Megyn Kelly and Charlie Kirk Confront Backlash From Pro-Israel Allies Over Nuanced Criticisms

[00:00] You and I are both supporters of Israel

[00:02] and have defended Israel since the

[00:05] beginning of this conflict and and

[00:07] spoken out about the anti-semitism that

[00:08] has erupted on these college campuses

[00:10] many many many many times and

[00:13] something's happening though with this

[00:15] whole debate that is really bothering me

[00:17] and I wonder if you're feeling it too.

[00:19] So I I mean I genuinely believe you'd be

[00:22] hardressed to find somebody in the

[00:24] public eye who's been as outspoken a

[00:27] defender of not every move Israel's

[00:30] taken in the war, but of Israel's right

[00:32] to defend itself and of the the just

[00:36] backward awfulness that we've been

[00:37] seeing on college campuses and the

[00:39] backlash against American Jews, then

[00:40] yours truly. I mean, I have been at the

[00:43] pointy end of this spear on this and I

[00:44] >> I completely agree with that

[00:46] >> and I it was all heartfelt and it

[00:48] remains heartfelt.

[00:49] >> Yes. However,

[00:51] however,

[00:53] I my contention here is that some in the

[00:56] pro-Israel camp are so kneejerk about

[01:01] calling you anti-semitic or getting

[01:05] deeply offended if you say anything that

[01:08] doesn't align with their narrative that

[01:10] it undermines their own cause. And I

[01:12] have to tell you, I find it very

[01:14] irritating. Um because I do feel like

[01:16] some of us have earned the right to have

[01:18] some credibility on the subject of

[01:21] Israel and don't want to be called those

[01:24] names when we have some mild push back

[01:27] on some of the overreaches whether it's

[01:30] you know whether they're winning or

[01:32] losing the propaganda war right now and

[01:34] my contention is they've begun to lose

[01:36] it and I realize it's propaganda coming

[01:38] at us from Hamas but they their their

[01:40] numbers have turned here in America

[01:42] they've turned not so much with

[01:44] Republican ans a little bit with

[01:45] Republicans but but completely with the

[01:47] Democrat party and with independents

[01:49] they they have shifted mightily from at

[01:52] least double digits highs to

[01:54] single-digit lows now with it with when

[01:56] it comes to approval and also with

[01:59] respect to you and I speculated about

[02:01] this at the turning point event whether

[02:03] the possibility of Jeffrey Epstein

[02:06] possibly being a MSAD agent or asset or

[02:09] affiliated with that's been turned

[02:11] around on me too to you must be

[02:13] anti-semitic

[02:14] What the hell? That's such The

[02:17] same people who say you can criticize

[02:19] Israel, that's fine. We won't call you

[02:22] anti-Semitic if you criticize Israel now

[02:24] turn around immediately and say you're

[02:26] anti-Semitic for even raising that. I

[02:29] completely reject that and I raised this

[02:31] to as a push back against my friends on

[02:35] that particular strain of the aisle to

[02:38] watch it because you don't want to

[02:40] alienate people who are openly your

[02:42] friends by going nuts in your crackdowns

[02:46] on mild push back on anything related to

[02:48] Israel. Now you take it.

[02:50] >> I'm so I'm I'm so glad you brought this

[02:52] up and I would second that, Megan. I

[02:54] think I have a bulletproof resume

[02:57] showing my defense of Israel both on

[02:59] campus, on social media to to great, you

[03:03] know, let's just say mockery and scorn

[03:05] at times where I because I believe it,

[03:07] right? I I believe in the scriptural

[03:11] land rights given to Israel. I believe

[03:13] in fulfillment of prophecy. And again,

[03:16] I'm not a theologian, but I'm a

[03:17] Christian. My life was changed in

[03:19] Israel. The spiritual energy is so

[03:22] amazing there. I I want them to win.

[03:24] I've said that repeatedly.

[03:27] >> And however, Megan, you're hitting on

[03:28] something very potent and important.

[03:30] Now, let me first say I don't want to

[03:32] judge an entire group because there's

[03:33] been many people in the Perisra world

[03:35] that have been very sweet, very kind,

[03:37] very nuanced, very Charlie, you know,

[03:39] you're with us. You don't have to agree

[03:40] all the time. However, and I and I will

[03:44] say this, the behavior by a lot, both

[03:47] privately and publicly are pushing

[03:49] people like you and me away. Not like

[03:51] we're gonna be pro- Hamas. Not like

[03:53] we're gonna But we're like, honestly,

[03:56] the way you are treating me is so

[03:58] repulsive. I have text messages, Megan,

[04:00] calling me an anti-semite. I am learning

[04:03] biblical Hebrew and writing a book on

[04:05] the Shabbat. I honor the Shabbat,

[04:07] literally the Jewish Sabbath. I visit

[04:10] Israel and fight for it. And there's

[04:11] another article out in the Times of

[04:12] Israel today. I could read it on air. I

[04:14] was just reading before I got on.

[04:15] Charlie, what are you doing? Like, why

[04:18] are you what am I doing? I'm sorry.

[04:20] Like, let's just take a step back here.

[04:22] Like, I'm an American citizen. Yes, I

[04:26] want Israel to win. Yes, I'm a

[04:29] Christian. But like the some of the me

[04:31] and you saw you've seen how I've been

[04:33] treated, Megan, by some, not all, by

[04:34] some.

[04:35] >> No, it's very irritating.

[04:36] >> It's been so unfair. They were coming

[04:39] after you after a turning point for

[04:40] among other things that you had Dave

[04:42] Smith there. Dave Smith is allowed to

[04:44] criticize Israel.

[04:46] >> You had both sides. The Israeli side was

[04:48] only though. No, you're not allowed to.

[04:50] It's even worse than that. Again, I just

[04:52] want to repeat for the fifth time. I

[04:54] love Israel. I want Israel to win. But

[04:56] my moral character is now being put into

[04:59] question, Megan. Not my decisions, not

[05:02] like, hey, are you doing this? Is it

[05:04] smart or is it dumb? But no, I am a bad

[05:07] person if I do this.

[05:09] >> And it's I I could go I mean, you saw

[05:11] it, Megan. It was trending on Twitter,

[05:12] thousands of tweets and text messages.

[05:15] And if I were to be charitable and

[05:17] generous, I will say the people that are

[05:19] attacking me are in a hyper paranoid

[05:21] state because they're at war and war

[05:24] tends to make things black and white and

[05:26] you're a hammer looking for a nail. So

[05:29] I'm trying to be charitable, Megan.

[05:30] Literally, I'm trying to cut as much

[05:32] slack as I can, right? Like, okay, what

[05:34] would it be like if all of a sudden I'm

[05:36] starting to see a pattern of behavior

[05:38] similar to what my grandparents saw in

[05:40] 1930s Germany online? How would I

[05:42] behave? So that's like my charitable

[05:44] kind of over compensation spirit. At the

[05:47] same time, I'm like, but you're it's

[05:50] it's not defensible to be dumb, right?

[05:53] So,

[05:54] >> and it's offensive. It's offensive to

[05:56] those of us who have been out there

[05:58] defending them in in many instances

[06:00] against critics on our own side. And now

[06:03] you have a couple of comments like,

[06:04] well, what about this? Well, has it gone

[06:06] on too long? Like, is it time to wrap it

[06:08] up? And the thing about Epstein is just

[06:10] so bizarre. I don't know who he was an

[06:11] agent for. It might have been Israel or

[06:13] an asset or it might have been nobody.

[06:15] But we're allowed to speculate about

[06:16] that. It's like there's some you can't

[06:18] go there when it comes to Israel.

[06:21] >> Well, you and I believe that we're

[06:23] Americans and Americans first. Period.

[06:25] End of story. We are citizens of this

[06:27] nation. Okay.

[06:28] >> And Israel, we have funded, we have

[06:31] supported, and they're up against a sea

[06:34] of Islamic totalitarianism. And we

[06:37] should be cheering for them, right?

[06:38] because they're up against barbarians

[06:40] and and monsters and we want them to

[06:43] win. However, here is Megan Kelly and

[06:46] Charlie Kirk combined

[06:47] >> probably 30 million social media

[06:49] followers like pretty right and you and

[06:52] I have been holding this down and you

[06:53] you probably get the negative, oh,

[06:55] you're just shilling for Israel,

[06:56] whatever. I'm like, okay, I'm going to

[06:57] do what's right regardless of the

[06:58] feedback, right? But then all of a

[07:00] sudden like I host a person that I de I

[07:05] moderate the debate of mind you right

[07:08] and I give equal time to Josh Hammer

[07:11] equal time to a pro-Israel advocate and

[07:15] my moral character is being put into

[07:17] question. And so I I just I think it's a

[07:20] hyper paranoid like we're just going to

[07:22] try to we're going to just stamp out

[07:25] everything type type of practice. But it

[07:29] goes to the point where if for example

[07:31] if I I have less ability sometimes

[07:35] online to criticize the Israeli

[07:37] government without backlash than actual

[07:39] Israelis do

[07:40] >> and that's really really weird isn't it

[07:43] Megan

[07:45] >> wrongheaded I I'll tell you this for me

[07:47] so I got some blowback after saying Msad

[07:50] possibilities with Ebstein a comment

[07:52] behind which I stand. I mean I really

[07:55] and I have of course reported what Alan

[07:56] Dersuitz has said as his lawyer. He

[07:58] says, "I think he would have told me."

[07:59] He didn't say he had any of those

[08:00] connections. I hear all that. That

[08:02] doesn't mean it's not true. I think all

[08:03] these things should be explored. It's

[08:05] one of the many things that should be

[08:06] explored around Epstein. But saying that

[08:09] and also saying he might be a US asset,

[08:12] etc., doesn't make you anti-Semitic.

[08:14] That's crazy. And then we get to

[08:18] last week I go on Piers Piers Morgan,

[08:20] >> right? So I go on Piers Morgan last week

[08:23] and I don't talk about Israel a lot on

[08:25] this show. I just like covering the

[08:26] day-to-day of a conflict like this is

[08:28] not my thing. It's not what we do here

[08:30] at the Megan Kelly show.

[08:31] >> Um we haven't done it for Ukraine. We

[08:33] haven't done it for Israel. We haven't

[08:34] done it for a lot of conflicts, but

[08:35] we'll talk about it when big things

[08:36] happen.

[08:37] >> So Piers talks about it a lot. Piers

[08:40] asked me, it was a very interesting kind

[08:41] of culture study. So he asked me about

[08:44] the the photos of the starving children

[08:46] out of Gaza and I said a couple of

[08:50] things, both of which got a fair amount

[08:52] of pickup. All right. So, first, this is

[08:54] what I said about the photos. Listen to

[08:56] ST 10. Well, I'm always reluctant to put

[08:59] too much stock in the images coming out

[09:00] of Gaza, that that phrase, because

[09:02] they're manipulated and they're masters

[09:03] of propaganda and they're fine having

[09:05] their own children starve just as long

[09:06] as they can put them on camera and show

[09:07] them off to the world. That that's

[09:08] Hamas. And frankly, it's a lot of

[09:10] Palestinians. So, I'm very skeptical of

[09:12] taking those images at face value and

[09:14] saying it's Israel's fault.

[09:16] >> Okay. So that clip gets circulated on

[09:18] that a million times by my Israeli

[09:21] friends and my Jewish friends online

[09:23] like go Megan. Yeah. Okay. Great. Cool.

[09:25] Cool. Cool. Yeah. She's right on. Look

[09:26] at her. You know, speak truth to Piers.

[09:28] And then Piers released at a as a

[09:30] separate clip my followup to that

[09:33] comment. Okay. And and here's that

[09:36] >> not a lot of nuance, Megan. It's only

[09:38] tribalism.

[09:39] >> That's right. So here's S 11. Israel,

[09:42] whether it realizes it or not, has made

[09:45] itself the villain of the world in in

[09:49] letting this thing go go on so long.

[09:51] They have lost support amongst their

[09:53] dearest friends. And even the entire

[09:56] Democrat party here in the United States

[09:57] has turned against them and they're

[09:59] losing Republicans by the day here in

[10:01] America, which is their most important

[10:03] ally. So whether the fight continues to

[10:05] be just or not is almost irrelevant. As

[10:08] Trump said when he was running this time

[10:09] last year, not yet elected, time to wrap

[10:12] it up. And that's how I feel, too. And

[10:14] I've given Israel a long birth. I fully

[10:16] understand as an American who was

[10:18] attacked on 9/11, my country was that,

[10:21] you know, when you attack the United

[10:23] States and you kill thousands of our

[10:24] citizens, and Israel was in this

[10:26] position on 107, it's fine to respond.

[10:28] And it doesn't have to be proportionate.

[10:30] Whoever said it has to be proportionate.

[10:31] But what Israel is doing now is losing

[10:34] its standing with the rest of the world.

[10:36] It's starting to lose, too. Even with

[10:38] its closest friends, its moral

[10:40] reputation, its moral um high ground,

[10:43] and as Trump said a year ago, time to

[10:45] wrap it up.

[10:48] >> Q.

[10:49] >> Well said.

[10:50] >> The 25 text messages from people I know,

[10:54] like friends who are pro- Israel, like,

[10:56] I'm so sad that you've left us. I'm so

[10:59] sad you let's debate it. You know, many

[11:01] Jewish uh advocates saying, "Let me come

[11:03] on your show and we'll debate." There's

[11:04] nothing to debate. I'm on Israel's side.

[11:07] Just stop me observing totally agree

[11:10] >> that you're losing the propaganda war

[11:11] and that this has gone on for about two

[11:13] years now. And look, I mean, I pulled

[11:15] the stats. Support for Israel's military

[11:17] action in Gaza by party ID. Uh GOP in

[11:20] June of 2024, 76%, now 71, so they lost

[11:23] 5%. Dems in October of 2023, 36%, now

[11:27] it's at 8. Independence, October of

[11:30] 2023, it was 47%. Now it's 25%. you go

[11:34] under 35, you have almost zero support

[11:37] across the United States, your closest

[11:39] ally. I I see what's happening and it's

[11:42] my job to comment honestly on it. But I

[11:44] am sick of being lectured on like you

[11:47] you have to see it exactly as we see it

[11:49] and support everything or you're you're

[11:51] against us.

[11:53] >> So So this is so important, Megan. And

[11:55] again, I don't want not every you cannot

[11:58] say every one of the pro-Israel and I

[11:59] don't say acts that way, but I I got

[12:02] texts about you, Megan,

[12:04] >> saying, "Why is Megan like doing the

[12:07] bidding of Hamas?" I was like, "What are

[12:09] you talking about? Megan's the best."

[12:11] >> Like, what? She's amazing. And I said,

[12:13] "Why are you texting me about Megan?"

[12:15] >> And at that point, And so this is what

[12:18] they don't understand. You and I, Megan,

[12:20] and Tucker is in the same category and

[12:22] they've tried to go after Tucker.

[12:24] >> Yeah. is that the and and the more you

[12:27] attack our moral character,

[12:30] the actually the more we're going to

[12:31] double down into direction because screw

[12:34] you. I don't do it that way. Okay?

[12:36] Right? Like when tell me I'm wrong.

[12:39] Cool. Tell me if I've got my facts

[12:41] wrong. By the way, on the Epstein thing,

[12:42] Navali Bennett says he was an Epstein

[12:44] agent. We have to be pursuers of truth.

[12:46] They've denied it. Fine. Let's keep

[12:47] digging. Okay. Fine. But the the the the

[12:51] thing that I don't think I think is

[12:53] being lost is like on some part of the

[12:55] population, you can scold them into

[12:58] silence, right? But if I have any

[13:02] deviation of a purity test,

[13:05] >> any deviation whatsoever, such as

[13:07] hosting a focus group, right, Megan,

[13:10] >> with a bunch of our students that went

[13:11] viral, having Dave Smith or Tucker at my

[13:14] event,

[13:14] >> it is all of a sudden, oh, Charlie is a

[13:17] uh he's he's no longer with us and all

[13:20] that. I said, wait a second. What do you

[13:21] mean? What does with us mean exactly?

[13:23] Right.

[13:24] >> I'm an American. Okay. Like I I I

[13:26] represent this country and I I don't

[13:30] even understand that paradigm. But

[13:31] Megan, I think you would agree with

[13:32] this. I want to make sure we fast like

[13:34] really zero in on this personality types

[13:38] like you, myself, and Tucker. The more

[13:41] that you guys privately and publicly

[13:44] call our character into question, which

[13:47] is not isolated, right, Megan? It would

[13:48] be one thing if it was one text or two

[13:50] text. It is dozens of texts.

[13:53] >> Yes. Then we start to say, "Hold the

[13:57] boat here." And and to be fair, some of

[13:59] my really good Jewish friends are like,

[14:00] "That's not all of us. It's all But

[14:02] these are leaders, too, though, right?

[14:03] These are these are stakeholders, right?

[14:06] And so, look, I I'm I'm afraid because,

[14:09] again, I want civilization to win. I

[14:11] want the West to win. I don't want the

[14:13] Islamopascist barbarians to storm the

[14:16] gates of Jerusalem. I want the holy

[14:18] sites protected. I believe in the Holy

[14:20] Land. I love that Jesus walked on water

[14:23] there and rose from the dead and

[14:25] preached in the uh the mount of

[14:26] biatitudes like I I feel the connection

[14:29] to Israel and I but at the same time

[14:32] simultaneously

[14:33] when the hostile reaction is that now

[14:37] Megan and Charlie are enemies

[14:40] >> right

[14:40] >> boy I'll tell you like you're you're

[14:42] you're you're going to you're not going

[14:44] to I won't say lose but you will weaken

[14:46] and just basically deflate two of your

[14:50] strongest advocates if that continues.

[14:52] >> Right. And it to me I laugh because it's

[14:54] like I've been bullied by the best of

[14:57] them. The best and it it didn't work and

[15:02] it's not going to work with them. And

[15:05] the more you try to tell me I can't

[15:07] criticize Israel, the more likely I am

[15:10] to do it. To focus on exactly what

[15:12] you're doing, right? Like what what are

[15:14] you doing that you're so defensive? You

[15:16] don't own me. I don't I don't take $1 of

[15:19] money from any Jewish affiliated group.

[15:21] That's not that's never been what what

[15:23] my show's model. I take, you know, Cozy

[15:25] Earth is my sponsor. Uh people like

[15:27] Genuisell, those are the people I take

[15:29] and I and I probably would feel

[15:30] reluctant to criticize Genuisell, which

[15:32] is a great product, so I probably

[15:33] wouldn't do it anyway. My point is

[15:34] simply, I have my honest opinions, which

[15:38] is why I had credibility for the two

[15:41] years I've been defending them, right?

[15:44] And I still have that credibility. And I

[15:46] don't need lectures from my friends who

[15:48] are more pro-Israel than I am or who are

[15:50] just American Jewish people who are

[15:53] concerned about what's happening. I

[15:54] don't need lectures on my coverage.

[15:56] Okay? I'll call it like I see it. And

[15:59] you have no right to come on this show

[16:01] and demand a debate with me because I've

[16:03] said something you disagree with. It's

[16:05] my show and I'll decide the coverage we

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