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Charlie Kirk is the Founder and President of Turning Point USA, the largest and fastest growing conservative youth activist organization in the country with over 250,000 student members, over 150 full-time staff, and a presence on over 2,000 high school and college campuses nationwide. Charlie is also the Chairman of Students for Trump, which aims to activate one million new college voters on campuses in battleground states in the lead up to the 2020 presidential election. His social media reaches over 100 million people per month and according to Axios, he is one of the "top 10 most engaged" Twitter handles in the world. He is also the host of “The Charlie Kirk Show,” which regularly ranks among the top news shows on Apple podcast charts.
Charlie Kirk Defends Pro-Life Position Against College Students in Heated Santa Barbara Debate
Charlie Kirk faces off with college students in Santa Barbara over abortion, systemic racism, and the separation of church and state. The debate grows intense as students challenge his pro-life stance, arguing for bodily autonomy and subjective morality. Kirk counters by questioning when life begins, citing adoption statistics, and arguing that abortion is murder. The conversation touches on black communities, police militarization, Thomas Sowell's research on the nuclear family, and Malcolm X's warnings about white liberals. Kirk also debates a church drummer who believes life begins at first breath, leading to a tense exchange about biblical interpretation and cesarean sections.
The Battle Over Objective Truth and Moral Standards
The debate opened with a fundamental challenge to Charlie Kirk's authority on moral questions. Students immediately pressed him on why his opinion should carry more weight than anyone else's. Kirk countered by establishing that objective truth exists, using the undeniable fact of their conversation as evidence that not everything is subjective.
When pressed on moral relativism, Kirk argued that while experiences may differ, there must always be an underlying truth—similar to how multiple witnesses to a car crash may have different perspectives, but ultimately one true account of what happened exists. This set the stage for the central debate: if truth exists, whose version of truth should prevail?
When Does Life Begin? The Central Abortion Question
The conversation quickly turned to abortion, with Kirk asserting that life begins at conception based on the creation of unique DNA. Students challenged this, with one arguing that consciousness and being alive in the world define humanity. Kirk pressed the issue: if a fetus has unique DNA and a soul enters at conception, why shouldn't that be protected as human life?
When a student argued that abortion lowered crime rates by 40 percent, Kirk turned the argument on its head. He pointed out that African Americans have the highest abortion rates in the country at 45 percent, asking if the student was suggesting that terminating Black babies reduced crime—a position he called deeply racist. The student backtracked, but the point landed.
Kirk shared graphic details about abortion procedures, describing how babies fight and struggle during dilation and extraction abortions. He emphasized that most women don't see ultrasounds before their abortions and argued they're victims of an industry that doesn't provide informed consent. While he believes abortion is murder, he doesn't think women should be jailed—only the abortionists who knowingly perform the procedures.
Adoption Waiting Lists and the Unwanted Child Myth
When students raised concerns about children being born into poverty or to mothers who couldn't care for them, Kirk presented a compelling statistic: there are over one million abortions every year in America, but two million people actively waiting to adopt. He argued that the concept of an "unwanted child" is largely a myth given current adoption demand.
Kirk acknowledged that the adoption system has bureaucratic problems that need addressing, but insisted that poverty alone shouldn't be a death sentence for an unborn child—especially when abortion itself is a guaranteed death sentence.
Race, Identity, and the Black Community
A Black female student argued that race matters because of America's history of oppression and ongoing systemic racism. She questioned Kirk's ability to understand her experiences as a Black woman in a white society. Kirk responded by asking what specifically she couldn't do that he could, pointing to affirmative action as evidence that the system often favors minorities in college admissions and job opportunities.
The conversation touched on single motherhood in the Black community, with Kirk citing Thomas Sowell's research showing that Black America experienced a renaissance in the 1940s, 50s, and 60s despite facing more discrimination than today. He argued that the real catastrophe came when President Lyndon Baines Johnson's Great Society programs destroyed the Black nuclear family. Single motherhood in the Black community rose from 28 percent in 1945 to 65-70 percent today—a change Kirk attributes to policy, not racism.
Kirk praised Malcolm X's warnings about white liberals exploiting Black communities for their own gain, drawing parallels to modern movements like Black Lives Matter. A student wearing a Malcolm X shirt engaged respectfully on this point, showing some agreement.
A Veteran Challenges Kirk on Systemic Racism
A military veteran confronted Kirk about why conservatives deny racism exists, pointing to segregated neighborhoods and multiple race riots, including the 2020 protests. Kirk asked him to name one thing a Black man cannot do that a white man can. The veteran cited being arrested at a DeSantis rally while expressing his views.
Kirk dismissed this as insufficient evidence of systemic racism, suggesting that if the veteran was heckling at a political event, he'd be kicked out regardless of race. He noted that white people from suburbs like Highland Park actually get arrested more often in similar circumstances.
When the conversation turned to Black-on-black crime in Chicago—with 420 of 530 murders last year being gang-related—Kirk asked how racism explained this. The veteran attempted to discuss over-policing and segregation, but Kirk argued he was demonstrating an inability to address the actual issue. Kirk maintained that America is fundamentally not a racist country, pointing out that the best evidence the veteran could provide was a personal anecdote about being kicked out of a rally.
Separation of Church and State: A Biblical Debate
A church drummer challenged Kirk on the separation of church and state, leading to a constitutional debate. Kirk explained that the phrase doesn't appear in the Constitution—it comes from Thomas Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptist Convention, assuring them the state wouldn't interfere with the church.
The First Amendment states that "Congress shall make no law establishing religion or prohibiting the exercise thereof." Kirk argued this means the government can't establish an official religion or prohibit religious practice—not that religious people and institutions can't influence government.
Kirk used COVID church closures as evidence that the separation isn't truly observed: if church and state were meant to be separate, why did the government have authority to shut down churches? The drummer argued it was for public safety, but Kirk countered that this proved the government can restrict religion whenever it deems necessary—contradicting the principle of separation.
Does Life Begin at First Breath?
The debate took a theological turn when the drummer argued that life begins at first breath, not conception. Kirk cited biblical passages including Jeremiah's "I knew you before you were in the womb" and Psalm 139:13-16 about being "fearfully and wonderfully made" in the mother's womb.
When Kirk asked if a 26-week premature baby saved by cesarean section isn't alive until it breathes outside the womb, the drummer struggled to maintain consistency. Kirk then dismantled the claim that abortion is sometimes necessary to save the mother's life, explaining that cesarean sections can save both mother and baby in virtually all cases.
The drummer, who supports abortion up until birth in cases where the mother's life is at risk, couldn't explain how a cesarean wouldn't be preferable to abortion. Kirk closed by telling him that as someone who plays drums at a church, he should prayerfully reconsider his position supporting what Kirk called "the most horrific and brutal eugenic non-Christian abortion policies" imaginable.
Finding Common Ground with a Marxist
In a surprising turn, a self-identified Marxist approached Kirk to find common ground on corporate monopolies. She appreciated Kirk's critiques of multinational corporations and asked how he'd address monopolistic tendencies without using big government—a contradiction given his conservative principles.
Kirk acknowledged that Marxist focus on class conflict isn't entirely wrong, stating that powerful people do try to stomp on those with less. However, he rejected the Marxist view that entrepreneurial activity inherently results in exploitation. He argued that the vast majority of economic activity in America—small businesses, local services, voluntary exchanges—is beautiful and beneficial, not exploitative.
Kirk explained that sometimes antitrust authority is necessary to break up companies like Google, but warned that more regulation often helps mega-corporations by creating barriers smaller companies can't afford. He cited Facebook advocating for data privacy regulations that only they can comply with, preventing competitors like Rumble from emerging.
The Marxist student agreed that small businesses aren't doing well, especially after the pandemic, and suggested that so much industry going overseas through trade agreements means large corporations now dominate American employment. While they agreed to disagree on whether most economic activity is exploitative, they found consensus on one point: break up Google.
Video Transcript
okay okay so one thing I want to start off with is why does your opinion Trump over any other people's opinion right so there do you believe that there is a truth out there everything is subjective but there is a right or wrong morally especially when you're in a cultured society that is um based off a set of standards and Norms that we act on and we like act as so so everything is subjective so is it objectively true you and I are having a conversation right now yes so that's not subjective then so not everything is subjective so why do you believe morals right so something is objective yes but why do you believe your subjective opinion trumps over other people's opinion let me ask you another question I'll tell I will please don't interrupt me you can no let me finish my sentence I do not want to hear it you think that your opinion is over other people's opinions you think you were right subjectively but is right or wrong okay is murder wrong yes of course well then abortion should be answer what constitutes a human what is a the oor ribonucleic acid and the and concep to me a human would be someone with a Consciousness who is alive in this world guess what you're wrong no you're wrong because I think that's right and you think that's right me prove it wrong what constitutes a human being what is the definition of human being the creation of DNA that will never exist again and a soul goes into that moment I don't expect you guys a soul a soul what's a soul the what is the soul what is the soul the eternal IND distinguish let's just say nonvisible being of your of your existence I don't believe that I don't believe anything isal and that does not make yours hold on a second at some here's the thing at some point somebody's truth has to win because guess what your truth is your truth doesn't matter that's you had your truth in this country for the past thousands of decades your thousands of decades not thousands whatever that's a little embarrassing but like your your truth has been The Narrative of this country forever and you think Ro verus just got repealed abortion was legal in this country for 40 years and before the 40 years what was it and crime dropped after it oh wait hold on do you think abortion lowers crime rates crime crime dropped 40% after abortion became legal why is that the case uh it's called a statistic who who has the most abortions in America um women black people is that so are you trying to say the termination of blacks in the womb lower crime that's a that's a very racist argument that is not a racist you know blacks blacks have 45% of I woulding [Applause] African what sir that's a question huh that's aing you guys can come up and talk if you want yeah it's like it's 95 degrees out here man so yes sir no you're the racist you're the says that abortion lowers crime rates and blacks have the most abortions in the country I believe not name calling wait is it not black lives matter or is it African-American lives matter both oh really okay I thought it was BLM so I say blacks okay he was just okay not too much Andrew do you believe that you have some sort of privilege that skews your view on other people's lives because personally I don't believe you could step in my shoes as a black woman and relate and understand the things so I feel like it's not fair for you to choose what I get to do with my life because I a black woman in a white Society what does being black have to do with truth because there are different things that we experience and my truth might not be what did you get into college easier than I do what primitive action yes you get jobs and internships that white kids don't get po white people you have you have entire movements dedicated to your race we're so like those movements are to get right you're crazy okay do you not believe in racism of course racism exists the Democrat party is still alive and well do you think people are racist against white people all the time all the time that's his affirmative action is racism against white people and Asians as well and Asians that's right so I I do have a question in that sense if affirmative action is racism why are most colleges predominantly white why are they most predominantly white why are most colleges public colleges are we are we're a majority white country you realize that right so so Coles are the depiction of the nation okay and actually blacks on campus are disproportionate more than their population in certain areas in certain campuses than their population because of affirmative action HC certain campuses so but let me just ask a more broad philosophical question why does skin color matter at all why should we care of society we live in because of the we're dismissing anything that has ever happened to someone ask you a question what can what can you do or what can I do that you can't do whatw exp how affirmative action is lowering of test standards and quot for a quot no it's not it's the way it works it's the way it works I'm not going to entertain fallacies you me why does skin color matter I believe skin color matters because of the society not being respectful do you I guess it goes into because of the society we have lived in race is a factor if from the beginning of time race wasn't a factor and there was never anybody who was oppressed because of their race I feel like it would not play a part in anything that you do but because they were interrupting you I was you believe black on black crime do I believe in black onblack crime yeah it's abundance yeah it's the number one cause of death in many black commun I'm just being honest like right so do you so back to our previous argument that was interrupted um so in the sense of what like like I was saying you don't believe like because of the history and because somebody races have been oppressed you don't believe like race plays a part in things and you don't believe like no no no that's not true no so you know I do you know who Thomas soul is you know who Thomas soul is no I really encourage you to look Thomas Soul's great he's one of the best black economists of the 20th century grew up in Harlem and he's done the best research in the 1940s 1950s and 60s black community and essentially his argument is that black America was experiencing a Renaissance in the 50s and 60s despite discrimination yes now the one part that I would agree with but however it's not the black community as a whole it's Harlem black community there Chicago too but let's pretend you're right okay the one argument that I would agree with and I'm I'm against systemic racism arguments the one that I would say you know what there was something very wrong is when Democrat Lynden Baines Johnson came in and destroyed the black nuclear family if there was one part where I could say you know what that was unjust and that has to be undone it's when lynen Baines Johnson went in through the Great Society program with the intent to destroy the black nuclear family okay so in that sense do you believe the War on Drugs also played a part or you not believe in the War on Drugs well look I mean I believe we should be very harsh on drugs but I think there is I would give some Merit to the argument of some government agencies pedaling cocaine in the inner cities there there is evidence to show that I'm not going to debate it do I think it has the so for examp like there's one number that I'm fascinated with right single motherhood in the black community was about 28% in 1945 okay now it's around 65 to 70% why are we more racist than we were in 1945 no okay so then what happened milit the War on Drugs okay on drugs um the demolish demolishing the nuclear family in a sense and I believe due to the history that's happened it racism is still very prevalent in a lot of the systemic I mean a lot of the systems that are in America correct yeah so no no of course not but I'm actually I was actually caught by your shirt you know Malcolm X was super pro life yes I I think Malcolm X could teach a lot of the black movement something cuz more so than Martin Luther King because Malcolm X I'm I'm getting there Mal Max some people Miss don't describe him correctly as being violent right that was a very small part of his literature he was very big on trying to get black Amer America to suide succeed despite the black despite the white liberal yes not the white liberal he did say white liberal oh you go look up the Malcolm X white liberal quote and so I think that's just think about it go look up Malcolm X warned against white liberals owning Black America for their own gain which is exactly what BLM is okay so back to my back to my initial point back to my initial point you don't believe that my truth can be different than yours specifically B experiences can be different but there is always a truth I'll give you an example we all might have five different opinions of a car crash right but eventually a truth will be revealed of what really happened does that make sense so you believe that your truth is your the truth that you have found yourself is the ultimate truth I would hope so yeah and I'm willing to learn and then make America great again otherwise mean and I'm actually I think X can teach us a lot right now yes what do you think about like the 1960s and70s militarization of the police the shift in the police um yeah I mean I I'm generally very Pro police what about the what about the military I mean the question is what came first and I honestly don't know the answer was it the rising crime or was it the incre was it the the police that went into the inter if you knew what you were talking about you would know the answer it's not so clear um because there was a massive crime wave in the early 1970s in New York where a lot of New Yorkers demanded more police with Heaven heavy heavier weaponry and the ability to enforce the law and post militarization of the police crime went up and then it went down in the ' 80s violent crime went big time down let's talk about the 10 years that right after what happened there what do you think happened so so you're drawing a correlation between police officers being militarized and more people committing crimes over militarization of the police yes is uh not exactly more people committing crimes more people being arrested for crimes and put into jail or yeah I mean I can't I can't disagree with that uh the prison system I mean that we account for why do people go to prison right they commit crimes so let me ask you this if if you knew for certain the baby would you agree it's a baby is that a good term to use if it's in a womb is that a baby I think most people would say fetus proba fetus yeah okay so what does fetus mean in Latin I think a fetus is a growing child it's a developing you're right Molly you know it means a little human yeah um it's just using fetus is nothing more than a cope for what you know it is it's a baby right so it's just obviously not if we're here debating it I don't think it's a settled you don't have to use the word fetus just makes people feel better it's obviously a baby no I mean obviously you wouldn't take like you know a fetus that just has like a heart and like their brain isn't fully formed and be like that's the same as like a one-month-old like we obviously see differences between development from then and there so but then how about 30 weeks that's where it becomes a lot more contentious but the point being is that we don't look at a fetus from it beginning stages and be like yeah that's the same thing as my like three-month year old cousin well hold on that's a 9-month-old is not the same thing as a one-month-old okay so you can go the progression of development continues the question is when does it start yeah that's a million-- dollar question I agree with that do you think conception of course that's the only answer most women I don't believe even know that they're pregnant before 6 weeks so like around like these the heartbeats and Stu like that the the knowledge of your pregnancy doesn't mean that you're not pregnant no no no that's not what I'm saying but I'm saying like practicality wise there are many instances of women who act who have miscarriages without even ever knowing because it might just present as like a very heavy cycle that month that's fine but it doesn't make it any less a life right sure go ahead Miley no but do would do you do you mourn that miscarriage in the same way you more like an abortion like a the same way no it's not the same way no but it's still it's still a tragedy a miscarriage is a tragedy if she doesn't know about it but an abortion is an act of human will a miscarriage most times is not now sometimes it can be a miscarriage because you drank alcohol and you didn't know you were pregnant or you might have taken a drug that have side effects but yes a a miscarriage is a tragedy yes I have a question um so do you care about the children once they're born I mean I care a lot about them yeah so how so if a if say a woman got R worded or something or even if she just got pregnant and grid one motor $200 life is not subjective and we know this because you are speaking of killing it why is it so easy for you ladies to kill kids if your comfort and lifestyle more important than a life um anyway my question was what was I saying oh if you saying if somebody was someone forced sex upon thems it's the word even like not even just that but say like if the mother like was homeless or something say like she didn't have a good life do you still think that child deserves to be brought into the world just to Suffer Well so it's not a guarantee of suffering number one one sec one one the answer is yes the life should be brought into the world there are twice as many people on the adoption waiting list then so many people well let let me ask you guys and I don't I'm just curious how many abortions do you think there are a year in America I have no tens of thousands I assume any other guesses no I have no clue what if I told you there was over a million abortions every year that wouldn't surprise me at all but you went from tens of thousands to a million I mean there's billions of people on the on the yeah there's 340 million in America that's right no but do you think does as far as like reported ones because even just reporting data is going to be incomplete because that doesn't count myth pressone which is the chemical abortion that people at home it doesn't count Plan B right and even if like abortion were illegal for example we stopped Gathering data on like who procures abortions there would be so many there's so many now even with states where it's still legal Texas it's gone down dramatically so hundreds of thousands no they're still happening it's just they're 0% are just doing it to themselves right it's a 90% abortion reduction rate in Texas I don't want to dwell on that too much though I'm just so there's a million abortions every single year and there's twice as many people on the adop there's 2 million people actively on the adoption waiting list so there's really no such thing currently there could be but currently of an unwanted child so there's 2 million people wanting to adopt and there's a million people that have abortions every single year so there's twice as many people that want to get a child now there's a longer conversation about making it less bureaucratic without allowing bad people to adopt kids for bad Reasons I'm perfectly open for that conversation but um to answer your question I don't love the premise it's a good it's a really good question because a lot of people have it I don't necessarily believe being boring in poverty is a death sentence or is a reason to terine it no no no I but abortion is a death sentence so I don't think poverty should give you a death sentence would you say abortion is murder oh of course 100% do you think that people who abortions women specifically a woman who procures an abortion should go to jail for getting one absolutely yeah they're the moral equivalent of aitz really yes um millions of women are are basically the same as like Nazi the women are victims they're lied to 90% of women do not see an ultrasound before they have an abortion they have no idea what's happening to them they are the victims here it is the abortionists that are doing this but let me ask you and I mean this have you guys ever seen an abortion on a video I'm sorry if women are the victims here why should they be jailed well I don't believe they should be jailed I think the the abortionist abist believe that abortion is murder but a murderer shouldn't go to jail I didn't say that the doctors the abortionists the people that call themselves doctors the people that put women under general anesthesia and go into women do they ask they are doctors they're medical are you going to just discount the accountability of my current perspective is because the women are not given what is called informed consent that the women should not be penalized they should not be um they shouldn't be penalized in fact they should be Grace from A system that has lied to them and has misled them they are not given the full picture of exactly what's happening to them informed cassette has not happened so these women are the victims the abortionists one second the abortionists are the ones that know exactly what's happening and if you haven't seen a video of an abortion I'm not going to say anything too graphic it is one of the hardest things to watch the baby fights the baby struggles the baby Dodges the baby avoids they break the neck of the baby they euthanize it through the spring it's not it's not a joke and then they tear it limb from limb through there if you're trying to tell me that's you know that's like a if you're talking about yeah like they're called dilation and extraction abortions a baby has a backbone at 6 weeks in a spine it has a complete figure it's small it's like probably a small size of like a grape yeah yes but by 8 weeks or 12 weeks and you're talking about the vast majority of abortions are performed in the first trimester that's right so when you just the type of abortion that you described is literally like minority of the time and those are wanted pregnancies because usually those women want those pregnancies they weren't able they don't know they're pregnant until they're six week your point they weren't carry those abort those children to term because of health risks to their own life or to the infants right so without getting into that no no infant should be terminated because of health risk to the infant okay that's insane it's like you're going to kill the baby because the baby has health risks not just health risks these are deform like oh let me ask you these are medical Hold On Down syndrome should we abort Down syndrome kids no no iseland has they said if you have Down syndrome you're done so that's not a new phenomenon they've gotten rid of down syndrome if you have a DNA test of down syndrome they abort the kid I think that's cruel and unusual that is okay we agree good I think there are frivolous reasons to procure abortions but I don't believe that that just because there are frivolous reasons to get them that means it should be outlawed but should murder be outlawed yeah but like you were saying you you even though you believe that those women have a hand in committing the murder and infanticide basically of their own children they shouldn't go to jail they have not been given informed consent they don't people who are addicted to drugs do you think only drug dealers should go to jail but not people who actually try to buy drugs and consume depends it depends what drug it is it depends the category the class the is there a single drug where you would say that somebody who is buying and consuming drugs that they are addicted to should not be going to jail but their only their drug dealer should be going to jail I mean I think Fentanyl and heroin potentially but it's a completely separate issue because a lot of people know the informed consent of heroin and Fentanyl it's not we have PSAs we have Billboards stop using fentanyl stop doing fentanyl how many times have you heard that have you but they have a chemical depend now that prevents them from being able to make that how often have we ever had an honest conversation with women in this country saying that having an abortion increases the threat the chances for depression anxiety medication dependence um as having a kid well hold on having children carries all of those same risks you think having children you think having children is no don't mischaracterize me that's not true I'm not going to say that having a child necessarily gives you depression what she said can come with it like postpartum depression for example is extremely common temporary and shortlived and obviously not always temporary and shortlived it's that's not permanent Years of Living with postpartum depression can simply constitute a temporary medical issue let let's theoretically even Grant so so you're saying because of potential postpartum depression or financial burdens the moral answer is allow women to go in no that was never my argument this had nothing to do with morality this was a completely separate question I'm only saying that I feel like you're trivializing and downplaying how serious conditions like postpartum depression can be when you want to write it off as like a temporary medical it's obvious when it can be years long battle having children is a serious Choice out so what percentage of abortions according to the gutmacher Institute are not rape not incest and not life of the mother what percentage would you say probably the vast majority 97% so is abortion now birth control yes or no no no I don't think so I think that's uh situational to each and Molly do you think that birth control it could be called birth control in certain because you're talking about over a million abortion but there tens of millions of women that are on birth control that are that have iuds that take birth control pills so obviously that's not the only reason why but it's a form of birth control is it not form birth control but you acknowledge that it's not the predominant form of birth control no I didn't say that all onest I said it's birth control yeah but we're not disagreeing with the category I'm talking about the prevalency if it's birth control then why would we allow it to continue if it's not if you put the rape incest life the mother which we can debate I didn't but no I'm going to put that aside for a second then why should we allow a horrific procedure to continue that has such heavy and dire consequences and results in a child not being able to live outside of the womb you're loading it so much by saying a horrific procedure most women who procure abortions actually report being happy long term because they made the choice because there's many different reasons why women get abortion some women aren't in a financial position to have a child at that time and actually decide to have children later why how' they get pregnant what do you mean they had sex unprotected or an accident so they they want the orgas without the responsibility do you think the majority of women are having orgasms in sex are you serious have you seen the studies on orgasm gaps between men and women I'll be honest so they want all the pleasure they want all but it's it's you want you want all the loose lifestyle but none of the responsibil now now you're you're framing it like the punishment for having it should like orgasm should be punished no no no the way that you're framing it which is not a punish you want the Loosey Goosey parts of sex like the orgasm but you don't want the responsibility of a child it's like yeah some people want to be a to have sex okay no you you articulate it perfectly you I'm going to be able to have sex how I want and if I have to go put a dagger through or have someone put a dagger through a child for me then so be it I sure I guess no that you're being morally clear and basically it is it's my body I can do whatever I want with it even though let me ask you a question even though I like I said most women don't regret their abortions at all like the vast majority of women say report happiness and being okay with their decision I'm sure you think that they're lying or they're indoctrinated if it's not your DNA how is it your choice what if it's not your DNA why is it your choice the baby has partner's DNA and then it forms into yeah it has its own unique DNA that's not yours it's part of your DNA it's it's half oh so should the man then be able to have veto power over abortion well the point is the man isn't the one incubating child so I thought it's wa if it's about DNA if you but I never made the DNA argument you did the argument that I was going to make was or I was going to ask you the question um do you think another person has a right to your life and your body does another person have a right to well they my technically because abortion was legal when I was in utero someone did have a right to my life and body oh and my mom chose life praise God so did all your moms yeah my mom an abortion are you glad that she didn't have an abortion no so you would rather be dead I don't know I mean life can be different if would not be able to even know what you never what you never material never materialized a couple people wanted to come in really quick it looked like you wanted to come in I'd like to give you an opportunity to speak then I think you had more pixie than Molly go ahead go ahead um it was just back it's backtrack um just on what he was saying on not wanting to have the responsibility um I think that's really I don't really think that makes sense because I don't think sex is just for reproduction um it's just like asking you you know like every time I'm not trying to bring in your wife but you know you know every time you have sex with your wife it's purely for reproduction I feel like that is very unaccurate so I mean it's hard to expect everyone who isn't in in a marriage to just not have sex just because they don't want to get pregnant or just because they don't want to have that responsibility wait did you make did you even make the argument that sex is purely I don't think you did but Angel's making a good point and I want to give her credit for this which she's saying and it could be misunderstood that I was saying St sex is strictly for reproduction what I was saying is that everything in life has consequences and choices right and times the mainstream predominant narrative is that sex comes with almost no downsides and we're going to give you either the technology the procedure or whatever to try to limit those downsides um but the difference is that when my wife and I have sex if she results to be pregnant what she she did is that we live with that consequence which happens to be a positive consequence right a huge blessing now I understand what I'm saying is very very radical and very unpopular but the ideal should be far less people having premarital sex and trying to have sex within marital guidelines or the very least monogamous guidelines okay so that if there was to be a pregnancy that that baby could be loved and cared for and brought into this world I understand it's a it's a it's a hard ideal to even grasp and comprehend in a world where everything is very sex positive and sex abundant but it's an ideal that I I defend nth nonetheless I mean I don't think there's anything that's in contradiction with being sex positive but also wanting to help prevent unwanted pregnancies I would not I would just say to those women and those people having sex that you should be using birth control and Family Planning methods to make sure that you don't have any unexpected pregnancies that you don't want to have to skip the abortion part altogether I don't think anybody loves their abortion I'm just I only said that people just don't regret them are you guys familiar with what's happening with the um chemical abortion craze that's going on right now the pill that no not the pill that's different that's I'm talking about uh where they're mailing chemical abortion packets oh yeah where women are bleeding out and emergency room visits are up nearly 300% you know it's you guys should look into it it's a very serious thing and why is that because say it's because women don't have access to Safe abortion so they start resorting to these sorts of such thing as a safe abortion let me be honest really you said there were millions of women that got an abortion but you're going to say that none of them were all of them died after all the babies did but did the women is it safe is it unsafe to for a woman to procure an abortion but it doesn't hold on answer that question is it for sing abortion every single AB it's not unsafe that's why let them every every single abortion has a victim necessarily and mo many many times has a woman full of regret that we are now seeing and I'm not going to make up numbers out of nowhere but there is a growing community of abortion regret including you know people that are speaking out and they're saying I wish I wouldn't have and it resulted in either difficulty to have uh children in the future or care about their life that's that's a good question or what about the moms like like her mother who I wish I actually had had an abortion because that wasn't the life path that I wanted to go down but it was one that I chose to make do you care about those I care about all people so why why do I care do you care about that specific opinion somebody who regrets not getting an abortion regrets not no I I don't regret that mothers wanted to murder their you care about the opinions of moms who actually say I have a child but I'm not happy with having a family I actually wish I had gotten an abortion do you think that that why don't they just kill their kid then I think I don't think that it not necessarily follows that if you regret not getting an abortion that you're going to commit murder but it's the same thing yeah just put your head up for adoption about adoption if you regret it so bad justold I don't think most people at that point they're not going to their why not you regret it no no I'm not saying anything stopping them I'm saying most people system if you ask them like would you have rather had an abortion or a family some of them might say yeah actually family having a family and raising child is very hard to actually I had an doubt that that opinion might be not everybody is fit to be a parent but just answer your question really quick why why do I care if you cannot get the life question right then you you get every other question wrong when does Life Begin and I I care about the innocent I don't like bullies I don't like evil and I believe it is an act of evil to destroy those that can't defend themselves including the 1 million babies in are you Pro contraception are you Pro women personally or I'm agnostic on the question politically meaning it's legal so be it but I I I wouldn't consider it to be a good lifestyle Choice including including most specifically hormonal birth control now mind you I'm a over my skis on this being a man but I will yield to the growing community of women on both sides of the political aisle that are ditching their hormonal birth control because they say I don't like the way it makes me feel there has or they want an IUD which is a non second but there is a growing body of literature by Dr Daniel aan and many other people that say that show that the pill um increases anxiety and depression and suicidal I'm sorry certain types of ideation so again I am not going to act like expert on that but there is a there that's a legit Community online of people that are ditching hormonal birth control I think the way that you're like phrasing things of like oh no like murdering the babies is quite interesting because I don't think in like any other example where we have a person and their life is somehow connected to someone else if they decide like hey I don't want to do this anymore like I don't want to give my kidney to this person um I don't want to continue this blood transfusion I don't want to continue this process we wouldn't go and point to them and be like You're a murderer so I just think that there is a distinction to be made here when you're saying like oh no they're murdering babies um by just deciding that like hey actually I don't want this like fetus to continue using my lungs my blood my organs to continue developing like would you call somebody who doesn't want to have like give a blood transfusion or give a kidney or something like that a good question that's that's actually a good faith question so if I had the specific type of blood type okay and in a hypothetical desert island there happened to be a medical facility and somebody right there needed a blood transfusion and I said no I would be complicit in their death yes okay I'm saying that that is is the extrapolation of the hypothetical Artic if what is it to the point that you should be punished if you refuse to render Aid to that let me finish you can finish okay so if the government decided hey you know what like let's say Joe Biden is put in the hospital and you're the only person for whatever reason in the world that can like give him a kidney and you have to basically give him like constant transfusions of blood for like the next year would be a murder if you decideed not to do that well first I would do it even though I can't stand Joe Biden so yeah just just for the record and if it was only for 9 months yeah I'd do it and if you didn't do it do you think you should be punished with jail time or worse it depends the type of informed consent that goes alongside of it which goes back to why I believe women are lied to and women are victims in the abortion process and yes there are exceptions where women really know what's happening very very rare however I don't think the law should go towards women I think they are I first of all I just think that there should be grace and forgiveness because a lot of women go to abortions in crisis they feel overwhelmed they they are they feel feel um as if the world is against them the abortionists let me be very clear the people that call themselves medical doctors that know better that actually do the very damaging graphic removal of the baby those are the people that I think should be focused when it comes to law to your point though if for 9 months I would have to live a tougher life for another human being to live I would do that wait but it's not just a wait I just I want to be clear would like what Erin was saying earlier so do you think the government should be able to punish you for not doing that should you be able to go to jail or should the government be able to send you to jail because you didn't want to give blood transfusions to Joe Biden for 9 months should the government have that ability it depends if I knew the totality If there really were no other options if I said to if all of a sudden in this theoretical stranded desert island in this abstract thing and I had all the informed consent and Joe Biden was dying and he said help me out bro I need 9 months of your blood and I said no I would be at the very least third degree murder yes think that in that in that stranded because all of a sudden if I let him go and I say you know no I'm not going to give you my blood I'm not going to give you my stuff I personally wouldn't be able to live with myself if I have something that I don't need I maybe you guys agree or disagree if I have something that won't this is my own personal life you guys could disagree but if I have something that that will be make my life more difficult for 9 months to use the analogy right but it meant another life could continue I I would sign up in a second all right so I've been watching this for some odd years you know just oh Ma'am you've been doing it forever welcome to the first amendment I fought for can you Fay jacket sir thank you I brought it overseas all right sir just just ask me the question so what is it about conservatives in this whole racism thing like you guys are always just saying that it's either not a thing or it's you know just not in any of the institutions or the police department but it seems that over the past 18 years we've had several race riots and the biggest one being in 2020 so it's like how are we still denying segregation in a city where we can clearly see what neighborhoods are white which ones are black which ones are Latino and we know how we got there so it's like what is it with conservatives and admitting that there's a problem and not addressing it because it seems like you guys want to be obsessed with oh the gender thing or the racism thing and then you guys say oh it's not here it's not a big problem but why are millions of people rioting every couple years so let me ask you question we can say that it's Democrats and right let me ask you a question so do you what do you think is a bigger problem facing America single fatherhood or racism racism by far that's how can you say that say that in the microphone racism by far CU racism gets people killed not single fatherhood wa no single motherhood let me be more specific so so single moms their fathers leaving the home you think is a bigger problem than racism no sir sir sir you're gonna have I'm I'm gonna repeat that one again for you I think racism is a bigger problem than fathers being outside of the home however I do see fathers not being in the home is a problem let's make sure we're defining our terms how would you define racism then racism is a system of Oppression used by uh used by a certain group using Prejudice institutional power and it's situated by the media government and all these other ins so give me an example of one thing you as a black man cannot do that I as a white man can do in America got you okay so about two weeks ago right I went to a disantis rally got my ticket that good been to a million different you know rallies of a Kind whether you know I was a conservative at the time or whether I was a liberal right I know that as a black person I am far more likely to be arrested for expressing my view whether I'm a conservative or a liberal and I've done it on both sides and oh yes I was I was probably being a jerk that's why you and that's the best part and that's the best part right that's the best part I wasn't even being a jerk and the courts even found our beloved courts let me make sure I understand this so you think the bigger problem than fathers not being in the home is a abstract conspiracy theory that you have that hecklers and jerks at political events are arrested because the color of their skin that that's your that's the best definition of institutional racism that's that's not my definition on racism I did tell ex of something a white man like me can do that a black man like you can't do cuz guess what if I showed up at a dis santis event and started heckling be kicked out and arrested no you would not no you in fact I even have evence you know how I know that's true Suburban kids from Highland Park and they're arrested a lot more actually when you see the mug shots yeah oh so white kids are arrested a lot more could that possibly be could that possibly be and I'm and I'm just and I'm just guessing here could it possibly be that white people are arrested more because you have a higher population and therefore by proximity you are more like cuz it's math it's basically math I know we hate math I know we hate it but I passed itlike let me ask you a question how does racism contribute to black onblack crime in Chicago how is white people to blame for that oh as a matter of fact that's actually a whole other issue so let's talk about so you want to talk about interc communal violence as it pertains to What does a white man have to do with so oh and that's a great thing I love the red hairing that you threw in there yes because hey intra communal violence is proximal right so when we have segregation and we got races sitting in one area and you got another race in another area now we never ask white people why is white uh White onwhite crime so high with white people and never uh in but instead we focus on black people yeah so out of the 530 murders in Chicago of the last year how many were black on black crime hey I wasn't looking but you know what I do know well 420 of them were Black onblack Gang Related crimes how is that racism to blame for that talk so now are we going to talk about over policing I I'm sorry sir you're kind of demonstrating you can't would would you would you like to talk about I mean we can't talk about it we can are you ready to address it though well are you ready to address it are you cuz we can talk about because we can talk about black onblack crime but we need to talk about it as it pertains we need to okay let's talk about it sis we we I'm ready to talk all right hold on so let me let me just narrow this down so let me just let me just say this okay so you were to rank the 100 biggest problems in America yeah the fact that I know we're not a racist country is the best example you have is some story of you getting kicked out of a dis santis rally if we were a racist country you'd say Charlie I can't go in a convenience store Charlie I can't go into school no we actually live in such a a amazingly decent country that whoa whoa whoa let's not let's not do that okay all I did all right I was speak all I did was you're trying to pull mostly peaceful everybody mostly peace I didn't lay hands on you I didn't lay hands on you I got witnesses I did not touch you no I touched the M we're going to wrap this one up but let me just let me just say this we got racism in we we got racism all over the us we just had a race riot two three years ago in 2020 oh my God and then we had all 50 states plus 18 countries bur don't worry RI you mean you mean massing of TVs let let me tell you it is not an argument in your favor that we're a racist country because blacks deci decide to start burning down Wendy's and stealing stuff that's called criminality you're not even you're not even looking as to why it happened you're not even looking as to why happened and that's cool and that's cool you know we can definitely play uh you know obtuse on the whole issue yeah black people were burning it down why racism racism was a big issue and we can pretend that it's not a big issue but hey hey if if you don't want to then that's just called being obtuse and that's why I asked you and that's why I asked you why did you have such a big problem we talking about racism you want to claim that it's not there and you can say all you want but that still doesn't prove that still that still that still does not if you want to talk about racism that be proven let me let me give you some examples of racism that could be proven how about affirmative action at this college that discriminates against Asian students and white students how about affirmative action hiring practices in the federal government we are such a decent non-racist country the best example that he has is to show that he was mistreated and if he acted like this at the disantis event I can see why he was kicked out of the disantis event uh what do you think about separation of chur State um doesn't exist it shouldn't exist shouldn't exist yeah so you should have church in the state well first where in the constitution does it say that we can't First Amendment where uh it's about the religion right so there's no sttion ofion there's no sttion doesn't say that yes it does it says Congress shall make no law a lishing religion or prohibiting the exercise thereof where does it say church and state religion well hold on it says that Congress shall make no official religion or prohibiting the exercise thereof where does it say that the church can't get involved in the state it could be involved but it can't be the religion established hold on we're talking about two different things then right yeah no see like because what you're saying is that oh you can be a Christian and be in the government and that's true that's how it works right now you could be Christian being in the government right but you cannot establish Christianity as the basis of that's not what I'm arguing I'm arguing that Christians should be in the government the church should be actively involved where do we get that phrase separation of church and state from the First Amendment no we don't no it's Thomas Jefferson writing to the Danbury Baptist convention in Massachusetts assuring them that the church would not come after the state so let me ask you a question let's pretend that church and state is the law of the land right that the Warren court and the burger Court argued in the 1950s and 1960s then why on Earth did we put up with the government going around and shutting down churches during the pandemic I thought we need separation a church and state why is it that the government can go and shut down churches okay so aren't they supposed to be separate actually played for a church I play drum set right so I would go to church and uh they're not churches because of you know Co they're saying that oh it's unsafe to be in in person but they shouldn't have the right to do it because I thought they're supposed to be separate right I mean for general safety I mean if you want people like dying then oh so you could shut them down for safety so it's not separate it's like we can come in for whatever reason we deem necessary to restrict your religion not restricting you can practice from on camera We we played like through live streaming like online yeah so watching church on a live stream is like watching a fireplace on TV you could see everything with no warmth okay but if God is real all the time and you can't go to church because of a disease going around what does it say in the Bible about do not forsake the Gathering of Believers where two or more are gathered in my name okay so what does it say about conception what it begin huh conception or when it's uh sorry Life begin at conception of course yeah I thought it said at first breath no it actually doesn't say that so what's the verse well hold on first of all it says I knew you before you were in the womb yeah and what you are doing is paraphrasing what you consider to be exilo out of nothing made in the image of God the Breath of God was actually where life begins so the question would be was John the Baptist a baby when he left when he leftt in Elizabeth's womb was he are you a Christian me yeah am I you play drums at a church so I hope you're a Christian you um but you're you're missing the point that's what it sounds like no no I'm actually not missing the point I ask you the the verse that says that it begins at conception right so I knew you before you were in the womb is one of many verses of which it reinforces that you should protect life in the womb but but you're what you're thinking is interpreting right so I want you to tell me where it says life begins at how are you reading there's no book there's no book uh it's I've memorized scripture you should try it so you so you're reading it in your brain right now well no in Jeremiah it says very clearly I knew you before you were in the womb yeah so when it says in the Bible that con begins at first breath no it doesn't say that it doesn't you're what does it say you're misquoting it very clearly Psalm 1391 13-16 for you formed my inward Parts it says you wo me in my mother's womb it says I will give thanks to you for I'm fearfully and wonderfully made wonderful are your works and my soul knows it very well fearfully wonderfully made and my inward works that sounds like a baby in the womb doesn't it yeah well a fetus in the womb a fetus in the womb yeah what species is that fetus a fetus species what species is that fetus human so it would be a human life it would be eventually oh but when does it become a human life then when it's born when it breathes oh really so that a 26 we old preey baby that is saved because of a cesarian section isn't a baby until it comes out of the womb I mean if it's born it's born so you believe that we should be able to terminate a pregnancy up until the moment of birth did I say that I'm asking no okay so then what restriction on abortion would you give well if the woman who was giving birth is going to die which never happens which NE never happens that's right so ology that women will die if they have a baby that's right you could talk to entire communities of obes you know why because if cesarian option is entertained then you could save both the mother and the baby instead the abortion industry lies to the mother and they say that you must terminate the baby to save the mother's life so you could talk to hundreds of Christian obes and non-Christian obes and they will tell you that is a mythology of the abortion industry you know that's that's that's funny uh no it's actually not funny way no no no I'm saying you the way you must represent facts like willingly and knowingly I'm sorry the way you like you knowingly like Serv in facts you say oh okay abortion oh it's it's terrible because oh you can't possibly say the baby and you can't possibly say the mother 10 time it happens the 10-year-old in Ohio right yes a cerian section could have saved the baby's life and the mother's life do you know what a cesarian section is do you yes my wife had one oh okay I'm saying when the baby right so do you know what to section is or no I honestly don't know yeah so I I would here's a little word to the wise let's quit while you're ahead a cesarian section is a medical intervention that saves tens of thousands of lives every single year of a small slit done at the B at the top of a woman's pelvis yeah cesarian section that's a C-section abbreviated all right so maybe you that's that's where we get the term C-section from so guess what if every woman that's lied to by Planned Parenthood was given a C-section instead of an abortion then all of a sudden abortion would not be necessary to save their life every single one of them if you talk to hundreds of obes across the country they will say medical necessary abortion is a lie years right and you're pregnant right you're 10 years old you're pregnant okay so you really can't give birth through your your womb you can't get bir that you do a C-section how you cut them open and you lift the baby up and everyone lives how does the baby survive hopefully through a work of God and also medical Tech ology that is the most common surgery in America so I'll kind of close with this and then we'll get to the next question because we're running low on time when does Life begin at first breath at first breath that moral standard of first breath would therefore believe that you could have abortion up until the life up until the moment of birth life begins at conception I'm going to say this as nicely as I possibly can you're a drummer at a church you should probably reconsider that because you are advocating for the most horrific and brutal eugenic non-Christian abortion policies that I could possibly imagine I hope you prayerfully reconsider and repent thank you for being here tonight thank you for being here tonight thank you hello hi Mr Kirk um I am welcoming booze as saying I am a Marxist I'm very left leaning but I'm here to find some common ground with you um your critiques of the monopolistic Tendencies of multinational corporations align very closely with my beliefs as viewing the world through a class lens as being the major AIS of inequality in this country yep my question is as a member a leader of a conservative organization that really condemns large government how do you address this ever Growing Power and these monopolistic Tendencies without using the federal government and big government I just would love to know question um you have read your marks good for you cuz some people say they're marxists and uh they haven't so look I think the marxists are wrong on a lot we could talk about that in a second but the marxists their fascination with class is not wrong and there is a place where class Warfare is legitimate and ugly and cruel and that powerful people are trying to stamp stomp on people that don't have as much as they have do I think it's as plain and simple as marks and Engles put out no obviously that's not my position but I do think that a a bipartisan um diagnosis of kind of class ISS is something that's very interesting I'd be curious to get your thoughts of a Marx as a Marxist of why we talk about race all the time because that will tell me what kind of marxist you are but not right now so to answer your question the answer the answer the answer needs to be to try to pursue market-based Solutions not be afraid to use the government if to break up big monopolies like Google not be afraid to use Anti-Trust Authority however understand that sometimes more regulation can actually be a boon and a gift to those Mega corporations for example when Facebook goes and they says hey we want more regulation for data privacy no they don't they want regulation that only they can afford so the next social media company like Rumble is not able to pay the same that they're able to pay for that sort of data hosting lawyer fees and all that sort of stuff so look I think we can both agree though crony capitalism or cronyism is awful and wrong and that entrepreneurial bottomup Focus Solutions is a beautiful thing where we will disagree though is that if you are a Marxist and you seem too sweet to be a Marxist so I'll I'll put that aside but is um Do You Believe by definition that the entrepreneurial activity will result in exploitation and will result in the concentration of one person benefiting from the other this is where I disagree I think a portion of American economic activity yes is big companies exploiting or lying to people but the vast majority of economic activity happening in America is beautiful it's voluntary exchange of both parties benefiting it's the local small business serving a meal to somebody in Santa Barbara it's a local hotel that is able to have somebody with a great experience it's somebody that starts a taxi cab company to be able to provide for their families so I think that we bash markets be way too over generally and I would love your thoughts on that do you agree that most economic activity in America is probably done voluntarily and is actually beneficial not anymore I think because so much industry has gone overseas with certain trade agreements usually like very large corporations that dominate employment in America so I don't think small businesses are doing very well especially after the pandemic no that's true I don't think they're doing well but I think still the the the volume of of economic activity is largely not rooted in exploitation right now in America what do you think about that I agree to disagree okay got it so think about that because I do think that exploitation happens but largely I think that there still is this amazing Foundation of goodness in our markets of most people that are not trying to game somebody but instead offer a service and most people that are willing to trade their value their time for that other service and I don't want to lose that and the marxists in its pure most pure sense at the eradication of private property we would lose that so let me just ask can we agree on one thing as we close you know this question out break up Google yes definitely all right we got an agreement thanks sir [Applause] being
