Charlie Kirk Explains What True Statesmanship Means in 2025 and Why JD Vance Embodies It

[00:00] All right, Charlie, we are at the 2025

[00:02] Claremont Statesmanship Award. Uh

[00:05] they're going to give that to JD Vance.

[00:07] This is an incredible event. Claremont,

[00:09] of course, prides itself on

[00:10] statesmanship at the heart of what it

[00:12] does or what it teaches. Um this is

[00:15] something that you've been involved with

[00:17] now really you could we could say your

[00:18] entire life, right? I mean,

[00:20] statesmanship is tied to making this

[00:22] country great again.

[00:23] Yes.

[00:23] And making this country great. And I

[00:25] feel like this is a word that's, you

[00:26] know, sort of a a fancy word that that

[00:29] people throw around and people hear that

[00:31] word and it just kind of can go in one

[00:33] ear and out the out the other. So what

[00:34] does statesmanship mean to you?

[00:37] Well, practically I think we saw

[00:39] statesmanship on display from the

[00:40] president recently where he was

[00:43] displayed with two options. The one was

[00:45] do absolutely nothing with Iran and just

[00:47] ignore it. The other one was hey go full

[00:48] regime change John Bolton style. And the

[00:51] statesman first has to know what you

[00:52] want. That's the you have to have what

[00:54] the Telos is, right? Which is you have

[00:56] to have a destination. And so President

[00:58] Trump had a destination which is like,

[00:59] well, there's a problem here. We've been

[01:02] talking about Iranian nuclear weapons

[01:03] for 20 years. He has. But I want

[01:06] American revitalization and not a Middle

[01:07] East quagmire. So he he had a very firm

[01:10] destination in mind. And I think so

[01:12] often is that people who think they are

[01:14] statesmen or people who play statesmen

[01:16] on TV, there there is no aim. There is

[01:18] no destination. there is no final form

[01:20] or final u product where President Trump

[01:23] worked backwards. He said okay I want

[01:25] this to be wrapped up within a week.

[01:27] That was his first how do I do this

[01:28] where I can have Iran of no nuclear

[01:30] weapons but I also I ran on a mandate of

[01:33] disentangling ourselves from these

[01:34] endless conflicts from no more quagmires

[01:36] and then of course resisting the calls

[01:38] for regime change and so that's what I

[01:40] think it means practically and we can

[01:42] talk philosophically too. Well, yeah.

[01:43] Let's talk more practically and work

[01:45] ourselves to the

[01:46] philosophy anyone can you.

[01:48] Yeah. Well, as we both know, uh the phil

[01:51] the philosophic definition can start in

[01:52] any abstract fantasy land.

[01:54] Well, you and I were talking off camera.

[01:55] It's like it's below the philosopher,

[01:56] but you know,

[01:57] Yeah. Ultimately, philosophy in the

[01:59] Western tradition is higher because it's

[02:01] just simply knowing the truth about

[02:02] something. But the problem is people who

[02:04] call themselves philosophers are often

[02:06] suspect and talk in abstract, you know,

[02:08] terms. So let's talk about this a little

[02:10] bit more because you know we we've both

[02:13] um been around a lot of politicians and

[02:15] people who care uh supposedly about the

[02:18] country and that's their job whatever

[02:20] the politician in America's job is right

[02:23] what differentiates the person who is

[02:25] the statesman in 2025

[02:28] well first I think when we're constantly

[02:30] trying to be held captive by ideology it

[02:32] would be prudence which would be

[02:34] practical judgment and I think JD Vance

[02:36] embodies that incredibly well you see

[02:38] when you're in elected office, you have

[02:40] to be prisoner to the the party dogma

[02:43] and the political expectations of the

[02:45] time. For example, when President Trump

[02:47] entered into the political space 10

[02:49] years ago, think about it, it's been a

[02:50] decade.

[02:51] You would never be able to talk about a

[02:52] border wall,

[02:53] let alone mass deportations.

[02:55] You would not be able to talk about you

[02:58] trade or foreign wars. And so a true

[03:01] statesman is able to identify the

[03:03] problems and then with the proper amount

[03:05] of moral courage and with precision

[03:08] rhetorically be able to address these

[03:10] things and then move the overton window.

[03:12] You just look at 10 years from now. No

[03:13] one even talks about the wall anymore.

[03:15] Yeah.

[03:15] So I mean like the wall is not like we

[03:17] used to talk about the border wall all

[03:18] the time and now 10 years later we're

[03:20] kind of like okay yeah we got the wall.

[03:21] Where are the deportations? You look at

[03:23] how in the Overton window it goes from

[03:24] that which is unthinkable all the way to

[03:26] public policy right? goes from like

[03:27] unthinkable to radical, I think, to

[03:29] neutral to um to credible to popular.

[03:32] I'm I'm approximating.

[03:33] How do you think that happened? How do

[03:35] how did the overtone window move? How

[03:37] did we get to the point where it was

[03:38] shocking that Trump talked about a

[03:40] border wall, right? And now all of a

[03:42] sudden, we're at the point where mass

[03:43] deportations or bust has to happen or

[03:45] he's failed this movement.

[03:46] First of all, we just have to recognize

[03:48] this is an unbelievable accomplishment.

[03:50] if he's done nothing else but move the

[03:52] Overton window that dramatically, it's

[03:54] just that that that's a legacy item

[03:56] amongst many others. I think it happened

[03:59] first and foremost because President

[04:00] Trump is who he is and he he fed off of

[04:04] the opposition almost as an energy life

[04:06] force. I don't know if we could have

[04:07] moved the Overton window on immigration

[04:10] absent just becoming like London if it

[04:12] wasn't for President Trump and really

[04:14] just his emphasis and his focus, his

[04:16] dedication and then building popular

[04:18] consensus. And understand it took it it

[04:20] took 10 years. I mean even in the 2020

[04:22] election, we were now talking about mass

[04:24] deportations

[04:25] and this has grown itself into a mass

[04:29] movement of public consensus. But

[04:31] President Trump also made the argument

[04:33] repeatedly. He was unafraid to go into

[04:35] the public space and to be able to

[04:37] contend with people of opposing views. I

[04:39] think JD Vance is of a very similar

[04:40] vein. And so what does it mean to be a

[04:42] statesman in the modern era, especially

[04:45] in the quote unquote Republican party?

[04:46] It's you must be unafraid to challenge

[04:48] your the own political dogma if it's

[04:50] actually not benefiting the nation or

[04:52] the body politic. And the three the

[04:54] three kind of three-legged stool of

[04:56] neoliberalism which is endless war,

[04:58] invite the world and import a bunch of

[05:00] plastic, right? Invade the world, invite

[05:02] the world, import plastic. Those are the

[05:04] three main core pillars of

[05:05] neoliberalism. Only a statesman can

[05:08] challenge us effectively. Now talk a

[05:10] little bit about motivation here because

[05:12] one thing I I think about a lot lately

[05:13] is uh you know when you're when you're

[05:15] evaluating talent for instance in a

[05:17] business or an organization uh you want

[05:20] to know what what drives people and what

[05:22] happens when you know we we grow up in

[05:25] life and we look around the cabin is

[05:27] that you notice a lot of people's

[05:29] motivation especially in politics right

[05:32] is is uh you know as Bob Dylan once said

[05:35] uh to get rich quick get you know get

[05:37] get out of it and uh get the money and

[05:39] chicks, you know, I mean it I mean

[05:40] there's a lot of Congress people who are

[05:43] basically influencers at this point.

[05:45] That's right.

[05:45] And that's the world we inhabit. That's

[05:47] fine. You know, it's always sort of been

[05:48] that way.

[05:49] But when it comes to statesmanship, I

[05:51] mean, how do you how do you think about

[05:52] the motivation of the statesman and how

[05:55] do you how do you form that?

[05:56] Well, it's incredibly important. I mean,

[05:58] President Trump's motivation is the

[06:00] nation. It is the country. It's the only

[06:01] reason why he ran again. Same same with

[06:03] JD Vance. But most people in politics

[06:06] that masquerade or pantomime as

[06:09] statesmen their ultimate cause is self

[06:12] notoriety, popularity, power, prestige

[06:15] and so they will do whatever is necess.

[06:16] So then if that is their final cause

[06:19] then everything that is a second or

[06:21] third or tertiary effect from there will

[06:23] be like well I have to take this vote

[06:24] because the most important thing is not

[06:25] the nation but it's power its prestige

[06:28] its popularity and then so you you

[06:29] extrapolate that over 30 30 years you're

[06:32] like well okay that's that's one of the

[06:33] reasons why we're in the problem that

[06:34] we're in.

[06:35] Right. Right. And yeah so this is so

[06:37] important I think um for people to

[06:39] realize and it's not as if it's not like

[06:41] you know it's not not as people say a

[06:42] black pill. It shouldn't be depressing.

[06:43] It's just this is human nature which the

[06:45] founders understood. Of course we're

[06:46] sitting here at this this Claremont

[06:48] event and they they understood this and

[06:50] there was a great book called fame and

[06:51] the founding fathers by Douglas Adair

[06:53] where he talks about how their fame was

[06:55] tied they harnessed their ambition to do

[06:57] great things for the sake of the country

[06:59] for the sake of the common good rather

[07:01] than you know the Graham. Yes. Exactly.

[07:03] And

[07:04] but that but but that requires a

[07:05] detachment from the immediate and a

[07:08] elevation of the transcendent which

[07:10] modernity has been so firm at not

[07:14] allowing the transcendent. I mean you

[07:16] look at the tech companies for example

[07:17] tech companies got away from any sort of

[07:19] emphasis on a national project and

[07:21] basically all of our brain power in this

[07:23] country goes towards how can I customize

[07:26] an app that can better self-indulge your

[07:28] narcissism. And you think about like the

[07:30] Manhattan project. You look at where the

[07:31] brains used to go used to go towards

[07:33] these compelling worldchanging projects.

[07:36] And now the the the best and brightest

[07:38] that we have, they will go through how

[07:40] can I make, you know, a how can you

[07:43] order a gizmo better or a widget or how

[07:46] can you customize your face on a filter?

[07:49] That's all fine. I mean, it's a free

[07:50] society. You have the agency to do that.

[07:52] But there's nothing transcendent about

[07:53] that, right? And so in order for it to

[07:56] be more than than the Graham or Tik Tok,

[07:59] it requires for you to then elevate

[08:01] something that is actually above us as

[08:03] humans. And we believe that to either be

[08:04] God or a transcendent purpose.

[08:06] Yeah. Yeah. The laws of nature and

[08:07] nature's God as it were. We're just

[08:09] celebrating

[08:10] the birthday that we're celebrating

[08:11] right now.

[08:12] Yes. Um Yeah. So when it when it comes

[08:14] to the future, uh you know, I I I don't

[08:17] want to be too optimistic. Um but my

[08:20] careful cuz I cuz I do I know I should

[08:22] be relentlessly optimistic, right? I

[08:24] mean, that's the lesson. But when I look

[08:26] at the people that I hang out with,

[08:27] again, self- selection, but sort of

[08:29] Claremont fellows or just the Publius

[08:30] Fellowship,

[08:32] I feel as if a lot of these younger

[08:35] people are much more in tune with

[08:38] statesmanship in the sense that they

[08:40] actually want to make the country better

[08:41] and they don't care about the old

[08:44] prestige structure and all that. Is that

[08:45] you think that's

[08:46] well you think about it though if you're

[08:47] young and you want to get involved in

[08:49] politics or being a statesman that means

[08:50] that you are likely uh forsaking higher

[08:54] more money and more wealth in another

[08:56] field. You think about it the the the

[08:59] top like I similar to the technology

[09:00] example but where the brain drain that

[09:03] has quietly been happen here

[09:04] domestically is that our best and

[09:06] brightest went away from politics and

[09:07] into business the last 30 40 years and

[09:09] the virtuous and the good and the noble.

[09:11] You know what I'm saying? And so then

[09:13] you have kind of a slop that has

[09:15] infested our politics. That's why

[09:16] President Trump stood out so much is

[09:18] that he was a legitimately high

[09:20] performer outside of politics. So what

[09:22] you're seeing now, at least we see it at

[09:23] Turning Point USA, I know you I know you

[09:24] see it at the Blaze and Claremont is

[09:26] that the high IQ, high driven, virtuous

[09:28] people are now saying, you know what,

[09:30] okay, fine. I could go make $200 million

[09:32] at Goldman Sachs, but that's not deep.

[09:34] That's not fulfilling. Instead, I would

[09:36] rather go be a statesman. I would rather

[09:38] go work in the State Department. And

[09:39] these are people that could go make a

[09:40] ton of money elsewhere,

[09:42] which means that just monetary gain is

[09:44] not the is not the most important.

[09:47] It's not the driving factor or motivator

[09:49] of so many in this generation. That that

[09:51] that by the way is closer to the World

[09:53] War II generation, the greatest

[09:54] generation, which puts sacrifice and a

[09:56] transcendent ideal above immediate, you

[09:59] know, satisfaction and also the founding

[10:00] generation. And and that's where you get

[10:03] amazing accomplishment when when all of

[10:05] a sudden you say I'm it's not gonna

[10:07] always just be about my comfort or my

[10:10] you know my satience or I'm actually

[10:12] going to put something above. What is

[10:14] that transcendent ideal? And if it is a

[10:16] nation if if even 5% of our brain power

[10:19] started to dedicate themselves to our

[10:21] nation not just you know creating the

[10:23] next social media app like what are you

[10:25] doing if you're creating another social

[10:26] media app? that it's fine. Again, you

[10:28] can do that. But imagine if all of a

[10:30] sudden the the people that have the

[10:33] capacity and the wherewithal dedicated

[10:35] itself towards a national revival.

[10:38] So true. Uh so well said. So for a lot

[10:41] of people, you know, in in the audience,

[10:43] a lot of people I talked to uh

[10:44] throughout the country, they wonder they

[10:46] get they get frustrated with the people

[10:48] who aren't statesmen, right? The fact

[10:49] that we you know, so you say

[10:50] statesmanship by the United States

[10:52] Congress and it's sort of a laughing at

[10:53] point. Um, so they're frustrated and

[10:56] they just want people who care about

[10:57] their country and that's why they voted

[10:59] for President Trump because they know

[11:00] that he does. I mean, why is he doing it

[11:01] now, right? I mean, even the last term

[11:03] you could you could come up with like

[11:04] excuses for, well, maybe he wants to do

[11:06] this or that. This he's just dedicated

[11:08] to saving this country. That's clear to

[11:10] them. But but how do they select the

[11:14] leaders who will replicate what Trump is

[11:17] doing? How do they how do you how do you

[11:19] form these people and how do you select

[11:21] them? because there's a lot of people

[11:22] they're voters, they're good citizens,

[11:24] they're concerned about their country.

[11:26] So, what do they look for? And how do we

[11:27] form these people?

[11:28] The the the binary that must be created

[11:30] is is your elected official shallow or

[11:33] deep?

[11:34] And people think President Trump is

[11:35] shallow, but he's actually a very very

[11:37] deep person. Incredibly so. And what do

[11:39] I mean by that? Do they think about the

[11:41] deeper things? Are they willing to

[11:42] challenge pre-existing dogmas? I mean,

[11:44] JD Vance is objectively a deep person.

[11:46] He reads the great books. He understands

[11:48] philosophy. So you break that into kind

[11:50] of two different categories and then you

[11:52] look at some of the people that have

[11:54] infected our congressional space. I

[11:57] would not think deep would be a word

[11:58] that we would use.

[11:59] No. No.

[12:00] And so I think we need people that are

[12:01] deeper that are thoughtful that are

[12:03] there also for the uh for the better

[12:06] worldview and the better view to win.

[12:08] Not just who's going to be able to get

[12:10] conference chair.

[12:11] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can say that a

[12:13] thousand times and it won't be enough. I

[12:15] mean, it's astounding to me how the

[12:18] simple things matter and the simple

[12:20] things are why are you trying to do what

[12:22] you're doing? Political will. This is

[12:24] where Trump, I think, showed us so much.

[12:26] And you've been a part of this the the

[12:27] entire way through where, you know, in

[12:29] the last year, we've just seen him say,

[12:31] "No, we're not going to do that." And

[12:33] then the political will is there and

[12:34] then it happens because he's doing it

[12:35] for the right reasons. Is that too

[12:37] simplistic?

[12:37] No, it's not. And one of my depressing

[12:39] and but also um I would say optimistic

[12:43] revelations both depressing and

[12:45] optimistic is that almost every major

[12:46] problem facing America is a failure or a

[12:49] success of the will.

[12:50] Mhm.

[12:51] We just didn't want to have a border

[12:52] under Joe Biden. We just said

[12:53] we want to we we put up with violent

[12:55] crime in our cities. Not that there's

[12:57] some sort of like we don't know we know

[12:58] how to solve it actually. And and we

[13:00] also we we put up with the idea that you

[13:02] can't walk, you know, the streets of LA

[13:04] at 2 a.m. That's a that's a that is a

[13:06] symptom and a consequence of conscious

[13:09] decision-m. And so it really comes down

[13:11] to the will. And I mean, you guys taught

[13:14] me, you know, we have will to power, you

[13:16] know, will to pleasure. Like, do we have

[13:17] a will to our nation?

[13:19] And if we do, then we're going to have a

[13:20] country again. And that's where

[13:21] President Trump has this sometimes just

[13:24] like on like awe inspiring, some people

[13:26] would say metaphysical force that just

[13:28] doesn't stop. And because he has the

[13:31] will to act and the will to point

[13:32] towards ultimate purposes.

[13:34] Yeah. It's amazing what a will to do

[13:36] good for your country and your fellow

[13:37] citizens can do. Amazing.

[13:39] That's right. As long as you're pointing

[13:40] to the right thing. Yes.

[13:41] Because you can have you can think

[13:42] you're doing the right thing, but you

[13:44] could have will to catastrophe like FDR.

[13:47] Yeah. Our Hitler.

[13:49] Yeah. Exactly. I try not to say everyone

[13:51] mentions or Stalin or you know.

[13:53] Yeah. Yeah.

[13:54] He was a little he was a little on that.

[13:56] Little bit little bit that way. That's

[13:57] right. So, so we're sitting here,

[13:58] speaking of goodwill, we're sitting here

[14:00] at the Claremont Institute's event, uh,

[14:02] which is a great event, giving an award

[14:03] for statesmanship here in the year of

[14:05] our Lord 2025, uh, to JD Vance, who we

[14:09] have to say is a young politician. He's

[14:12] he's young, uh, compared to a lot of the

[14:15] old people who run this country. And

[14:17] he's he's remember they called him

[14:19] weird.

[14:19] Oh, I remember. Yeah.

[14:21] Tim Walsh calling him weird. It's

[14:22] really, you know,

[14:23] so what would your your short pitch be

[14:25] for why it's it's obvious, just right,

[14:28] and fitting that JD Vance obtains this

[14:31] this award this year?

[14:32] Well, first of all, I mean, JD's a great

[14:34] friend, so I'm, you know, incredibly

[14:35] biased. I I I was the one of the first

[14:37] people to endorse him for Senate, like

[14:38] right out of the gate. I was like I was

[14:40] basic I was day one or day two. And it

[14:43] wasn't that I knew that he one day would

[14:44] be president. I knew that this is what

[14:45] we need more of.

[14:46] A deep thinker, understands the issue.

[14:49] He's also a really wonderful family man,

[14:51] an entrepreneur. And so, it's just been

[14:53] the hand of the Lord to see him ascend

[14:55] now to the vice presidents and maybe one

[14:57] day to be president of the United

[14:58] States, uh, if that's, you know, the

[15:00] Lord's will. And I'm going to be working

[15:02] hard on that anyway I possibly can. But

[15:03] there's a lot of work you have to do

[15:05] here. But look, I mean, he he's he

[15:07] again, I'll I'll go back to this. He's a

[15:08] very thoughtful person. And having dealt

[15:11] with him now as the vice president, he

[15:14] is constantly courting other people's

[15:16] opinions. Very similar to President

[15:18] Trump. He understands the philosophical

[15:20] but also the real he doesn't just live

[15:22] in the clouds. He also lives um in in in

[15:25] the weeds and the real life

[15:26] implications. And as a true statesman,

[15:29] he never forgot where he came from. He

[15:30] never forgot that he came from rural

[15:32] Ohio and Appalachia. And that is the

[15:34] connective tissue of his politics which

[15:36] almost always reverts back to okay would

[15:39] 8-year-old JD Vance benefit from this

[15:41] and the answer is yes then okay he'll

[15:43] work his way through that from not

[15:44] another unnecessary war right from

[15:46] restrictive immigration from better

[15:48] trade policies and JD Vance is someone

[15:51] as a statesman you must you must also be

[15:54] able to be made for the moment some

[15:56] people under the moment they

[15:57] crumble under the moment and look at

[15:59] this he was vi vice presidential nominee

[16:01] he was barely a senator for 2 years and

[16:04] he's excelled in every single way. He's

[16:05] also a man of phenomenal moral courage.

[16:07] I mean, I wouldn't want to go straight

[16:09] to Germany with a NATO meeting and call

[16:11] them all. I mean, that that takes some,

[16:13] right? That there's some guts there. Uh

[16:16] but for all those reasons, JD Vance is

[16:18] more than deserving for that award.

[16:19] Oh, yeah. I mean, just what you say like

[16:20] to have someone who's actually

[16:22] thoughtful in politics. I mean, it's

[16:23] very rare.

[16:24] I like to say it's just good to see

[16:25] Twitter mutuals do well for themselves.

[16:29] Exactly. Someone that actually has more

[16:30] to say than just, you know,

[16:32] Yes. vote for me.

[16:33] And and so JD came to to Claremont very

[16:36] um very early on when he was looking for

[16:39] President Trump's endorsement because he

[16:41] was trying to make the argument because

[16:42] he'd said some things like many people

[16:44] did. He didn't quite understand Trump at

[16:45] first and uh he came to uh he came to

[16:48] Claremont and was just very convincing

[16:51] and that's when we all got to know him

[16:52] and and I think everyone was just blown

[16:54] away by how thoughtful he was, by how

[16:56] serious he was and you know here we are

[16:59] now at this award. So, you know, a lot

[17:01] of people don't even know about the

[17:03] Claremont Institute. They don't they

[17:04] don't even they have no idea what the

[17:06] Claremont Institute is. And those who

[17:08] know, they know, right? Um, so that's

[17:10] why I'm here.

[17:11] Yeah. So, what what is what is your

[17:12] thought about what Claremont is and does

[17:14] and the importance? It's it's the

[17:16] intellectual home of the new right and

[17:18] it is of the youth young inspiring

[17:22] sometimes provocative boundary pushing

[17:25] you know philosophical momentum in the

[17:27] movement right now which is why we're

[17:29] talking about mass deportations and the

[17:30] most important thing by the way that

[17:31] Claremont has led on for 20 years is

[17:33] dismantling the administrative state.

[17:35] That is something that that Claremont

[17:37] has never ever lost focus of. But the

[17:40] fellowship was one of my most favorite

[17:42] weeks of my life even though it was in

[17:43] Vegas. But it was really it was really a

[17:45] fun time of

[17:46] it was co time people have a choice.

[17:48] Usually it's here but uh it it was it

[17:50] was really a remarkable time to just

[17:52] learn from the brightest minds and just

[17:53] go all in and just think for an entire I

[17:55] think it was like 10 days about you know

[17:58] why we are here and what is good

[17:59] government? What does it mean to be a

[18:00] good person and the true and the

[18:02] beautiful and so yeah I mean Claremont

[18:05] is a powerhouse but punches way above

[18:06] its weight.

[18:07] Yeah it was a pleasure to have you

[18:09] there. It's a a pleasure to be part of

[18:10] this network myself. It's I'm also

[18:12] grateful. Our friendship started there.

[18:14] Yeah.

[18:15] And that's that's where it all began.

[18:16] And uh may it long continue and thank

[18:19] you so much for being with us today.

[18:21] Thank you.