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Charlie Kirk is the Founder and President of Turning Point USA, the largest and fastest growing conservative youth activist organization in the country with over 250,000 student members, over 150 full-time staff, and a presence on over 2,000 high school and college campuses nationwide. Charlie is also the Chairman of Students for Trump, which aims to activate one million new college voters on campuses in battleground states in the lead up to the 2020 presidential election. His social media reaches over 100 million people per month and according to Axios, he is one of the "top 10 most engaged" Twitter handles in the world. He is also the host of “The Charlie Kirk Show,” which regularly ranks among the top news shows on Apple podcast charts.
Charlie Kirk Debates Moral Truth, Abortion, Race, and the Black Community with College Students
Charlie Kirk engages in a heated debate with college students on campus about objective truth versus subjective morality, the definition of human life, and abortion. The conversation shifts to race relations in America, affirmative action, and the history of the black community. Drawing on Thomas Sowell's research, Andrew argues that the black community experienced a Renaissance in the 1950s and 60s despite discrimination, but was undermined by Lyndon Baines Johnson's Great Society programs. The discussion touches on Malcolm X's warnings about white liberals, the War on Drugs, police militarization, and the rise of single motherhood in black communities from 28% in 1945 to 65-70% today.
The Foundation: Objective Truth vs Subjective Opinion
The debate begins with a fundamental philosophical question: why should one person's opinion matter more than another's? When a student argues that everything is subjective, Charlie Kirk challenges this premise directly. He asks whether it's objectively true that they're having a conversation, forcing an acknowledgment that not everything is subjective. This sets the stage for a discussion about whether moral truths exist or if all positions are equally valid.
The student maintains that morality is subjective, but when pressed on whether murder is wrong, concedes that it is. This leads directly into the abortion debate, where Andrew asks why abortion shouldn't be illegal if murder is wrong. The crux of the disagreement becomes: what constitutes a human being?
Defining Human Life and the Abortion Debate
When asked what defines a human, the student responds that a human is "someone with a consciousness who is alive in this world." Andrew counters with a different definition: "the creation of DNA that will never exist again and a soul goes into that moment." The student immediately challenges the concept of a soul, asking what it is. Andrew describes it as "the eternal, indistinguishable, nonvisible being of your existence."
The student rejects this definition because it's not provable, highlighting the fundamental disagreement. Andrew argues that at some point, somebody's truth has to win because decisions must be made. The debate becomes heated when the student claims "your truth has been the narrative of this country forever."
Andrew points out that abortion was legal in this country for 40 years before being overturned. The conversation takes a sharp turn when the student mentions that crime dropped 40% after abortion became legal. Andrew asks who has the most abortions in America, and when the answer comes back as black women, he challenges the student: "Are you trying to say the termination of blacks in the womb lower crime? That's a very racist argument." The student denies this is racist, but Andrew presses the point, noting that blacks account for approximately 45% of abortions despite being a much smaller percentage of the population.
Race, Privilege, and Different Experiences
A black female student enters the conversation, arguing that Andrew has privilege that skews his view on other people's lives. She contends that he can't step in her shoes as a black woman and relate to her experiences, therefore it's not fair for him to choose what she gets to do with her life as "a black woman in a white society."
Andrew asks what being black has to do with truth. The student argues there are different experiences and her truth might not be the same. Andrew then asks pointed questions about affirmative action: "Did you get into college easier than I do?" When she confirms affirmative action exists, he argues, "You get jobs and internships that white kids don't get."
The student responds with frustration about being characterized as privileged, but Andrew maintains that there are entire movements dedicated to her race. When asked if he believes racism exists, Andrew responds, "Of course racism exists. The Democrat party is still alive and well." He also states that racism against white people happens "all the time" and that "affirmative action is racism against white people and Asians."
College Demographics and Affirmative Action
The student challenges Andrew's position on affirmative action by asking why most colleges are predominantly white if affirmative action supposedly discriminates against white people. Andrew responds that America is a majority white country, so colleges should reflect that demographic reality. He adds that in certain campuses, blacks are actually disproportionately represented compared to their population percentage because of affirmative action.
Andrew then asks a broader philosophical question: "Why does skin color matter at all? Why should we care?" The student responds that it matters "because of the society we live in" and the history of what has happened to people. Andrew interrupts to ask what he can do that she can't do, pointing to affirmative action as an example of lowering test standards and quotas. The student denies this is how it works, but Andrew insists it is.
Black-on-Black Crime and Community Statistics
The conversation shifts when Andrew asks if the student believes in black-on-black crime. She confirms she does, and Andrew states it's abundant and "the number one cause of death in many black communities." He notes he's "just being honest" about this statistical reality.
Thomas Sowell and the Black Renaissance
Andrew pivots to ask if the student knows who Thomas Sowell is. She doesn't, and Andrew encourages her to look him up, describing him as "one of the best black economists of the 20th century" who grew up in Harlem. According to Andrew, Sowell's research shows that the black community was "experiencing a Renaissance in the 50s and 60s despite discrimination."
The student partially agrees but qualifies that it wasn't the black community as a whole, just certain areas like Harlem. Andrew concedes this point but moves to what he considers the critical issue: he's "against systemic racism argument" but acknowledges one major injustice. He argues that when Democrat Lyndon Baines Johnson came in, he "destroyed the black nuclear family" through the Great Society program, and "that has to be undone."
The War on Drugs and Government Involvement
The student asks if Andrew believes the War on Drugs also played a part in harming black communities. While stating he believes "we should be very harsh on drugs," Andrew gives "some merit to the argument of some government agencies pedaling cocaine in the inner cities," noting there is evidence to show this happened.
Andrew then presents a statistic he finds fascinating: single motherhood in the black community was about 28% in 1945, but now it's around 65 to 70%. He asks, "Why are we more racist than we were in 1945?" The student answers "no," then lists factors including "militarization, the War on Drugs, the demolishing of the nuclear family." She maintains that "due to the history that's happened, racism is still very prevalent in a lot of the systems that are in America."
Malcolm X's Warning About White Liberals
Andrew notices the student is wearing a Malcolm X shirt and points out that Malcolm X was "super pro-life." He argues that Malcolm X could "teach a lot of the black movement something because more so than Martin Luther King." Andrew explains that Malcolm X is often misdescribed as violent, when that was "a very small part of his literature." Instead, Malcolm X was "very big on trying to get black America to succeed despite the white liberals."
When the student asks Andrew to clarify, he emphasizes "the white liberal" and encourages her to "look up the Malcolm X white liberal quote." Andrew argues that "Malcolm X warned against white liberals owning Black America for their own gain, which is exactly what BLM is."
Truth, Experience, and Make America Great Again
Returning to the original philosophical question, Andrew is asked if he believes his truth is different than the student's experiences. He distinguishes between experiences and truth: "Experiences can be different but there is always a truth." He gives the example of five people having different opinions about a car crash, "but eventually a truth will be revealed of what really happened."
When pressed on whether he believes his truth is the ultimate truth, Andrew responds, "I would hope so, yeah, and I'm willing to learn." He then references his "Make America Great Again" position and reiterates that Malcolm X "can teach us a lot right now."
Police Militarization and the Crime Wave
The conversation concludes with a discussion about the militarization of police in the 1960s and 70s. Andrew states he's "generally very pro-police" but when pressed on the militarization specifically, he admits the causation question is complex. He explains there was "a massive crime wave in the early 1970s in New York where a lot of New Yorkers demanded more police with heavy weaponry and the ability to enforce the law."
The student argues that post-militarization, crime went up and then down in the 80s, with violent crime going "big time down." She draws a correlation between police militarization and more people being arrested for crimes and put into jail for minor offenses. Andrew acknowledges he "can't disagree with that" regarding the prison system, but notes that people go to prison because "they commit crimes."
