Charlie Kirk Defends Strong Men, Traditional Values, and Free Speech at Oxford Union Debate

Strong men built the West and won the wars and built the building that we're in right now. And without strong men, then you all of a sudden see civilization unfold upon itself. And we're seeing that happen in real time. Charlie Kirk is the founder and president of Turning Point USA, a prominent conservative youth organization with a presence of over 2,000 high school and college campuses across the United States. He served as the chairman of students for Trump which focused on mobilizing young voters during the 2020 presidential election. Kirk is the host of the podcast the Charlie Kirk show and maintains a social media presence following with high levels of engagement across all platforms. So please welcome me introducing Charlie Kirk. [Applause] Welcome. Thank you. Uh honor to be here. Thank you so much. Um, so I'm going to go straight into it. Um, so some of my first questions are regarding immigration. Um, so you've argued the 14th amendment polic um, 14th amendment has been misapplied to undocumented immigrants. And if so, you oppose birthright citizenship and if you do oppose birthright citizenship, what alternative system would you propose for determining for determining who is automatically a citizen citizen? and how would you address the risk of creating a legally precarious or stateless class of US-born children? Okay, it's a good question and first of all, thank you for having me and great to be here everybody. So, if you don't what I I was amazed um I was uh at the other place yesterday. So, we hope that uh you guys are going to be even better, right? We'll see what happens. Um the I was amazed by how much you guys care about American politics and you know about our system of government. So, if you don't know, I'm just going to kind of just give you a quick overview. So, we have the 14th Amendment. It was one of the post civil war amendments. Uh it's been used to applied for a lot of different things. Um one of the ways that it's been debated is this idea of birthright citizenship. So birthright citizenship is that currently in America you could fly from Beijing, China, 9 months pregnant, land in San Francisco, go to the hospital and your baby is a full US passport uh passport holder, full US citizen. No reservations, no, you know, asterric, nothing at all whatsoever. So that is what's called birthright citizenship. Uh most of the rest of the world doesn't have it. I don't even think you guys have it here in Britain where you could just come into the country and have a baby and you get a passport and you become a full citizen. Um, so the question is, does the 14th amendment apply to the children of non-citizens? Well, the Supreme Court ruled in the late 1890s in what's called the Wong case that it does apply to the children of permanent residents. uh in well since 1890 I think it was 1898 or something similar to that it has not yet been decided or adjudicated whether or not illegal immigrants or non-American non-permanent resident non US passport non green card holders and their children can get birthright citizenship. I think that we should join the rest of the world including your country uh and not give just full US citizenship for people that come on birth tourism to the United States. Thank you. Um, so then what is the alternative system you propose? Because I know the UK has a similar system, but I think Ireland still has kind of like the birthright citizen state um and stuff like that. So what would be your alternative? Well, to the birthright citizenship question, just get rid of it just and replace there should be no replacement. Meaning that if you want to come to the United States of America, apply like everybody else and get in line and you don't get to show up pregnant and have a child and that child becomes a full US citizen. So in terms of situations where like the parent has been an undocumented immigrant for a couple of years or decades at this point and they're having children, where does that leave the children? Do we then create like a a state of like basically people who don't have kind of like do documentation? Yeah. Yeah, that's correct. They do they do not become US citizens. So our belief is that we should deport everyone who is in our country illegally back to their country of origin. Something that finally your Labor prime minister is waking up and saying he wants to do. I hope he actually does it. But it's quite a concept that you're not allowed to come into a country unless you're invited. And so we in the United States just won a popular vote election, a popular vote majority and electoral vote majority uh under the idea that we want mass deportations. So if you are in our country illegally, the United States, it is our plan to return you back to your country of origin as a full family unit. Okay. Thank you. Um, and then talking about kind of the idea of mass deportation and basically Trump put winning an election and that we've seen recently that he's been expediting the refugee applications of white South Africans claiming they are victims of racial discrimination. Um, considering what you've just said about kind of mass deportation being the few. Um, what do you think justifies the embrace of white South African immigrants? Um, yeah, white South African immigrants and their temporary legal protections that Trump is granting them. Well, for one, the the one of the leading political parties in South Africa is saying that we should kill the boar over and over again in a endorsed chant from the top leaders in a political rally saying that we should go kill the white South African farmer. You can look at videos of crosses that will fill roads for miles of white South African farmers that have been brutally murdered in their home basically because of what is called land reparations at worst. So this is a at best and then there's another word that we could use for it which we'll see if it actually qualifies for that as time goes on. But yes, I mean this is a group where a government has decided that we want we are endorsing the worst and most ven venomous form of racial hatred against white South African land owners and they're fleeing appropriate asylum with the United States. Hilariously, it's only been like 25 people that have received this asylum. And the American leaders have been completely okay with every other type of person on the planet to be granted asylum. Like 15 million people, they want to grant asylum. But when 15 white South Africans want to show up to the United States and have asylum because there's actually an endorsed mantra and chant to kill them, all of a sudden there's a major issue. I I wonder why. Thank you. So then considering that so if it applies to for example Nigerian Christians being killed in Nigeria um and other kind of like world atrocities we're seeing across the world where people are in a vulnerable position you would agree then that they also should have their it can again it's a case by case basis and if if one of the leading political parties in Nigeria whether it be the Muslim or the Christian faction was outwardly saying we must kill the Muslims or we must kill the Christians. We're a very generous country. We're willing to look at all the cases associated. I happen to know the South African one better than the Nigerian one. I mean Nigeria is the most populated country in Africa. So it's not unreasonable that something like this could happen. But the United States of America is a generous country. We've been known when it meets the criteria that we are a place that you can find safe refuge. The problem is our asylum process has become a scam the last 15 years where people from countries just that have high crime rates are able to say that I am fleeing violence to come to the United States of America. Well, guess what? The United States is also very, very violent. You go to Chicago, you go to Philadelphia, it's not exactly a good cause or good claim. And that is in a bad way. That is a way where our compassion as Americans is being taken advantage of for an ulterior political motive. Thank you so much. If your portfolio is over $250,000 and you aren't hedged, you are sitting on a ticking time bomb. Markets at all-time highs, but history shows, you know what comes next? Volatility and increased risk. A 10% allocation into gold and silver can help hedge uncertainty and protect your wealth. Noble Gold Investments makes it easy to hedge your portfolio with institutional-grade gold and silver. Right now, every qualified investment will receive a free 10th ounce gold coin and protect your portfolio today. Visit noble goldvestments.com. Um, moving on slightly to a different topic, um, which is abortion. Currently, there is a woman who has been declared brain dead in Georgia and is being kept on life support because the state's restrictive abortion abortion laws that ban abortion after cardiac activity is detected generally at 6 weeks. So, I want to basically ask you a your thoughts on that and how you think kind of like the pro-life arguments apply. I'm having a hard time hearing. So, you said there's a woman in Georgia that's on life support because she was not able to get an abortion. So, she's being kept on life support because she still has this baby in her womb. Um, and she has what? I'm sorry. She still has this baby. Um, but she's like brain dead. Completely brain dead. She still has a baby. Yes. But she's been kept on life support just because of this baby. Um, and this is just due to the state's restricted restrictive abortion laws that ban abortion after cardiac activity is detected. So I I don't know enough about the case. Why is she on life support? Is it a pregnancy induced ailment or is it a unrelated separately ill? But the idea is she's completely brain dead. So basically the only thing that's keeping her alive is this machine because of the baby due to the restrict restrictive abortion laws. Yes. I mean that baby is going to be able to live. Praise God. And that that that mom will now her parting gift to the world will be another life. I think that's beautiful. Unless there's a an element of the case I'm missing like she has pregnancy induced sepsis or there's something related to the case that I'm not aware because I do believe in the exception for the life of the mother. But I don't that doesn't sound like that's what this case is. So to be clear, like the mother is dead and like she Hold on. How is she dead if she can she's being kept alive? Hold on a second. How could she How is she dead if you congested a baby? She's she's brain dead. But she's not dead. Hold on a second. She's brain dead, but let's let's let's reexamine what being dead means. How can you actually have a baby fully develop within you if you're dead? And that's what's always so interesting. People that are called dead, they could still get pregnant. Women who are dead still menrate. They still when they are stabbed their adrenaline levels go up and I again this goes back to the fundamental question of what is a human being and when does life begin and it would be very interesting shouldn't the question also be I don't know what her wishes are we we do we know her wishes or not or well the thing is again she's brain dead she can't give us her wishes but hold on a second she would have prior to this of the pregnancy said I want to do whatever is possible to save my baby so it's not a dumb question yes but I'm I'm not saying it's a dumb question okay so we don't know so therefore since we don't know her wishes, we should yield on the side of life. And if that baby is able to survive and the mom dies, I mean that's the that is of course the moral thing to do. Surely considering her family is kind of like please have been to basically save her first, which is obviously not possible anymore, but I'm sorry. So the family wants to save the mom and but you said she's brain dead, so there's no way to save her. So she's simply just a vessel for a life. Well, do you think that's okay for a woman to just be vessels for life? No, of course not. In this extreme case though, which is a moral question of if you terminate the mom, the baby dies. If you can keep the mom quote unquote alive long enough, another life enters the world. That is a morally great thing for humanity to be able to say another life comes into the world when someone who is brain dead would otherwise have no contribution to the species. But what if this continues when we see more restrictive abortion laws in different states? Well, we're we're not this case that you're saying actually proves my point that she's doesn't have agency. She doesn't have consciousness. So, we should yield on the side of the protection of the human being in uterero. So, here's my point. The reason why we have this case happening in the first place is because of how restrictive the abortion laws. So, here's my point. Abortion should be banned in the United States of America and we're well on our way to do that. Well, so yes, correct. Completely. Except for the life of the mother. Okay. So in the exception of the life of the mother, you agree that that should be but in this case where we basically have these women being vessels as brain dead individuals and we're continuing to carry these pregnancies to full term. Do you think this is like morally okay in terms of what if the woman says no beforehand? She doesn't want to be carried as I guess the question I would pose to you or anybody else what is the moral difference between the baby and the womb and her one is older are they not both human beings I mean why all of a sudden that we're able to say that she's older and more developed that you can eliminate the smaller being why is that okay under what moral standard it is okay to eliminate being smaller than you or because that you've been developed more in fact we should as humanity say under this very extreme case and thank you for bringing it to my attention I'm actually going to talk about it because it's It's it might be used as like a way to like put us on defense, but in some ways it shows that we value both human beings. That that mom who might not have nothing else to give, again, the last thing that her body can actually do is to have another life, her offspring enter into the world. And of course, I will defend that because every human life is exceptionally and uniquely made. And we believe in universal human equality, the first of which is life. Okay. Thank you. Um So, some other abortion related questions kind of like touching on what you said. Um, you've kind of talked about obviously the safety of the mother being like the only kind of like bar in which you think abortion should correct. Yeah. Um, so what about abortions in cases of sexual assault or rape? Yeah. So, again, let's just say I have two ultrasounds here. One of the ultrasound is a baby that is conceived in rape. The other one is from a loving marriage. Do we know which one is which? So, they're both human beings and they both deserve human rights. Someone in this audience was conceived and raped. Do you know who? Tell me, do they look different? Do they get less rights? Are you not able to have free speech rights cuz you're a rape baby? No. We believe in universal human equality regardless of how horrific or evil the method of conception is. That is what built the West. And I will continue to defend that. So then what happens in cases when the baby from that is a product of rape or sexual assault is mistreated is abused. That's a separate issue. There's plenty of babies that are in loving monogous marriages that are mistreated and abused. Separate. There is no correlation. There's no moral justification to say that I think or I even have data that that baby will be mis be abused or mistreated. Therefore, murder is okay. I mean there is correlation. I think it's very clear when they've been perceived in very very horrific situations. The mother specifically as well is obviously in terms of mentally the impact they have on her that still the mother has to raise that baby all the way till 18 years. Still not a justification for murder. And if you think that abortion is just a medical procedure or cosmetic type intervention, no different than getting plastic surgery. Women have regrets after abortion. They have psychological trauma. Again, the question is, do we defend human life universally as a statement? And if the question is, I'm going to just kind of well, I can eliminate the smaller life because I have regret of a sexual encounter I had, then I find great question with that. On the rape thing though, to your point, it is the hardest thing that we have to defend. On its surface, rape is awful and terrible. Rapist should be castrated and put in life for for jail the rest of their life. The the more important fundamental question is under what moral standard it is okay to do something evil after an evil act when a life is eliminated. One of the most powerful things I get to do is go down college campuses and all the time I meet young baby young kids that were babies that were scheduled for abortions that were conceived in rape and they are full citizens of America that are flourishing and doing amazing things. And I believe that we should get back to this idea that all human beings are equal regardless of how you entered the world. Thank you. Um then considering obviously you've talked about how we need more abortion restrictions, but we're also seeing low birth rates in America and also in the West as a whole, how do you think they interacted with each other and do you think they're related? I'm sorry, just to make sure I'm hearing the question. Um and it's not your fault, it's the it's the acoustics. Um the you said uh falling fertility rates and abortion rates. Yeah. basically. So, we actually already have a window into this. In Texas, we have completely abolished uh surgical abortion. You could still do an at home abortion. Um, which is um mythopressinone, I think is what it's called. Uh, and birth rates are up about 200,000 new babies net over the last 18 months in Texas versus the years prior. And so, yeah, I mean, what you in the UK and America, we wouldn't need as many third world immigrants if we didn't kill our babies all the time in the womb. Thank you very much. Um my next question is slightly a larger picture. Um considering not abortion but just the treatment of men and women. So what do you think the role of red pill media is in men in the men's rights movement and what are the implications you think it has for women? Okay. So you're I'm sorry you said that. What is the role of right-wing media in the red pill? Yes. Red pill media. I'm sorry. I'm not I'm not trying to be No, don't worry. I want to make sure I answer the question. What is the role of right-wing media in the red pill media? I'm sorry. Okay. Red pill media. Uh uh what what in the men's rights movement? What what is Red Pill Media? So um I'm trying to think of a more broad definition. Can you give me a name? Think like Joe Rogan. Your Andrew Joe Rogan's awesome. Great. What's wrong with Joe Rogan? I didn't say there's anything wrong. I know. What's Joe Rogan's role? He helps save civilization. He's a bow hunter. He's fun. Okay. My my more general point is very much um content that's being produced right now regarding um men, how they act in terms of very toxic masculinity, how they treat women. Something we've seen at least in the UK was the show Adolescence came out recently. Yeah. Which was a complete fiction by the way. Talking about what was it based on? Talking about the kind of the way media interact it's a mythology no different than Lord of the Rings. Like there's there's no basis for this. I think there's a slight difference. Well, you're right. The difference was that the main character was actually an immigrant, not a white person. That's right. That's the one thing they got wrong. So, is it a complete fiction or is it Yeah, it's a mythology. I mean, if they would have talked about how it was like a third world Arab young kid radicalized by Islam and then started decide to go stab somebody, then they would have gotten more correct in that Netflix special. But yes, the the the point that I think and by the way, this kind of scold not you I'm you've been great, but like that ridiculous the head of the conservative party being scolded. Have you not watched adolescence? What are you talking about? As if it's like some sort of like like you have not read the catechism of like the the core faith. Have you not experienced the full eukarist? It's just like preposterous. And so I mean sorry you're asking a good faith question. Um like what is the role of right-wing media? Of course they're toxic masculinity. There's a war on men in the west. We as men are here to be protectors and defenders and providers. We should treat women with total dignity and respect of which I'm a proponent of men. I know this crazy Christian idea of saving yourself until marriage and not having sex until marriage. I believe abstinence is not talked about enough. In fact, you want to dignify women all of a sudden don't have a bunch of hookup sex on Tinder and every app that you can get your hands on and start acting like men. And so in so far that any media is talking about using women as objects or as ways to try and sleep around a lot, I reject that. At the same time, I am a traditionalist where I believe most, not all, but most women of the west deep down desire getting married and having children and have a husband who loves them. We have a lot of sex in this society and we don't have enough love in this society because love comes from connection. It comes from the soul. It comes from something deeper, not just an [Applause] orgasm. Thank you. Um, thank you so much for your answer. Um, just another follow-up question on that. In terms of Red Bull Media, um, specifically stuff like Andrew Tate's content, which I think is probably on the edge and kind of the fringe of it. What are your thoughts then in terms of when it kind of pushes the limits? Yeah, look, I I don't know Andrew, never met him. I mean, he has a certain following and he has a certain approach. I've seen some of his content, some of it I like, some of it I disagree with. I can only speak for what I believe and I think that's fine. I mean, if there's a video or a statement you want me to respond to, I can do that. Uh, but more broadly, I think that the men of the West have been infantilized for too long. We have the lost boys of Peter Pan that are basically watching porn all day long and doing drugs and they don't have to go on an adventure to mature themselves. They have nothing significant to aim for. And part of that needs to be challenge. Young men need challenge. They need something that elevates them above their primitive state of just indulging the flesh. And that means an entire society that knows that young men need other men to communicate to them in a way that is not that you're the worst, most awful thing ever. Because we see the men of the West checking out. And I would love during our Q&A portion if somebody thinks that's a good thing or a bad thing. And if you think it's a good thing, at least you are morally consistent. If you think that the men of a society checking out is a good thing, well, you are getting your goal because that is what is happening. We have like this generation that has completely disappeared of young men particularly in my my country in the middle parts of America. I don't know if the same trends are here in the UK, but I do know that it is it is intercontinental this trend. We see it across Europe and across the UK of this hyperfixation on feminism and female empowerment while also not acknowledging that strong men built the West and won the wars and built the building that we're in right now. and without strong men then you all of a sudden see civilization unfold upon itself and we're seeing that happen in real time. Thank you so much. Um going to move on slightly in terms of topic area. Um what is your stance on project 2025? Um it's going great. To what extent do you think it's feasible in terms of all the actual clauses within it? And also in all fairness it's a 101 it's a 1,200 page document. I haven't even read it all. But the parts about deconstructing the administrative state, there's an entire chapter of Project 2025 that our former president who wasn't even president. He was brain dead. Um, and you all know it's true and the media covered up for it and they lied about it and they smeared all of us that acknowledged it and knew it. He did not even know the year he got elected. That is a fact. You can go listen to the Robert tapes and the leader of the United States of America did not know the year that he got elected and an aid had to insert be like, "No, sir. You were actually elected in this year, not that year." He didn't know the year that he left office as vice president. He thought that his son died in combat, not of cancer, in an official testimony to the United States government about an a criminal investigation. So we had an administrative state running our government. So to about proud of 2025, Joe Biden and the Democrats and some very weak Republicans told us the border is a pro is a problem that cannot be solved. You just have to get used to the fact that two and a half million people come into your country every single year. There's nothing you can do. in project 2025 2025 and other documents there's like no we can operationalize the border we're gonna you do remain in Mexico all these other details so in April 60,000 people last year came across the southern border illegally 60,000 last April this one six President Donald Trump did not need Congress he didn't need a new act of legislation turns out we just needed a new president who knew what to do and actually cared about sovereignty so I think the project's going great I don't know all the details But I'm thrilled that America has its mojo back. Thank you very much. Um, my next question is something you said regarding Obama. Um, you described him as a failed cultural revolution agent. What did I say? A failed what? Failed cultural revolution agent. Oh, that's right. That's correct. Yeah. Can you please clarify what you mean by the statement and your position on basically DEI more broadly? What was the DEI part? So, can you clarify a what you meant by that statement about Obama and then your position on DEI more broadly? Oh, okay. Got it. So, I'll do the second one second. Okay. So, yeah, Obama's revolution partly in his book Dreams from My Father, which I encourage you to read, was that he thought that he would bring forth a great awakening and a re reconfiguration of America. And he thought that Hillary Clinton was like an automatic to become president. They thought they were going to stack the Supreme Court with three new Supreme Court justices. And his revolution never actually hit its final mark. Instead, President Donald Trump won in 2016. We got three Supreme Court justices. We were displaced from power from four years. And now, President Trump is back on top. And almost every one of the core things that Obama ran on or defended have fallen out of popularity with the American people. And so, you can like Obama. I actually think there's plenty of things you can like about him. He's very talented. He's very charismatic. He's very good in his feet. He respected the White House. He respected the Oval Office. Plenty of stuff. Like I'm not like an automatic hate Obama guy. But you must just be factual. Like his vision, what he wanted to do for America has failed. It's failed in the popular vote majority. It's failed in our public opinion polls. Young people, which used to be Obama's greatest constituency. College campuses were all on fire for Obama. Well, young people actually moved the most towards Donald Trump this last election. And President Donald Trump won the youth vote in Michigan and several other battleground states. As far as DEI, my stance on it, I'm very much against it and it they say it stands for diversity, equity, inclusion, but it really stands for didn't earn it. Can you elaborate more why you think it didn't earn it? Yeah, I mean, so again, so DEI is a is a very innocuous term that could be applied in many ways. So affirmative action is an extension of DEI and they're kind of like cousins to each other. So there's four elements to this. There's critical race theory, which is the legal, it's kind of like the philosophical theory. We could talk about it if you like. There's affirmative action, which is most most definitely in practice, if you will. And then there's uh disperate impact theory, which has been the predominant legal theory in the United States to justify the US Civil Rights Act and it's kind of it's its downstream tributary effects. And then there is diversity, equity, inclusion, which I think the best example of DEI can be how it's kind of taken over the corporate workforce. There's two ways I could look into it. Number one, DEI demands that you must hire these new ridiculous diversity departments for no reason whatsoever that weigh down costs that are basically speech police internally of our major companies that make it a uh less desirable place to work and honestly less productive and less likely for us to be able to compete against the Chinese communists. So, I could talk and I can give you examples on that if you'd like. The the the other part of this though is that you could insert I I don't know how much deep you want me to go into this but fundamentally DEI is about race quotas in America. I don't know if it here is in the UK and so when you have a quota and you want to reach that quota you will then have to relax the standards of excellence. When you build a big organization you say this is what we stand for. Harvard for example used to stand for truth veritas. Every organization must have a telos. It must have something you aim at. And if you aim at anything other than excellence or meritocracy as a company, then you will compromise those things. If all of a sudden you want to be equitable, well maybe that company will not be that good anymore. And we see the slippage of our excellence here in the west where if we get away from excellence and bureaucratic type um undergirling philosophy and towards other other type substructures, I think it's a a remarkably dangerous proposition. Thank you very much. Um again moving slightly um you spoke um briefly about President Trump and kind of the success he's having in the US right now. So what are your thoughts on basically the tariffs issue we've basically been seeing with the US? Uh I'm supportive. Look, when you we're talking about this, I'm sure in the Q&A, always look at the end result with Trump because the process can sometimes drive people mad and a little crazy and the up and down, but like in the first term, everyone was very critical of his Middle East policy. And then we got the Abraham Accords, which was an incredible accomplishment of peace between Israel and the Amiradis and the Saudis. And so there's there's there's a process that you have to allow unfold here. As far as the tariffs, the tariffs brought a lot of countries to the table. You guys got actually a pretty good deal out of this. President Trump was generous enough to actually exempt Rolls-Royce and some of your major manufacturing in the latest trade bilateral trade deal with the United States. And I want to see our two countries grow closer together. And I think the president has the same wish. But as all the tariffs are eventually pointing at what we should and this is the question for Europe and this is the question for the United Kingdom. Will Europe and the United Kingdom decide to embrace the west or will will it look very very far to the east? the the rising power struggle in front of us is all the things we've talked about, but it really is the Chinese Communist Party versus Western values. The Chinese Communist Party is anothetical to even those of you that are liberal in this audience right now is anothetical to what you believe and how you believe it. The CCP is the greatest threat to so many of these different things in our in in on the planet. And as it is this rising power, we have to reckon with this question. Are we okay as America, I don't know if that's the case here in the UK, are we okay with not making any of our own vitamin C, none of our antibiotics, none of our own critical pharmaceuticals? We do not make our own drone materials. In fact, we are supposed to make four submarines a year. We only make two submarines a year because we have to get the parts from China. And so I I think there's a there is a vassal state problem that is presenting itself in the west where we have grown addicted to cheap products. And the Chinese, they do manufacturing very well. And you are underestimating the Chinese if you think it's just that is cheap labor. They're very organized. They're very industrious. They take manufacturing seriously. Being the head of a manufacturing plant in China is like being a mayor of a small town. You have power. You have prestige. You have honor. You can call the local governor at any time. they they prioritized it and they knew that this was a way that they could enter into the global market. So tariffs are in some ways a very um let's say provocative way to bring us to a conclusion that no western leader other than President Trump has had the moral courage to actually bring out into the open which like hey guys this centrally will be defined as to who actually stands up against China and it's better that we do it in 2025 other than 2045 because we might not have the chips to bargain against them. Thank you. Um on that I think China's response to that has been very much you know lax in terms of they don't care and kind of like retaliating with their own tariffs. Do you actually think they can get to a position where Trump and China can kind of like have a level playing field of an agreement? It's a good question. I I don't know. Um I so just for you following it was like 180% tariffs and now it's at 30% tariffs. I can say that tariffs will remain on critical manufacturing for American critical American goods. Now, if it's car seats or if it's toys for girl, you know, like like dolls or whatever, like that's not the critical stuff. Rare earth minerals, very critical. Every single one of the smartphones in your pocket requires a combination of rare earth minerals, most of which are mined and sourced in Chinese Communist Party, China. Not because we don't have them in the West, but because all my friends that I'm sure I'll get a question from, you wonderful environmentalists don't let us actually use our own rare earth minerals, but hey, it's somehow it's a different planet in China. So, it's okay if they pollute, but not if we pollute. But if we import it then you know we feel good about ourselves. And so essentially the phones almost everything we have in the west has some Chinese component to it. So we need to triage this. We need to ask the question can we be self-sufficient if there is a rapid decoupling. And this is something that both our countries need to reckon with that we need to reconcile. And right now the answer is no. And I hope that we can bring back that not just manufacturing base because people think like what are you just going to make you know t-shirts and textiles? Yeah, that's part of it, but it's a lot deeper. There is a there is a advanced manufacturing opening that's going to happen in the west right now around robotics and around drones. There will be a global supply of drones in the hundreds of millions in the coming decade. Drones are actually really, really hard to build when they're sophisticated. It's not as easy as you might think. A lot of them come from China. A lot of them, the parts do. And so, all of a sudden, if we're going to be comfortable with like a country that doesn't share our values, that is at best an adversary at worst than enemy, is going to all of a sudden control the stuff that's going to define the future. Yeah, check me out on that. So, I support President Trump's strategy completely in that regard. Thank you. You've c you've characterized the Democratic Party as antagonistic to American ideals and argue that the Republican party falls short of opposing the agenda. As someone who identifies as a conservative, how do you define the Conservative movement today and how do you think it should evolve to engage with the next generation? Yeah, thank you. It's a great question. Um, how do I define being a conservative? Well, we as conservatives need to not just oppose, we need to stand for stuff. We want to So what we oppose is very obvious. We oppose the woke stuff. We oppose mass migration. We oppose the importation of these insidious uh values into our country and into the west. What do we stand for? I mean we stand for what has worked, what is good, what is true, what is beautiful. We want to have the fertility rates reversed. We want to see church attendance go up. We want to see suicide rates take a 180 degree pivot. In our country at least, we have the young the younger generation is the most suicidal, the most anxious, the most anti-depressant uh addicted generation history. And yet, they're the most wealthy, and the most prosperous. So, for anyone that just thinks that material conditions alone dictate happiness or well-being, the West is a is a flaming indictment of that claim. Mark's got some stuff right. He got some stuff really wrong. We are not just social material be beings. There's something deeper here. And I believe, of course, that is the soul. And we want to try to have people look up. We want to have the people look back that there's something beautiful that's been passed down. That there is a moral code that we have forgotten. That there is a root to our existence that we have cut off. And we as the west are reckoning with what Nze unfortunately predicted way way back when. And when he said God was dead, he was lamenting the death of God. But he also said the West is not going to know what to do with itself. And he basically predicted the Third Reich. like you're going to get all these counterfeit insane movements of nationalism and self-hatred and nihilism and I believe the answer is not for us to create like a new moral code which we failed to do by the way we have failed to do that why don't we just work why don't we just reinstitute and go back to what gave us the civilization in the first place what is divine what is everlasting and the as Tom Holland I know he went to Cambridge but you got to indulge me for a second as Tom Holland would say in his book dominion that whether you realize it or not whether you're secular, atheist, Buddhist, Hindu or Christian. If you live in the west, you are inheritor of a Christian tradition. The way we look at things, honor your neighbor, help the poor, charity, natural rights. These are somewhat weird ideas when you actually think about it. And instead of us trying to make a manufactured counterfeit new morality, we should go back to our Christian roots. Thank you. Um, a more personal question on the idea of like Christian youth and you being a very devout Christian. Um I remember speaking to your assistant during the vacation and he's saying you don't respond on a Sunday because you participate in Saturday actually. Yes. Sorry. That's right. Yeah. That's that's very astute. Yeah. So kind of like more why do you kind of like is that something you've taken from the Jewish tradition? Now I really like you. Uh now you asked the best question anyone's ever I could talk about the Sabbath all day long. Um I don't know if anyone is interested in this so you could roll your eyes but I I am I'm a Christian. So whether or not we're bound to the Jewish Sabbath is hotly debated. There's great arguments for great arguments against I'm actually writing a book right now on why I honor the Sabbath. It's very simple. It's called Stop in the Name of God. Why honoring the Sabbath will change the world basically. And it is an argument that in this hypermaterialistic very fast digitally frenzied world that there is this there is this gift that I believe the Lord gave the Hebrews that we have decided to just gloss over. And it's very simple. It's that for one day you will stop that it will be holy. That it will be different. For those of you that are agnostic or not Christian, I still encourage you to do this. People that honor the Sabbath live longer. We know this with the Seventh Day Adventists, they actually are happier. They have better health outcomes. Everything about disconnecting from modernity is good for you. It is inarguable. This is this is a material fact. But why is it that we have forgotten it? Well, for me personally, I work like crazy for 6 days. On Friday night, even Sunday morning, I turn my phone off and I try to stop. I try to make it distinct. I try to make it different. It's where I do my best thinking. It's where I do my best time with my family. Um, and again, this kind of goes back to, okay, we're trying to create all this new stuff. Like, wow, we're gonna have this new technological invention in innovation. We're gonna have this vaccine, and you we're going to be able to solve this with quantum mechanics and quantum computing. And I'm kind of like, honestly, something was told to us on Sinai that we shouldn't forget that like you shouldn't work for seven days. In the retelling of the ten commandments in the book of Deuteronomy, the only difference of the retelling of the ten commandments is when Moses says, "Hey, you shouldn't work seven days because you're no longer a slave." What Moses is saying is like only slaves work for seven days actually. And we in the West have kind of been slaves to our work. And I say this as a free market capitalist. That's not good. It's making us depressed. It's making us anxious. And I all of you have the agency to disconnect from that to make a choice to no longer have to be subservient to the ever more more more next text, next alert, next email, you know, next WhatsApp message. And it kind of goes back to a theme I've been saying that it has worked. It's also a phenomenal uh civilizational preserving tool. It's worked for the Jews. They've been kicked out of a lot of countries and a lot of people have hated the Jews, including right now. and they're thriving and they're growing and they continue. I think God has given us a preservative for a civilization and I believe it is the Sabbath. Thank you very much. Um just picking up on a comment you just made just then about um a lot of people hating the Jews right now. Um would you elaborate more specifically on what you're talking about? Yeah. And not everyone who is against Israel hates the Jews, but everyone who hates the Jews is against Israel. So, it's an important connection. Look, I mean, it's coming from both sides. We all see what's happening on social media. There is this kind of temptation to blame the Jews for all of your problems. I think it's sloppy and it's wrong. No group is perfect. No group is going to act in a in a, you know, in a directionally consistent way. But look, I I think that it's at least in my country, I don't know that you guys are seeing a similar rise in the United Kingdom. But I think that there is this temptation to say that all the world's suffering is because of a small group of people, many of whom I have not met. And I I reject that wholeheartedly. But would you say the criticisms is of the Jews or of the state of Israel, which I think Oh, no. Those are two different things. So there are three issues here and that's a very good question. And we must have the maturity to differentiate them. And in the Q&A, we could talk Israel, Gaza, whatever you want, obviously. But there is a difference between Jews, Israel, and the Israeli government. And I acknowledge those differences. So Jews are, you know, is a very complicated thing because it's a people, but it's also a religion and it's an ancestry, but it's a culture. Almost nothing like it in the world, right? Where you're kind of born into it and you can be like an atheistic Jew, but there's also like a religious text. And then there is Israel, which I believe is fundamental to Judaism. God toward Israel is the informal like trinity of Judaism. And then the Israeli government, you can support Jewish life and support Jews and support Israel, but not support this current Israeli government. It's a perfectly mature view to have. It's fine. Like I I have disagreements with Netanyahu. I have agreements. It's I think it's okay. But I actually think we could deescalate a lot of the fingerpointing around this issue if we look at it through that lens that anyone who says like, "Oh, we're going to blame the Jews." Well, then that that's the first like no one here rationally I think would if you believe that then we could talk about it. But then if you're like well I don't think Israel should exist or I don't like Israel. Okay, that's another step. But that's a more reasonable argument one I wouldn't share. But then if you're criticizing Israeli government so where I think a problem emerges is where my side where I am pro-Israel we conflate those three things and we immediately say that you're against Netanyahu, therefore you're against the Jews. I'm sorry. I I think that's immature. It's sloppy and it actually creates more uh resentment uh where it otherwise would not exist. Thank you. Um on the state of Israel in terms of its existence. Oh, here we go. Great. I was going to leave it to the Q&A but we started um uh just a question and your belief in the state of is Israel existing in its current form. Is it biblical or is it just a political belief? Okay. So you asked is it biblical or what? So, is your belief on this current state of Israel, where it is and how it's formed, is that is that belief biblical? So, I'm not Got it. I'm not a theologian. Uh, but I am uh definitely more, let's say, aligned with a view of Ezekiel 36 that there is a reconstitution of the state of Israel and that was prophesized. I will bring you from across the lands and graft you together. More I don't want to get into that. Again, if you guys want to talk about end times theology, I'm honestly going to be like, let's get a more important question cuz I don't know it that well. I'm not that interested in it. It's called esquetology. There's like there's pre-tribulation Christians and then there's post-tribulation Christians. I'm pantrib. It's all going to pan out in the end. Okay. Uh Jesus will return. I'm going to be on the welcoming committee, not the planning committee. Um and so like I'm not I'm not overly interested in that. Um, instead I think what is lost and I think I would like at least the anti-Israel advocates I don't want to say anti-Israel the critics of Israel that will come up and ask questions to acknowledge this that it is miraculous that Israel in this current form exists. I mean it's really unbelievable what Bengurian and the Zionists were able to pull off um from just a Zionist perspective. It is a miracle considering they were attacked from every direction from its charter completely under attack and totally brutalized. Number two, it's interesting because in the Bowfor declaration, as you will know, it actually was the smallest suggested size for Israel as of all the four plans. All that to say, what do I believe about the current composition of the state of Israel? Well, my historical analysis of whether you know it should be formed or not, I actually think it should be is not that relevant. The more important moral question is what do you think about what is happening right now? Uh, do you think that Israel has I I I don't like the qu I think it's a little bit of a copout like do you think Israel has a right to exist. I think more importantly, do you believe that a country has a right to be able to defend itself into existence? That's a more important question that if a country can prove to itself that to you that it can exist, should it then be given recognition? So, I don't know if that answers your question. It's kind of just a mind dump on the topic. I seek to actually find reconciliation on this. I think there is a downplaying what happens on October 7th to a great detriment. And I think that at times those of us that are per Israel need to acknowledge war is awful. War is brutal. I'm a Christian. I hate when I see these videos of these kids being killed. I mean it's terrible. I want to see this come to an end. I mean like who can possibly see that and support that. And anyone who's like for example like Nikki Haley signing bombs that are going to be dropped in Gau like that's repulsive. I'm sorry. That's disgusting. Okay. Like that's going to be used against people that shouldn't like that are just complete casualties in the war. And so yeah, I I I I hope that offers some clarity on that. No, thank you. Um, but then in terms of the question of being pro-Israel and the right of Israel to exist when Palestine very much exists and they're fighting for their own self-determination, how do you reconcile both? So, I would push back a little bit. I think what some well-meaning Arabs are doing in the West Bank is is righteous. What Hamas did on October 7th was not a fight for self-determination. I I I would find great exception to that claim. Uh going 1300 people going in on a holy day on samat shamatra 50 days after the six- day war um on Shabbat to go to kabutzes in a music festival to kill 1300 people and take 200 hostages all while filming it on GoPro cameras and then some of which not all calling back to their relatives on WhatsApp saying I just killed 10 Jews. Can you believe it? I just killed 10 Jews. I'm sorry. That's not a fight for self-determination. that's something horrific and brutal and evil that every human being with a conscious should say that's wrong and we don't support that and so again as far as this idea of self-determination there are important and these are not trapped questions the settlements make it very difficult in the West Bank what is a Palestinian what are the borders who's in charge these are again and it also kind of goes back to this because I also have to throw it back some people believe that Palestine or whatever the state will be called let's just call it PA is from the river to the sea okay so then you don't believe in a Jewish state. I come I come from the premise that I think a Jewish state should exist. If you want a Palestinian state, tell me where, tell me who, tell me how, and I will be open-minded to hear that contention. But if it's nothing more than the eradication of jewelry between, you know, Jerusalem, the Tel Aviv, and Hifa, I'm sorry. That's where now we're blurring on the going backwards, not forwards, from, okay, we're going from Israeli government to Israel to some problem with the Jews. Does that make sense? That kind of gre that gradation of regression, I think, is very harmful to the dialogue. Thank you. Um, moving on slightly topic-wise, um, you've argued that systematic racism does not exist within US policing. However, many black and white Americans say black people are treated less fairly by the police and by the criminal justice system at large. Um, what evidence do you rely to support your view about systematic racism not existing in US policing? Yeah. So, um, I think you're saying, uh, it's not your fault. Systemic racism, right? Yeah, that's you're great. So, um, I mean, show me the data. A police officer is actually 18 and a half times more likely to be shot by a black person than vice versa. There's only about 12 unarmed black people in America that are shot every single year that are unarmed. It's true. According to the Washington Post data, it's only 10 to 15 people. And respectfully, you're you said black people say. I don't care what people say. Show me the evidence. Like people make stuff up all the time. And there's a self-confirming bias loop. Is there evidence of this? The evidence is very clear. Black Americans make up 13% of the US population. They make up between anywhere between 55 to 60% of the murders, the thefts, and the carjackings. There is a disproportionate crime problem in America. And I don't like it. It's just what the data is. And again, I would prefer not to talk about race all the time, but the data is the data. When you commit more crimes, you have more interactions with the police. And therefore, when you have more interactions with police, some of them might go sour. Thank you. Um, so given that a lot of your data that you use about kind of like black people um, arrests and convictions um, come specifically from kind of the arrests and convictions and not from the crime commission, how do you account for the fact that many crimes go unreported and unsolved, but also that black Americans are statistically more likely to be wrongfully convicted? Okay. Yes. So the the to the wrongfully convicted I it it might be right, it might not be right. It's more about the quality of your lawyer and the income level. And yes, black Americans are per capita poorer than white Americans. But I I'll say something provocative. If we actually solved all the murders in Chicago, the black portion of murders would go up, not down. You know, only 50% of murders in Chicago get solved. And they're most all in black, densely neighborhood gang violence. So those don't even get reported in the crime statistics. So if we if we solved every murder in Chicago, it would go up from 60% of the murders are black to like 75% of the murders are black. And so we actually have a major under unsolving problem in America of black violence. Most of it is black-on-black violence that shouldn't care. Every human being matters. Like I don't actually like that talking point um very much. What was the other Did I answer that question or Okay. Um and then my last question on the topic is then looking at systematic bias and over policing in poorer areas um which have unequal access to justice as you've discussed with things like being able to pay for a better lawyer and how they all contribute to the outcomes. Would you say that actually it's a cultural kind of like impact in terms of poor neighborhoods creating crime? No, I have a totally different view. I think we need more police, not less police in these neighborhoods. In fact, in New York, when we started to enforce more heavy policing in black only neighborhoods, murder rates went down dramatically. Theft went down dramatically. And so, the question is actually not too much police. It's lack of policing. In America, we have two measurable correlative effects. It's called the Ferguson effect and the Floyd effect. These are two major race hysteras that occurred in our country. And that subsequent after we saw the police retreat because they say we're not welcome here. we're going to be called things not. We're not that's not true, you know. And we saw crime rates skyrocket. In fact, the murder rate in America post Floyd went to record levels we hadn't seen since the 1990s. Uh which thankfully we brought down over the last 20 to 30 years. I I don't know how you guys view police here in the in the UK. Police are constantly under attack in America. They're very much maligned. Uh they're very much criticized and scrutinized. Generally, I think police are trying to do the right thing. Uh they are there to to help you. They're there to support you. Um, and when there is violence or crime, you want to have a police officer around. And there is a direct correlation in the states. The amount of police officers in a densely populated area equals to the level of violent crime. More police officers equals less violent crime. Thank you. Um, and then my last question before I throw it to the audience is, Turning Point USA is known for advocating for free speech on college campuses. What do you see as the biggest threat to free expression in higher education today? the left. Would you like to elaborate? Well, you've been great, I have to say. Uh much better than Cambridge. She's She's been terrific. Um Cambridge one. She read my Wikipedia. She was like, "Well, and you know in this part of the Wikipedia, what are you doing? You go to Cambridge." Um well, that explains it, right? That explains it. My challenge, and you guys have been great. I have to give you all credit. I've said some things that you would think would be provocative in the states. What I've said is actually now mainline conservatism because we've moved that Overton window rather dramatically. Is as a my wish for the left is that you will become liberal again and no longer leftist. Free speech is a liberal value. It is not a left-wing value. It is wrong. And I'm sure we'll talk about this in the Q&A, but as of today, Lucy Connelly is going to jail for two and a half years in this country for a social media post that she apologized and deleted about a migrant hotel. That is not a free speech value at all. You should be allowed to say outrageous things. You should be allowed to say contrarian things. Free speech is a birthright that you gave us and you guys decided not to codify it and now it's poof, it's basically gone. And I think there's something really troubling about that because I want you to imagine one day that reform might take over this government. You guys can laugh, but they're winning elections in downtown London. Faraj's ascendant. There is a silent majority in this country. I see this. Oh, I'm going to really scare you. I see the same themes that led to Trump's rise in this country. I see it with the working class in the streets of London. I see the muscular class. I see people coming up to me. It's the same vibe. You guys are about to see a political revolution if the stars align that could mirror what happened in America. So when that happens, do you want Nigel Farage, prime minister, to be able to lock you up if you criticize his government? If your answer is no, then you have a moral obligation to make sure that your prime minister and the MPs advocate for a valueneutral free speech policy. So regardless of who is in power in this country, you guys can challenge and you guys can speak openly. That is the bedrock of a liberal [Applause] democracy. Um, and then my last question before I throw it to the audience is Turning Point USA is known for advocating for free speech on college campuses. What do you see as the biggest threat to free expression in higher education today? The left. Would you like to elaborate? Well, you've been great. I have to say, uh, much better than Cambridge. She's she's been terrific. Um, the Cambridge one, she read my Wikipedia. She was like, well, in, you know, in this part of the Wikipedia, like, what are you doing? You go to Cambridge. Um, well, that explains it, right? That explains it. my challenge. And you guys have been great. I have to give you all credit. I've said some things that you would think would be provocative in the states. What I've said is actually now mainline conservatism because we've moved that Overton window rather dramatically is as a my wish for the left is that you will become liberal again and no longer leftist. Free speech is a liberal value. It is not a left-wing value. It is wrong. And I'm sure we'll talk about this in the Q&A, but as of today, Lucy Connelly is going to jail for two and a half years in this country for a social media post that she apologized and deleted about a migrant hotel. That is not a free speech value at all. You should be allowed to say outrageous things. You should be allowed to say contrarian things. Free speech is a birthright that you gave us and you guys decided not to codify it and now it's poof. It's basically gone. And I think there's something really troubling about that because I want you to imagine one day that reform might take over this government. You guys can laugh, but they're winning elections in downtown London. Farage is ascendant. There is a silent majority in this country. I see this. Oh, I'm going to really scare you. I see the same themes that led to Trump's rise in this country. I see it with the working class in the streets of London. I see the muscular class. I see people coming up to me. It's the same vibe. You guys are about to see a political revolution if the stars align that could mirror what happened in America. So when that happens, do you want Nigel Farage, prime minister, to be able to lock you up if you criticize his government? If your answer is no, then you have a moral obligation to make sure that your prime minister and the MPs advocate for a valueneutral free speech policy. So regardless of who is in power in this country, you guys can challenge and you guys can speak openly. That is the bedrock of a liberal democracy. Thank you so much. Um and I'm going to shoot to Q&A. So you would you like the show trial will begin? Yes. I think one of the best ways to bolster an argument, to construct an argument, is to um foresee potential counterarguments and to address them. And because you've been doing this for quite some time and you're wellversed in what you believe um in your ideologies and your beliefs, if you were in my position, what would you ask yourself that would be most effective in challenging those core tenants? Thank you for that question. I didn't expect that. So respectful and like thoughtful. I don't know if you're a left liberal or not. I don't know. But cuz it's it's implic implied in your question that you are. Is that correct or not? Cuz you said what would you believe as your toward cortenants? I don't know. But anyway, do you want to I take it as a compliment. Okay. Okay. That's fine. Um always come into every conversation believing that you might be wrong and that you might learn something. And you guys go here to a ridiculously old institution that has some of the greatest thinkers that I admire. Tolken, Lewis, I mean the list goes on. And I don't again I don't know the core cannon of what you are studying but I can definitely tell you in America there is a deemphasis of the thinkers and of the writers that were once um let's just say embedded within the core curriculum of a place like this. And I would encourage all of you that are intellectually honest, that are on the left, that are liberals, to know what conservatives believe better than conservatives. Read our literature. Read CS Lewis Mir Christianity. Go read Edmund Burke. Go read Russell Kirk, of which I share a name, no relation. Go read Milton Friedman. Understand it. Spend time with it. Treat it with respect. Don't just do it as a passer by because the very few and there is a couple right-wing students in this room. They've done that to all the leftwing ideas. No, it's fine. I'm calling them out because many they've done that with the leftwing ideas. They've had to. You cannot proceed in many universities without having to reckon and reconcile with that. So, I hope that answers your question. Thank you. I just want to quickly follow on from that. Um, I was I did my undergrad in the US and so what school? Michigan State. Oh, go Spartans. Yeah. Um, and uh, so I've, you know, here and there I've been labeled leftist, rightest. So, I've heard it all. I hate labels, honestly. It's ridiculous. So, you seem very sweet. So, yeah. Thank you. Um, and I wanted to know uh if you believe that I I know your views on college education specifically in the US and that you believe that it does not deliver what it should. Um, do you think that whether right or wrong that the because you don't have that degree, your influence within society might be restricted compared to, for example, Jordan Peterson. Yes, I'm sorry to interrupt you. Keep going. That's Yeah, you're exactly right. This is a barrier that I have to overcome. Uh, I did not go to university or college. I just went straight into doing stuff. And the a criticism I get is, well, you didn't go to college, therefore you're not capable of dialoguing. That is inherently an argument from authority. But yes, that is a good argument if you want to be taken seriously because it's of course a barrier because pe I it actually only motivates me more to learn more and to dive deeper and to become better understanding of these ideas. Um but yes there is a at least in the states of which you studied your undergrad there is an emphasis on the credential. However, that also plays into my core argument as the indictment of the current state of the academy. If it is a credential, then it's a very expensive, time-intensive credential just to be able to have people take you more seriously. And that is kind of like the downfall of what do you do instead of like where did you go and I don't like that. Right. Thank you very much. [Applause] I wanted to ask you about something you've probably never talked about. Never. Yeah. Abortion. Oh, yeah. Uh now if you make an argument I never heard I will give you great credit. Uh so uh yeah I wanted to basically try to determine whether you uh as you I believe suggest believe that aborti