Charlie Kirk Murdered in Utah: Fox News Attempts to Mythologize MAGA Figure Fall Flat

[00:04] Charlie Kirk was murdered

[00:05] in Utah over two months ago.

[00:07] At the time that had happened,

[00:09] the MAGA movement and Fox News

[00:11] really thought it was going to be

[00:12] this galvanizing moment

[00:14] for their movement.

[00:15] I'm skeptical of that,

[00:16] and so is my colleague Russell Payne.

[00:19] He has written an article about it.

[00:21] Russell, what was your article about?

[00:23] I reported on how all the efforts to

[00:27] carry on Charlie

[00:28] Kirk's legacy have basically fallen apart

[00:31] in the roughly two months

[00:33] since his death.

[00:34] What's funny about this is

[00:35] even though

[00:37] the balloon seems to be losing

[00:38] air, Fox News keeps trying to

[00:42] turn Charlie Kirk into this

[00:44] hero figure, this martyr

[00:45] figure for the MAGA movement.

[00:47] And so I brought Russell in

[00:49] so that we can

[00:49] look at some examples

[00:51] of how they've been doing this

[00:52] and discuss whether it's working.

[00:55] I want to start with this

[00:56] clip of Erika Kirk, who

[00:59] is Charlie's widow, and

[01:01] Fox News literally gave her an award,

[01:03] and it just shows how much they want this

[01:05] to be a call to action for the right.

[01:08] Charlie was courageous, bold,

[01:10] and committed

[01:11] to sharing his vision

[01:12] for America, its families,

[01:14] and the future.

[01:16] His death marked

[01:17] a turning point for this nation.

[01:19] Charlie understood

[01:20] very, very early on that

[01:22] there was a void,

[01:24] especially on college

[01:26] campuses for young people.

[01:27] It is our great honor

[01:29] to present the first ever

[01:31] Charlie Kirk Legacy

[01:32] Patriot Award to the woman

[01:34] who refuses to surrender.

[01:36] Charlie would always tell myself

[01:39] and others

[01:40] that America is worth fighting for.

[01:42] He never fled

[01:44] from the spiritual battle that's ahead.

[01:45] And we all know it.

[01:47] We all feel the spiritual warfare.

[01:50] This whole room feels that.

[01:51] This whole nation feels

[01:53] this spiritual warfare.

[01:54] Everything about this clip,

[01:56] the way she's dressed,

[01:57] the style of the trophy,

[01:59] it's screaming Boomer to me.

[02:01] You're a young person,

[02:02] does any of this speak to you?

[02:04] I have to say,

[02:05] you know, I think Charlie Kirk was often

[02:08] kind of hailed as a youth whisperer,

[02:11] and there was some truth in that.

[02:12] But one of his real talents

[02:13] was being able

[02:14] to go between

[02:15] with sort of the mega-donors

[02:17] and the older people

[02:18] who want to feel like

[02:19] they're having an influence on the youth.

[02:20] the whole Fox News presentation,

[02:22] you've got to think who's watching

[02:23] Fox News.

[02:24] It's not young conservatives,

[02:26] it's not young right wingers.

[02:27] It's mostly old people that are still,

[02:29] you know, watching cable TV.

[02:31] Yeah.

[02:31] It doesn't mean that

[02:33] there aren't young right

[02:34] wingers out there.

[02:35] But what are your thoughts on

[02:37] what the actual young right

[02:39] is about these days?

[02:41] Well, I think the real fight

[02:43] that's erupted in the wake of Charlie

[02:45] Kirk's death

[02:46] was the entry of Nick Fuentes

[02:49] into the spotlight.

[02:50] And basically people who have neo-Nazi

[02:53] or neo-Nazi adjacent beliefs

[02:55] really driving the narrative

[02:57] among young people on the right wing.

[03:00] And in my mind,

[03:01] Charlie Kirk was actually sort of a dam

[03:04] against that.

[03:05] And one of the ironies in his death,

[03:07] is the rise in prominence

[03:09] and acceptance of Nick Fuentes,

[03:10] who hated Charlie Kirk and spent years

[03:13] basically attacking him and his movement.

[03:15] Let me tell you something.

[03:16] I am doing it for the kick,

[03:19] for the pleasure of wiping the smirk off

[03:24] of Charlie Kirk's

[03:25] fucking small, ugly face.

[03:28] I am hurtling towards you

[03:30] like a human missile

[03:32] to blow up this whole thing,

[03:35] and you're

[03:35] telling generation Z, “Buy

[03:37] a Hillsdale course, get a second job.

[03:41] Observe the Shabbos,

[03:42] go to Turning Point.” Fuck you.

[03:46] You are not ready for this.

[03:49] Yeah.

[03:49] So it's not been a galvanizing moment

[03:51] for MAGA and Trumpism.

[03:55] It's splitting them apart.

[03:56] It's causing some people

[03:57] to go further to the right.

[03:59] It's causing some people to freak out.

[04:01] It's

[04:02] a galvanizing moment for,

[04:03] basically, neo-Nazis.

[04:06] But I do want to kind of think about

[04:07] like what we're seeing on the ground

[04:10] as journalists,

[04:11] as reporters

[04:11] and just this fight going on among MAGA.

[04:15] If you turn on Fox News,

[04:17] you get none of this.

[04:19] All you get

[04:20] is this continued

[04:21] hagiography of Charlie Kirk

[04:23] and this notion that

[04:25] he's going to be

[04:25] this great, unifying

[04:27] figure that's going to bring

[04:28] all the young people

[04:29] on, and it's going to be

[04:30] the future,

[04:32] and it's all just glorious fascism

[04:33] from here on out.

[04:35] It was a warm reception

[04:37] in the middle of deep blue Manhattan,

[04:39] and I think this is a sign to come

[04:41] that if we meet voters,

[04:43] if we meet people

[04:44] where they're

[04:45] at with a convincing message,

[04:46] people are going to be receptive

[04:48] towards that.

[04:49] I just want to honor

[04:50] the life of Charlie Kirk.

[04:51] When we can walk into a gym

[04:53] or a frat house or,

[04:54] a conference, whatever it is,

[04:56] and we can present the truth,

[04:57] it's drawing

[04:58] people like we've never seen before

[05:00] because they're ready to no longer

[05:01] walk in the lies of the enemy,

[05:02] but the truth of Jesus Christ.

[05:04] Bible sales are up.

[05:05] We don't know if it's

[05:06] because the Charlie Kirk effect,

[05:07] whatever it is,

[05:08] or more people in the younger

[05:10] generation are going to church.

[05:11] Contemporary services

[05:12] are starting to become very popular.

[05:14] Look at these numbers.

[05:15] That's up 36% from last September.

[05:18] Well,

[05:18] I think it is a turning point

[05:20] in the Charlie Kirk effect.

[05:21] As you can see

[05:22] here, Fox News is selling this story

[05:25] that Charlie Kirk's death

[05:27] has caused this surge of religious fervor

[05:30] among young people,

[05:31] that people are buying Bibles.

[05:33] They're like,

[05:34] “Look, we're here in New York City,

[05:36] and all of these people

[05:37] are being converted

[05:38] by our Lord and Savior

[05:40] Charlie Kirk.” And,

[05:44] I'm not buying it.

[05:45] What are you seeing out there?

[05:47] Is any of this true?

[05:49] I actually spent some time with,

[05:51] the New York City

[05:52] Young Republicans over the summer.

[05:55] And there is, you know,

[05:56] a constituency of people

[05:57] who do kind of buy

[05:58] into the Charlie

[05:59] Kirk idea,

[06:01] that, you know,

[06:01] you're going to have a young

[06:02] right wing movement.

[06:03] That being said,

[06:04] you know,

[06:05] I think it's the sort of thing

[06:06] that gets a lot more attention,

[06:07] than maybe it deserves.

[06:10] And I also think that, you know,

[06:13] maybe the heyday of that

[06:14] was this past summer.

[06:16] This past spring,

[06:17] I think, young

[06:18] people have increasingly

[06:20] swung away from Republicans.

[06:21] And we saw that in these last elections,

[06:24] with young men,

[06:25] especially here in New York,

[06:26] swinging dramatically from 2024 to 2025.

[06:29] And, to say that

[06:30] en masse, young men

[06:31] and, are sticking with,

[06:34] the right wing,

[06:35] I just,

[06:35] I get the sense that

[06:36] that's sort of coming apart.

[06:38] You were with the Young Republicans,

[06:39] but those people have always existed,

[06:42] and nobody's

[06:43] denying that there are young people

[06:45] that are on the right.

[06:46] It's just

[06:47] this narrative

[06:48] is that there's a sense surge of energy

[06:51] and interest in it,

[06:52] and I just don't see any reason

[06:55] to believe that.

[06:56] The Bible thing is interesting

[06:57] because they're clinging to it.

[06:59] They're saying they got the statistics

[07:01] that Bible sales are up.

[07:03] Well, they're ignoring the fact that

[07:05] at the same time, in September of 2025,

[07:09] there was this craze on TikTok

[07:12] where a bunch of people were saying

[07:14] that the rapture was coming

[07:15] and that it was going to happen

[07:16] in September and read about it.

[07:18] That seems to me to be more logical,

[07:21] because it's a little bit of a leap like,

[07:22] Charlie Kirk dies, I buy a Bible, versus

[07:26] I saw this video

[07:27] that says the rapture is coming,

[07:29] “What is that?” I buy a Bible.

[07:30] They could be buying the Trump

[07:32] Bibles too,

[07:33] with the God

[07:33] bless the USA at the beginning of it.

[07:36] But I do agree with you, though, that,

[07:38] you know,

[07:38] the rapture

[07:39] panic seems a lot more directly

[07:41] connected to Bible sales than,

[07:42] Charlie Kirk.

[07:43] So I guess my question is,

[07:45] who is this for?, I

[07:50] assume this is just to

[07:51] convince an aging

[07:52] audience that they're in touch

[07:54] with the Youngs

[07:55] while actually doing

[07:57] absolutely nothing to help people.

[07:59] All they want is their boomer

[08:00] audience to believe

[08:01] that they're

[08:02] about to see all their grandkids

[08:04] just turn Republican.

[08:05] As president of the New York Young

[08:07] Republican Club,

[08:08] we have been tabling at colleges,

[08:10] most recently Baruch,

[08:11] and there are plenty of people

[08:13] that want to hear

[08:14] an alternative messaging

[08:15] than the indoctrination

[08:17] that is going on on college campuses.

[08:20] These students in Greek

[08:21] life have a platform.

[08:22] They have a lot of influence,

[08:23] and they have an awesome community.

[08:25] The biggest thing,

[08:25] and Charlie talked about this,

[08:26] he believed that improving the people's

[08:29] economic conditions

[08:30] specifically for young people,

[08:32] Gen Z, affordable housing,

[08:34] doing something about the debt

[08:35] crisis, that this was paramount.

[08:37] If you don't do something about that,

[08:39] they're going to turn to Marxism,

[08:40] they're going to turn to Mamdani.

[08:42] This is particularly sinister to me

[08:44] because they're talking about real issues

[08:47] that young people

[08:48] are actually facing

[08:49] and mental health issues,

[08:51] affordability issues.

[08:53] On any planet, was Charlie Kirk effective

[08:56] as a messenger on policies

[08:58] that were actually going

[08:59] to address these issues?

[09:01] You know, I wasn't a daily

[09:02] viewer of the Charlie Kirk show,

[09:04] but it strikes me that

[09:05] that's not what he was

[09:07] best known for,

[09:07] he was best known for culture

[09:09] war issues and,

[09:10] you know,

[09:11] owning a blue haired

[09:12] live on a college campus.

[09:14] I don't think he's known

[09:15] for robust economic policy.

[09:18] We've seen the Republican Party,

[09:20] while Charlie Kirk

[09:20] has been stumping for them, shift

[09:23] their economic thought one way.

[09:25] There another way.

[09:26] It just kind of is all over the place.

[09:28] Yeah.

[09:28] I mean,

[09:29] Republicans are taking away

[09:31] Obamacare subsidies,

[09:33] which disproportionately are needed

[09:36] by young people

[09:37] who fall into the salary range

[09:40] that they need a little bit of help.

[09:42] you know,

[09:43] they say Republicans

[09:43] have to speak to affordability.

[09:45] They don't have any actual ideas

[09:48] about what to do about it, though.

[09:49] And you've seen that with Trump himself.

[09:51] He's called it an affordability hoax.

[09:52] He was talking

[09:54] just the other day like the word

[09:55] affordability was invented,

[09:57] you know, in the past month or two.

[09:59] He would think that.

[10:02] I mean,

[10:02] the man has been very rich all his life,

[10:04] but he maybe he just heard the word

[10:06] for the first time.

[10:07] It's possible,

[10:08] Yeah, I would like somebody

[10:09] to teach Donald Trump the word “budget.”

[10:12] Not in terms of a government budget,

[10:14] but the thing that people

[10:15] have in their household.

[10:16] Blow his fucking mind.

[10:19] I you know, this

[10:20] strikes me as the sort of story

[10:21] that they just put on

[10:22] because they're not going to talk about

[10:24] what's leading,

[10:25] you know, other

[10:25] mainstream outlets, right, this is.

[10:28] This is up on Fox News

[10:29] so that they don't have to talk about,

[10:31] something else

[10:32] that that is certainly more important

[10:34] or more relevant to people's lives,

[10:35] but does not sort of

[10:36] fit into the Fox News.

[10:38] You know, worldview.

[10:39] I think that's so smart.

[10:40] The turning point USA team, honoring

[10:43] Charlie Kirk's memory

[10:44] at the UFC 322

[10:45] by handing out

[10:46] more than 3000 freedom shirts.

[10:48] We had no idea

[10:49] if people would want them,

[10:52] if we could even get 3000.

[10:53] We handed out all 3000 in just one hour.

[10:57] You needed more.

[10:58] Students at a Rhode Island

[10:59] high school are launching

[11:00] a Turning Point

[11:01] USA chapter

[11:02] after a social studies

[11:03] teacher called Charlie Kirk “garbage.”

[11:06] What do you expect to accomplish

[11:07] when you get the green light,

[11:09] we hope it's going to be eventually,

[11:10] to start this chapter?

[11:12] What do you hope to

[11:12] accomplish in doing this?

[11:15] Yeah, so we hope to set up a

[11:16] safe space where conservatives

[11:18] and liberals can come together

[11:20] and talk about their beliefs

[11:23] openly, freely.

[11:25] Charlie. Charlie.

[11:27] Charlie.

[11:27] We're going to fight

[11:28] for freedom in New York City.

[11:30] The urban right is going to come back up

[11:32] because we can't submit.

[11:34] It was about showing

[11:35] that we are not afraid to go

[11:37] anywhere, to be anywhere,

[11:38] and to just hand out

[11:39] free shirts to anybody.

[11:42] I think you could hand out

[11:44] 3000 of anything,

[11:45] outside Madison

[11:47] Square Garden in an hour

[11:48] to be totally honest.

[11:50] And the other thing

[11:50] that strikes me about this video

[11:52] is that there crowd footage,

[11:54] it's like a few dozen people

[11:55] and they're outside of Madison

[11:56] Square Garden during UFC event.

[11:58] That's not that big of a crowd, No.

[12:01] If you walk by Madison

[12:03] Square Garden

[12:03] after an UFC event,

[12:04] it's like usually a madhouse.

[12:07] by Madison Square Garden

[12:08] earlier today and it

[12:10] there were

[12:11] that many people outside of it.

[12:12] One thing that really struck me in

[12:14] these clips

[12:15] is that the teenagers

[12:17] that started a TP USA club

[12:20] at their high school,

[12:21] and they said they wanted it

[12:23] to be a space where conservatives

[12:24] and liberals come together

[12:26] as if it was a debate club.

[12:27] That is not what TP USA clubs are about.

[12:30] What do they actually do in real life?

[12:33] kind of,

[12:34] their main schtick

[12:34] is reporting on professors

[12:37] who they believe are

[12:38] leftists or spreading ideas

[12:40] that are incongruent

[12:41] with their worldview.

[12:42] I've definitely spoken

[12:43] to a lot of professors,

[12:45] who have expressed to me

[12:47] over and over again

[12:48] recently that they feel

[12:50] this climate of fear

[12:52] on campus,

[12:52] that they're increasingly

[12:54] being taped

[12:54] by people, students often,

[12:56] who are associated with TP USA,

[12:59] who then distort

[13:01] what they're saying and try to make

[13:02] it sound like it's

[13:03] a leftist indoctrination,

[13:04] and then they get in trouble.

[13:06] The other thing I you know,

[13:07] I thought was kind of interesting about,

[13:09] you know,

[13:09] they're talking about

[13:10] how this is a grassroots movement

[13:12] or what have you, is that

[13:13] that's actually really not what TP USA is

[13:16] or has been historically.

[13:18] It kind of comes out of Charlie

[13:20] Kirk feeling

[13:21] disillusioned on a college campus

[13:23] because he was presented

[13:24] with ideas

[13:24] that didn't immediately

[13:26] cohere, to his worldview or

[13:28] And so he got connected

[13:29] with, basically a rich guy

[13:31] to astroturf this thing.

[13:33] And I think that's actually reflected

[13:35] in what we're seeing with what Fox News

[13:37] is trying to do right here.

[13:38] The most obvious example of that is the

[13:41] guy with the Jesus King t shirt,

[13:44] and he's like, “I swear,

[13:45] guys, there's this

[13:48] the sweep of Christian fervor

[13:50] across the frat houses of America.”

[13:53] And I'm like, “How dumb

[13:56] do you think your viewers are?”

[13:58] You're like, “Yeah, we gave up the kegger

[14:00] and now we have Bible study.”

[14:02] Well,

[14:02] one of the things

[14:03] that they were trying to sell people on

[14:04] is it's like it's rebellious

[14:06] to love the president.

[14:07] And I just like loving the president's

[14:09] not cool.

[14:09] It doesn't really matter

[14:11] who the president is.

[14:12] It's not cool to love politicians.

[14:14] It's not cool to be a Republican.

[14:16] It never will be.

[14:19] Alright, we have one more clip for you.

[14:21] What we've watched is a lot of Fox News

[14:23] trying to do sunshine

[14:24] and and rainbows

[14:25] and trying to give you positivity.

[14:27] But this is Fox News,

[14:30] they have to have an enemy.

[14:31] We're either going to get MAGA

[14:33] or we're going to get Marxism,

[14:35] and Charlie talked about that a lot.

[14:36] It sounds like you teachers

[14:37] faculty is not supporting it,

[14:38] but you guys got to bulldoze through it.

[14:40] That's part of the message

[14:41] of Turning Point.

[14:42] You expect the resistance,

[14:43] but what you want to do

[14:44] is start a dialog.

[14:45] Of course,

[14:45] we had a couple of passers

[14:47] by who were none too

[14:48] pleased with the shirts,

[14:49] that I was handing out the shirts.

[14:50] They showed us their favorite finger

[14:52] as they walked by,

[14:53] but we made sure to pray for them.

[14:55] We made sure to honor Charlie's legacy

[14:59] by trying to engage

[15:00] in some sort of conversation.

[15:01] But it just shows

[15:03] how vitriolic the left is.

[15:05] They no longer want to debate

[15:07] in good faith.

[15:08] They're looking to completely dominate,

[15:10] and they're looking to laugh

[15:11] in the face of their enemies,

[15:12] even if that's political assassination.

[15:15] It really makes you wonder

[15:16] if these people's minds

[15:18] who think that way and have it in them

[15:20] to to say

[15:20] these vile things and remarks,

[15:22] if their minds can be rehabilitated.

[15:24] It does make you wonder.

[15:26] So I'm from the South,

[15:28] I'm going to say right now,

[15:30] “I'll pray for

[15:31] you,” is southern for “fuck

[15:35] you.”

[15:36] You do wonder who's

[15:37] minds are going to be rehabilitated to

[15:39] I just in all of this,

[15:41] you know, you wonder,

[15:42] are these tp USA guys?

[15:43] Are they ever going to become,

[15:45] you know, well-adjusted adults?

[15:47] Charlie Kirk

[15:48] was probably the oldest of the TP,

[15:49] USA, people, and he was in his 30s.

[15:52] You know,

[15:52] I'm curious

[15:53] to see what these guys look like

[15:54] when they turn 40 or 50 or,

[15:56] you know, just what happens,

[15:58] what becomes of all these guys.

[15:59] So you did the on the ground

[16:02] reporting on how much the websites

[16:04] that were built after

[16:05] Charlie Kirk's death

[16:06] have kind of started to fall apart.

[16:09] When you watch these clips from Fox News,

[16:11] have you learned anything

[16:13] about what they're trying

[16:13] to make out of all this?

[16:16] I kind of

[16:16] feel like Charlie Kirk in a weird

[16:18] way, was the Keystone

[16:20] like holding the whole MAGA

[16:22] coalition together

[16:23] but Fox News is desperately

[16:24] trying to fill that gap.

[16:26] Talking talking about him

[16:28] and insisting that, you know,

[16:30] nothing's really changed since,

[16:32] since his death.

[16:33] And I just, you know,

[16:35] that's just not borne out in reality.

[16:37] I think that's really accurate.

[16:39] Thank you again, Russell,

[16:40] for being on the show.

[16:41] And you should go over to Salon,

[16:42] his name is Russell Payne,

[16:44] he has so much great

[16:45] reporting for us at Salon.

[16:47] Thank you again

[16:47] for being on “Standing Room Only.”

[16:49] Thanks for having me.

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