequences for the actions that they've taken they have literally done everything they could have possibly done with the role that they had to destroy our country and ensure that the people do not have a prosperous future and what happens I mean we put all of the decision-making in the hands of people who pay no price when they're wrong I want to I want to throw back to what you were saying Tucker about uh you know you being on the wrong side of that and you you know regretting it all that stuff I think everybody everybody here now agrees and that's is why they tremendously respect you it's because you you say things that are true you learn things and then you correct yourself you you you evolve your opinions and here you are you know many of us we we've watched you for so long and you take a look at the other conservatives in the establishment with the rise of Donald Trump and what did they do all of a sudden now they're indistinguishable from Democrats they they're the antithesis they are the people who said I don't care what's true or correct I care about what grants me political power and now we're looking at Old neoconservatives who have effectively joined the Democratic part party or super packs that are going after Trump and and my favorite thing is when Trump in 2020 in 2020 after they announced Biden wins you have groups like The Lincoln project saying oh our fight's not over it was never about Trump well it's just a Democrat super pack with old old Republicans now saying whatever Democrats want to hear to make money yeah but I do think it yeah I agree with every word and I work for some of the people that you're referring to and it's horrifying to me to see them change but I do think a lot of it has to do with what's going on inside them and they won't admit when they're wrong and that's a tragedy for the country but it's also a tragedy for them there is nothing better for you there's nothing more liberating there's nothing more joy inspiring than being able to admit when you're wrong it frees you from the burden of the mistake that you made that's totally real you don't have to be a religious person to believe it it's the basic precept of AA it's the basic precept of all true Liberation movements begin with you admitting that you're probably not a super great person and you don't have unlimited power it starts with you being honest about yourself and if you can't do that you are in a prison and that's why they're also fearful every word is measured they're afraid of saying the wrong things why because they're afraid of being exposed if you tell the truth you have no such fear You're Not Afraid at all cuz you're out there you don't even care and if you hurt someone's feelings if you say something stupid which you will definitely do you just apologize for it and it's better it's like I don't understand it's like not a hard concept and no one in DC can do it yeah humility it's a it's a blessing to be able to be hum it's the greatest blessing I love there's also there's also a big distinction here that I think is is is very uh important to kind of call out here because when we have these two sides we have the establishment and we have the anti-establishment the bigger distinction is one side is is a bunch of bloodthirsty neoconservatives that want war and death and murder the other side want want of course none of that they want uh peace they they are anti-war principally anti-war and for for years now there has always been an attack no matter who you are if you are anti-war and I think this is a key issue that's going to be very important for this election cycle cuz I do think something in Ukraine something in Europe is going to be that galvanizing new Pearl Harbor like event and I think we need to speak up more be more anti-war more than ever uh because this is the key Crux issue and for years Bill O'Reilly uh previously called me a Jihad loving liberal when I was criticizing the war Chris Matthews when I was criticizing the war a couple years later called me a right-wing racist teab so you got a great resume I didn't change on my on my philosophy I didn't change on my point of view I have always been anti-war I have always been anti-establishment the system has always been proar and that's the big distinction here you're you're living through a realignment that's promising and Tucker you helped lead it you're sitting in a room that watch this we should not send one more dollar to Ukraine to that gogo dancer named zalinski we never should have sent him a single dollar the issue is should ask for the money back hold on you're sitting in a conservative event that is applauding for something this has all been realigned it's all changed that an event like this that would have been predominantly conservative would have 20 years ago been totally on team neoliberal and every thinker would maybe they might been a little bit contrarians here and Tucker what do you make of that that all of a sudden the home of not just America first but skepticism about these Foreign Wars and Adventures now lives in the conservative movement well I think it of course it's mostly Trump who did that and I was just the pivotal moment in the last election in the 2016 election that changed my view of everything was the night of the debate in Greenville South Carolina when Trump said you know that we didn't get anything out of the Iraq War it was a mistake and I remember all the Dumbo on television I mean covering politics is the easiest thing you could ever cover right and so these are really these are mouth Breezers these are low IQ people and they immediately like check the notes oh South Carolina is the highest military population per capita of any state and so they all look at oh he said that in South Carolina he criticized the Iraq War he's going to get creamed in the primary and I thought the people I know having been in Iraq and know lot of people who serve there the people who are madest about the Iraq War the people whose lives were disrupted or ended or severely injured by that war and of course he won and it was at that moment he won the South car Department it was at that moment that they decided Bill Crystal and and the rest of the ghouls who were s of thinking about how to subvert this campaign and like draw its energy for their own dark ends they decided oh well we have to stop him you know and that's when the realignment happened on the left where Liz Cheney and Bill Crystal and all these people whose core problem is they could never admit that the Great Adventure of their life the Iraq War was wrong they could never admit it and if they just admitted it I mean Liz Cheney has lived with this burden and she's obviously a bloodthirsty freak but one of the reasons that she is a bloodthirsty freak is that she's never been able to be honest about her own complicity in this crime and if she would she would be totally free of all that and she like a normal human being who her husband could love again and it would just be all good but she can't and and they're all like that you know what I mean she was raised by one well there's that the family the family business is invading other foreign countries and displacing millions of people lying about it and then but who would go into that business like who would want that I think only a severely damaged person like the problem is inside them that's I just think that's true they're trying they're trying to acrew resources and it's either that they're trying to get the the oil out of the Middle East or the poppies out of the Middle East they want fuel so this is why I push a lot of hydrogen in like Redevelopment of our hydrogen industry at home so that we don't need to go steal resources elsewhere the problem then is trade routes they want a trade route into the into India through the Mediterranean and they want to secure this that's a tough one to not Ian you're being too logical here yeah also but but I can I just yeah so I just want to make a point here about the conservative anti-war movement and why I'm so optimistic about it I'm a firm believer that an effective anti-war movement has to be conservative because when you look at the things people fight for the things that motivate people to enlist it's God country and family and when the left is anti-war the way they discuss it is God country and family are stupid and you were an idiot for fighting for those things and what conservatives can say is those things are valuable those things are good you are a brave and good person who was manipulated by Liars who don't care about those things and we're using you to profit well I I I do think you're half right Sheamus what I often hear from better than usual better than usual from when the left talks about anti-war there there are people I know I've had conversations with and I'll make sure I carve out respect for them but typically it's this country or this war is an affront to to family and faith and and and and stability in the economy for the other country America sucks we hate America America should be funding these yeah a lot of this is not for profit a lot of this is not for strategic American goals I don't think these people care about America these people literally go to the Bohemian Grove and do mock child sacrifices they literally do Spirit cooking where they take bodily fluids and try to summon demons they literally go to private islands where they hurt little babies and children in unspeakable ways that we can't even mention here on this particular freaking broadcast these are evil Sinister human beings that I truly do believe are are are worshiping a larger outside entity a satanic evil entity it sounds reductive to say that but if you look at everything they do it doesn't add up until you put in the kind of spiritual aspect to this they have been hijacked they are not real Souls they are individuals serving the greater evil real quick want to ask a very very quick question of everybody okay uh Sheamus have you ever been arrested oh man why you got to ask me that here yes you haven't okay uh Tucker have you ever been arrested I've been taken into custody twice Charlie no no okay uh have you ever been detained no ever stopped and questioned uh in Israel yeah okay uh that means and and we and Ian you you've only ever been detained yeah my buddy had weed in the car that means for everyone here on the stage you have served oh I we know you've been arrested seven times for journalism okay this means got to arrest it on the way here that everyone here has has has done more time in any context than anyone on the Epstein Client List for the Epstein Client List it's like the liberal economic order man it's the least worst world order shout out to Owen Shroyer for making that point but but this is the issue that brings people together and I want to kind of change this conversation a little bit because if you look at Left Right Center everyone agrees hey uh what they were doing for for decades with the FBI covering up child abuse when Witnesses and and people came to them and said hey this is happening police offic ERS judges prosecutors politicians celebrities media Moguls all played a part in it Megan McCain said that literally everyone in Washington knew what was going on everyone was afraid of Jeffrey Epstein this is this is something that will bring everyone together and make people understand hey uh the system is rotten it's corrupted and it can't be fixed until we deal with this one single issue we've we've not only have heard these stories of Epstein the Lolita Express Madison cauthorne made some uh some allegations Madison cauthorne was right was right cuz we all saw as much as you probably didn't want to that video out of the Senate was The Heart Building hearing room floor which was uh very disturbing and I do hope they decontaminate that building I mean that sincerely I mean he should be arrested what he did was worse than what 99.9% of people on January 6th did and he should be arrested and put in federal 100 well I don't not beating a police officer there's a couple people that did but yeah well it is a desecration of the space I mean most January six people I've interviewed a lot of them as you have and they're all I mean they were there because they believe in the system because they all had pocket constitutions they thought it was real and they were so shocked to see their election stolen which obviously it was and that they marched on the capital but they were there to uphold the system and some did it imperfectly and some got out of hand of course but this guy is there to degrade it to defile it on purpose like there's no reason to do that in a hearing room and to post it on the internet like let's make this distinction here as it pertains to January 6 there were people who were violent that's bad you should you should be held criminally responsible if you're attacking cops I agree with you Charlie there were people there who were let in by the cops but knew that something violent was happening but more importantly I have spoken with many people who showed up an hour after any violence to cleared cleared roads no Gates doors wide open with cops smiling welcomed them in and took selfies and those people I've met two of them they're going to prison for 18 months and they said I show up an hour later it's a clear sidewalk we walked up there are people Milling about cops open the door weird shrugging we we walk inside for a few minutes we walk out no idea anything ever happened next thing we know the feds are at our door the the these are not people who even as you described tuger these are people who are just there to see Trump speak and happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time so how about no on that I mean when is some honestly I mean I don't you know want to put anyone in Jeopardy but like until people say we're just not playing along with this anymore obviously Congress isn't going to help you know the problem we talked before about religion Christianity is like the battlefield of the culture war and you were talking about demonism and Satanism creeping into the culture in a lot of ways I think one of the problems with Christianity is that it encourages people to be subservient to a church and then therefore subconsciously they become subservient to a government like why aren't they saying no well a man has as many Masters as he does vices and the reality is you're a slave to something and if you choose to be a slave to God as opposed to the government you will be the most difficult possible man to conquer but it's the way they Define God you got to be aware that they're not define God he told us who he was I think and I think Ian uh age I but but but I I don't disagree with Ian's point but I think it would have to be refined in that there are people who masquerade pretend or don't truly understand and would use Faith to manipulate others I mean we see this in government especially when Democrats claim to be the real Christians but then say the church is in favor of say abortion or something like that yeah and I'm obviously I'm speaking from a a thoroughly Protestant perspective but I don't see my reading of Christianity just like the text does not at all indicate loyalty to a church it indicates fty to God yes and so I first of all it's not incompatible with being a citizen at all um I think Christians make the best citizens actually and you can absolutely support your government and support your God but if it comes down to it if your government is actively opposing God you really do have to make a choice between those two masters and and I'll make a quick point Sorry Charlie I'll make a quick point and Shout out our good friend Bill Maher because it's a point I've made frequently that whether bill acknowledges or not as an atheist his moral framework is built on judeo-christian values this country was found he say that now he doesn't but it but it's a fact Tom Holland wrote the book called Dominion where he's an atheist secularist who said that we all have a Christian inheritance whether you like it or not that's absolutely right absolutely Bill Maher believes in free speech he believes an innocent till proven guilty all Christian values Christian values and you know I uh uh wanted to explore years ago why the founding fathers decided upon these amendments to the to the Constitution and the framework as it was and you learn a lot about how the Bible influenced their views of what is just and moral and so so just to it at the surface reading you might say oh you know Christians aren't supposed to fight back against tyranny Exodus one The Midwives to the Hebrews they disobeyed the order of pharaoh where they said throw all the babies in the river they said no we're not going to do that and God said dealt well with them it says in Exodus 1 Daniel 6 Daniel disobeyed the order says you can't pray anymore he says nope I'm going to keep praying and he opened up the window and prayed proudly and it ended up in the lines then in Acts it says you obey God not man so look throughout Christianity we have seen on hon ly one of the most successful the most successful movements against tyranny are when Christians are brought to a Breaking Point Christians can be very agreeable and then as soon as that snaps Disobedience to tyrants is obedience to God I want to shout out Sheamus real quick when he said you would be the most difficult man to conquer and this is exactly why I think there is such a a a tremendous push against anything that is related to Christianity because these are people who follow God who obey God and you need someone to be hold to a man because a man can change the rules at any moment that's right yeah well and and so you guys I know you mentioned you're coming at it from a Protestant perspective I'm the resident Catholic here so I have a different perspective uh on the church but I I will say part of the reason I appreciate you so much and the things that you've said on air is because even though you're an Episcopalian you're somehow like the most Catholic commentator on air I find the things that you say about like economic Justice and also social conservatism tend to line up very closely with the the political values that I have uh as a Catholic uh but I would say that of course as Christians we should be good citizens and Obey Civil Authorities when they are not asking us to do something evil but as soon as you're commanded to do something evil you have to resist that yeah the scriptures are very clear about that you obey God not and the church tradition is is very clear about that Tucker you made some very interesting comments recently that has been uh going viral all over social media when you were specifically talking about um UFOs and you you were specifically talking about something that is hard to kind of really understand here I was wondering what's your kind of take on all of this cuz I I see this as a spiritual war do you see this as a spiritual war what what are your kind of core belief systems when it comes to addressing the larger evils of the system well I you know as I so often do I spoke incompletely I didn't fully explain myself um in the clip that you're referring to which like eight people have sent me uh in Outrage that I basically said there are things that I know that I won't say which of course is not exactly right I don't know I mean I can't prove it and I really do try like say things that I really believe are true and are provably so um and so that's kind of my hesitance if I had facts I would I would say them it's my personal belief based on a fair amount of evidence that they're not aliens they've always been here um and I and I do think it's spiritual that's that's my view and and again it's not provable but based on on the evidence I think I'm abely well the military has been working in this realm for a very long time they have been also trying to to weaponize it there's also a lot of crazy experiments that they did with DMT hooking people up essentially to DMT IVs having people go off into the spiritual realm so there there there if if you're not paying attention you don't understand that there's a larger kind of energetic uh frequency in battle happening but can I say one thing if the US government has in fact had contact Direct contact with these beings whatever they are I've already told you what I think they are and has entered into some sort of agreement with them which is which is the claim of of for people um I would say whether they're right or wrong I can't say conclusively but if that is true I mean it's a very very very heavy thing a lot of people say interdimensional beings right I want to ask are are angels and demons or how would you describe these these beings you know I these are again I'm getting into the realm of conjecture so I just want to say that flat out entity but one thing I know for a dead certain fact having seen it is that um there is good and evil that we are being acted upon at all times and I think every person can feel that in himself I mean there are moments when you are moved to do things that are much better than you actually are and that are also more evil and destructive than you actually are you are subject to forces from outside yourself that is absolutely true now we can argue about what they are but every person in the room if he's reflective will tell you yes I know what you're talking about and so there are forces that are not human that do exist in a spiritual realm of some kind that we cannot see and that when you think about it sort of make you think live in an an Farm being right and that's just that is real okay and there's many artists also talking about how essentially what they do and their greatest works of art is usually done through channeling of course and and there is an aspect not by the way not that good yet um every by the way every artist will tell you that every artist that's something happened that they're they're they're not themselves that they just were were doing their art and then something just no but and it's not just Visual Arts it's it's every creative act brings you closer to something outside the human real and you can feel it whether it's woodworking or writing or painting a painting or writing an opera or writing a rap song or whatever anything that is true and beautiful or anything that is dark and destructive is almost certainly a product of forces acting upon you and you can feel it you created us to participate in Creation with him to participate in his creativity and make things that's right and since everyone here is cool I'll say this um with respect to demons and spiritual forces there's a a priest who is lzed towards the end of his career he's relatively controversial but he was an exorcist by the name of Malachi Martin and one thing he said about exorcism cases is that in films you see all of these over-the-top portrayals of head spinning and and vomiting and he said when it comes to things like vomiting and all of these these uh Supernatural visual indicators of possession that those are the cases that are the most mild because the Soul's trying to fight back and with for of perfect possession the most dangerous forms of possession you can't tell when you look at the person because they're perfectly content with the evil thing they're doing and then you look at the way people in DC act you look at the way our political leaders act and you go is it that much of a stretch to say some of people and this is not some crazy Outsider belief Jesus performs exorcisms in the Bible like this is not something that and does it make you wonder that no doctor has ever been able to explain where exactly schizophrenia comes from and that we cannot treat it we can suppress it but we cannot treat it and there's no kind of Baseline for it at all there science that has not penetrated schizophrenia so like what is that the other thing one of because and that's because in my view is a you know 28y year old cartoonist who knows basically nothing about the world but if I would be so bold as to speculate on this I think part of that is the problem with psychology is it doesn't take into account that the human person is a body Soul composite and that you are not just chemical reactions happening at the level of the brain in a series of tangled up pathologies that produce certain behaviors in States Of Consciousness you have a soul there is a spiritual component to you that can be acted on by outside spiritual forces when I was younger I I you know 18 192 I very much fell into this there is no good and evil it's competing interests some people think the other person's evil because their interests don't align and they different worldviews and uh as I got older especially with the past eight years I I've my my worldview fundamentally changed and there's one man I owe a great deal to for ex for revealing to me the evils of the world that's Adam Schiff he is a liar a cheater a deceiver a manipulator I mean I I I was I was so shocked to see this guy on TV lie in the way he does to destroy for and and I call him out because it's an easy it's an easy name to throw throw mud at but there are so many people that I'm shocked to see particularly on the left with liberals and now the neocons who've joined them who I am I'm I'm shocked when I'm like these people know they're lying they know what they're doing will drive us to a path of Destruction for what logical purpose none and let let me give you a quick story when I was at Occupy Wall Street this was a this was one of my um formative moments here I am 25 years old really still kind of believing a lot of there you know good and evil is subjective and I met someone who worked for a major media corporate press publication who explained to me as they write and support the movement they were nihilists and so their intention was to watch the world burn down and I'm not exaggerating they said nothing matters you can prove nothing so wouldn't it just be fun to watch it all burn and I said no that's horrifying if nothing matters make your purpose and make things better and make things beneficial and make it flourish and that's when I started to think to myself this person's writing for a major corporate press outlet and it starts to come into into clearer picture for me as I'm seeing this throughout my career there actually are people who are legitimate malicious evil whose intention is to cause suffering to others and I think Fair Point you look at serial killers and other crazy people there's there's real evil in this world there's more sociopaths per capita in Washington DC than anywhere else in the world that's not an accident okay these are the people that you put in charge of your life and this is where I I I come as as an anarchist and and once again try to remind all you amazing people the solutions are usually within you taking personal responsibility for yourself if you give the government even a niche you give them anything they will absolutely take it and abuse it for their own personal benefit I want to get to Sheamus's Point here really quickly because what you talked about uh some people talk about frequency some people talk about energies some people describe it as Souls I I I do agree you do have an a free quency but you decide where that frequency goes how it's affected what its impact on the world it will have and uh that choic is everyone's and I think the more we start looking at ourselves and how we could be better and less government intervening in our lives then the true change will happen in in our society when we no longer will need government let's let's talk about 2024 we've got polls claiming Nikki Haley is is doing very well and gaining ground not that I think she will defeat Donald Trump you guys like Nikki that's right there you go fan favorite no F you guys AR fans and it's and it's unsurprising I mean this somebody who goes on stage and advocates for war and lies about the intentions of of Russia as a pertains to Ukraine she's an accomplished woman and you should stop insulting her and V ramaswami has a problem with women for calling out facts that was a Chris Christie quote by the way I don't I'm kidding I'm kidding he said that at the debate all right I'm however I I was asked a difficult question last night because I think I think it was Steve Bannon who said Trump's going to choose a woman and with the the polls that are coming out there someone asked me would you vote for Trump if he chose Nikki as VP and would you guys vote for Trump well that's the question that I asked you specifically I I would not only not vote for that ticket I would I would Advocate against it as strongly as I could wow wow yeah that's just that's just poison I mean here's someone who's actively opposed to the interest of the country I grew up in who endorsed the BLM riots and who is not is is not left but is neoliberal in the darkest most speaking of nihilist nihilistic way and has no real popular support is like is a creature of the oligarchs so yeah that would be that would be reason to oppose the ticket even Trump Haley is a nogo Nikki Haley he would get assassinated immediately if that were the case yeah and by the way I just can't imagine a world where that could happen that would be so crazy I mean anything could happen of course but picking Nikki Haley um who's utterly treacherous and utterly dismissive of like the interest of Americans yeah it's a no-o for me uh but it's a for Black Rock and State Street I really do love her but but but but I want to turn the question to to everyone here and just really quickly who would you guys like to see as Trump's VP as of course he knows what he's doing probably vice president I have I know what I have the straw pole results but before the straw pole results let's just go let's go around who who do you want to see as VP I'm a big fan of a ram Swami Charlie I um I'm sitting next who I think should be vice president me I mean I agree with you I'd vote for that I I I think Tucker makes a lot of sense for vice president I've said it publicly I'll say it privately I mean I mean I but the case I I kind of like vake I think he's one of those people who everyone beats up on VI for being he's a phony and all this stuff I don't know I I've covered a lot of campaigns going back to 1992 and I've noticed this thing in many candidates and I noticed it in him the process the process of running for president and speaking three times a day and having people throw hostile questions in your face causes you to change they all change during these campaigns like for real inside and I feel like V's positions have gotten much more sincere since the beginning of this like he I watch him with Nikki haly and I'm like this is a guy who's very offended by her views like for real he's not attacking her CU she's a woman he's attacking her because he actually thinks her views are terrible for the country he lives in and I love that mhm so is that is that a no you're not going to Tim no I mean it's like the weather I can't control that I don't think I'd be that great at it well who do you want to see as VP so I I I think you know we we we we talked a bit about this for a long time and often have entertained VI ramaswami but then when Trump Carlson popped up we all kind of lit up like that would be amazing but I think it's I think it's because when we were talking about DeSantis so long ago it was because we were looking for someone who was less the Wild Card Trump is a very strong personality and we were looking for something that was someone that would be a stabilizing Force the is is very much like that uh Ron I think his campaign has kind of uh been very poorly run I'm trying to be nice here and uh then we look to Tucker Carlson Tucker you've got your finger on the poll probably better than anybody else in in the country well that's I don't know about that but I I do care about the country I know the country pretty well very well very well actually it's like the one thing I know a lot about and I I think that kind of disqualifies me right there but can I just ask a question since you all are so on the internet and like I'm not that much um you really get the sense that Ronda Santos who I liked as Governor uh the people who represent him online are the nastiest the stupidest and the most zero some people I've ever seen in my life and I don't think that reflects him but it's like this is kind of small ball and by the way these purported conservatives Ron DeSantis changed his View and I like him okay I think he's been a good Governor I just want to be clear about that I know him personally I like him but his donor Ken Griffin told him to change his view on Ukraine from it's a regional conflict shouldn't get involved into it's a super important thing we should send more money one donor got him to change his View and all these so-called conservatives are supporting that like it's the most important thing ever like who are these people and what is their problem like what is going on with them it it does reflect on Ron because Ron should have fired the people running his campaign a long time ago uh look I I respect that he wanted to launch his campaign on X on Twitter space time and it and it failed miserably this is a mistake and now you've got uh look I know a lot of people groan but a lot of people laugh the high heel s you know boot Scandal I mean who's giving this guy advice and why does he keep taking it cuz I will say it I will say it politically and and policy wise we love Ronda Sanz he's done an amazing job but his campaign is a train wreck yeah well and and so I I can speak to this just having experienced some of the um you know uh so you're suppor online that's literally what I'm saying of course thank you um no so with the the danta situation again like I know people who work for his campaign who are are good people who really like but that said I have not gotten more um like Angry Petty push back from anons online ever for pushing back against any politician than I have when I've made comments about Dan santis that were really pretty benign I remember when he was uh announcing his campaign one thing I said is look you know when I see Trump tear Dan santis apart or make fun of him it doesn't Thrill Me The Way him destroying Jeb Bush thrilled me because I think if both Trump and DeSantis are successful that's good for the Republican Party they' and said that and then I said here the reality about I should have been agreeing with everything he was saying in his his campaign speech when he first announced and I was bored to tears and they need to get somebody to help him with his delivery so he can be more charismatic because that matters to people I think that's a pretty benign piece of constructive criticism and I was just flooded with angry replies from his followers and it was so strange to me because I've said far harsher things about other Republican candidates and I have not experienced even a small fraction of the push they're matter at you than Joe Biden don't get what is that like and I by the way as someone who who is uh generally liked Trump I've made fun of and pushed back against Trump too and my fans who really like Trump enjoyed it they thought it was funnier they agreed I made fun of trump all the time that's okay he's a person no one is God okay lighten up a little bit yeah my my my conspiracy theory is that the people online are actually Trump supporters masquerading as disant supporters to just make everybody hate him I'm like it's the only explanation I come on at a certain point you have to realize you to like we're talking about his campaign staff and and his and his high level staff at a certain point you have to realize what you're doing is failing I mean polls are going down he's being beaten by Nikki Haley in the polls if you want to trust the polls I'm like at a certain point do a 180 stop you're it's not working but they keep doing the exact same thing but but I'll tell I had a realization the other day because I saw this tweet from Laura lumer uh which purportedly came from Christina Pasha but it appeared to be fake and I tweeted no there's no way this can be real Christina Pasha then retweeted a fake version supposedly coming from Laura lummer now this at this point it's clearly fake because it was a manipulation on what Laura had posted so I call that out saying these people are the scumbags they camea they claim the Trump people are and I get this push back where they say you seem to have ignored the fact the Trump campaign did this first whoa whoa whoa I figured it out Laura lomer is not the Trump campaign she's Trump's biggest fan she does a lot of work in support of trump but she is outside of the campaign and she is not on the same level as Trump's campaign staff and press secretary Christina Pasha foronda santz is his second in command who is acting on the internet as though she is on the same level as Laura lummer is despite Laura not being part of Trump's campaign so and I'm saying this not to be disrespectful to anybody what I'm saying is if you are running a presidential campaign but you think your path to Victory is to argue with fans of your opponent online you have put yourself way below the standards of of that Governor you're representing yeah one thing I want to point out that might be a possible uh explanatory Factor here the the great and insightful Orin McIntyre said this so I'll give him credit but the disantis campaign has effectively become a shelling point for all of the elements within the Republican party that just hated Trump so even though disantis has great policies because they see it as a very us verse him type of thing a lot of people in the Republican Party who we would agree shouldn't have a place in it have migrated to his campaign and I don't think they've advised them well I think that it is very clear that there's some ineptitude going around in in the s a campaign but that you brought up Tim that there's some sort of malfeasance that people are in there manipulating the scenes like we have ai that could just be twisting people's thoughts about danas constantly with comments with retweets AI could be retweeting other AIS that are or even machine learning algorithms that are like making him look really bad on purpose or vice versa I mean it's let's or he has autism but no no but let's get into this let's get into this um one of the scariest things I think we're seeing now is the potential for what uh I mean Steve Ben talks about this quite quite a bit The Singularity we are getting uh well let me start from the beginning there's something called Dead internet Theory Tu you have you ever heard of this no I'd be the last know this is this it's an idea that he's flexing that he goes outside by the way he's like you guys look pal enough can you internet questions for me so dead inet Theory uh believes that around 2016 is when we saw a shift from real people on the internet into AI Bots and suck puppets sock puppets are you know one person will run 50 accounts to try and manipulate public opinion and uh maybe maybe Elon Musk is working very hard to get bots off of X to try and create a genuine conversation but as we're now to the point where we have these large language models and a lot of them especially grock now grock is new the potential that you are not even talking to a person when you're debating online is is nearing 100% I'm curious what your thoughts are on this on this AI future and with these fears in mind well I mean it's hard to sort of ignore the Instinct that like we're approaching something horrible and final I mean I don't understand how you and could in good conscious build something like AI it's so Tower of Babel it's so transparently Genesis 11 it it's so transparently insane and of course we now reports that the people building it or worshiping it like a god which obviously it is and um it that feels to me like the craziest most Reckless thing people have ever done and I think the chance that that ends in tears is 100% V little and so but also it's like technological progress I don't know we've had quite a bit of it and this country is become much worse in every measurable way since I was a child with much less technological progress so and I'm sorry I know there we have tech people I have friends who are professional technologists and they're very excited about technology but where's the evidence that it's a good thing go I I mean where's the evidence even the public health has declined they used to say well at least we'll cure cancer okay but that's not happening people are getting we have more cancer actually more obesity more suici exactly so where just just show me the place where technology in the last 20 years has made people happier and I don't think there is such a place so maybe we should rethink our core assumptions about technology I agree but I do think we have serious cultural problems and I wonder if perhaps the argument is a culture will be destroyed through uh technology in this way particularly Communications technology it starts with the printing press which we say was great then the radio it was fantastic then television oh how awesome and now the Internet it's changed everything but it does seem like it's becoming noise and static and pure chaos from it I'm wondering if it is an impossible solution or or if we've just not found the solution it's a neutral Force it's just like the atom bomb is neutral if it's in the hands of evil it will be used for evil do you really think that because here solve this mystery for me um creativity pretty much died in the West in August of 1945 when we bombed hoshima and then Nagasaki so I don't know I maybe I'm the only person who's interested in this but the the death of creativity in the United States is very jarring to me that's true in literature name three great novels written since 1945 in English oh you can't name 10 great Public Works projects since 1945 oh not possible something changed fundamentally since we dropped that bomb and I don't think I'm imagining it and by the way if you have counter evidence to wreck my theories please give it to me but I do think something about the Godlike powers of nuclear weapons convince people they are God I think there may be some spiritual force in effect there but whatever it is that moment changed this country in the entire West forever and diminished it forever and I grew up defending the bombing of Japan with the atomic weapons because oh you know we couldn't deal with an invasion or whatever now I'm thinking in what way how insane was I to defend dropping a nuclear bomb on people if you find yourself defending that you're a freak but I but I but I'm wondering if it's it's not the nuclear bombs but television the expansion of Television uh I've I've often half joked that the 9s was the last decade and I think it's probably due to the internet the decentralization of of communications through the internet results in no cohesive visible culture in this country you look at the 40s 50s 607s you see a unique culture that exists in America of course after the '90s with the explosion of the internet now it's I I got to tell you we went to the mall a couple days ago and this it really does blow my mind that I see a Hot Topic and I guarantee you Jack Skellington is in is in the window that's a 30-year-old movie still being sold to kids who have no idea what it is I there's a viral Tik Tok where a young woman's wearing a Nirvana shirt and just I don't even know what this is I just buy it anyway it is it's almost like television around that era does something to creativity by homogenizing everything but we don't understand this I mean look the creative force is the life force and by the way it's closely related to the the sex impulse which ultimately is a creative Force to create new people that's exactly right so if you see a decline in or a death of the creative Force what you're looking at is death of the culture Andor society and there is no question movies are just one manifestation of it we have seen the death of the creative impulse in the west and that is like an emergency a tragedy a history changing event and it's never acknowledged as you were saying that it clicked for me it's contraceptives it is it is the the it is the development of reliable and effective methods of artificial contraceptives and their legalization across the country I I head no it's true no it's a reality because the most well and this is something all Christians believed a hundred years ago in in Prior the one of the most intimate and productive literally productive things human beings do together you are collaborating with God in the creation of new human persons whose Souls will last longer than all of the stars in the universe and we took that and we turned it into playtime we said this is for fun this is for feeling good this is not about making things and we thought that wouldn't affect our psychology we thought that wouldn't stri of our creative impulse when we spit in the face of our creator in one of the most fundamental ways he asks us to collaborate with him in the creation of new things beauty let me make it a little bit more secular though without people having children they detach themselves from responsibility from purpose and from work a