Charlie Kirk Debates SimpleBlackTheory on DEI Versus Merit in Hiring Practices and the Workplace

[00:00] Uh, Mr. Simple, you've said some very

[00:01] nasty things about me online, so the

[00:04] floor is yours. Thank you. Thank you.

[00:05] Uh, so, uh, simple question, Simple

[00:08] Black Theory. Um, what do you think

[00:10] about blind hiring? Are you for blind

[00:13] hiring? No. No. So, why not? Cuz blind

[00:16] hiring, for those who don't know, is

[00:18] based on merit where you don't look. So,

[00:20] what's blind hiring? Blind hiring would

[00:22] be that you do not put the race actually

[00:24] when you submit for you actually you

[00:26] don't even see the person when you

[00:27] interview them for a a job. No, no, no.

[00:28] That's that's one part of blind hiring.

[00:30] There's multiple ways to do blind

[00:31] hiring. But at the end of the day, blind

[00:33] hiring is exactly not knowing the

[00:35] person's race, age, or gender. That's

[00:37] based on merit. Like you said, you want

[00:39] merit. Correct. Well, hold on. Those

[00:41] things can factor into merit as well.

[00:43] For example, if I'm trying to hire for

[00:45] an Amazon warehouse worker and all of a

[00:47] sudden I find out that they're at 69

[00:49] with one year left from retirement and

[00:51] the age is not disclosed, wouldn't I

[00:52] prefer to have a 24 year old man than a

[00:54] 69year-old woman who's overweight?

[00:56] You're moving the goalpost. Let's bring

[00:57] it back here. No, no, the whole point

[00:59] was about blind hiring. No, you just

[01:01] said you said race, sex, and age is not

[01:05] incorporated. Correct. I think you

[01:06] should have a full picture of of a human

[01:08] being is when you hire them. So, you

[01:10] care about diversity. No, actually, I

[01:12] don't. How? Why? Because that's

[01:14] basically merit. You're focusing solely

[01:16] on merit. You said you want me. Just to

[01:18] be clear, I want I I If diversity

[01:20] happens naturally through meritocracy,

[01:22] great. If all of a sudden we have people

[01:24] that Well, no, no, it's not DI's by

[01:26] force.

[01:27] No, no, no. I got I got to interject.

[01:29] DEI is that we are going to forcibly

[01:31] make an institution more colorful. We're

[01:33] going to forcibly make an institution

[01:35] more black. Where if all of a sudden if

[01:37] half of Texas A&M was black because it

[01:39] was all on merit, praise God. That's an

[01:41] amazing thing. It doesn't matter. If all

[01:43] of a sudden, for example, if the NBA is

[01:45] 75% black because it's on merit, great.

[01:47] Terrific. If the NFL is half black

[01:49] because on merit, we don't want to force

[01:51] race. We want excellence and meritocracy

[01:53] over race in every possible

[01:55] circumstance.

[01:57] Right. Yeah. My turn. Okay. So, let's

[02:00] get into the NBA for instance, right?

[02:02] Can we both agree at one point black

[02:04] people weren't allowed into the NBA and

[02:06] then they allowed them to be in in NBA?

[02:08] Wouldn't that be considered diversity?

[02:10] Wouldn't that be DEI? No. No. No. It's

[02:12] actually the opposite. You see, you're

[02:13] mistaken, my friend. It's actually we're

[02:15] getting rid of any racial stereotyping.

[02:17] What happened was actually a form No.

[02:20] DEI is racial stereotyping. So what

[02:22] actually was before was a form of white

[02:24] preference DEI which is white supremacy

[02:27] or whatever and then we got rid of it.

[02:28] We said we're not going to discriminate

[02:30] it and the quality of play got better.

[02:32] Do you guys see the difference between

[02:33] the two? You see it's very important.

[02:35] Well no actually I'm talking to both you

[02:37] and the crowd. Right. Mean I'm talking

[02:38] to both. Right. So what ended up h what

[02:40] you want is you actually want to bring

[02:42] back a form of how Major League Baseball

[02:45] and the NBA used to work before we

[02:47] desegregated. So, we can agree that

[02:50] executive order 11246 is what basically

[02:52] brought in DEI. Correct. I I'm not I

[02:55] think that might be it. Is that the

[02:56] affirmative action one? I don't know.

[02:58] No, it's not the firm. It's for DI. So,

[03:00] within that executive order, where does

[03:01] it say that they're solely focused on

[03:05] making people get into jobs? For

[03:06] instance, like United Airlines, right?

[03:08] You mentioned that. Well, let's pause

[03:10] that. I'm going to get to here. So, for

[03:12] an example of DEI is basically your

[03:14] daughter, right? She decides to get a

[03:15] job, right? And unfortunately, it's that

[03:17] time of the month. She goes into the

[03:19] bathroom. Calm down. Calm down. Calm

[03:22] down. She goes into the bathroom. Stop.

[03:24] She's going into the bathroom. You're

[03:26] losing the audience, man. I don't care.

[03:27] I'm talking to you. So, she she goes

[03:29] into the bathroom, right? And she gets a

[03:32] She goes into the bathroom and gets a

[03:34] tampon or a pad that's been given from

[03:36] the job. That is DEI. That is literally

[03:39] Yes.

[03:40] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You You don't

[03:42] know. You don't know. You don't know.

[03:43] That's great. So if you don't know de ei

[03:46] interrupt me so he can win. Go ahead.

[03:48] You want to do that right? Or be quiet

[03:49] and we can talk. Thank you. So right.

[03:57] Can I continue? Thank you. So my thing

[03:59] is dead. All right. So yes because in it

[04:03] so in executive order 11246 they say

[04:05] that DEI is focusing on a safer

[04:07] environment and a more equitable

[04:09] environment within the workplace and the

[04:11] hiring process. Let's look at Google.

[04:13] Google actually does DEI. You know how

[04:15] they did a DEI? Give me an example. Do

[04:17] you know Google's DEI? I'm pretty sure

[04:19] you don't. And they shouldn't. Of course

[04:20] not. In fact, what is their DI

[04:21] initiative? There was there I actually

[04:24] don't know the specifics cuz I don't I

[04:26] don't know every company specifics. I

[04:28] got However, let me ask you a question.

[04:29] When you're hiring somebody, would you

[04:31] rather hire someone that's black or

[04:33] someone that there is excellent? So,

[04:35] that's what we're talking about. That's

[04:36] not what DEI is. Actually, it is. So,

[04:39] let let me let me prove it to you. As I

[04:41] said, according to the student for fair

[04:43] admission Supreme Court case, black

[04:45] students were able to get into Harvard

[04:47] with affirmative action. Affirmative

[04:50] action. Time out. Time out. Time out.

[04:53] Time out. You're getting too worked up

[04:55] here, man. Okay. Time out. Affirmative

[04:57] action is DEI in practice. You see, DEI

[05:00] is a theory. Wasn't it struck down by

[05:03] Supreme Court? Yes. And they still

[05:04] ignore it. Why are you bringing it up?

[05:06] Because they're still ignoring it. My

[05:07] friend, let's focus on my question. Hold

[05:09] on. Let's get back to the core macro

[05:11] tenant which is which I think is very

[05:14] important. Correct. Which is wouldn't

[05:15] you prefer a country built on excellence

[05:17] and merit not one based on forced

[05:20] pigmentation diversity? Why does

[05:22] somebody's skin color matter? No. Tell

[05:25] me what what what differences do you as

[05:27] a black man and me as a white man have?

[05:28] And why does it matter? Okay. So why

[05:30] does it matter? So let's look at because

[05:33] again you don't understand what DI is

[05:34] and you're trying to put into one stance

[05:36] what which is not. So you. Thank you.

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[06:31] So, back to this question. So, in

[06:33] executive order and and and correct me

[06:34] if I'm wrong, you don't know executive

[06:36] order 11246. Correct. So, I mean I I

[06:39] have an idea of what President Trump

[06:40] signed. Correct. But because he got he

[06:43] got rid of that executive order, right?

[06:44] And in that executive order, it says

[06:46] literally, y'all can Google it too. It

[06:49] says that DEI focuses on both the

[06:52] workplace and hiring. Got it. So, does

[06:54] it explain? Now, let me explain it. Does

[06:56] it have the word diversity? Yes, we

[06:58] should not have any force diversity.

[06:59] Period. End of story. It's not forced

[07:00] diversity. It does not for say force

[07:02] diversity and I'll put money on that

[07:03] too. But does it say diversity? It says

[07:05] diversity. Yes. Well, then it's force

[07:07] force diversity. What is it? It's a

[07:08] suggestion. So So correct me if I'm

[07:11] wrong. Tell me if I'm lying. Does it say

[07:12] force diversity in executive order? But

[07:14] it has the word diversity. Does it say

[07:15] force diversity in executive order? Hold

[07:17] on. Let me get this straight. Executive

[07:18] order with the word diversity. Can I

[07:20] give you an example of DI initiative?

[07:21] Let me give you an example of DI

[07:22] initiative so you have a better

[07:23] understanding. So let's look at Google,

[07:25] right? Google's one of the hardest

[07:27] companies to actually get into. In fact,

[07:28] I believe there's a 0.2% 2% chance that

[07:30] you actually get the job, right? They

[07:32] actually run a DI initiative. Their DI

[07:34] initiative is called a hiring committee

[07:36] where they have a diverse group of

[07:38] people working awful. How? So, you're

[07:41] telling me Google sucks? Google actually

[07:43] is honestly. So, y honestly chat GPT is

[07:47] way better than Google recently. I don't

[07:48] know about you guys. No, but honestly,

[07:51] to your point though, Google has lost

[07:53] its competitive edge in a lot of ways

[07:54] the last 10 years. They're Hold on a

[07:56] second again. Google does a lot right,

[07:57] but hold on. Google has lost the social

[07:59] media war. Google tried to launch a

[08:01] Facebook competitor, Instagram

[08:03] competitor failed. They try to also

[08:05] launch a Zoom and Skype competitor.

[08:06] Conversation has no problem. Google's

[08:08] market cap Google's market cap,

[08:10] otherwise known as Alphabet, has

[08:12] actually missed expectations over the

[08:14] last 2 years versus Netflix, Amazon, and

[08:17] Apple, and Microsoft. In fact, there was

[08:18] a prediction 10 years ago that Google

[08:20] would be the first $3 trillion company.

[08:22] Turns out that it was actually Microsoft

[08:24] that was the first $3 trillion company.

[08:26] Now, of course, Alphabet is a very good

[08:27] company on a lot of different ways, but

[08:29] if your argument right now is like,

[08:30] well, because the one of the biggest

[08:32] companies on the planet has embraced a

[08:34] bad idea, what is your argument exactly?

[08:36] They're still one of the best companies

[08:37] in the world. Not because of that,

[08:38] because they were built by merit and

[08:40] it's being destroyed by diversity and

[08:42] they use DEI to get that merit. Listen,

[08:45] if if they're hiring people, yes, it

[08:47] makes sense. If if you're doing a hiring

[08:48] process and you have a hiring committee

[08:50] that is DEI and they're hiring the

[08:52] people that's making the company as

[08:54] great as we just said, how your argument

[08:56] your argument is that DEI takes away

[08:59] merit. But if we see that Google is

[09:01] doing well and they're using DEI, how

[09:03] the hell are you saying that DEI is not

[09:05] making merit? First of all, Google has

[09:06] not had this hiring committee around

[09:07] since its inception. They have. No, not

[09:09] since it inception, but they had it for

[09:10] a while. And the people in the committee

[09:12] are people who's been there for a while,

[09:14] which is very diverse. Secondly, you you

[09:16] have not answered this fundamental

[09:18] question though, which is can you tell

[09:20] me when a organization gets forcibly

[09:22] more diverse, it gets better.

[09:25] Google. Again, I just proved to you

[09:26] Google is Google. I just gave you

[09:29] Google. They use DEI. Not only are they

[09:32] one of the best companies Oh, yeah.

[09:33] Yeah. I hate that argument. Great. I

[09:35] mean, again, it's just they're fine. I'm

[09:37] not going to like totally kind of crap

[09:38] on Google, but like more importantly and

[09:41] more more broadly, I do think you have

[09:44] to answer the question why why does skin

[09:47] color matter at all in hiring? Answer

[09:49] that question. Why does skin color

[09:51] matter? So, if we look at basketball,

[09:54] cuz you love talking about that, right?

[09:55] Can we both agree that at one point

[09:58] there was no black athletes and then

[10:00] what happens? They diversified. They got

[10:02] rid of forced segregation, which is a

[10:04] form of DEI. So, and that diversified

[10:06] the the basketball because it was based

[10:08] on merit. Was it diversified? Yes, but

[10:10] not by force. No, hold on a second. Very

[10:12] much. Hold on. But if you're argument is

[10:13] that if you want to make things more

[10:15] merit-based, then let's do it. It is

[10:17] more merit based. They made it

[10:19] diversifying. They diversified

[10:21] basketball, bringing black people who

[10:23] are good in it. Nothing. Nothing you're

[10:26] saying is making any sense because what

[10:28] they did, the NBA went to pure merit,

[10:32] pure excellence. Are you good at this?

[10:35] That's all they cared about in the They

[10:36] allowed black people in. Right. Exactly.

[10:38] Because prior because pri hold on

[10:41] because you know what they had prior was

[10:43] a form of racial stereotyping and you

[10:46] want more racial stereotyping. Your

[10:48] worldview is indecipherable from the

[10:49] KKK. What you want? It's indecipherable

[10:52] cuz you are race obsessed. I am not race

[10:55] obsessed. You talk about the race. You

[10:57] talk about race more than the grand

[10:59] wizard of the KKK. Because the grand

[11:02] wizard of the KKK. Well, think about it.

[11:04] I said your worldview. Think about it

[11:06] because you're around talking about race

[11:08] all the time. I'm talking about

[11:09] character. Which of you talk about race

[11:11] all the time. You literally said DEI is

[11:13] based on race when it's

[11:15] not with accessibility. You're getting

[11:17] really upset. My bad. You're right. Cuz

[11:18] you keep lying. For instance, right,

[11:20] I've been trying to say this. DI one

[11:22] part of DI is literally giving women p

[11:25] um tampons or pads at work. Oh yeah.

[11:29] You're laughing because you don't know

[11:30] that. women tampons is a form of DEI.

[11:33] Yes, it is. You know why? Let me

[11:34] explain. Let me explain. Yeah. Yeah. No,

[11:36] I got you. I'm about to explain to you

[11:37] guys. So, basically what happens is the

[11:39] the reason why we have DEI is the fact

[11:42] that um in a job um location, right?

[11:44] They want to hire more people diverse.

[11:46] So, what they is these initiatives,

[11:48] these goals, these aspirations that

[11:49] they're doing is trying to bring more

[11:51] people in. For instance, like if um um

[11:53] what's that store Trader Joe's, right?

[11:55] They let people sit down while they uh

[11:57] let uh they bring stuff in. They help

[12:00] disability. That's DI. That helps

[12:02] disabled people get a job at Trader

[12:04] Joe's. But what you're telling me is

[12:06] that we are not allowed to to tell

[12:08] people that for like onboarding.

[12:10] Onboarding in itself is also DEI. When

[12:12] they explain to you sexual harassment,

[12:14] when they do all these things, when they

[12:16] make it more a safer place, that is DEI.

[12:19] And what you're saying is that the

[12:21] workplace shouldn't be uh um safe. What

[12:23] you're saying is that more companies

[12:25] should have discrimination lawsuits.

[12:27] Let's get back. Let's get back to

[12:29] regional lawsuits. DEI is racial quotas.

[12:32] End of story. Give me one racial quoted

[12:34] airlines. I I Googled that. Go ahead. I

[12:37] Googled it. Okay, great. So So go ahead.

[12:39] Go ahead. Continue. What What did United

[12:42] Airlines announce? Because you know what

[12:44] I said about black pilots? What did they

[12:46] announce when it came to pilots? And why

[12:47] should skin color matter when you board

[12:49] an airplane? So just remind everybody is

[12:51] Charlie Kirk's uh idea. He basic Yes.

[12:54] Stop talking. So Charlie Kirk basically

[12:58] that's very that's very massage that's

[13:00] not very dei of you.

[13:04] All right let me finish cooking. So

[13:06] right

[13:12] [Music]

[13:17] so can I can I finish? So Charlie Kirk

[13:20] said that they're basically hiring women

[13:23] of color to make 40 or 50%. Right? But

[13:25] when you actually look into it, what

[13:27] happens is women and people of color,

[13:28] right? Women and people of color. What

[13:30] happens is they're creating a program

[13:32] that's allowing women to train become

[13:34] pilots. If you actually look at the

[13:35] requirements for these program is

[13:37] nothing different than any other program

[13:40] that trains pilots. But you told people

[13:43] that they're just hiring women when

[13:45] that's not true. First of all, I never

[13:46] said that. Second, yes, you did. I did a

[13:48] video on it, guy. Yes, I know what I

[13:50] said. Secondly, when you hire based on

[13:53] race and not on excellence, you end up

[13:54] compromising the standards of

[13:56] excellence. Allow me to finish without

[13:58] interrupting. When you hire based on

[14:00] race and not on excellence, you end up

[14:02] compromising excellence to be able to

[14:03] pursue race. We know this with Harvard,

[14:05] University of California. We know this

[14:06] with major companies. We know this with

[14:08] the government. Exactly. DEI, that is a

[14:10] affirmative action is DEI philosophy in

[14:13] practice. You're bringing old. Allow me

[14:15] to finish my statement. They are

[14:18] actively defying the Supreme Court

[14:19] decision or they are contorting their

[14:21] policies to try to fit their own DEI

[14:23] agenda. But let me ask you a question.

[14:25] If you were to board a United Airlines,

[14:27] right? If you were to board a flight

[14:28] with United Airlines, would you rather

[14:30] have a pilot that is qualified or one

[14:33] that is diverse?

[14:36] Answer the question. That makes no

[14:38] sense. Why is there two different

[14:39] things? How is it different when you go

[14:41] to American? Because in the pursuit of

[14:43] diversity, in the pursuit of diversity,

[14:45] you sacrifice excellence. Every time, we

[14:48] know this with Harvard, we know this

[14:49] with Yale, we know this with the

[14:50] military. Every time, every example that

[14:53] we pursue diversity, an institution

[14:55] becomes less excellent. It becomes some

[14:57] part. When you go on a plane, do you go

[14:59] to the pilot and ask for your

[15:01] credentials or do you have do you

[15:02] believe that the airline did the right

[15:04] thing and high? So, you

[15:07] ask I start to doubt it. That was my

[15:10] statement. University was my statement.

[15:12] My statement was when you're going to if

[15:14] you're going to go from 4% of the pilots

[15:16] being black to 50% of the pilots to be

[15:19] black, it begs the question, you are

[15:21] going to lower the standards. You are

[15:23] going to you're going to put a square

[15:24] peg through a round hole. You are going

[15:26] to force something that naturally is not

[15:28] happening and you will all of a sudden

[15:29] be playing a very treacherous and

[15:31] dangerous game when you board a plane.

[15:32] When I get heart surgery or if I board a

[15:35] plane, I don't care about the color of

[15:36] the skin of the person doing it. I want

[15:39] excellence and I want meritocracy.

[15:41] platform. Yes. Yes. So, so stop talking.

[15:45] You're talking. So, right. Let's get

[15:47] back to because you're talking a lot.

[15:53] Final point, then I'll get to the next

[15:54] question. Oh, yeah. That's fair. That's

[15:55] fair. That's fair. That's fair. That's

[15:56] fair. Fair. Okay. So, again, so going

[15:58] back to what you said, cuz like I said

[15:59] earlier ago, you said um and I forgot

[16:01] this is IU. You basically said that um

[16:04] that women are being hired to become

[16:06] pilots. Right now, first, that's not

[16:08] that's a lie. That's based on a program.

[16:10] Second, what? Correct me if I'm wrong.

[16:13] Becoming a pilot is based on skill.

[16:15] Correct. It's not based on height. It's

[16:17] not based on on on physicality. That's

[16:19] based on nothing. It's based on skill.

[16:20] Meaning that if you're being Oh. So,

[16:22] what is it based on? Because based on a

[16:24] now public lawsuit with the Department

[16:26] of Transportation in 2016 2017, air

[16:28] traffic controllers and pilot standards

[16:30] were lowered in pursuit of diversity.

[16:31] Sure. I'll looked at because of over 15,

[16:33] let me finish. Because of 15

[16:34] whistleblowers that said the standard of

[16:36] air traffic controllers and pilots were

[16:38] being sacrificed in the pursuit of

[16:39] diversity. ly inclusion. You're lying

[16:41] again. Okay. I mean, people can do their

[16:43] independent research and they also I've

[16:44] done it and you're lying. They actually

[16:46] made it harder. They add more scenarios

[16:48] within the FAA. Everybody here Google

[16:51] Google it right now. Yeah. Okay. Again,

[16:53] the the the documents bear out exactly.

[16:55] We now have

[16:57] we have air traffic controllers after

[16:59] air traffic controllers have said in the

[17:01] pursuit of making air traffic

[17:03] controlling more diverse, we have then

[17:05] lowered the quality of air traffic

[17:06] controlling. So at the end of all this,

[17:08] what you basically told me is that if

[17:11] merit matters, you don't it it doesn't

[17:13] matter because when we mentioned blind

[17:14] hiring, you said you're against that,

[17:16] which is based on that. No time out.

[17:17] They said that they want to prioritize a

[17:20] group above what is merit meritocratic.

[17:23] I didn't say that. That that's what

[17:24] United Airlines said. They said

[17:26] confident the executive order out loud

[17:29] United Airlines

[17:32] again. They said half of all their new

[17:33] hires you got cooked. Okay. We we we

[17:36] have clarity and the clarity is very

[17:38] simple. We want a country based on

[17:42] content and merit. He wants a

[17:44] retribalization of America.

[17:47] Thank