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The Jubilee Debate Format
Charlie Kirk participated in a segment on the Jubilee YouTube channel, a platform known for bringing influencers from across the political spectrum together for focused discussions and debates. The format often involves participants physically moving to different sides of a room based on their positions on various issues, creating visual representations of ideological divides. In this particular instance, Kirk sat down with a college student named Parker for what would become a challenging exchange about gender definitions.
The Opening Question and Parker's Response
Kirk opened with his signature question: "What is a woman?" Parker responded with a nuanced definition: "A woman is an adult human person that has a desire to be in accordance with the particular set of social and cultural norms that are typically associated with a female sex." When Kirk countered by asking Parker to define a man, Parker pointed to Kirk himself and mentioned XY chromosomes. This set up what would become the central tension of the debate.
The Theological Challenge
Parker then pivoted to a theological argument that caught Kirk off guard: "Does God the Father have XY chromosomes prior to incarnation?" This question exposed a potential contradiction in Kirk's framework. If a man is defined by XY chromosomes, how could God the Father—consistently referred to with male pronouns in scripture—be considered male without biological attributes? Parker pressed this point: "He's a father and he's he him, but he's not a man."
Kirk's Defense and Retreat
Kirk attempted to defend his position by invoking the Trinity and claiming that "God the father is neither man nor woman. He is omniscient omnipotent. He is all being." When Parker asked why Kirk uses "he" pronouns, Kirk responded that the scriptures do. Parker countered that the original Hebrew word "Adonai" is actually genderless, though Kirk could have noted that Hebrew verbs in scripture are gendered male. Kirk maintained that "God the father is so above gender" that it transcends human understanding, but that the language structure necessitates choosing pronouns.
The Pronoun Argument
Parker then delivered what observers considered the strongest point of the exchange: "You know, he's not a man under your worldview. You still use his preferred pronoun. You still call him a man. You don't do that with trans people because you're transphobic. That's why." This argument used Kirk's own ideological framework—that gender originates from religious doctrine—against his position on transgender individuals.
The Biology Question
Parker continued to press Kirk on God's biology before the incarnation of Christ: "Before incarnation, there's no penis. There's no XY chromosomes." Kirk attempted to reference Jacob seeing the face of God and wrestling with God as evidence of some form of physical presence. Parker pointed out that "characters can have faces without biology," maintaining that one can be genderless and still have a face, or be non-binary and have a face. When Parker asked directly what biology God has, Kirk admitted, "To be honest, I don't quite know."
The Final Exchange
Parker seized on this admission: "You don't know what a man is?" Kirk tried to recover by saying "you're looking at a man" and referencing his viral "What is a woman" video with 20 million views on TikTok. But Parker maintained that under Kirk's own worldview, God the Father doesn't meet the criteria Kirk established for manhood. The exchange ended with Kirk attempting to redirect, but the theological challenge had exposed what Parker and others saw as inconsistencies in the biological essentialist argument.
Reception and Analysis
Commentators noted that this represented a rare instance where Kirk appeared to struggle in a debate format he typically dominates. The fact that Kirk claimed God is "above gender" or "gender neutral" was seen as a significant retreat from his usual positions, given that he and his guests have historically emphasized "Father God" and rejected concepts like women priests or gender-neutral religious language. The debate highlighted how religious fundamentalism underlies many arguments about gender, and how those same religious texts can be interpreted to challenge rigid binary definitions.
Video Transcript
[00:00] Let's play Charlie Kirk uh on the
[00:02] Jubilee uh YouTube channel. I'm not
[00:04] This is like a YouTube channel that
[00:06] sometimes has different um influencers
[00:09] on the all across the political spectrum
[00:12] and just sort of like focus grouping
[00:14] stuff with them like stunts or stunts
[00:17] like something like this for example.
[00:18] Sometimes they'll have like if you agree
[00:20] with this issue go to this side of the
[00:21] room and then go to this side of the
[00:23] room and then they all like debate or
[00:24] talk about it.
[00:25] Okay. And there's Charlie Kirk sitting
[00:27] down with a um uh college student named
[00:31] Parker. And um this um
[00:37] guy uh this student, I was going to say
[00:40] kid, but you know, a college student um
[00:44] is uh does a great job with the guy who
[00:48] wishes that he was still a kid.
[00:50] Can we put this freeze frame up? Like
[00:52] look how much older Charlie looks now
[00:53] from the people that he's supposed to be
[00:55] speaking to.
[00:56] Well,
[00:57] and just and just to also and just to
[00:58] clarify, the reason why it looks like
[01:00] there's a you know a little bit of a a
[01:02] struggle to get into the chair is
[01:04] because it's sort of like a musical
[01:05] chairs thing to be get to be the person
[01:07] to debate Trump next.
[01:09] But the point is he's supposed to be
[01:10] young person whisperer. I mean when do
[01:12] you age out of this?
[01:13] Check that chicken. I mean he's got a
[01:15] few years.
[01:16] Are you kidding? This is uh the Steven
[01:18] Crowder has made an entire career out of
[01:20] this. Charlie Kirk is going for it too,
[01:21] except for in this instance, Charlie
[01:23] Kirk gets his hand gets it handed to
[01:25] him.
[01:26] Incidentally, this is, you know, this is
[01:28] more or less the uh the the definition
[01:30] of of woman that I used that um and and
[01:34] this this guy really articulates it
[01:38] well, though. Go ahead, watch this.
[01:40] Okay.
[01:42] All right, Parker. What is a woman? Uh,
[01:43] a woman is an adult human person that
[01:45] has a desire to be in accordance with
[01:46] the particular set of social and
[01:47] cultural norms that are typically
[01:48] associated with a female sex. Define a
[01:50] man.
[01:50] Associate, you're looking at one XY
[01:52] chromosomes and a
[01:53] Okay, but does God the Father have XY
[01:55] chromosomes prior to
[01:56] incarnation? We we literally have a
[01:57] religious
[01:58] He's a father and he's he him, but he's
[02:00] not a man.
[02:00] We have a religious
[02:01] Wait, so a man is someone with XY
[02:02] chromosomes, but he doesn't have X Y
[02:04] chromosomes and he's still a man. He
[02:05] still his preferred pronoun.
[02:06] It's actually very interesting. In the
[02:07] original Hebrew, Adonai, do you know
[02:09] what Adonai is? It's the Hebrew word for
[02:10] God. It's actually genderless, but in
[02:13] the actually scriptures,
[02:15] h
[02:16] Adonai is actually not the word for God
[02:19] in uh in Hebrew in the uh Tanakh as they
[02:23] call it or the the Torah like Hebrew,
[02:26] the Jewish Bible, uh Adonai is a
[02:29] basically a placeholder for God because
[02:31] you're not supposed to say God. Um if
[02:33] you're super religious, that's why
[02:35] sometimes you'll see people write God g-
[02:39] D. However, um and Adonai I guess could
[02:44] arguably considered uh genderless by um
[02:48] uh by people. However, if you look in
[02:50] the scripture
[02:52] in the Torah, this is what you would
[02:54] call the Old Testament if you're a
[02:56] Christian.
[02:57] every time any reference to the Lord
[03:02] which is Adonai or or uh you know Hashem
[03:05] or whatever it is
[03:08] if you look at the verb the verb that is
[03:11] used in Hebrew verbs can be um uh uh are
[03:15] gendered
[03:17] the verb is always male it is always
[03:21] gendered male
[03:24] go ahead
[03:25] it's the Hebrew word for god it's
[03:27] genderless. But in this in actually in
[03:30] the scriptures they use he right and
[03:32] they use the masculine. Jesus Christ
[03:35] came to earth as a man not as a woman
[03:37] not as gender queer. But let's go back
[03:39] to the
[03:39] but God the father is a man right cuz
[03:41] all fathers are men.
[03:42] Well first of all there's a trinity. So
[03:43] God the father is neither man nor woman.
[03:46] He is omnicient omnipotent. He is all
[03:47] being on top of.
[03:48] So why do you use he?
[03:49] Well I did not. The scriptures do. You
[03:51] could use woman. You could say her. You
[03:53] could use him. But the way that the
[03:55] language is structured again it is so
[03:57] the God the father is so above gender.
[03:58] It is so above any of our understanding
[04:01] with glory and understanding again
[04:02] because you have to make a choice either
[04:04] he or him or her in the original
[04:07] scriptures. Let's go back to I'm having
[04:08] some fathers aren't men and boys. So I'm
[04:10] I'm
[04:10] so some fathers are not men and boys not
[04:12] men or boys.
[04:13] Of I'm sorry.
[04:14] Some fathers are not male.
[04:15] No, of course they are. I'm not
[04:16] Wait. So God the father is a male.
[04:18] Hold on. God the father. So where where
[04:19] do we get God the father from? What what
[04:20] Greek word?
[04:21] From your scripture. Well, from Aba,
[04:22] right, which is a very close personal.
[04:24] You're not answering my questions and
[04:25] you're bringing up random language that
[04:26] doesn't matter.
[04:27] Well, it actually does it. But let me
[04:28] let me get down to the root of it
[04:29] because I
[04:30] because he's not a man. You know, he's
[04:31] not a man under your worldview. You
[04:32] still use his preferred pronoun. You
[04:33] still call him a man. You don't do that
[04:35] with trans people because you're
[04:36] transphobic. That's why.
[04:37] Okay, got it. But Christ is a man. I'm
[04:38] happy to get into the sexuality and he's
[04:41] not
[04:42] the trinity. Okay.
[04:43] Before incarnation, there's no penis.
[04:44] There's no X Y chromosomes. There's no
[04:46] small gain.
[04:46] Hold on a second. Let's think about it.
[04:47] If that's correct, how is it then Jacob
[04:50] saw the face of God?
[04:52] Okay, so if there's
[04:53] Hold on. If there was none before the
[04:55] incarnation, how did Jacob see the face
[04:56] of God? How did Jacob wrestle with God?
[04:58] Characters can have faces without
[04:59] biology.
[05:00] How did Jacob wrestle with God?
[05:01] So So okay, do you think that he has a
[05:03] body?
[05:03] Well, that's
[05:04] or was that a figurative notion of
[05:05] wrestling?
[05:06] That's that's a mystery of the
[05:07] scriptures. I'm not
[05:10] theology. Can we go back to
[05:11] Why does he actually have a bology? You
[05:12] keep trying to pivot because you know
[05:13] this debunks you what biology does your
[05:16] god have. What? What? By well, the one
[05:17] of Christ our Lord.
[05:18] I meant before incarnation.
[05:20] Well, I I to be honest, I don't quite
[05:21] know and I don't scriptures. You don't
[05:23] know what a man is?
[05:23] Well, you can't define what a man is.
[05:25] It's a little opaque. Again, you're
[05:26] looking at a man. The largest video on
[05:29] TikTok is what is a woman 20 million
[05:31] views, but you don't know what a man is
[05:32] on your own worldview.
[05:32] I said you're looking at a man, right?
[05:34] Wait, but the father doesn't meet that
[05:36] criteria.
[05:36] Am I looking at a man? Okay, good. Just
[05:38] a man that's debating you in a debate
[05:39] right now.
[05:41] That's all we need right now.
[05:43] Do you think that anybody can become a
[05:44] woman? There you go.
[05:47] Um, I want my kid a fruit basket.
[05:49] That's a great tact. I mean, you know, I
[05:52] don't spend a lot of time thinking about
[05:53] uh father or god or whatever that is,
[05:56] but I mean,
[05:58] how do you use that term? I guess that's
[06:01] the uh
[06:02] I mean, the question we have to ask is
[06:04] were the people who wrote the scriptures
[06:05] woke and using uh G/D's preferred
[06:08] pronouns?
[06:09] It is. It is. And the fact that Charlie
[06:11] begins to say, well, that that that
[06:13] there's a face that you can see. And the
[06:15] kid Parker there points out like, well,
[06:17] any gender, you can be genderless and
[06:18] have a face. You could be non-binary and
[06:20] have a face. And then he has to get into
[06:21] the body part, and that's where things
[06:23] get a bit thorny for him. It's smart to
[06:25] use their own kind of like uh ideology
[06:29] as to where gender originates from
[06:31] against him, right? Because they say
[06:33] that it's basically religiously
[06:34] ordained. That's how you can kind of
[06:36] know that this is not about something
[06:38] that's inherent. It's about religious
[06:40] fundamentalism at the end of the day.
[06:42] But even when you get down to the
[06:44] scripture, he makes the case perfectly
[06:47] that there's like these are these
[06:48] assumptions that are are made by
[06:51] religious people just to justify
[06:52] existing hierarchies like Charlie Kirk,
[06:54] right? Um, you know, it's it's it's it's
[06:58] well done. It's well done. Um the the
[07:02] awesome thing too is uh that is probably
[07:05] the first time that Charlie Kirk has
[07:06] ever claimed that God is gender as
[07:09] gender neutral.
[07:10] Exactly.
[07:11] You know that was like this is a retreat
[07:14] here.
[07:14] That was a total freaking retreat.
[07:18] Total retreat. In fact, I am quite sure
[07:22] that it wouldn't uh that that we could
[07:24] search through um Charlie Kirk or his
[07:27] guests saying like gh you believe there
[07:31] uh you know women priests or uh women uh
[07:35] you know uh you know goddess. Are you
[07:37] kidding me?
[07:40] Father God.
[07:43] Oh, that's awesome. That kid apparently
[07:45] is on uh on Twitch. Gizzy on or no? Tik
[07:49] Tok. Tik Tok. Yeah. I mean, I think a
[07:51] lot of that they have that Jubilee they
[07:53] have a bunch of different influencers
[07:54] on. Um it's it's like it's kind of like
[07:56] that whatever show. There's a weird new
[07:58] model where the influence you get book a
[08:00] bunch of influencers in a room and see
[08:01] what happens. But I like when Charlie
[08:03] gets eaten up by
[08:04] I that is awesome. I the Yeah.
[08:07] Old man's too slow.
[08:08] Where do we send that muffin basket
[08:10] without a doubt?
[08:12] Non-binary god.
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