Charlie Kirk Shot at Utah Valley University Rally in Critical Condition After Neck Injury During Campus Tour

right now. This is a live um a live shot at Tempenogus Regional Hospital there right in Orum and uh that is where Charlie Kirk was taken. >> Yeah, we just talked to uh our reporter Leslie Dewarte a little while ago and she said that there's a a big police presence there at the hospital as well. Even uh while she was talking with us, there were even more uh law enforcement vehicles that had streamed there to the hospital. Uh, as far as Charlie Kur's condition is concerned, we have not had any information on that yet. He was taken there for care. We assume that he was uh from uh the accounts that we hear from witnesses, he was shot in the neck, and that's what uh some people have posted. >> Uh everybody there that we've heard from has said there was one pop. They only heard one shot and we aren't getting word of anyone else being injured. Um they did there were people screaming run after they did hear the shot. We saw some video on Twitter somebody who was up way up in the stands who was recording and then you could hear the shot. You couldn't see what happened under the tent where Charlie Kirk was speaking but uh you could hear everybody dropping what they were doing and turning and running. Then the the the shot went blurry after that. >> Yeah. The the video we were looking at in fact CBS has used that video. uh you hear the pop and the person who was recording it did I don't think realize what had happened you know for a couple seconds and then it was like >> uh panic uh people were told to uh drop and then told to run. So if you can imagine if you were there uh there was chaos and fear for sure >> and you can see this is a live look at the hospital there. They did have our crew move back. They did have our crew move off the hospital property and that's to make room for the investigators, the detectives, the FBI, you know, everybody's going to be on the scene there to to talk to those who were close to Charlie Kirk when the shooting happened. >> Yeah. And again, that is a look at the emergency vehicles there uh in front of the UVU campus. And there were hundreds of people maybe thousands in attendance to this uh get together this afternoon. And you know this is also it just kind of occurred to me a tough time when you think of okay the anniversary of 911 >> tomorrow >> and tomorrow and we have a lot of people obviously who pay tribute and remember that and now we have this tragedy on our doorstep. >> Yes. And it's a national story as well. CBS News broke in just a few minutes ago to report on the shooting. They're working to get confirmation as well, but from the people we're hearing from on campus at UVU, uh Charlie Kirk was shot, this rally, I think it started this morning and it was running into the noon hour. Um and that's when it happened. We got word of it just about a quarter to one uh when we were on our >> I think it started right about noon. So now as far as traffic goes uh around the university there looks like it is flowing uh pretty smoothly despite what has happened there. Uh we'll kind of watch that for you too. But uh right now all thoughts are on Charlie Kirk, his condition, uh the circumstances around that. Uh we have not heard anything from the hospital. Don't have an update on his condition. And we've been hearing from uh political leaders across the state, even the president as we pointed out there. Uh a lot of people in shock as a result of this and it happened here in Utah at UVU. >> Uh it is conservative political activist Charlie Kirk, a well-known name, and it this was his American comeback tour at UVU. Uh this is our uh photojournalist Mike Steven uh right outside the stadium there at Utah Valley University. And he was doing his prove me wrong campaign where he invited people to come up on stage and argue with him, try to prove him wrong. And he was known for arguing his point and his conservative activism and defending himself very well like a lawyer. And uh we understand he's a young father, 31 years old. um and prayers coming in from all across the country and around the world for Charlie Kirk. >> Yeah, he challenged people to try to stump him. You know, I guess it was somewhat of a sport too with what he does, but uh more importantly, you know, he was driving home his cause, his political beliefs and uh as we've seen today, there are people who take really strong sides uh issues on both sides. As I mentioned, there was a petition circulating there that they didn't want Charlie Kirk to come to campus, but he did doesn't back down with those kinds of things. And then, of course, we've seen what has happened here today. >> And such a polarizing figure that some many didn't want him to come, but obviously many did and they showed up at that rally this morning. And uh again, we heard about security. Um it he's not on any uh board or cabinet for the president. >> Yeah, he doesn't get Secret Service protection obviously. Um sec security is up to these campuses that he visits. Not sure. I'm sure we'll be finding out more about what security measures were in place for his visit. Even knowing that he is polarizing and that uh there are sometimes some pretty hothead uh political debates going on. But we we don't have an idea of what kind of security measures. I'm sure that there were some, but sometimes there's not you can't do everything and be everywhere at once. >> It might be like a football game. Yeah, >> it might be the same kind of security that they would expect to be at that outdoor arena. Um that was a nice sunny day this morning. Um as things got started there in Oram. >> We have uh Brian Malay headed down there too. He's probably in the area by now. I don't know if there have been uh traffic problems there, but Brian of course Brian has a great political depth too and I'm sure you can uh give us some insight on uh this as far as you know the political leanings are concerned and how it's such a hot topic between uh what we've seen with u with his political views, conservative political views and how it can sometimes rub the wrong way on the o opposite side of the spectrum. Yeah, Brian's been covering politics here in Utah for decades. He's wellconed and uh is probably hearing from people as he heads south from Salt Lake City. And if you're just tuning in, Charlie Kirk, a conservative political activist at a rally at Utah Valley University, was shot this afternoon. A suspect is in custody. Utah Valley University sent out an alert to say that he he was shot on the campus there and that a suspect is in custody. And that's about all they said. They didn't release much more information about how severe the injury might be, if the campus is on lockdown or what's going on right now. >> And he is at the hospital right now. And I'm sure there are a lot of uh protocols, procedures you have to go through. And of course, as you can imagine, his family right now after getting this news uh just devastated. So, uh, first and foremost, it is Charlie Kirk's health, how he's doing, and his family at a time like this. >> Yeah, we do have, uh, team coverage for you. Uh, it's 1:43 this afternoon. We're used to saying the time on the morning news and, uh, but we do have team coverage. We have Brian on his way there. We have Leslie Dwarte at Tempenogus Hospital where Mr. Kirk was taken after being shot. Uh we have Kristen McPeek at the live desk uh gathering some reaction from around the country. Um we have Mike Steven right here. This is his live camera right outside the stadium there. Um we can tell people are kind of uh stacked up around there. They we haven't seen any traffic going in or out of the the campus. >> I'm sure that portion of the campus is closed off. and uh our photojournalist Mike Steven there. We we actually did talk with him a few minutes ago from what he was seeing, but he was uh down there pretty quickly. Uh we also have uh Heidi Hatch here in the studio, too. Hopefully, we can grab her in a few minutes. Uh she is another uh political expert, I think, in terms of uh how this all plays out. So, we have uh coverage coming up for you through uh out the day here as we pull our sources together. >> Yeah, Heidi also connected as a mom. Her son was in the arena when this happened. So, uh we'll get a definite panic situation from a a mom way too close. Um Mary and Ron, thank you. Right now, we actually had an interview that was scheduled with Senator John Curtis, and he's joining us live right now. We're not going to be discussing the issues we had slated today. There's a lot of issues going on in Washington DC. Uh Senator Curtis, can you hear us right now? >> I sure can, Heidi. Yeah, >> thanks for joining us. Uh I was looking forward to our conversation today about a lot of the issues in Washington budgets, but right now uh we're on the air with live breaking news about the shooting at UVU campus. My son and thousands of others were there live when this happened. Give me your reaction um of what we're seeing today in our political climate and what happened here in Utah today. Well, first of all, uh to your son, to the the thousands and thousands that were there, my my my my heart just aches. And of course, uh to the victim, that just is just something that is I can't quite comprehend. I think to answer your question, for me, this is different because this is my backyard, right? We we've seen these things happen around the country and I always think, well, that will never happen to me. That'll never happen in Utah when it happens so close to home. I think it has an impact that couldn't happen any other way. >> You are the former mayor of Provo. Like you said, Utah County is home to you. Utah Valley University, a growing university and the largest student body um that we have here in the state of Utah right now. Charlie Kirk has had some people that have been saying that they didn't want him there, starting uh some petitions before he started these campus tours, but he goes to our campuses to have conversations with young people about politics and they debate and have a conversation. Are you concerned that this is going to put a stop to conversations with our young people like this? >> I listen, it's has to impact it, but we can't let it. On the other hand, um it I'm I'm not going to lie, this is going to go through my mind right when I'm doing public events. But I think we all have to push past that and realize uh that we are better than this and we have to have these conversations. This was a very important political conversation for Utah Valley and one that we need to have and there are many more out there. Conversations we need to have. We need to come to terms with our differences, but that we can't allow this to happen and we can't allow this to stop us from having these conversations. >> As we're speaking right now, the Associated Press uh just pushed out information about the shooting, saying that Charlie Kirk is listed in critical condition. He's in the hospital uh in Utah County right now. Senator, uh we saw last it's been more than a year. President Trump uh had an attempt on his life, not once but twice. Uh the second possible shooter was in court today. Is there a way to break this cycle where we can get away as violence is the option if we disagree with someone? >> Listen, we we we must and I I reexpress my commitment to address this in a way that deescalates and not escalates this. But I think there's there's too many who are actually escalating this political angst, this violence that that we're seeing. Uh it's not who we are. And this is why this is so impactful to me. It's especially not who we are in Utah. >> After an event like this, mental health is going to be an issue for students on our campus that witness this. My son saying that there was thousands of students there standing around the stage when this happened. There's also going to be calls for talking about the Second Amendment. Where does the conversation in your mind go from here? Well, I think the questions you've asked are the right questions to ask. This is I mean, we can have the conversations about mental health. We can have the the conversations about firearms, but we really have to change the way that we're addressing and talking about issues and those that we disagree with. I I think we probably all know families who have heated conversations at the dinner table that shouldn't be the type of conversations that we're having within families. Of course, we can disagree. Of course we can debate. Of course we can would argue. But but the level of angst that's that's surfacing even within our own families and among friends is just a really bad place to be. >> Utah has had a difficult time over the last couple of weeks. A lot of trauma and tragedies we've been dealing with. Uh just a couple of weeks ago we had two Totten officers, Tmont and Garland, that were shot and killed in the line of duty. A third one who survived with the Boxelder County Sheriff's Office. You were able to honor them today. I'm sad that we're even talking about the fact that while we're honoring a tragedy that happened two weeks ago, we're talking about another today. >> So, thank you for bringing that up because I I would hate for this to get lost in the news today. I had this amazing honor of laying a wreath on on on the tomb of the unknown soldier. And what's so important is that we are honoring in Washington DC not those just who die on battlefields across the globe, but those right at home. I mean, it was just a tremendous honor for me. I spoke on on that Senate floor and would not want that to get lost in the news of today. >> What do you want the Tmont and Garland communities to know? >> So, listen, first of all, thank you to these two individuals who lost their life and their families and all the officers not just in that department, but across the state, across the country who put their life at risk at all the all the time. And what I would want them to know is I'm going to do all I can to make sure we don't forget their sacrifice and and that we learn from it and that we make ourselves stronger because of it. >> Senator John Curtis, thank you so much for joining us today. I'll let you have the final word here today. We'll save the topics we had planned for another day when it feels a little more appropriate. Anything else you'd want people back in your district back home to know about? >> Yeah, listen, my heart goes out uh to to Charlie. I I the fact that he's in critical condition actually gives me a little bit of hope that he'll be okay. I I I hope hope that he will. My heart goes out to really everybody was there as you mentioned. They they too are victims today and uh I hope Utah can quickly heal and move on to be the great state that we know that we are. >> All right. Senator John Curtis joining us from the Russell Rotunda on the complex there of the Capitol today in Washington DC. Thanks so much for your time. Thank >> uh >> Heidi, thank you very much. Uh something else we're just learning right now that you need to know about regarding the shooting that's happened at UVU today. The Alpine School District now says five of their schools have been placed in a secure protocol. They've sent the following message out to parents of students at those schools. >> Yeah. Five different schools. As they say, your school is in a secure protocol, which means we have brought everyone inside, locked exterior doors and accounted for all students. There is no need for you to call or come to the school. We will send more information as it becomes available. So, they say the kids are all safe. This is just a precaution. >> Yeah, just a precaution. You always air on the side of uh safety. And uh at this point, we should say that the suspect was taken into custody just moments after the shooting at UVU. So there's not that worry or threat to the community at least that we know of. >> Yeah. The schools nearby that were on that protocol are Oram Elementary, Cherry Hill Elementary, Westmore Elementary, Lacage Junior High, and Vineyard Elementary. Those are the five that have put on a a sort of secure protocol, but they say everybody's okay. And again, the suspect was taken into custody. But now there are FBI agents swarming the area and and people in SWAT local police offic. >> Okay, we want to uh go back to the hospital right now. This is Tonogus Regional Hospital and we did have an update with them just moments ago that uh Charlie Kirk is in critical condition. Let's get to our reporter Leslie Dwarte there. And uh what else have you found out since being there, Leslie? Mary Ron, this information is still developing. I'm getting that information just as the newsroom is getting it as well. We can confirm Charlie Kirk is in critical condition at Tempenovis Regional Hospital where he is being treated. I'll describe the scene as I step away from the area so you can take a closer look as to what is happening. This is where I'm at in front of the hospital, the emergency room straight ahead. There's the entrance has been taped off. There's several police cars. moments ago, I saw people being escorted under that tape into the emergency room. Um, but other than that, this scene is pretty much very tight with security as we know that Charlie is being treated in that area. I've reached out to media relations in the hospital to get more information as to what's happening. We don't have that yet. But throughout my time here, I've also seen people arriving almost knowing uh something was happening, whether they knew who Charlie was or had heard of him. Even on the road, some people commenting um supporting and hoping well for Charlie. Um this is a still a very active scene. Charlie is a very uh popular uh political figure and certainly is catching the attention of a lot of people as they are concerned for his well-being. Right now, this is all we know that he is in critical condition and as soon as we get more information, I will bring that to you. Mary Ron, back to you in the studio. >> All right. Uh Lesie, thank you very much for that. Uh our Brian Mlehey is now on scene at UVU. He's our political correspondent and we want to get uh right to Brian at the university there. Brian, thanks so much for joining us and we really do want your perspective, but you are talking to some of the kids there. >> Yeah, we have already. We've talked to we've talked to some people who were there when the shots happened. One of them is Don uh Don Gilbertson. Uh so, what did you see when you were in the quad today as Charlie Kirk was making his presentation? Yeah. So, I was probably third or fourth row and people were in front of me. So, I could hear him, but I couldn't really see him very well. Then all of a sudden, we hear I hear one gunshot. And then everyone's everyone starts running, right? Because there's a gunshot. And I'm running and I'm running. And then I escaped thankfully and I'm safe. But I couldn't see I did not see him personally. I did not see the gunshot. I did not see him go back because people were in front of me. >> But you're very close to the stage with him, right? It was there was like three or four rows, but then um there's quite a bit of a distance like in between that. So, it's like still a good distance away. >> Did you hear where the shot came from? >> It sounded like it was it was from in back of us and above us. That's what I would say. >> Did you see the shooter? >> I did not. >> Did you see what happened to Charlie Kirk after the shot was fired? >> I did not see what happened to him after the shot was fired. No. >> Okay. And people are running all over the place. What did you do? I was running with my I was with my friend and I was running with him and yeah, we just ran out. We just ran out and we got to safety. That's all that really happened. I just ran with him. >> And And what are you seeing as you're running away from this chaotic scene? >> I see some people crying. I see some people screaming. I see some people tripping over themselves because just surprised everyone. >> So this was in the quad. It was outside. >> Correct. Yeah. >> When you went into this uh to this area, did anybody check you? Did you have to give them a backpack or did you see any metal detectors? >> No, I could just walk in and I just called my friend said, "Hey, where you at?" And I walked in and everyone just pulled up like any social event really. >> Did you have a ticket? >> No, anyone could just walk on. >> Anybody could walk in and you were able to get pretty close even without a ticket or without planning this much in advance. >> Yeah, I was close. Yeah. >> Okay. So, so then you're outside and what are people saying? What's the scene at that point >> like after just right >> after after it happens you you run from the quad people are tripping o over each other and then what >> yeah so some people did see the shot and they said he got shot in the neck he got shot in the neck one person told me that he saw it personally I couldn't confirm it at that point because I didn't see it but people were saying he got shot in the neck he got shot in the neck >> did you wait around and see police officers or any emergency medical teams arrive >> yeah when I was we were walking and running out police were very there very promptly they Okay. And what about an ambulance and and Charlie Kirk being taken away in an ambulance? Did you see that? >> I didn't see that because I was just trying to get out of there very quickly. >> The fact that this happens at this school, you've been This is your second year here at UVU. Yes, sir. Right. >> Um the fact that it would happen anywhere is tragic. The fact that it happens where you go to school is what >> it's crazy. I mean, you hear about these things on the news and then I never thought in my life that I'd be one to actually stand there when something like that would happen. >> You were pretty close. >> Fairly. Yeah. >> All right. Um, safe place here. >> I I think overall UV is a safe place. Incidents happen and it's tragic this happened. We should always take precautions, but once school opens up, I I'm going to go to school. >> Were you aware of the uh people who were protesting his visit here? I mean, I saw some people who certainly didn't like him, but I didn't expect, you know, that like a gunshot to go out, but I saw some people who disagreed with him. >> Yeah. Do you remember what he was talking about? What what the debate was over when the shot happened? >> Yes. So, a person approached him and said, they said, "How many shootings are done by people who are transgender?" And then he said, "Too many." And then the debate, I didn't remember all the debate after that, but they were debating about gun violence. And then 30 seconds after they start debating this, a gunshot goes off. >> So the first question is about how many shootings are done by trans people. >> It wasn't the first question. They were talking about something just about something else before that. But that was a question. >> That was a question. And that that was before the gunfire. >> Yeah. Right as they start talking. >> And then and then Charlie Kirk is talking about gun violence in general. I to be honest it was I could only hear so much of it because it was kind of the microphones weren't the best. >> So after he said too much about like you know school shoot I mean shootings of people who are transgender I couldn't really hear what was happening after that too well. It was just kind of like I just couldn't really hear it. >> So So there's that. And then is the person that he's speaking with because he does a lot of debating with college students, right? um is the person he's speaking with uh you know engaging with him at that point going back and forth I could hear a little back and forth I couldn't hear specifically what was happening being said but there's some back and forth yeah >> frightening to you >> in the moment to be honest I was just confused I to what was going on I was just like wait what's happening so to be honest my first emotions or feelings were just confusion >> and that was what a lot of people were thinking >> I would think so I would think they Yeah. Just confused like no one expected this to just happen. >> Yeah. How quickly did the whole quad >> immediately clear out? >> Once we heard that, everyone was just started. >> It was like instant instantaneous. Okay. Did you see any police officers in the crowd just sort of standing watch uh earlier in the event? >> I did not I did not see that. No. And when you went into the quad again, there was no checkpoint and there were no no security or no police officers there either. >> There was no checkpoint. >> There was nothing >> that you could tell. >> So, and if there were police, I don't I I'm just saying that's what I didn't see. I don't know if there were or not. I just I didn't personally see any. >> All right. Well, Dylan Don, thank you uh very much for speaking with us. We've talked to a number of people here who have uh who have been on campus or were at the event itself. I spoke to one man who is a candidate for office in a a local community in Utah County. He said he did see the bullet strike uh Charlie Kirk because there was blood coming from Kirk's neck. This is according to uh this this individual. Um after that he's not sure exactly what happened because as Don just told us they cleared everybody out very very quickly. Uh so we we also spoke to a woman here who recounted text messages that came out from the university very very soon after the shooting and it basically said you got to get off campus. and she said there were police officers, professors, just anyone who had authority really trying to shepherd people away from campus, get them off campus, and that has happened. Um, and we're not going any further than right here for the time being. Um, we're on the south end of campus right now. We we understand that police have a presence over on the ball fields. They want to talk to us over there. That's probably a mile, mile and a half away. So, we'll get there uh as soon as we can. But we've seen a stream of cars leave. We've talked to people who have uh who were there. Uh this was a chilling scene. And as you heard just now from him, the question was about shootings by trans individuals. And then uh there was a a question and maybe some exchanges about gun violence, perhaps gun control. We don't know. And then the shot was fired. So we are, as I mentioned, on the south end of the campus. We're going to try to get a little bit more information. will be back with you >> for now at UVU. Brian Mlehey, KUTV2 News. >> Okay, >> Brian, thanks so much. And we don't know the exact count of people at the rally today because they didn't sell tickets. It just appears it was an open >> There's probably a few there at least in that quad. >> Yeah. But we did want to point out uh they talked about the petition that they they had a petition going around on campus that they didn't want him to come and 6,700 people signed that petition before the rally from in in the weeks prior saying please don't bring him here. He's too polarizing. >> Um and obviously >> something happened >> and well he's he probably has that all the time wherever he goes. His next uh engagement was supposed to be at Colorado State on the 18th. So, you know, he just started the tour here at UVU. >> And then I think he was supposed to come back to Utah on September 20th looking at the schedule. But hey, right now, um right in this area here, our photojournalist, Mike Steven, is on the ground for us to continue our team coverage. And uh Mike, we understand you're talking with someone who was there. Oh, okay. Okay. We're >> Okay. So, we we don't have that for you. >> We're needing to preview the person he's talking to, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. If you are just joining us this afternoon, uh UVU is getting uh national attention and not in a good way today because Charlie Kirk has been shot at the UVU campus and right now the latest on his condition is that he is in critical condition and apparently shot in the neck. >> Yeah, this is a live look. We're right outside Tempenogus Regional Hospital there in Oram. a beautiful hospital facility and right now it's surrounded with law enforcement uh detectives um and supporters of Charlie Kirk. Again, he was speaking at Utah Valley University uh the American Comeback Tour is what it's called and he challenges people to come up and and debate him. It's called his Prove Me Wrong stage. Uh he was dressed in a t-shirt sitting on stage under a one of those pop-up tents with the prove me wrong and American comeback logos around as he uh as people lined up to come up on stage and ask him questions and debate him on the issues and he defends his position. >> Yeah. And we've had reaction all across the country. uh the president of the United States had also on truth social asking the nation to pray for him that he is uh a a a good man from top to bottom I think is the way he put it and uh god bless Charlie Kirk >> 31-year-old married father of two uh people reacting from across the country right now we want to check back in with Kristen McPeek at the live desk for more reaction >> yes been going through lots of reaction here. Um, first off, we are hearing from Pete Hegsth. He is the United States Secretary of Defense. Um, his tweet right here should be on your screen. We should be seeing that. Um, if you can't see it right now, um, it just says that prayers for Charlie Kirk, an incredible Christian American and human being. May the healing hand of Jesus Christ be upon him. We also have Eric Trump. Um, Donald Trump's son. Charlie Kirk is a great friend and an amazing person. Laura Luke Carolina and I will be praying for him, his wife Erica, and their two children. Of course, that's from his family to Charlie's family. Also have local politicians, Mike Lee. I'm tracking the situation closely. Please join me in praying for Charlie Kirk and the students gathered there. That's another thing that we're learning a lot about is um you know this could this is very traumatic for students who were there and could possibly change the future of speaking events like this. Governor Cox has been briefed by law enforcement following the violence directed at Charlie Kirk. Um we've talked about Cox's um response so far in this show. Um we will continue to share updates. That's what the governor is saying. Those responsibly responsible will be fully held accountable. Violence has no place in our public life. Americans of every political persuasion must untie unite in condemning this act. Our prayers are with Charlie, his family, and all those affected. And we're seeing senators from all across the country, representatives all chiming in on this event. Um, this one from Senator Dave McCormack of Pennsylvania. Um, family is just praying for Charlie and his family. And so, uh, we'll keep going through everything. The latest right now is Charlie is in critical condition. I've been watching Turning Point, which is Charlie Kirk's organization. I've been watching their social media as well. They have not commented publicly on this that I have seen. So, I'm going to keep an eye on this and I'll bring you any new latest updates that we find. >> Charlie Kirk, who's one of the founders of the Turning Point organization, a very conservative group. Uh, they have a podcast and a show that they put on and discuss their opinions. And now he takes it on the road as well for rallies like this one in Utah. I was uh looking at uh CNN and they actually have the exchange that took place uh >> oh the debate >> of the debate right before the shooting happened. It's uh and again this is CNN says seconds before Charlie Kirk was shot. He was heard on video answering a question about transgender mass shootings in America. We've talked about that. An audience member asked, "Do you know how many transgender Americans have been mass shooters over the last 10 years?" He said, "Too many." Kirk said, "Too many." The same audience member went on to say, "The number is five." And proceeded to ask if Kirk knows how many mass shooters there have been in America over the last 10 years. And Kirk said, "Counting or not counting gang violence." And then seconds later, the sound of a pop is heard. The crowd screams, Kirk falls, and then of course uh people run from the quad. We're talking thousands of people, >> thousands of people gathered there today and uh panic really throughout the stadium there. Um we've heard from uh Heidi Hatch, our evening anchor and political correspondent. She her son was there and uh called her immediately and said, "This is what just happened." And as a mom, you just freak out. Oh yeah. >> But uh he was close enough to the stage that he was able to see the blood and saw uh Charlie Kirk kind of reel back when he got hit. So that is pretty scary for anyone and all the people who were there. But uh like we heard from the one uh student that uh Brian Mlehey talked to. He was only three rows back and he didn't have a view of it. It was just a little bit farther away. We saw some of the gates up. We had the video. Um I think we might still have that video that CBS had. They freeze it right as the shooting happens, but you can see how big the crowd is. And then we have video also of the crowd scattering and running out after they heard that one pop. >> Right. What we're seeing here from that UD do camera, uh, lot of emergency personnel, law enforcement, and and that will probably look that way for quite some time. Uh, some new information. Utah Valley University has closed its campus. I think Brian pretty much alluded to that in his live shot a few moments ago. And they are cancelling classes until further notice. Uh don't know for sure if that's going to go through tomorrow or not, >> but we'll see. >> Yeah. And the Alpine School District let us know that there are five schools nearby, elementary and uh middle school, junior highs right nearby. Five schools. They sent out a notice that they put them in a sort of lockdown where all the kids are safe inside, but they're not letting anyone in or out as the investigation. The kids are all okay. They tell parents, "Don't call, don't come. There's nothing wrong. We're just doing this as a precaution." So, Alpine School District, one of the largest the the largest school district in the state, um encompasses the UVU area. >> Yeah. Precautionary move. school probably will be letting out oh within the hour maybe sooner than that I would assume in the Alpine School District. >> Uh some other people weighing in that I'm reading here. Eric Trump. >> Uh he says Charlie Kirk is a great friend, an amazing person. Laura Luke Carolina and I will be praying for him as his wife Erica for their his wife Erica and two children. And if you can imagine, uh, the family has going through a lot right now. Okay. Donald Trump Jr. said, "Charlie Kirk is one of the finest humans I know. Everyone, please lift him and his family up in prayers." That was on X. >> Yeah, we're just learning more about Charlie Kirk. I mean, he's been a very uh prominent political figure for years uh in President Trump's corner as he was campaigning, as he was on trial in New York. Uh Charlie Kirk was one of his defenders. He is not on a cabinet or a White House position though. He is an adviser to the president and a friend. So he wasn't assigned security. He wasn't assigned um the secret service or any extra security like that. Just his regular team uh when they came go on a tour like this. >> Yeah. As we said before, uh, a lot of universities have these types of speakers that come through for symposium, seminars, or uh, uh, opportunities to >> question and someone like Charlie Kirk. And, uh, but they don't really have, uh, tight security and we've been talking about that. Uh, we have another reaction coming in from House Speaker Mike Johnson. He says, uh, "Pray for our good friend Charlie Kirk." So, almost instantaneously, uh, this story spread. CBS News was on the air, uh, not long after the shooting happened and did have real thorough coverage on what was going on. So he is a figure nationally known and uh certainly with President Trump in office uh they are very close uh allies and uh like you said uh probably a coffee. >> Yes. And uh again we point out that there were thousands at this rally and it was an open open entrance so you didn't they didn't have to buy or reserve tickets. People were just allowed in. Um it didn't appear that there was any type of security screening either for the UVU campus there. Um our uh Brian Malay talked to one of the students who was there. In fact, he was just about three rows back from the the stage uh when Charlie Kirk was shot. And again, we do have confirmation uh that he was shot in the neck and he is in critical condition at Tempenogus Regional Hospital. >> Okay. Hey, now Kirk was on tour and uh this stop at Utah Utah Valley University was actually the first of at least uh 14 scheduled tours uh that he was going to college campuses across the country this fall. So this was the kickoff today. >> We haven't seen any movement here uh other than on the roadway there right outside the stadium. All of the cars there, police blocked in. There's a fire truck there. Um, nobody's moving in or out right now. So, the campus uh basically on lockdown and but but again uh there was one shot and one person is in custody. In fact, UVU said the suspect is in custody. Uh but they still put the campus on lockdown. Uh Utah Valley University said, I guess in a statement here, that the shooter fired from a campus building about 200 yards from Kirk. >> So that's uh what we're hearing from CNN, but that coming from the Utah Valley University itself. >> Yeah, they issued that first alert uh with the information about the suspect and then they just apparently released that about uh from a building 200 >> about 200 yards away. But then again, that uh was attributed to Utah Valley University and that's from a CNN report. >> So, we're continuing our coverage right now. Uh Charlie Kirk in critical condition after being shot at Utah Valley University. Uh he was speaking and answering questions from a large crowd of students at the quad outside Utah Valley University. Right now, uh, the university is sealed off and they've also cancelled classes. We don't know for how long that will happen. Could very well possibly, uh, stretch through tomorrow, maybe the rest of the week as police continue their investigation. Of course, a lot of people uh, witnessed this. They lived it, and uh, there's a lot of trauma today that people have to work through. >> Yeah, we heard from uh, Utah Senator John Curtis. This is his district. He was the mayor of Provo for years and now represents the bigger district there as senator in Congress. And Heidi Hatch talked with him live. He they had an interview scheduled to talk about 911 and the Tmont officers who were shot and killed in the line of duty a few weeks ago. uh they had the interview lined up and ready to go and instead we talked about this and Senator Curtis just said it's horrible that something like this happened at all and he's mortified that it happened here in Utah and in his district and uh just sending prayers for Charlie Kirk and uh everyone in in the area and family especially. >> Okay, we want to go back to the live desk right now. We have Kristen McPeek there. He's been uh especially watching social media and some of the reaction we're getting from across uh the world, actually the nation and our leaders. Kristen, >> yes, lots of reaction that I am going through. We're seeing it from local leaders to people all around the country, from leaders who are Democrats, Republicans. We'll start off with here locally. The Utah Senate released a statement. Um this is from President Stuart Adams. I'm deeply deeply disturbed by the violent incident involving Charlie Kirk at UVU. What happened is outrageous, unamerican, and completely unacceptable. Political violence has no place in Utah or anywhere in America. Free speech and civil discourse are core to who we are. And then it continues, and I stand firmly for both. My prayers are with Charlie and his family. And that is along with a tweet from the White House um with President Trump responding to this. We must pray for Charlie Kirk. We're also seeing reaction from press secretary. And then we're also seeing reaction from Nancy Pelosi. The horrific shooting today at Utah Valley University is reprehensible. Political violence has no place in our nation. All Americans should pray for Charlie Kirk's recovery and hold the entire UVU community in our hearts as they endure the trauma of this gun violence. And so, um, that is one other person we know, Gavin Newsome. The attack on Charlie Kirk is disgusting, vile, and reprehensible. In the United States of America, we must reject political violence in all caps here, every form. Um, another one that I saw, New York City mayor. We may disagree on the issues, but gun violence has no place in our country. Our prayers are with Charlie Kirk, his family, and everyone else affected by today's shooting. And we're just, you know, on social media, especially as this news is getting out, we're seeing more and more people commenting and a lot more reactions here. So, um, I'm going to be going through those. Everyone seems to have, you know, something to say, but a majority of it is just prayers for Charlie Kirk and his family. His wife Erica, I've been checking out their social media. Um, his wife Erica hasn't said anything. Charlie Kirk actually runs an organization called TurningPoint USA. And I've been looking at that to see if there are any statements and still haven't seen anything there yet. We'll keep you updated as we learn more and um a lot to go through and a lot of news to cover today with this that those people with Turning Point are there at the hospital with him because they were probably there at the rally with him as well. >> Yes. Yeah, you're right. And uh a tragic time like this, you know, people do come together like Gavin Newsome, opposite end of the political spectrum than Charlie Kirk, mayor of New York. But uh everybody condemns this obviously and uh this is a sad day for America, sad day for Utah that it happened here for sure >> that it happened at Utah Valley University in Utah County. And we apparently have some video showing how big that crowd was at UVU and the quad there. And you see how it was all set up. The big crowd under that tent there, that square on the bottom right of your screen is where Charlie Kirk was. He was sitting at a at a table wearing a white t-shirt. There it is again. >> Okay, this is where uh the shot is fired. Uh obviously we don't want to show what happened immediately after that, but I I think apparently the the drone video might have showed people scattering >> scattering. >> Okay, this is before the event and you'll see uh Charlie getting ready to take questions. Right before that, he was uh tossing hats out to the audience. t-shirts and welcoming everybody to the big rally and uh we and the video we saw there. Here's the the tweet from President Trump. He says, "We must all play pray for Charlie Kirk who has been shot. A great guy from top to bottom. God bless him." And that was just within a few minutes after the shooting. So, he got word very quickly. Um and we do have word that he is in critical condition right now at Tempenogus. >> A lot of prayers going out to him. Uh we are certainly mobilizing all of our reporters to UVU to bring you the best uh coverage possible at this time. We have David AOA. I guess he's right off campus there. And uh David, thanks for joining us. I understand that you are talking with someone. Do they see what happened or what's their connection to this? >> Can you record this? >> Yeah, I'm here with Andrew who says he's about 20 feet away from the booth when all this happened. So Andrew, just walk me through what you saw, what you heard. >> For sure. Um, so basically, um, I just heard a shot. Charlie Kirk hit, got hit, looked like he was on the right neck and fell towards the left. Security took him immediately and we all crashed down for a good 5 seconds. And and in my head, I was thinking, "Wait, what are we doing? We got to get out of here." So, I basically started yelling, "Guys, we got to go. We got to go." And we just all started leaving. I I left all my friends. We we just lost all each other. And then I just came and found my host family's um dad office. Yeah. So, I'm here right now outside of the campus, but it was insane. >> How have you been? I mean, it's been a little while since this all happened. Are you still kind of adrenaline's going, shaking up? >> Basically, my heart's beating pretty fast. The adrenaline's there. Um, it's really traumatizing. Definitely something that I've never witnessed before. I think a lot of the college students were there, even some teenagers and some kids with families. I think everybody's probably feeling about the same of how I feel right now. So, >> yeah. I mean, just what are your whole thoughts on this? I mean, this event comes and people come out and show out not expecting this. >> Um, I'll be honest with you. I'm neutral, moderate, but you can you can you can debate, argue, disagree with whoever, but I think it's totally wrong to shoot an individual. Yeah. So, um, I'm I'm just trying to digest everything right now, but that's that's my thought at least. Uh-huh. So, >> how long would you say it like took for everyone to get out of the area? >> Probably for a little bit. I think maybe like up to 3 minutes, 4 minutes. Yeah. Everybody was packed and there were only two entrances basically what of of what I've seen on the right side and the left side. So it it took for a while and there was a big chunk of people gathered together and they were trying to leave throughout the door. So yeah, um it was there for a while. Some people were actually trying to find who was a shooter there and they were screaming and yelling and yeah, but I was just trying to get out of the scene super quick. So >> have you been able to make contact with anyone you were with? >> I I have. I have. Um everybody's safe with their families and friends. Yeah. And I called them and they asked me if I was okay and I'm fine and everybody's doing okay. So yeah, >> one shot. >> One shot. Yep. I just heard clear shot. Boom. And that was it. Yeah. >> And I mean as we're waiting for more information was kind of going your through your head as you want more information too. >> Um yeah. Um right now like I said I'm trying to digest everything. So I don't I don't know if I can take more information down right now. But as soon as I know I'm just I just hope everybody's safe. Um, and especially a significant individual like Charlie Kirk that is willing to open up and speak at a university like this. I just hope everybody's okay. Yeah. >> Well, thank you, Andre. I appreciate you talking with us. And so, we're here on campus and it's a ghost count town. We walked through a little bit. We got told to get out because right now it is on lockdown. And again, we're waiting a little more information right at the front of the campus. There's just a sea of lights and police and law enforcement. So, we're just waiting to get a little bit more information and we're going to be out here on campus talking to more witnesses, more people. And when we get that, we'll bring that to you. But for right now, I'll send it back to you guys in the studio. >> David, thank you very much for that. Uh we appreciate it. We want to go back to our photojournalist, Mike Steven. He has been talking with people there and uh we wanted to get a sense of what you've learned from, uh talking with those folks. Mike. >> Um, one lady that I spoke to, Ron, she was a former police officer herself with extensive uh, history in police, multiple jobs. She tells me she was about to enter through the gates to go in when she heard the gunshot. Uh, she couldn't tell where it came from because she said there was a little bit of an echo, but she said it sounded like it came from above. As she was entering in, uh, a lot of the students were pouring out towards her. Two students in particular looked like they were struggling, so she managed to get a hold of them, take them out, get them safe. She called the police to get these two students some help. Uh, another gentleman I spoke with, he said he was, I think he said around 40 ft from the stage to uh, stage left and he heard the gunshot. He saw Charlie get hit and immediately the crowd dropped to the ground and then started to disperse from there and he was pushed towards the back of the stage. And as he was pushed he noticed that police had one elderly gentleman on the ground on his knees in cuffs. He did mention a name because he recognized the gentleman but I'm reluctant to share that name now because we're not sure what that gentleman has to do with this if anything. Um but then after that he turned around and left. The police were so focused on getting to Charlie Kirk that they were able to just leave on their own and get out to this position now. And as you can see from here, this police presence just keeps growing. There's more officers keep showing up, more officers getting dressed in tactical gear. Uh the only traffic that I see leaving campus right now is either foot traffic from students or civilian traffic in their cars. The only traffic going in again is just been police officers, SWAT team units coming in, mobile command units, uh some of the really big tank-like vehicles that a lot of police departments are having these days. And >> that's about as much as I've seen from out here. Well, >> Mike, u you've seen all of that activity and we heard about the man in handcuffs. We don't know if he was the suspect. We have to be careful and try to confirm any reports and that's why we're hearing from uh from witnesses, but it's a good point to say that that person was in cuffs, but we're not positive that that person was the shooter. So, with more people arriving, are they still looking for a shooter? Well, uh, one thing you have to keep in mind in situations like this, sometimes people are detained for a few moments, you know, for one reason or another. So, that doesn't necessarily mean that he was a suspect. And, uh, >> UVU itself had said that the suspect was taken into custody shortly after the shooting. I think uh there's been there have been some media reports saying no suspect is still on the loose but right now we have to go with I guess what UVU stated. We have Brian Mlehey uh there outside the university as well and I understand Brian you have uh some people that you're talking to. >> Yeah, we've talked to a number of people who were at the event today with Charlie Kirk and Max Stanley is one of them. He is a pitcher for the UVU baseball team. Uh where were you in relation to Charlie Kirk? >> Yeah, I was more towards the back left of the uh courtyard kind of looking left side towards his uh his tent. So, >> and what did you see? >> I saw, you know, at one moment me and my buddies were having a good time just listening to what was going on and then we just saw we heard a loud shot, a loud bang and then I saw his body actually in slow motion kind of fall over. So, um, >> there were others who said that they saw blood on his neck. Did you see that? >> I think we were a little too far up for me to see blood, but I did see his body look sort of lifeless going down. >> And when that happened, then what was the next thing that you witnessed? >> There were people just rushing. I was doing all I could to to help him out. Get him out. Get him out. And uh yeah, just uh just bodies everywhere. >> Was Was there anyone rushing the stage to to help Charlie Kirk? My focus wasn't really on the stage. It was more on >> You were worried about getting people out. >> Yes, sir. >> Uh, >> you were with some friends. >> Yep. >> You've had a lot of chance to You've had a chance now to process it, talk about it. >> What are your What are you What are you saying? What are your thoughts about what happened here? >> You know, America just needs God. Um, I I pray really hard for Charlie and his family, but in conclusion, America needs God and we need to come to a resolution with all this stuff. So, and I think we can put our faith in God and we'll we'll be we'll be better. >> Was there pandemonium there? >> It's a good way to to describe it. Yeah, it was crazy. There's just bodies going everywhere, everyone running, fleeing the scene. So, >> any of you also there uh in the crowd? You were in the crowd. >> You okay? What's your name? >> I'm Maddox. Maddox. >> Okay. >> Uh so, we we had Max tell us that he saw Charlie Kirk Kirk fall in what seemed like slow motion after the shot. What did you witness? >> So, I I didn't actually witness that. So, my head was down. So, I was trying to listen um to what the uh prompt was and what he was saying. So I didn't get the full vision of what was happening. I just heard the sound, the loud pop and then I just saw everybody running. So >> So we were told previously that there was a question about gun violence. Do you recall that? >> Yeah, that's what I remember hearing. >> What What was the question? >> Um it was something along the lines of mass shootings in America. He was asking Charlie Kirk about that and then um Charlie Kirk was going to pick up the microphone and then he got shot. So, he hadn't even he hadn't even uh responded to the question when he was >> this was not the first question of the event, right? How long had the event been going before the gunfire? >> I'd say like 10 minutes, 10 15 minutes. >> And at that point, is there is there any yelling? Is there any screaming? Is there is there a good do you sense a good um vibe in the crowd? >> Yeah, I mean I for the most part it was a good vibe. I mean, there's always going to be like >> there's always going to be parts. Yeah. Hecklers, there was a group that was >> obviously opposing him that was in the corner, >> but for the most part, I'd say it was a generally good vibe. I didn't think anything crazy was going to happen, but, you know, >> and and how did Charlie Kirk uh appear to you prior to the gunfire? Did he did he did he appear to enjoy the banter with the crowd? >> Yeah, he seemed to get be getting into it. the crowd, you know, everybody seemed to have a good view towards him. Um, he was confident. You know, he was doing his normal thing, his normal, um, debates. >> You wanted to hear him speak. >> Yeah, I wanted to hear him speak. >> Uh, you like the the give and take between Charlie Kirk and college students. >> Yeah. Yeah. You can see it all over the internet. >> Yeah. It's everywhere. You know, it's entertaining, but yeah, at some point, you know, we can't be doing that. >> Who else was in the in the crowd here? No exercise. No. No. >> I was behind. >> You were behind. Now you were behind. You said Charlie Kirk was speaking. You were about 30 uh 30 feet behind. >> Yeah. So they had the underpass and then there was some cars parked that was taped off area. I was just standing right behind the taped off area to try to listen better because I just wanted to hear what >> did you hear anything that was going on? >> Yeah, I could hear what was being said, but it was Yeah. Yeah. It happened pretty quick. Was there was was the question as it's been described to us so far something about mass shootings? >> Yeah, I didn't really like hear that question. I kind of came in a little late. So, I heard the question before it, but um from what I like understand it was about like I do know a question was asked about shootings on on campus and gun violence. >> Why why would why did you want to be here today for this? Um, honestly, I just like listening to other people's opinions and Charlie Kirk's a very god-fearing man and I have like a lot of respect for what he does and so I wanted to to listen to what he had to say and just learn more about, you know, debates and just understand have a better understanding of of our country and kind of political views and stuff like that. >> And for the first 15 minutes, you thought you were getting that? >> Yes, sir. Yes, sir. So, I mean, I was with one of my buddies and we kind of just talked and we thought it was cool cuz there was so many people and we thought it was cool to have so many people around there to just debate. We didn't think that it was going to turn so violent so quickly >> and as part of the debate, you know, was it was there any fun to it? Was it light-hearted? >> Yeah, I mean, it's always hard to tell what people's intentions are, but it seemed like it was lighthearted. you know, there's a lot of chance, you know, some for him, some against him, but never did I think that it was going to turn violent. You know, it's something where you feel like you're safe on campus and and then it changed really quickly. >> So, there were you had a perspective unlike others that we have spoken with. They were facing him, you're behind him, sir. >> Did you have a sense as to where the gunshot came from? >> From the right side. So, if if he was sitting here and looking out, it was from the right side. >> Right side. Do you have the sense that it was close or from the back of the crowd? >> Um, honestly, it sounded close, but I I also don't know what kind of gun it was. Guns sound differently from different ranges, and so I don't know how close the gun shot was, but it sounded super close to where I was. >> What about the evacuation of campus? What were you told? What did people tell you you had to do? >> So, we just ran. I play baseball here. So, we just ran to the field and got with the coaching staff and they just had a shelter in place and they just said uh stay sheltered until basically you're informed otherwise. And then they said that uh we got a text on our phone saying that uh the shooter was detained and that the police are investigating right now and then we were told that we're okay to leave. So, we have uh some information from the Associated Press just now that the suspect who has been arrested or was arrested has now been released and and apparently that person is not believed to be the shooter. So, there's some confusion out there and it might mean that whoever fired the shots is still at large. >> It's terrifying. I don't know what to say. I hope they catch him. He took him. He I mean he tried to take a man's life who has a family who has a kid. Nobody deserves to die for something where I mean everybody has different beliefs and that's okay. That's what makes us human and nobody deserves to get killed for having a belief that's different than someone else. >> You know when you play collegiate baseball this is this is for many people I I played baseball too but never at the college level. This is a um this is the big leagues if you will. There's a lot of competition >> and there and you try as hard as you can, but to resort to violence like this, deadly violence, that takes it to a whole different game. >> Yeah. No, this is something that I've never experienced before and I never want to experience ever again, you know. It's just terrible. >> Let me get your name, sir. >> It's Luke Kimmel. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Thank you, Luke, very much. So, so we've heard more here uh just now uh from the members of the UVU baseball team uh and some reaction as well to that new information from the Associated Press that whoever was taken into custody has now been released. Um there is and you can you can look here you can see the police presence in the parking lot. Again, we are very close to the baseball field where the baseball players had sheltered in in place until a few moments ago. Um there is a police presence, but I got to tell you, um I think it was much more relaxed when we walked over from this location maybe four or five blocks um 15 20 minutes ago. Nobody stopped us. Uh we did see police officers, but no one was uh telling us that we couldn't go any further, that we had to stay where we were or turn around and go back uh to the south end of the campus, even in fact off campus. Nobody said that. So, uh, the the the situation, I think, after the word that there was a suspect in custody, uh, may have been relief here. Uh, now that things have changed, uh, that it may be a very different story. We'll let you know what we experience going forward. Live at UVU, Brian Mlehey, KUTV2 News. >> All right. Yeah, Brian, thanks. That does change the dynamics somewhat. Yeah, we just like Brian said within the last few minutes the Associated Press reported that the p there was a person taken into custody after Charlie Kirk was shot but it's not to believe believed to be the shooting suspect. So we did see someone in >> cuffs people are detained in situations like this because there's a lot going on. There was a CNN report that they believed and I think that they got this information from UVU, but this is attributed to CNN that the shot appeared to come from a building 200 yards away >> from above from above. >> So, and we see that large police presence there now. Uh, obviously regardless they're going to have a large police presence there, but we have seen tactical type officers uh on the scene, too. So >> now it makes sense that if the shooter is still at large. >> Yeah, possibly. We just they would be there don't know for sure at this point, but uh that's one thing you have to keep in mind. >> We've been uh communicating with our photojournalist Mike Steven there on the scene team coverage of this breaking news today and he recorded an interview that he had with a woman who was entering the stadium as the shot would was fired. Let's listen to what she had to say. >> Where were you at in relation to the stage? I was about ready to go in at this at the front doors when I heard the gunshot. So, I tucked away under cuz I'm a retired police officer. >> So, I was worried about the people being trampled and then the students started rushing out and that's when I grabbed two students. One was about ready to pass out and took her. One of the guys carried him. We carried him and went through the tunnel. Um, and then I recognized the guy that was arrested as George Zim. I went with Charlie Kirk's group to on Turning Point USA last year. He rode in the front seat above right ahead of me. So I recognized him as the one they arrested. I don't know if he's the shooter, but that is the one they arrested. >> So you weren't actually in the event and you said you were at the doors. I was right at the gate at the gate when I heard the gunshot and then I tucked around the corner and then that's when I saw the crowd racing out and that's when I tried to rescue the two students that were >> Could you tell where the gunshot came from? >> Um I I just looked up it sound like it was above but with gunshots it could echo. >> Sure. >> So I just remember looking up and going that sounds like a gunshot. That's a gunshot. And then I saw all the kids running out and then that's when I took cover and then I saw the two students. >> You said you were a a former police officer. >> Yes. >> Who were you with? >> Unified police. >> For how long? >> 20 years. >> Uh were you in the field? What was your role there? >> Yeah, I was uh went four and a half years in the jail, four and a half years in the court, and 10 years on the road >> as a K9 officer, a detective, and a school resource officer. I also taught active shooter. So, >> so you've done quite a bit. That's what you're telling me. Any of that I would imagine that kick in today for you? >> Yeah, I definitely I took cover and then my first response is to protect the the kids, the students cuz I was worried about them being trampled. >> Sure. And so when the one girl was almost about to pass out and she was I thought she was going to get trampled so I grabbed her and then I grabbed the other one and and took him to a place area underneath the tunnel over here to protect him from any more gunshots. So >> what's your thoughts on this? >> Um I don't you know I know George from several events I've been to. Um he always struck me as a little bit odd. I know he's been banned from turf property and the Herberts and Governor Cox. Um, but he always different guy. Not saying he's the shooter, but I recognized them as being the guy that was arrested. So, yeah. >> So, besides George though, if if George is not the shooter, your thoughts on it just in general, just you're coming to this event to hear and something like this happens. Well, based on my experience with shoot shooters, you know, the way I was described where it hit his heart and then blasted out this way, it would seem that it would have been shot from below if it shot out this way. I didn't actually observe the shot. So, um, it would be pretty hard to get a direct shot to the heart. You'd have to be a pretty good marksman to do that from that distance. So, I'm not sure if George was that qualified or not, but >> it just seems like that was a pretty well >> Yeah. >> shot. So, >> um I've been lis