Charlie Kirk Debates College Students on Abortion and College Education at Jubilee Middle Ground Event

now we get to see Charlie Kirk being a master of debate preventing the production of pro progesterone is not the same thing as terminating a fully a a being that has been fertilized he's lost has he never heard this argument before not only is he debating a bunch of college kids now he's deploying bad faith logic in order to win his debate against all the college kids I imagine debating college kids and losing as Charlie Kirk take away every freedom she's ever going to have Jesus Christ bro chill no I'm speaking no I'm speaking no I'm speaking no I'm speaking no I'm speaking no I'm speaking no I'm speaking oh my God God the best counter argument here you high school you got destroyed there all right but there's also he rattled the uh I was talking to the um producer or talent management I think cuz I was going to do the first one of these and uh we were going through the emails and then the Trump [ __ ] happened and then they said uh actually we're going to go with somebody else for the first episode I was like okay pretty sure they got spooked by that do you think they're delaying or do they just know how to work with you I have no idea I don't know how much how spooky I am right now I I don't think the first episode was with Charlie Kirk I think they did another first episode first didn't they my casting uh interview for this was back in July I think we going to debate the woke students or the magga I think I was It was supposed to be me versus conservatives I think they pay for these things right um I think they give you a stipend like a 30 or $40 stipend I think it might be unethical to pay people for these types of appearances I think there was a reason why like paying people for like media or journalistic journalistic like these types of appearances I think it's unethical I don't remember but do you think men can give birth I think that uh what is a stien it's supposed to just be for like food food or like daily travel if you like take off work or if if you get lunch or whatever they'll pay you like I think it's $40 or $50 or something I don't know they might I don't think they cover travel how do you think it worked out that no one cares about Trump getting shot at anymore how that happen so fast the media cycle moves very quickly it was relative inconsequential um he didn't actually suffer any serious injuries so it was easy to move on it for it that way um the shooter ended up being Republican so conservatives couldn't like fix on an angle about like a radicalized liberal so they could move on it that way there was a huge news uh story a couple weeks later or a week later I think when um kamla uh overtook Biden so it moved on that way um true yeah there's just a lot of different things going on but like we just don't new Cycles are very quick right now I think that a person who is assigned male at Birth I don't think they assigned male at Birth so people are not male at Birth I think that a person see your evidence that college is a scam my friend so what do you say in some cases women with iuds are murderers of course not they're murderers so what's the difference between an IUD killing a conceived zygote and like a mother going to Planned Parenthood and killing the P Center that was actually the best point somebody made it's not about the the cells it's not about no no no I'm speaking no I'm speaking no I'm speaking no I'm speaking no I'm speaking no I'm speaking no I'm speaking hello everyone I am Charlie Kirk founder of Turning Point USA and uh I am surrounded by 20 woke college [Music] kids can I what's your name Juliana nice to meet you nice to meet you can we get our terms right first yeah okay abortion is the forcible ending of the viability of a being in utero otherwise known as a fetus do we agree that's what abortion is okay yeah okay great and then murder is the intentional taking of Life different than killing or sudden death so murder would be the intent with intent taking another life do we agree with that okay okay and then we agree that murder in general in society should be illegal yeah okay great so yeah no I do want to preface that I'm a Catholic so I think one really important thing that the Bible says is to not judge and just going back to the topic um I think there's a big difference uh between you know cells in utero than a living breathing existing and while um I do believe it's murder and that's just my personal belief right I don't believe in telling people what to do with their bodies that people this would never be inforced on a show like this you should not be allowed to go on a show like this unless you agree to publicly debate other people I hate the um I hate the child RS okay people like Steven Crowder and Charlie Kirk who only exist to debate college kids they're the equivalence of like shrouds and Dr disrespects who everybody thinks are like gods of FPS because they just play like battle Royals where they're you know destroying 100 other horrible FPS players okay go play some ladder games go play some attorneys go play some actual things don't just jump into a battle royale okay where you're dunking on noobs and [ __ ] and pretend you're a God of gaming not that sh does that okay but I'm just saying like it's a that yeah it's such a stupid so now he gets to look ingenious um you can never ever ever concede that a thing is murder and then say it's okay to do it because murder is almost tautologically a not okay thing murder is generally defined as and she even agreed to the definition is the unjust killing of a person taking of a person's life um you can never that's like probably one of the most egregious uh what is it malaman say use kogan like this is just a thing that no society would ever deem acceptable it's beyond reproach you can never agree to this so her argument is already completely destroyed in her own presentation of it but now we get to see Charlie Kirk being a master debate that's not up to me and it's not up to us as well as Christians to judge should we prevent murder in society for sure yeah I mean should be illegal obviously but I think that it's really she didn't agree that abortion is murder they just agreed on a definition of murder didn't she just say that she doesn't care if it's murder I do believe it's murder and that's just my personal belief right what who what how many [ __ ] people just hold on I'm sorry give me hold on give me like 30 seconds seconds I'm only Banning you for one day I don't believe in telling people what to do with their bodies that's not up to me and it's not up to us as well as Christians to judge should we prevent murder in society for sure yeah should be illegal but I think that it's really different right because you know these people AR sorry nice meet you Jesus he doesn't even have to do a response if they vote her out oh my [Music] God okay this format of running to the chair is a little silly but okay what's your name NAA nice to meet you okay can I just ask um how many weeks do you think that a fetus is viable well viability and moral worth are two different things no but I'm asking you at how many weeks about 20 weeks a baby can survive outside of uterus so it's actually 24 to 26 20 the youngest ever in a ncku unit actually happened in San Diego not far from here and survived in 20 weeks okay so under roie Wade 93% of abortions happened in the first 13 weeks of pregnancy that's 93% of the abortions happened well before a fetus is technically viable as a form of let's go into viability so what is it about let's say a six we baby that has a heartbeat DNA fingerprint brain waves that is less moral worth than an 88-year-old right now with dementia in a home down the street that person requires assistance requires help what why is it that the six week baby is a less moral worth well first of all it's not a baby it's a fetus what does fetus mean a fetus is in utero what does fetus mean in Latin what the I'm sorry it means little human being this smile is very creepy okay um smiling is creepy no your smile specifically but let's go back to we're losing track here no but okay atmology is not relevant the definition of a thing it doesn't matter what it means in the language that it came from that argument is completely and totally worthless what matters is how it's defined in the language it's being used but okay um she should have uh she could have objected that I mean it's a minor Point Charlie hasn't really made an argument but okay what does fetus mean in Latin what does it even mean the uh the Latin word fetus means Offspring bringing forth hatching of young I don't even know if it means what he said it means but okay but is what species is the fetus the fetus is not a species yet it's technically classified as a parasite until it is viable there's no shot that I parasite would you really classif I mean like in layman's you might be able to say yeah it's a parasite but do you think biologists really classify um like offspring that are still in utero as as parasites I not sure if that's true I doubt that's true I don't know if there would be a formal definition of parasites biologically but if there was one I doubt it would include I can't past that are you saying you're saying a baby is a disease or a tumor parasite is not a disas and a tumor those are not the same thing a parasite is defined as something that cannot survive outside of its host a baby before it is viable cannot survive outside of a woman's not a living organ are old people with Alzheimer not this is so definitionally lost this is this this argument is stupid for like 50 different reasons but okay dementia that are being assisted every day are they parasites no they're not parasites they're human beings who are on the brink of death got so my my four Monon old that requires mom's breast milk and requires daily changes and feedings cannot survive without its own is my four-month old a parasite your baby can breathe on its own your baby can drink water from its mouth to its stomach but but it can can hun can it gather can it reason but that's not what qualifies something as being a living organism being a living organism simply means can you survive outside of a womb outside of your host that's what living organism is defined as really so I just want to make sure I'm clear why does that then equate to moral viability it equates to Scientific viability why under what standard because it is not alive and you are advocating for the rights of something that is not technically a life so what while sacrificing the needs of the human woman who is alive got it so but a mom can survive yes without the baby in her right yes the baby cannot survive without the mom but a mom cannot survive about her lungs so it's not her body it's in her body it's not her DNA so it's not her choice so it actually is directly her DNA it's no it's that well there's a something Genesis I don't what is it called no I don't think you can a mother spawn a child with just her own DNA no that would be spontaneous human uh there's a name for this I don't think this can ever happen right I think you can have two sperm fertilizing the same egg I think you can have um there weird things that can happen but I'm pretty sure there always has to be two separate parthenogenesis yeah I think yeah 100% it's 50% of D he's going to win I'm telling you this this could take a while yeah first of all do we have our terms correct we age actually no so first of all i' like to refine our terms two points ring up after that so you Define murder is like intentionally like killing a human being I think that's a very poor way to Def mder because if someone were to like break in my home and playing a gun at the heads of me and everybody I love and I intentionally kill them to prevent them from un from killing my family I don't think I murder them right so I would Define murder as the unjustified termination of a human life you're making a good point let me further clarify then so self-defense is very warant Oh I thought he said I thought he used unjustified in the murder is always defined as the unjustified murder and killing are never used um in exchange for one another but he said that in the beginning that murder you don't use murder and killing he separated those two he just didn't use the unjust I guess exactly right but I can see where you're going to go with how that has to go with abortion but we can go down that in a second yeah so I mean like I how to do I give you my argument so far why I'm Pro Choice why I think it's Justified but first I think that you know your position is quite absurd right because you're saying that is murder to kill a human being right at any point of development especially when mother room my question to you would be well does this make women with iuds murderers because it is the case that in some scenarios an IUD will allow for conception to occur meaning there's a unique human life there but it will prevent its implantation intentionally kill you this is a really difficult one for a lot of pro-life people to deal with is the prevention of implantation um I believe that plan be can work this way but I don't know it could either be you prevent implantation or you um or you un implant an implanted thing um but I think that some I I think Leisa I've I think I've heard of some people that will Define conception as the moment of implantation not the moment of um like the sperm and the um is it the ovam what's the egg called the sperm the egg joining they'll say that it has to join and then and be implanted and that's the um moment of conception to get around this to sneak around this Charlie Kirk has to bite the bullet on this though because it's a brain dead religious dip [ __ ] he has to say yeah that would be considered murder 100% IUD and plan B absolutely well no preventing implantation is not necessarily the same thing as terminating you're it's not the same thing but it can be you can fertilize an egg and prevent the implantation of the egg you have to consider that an abortion unless he's going to run with the well no implantation is conception not conception as being conception or not fertilization as being conception human life there but it will prevent its implantation intentionally killing it well no preventing implantation is not necessarily the same thing as terminating a fertilized deck for example you take Plan B for again it's not it's not preventing the production of pro progesterone is not the same thing as terminating a fully a a being that has been fertilized you you just that was a totally unrelated smish Borg of who cares none that has anything to do with anything you just totally brought in he's lost has he never heard this argument before not know for a fact that the egg is been fertilized you do not know doesn't matter if you know for a fact right if somebody tells me that there's a 10% chance that a human is standing behind that door and I'm like okay cool and then I pull a trigger and I shoot I don't over a fact there's a human behind that in fact I no I got reason to believe there's not 90% chance there not but if I pull the trigger and shoot I'd still be just 100% is culpable for murder somebody who knew 100% there was a person standing by the door right like absolutely um that's a horrible argument the counter argument from this guy and it sounds like this guy knows what he's talking about this is a slam dunk super easy okay yeah so prev fertilization or implantation to you Ling is killing a conceived zygote so what happens a sperm goes into the egg right the egg becomes fertilized it's conceived zygote in some cases it will prevent the implantation of the conceed zygote killing the conceived zy some correct in some cases in some cases it's murder then and you're knowingly full will you're participating in that knowing that you might ize an egg and you're preventing implantation so you're committing murder just not all the time you say in some cases Mur of Mur we do not know for a Cas what the difference what do you mean you don't know for a case please push him on that it doesn't matter what the percentage chances are dog what are you what are you talking about in some cases correct so what you say in some cases Mur of not Mur we do not know for a case that's that's like saying what's the difference between oh he should have let him finish that that's like saying like saying what I killing a conceive zgo like a mother going into plan Parenthood and killing the C well so you asking two separ wait hold on that might have been a bad example so what's the difference between an UD kill Ando a mother going to Parenthood and killing the fetus in room he shouldn't have he shouldn't have granted that he should have pushed him on this maybe you're murdering somebody and maybe not you asking you're asking two separate things if they they knew for certain to be more clear that I have a fertilized egg and I'm going to take a drug to prevent that fertilized EG from attaching to their uterine wall then yes that is an act of killing or murder well what do you think an IUD is for my friend hello what okay so you think murder should go to jail do oh he shouldn't have let him he let him he let him dance away from this too easily I think all murderers should go to jail the answer would be yes he'll B the if it's if it's a question of should women that do abortions go to jail then the answer is very easily yes unless he brings it back the ud thing I mean on the third on third degree murder however no I don't think women that God abortions or had iuds should go to jail because I think that they have been deceived by mass culture Mass propaganda second oh my God that just opened up a whole new bag of worms can of worms you think that people that were people who got abortions shouldn't go to jail he's trying to he's trying to have his cake and eat it too he wants to very harshly penalize this but then he wants to have all the good public will of not coming out as being against women what about women then that kill their one-year-old children who have been deceived by the media would they not be counted as murderers secondly the people who should go to jail are the abortionists who the ones that have been putting the abortion pill the ones that have been doing procedures the ones that have been going into the third trimester and breaking baby acts and inserting them with syringes while the babies are crying and suffocating being born alive and then being are these guys all raising their Flags so some dip can come take his place who's going to be St ah on the operating table that is who should go you know what never mind actually [ __ ] he was up a little bit are the ACs of Kirk's argument formed via moral realism thus informing everything else so if so wouldn't it be easier to just take the anti-oral realist position forcing him to gridlock no why who bro what no jail I can't believe he danced away from that so [Music] easily okay whenever I'm talking about this discussion um I always go to the question of what about in The Case of the mother when her life is in danger oh it doesn't matter this is so cringe I'm sorry pro-choicers no gives a the mother there's never ever ever going to be a time when you excuse murdering somebody for the convenience of another person even if that convenience has to do with health you're just never going to win that argument ever it sounds unhinged and you wouldn't accept it ever in the case of a baby like an actual baby right what if the mother's nipples were just super super super chaed and she really didn't want to feed her kid and she just watched it with her way and start like you'll never ever ever win this argument to a pro lifer and it's just not foundationally it's not even a good argument but we'll see because I'm a big believer I don't I don't know I'm still iffy on if I think it's a or if it's murder or not but even so I I say Mur is Justified guys wait let me just get this one point and then you can vote me out I'll give me one second um say the mother gets pregnant and she knows that if she gets bir she's going to die she has some boring self-defense you're implicating you're not just killing a person you got to save a life right this is an easy this is a level one this is level one argument what if the mom's going to die even a religious even the most religious person will say well that's very tragic but yeah in that case you have to choose unfortunately you know the the mother's going to live you choose the life the mother but you're not just killing the baby you're just avoiding for no reason you have to save one life right kind of comp then what do you do I don't know what that means c section hold [Music] what Charlie Kirk is so stupid um hey just because you um if if a pregnancy is representing like a significant threat to the life of the mother you can't just say C-section and magically you know dismiss all of those fears there's a lot of things that happen in the course of the pregnancy that would that could represent a threat to the mom's life it's very rarely is it just well I'm saying very rarely but it's not just the vaginal birth delivery of the child that is the thing that's representing a threat to the mom's life what a stupid counterargument I don't he might not know anything he might have never actually seen a girl or a [ __ ] or a uterus or anything he might have been born via some conservative think tank somewhere I don't actually know it's possible but okay what you do I don't know what that means- section hold they go right below the belly button and they deliver the baby and after she doesn't have to give bir technically birth but it's much safer so that's that's actually safer than an abortion procedure a C-section is safer than an abortion and in what trimester what C-section is major surgery like if I would like obviously be like what about Plan B versus a C-section what would I look up C-section complication rates hemorrage or increased blood loss there is more blood loss in C-section delivery than with a vaginal delivery this can lead to anemia or blood transf us one to six women per 100 require a blood transfusion ined organs possible ined organs such as a b bladder two for 100 like this such a stupid okay okay H does he think what does he think a C-section is you just like you kind of open the belly button up a little bit and the kid just pops out like it's technically birth but it's much safer so that's that's actually safer than an abortion procedure I don't even know if C-section typically is safer than uh vaginal delivery assuming the mother can deliver vaginally healthily I don't even know if that's the case The Cutting open stomach and taking the baby out is safer than an ordinary I don't know I wonder hold on let's check oh what's going to come up here wait while C sections can prevent injury and even death to those with highrisk pregnancies and their babies they also linked to increased risks of complications like blood clotting and infection says OB Rebecca Stark ah from the north MD do not put yourself or your baby in an unnecessary dangerous position by opting for a C-section when you don't need one okay there you go I don't know why I'm look this out this [Music] hello how are you hi what's your name Deen nice how does it make sense if you think C-section safer then why are the moms always not choosing it it's historically made before technology was better for birth you are so wrong on this LOL what um I would say with abortion I think uh it's it's very complicated but I think the issue that I have primarily with your stance of being pro- life that there's no Nuance um there's women who are being forced to travel hundreds of miles to abortion care even in cases of rape in certain states that they're not giving any sort of um allowance for that and I think um you know a lot of people who are pro life they they say that're they're pro life but I feel like they're really Pro birth because in you know with Firearms uh the United States has some of the highest firearm deaths um out of oecd Nations right and you can acknowledge that that's for children who are actually living and breathing um so I feel like abortion while yeah it is I can I can definitely see your point I I just think that this should be allowed in some circum yeah great um I'm happy to get into the gun violence stuff later but I want to really stay focused on abortion you can you can say you see my point can you see the world also where since we know as a human life that it should be illegal since we don't allow murder in our society well that's that's that's why I have an issue because abortion is not being done willy-nilly it's it's like abortion we have every day in America I'm going to guess 30,000 abortions a day maybe I don't know a thousand 4,000 a day so it is kind of willy-nilly we have one oh 4,000 a day my bad6 sorry damn [Music] hello hi um I just want to clarify the thing that you're aiming for is less abortion right that would be what you want atast eventually it's also a protection of those that can't protect themselves but yes and that's why once we after the reversal of R versus w we saw abortions go down dramatically in Texas Alabama Mississippi we saw thousands of babies are now alive and well they're able to have amazing lives thanks to the Rival R versus wi uh I don't think a lot of that is true um it is but it's not true because when you make abortion illegal it doesn't actually decrease the amount of abortion talking point in Texas the number show differently the birth rate has gone up yeah legal goes down but illegal abortion still happen abortions still happen outside of whatever data that's not true but let's just say so so well you want to well first of all you count the abortion pill you're right but that's a separate thing than a chem chemical abortion and surgical abortion different things so I'm not debating I'm not I'm not debating you I'm debating her so chemical and surgic wait why are they so different she should push on that I don't know goal goes down but illegal abortion still happen abortions still happen outside uh sorry this argument was soad thousands of babies are now alive and well that are ble to have amazing Liv ssal R versus way uh I don't think a lot of that is true um it is but it's not true because when you make abortion illegal it doesn't actually decrease the amount of talking point in Texas the numbers so differently birth rate is going up it also doesn't matter like you don't necessarily just make things legal or illegal depending on how bad the crime is enforceability can be to some some kind of like to some extent we talk about it but like for murder really legal goes down but illegal abortion still happen abortions still happen outside of whatever data you that's not true but let's just say so so well you want to well first of all if you count the abortion pill you're right but that's a separate thing than a chem chemical abortion and surgical abortion different things and I'm not debating I'm not I'm not debating you I'm debating her so if you want to do the flags and come back in try and be so let me ask you this so the question is we should try to limit unjust suffering of human beings right sir okay that's my position is that there's unjust suffering of anywhere between 1.4 to 1.6 million abortions a year of human beings that are being massed in the womb and so that's not a woman's rights issue that's that is a very secular Sam harrises analysis of of meta ethics I no well no maybe um meta or normative I think it would be meta ethics the idea that what we ought to do is just reduce the amount of suffering of all human beings because then if that's your definition for what would make the most goodness then the immediate answer that you fire back is oh can unconscious being suffer can you suffer in your sleep the answer would be well probably not no and then it would be oh are feed this is before the age of 16 weeks do they have a Consciousness well no oh then in that case if your goal is to reduce the suffering of unconscious beings all you have to do or of conscious beings all you have to do is show that the mother benefits somewhat to her conscious well-being by having an abortion and that's automatically a justification for it because it's not even a conscious experience there yet nothing is suffering there is no one to speak of who is suffering they don't even have Consciousness yet see that his argument that he just gave here that justification is insanely self-defeating but um he I don't know if he no one will call him out on that limit on just offering of human beings right sure that's my is that there's unjust suffering of anywhere between 1.4 to 1.6 million abortions a year of human beings that are being mass in the womb so that's not a woman's rights issue that's not a men's rights issue that's just a human rights issue okay the best way to decrease abortions happening is proper sex education limiting abortion and making abortion illegal does not actually decrease the amount of abortions how can we get you to dress up as a Zoomer and shave to debate Charlie Kirk in a panel like this why do you have to shave he's not shaved what what is your evidence of that what is my evidence of that because we have increased sex education last 30 years we've had no our sex education is so bad in America well it's Absolut that wasn't a response to what he just said by bad what do you mean by that we have we have more access to birth control for young kids we have more kids that are learning to birth control at a younger age we have more of that in our public school system and we've seen all the trends actually going in a negative Direction so in fact we see that the more sexual education there is the the more disturbing those trans you say that let me ask you just one more thing you say that if we make abortion illegal people will still do it should we then just make gang violence legal because no I'm saying if you actually wanted to decrease the amount of abortions that happen you wouldn't be advocating for like to make abortion illegal you'd be advocating all apply to stealing looting kidnapping AR and murder well actually it does because those are results of different societal issues that you should be educating yourself on rather than making ital can we should we make kidnapping arson burgly murder legal because they're else we should yeah that's an easy thing to that's an easy counter helping Society heal from those things the question we want less of those things so we just make them legal we'll get less looting you know actually I'm going to let someone else than oh she abdicated hi Parker nice to meet you yes nice to meet you Charlie big TI Tok guy here so like uh people who were married to children in the past and normalized in that Society should they go to prison like if you could go back in time would you put those pedophiles in prison that that married those children because it was normalized they were deceived into thinking it's okay would you put them in prison you have to slow down sorry how fast is he talking this a very easy question um I think Charlie has to answer yes because Charlie's foundation for moral belief is going to be biblical uh it's going to come from God and God's belief about what's morally right or wrong shouldn't be relative to time period so it should be whatever comes from the Bible so he has to say yes his Mor the moral beliefs of what's right or wrong should be consistent through time maybe he'll say that the justice system shouldn't represent necessarily what's moral or not moral I would be really surprised him say that but we'll see what he says file should get the death penalty so you go back in the past you give them the death penalty even though they were deceived into thinking it was okay but you said people who get abortions but it's not oh using a variation of argument I said someone should do it earlier but yes true um earlier he said well I don't think women should be punished for abortion because they were deceived into aboring their kid and then my thing was okay well if you kill your one-year-old and you were deceived into it should you be forgiven for that so he's just he doesn't need to do this go back into the past thing he could just ask today oh what about a right who was um you know deceived into it or but it's a good example though because it's showing that well this was normalized across an entire Society um like pedophilia that's yeah okay no actually I like this it's a good one it's a good one it's a better analog actually to my baby Murder One well for a different reason because it shows it was a thing that was normalized in society but you'd still punish for it just like abortion yeah but you wouldn't punish for abortion right currently illegal okay deceived into thinking it was okay but you said people who get abortions are women should but it's not currently illegal okay what's not currently illegal but at that time at that time it wasn't no I would not go back and retroactively enforce laws where things were currently not ilg oh now he changed his position that's untenable you can't be religious generally speaking and have different morals through different time periods the implicate there is that God is not perfect and God can't give you a consistent moral code because God might think that something is good or bad you know differently 100 years from now he has to hit on the religious angle let's see hold on a second when was it when was illegal in America Charlie is offis skating now now he's going to try to push for specific facts he's gone into V mode this is a this is debate bro 101 right I'm completely defeated on the subject like on the on the actual merits of the argument let's see if I can obis get and ask random questions to try to like pivot off the argument let's see if he gets distracted or if he's able to CU he should just say okay well I don't know when it was legal but let's say for the hypothetical the year 1900 he should just say that he shouldn't try to do specific because now Charlie's going to try to beat him up to see if he knows the actual specific law and the specific date and where it was specifically allowed if anybody specifically did it and if he doesn't Charlie is going to claim that he's won the argument just because he doesn't know all the specifics there this is a bad faith tactic because he knows he's lost on the merits of the argument acely enforce laws where things were currently not a put in prison in the past hold on a second when was it when was it legal in America well child marriage was legal in America throughout the early 1900s and especially throughout most of society for thousands of years especially in the Old Testament in the Bible hold on hold on a second so where where is the levitical law that allows you to marry a child do you see the how we're like specifying very very very very very hard to try to get him on a very very very narrow point but he's missing the the meat of the argument intentionally this is an intentional bad faith tactic he so not only is he debating a bunch of college kids now he's deploying bad faith logic in order to win his debate against all the college kids just and this is his job is knowing these types of things by the way he's a political figure but oh yeah can you name the verse can you name theing verse can can you name any verse what do you mean so where where is the levitical law that allows you to marry a child oh yeah can you name the verse so well I can't name the verse but the particular conditions that are listed in the Bible are that you have to beat physical maturity and emotional maturity which extremely big and through Society there is not a verse but let's kind of go back let's go back to well generally agree upon it's 18 years old but let me ask the correct he's correct he's speaking I think he might be speaking to or maybe he's not Charlie no he's not he it's understandable what he's saying Charlie just isn't engaging because Charlie knows that he's completely defeated on this point say 18 years old but let me ask you a question that where's now he's and Charlie hasn't engaged at all with it now he wants to flip and try to and try to get him on a different uh pathway this kid's already answered with more detail than what Charlie was expecting Charlie was hoping that he didn't have an answer of like oh in the 1800s and 1900s or that in early Biblical history right so Charlie now he's well what's the verse what's specifically what happened and he even knew the subject um the content of the biblical requirements to marry somebody underage and now like well that doesn't matter let me let me ask you a question right um what's Charlie going to ask here how does he get him off this hold on not a verse but let's kind of go back back to let's go back well generally agreed upon as 18 years old is he going to ask him about abortion in the Bible maybe or something I don't know I don't I have no idea where where he's going to try to let me ask you bed Bas on the Bible I say 18 years old but let me ask you a question's when does Life Begin conception oh he's just totally he oh and this other kid is this kid is me this kid is debate brained not not in a bad way but he's like he's in argumentative mode he shouldn't have let Charlie Escape Charlie just totally weasel out of a of a line of argumentation that he was fully defeated on completely and utterly annihilated on and now he's going to Pivot out to like uh to to reframe not not reframe I'm so sorry he's changing the topic entirely now based on Bas on the Bible I say 18 years old but let me ask you a question when does Life Begin conception like conception great so so should we protect our life at conception I care about sentient life not do you think braad people should be able to pull the plug on like pull the plug on IND question brain when do brain waves start uh you can see brain waves around 6 to8 weeks which indidual are brain waves as well so the brain waves necessar produ experience until around can you see from see it from my perspective that at six to eight weeks those brain waves will actually increase not decrease if allowed the process of development to continue did you know the then that ah he's too he's trying he's doing too much the kid on the right is doing too much then you should just ask them oh okay Charlie Kirk then do you think that you can abort a child up to 6 weeks old would you agree with that that at 6 to 8 weeks brain waves will actually increase not decrease if allow the process of development to continue did you know those same EG skin exist in brain dead people they don't think the difference with the brain dead people is that the likelihood of those brain waves actually increasing is very low it's six to eight weeks went by 15 weeks they can hear the irrv sensation that's what brain is not com you're you're you're doing a red herring go back to what's reding 6 a red herring is where you you avoid the topic and you say something that is adjacent or symmetrical that's what Charlie Kirk did when he reentered this entire conversation on or he he centered it on a totally different topic of when does Life Begin that's what char now he's describing the tactic that he just used like 20 seconds ago and now he's trying to say the kid did it when the kid's just trying to answer all the questions he's offering too much as an answer but um yeah it's not you're you're you're doing a red herring go back to what's a reding six a red herring is where you you avoid the topic and you say something that is adjacent or symmetrical to what I'm saying but not actually I'm saying that's not a reding a don't ever Define debate terms in a debate like this ever you'll always look tip Tipper don't do that is charer G that popular I don't see him often he's the head of Turning Point USA I believe the actual head or just the like Figure Head I think he's the actual head isn't he two eight week baby if they're allowed to continue to develop what ends up happening uh at a certain point it will become a senent being in the the way if I keep engaging in sex with my girlfriend there'll be a baby in the future unless you're infert which we don't know but so let's let's see let's see the Charlie how old are you and how many kids do you have oh he does have two children [ __ ] of development right why why do you have the ability or the right those of pil toison from 1904 how many pedophiles are alive 1904 they're not do you see the specific question here this is almost always evidence of of a like this is he's so bad faith he's trying so hard to like he's not engaging on the subject matter at all but the kid's doing a bad job at refocusing Charlie on like the subject matter it doesn't matter how many there were we could say for argument sake that there were none like this is just a hypothetical engage with this I meant like if you can go back in the past hypothetically speaking and you could put them in would you put them in I would have killed them myself if I was alive diversion that's a that was a red herring right you answer he he just did there was the red herring that he described earlier where you're answering a question that's like adjacent to what I'm saying but it doesn't really address what I'm saying which is would you do you think that these people were morally condemnable or or or legally condemnable and for you to say well I would have killed them that's not an answer that's a Hanan answer you're not you're that's literally a red herring right like if you can go back in the past hypothetically speaking and you could put them in prison would you put them in prison I would have killed them myself if I was alive okay so then so then you don't apply it based upon what people are deceived to believe you apply based what you consider imoral so women who had abortions you think they should go to prison so why women who get abortions go to prison but someone like my mom so he is making the correct argument he's just getting it's hard he has to force Charlie to engage here because Charlie is in he's in bad faith the kid is in like super debate mode and he needs to be in [ __ ] Wrangler mode unfortunately but it's Charlie's fault I because he's acting like a [ __ ] right well no no I'm sorry he's not acting [ __ ] he's acting a bad faith constructive debate if you keep on talking over me was finishing my Ste you were talking over me let me ask you a very simple question do you think it would be a good thing if we had less abortions in America um another this is another complete and total diversion off to a totally unrelated it's supped toid chenging him why questions here toally refocus theate depends on the are thetion prior to sentients yes all abortions yeah no it would not be necessarily unless it is the case that people didn't want the abortions and it would be negative impactful to their health medically are you against abortion uh after sence yes okay so you believe in an 8we abortion B yeah no no no I I don't sorry I believe in an abortion B after 18 through 26 weeks okay that's a more reasonable position I have to give you credit for that similar to Trum 15 weeks yeah so why do you think that most people don't you shouldn't let him say that it's a more reasonable position is it more reasonable to say that you should be able to murder children who are 2 years old but not 3 years old would you say that's a more reasonable position when people say things like that this isn't addressing his argument entirely but you can say that this speaks to their um it speaks to the intent of the arguments that you're making the fact that you would even say that that's a more reasonable argument seems to demonstrate a state of mind that doesn't believe that a fetus is a child because you would never make that argument if somebody said hold on excuse me you should never murder your three-year-old child if you want to murder your one-year-old child that's a lot more of a reasonable position maybe two one 2 years old it's more reasonable but not three right you would never say that you would say all of these are abhorent right share your view on that um well people just don't know really know what senen is there's not a lot of conversation about abortion and these conversations are very difficult like they're conceptually hard to go through and I understand why a lot of people don't understand their positions on it I think cut off thought we weren cutting people I was he got he got to dance away from that so much imagine debating college kids and losing as Charlie Kirk abortion how much has this topic been debated like Jesus he doesn't even know like well I know why I'm sorry it fits with exactly with what we were talking about at the beginning of the stream that these there's a reason why these people explicitly avoid challenging conversations because they know that they're wrong they know that they can't they they couldn't handle challenges to their positions 100% see you um so I just have one question there's like in any case you don't think there's any case where abortion should be legal there's a very very rare couple cases okay so you do think that a couple cases it is legal if if if section is it's going to be if the life of the mother is at risk and it can't be mitigated in any other way then you allow for an abortion this is an obvious position even religious people will have this position not going to save the mother's life and the mother's life is actually at risk which is debated amongst growing numbers of OBGYNs that is the only case where abortion should be should be now she's going to ask about the and incest exception probably but I don't know how that relates to that but say it is a growing consensus in the pro-life world that abortion is never medically necessary okay so if you had a daughter and she was 10 and she got raped and she was going to give birth and she if you're sincerely pro-life then the answer should obviously be no I'm sorry you can't have an abortion uh p insos is tragic and it is tragic but like you can't murder a human being because of another tragic event you just can't do that um he might try and weasel out of it the only good weasel out if you wanted to be bad faith maybe you can say um actually there are two no there are two bad faith arguments you can use the first bad faith argument you can use is well if they're a 10-year-old she probably can't deliver healthily anyway so you'd have to do the abortion just to save her life and then move on immediately and the second one is well maybe you would have to do the abortion but the fault of the abortion would be the person uh who got the lady pregnant so it would be murder still but the guy who got her pregnant would be the murderer but that wouldn't be true because there's other agents in between those choic but that'd be bad and then you move on quickly for these are like your only two like bad faith ways to to escape that argument but so if you had a daughter and he's totally going to bite the bullet no no Charlie KK is a coward he won't bite the bullet on any because he is a coward he was 10 and she got ried and she was going to give birth and she no wait oh and she was going to give birth and she was going to live would you want her to go through o she headed off one of the bad faith um retorts which was saying that we'll assume she's going to live through the birth and everything that was smart of her that was good foresight and she was going to give birth and she no wait oh and she was going to give birth and she was going to live would you want her to go through that and carry her that's awfully graphic it's no but it's a real life scenario that that's awfully graphic how dare you awfully graphic like in states where you try to make it so that mothers have to see a picture of an ultrasound or they have to see like a video of what a Ultra of a what an abortion procedure looks like also pivot diversion she should be calling that out too like what what does it being graphic have to do with anything what are you talking about excuse me C-sections are very graphic by the way um you're literally cutting into somebody's stomach and uterus to get a baby out you got to push aside a whole bunch of [ __ ] to do this it's pretty gross you want her to go through that and carry her that's a graphic it's no but it's a real life scenario that happens to many people the answer is yes the baby would be delivered oh he bid the bullet good job wow okay he's uh how how many se's do you go down he's got like a C7 and a C6 vertebrae okay spine is barely materializing at the base of his what however far down your spine goes I don't know oh okay great so I that's insane um but let me tell you why no hold on let me ask you o she needs to be ready for him to buy the bullet on that though right some a consistent pro life person will bite the bullet on oh that blew her mind she wasn't expecting him to bite the bullet on that though she was expecting to fight from that point oh no the answer is yes the baby would be delivered oh okay great so I that's insane um but let me tell you why no hold on let me ask you a question there's two ultrasounds I have one is a baby conceived in one is a baby conceived by a loving couple which one is which which person which person here Jesus Christ she's getting crazy at homing um okay Charlie is giving the correct answer here there is no difference you can't murder one because you don't like the fact that it was conceived in a rap versus not yeah tell me which one was going see by you don't know exactly because it's all human rights doesn't matter but it's about your daughter who's pass to give birth to it and it's going to be tortured by that for the rest of her life that's going to take away every freedom she's ever going to have Jesus Christ bro chill also the only women no offense the only women that talk about child birth like this are always women that have never had kids before by the way okay this is an unhinged take but okay that's going to ruin her life she's going to grow up and she's going to be vitim crime the point is how you were conceived is irrelevant what human rights you get when hold on one second if a person can see them walks on the side of the street it's not like they don't get First Amendment rights or second amendment rights it's not about that person the wor how should she respond if he bites this bullet uh there is no response he should bite the bullet it's good to make him bite the bullet just to acknowledge it but there I mean that's he has to just shows the consistency of his position thing to do to that the daughter is to then say hey we're going to go murder the being inside of you they wouldn't even know like listen they they wouldn't know listen listen listen she's completely defeated on this point wouldn't it would be a better story say something evil happened and we do something good in the face of evil instead of saying we're going to do evil and then murder the being because we're going to we're going to we're going to Pander to the evil no what makes what makes the West great is that we good after evil not evil after evil it's not about the being and the the cell it's not about no no no I'm speaking notice the difference though it's funny he's very happy now to stay on this subject he'll sit here for as long as possible because he knows he's won this argument he's not pivoting or asking her questions or moving off to a totally different subject he's going to stay on this particular talking point my guess would be for as long as possible because he knows he's won this right here no I'm speaking no I'm speaking no I'm speaking no I'm speaking no I'm speaking no I'm speaking no I'm speaking no I'm speaking thank you so it's not I'm not talking about that I'm talking about the person no I'm talking about the person who is dealing with the pregnancy I am not talking about the cells I don't I don't listen the fetus or whatever I don't care about that right now until it is formed if there is a if there is a 5-year-old child who is pregnant and the baby is 2 weeks actually they have and they have given birth there is one there is one recorded case of a 5-year-old girl who gave birth is that is that yes not it's 5-year-old get sometimes and if they get pregnant I think they should be able is it really that common that 5-year-olds are getting my God to have medical access to something that could save not only just their life but like their livelihood how many how many I'm curious how I hope your daughter lives a very happy life and gets away from you so that is really nasty and so her her belief system just so we're clear is that yeah no I got it it's fine I mean oh my God that's insanely nasty and we'll talk again my next claim is that college is a scam I'm madx how are you doing you so college is a SC madx well let's define our terms College being traditional for your College University not Community College or Technical College of course a scam we can agree on a definition is where a majority of people remember he defines it that way because at some point he's going to bring up trade school it's always trade school it every single person who has an Ivy League education whose children are going to Ivy League schools and who works in companies with all of their ivy league educated colleagues always advocates for trade school by the way don't ever forget that and before TR Kirk actually G up us a plumber oh my God we found a College Dropout okay good job he briefly attended Harper College a junior community college near Chicago but dropped out without having completed any degree or certificate usually these guys are all um Ivy Leaguers I remember I looked up um not Michael it was Kevin nolles no Michael nolles not Kevin because he had made some comments about education I was going to bully him on this but we never actually argued about it oh this guy I think him and his wife he got a ba in history and Italian from Yale I think his wife went to a decent school as well spouse oh [ __ ] I don't know if she's listed here but who will go through the institution or business uh they're not getting their money's worth their time's worth um and they're being deceived when they sign up so do we agree on those terms yeah perfect okay well what would further definitions what do you think is the purpose of going to college the purpose of college should be a traditional liberal arts education pursuit of what is good true and beautiful that's not what it is uh it should be the betterment of yourself and your soul U nurturing your character uh becoming a better citizen understanding the deeper things in life at the very least though it should be preparing one for the job market do you think Toge does those things I think it does uh but I would add on to your point that I think not only is it for the betterment of yourself but it's for the betterment of society we need historians we need certain majors that may not make as much money I think those are for the betterment of society would you agree that there's some Majors that may not make money but are still essential to do you think that getting a degree in gender studies is good for society uh I would agree yeah why why would studying gender not be good for well learning that men can give birth is not exactly a good use of time is how many abortions are third trimester abortions it's like less than 1% but that's all conservatives talk about how many degrees are gender studies degrees like who how many like how many people go to how many people do you know they go to college for gender studies is that what they're teaching in college right now according to the center of Disease Control they no longer say women can give birth they say birthing persons okay do you think men can give birth do I think men can give birth I think that the best exam the best counterargument here God now I'm I can't wait to use this against a conservative except I'll never debate a real one again because they're all cowards is while I'm not sure do you think that Iman khif can give birth wait a second what do you mean the boxer yeah she's isn't she male cuz she had XY chromosomes right but I think she might also have like a uterus and stuff so can she get birth yes or no and then if she Canen is she a male or is she something in between are you going to say there's more than two genders now or is she a woman with XY chromosomes and now you're going to break that mold or like what God that would be such a great response can can can Iman Khalif become pregnant and is she a man or a woman or no question I think that a person who is assigned male at Birth I don't think they assign male at Birth so people are not male at Birth I think that a person your evidence that college is a scam my friend college is a scam you're not you're lacking in a lot of we can continue right now so gender studies do you think that studying gend is uh uh not Essential should we not deepen our uh there is a there is an argument to be had actually down this road that you can defend if you want to be more radical not even more radical you can the general education is important it he is right but it's not this isn't the time we place to have that debate but first of all I don't think gender we're gonna get there later I don't think gender exists I think that there are two Sexes infinite personalities and no genders however let's get back to the core conten you're gon ask my question again real quick well I'm going to get back to my core contention a scam so the majority of kids that go to college if they end up getting a job at all they end of getting a job that doesn't require college degree do you think that certain jobs that may not associate with a direct major can incorporate skills that you learn from a major I think I'm personally I'm an econ major and depending on what job I do in the future I can you know what just popped into my head you know how to be really curious how a conservative would answer this when people talk about high skill versus low skill immigrants what's the difference between that how do you know which immigrant is a high skill immigrant versus a low skill immigrant are we just going by prior job history or are we factoring in educ training at all here or is it literally just have they already had the job I'd be really curious what the response as PR conservative so tell me about Milton Freedman tell me about Milton freedan he is an economist from how about Thomas Soul Thomas Soul lud vanus lud well I will say God I would love to ah again real quick want to get back to my core contention a scam so the majority of kids that go to college if they end up getting a job at all they end up getting a job that doesn't requ college degree do you think that certain jobs that may not associate with a direct major can incorporate skills that you learn from a major I think I'm personally I'm an econ major and depending on what job I do in the future I can still use the skill so tell me about Milton freedan tell me about Milton Freeman he is an economist from how about Thomas Soul Thomas Soul lud vus well the response here should be I didn't go to school for economics I don't know the answer to any of these things but the reason why it's important to go to school is because if you don't uh you could just like learn names of these people not know anything about what they actually teach right you just named three economists what does it mean when we talk about elasticity of demand what is quantitative easing what's the relationship between um you know a country's monetary policy and you know like a gold standard or gold Reserve or what does reserve currency mean what does fiat currency mean or like if you would ask him any Econ like one1 question one1 or even he would have no idea and be like oh okay interest you've read all these Economist but you don't know well I don't know I'm curious would do you answer any of these I say that but maybe trying to think I've ever seen Charlie Kirk debate anything of substance my entire life obviously do your homework before you ask these questions cuz you don't want you don't want to know and then you get but first I'd love to see you answer the gender studies question we will get there later um well I think it's difficult to think about just one major thinking about just gender studies like sure like not everyone should be a gender Studies major we need doctors we need lawyers we need everything however why does it matter if 10 people want to be a gender Studies major and it matters to them like not everyone can be a lawyer not everyone can be a doctor there needs to be some people and you know what yeah it sucks that some people do go to college and get a degree and then they end up not in a Workforce for that but I don't think that has to do with like college was a scam it's more like maybe that just wasn't the path for them or that life chice none of these guys know any of the numbers or stats either like college degrees still confer an economic Advantage even if you don't go to even if you don't get a job in you're declared major even if you do get the gender studies degree you're still doing better on average in the high school grad it just too hard to get for them but some people are able to go to college and get a degree and use it and that is super important because imagine if no doctors went to college was like I think I can do it of course doctors and lawyers need credentialing right butle well less than 5% of people that go to college end up studying medicine or illegal the vast majority go into soft social sciences Communications with Humanities so you're in college or have been is that correct yeah are you forced to take classes that you think are a waste of time yeah I'm hold on so they're taking your money and they're forcing you that they're a waste of time that's kind of scammy right oh I think that some classes some have been is that correct yeah the vast majority go into soft social sciences Communications with Humanities so you're in college or have been is that correct are you force to take classes that you think are a waste of time yeah I'm hold on so they're taking your money and they're forcing you that they're a waste of time that's kind scam you right oh I think that some classes some so you have to plug on debt right depends okay are you going are you going into debt no okay that's good I pick the school it's also funny because technically all of us exist in the realm of like squarely like liberal arts is kind of things right me Charlie Kirk like what do we do we're doing like Communications political science the whatever like these kind of like broad like liberal artsy things we're not doing engineering we're not doing any hard science stuff we're not doing any medical research uh we're not doing any like applied sciences like like we exists solely in this realm but then the thing he goes to to [ __ ] on college is all of the stuff that is in the realm of like everything he does it reminds me when Candace Owens was sitting next to me and I was like what did you go to school for and she was like journalism I was like well haven't you used that in your life and she's like what do you mean how have I ever used my journalism degree I'm like what what what aren't you a journalist There are rules that work college is every single person that I went to school with is not using the degrees that they paid for what did you go to col what journalism isn't that what you're doing right now what do you mean that actually offered me a scholarship some El oh I I don't know depends on me I mean that's that wanted to give me an opportunity but that's not what we're talking about we're talking about the scam element right so you said someone else is paying for my college yes kind of like how after I get my college degree and I start paying taxes I'm paying for somebody else's college or I'm paying for somebody else's welfare I'm paying for um your company to have tax breaks so that you can reinvest and grow your business or I'm paying for the roads that are allowing your employees to get to work or I'm paying for yeah I mean yes hello welcome to taxation yeah there are some classes that students had to go into debt or had to pay for would not be a good use of their time so it's not representing students well well do you think like high school is a scam then because I had to pay for high school but I didn't I'm not going to use AP US History in my psychology degree ever I think AP US History is actually a really good use of time knowing about your country and your history and well I'm not going to use that in my career that's what we're talking about in the career path College why are we saying why is aush a good use of your time that's not preparing you for a job you don't need to know the order of the presidents to to to to get a you know 80,000 90,000 a year job out of college why does that matter wait so are there some then are there something Wait So when you say you don't like a gender studies degree are you worried about college and it being a scam and all that