Up Next
Jennifer Faumuina Details DNA Evidence Collection in Tyler Robinson Trial at Utah Valley University
14:22
State of Utah Versus Tyler James Robinson Court Hearing Outlines Path Forward in High-Profile Case
10:30
Agent David Hull Traces Tyler Robinson's Four Campus Visits Through UVU Surveillance Footage Leading to September 2025 Assassination
34:50
Cross-Examination of FBI Agent David Hull Reveals Critical Timeline Gaps in Tyler Robinson Investigation
Defense attorney Katherine Nester cross-examines FBI Agent David Hull during Tyler Robinson's preliminary hearing, exposing significant investigative gaps including the absence of bullets or casings on the Losee Building roof, conflicting witness descriptions, and the fact that law enforcement didn't know the shooter's identity until Robinson voluntarily surrendered to authorities three days after the incident. The prosecution presents enhanced surveillance video from Utah Valley University showing Robinson's movements on campus, while the defense challenges the authenticity and completeness of the evidence timeline.
Investigation Leadership and Initial Response
FBI Agent Hull testified that he arrived at Utah Valley University approximately an hour after the shooting occurred, around 1:30 PM on September 10th. He wasn't officially placed in charge of the scene until roughly 2:30 PM, two hours after Charlie Kirk had been removed from campus. During this time, hundreds of law enforcement officers—potentially up to a thousand—responded to what was initially treated as an active shooter situation on campus.
Agent Hull explained that his primary focus upon taking command was assembling an investigative team through their major crimes unit and developing a comprehensive plan. The known crime scenes included the amphitheater area where the tent was located, the Losee Building rooftop, and an area beside that building. Despite extensive searching, no bullets or casings were found on or immediately around the Losee Building roof.
Multiple Persons of Interest Detained
In the hours following the shooting, law enforcement detained several individuals for questioning. One person was initially taken into custody as a potential suspect but was later cleared and released. Agent Hull confirmed that this individual was not the shooter, acknowledging that the initial arrest was incorrect. Several other persons of interest were also interviewed and ultimately cleared during the investigation.
Investigators confiscated at least two firearms on the scene that day—one handgun found in a backpack and potentially others. Off-duty Utah Highway Patrol Trooper Noah Gonzalez, who was present at the event, reported finding a gun in a holster in the amphitheater area, though Agent Hull initially didn't recall this detail until shown the investigative report.
Surveillance Video Timeline Construction
The prosecution presented two versions of compiled surveillance footage from UVU: State's Exhibit 12.1 (enhanced with zooming, red highlights, and some blurred faces) and State's Exhibit 12.4 (unaltered raw footage). Both were admitted into evidence, though the court limited public broadcast of the enhanced version to prevent potential jury prejudice.
The surveillance video captured Robinson's movements during what Agent Hull described as four separate visits to campus on September 10th and 11th. The footage showed Robinson arriving in a distinctive vehicle around 8:30 AM on September 10th, visiting the amphitheater area where Turning Point USA had set up, then leaving around 9:25 AM. He returned on foot around 10:00 AM, visited Chick-fil-A in the Sorenson Center, moved through various buildings, and was seen near the Losee Building stairs before leaving campus around 11:00 AM.
Critical Moments on the Losee Building Roof
The most significant footage showed Robinson returning to campus a third time around 12:15 PM on September 10th, now walking with a noticeable limp and wearing different clothing than earlier. Video captured him climbing the external staircase to the Losee Building roof, rolling over the railing, running to the southwest corner, and assuming a prone position at approximately 12:22 PM.
Agent Hull testified that Robinson remained in the prone position for approximately 15-30 seconds. At 12:23:28 PM, the reported shot was fired. The individual then stood up, moved across the building, and jumped off the northeast corner of the roof at 12:24:42 PM. In the zoomed video, Agent Hull noted that Robinson appeared to be carrying a long, black object in his hand—first clearly visible when he was on the white triangular portion of the roof preparing to jump.
Post-Shooting Movements and Vehicle Stop
After jumping from the roof, surveillance video captured Robinson crossing Campus Drive and entering a wooded area on the northeast side of the campus. Within minutes, at approximately 12:30 PM (early morning hours of the 11th, according to testimony), Spanish Fork Police Officer Goforth encountered a vehicle matching Robinson's description at the intersection of Campus Drive and 800 South.
Officer Goforth made note of the partial license plate during this interaction. When information later emerged about a vehicle matching that description being involved in the incident, he ran the partial plate and identified two registered owners: Tyler Robinson and Amber Robinson. Officer Goforth confirmed he had interacted with a male he believed to be Tyler Robinson during that stop.
Defense Challenges to Evidence
Defense attorney Katherine Nester raised several critical points during cross-examination. She established that the video of the person on the roof showed no distinguishing facial features or clothing details—only after Robinson jumped could investigators observe what appeared to be a pattern on the front of his shirt. Two young men who photographed someone on the roof approximately 10 seconds before the shooting initially believed it was police overwatch for the event.
Nester also highlighted that no one driving by on Campus Drive reported seeing someone carrying a gun, despite Agent Hull's testimony that Robinson crossed the road holding a long black object. The defense attorney pointed out that while the prosecution claimed Robinson held a firearm, no actual gun was visible in the video—only an object Agent Hull interpreted as potentially being a firearm based on his training and experience.
Timeline of Identification
A crucial revelation emerged during cross-examination: law enforcement did not know the shooter's identity until Tyler Robinson voluntarily surrendered to authorities. Agent Hull confirmed that as of September 11th, when Robinson turned himself in, investigators had only identified a "person of interest" based on images released to the press—primarily from the parking garage stairwell footage.
No formal documented timeline had been prepared before Robinson's voluntary surrender on September 11th. Sergeant Bricker later compiled a timeline that Agent Hull incorporated into his September 14th report. Agent Hull acknowledged that he developed his own comprehensive timeline over the course of the investigation after extensive video review.
Robinson's Voluntary Surrender
Tyler Robinson voluntarily turned himself in at the Washington County Sheriff's Office on September 11th, 2025. He was accompanied by his parents and facilitated by someone known to the family who had connections to law enforcement—reportedly one of Robinson's former Boy Scout leaders. Agent Hull confirmed that Robinson drove himself (or was driven by his parents) to the sheriff's office and walked in peacefully, exactly as he had indicated he would do.
Agent Hull testified that Robinson informed his immediate family that he had been involved in the shooting and wanted to surrender. No law enforcement officers arrested Robinson at his home; the entire surrender was coordinated voluntarily. This marked the first time investigators had a name attached to the individual they believed was responsible for Charlie Kirk's death.
Forensic Evidence from Autopsy and Scene
Agent Hull was not present at Charlie Kirk's autopsy but met with the medical examiner afterward. The examiner provided fingerprints, autopsy photos on CD, and bullet fragments collected during the examination. Agent Hull confirmed that Mr. Kirk's personal items were also transferred through chain of custody to be returned to his family.
Defense attorney Nester questioned whether Agent Hull had shared the investigation's conclusions with the medical examiner before the autopsy report was prepared, suggesting potential bias in the examiner's findings. Agent Hull maintained he had not provided investigative information to the examiner, though he acknowledged not knowing how the examiner learned about the case details referenced in the autopsy report.
Ring Camera Evidence and Witness Descriptions
Investigators obtained ring camera footage from a neighbor named Miss Noble, which captured a vehicle believed to be Robinson's on the night of the incident. During the verification interview, the Noble family reported that the driver of the vehicle was bald and that three other people were in the car. Agent Hull acknowledged this testimony during cross-examination, though he had not mentioned these details during his direct testimony.
This description conflicted with other evidence and raised questions about vehicle identification. The defense used this discrepancy to challenge the prosecution's timeline and the reliability of witness observations in identifying Robinson's movements on the night of September 10th-11th.
Scene Preservation and Evidence Collection
Multiple law enforcement agencies participated in securing and processing the crime scene. Agent Hull confirmed that K9 units were present on campus, possibly used in an attempt to track the individual who jumped from the roof, though no results from this effort were presented. The tent and related materials from the amphitheater remained in place for at least a couple of days after the incident.
Agent Hull was not involved in decisions about when to remove the tent or in UVU's subsequent decision to pave over the dirt area beneath it. He learned about the paving only through news reports. The defense raised concerns about evidence preservation, particularly regarding the quick removal and alteration of the crime scene area.
Public Tips and Alternative Suspects
Law enforcement received numerous tips from the public in the days following the shooting, including information about online death threats made against Charlie Kirk prior to his death. These tips were processed through Utah's State Information and Analysis Center before being distributed to various investigative entities for follow-up.
Multiple people contacted authorities claiming to recognize individuals in the released surveillance images, offering potential suspect identifications. Agent Hull confirmed that all credible tips were followed up on to the best of law enforcement's ability, though he did not personally investigate most of them. Each lead that appeared relevant to either the investigation or represented a credible threat was managed by appropriate law enforcement entities.
The Opaque Banner and Line of Sight
During redirect examination, prosecutors addressed questions about the white banner that formed the back of the pop-up tent where Charlie Kirk was speaking. Agent Hull confirmed the banner was opaque—observers could not see through it from either the audience side of the amphitheater or from the tunnel side behind it. Charlie Kirk would not have been visible to anyone on the other side of this banner.
In the extended surveillance footage from the tunnel (breezeway underneath the Hall of Flags), the video showed consistent movement behind the banner area in the time leading up to the shooting. Representatives from Turning Point USA, law enforcement officers, and possibly student body members were moving back and forth, with some individuals retrieving items from vehicles. This testimony established that the area behind the tent was active with multiple people, contradicting any suggestion of a clear, static scene.
Robinson's Physical Condition Changes
A notable observation in the surveillance footage was Tyler Robinson's changing physical condition throughout the day. When Robinson first arrived on campus around 8:30 AM, he walked normally. However, when he returned around 12:15 PM for his final visit, he was walking with a pronounced limp or altered gait.
Significantly, Agent Hull testified during redirect that after Robinson stood up from the prone position on the roof and ran across the Losee Building, there was "no longer a visible input gate" or limp. From the time he rolled over the railing onto the roof until he was last seen in that segment of video, Robinson moved without any apparent physical impairment. The temporary nature of this limping raised questions about whether it was genuine or possibly part of an attempt to alter his appearance.
Weapon Recovery in Wooded Area
A rifle was eventually discovered in the wooded area where surveillance video showed Robinson entering on at least two separate occasions—once during his second campus visit and again immediately after the shooting. The weapon was found on September 10th in the same wooded area located on the northeast side of Campus Drive where Robinson was captured on video descending after crossing the road.
Agent Hull confirmed that the wooded area where the rifle was recovered was the same location investigators had identified through video footage review as being "potentially of evidentiary value." The area was secured, and law enforcement was notified when the weapon was located. Agent Hull was not personally involved in the search for or processing of the recovered rifle.
Enhanced Video Technical Specifications
The enhanced surveillance video (State's Exhibit 12.1) included several modifications to the raw footage. Red oval or circular highlights were temporarily overlaid on the video to identify specific individuals of interest—these circles appeared and disappeared throughout the footage. Some faces in the parking garage footage were blurred to protect the identities of bystanders not involved in the investigation.
The most significant enhancement was the zooming in and out, particularly focused on the Losee Building rooftop sequences. Agent Hull testified that these zoomed portions provided much greater clarity than the original focal point, allowing viewers unfamiliar with the area to track Robinson's specific movements with more precision. The zooming made it "a lot clearer to see" Robinson carrying what appeared to be a long, black object in his hand.
Agent Hull confirmed that none of these enhancements changed the content or accuracy of the underlying video footage. The modifications were purely for clarity and identification purposes. UVU security footage specialist Mr. Olsen provided a written statement (State's Exhibit 12.3) certifying that the recordings in 12.1 were "true and accurate, including timestamps, dates, and camera labels," with the only changes being "some zooms and red highlights which were not part of the original recording."
Officer Weapon Clearing Protocol
When questioned about an unfired bullet found elsewhere on campus, Agent Hull explained standard law enforcement weapon-handling procedures. He testified that officers typically carry rifles in what's called "cruiser ready" condition—meaning there's no round chambered. When an officer deploys with a rifle, they chamber a round. After completing their task, proper protocol requires ejecting the magazine and ejecting the chambered round.
Agent Hull acknowledged from personal experience that during this clearing process, "rounds are dropped or not accounted for" occasionally. Given that hundreds of law enforcement officers responded to the active shooter call and cleared the entire UVU campus with rifles, the discovery of a single unfired round was consistent with standard weapon-clearing procedures. This explained why the bullet was considered "accounted for" and not treated as evidence related to the shooting.
Multiple Camera Angles from Visual Impulse
Turning Point USA's video production company, Visual Impulse, provided four separate video recordings to investigators. Only one of these videos—the angle taken from behind Charlie Kirk while he was speaking, looking out at the audience—was shown during the preliminary hearing. Agent Hull confirmed that additional camera angles and footage existed that had not been displayed in court.
The Visual Impulse footage that was shown captured the moment of the shooting from a direct angle behind Kirk, showing his security team and the audience. This footage provided a different perspective from the UVU surveillance cameras, offering potential corroborating evidence about timing and the shooting's effects. The prosecution's decision to present only one of the four Visual Impulse videos suggested they were strategically selecting which evidence to introduce at this stage of the proceedings.
Video Transcript
Mr. Sturgil, your witness.
>> Thank you, Judge.
Uh, Agent Hull, we're going to return to
uh what has been Mark Stakes exhibit
12.1.
There was reference to it yesterday. Uh,
and I' I'd like to ask you again, uh,
have you reviewed that exhibit?
>> Yes.
>> And if you wouldn't mind just briefly
remind us what that uh, exhibit consists
of.
>> The exhibit is a compilation
Okay,
>> your honor. Excuse me. We can't hear the
>> That's That's what I hear. So, let's go
ahead and stop. I I'm not hearing it.
So, let's
>> I'm going to have you repeat. Let's test
it. Go ahead.
>> Check.
>> All right. I believe that.
>> Thank you.
>> Mr. Sturgil, if you wouldn't mind
restarting.
>> I can do that, Judge. Thank you.
>> Maybe bring the mic from the base a
little bit closer to you. That'll help.
>> All right. All right, let's go ahead and
go back to uh what's been marked as
states exhibit 12.1. Uh I'd asked you uh
a moment ago if you'd reviewed that
exhibit.
>> Yes, I have.
>> Okay. And uh would you just remind us uh
what that exhibit consists of?
>> It's a compilation of videos that were
part of the overall footage that was
obtained from the Utah Valley University
as part of the investigation.
And does that compilation video uh uh
from your point of view capture Mr.
Robinson arriving to and visiting the
UVU campus?
>> It does. Yes.
>> On September 10 on September 10th
through the 11th, 2025.
>> Correct.
>> Okay. And and again, I asked you this
question yesterday, but did you prepare
that video compilation?
>> I did not.
>> Okay. Do you know who did?
>> Uh the Utah County Attorney's Office.
>> Yeah. Does uh does that video and and
I'm referring to 12.1 exhibit uh states
exhibit 12.1
uh uh does it uh include all of the
footage collected by the FBI from UVU?
>> Uh it does not. No.
>> Does that video again 12.1 include all
of the footage you collected from UVU
that captures who you believe is Mr.
Robinson walking around campus?
>> Not all of the footage. No.
You reviewed this compilation with Mr.
Olsen, correct?
>> Correct.
>> And in its entirety.
>> Yes.
>> And uh he actually And then you
collected an 1102 statement from him.
>> I did. Yes.
>> And and I believe that has actually been
admitted in evidence as states exhibit
12.3.
Uh did did Mr. Olsen uh refer to that
exhibit 12.1 in his statement?
>> He did. Yes. Okay.
12.3.
I'm going to put on your monitor states
exhibit 12.3.
And I'd ask that you scroll down towards
the very bottom. And I I would ask that
you read from the statement,
specifically what Mr. Olsen said about
states exhibit 12.1. And and I I want to
narrow your focus. So I'm going to draw
your attention uh about threequarters
down the page. There's a sentence that
begins on the left margin. I have
reviewed. Do you see that?
>> I do. Yes.
>> Okay. Would you please read that
sentence?
>> I have reviewed states exhibit 12.1 and
the recordings are true and accurate,
including timestamps, dates, and camera
labels. The only changes are some zooms
and red highlights which were not part
of the original recording.
>> Okay. Which
>> have you I'm sorry.
>> Sorry. I didn't know if you wanted me to
continue or
>> No, that's that's good enough. Have you
uh have you had a chance um well you you
review the raw footage yourself? Is that
correct?
>> Correct.
>> And and does does that uh comport with
with your uh viewpoint of that exhibit?
>> It does. Yes.
>> Have you had a chance to refer or I'm
sorry review what's been marked as
states exhibit 12.4.
>> Uh yes.
>> Okay. And when did you review that
exhibit?
>> Uh this morning. And who did you review
that exhibit with?
>> Uh, with Kimberly Duffflow.
>> Was there any conversation about that
exhibit?
>> Uh, no. I was just shown the video.
>> Okay. Nobody asked you questions or
suggested anything to you?
>> They did not. No.
>> The um Did Did you prepare that exhibit?
>> I did not.
>> Do you know who did?
>> Uh, the Utah County Attorney's Office.
>> All right. and and I'm referring
specifically to what's been marked
states exhibit 12.4.
Uh what what is depicted in that video?
Uh that video is again a compilation of
uh videos from the overall footage that
was obtained from Utah Valley University
for September 11th and September 12th.
>> And and how does it compare to what's
been marked as states exhibit 12.1?
>> Uh it appears to be the same footage.
Um, however, on this particular version,
there were no um circles or blurs that
had been made to the video.
>> How about zooming in and zooming out?
>> Uh, no, there was no zooming or zooming
out.
>> Does it uh appear um to be identical to
to the raw footage that you've seen that
portrays this particular part of the UVU
surveillance video?
>> It does. Yes.
Judge, the state uh would move to admit
West was memark stakes exhibit 12.4.
And
>> your honor, we just object to the
publication of this for all the reasons
we argued yesterday. We think this uh
video is um going to play a big role in
the trial and to allow the public to see
it now would uh seriously impact our
ability to get a fair trial and we're
asking the court not to publish it.
>> Thank you. And Mr. s and to all council
um as it will apply to all council when
you are moving a piece of evidence uh
it's it's the three parts whether
admissibility into the record
>> to be published in the courtroom to be
published in the courtroom and captured
by the media so Mr. Sturggil, as it's
your request, what what are you
requesting?
>> First of all, I clearly had moved to
admit the exhibit. I'd ask and judge,
the presumption is that this is is a is
a public record and should be published.
And so our our the state's position is
is that it should be published here in
the courtroom and it should be published
in such a way that that the media can
can capture it on video.
>> All right.
>> Your honor, can I be on that?
You may if you would approach the
elector please and state your name.
>> I'm David Ryman. I represent the news
media. I didn't make an appearance
because the news media technically
aren't parties but as you know they do
have the right to be heard on issues
like this and I've tried to keep that to
a minimum. But since this is the first
one coming up today, I thought it might
be helpful to just address it again. Um
there is a presumption not just that it
be published in the courtroom as we
talked about yesterday because the
participants or the the spectators in
the courtroom um have a right to know
what the court is viewing so that they
can understand how you're making your
decision. This seems like a very
important piece of evidence. It doesn't
seem like there is a a basis to keep the
people who are in the courtroom today
from understanding why um it's being
introduced. It is not like the videos
yesterday. And my understanding at least
is in fact, you can correct me if I'm
wrong, but we didn't object to the
videos that weren't published yesterday
that were graphic. We didn't object to
the non-publication of the autopsy
report. this the argument here that Miss
Netor just made is this seems really
relevant and that is precisely why it
needs to be public with the last thing
I'll I'll address is just EMC. Um this
there is a presumption it's a rule
presumption not a constitutional one
that EMC is allowed. Um and I think that
for all of the reasons that we've we've
briefed this for your honor several
different ways there needs to be a
really good reason why. um you know if
it's being published in a public
proceeding in the courtroom it should
not also be um and it should not also be
allowed to be um published to the media.
So
>> thank you.
>> Thank you.
>> Mr. Sturgil, did you wish to respond or
perhaps uh give a little bit more detail
on what this video purports to show?
Well,
um, do you want me to pray for that,
judge, or have the witness?
>> I'll defer to you.
>> Okay. Um, well, first of all, if I could
take one step back. Uh, let me ask you,
um, I may have misheard, but let's just
be clear about this video, the
compilation video. It includes video
surveillance from UVU campus from what
dates?
>> Uh, September 10th, 2025 into the
morning of the 11th, 2025.
And uh if you wouldn't mind uh just
describe in a bit more detail uh what
this compilation includes.
>> Uh the compilation uh shows the
movements of the individual believed to
be Mr. Robinson on Utah Valley
University campus. Uh arriving and
leaving in a vehicle, arriving and
leaving on foot and then returning and
leaving and then attempting to gain
access again in a vehicle. and uh his
movements throughout the day uh are
included in the videos also.
>> Is there any uh footage of
of the of the alleged shooting?
>> There is not judge.
>> Okay. I just want to clarify that
Miss Netor given that additional
information and anything further from
defense.
Mr.
Mr. Bert's going to he's the one who's
been litigating all of the First
Amendment issues. If he could address
Mr. uh Ryman's argument.
>> Yes, Mr. Berts, if you wouldn't mind
coming forward.
>> Judge, I wanted to clarify one argument
uh that was made by council for the
media yesterday, and that was the rules
uh the rule 4-202.02 know to does not
apply to the situation we're in right
now and that is wrong. Uh the rule says
that this rule applies to the judicial
branch
and uh 4-202.02J
says the judge may regulate or deny
access to exhibits to ensure
a fair trial.
So I think that rule uh does apply to
our situation and the Supreme Court in
the Algier ALG
case 258 Pacific 3 589 applied the rule
in the context of an evidentary exhibit
and I know the court has not mentioned
since council made that argument this
particular rule but I think it does
apply here and also applicable is the
Supreme Court's decision in the Kern's
case which we talked about when We
argued the motion for denying access to
the cameras and that case uh Karns
versus Tribune Corporation 685 Pacific 2
515 says that the standard the court
ought to apply in determining whether an
exhibit at a preliminary hearing should
be sealed is
one of a quote realistic likelihood of
prejudice.
And we we rely on the evidentiary
showing we've made in connection with
our motion to exclude cameras that there
is a realistic likelihood of pre
prejudice. In this way, the court knows
and has access to the media coverage uh
up to the time when we litigated the
motion concerning uh closing this
hearing to the cameras. And the court
knows that one feature of the media
coverage has been a very prosecution
bias of every story that is that has
been published on this account. The
court also knows from that coverage that
that uh information is being widely
disseminated and you have found in
connection with the shackling issue that
the publicity in this case is likely to
reach jurors uh who will be part of our
jury pool.
And we've also submitted to the court a
public opinion survey which shows that
the me the prejuditial uh publicity that
the media has already generated in this
case has affected the jury pool. And so
those are all factors the court can
point to and rely on and conclude that
publication of this particular exhibit u
should not be allowed because there is a
realistic likelihood of prejudice to Mr.
Robinson's right to a fair trial. So
under that standard and under the rule,
the court ought to deny publication.
>> Thank you, Mr. Bur.
>> Thank you.
>> Any final
argument from the parties before the
court issues its ruling?
>> Your honor, can I be heard on that
briefly?
>> Uh, yes, you may.
>> Thank you, your honor. David Ryman. I um
I just wanted to clarify. I think I
don't know that Mr. Burton, I
necessarily disagree about what he said
about the rule. What we were talking
about yesterday was something different.
That is the portion of the rule that
classifies
um records that are in the court file.
You know, it's not the same as what
happens in a public hearing. And Mr.
Bert referenced the portion of the rule
that essentially just tracks the
constitutional standard which of course
you know controls here as to whether um
in this public proceeding it can be
closed in any way and non-publication of
of exhibits as a form of closure. So I
don't necessarily disagree. I would just
underscore a lot of what Mr. Burch has
said has been briefed at Nauseium at
this point. Um their position that
publicity is incompatible with um with a
fair trial. the Algy case he mentioned,
you know, it's I know that case. I
litigated that case. It involved a
confession that the court found public
because you have so many other tools to
seat a fair and impartial jury. And we
have cited that case repeatedly and so
has your honor, I think, recognized it
in your ruling saying pre-trial
publicity can coexist with um the
defendant's right to a fair trial. So,
the last thing I'll say is just that the
constitutional standard that I think
we're all agreeing applies here is is
weighty and difficult to overcome.
[snorts] And it is never satisfied, as
we've explained, by just generalized
assertions that there's a lot of
publicity out there. It's got to be
something really specific and they just
haven't made that showing. And I
certainly don't think that a video that
apparently just shows the defendant
walking around the UVU campus qualifies.
>> Thank you. Anything
further,
>> judge from the state? No. But I I think
I'd like to be crystal clear. You asked
if there's any portion of this video
that captures and I believe you asked of
of the actual shooting. Um it there's no
video of that. There is video, however,
and you've heard testimony related to
this, where uh the the shooter goes to
the top of the LOC building, goes out to
the edge of the building, low crawls,
and then leaves after what we assume is
the shot being fired. That's as close as
it gets. I don't know if that makes a
difference, judge. I just wanted to make
the record clear, and I want to be
crystal clear with your honor.
>> Thank you. I appreciate that uh
clarification uh as it is guiding for
this court and
making its ruling.
I turn to
Utah. Well, let's let me pull this up.
So, rule 4-202.02.
I go down to
Well,
first it says statement of the rule.
Uh, one, presumption of public court
records. Court records are public unless
otherwise classified by this rule. Two,
public court records. Public court
records include, but are not limited to,
and I'm going to go down to 2J,
exhibits, but the judge may regulate or
deny access to ensure the integrity of
the exhibit, a fair trial, or interests
favoring closure.
And the court recognizes the importance
of the constitutional rights of Mr.
Robinson being upheld and protected. At
the same time, the court also recognizes
the importance of transparency and a
proper balance to ensure that the
constitutional rights of all parties are
upheld.
As it relates to this exhibit, uh I
believe it's 12.4.
>> 12.4. Yes. Um based off the
representation of what is in that uh the
court differentiates this exhibit from
the exhibits from yesterday. namely
exhibit uh seven, exhibit 8
and exhibit 9 uh as those are different
in nature and those uh go to uh issues
relating to Utah Constitution Article 1
section 28 as it relates to the
declaration of rights of crime victims.
And the court also recognizes Utah rule
of evidence 11:02 as it that is the
foundation that's being laid uh for the
admission of this exhibit. Having taken
in consideration all factors, the court
rules that exhibit 12.4
is admitted into evidence and shall be
played in the courtroom and may be
broadcast by the media.
We can proceed.
>> Thank you, Judge.
Agent Hull, before we actually watch uh
states exhibit 12.4, I have just a few
questions. Yesterday, you testified at
the very beginning of your investigation
that you focused on the video that
captured the shooter on the top of the
Losi building. Is that correct?
>> Yes. I believe you also testified that
you began by working your way and and
this is what I remember you saying, so
correct me if I'm wrong, but you in
essence testified that you began with
that video and you started working your
way backward and forward with the UVU
surveillance video in an effort to trace
the shooter steps on campus. Is that
right?
>> Correct.
>> Okay. Would you mind explaining just in
a little bit more detail what you meant
by that tracking forward and backward on
that video?
>> Yeah, we had a we hadn't known um when
the shooting occurred
and and as the officer testified there
was a video of an individual on the roof
at the time of the shooting.
And so the philosophy that we applied
was to take what we knew and then work
that forward through the timeline and
backwards through the timeline to try
and establish um where the individual
had gone from the rooftop or how the
individual had come to be on the
rooftop.
>> And and did that, for lack of a better
term, did that bear fruit? It did. Did
you actually see from at least in part
where he came from and where that
shooter went?
>> Yes. More so where he came from. It was
very limited after the fact.
>> Okay. You you testified yesterday that
uh uh in reference I believe what's Mark
Stakes exhibit 21
um that you believe Mr. Robinson visited
campus at least four times on the 10th
and the 11th.
>> Correct.
>> And I think you re reaffirmed that
today. Did you do the Did you do the
same attempt that is to track Mr.
Robinson through UVU surveillance video
during each of those four visits?
>> Yes.
>> Or those other three visits, I guess.
>> Yes. On each occasion, we attempted to
follow the movements of of the
individual throughout campus.
>> And did you did you in fact see Mr.
Robinson on campus in surveillance video
that is not included in states exhibit
12.4?
>> Uh, yes. There is additional footage of
him on campus. Yes. Okay.
I'm going to have displayed on your
monitor.
What you're going to see is is a a
paused or a still image.
And I'm going to ask if you recognize uh
what you see that now, agent hall.
>> I do. Yes.
>> Okay. Do do you recognize what's
displayed on your monitor?
>> Yes. It's footage from uh the university
that was provided to us, particularly of
the parking structure.
>> Does it appear to be states exhibit
12.4?
>> It does. Yes.
>> So, I'm going to go ahead and uh I'm
going to have this video run and then if
you don't mind, as it's running, I'm
probably going to be asking you some
questions. And so, uh this video has no
audio. Is that right?
>> Uh no, there's no audio on the cameras.
>> Okay. Um, let's go ahead and start the
video.
>> Your honor, it's just not up on the
screen yet.
>> Let's go ahead and put it on all
screens.
>> No, I appreciate
>> it is uh so it is admitted and uh may be
published to the screens
and uh just want to make sure it's on
your screen agent. All right.
All right. Uh Mr. Sturgil, I'll you may
proceed.
>> Appreciate that, Judge. Thank you. Go
ahead.
Okay. What are we seeing here, Agent
Hall? Uh,
>> that's a vehicle is believed to belong
to Mr. Robinson arriving in the parking
garage on campus. At what time in the
morning? Is what? Well, what time of the
day?
>> Uh, it's approximately 8:30 in the
morning on September 10th, 2025.
>> And and what leads you to believe that
this particular vehicle belongs to Mr.
Robinson?
>> Uh, information uh that was provided um
regards to driver's license and
Department of Motor Vehicle records. a
vehicle fits the description of a
vehicle owned by Mr. Robinson.
>> Is is there anything unique about that
vehicle that stands out to you?
>> Uh the the shape of the vehicle is is
very distinct, but predominantly the
wheels were very distinctive on this uh
version of the vehicle.
>> Now, what do we see?
>> Uh the driver of the vehicle exits the
vehicle and then uh walks on foot to
exit the parking garage.
It's the individual in the the red
t-shirt and the shorts and the shoes.
>> And do you believe you recognize who
that person is?
>> Yes.
>> Who is that? I
>> believe that's Tyler Robinson.
>> Right. Where does he go from there?
>> Uh he heads out of the parking garage on
foot uh into the campus
um and actually goes to the quad area of
the campus.
At that time he makes contact with uh
some representatives from TPUSA
>> by quad area.
>> Sorry, the the amphitheater is is what
I've previously referred it to.
>> All right. So, he goes up onto campus,
visits the the the amphitheater area,
the courtyard or quad.
>> Correct.
>> Um and and then what do we see here now?
>> He returns on foot back to the same
vehicle.
>> And what time is he returning back to
the vehicle? Uh, it's about 9:25 a.m.
And where is this parking structure
located on campus? Uh
>> it's it's just off of campus drive. Um
it's a short walk from the from the
amphitheater.
>> What do we see now?
>> Uh that's the vehicle exiting with Mr.
Robinson driving the vehicle.
Now, what do we see?
>> This is Mr. Robinson returning to the
campus on foot from um the neighborhood
to the northeast. You can see he's
wearing the same clothing as in the
previous video,
and he's carrying a blue backpack.
>> Describe the clothing.
Uh, it's a maroon color t-shirt uh with
uh gray or olive colored shorts and then
Converse shoes.
>> And what time did he return to campus?
>> Uh, just after 10:00 a.m.
>> And does he leave the parking structure
eventually?
>> Uh, he does. Yes.
>> And during this visit, do you know where
he goes after he leaves the the parking
structure? Yes, we we're able to track
his movements on campus. He went to
Chick-fil-A
um in the Sorenson building.
>> Mhm.
>> And purchased some food, sat and ate the
food.
Then
>> I'm sorry.
>> Where did he purchase the food from?
>> Chick-fil-A in the Sorenson Center.
>> And And where is that in relation to the
the amphitheater or the the courtyard?
>> Uh it's it's kind of on the northeast
side of the amphitheater. It would be um
on the on the upper back edge of the
amphitheater, furthest away from where
the tent was that Mr. Ko was in.
>> And from there, where does he go?
>> Uh from there, he moves across campus uh
out across campus drive uh into a wooded
area on what would be kind of the
northeast side of Campus Drive.
Um then returns back onto campus. Um,
we noticed at this point that he's no
longer carrying the backpack that he was
originally wearing.
Uh, he moves through the Gunther
building and the computer science
building
>> and then
>> I'm sorry.
>> And then goes where?
>> Then goes across the
to the the railing that gives access to
the roof of the Loy building. From there
>> uh from there he comes uh back down the
stairs and uh walks off campus from that
point.
>> And and about what time was that that he
left campus that that second time? Do
you know?
>> Uh I believe it was approximately 11:00
a.m. or just after if I recall. I could
verify from my notes if you need an
exact time.
>> Uh yeah, if you don't mind
[snorts]
that'll help you remember. Refer to it.
Don't read it out loud.
Let me know when you've had a chance to
look at that, would you?
>> Were you able to uh refresh your memory
as far as the time?
>> I was. Yes.
>> And what what time was it? It was just
prior to 11:00 a.m. when he walked off
campus.
>> Okay. And before we go any further, the
the parking structure that that he left
initially, where is that parking
structure in relation to the LDS
Institute building?
>> I'm sorry, in relation to
>> the LDS Institute building on campus.
>> Um
I think it would be just to the north of
the LDS Institute building if I recall.
>> Do you recall whether it was adjacent to
the LDS Institute?
>> Yes, it is.
>> Okay.
All right. Um,
what what do we what do we see displayed
here now? Go ahead.
>> Uh, this is a video of Mr. Robinson
returning back to campus the same way
that he did previously on foot.
>> And this takes just a moment.
And why? Uh, well, let me ask you this.
You believe this is Mr. Robinson
returning to campus?
>> I do. Yes.
>> Okay. And and why do you believe it's
Mr. Robinson.
>> Uh, the shoes are the same and um the
images that we have
are
from from my viewing and and seeing Mr.
Robinson on the video, it's the same
person.
>> Uh, he's noticeably wearing different
clothing.
>> He is wearing different clothing. And he
also is walking with a gate or a limp in
this video.
>> With a gate or what? A
>> limp.
Now, what do we see? This is Mr.
Robinson coming up the stairs of the
parking structure.
Again, he seems to be having issues
walking.
And again, were we able to track So,
were we able to track Mr. Robinson
uh when he leaves this parking
structure?
>> Yes, we were able to.
>> Okay. So, when he leaves the parking
structure, where where does he go?
>> Uh he he comes up around Campus Drive.
As you can see on the video here, there
is a there is a cut through there north
of the Losi building. And that's Mr.
Robinson coming up the sidewalk. Uh he
has the noticeable gate or limp in his
walk. Um and then he moves south across
the
front of the Loy building
>> on the sidewalk.
>> Yes, correct.
>> Okay.
>> He would be the rear of the two
individuals in this particular video.
>> So So right now, if we were to break
this picture into quadrants, where where
would he where would he be? I who've
been in the top left quadrant walking to
the left of the image.
>> Now, now what do we see?
>> Uh this is an image looking across the
parking lot to the Losi building and Mr.
Robinson is appearing on the exterior
staircase which gives access to the Losi
building roof and and the area where the
railing was.
>> And again, let's break that image into
into quadrants. Where where would you be
located if you broke it into quadrants?
>> It's in the top right. And uh the
individual can be seen moving under the
notations that are on the video.
[clears throat]
>> And and what time is this?
>> Uh it's just afternoon about 12:15.
>> On what day?
>> On December
sorry December September 10th, 2025.
Okay.
>> What what just happened or what did we
just see happen? The individual actually
kind of rolls over the railing onto the
roof of the Losi building.
>> All right.
Um,
>> and again in the top left corner, the
individual is now seen running across
the rooftop of the Losi building
to what would be the southwest corner
of the building.
>> Mhm.
>> Uh, crouching down and then crawling to
the corner of the building.
And and this is at what time?
>> Um around 12:23.
I think the time stamp on the video is
12:22
>> on the 10th
>> on September 10th. Yes. 2024.
>> So we're clear. This is the roof of the
Losi building.
>> Correct.
>> Can you still see that individual?
>> Uh yes, you can. Lane prone.
You believe this to be Mr. Robinson?
>> I'm sorry.
>> You believe this to be Mr. Robinson?
>> I do. Yes.
>> And how long is he out there on the edge
of the building?
>> Um, just until the the reported shot was
fired at at 123 and 28. individual then
stands up and then moves across the
building to the north.
>> Is that what we're seeing happening
right now?
>> It is. Yes. They move behind the the
atrium area on the rooftop at the
northeast corner where the white
triangle is.
>> Do you see Mr. Robinson now?
>> I do. Yes. He's just arriving at the
corner of the building
almost top center of the image.
What are we seeing now?
>> Mr. Robinson lowering and jumping off of
the roof of the Loy Loy building onto
the grass area and then moving away
towards Campus Drive
and he appears to be carrying some kind
of an object in his hand at this time.
So he's approaching
>> campus drive
>> and again broken into quadrants. Where
is he currently?
>> In the top white right quadrant
>> and the time
>> uh it's 12:24 and 42 on the time stamp.
>> What do we see now? He then crosses
Campus Drive and drops down into the
wooded area on the far side of Campus
Drive.
>> And that is located in what part of the
video? What quadrant?
>> Uh it would have been just off center on
the top left side.
>> What do we see now?
>> Uh this is the intersection of Campus
Drive and 800 South. Um, there's a
vehicle attempting to turn right onto
Campus Drive.
Um, that's the vehicle that's driven by
Mr. Robinson.
>> And on this on the screen, where is that
vehicle that you're referring to
located? If you broke it into quadrants,
>> uh, it's on the left side on the on the
upper side, the upper quadrant.
>> Now, what do we see?
>> That vehicle is now pulling away and
heading east on 800 South.
And and why do you believe that that
vehicle was Mr. Robinson's vehicle?
>> Uh when that vehicle was stopped, it
actually made contact with an officer
who was doing security detail.
>> Okay. And do you know who that officer
is?
>> Officer Go forth.
>> Okay. And do you know which department
he works for?
>> Uh Spanish for police.
>> And did you have a conversation with Mr.
Go forth regarding
uh this interaction at that
intersection?
>> I did. Yes.
>> And and what time was that interaction?
I'm sorry. Did I ask you that? uh was
approximately 030 uh 12:30 a.m.
>> Uh on the 11th
>> on September 11th, 2025.
>> So you talked to officer Goforth about
that contact on the corner on that or
during I guess during the early morning
hours of the 11th,
>> correct?
>> And and what did Officer Go forth tell
you about that interaction? Uh it it was
an interaction that
I guess I guess cop intuition, but there
was something about the interaction that
made him make a note of for the license
plate of the vehicle. And then
subsequently um when information was
available that that vehicle or a vehicle
matching the the description of that was
involved in the incident, he ran the
information that he had obtained from
the stop and was able to identify that
it was uh registered to Mr. Robinson and
he had in fact had contact with Mr.
Robinson on the morning of September
11th, 2025.
>> The the information that he ran do do
you want information he when you say
that he ran information? Yes. He ran a
partial plate.
>> Okay.
>> A license plate.
>> Correct.
>> And and based on that partial license
plate, he was he was able to identify
the the owner of that vehicle.
>> Yes.
>> And did he tell you who the owner of
that vehicle was?
>> He did. Yes.
>> Okay. And who did he tell you that it
belonged to?
>> Said there were two registered owners of
the vehicle, Tyler Robinson and an Amber
Robinson.
>> Did he did he say anything about the
person that he actually interacted with?
>> Uh, yes. It was a male that he believed
to be Tyler Robinson.
Let's um let's return again to what's
been marked stakes exhibit 12.1
>> again you've reviewed that video.
>> Yes.
>> And the difference between 12.1 or
what's been marked stakes exhibit 12.1
and 12.4 for are are if I understand you
correctly are these enhancements that
we've been talking about.
>> Yes.
>> And and specifically what what be
specific
about the enhancements and let's go one
at a time.
>> Okay.
>> Um I think there's a reference to either
red circles or red highlights. I think
that's how uh Mr. Olsson described it.
Red highlights.
>> Yes.
>> Do you know do you know what he's uh
what is what's he referencing by the red
highlights or what do you believe he's
referencing? I believe he's referring to
red ovals or circles that were placed
over the image to identify specific
individuals of note.
>> And um these red circles are are they
are they permanent red circles? Are they
temporary?
>> I different.
>> I would assume they are temporary. I'm
I'm not very technological, but I
believe they would be overlaid over the
image.
>> And and I this is a is a bad question.
What I mean by that is is do they appear
and disappear quickly or or do they
linger or last for a period of time?
>> Um they're there for a notable period
but I I believe they come off the video
if but
>> All right. And um other than
well and and you said that the the
circles what do the circles do?
>> They identify an area or a person of of
interest within the video. And and other
than do that, do the circles or the
highlights um do they do anything with
regards uh to to the uh the video itself
as far as it accuracy?
>> Not to my knowledge. No.
>> Okay. The I think the next uh
enhancement that that has been mentioned
that we've talked about is there's some
blurring.
>> Yes.
>> Do do you know what that tell us what
that is? What blurring do you see in
state what's been marked as states
exhibit 12.1
uh that you now don't see in 12.4? for
>> if I recall, there were some individuals
uh in the parking garage footage and
their faces were blurred
>> is any anything other than faces being
blurred?
>> Uh not that I recall. No.
>> And and how often do you see the
blurring throughout the video?
>> I believe it's just in the in the
original sequence in the parking garage.
the um the other than the blurring um
does well does the blurring other than
obviously blur out part of the image
does it change or impact uh the the
accuracy in your mind of that part of
the compilation video?
>> Not to my knowledge. No.
>> And then the last thing is I believe is
there's some zooming in and zooming out
that's in 12.1 that has been removed uh
from 12.4. What can you tell us about
the zooming in and the zooming out?
>> Uh, predominantly it's in the area that
was uh referred to as viewing the Losi
building rooftop.
>> I believe it focuses on the area where
Mr. Robinson comes up the stairs and
onto the rooftop. Uh, those portions of
that particular footage were zoomed in
for clarity. Okay.
Other than other than zooming in and
zooming out um does does at least that
enhancement to the video does it change
uh the content of the video?
>> No.
>> The accuracy in the vid of the video in
your mind?
>> No.
>> Okay.
is the uh are the enhancements in states
exhibit well it's been marked as states
exhibit 12.1
uh are they helpful in any way or what
what do they add or or take away from
that video? I think for people who are
not familiar with with the area and
what's trying to be shown, they allow an
opportunity for people to look at an
individual who we believe to be Tyler
Robinson and also specific movements um
with more clarity than the original
focal point gives.
>> So, let's let's talk about the the
zooming in and the zooming out. It
sounds like it's specific to the the
Losi rooftop, if I understand you
correctly.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. And and I think we we've all
watched that exhibit.
>> Correct. Point4 and and although you can
see uh Mr. Robinson and his movements,
uh is it fair to say that it's difficult
to to really see what's going on?
>> That would be fair. Yes.
>> Okay. And and the the um the version
that's in 12.1,
does it does it facilitate at least that
part of the video um seeing Mr. Robinson
and and and tracking I guess his steps?
>> I believe so. Oh yes,
>> judge.
>> At this point, I think in combination
with yesterday uh the foundation that
was laid yesterday uh including uh the
written statement from Mr. Olsen, which
has been admitted into evidence and is
um well, it's already been admitted to
evidence. Uh we believe there's enough
foundation that uh at this point, we'd
also ask the court uh to admit uh what's
been March State's exhibit 12.1. We
think it would be um well beneficial for
your honor to view it.
>> Miss Netor.
>> Thank you, your honor. We renew our
authenticity objection and we also
object to the for admission purposes and
then we also object to the um
publication for the same reasons the
fair trial issues that we raised with
the unaltered version um that was just
submitted. And judge, sorry, I neglected
to to mention the other two. Again,
judge, we believe that the the
presumption is is that this is a public
record. Uh that it should be not only
admitted, but it should be published uh
here in the courtroom and it should be
published in such a way that the media
can have access to it.
>> All right. I I do have a question and
just directing your attention to the
Utah rule of evidence 403 to the last
phrase the last um
four words in that. Do you wish to
address that
>> judge? I'll
I'm going to have to look at 403
specifically for those last. You want to
share that?
>> I can read that or needlessly presenting
cumulative evidence. So the court may
let me just read the whole rule for for
completeness. The court may exclude
relevant evidence if it's prob probative
value substantially outweighed by a
danger of one or more of the following
unfair prejudice confusing the issue
misleading the jury undue delay wasting
time or needlessly presenting cumulative
evidence. I'm not looking at anything
else other than that last portion. I
recognize there is no jury. I am the
magistrate. I am the factfinder. But
just addressing that last point of rule
403,
>> right, judge. Well, I don't believe that
the evidence is cumulative. I think the
the each of the two videos, although
they portray
uh basically the same footage, um
there's there's characteristics of the
one that has been enhanced that I think
makes it easier for your honor to truly
see what's going on. Um and and for the
public to see what's going on. I mean,
we've displayed 12.4 for on on on the
video. And unless you have very very
very good vision or you've zoomed in on
that that uh monitor, you you really
can't see what agent Hull has just
described. The character of 12.1 is it
simply it it it enhances um that that at
least important parts of uh that exhibit
and it just makes it easier to see not
only by your honor but also by the
public. Um and and specifically as it
relates to the uh the zooming in and the
zooming out.
>> Okay. Anything further from the parties
as it relates to
>> 12.1?
>> All right. Well, I will admit 12.1 into
evidence. Um, but as it relates to
playing it in the courtroom or on uh the
television, well, for the media, I find
that it is um
well, as the factfinder, I I will look
at the evidence and and and weigh it as
as a magistrate is required to do, but I
do not find it is uh
I I don't find it's necessary to replay
this video given the representation
that's the exact same video. The
difference being enhancements made. Um
if it was different in any way or if it
added to or subtracted from uh that
would be one factor, but because it's
simply the same video simply zooming in
with circles or or notations, uh the
court does not find that uh the
interests of justice requires it being
played again. Uh but it is received into
evidence and will be reviewed by by
myself uh in determining a probable
cause determination.
>> And I appreciate that, Judge. And just
so we're clear, states exhibit 12.1 has
been admitted.
>> It is received into evidence. Yes.
>> And your intent is to review it in in
its entirety, but not here in the
courtroom.
>> Yes.
>> Um can I make one suggestion, judge? Um
or or or maybe one run request. I I I I
believe the most important part of the
most helpful part of this video is the
zooming in and the zooming out. And uh
that is a portion that if you want, we
could isolate that and only play that
portion of the video if you'd be willing
to publish that portion of the video.
And and that's really uh the the the
thrust of why we are trying to introduce
that exhibit because we we believe that
it's it's it's helpful to see it up
close and and unfortunately because of
the way it's formatted and the way it's
been recorded there there's no way any
of us can zoom in and zoom out on this
video to get a better look at what's
going on. And that's the reason why we
did what we did. uh but we had to
memorialize it and save it um and
[snorts] and then present it in that way
rather than just present it in its raw
form and then have the ability to zoom
in and out if that helps your honor
understand why we're doing what we're
doing.
>> All right. Uh Miss Netor to the second
request of not playing the whole video
in its entirety but simply the portion
with a zooming in. How long is that, Mr.
Sturgil? I
>> I think it's a couple of minutes. All
right, Miss Nester,
>> we object to the prejudice of that, your
honor, and ask the court to stand by
your previous ruling on that.
>> All right, here's Thank you. I
appreciate uh
both parties. What I will do is is uh
review this video in court and it will
be displayed to the monitor's
council table and to the court's monitor
uh on any portion that you wish to play
for me to look at. So all parties can
see clearly that the court is reviewing
it in court but I do not find that it is
necessary for its publication because
this is the exact same video. I
recognize it's zooming, but uh in in
balancing the constitutional rights uh
in in
there is nothing on this video from
what's been represented that the public
hasn't already seen. It's simply zooming
in and I don't find that that is
necessary or uh
and so in balancing the constitutional
rights of all parties. I'll view it on
the monitor. council's free to view it
with me as I'm looking at it, but it
will not be uh broadcast in the
courtroom or uh by by the video camera.
I appreciate that, Judge. I respect
that. I I think there's a a a natural
break where we can start and what I'm
going to ask is we simply play the the
most
>> you you will have this entire exhibit in
in evidence though. Is that is that
right? Yes, I will.
>> All right. Whenever you're ready,
council, as it relates to your monitors,
just as a caution, if you don't want it
to be wished to be picked up, and I'm
not saying it will. I know there are
camera operators being diligent in
ensuring that complying by the rules,
but in in an abundance of caution, this
is just your moment to to take care of
your screens if you feel the need to do
so.
So, if I just have one moment, hold on,
Not sure where the power button is on
this.
>> There we go.
All right. Council for defense. Uh, are
we prepared? And for the state?
>> Yes, judge.
>> All right. Thank you. Having heard from
both council, I'll go ahead and review
it on my screens. It is not being
displayed in the monitor in the
courtroom. And uh uh you may present the
12.1 the portion you wish to for me to
view.
And just for the benefit of the record,
do you want to put on the record the
time stamp of what you're playing, at
what point you're starting and stopping
as we go or when we finish is fine.
I just want the record to be complete.
>> There's a difficulty in doing that. It's
because we've zoomed in. It's it's
removed the time stamp on it.
Well, you can just give me the the count
the count on the bottom. There's a timer
at the bottom of the total length of the
video. So, that's fine. I'm just trying
to create a record of what exactly I'm
looking at.
We pause on the court system.
>> Oh, I see. No, it's
>> limitations of technology sometimes.
Thank you for letting me know.
on the video is just before 6 minute
mark. Judge.
>> All right.
>> Just so the record's clear, this is
states exhibit 12.1.
>> Thank you.
>> I have it on my screen. It's It's so It
looks like it's been paused at 6 minutes
and 9 seconds.
>> Agent Hole, can you see it?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. Well, let's just I'm good with
playing it.
>> We'll play it.
>> Go ahead, Kimberly.
>> It's playing.
>> [snorts]
>> All right. And it's been paused it looks
like at 6 minutes and 23 seconds.
>> I'm sorry,
>> Judge. Uh, at 8:23 we stopped the video.
>> Oh, 8:23.
>> 8:23. That's the count on the video
itself.
>> Thank you.
>> Okay.
>> All right. Thank you, Mr. Sergil.
Um, agent hold, you were able to watch
that zoomed in version. Is that is that
right?
>> Okay. And was was there anything uh that
stood out uh watching that zoomed
version?
>> Um, for me on the zoomed version, it
it's apparent that Mr. Robinson, the
individual jumping off the roof, is
carrying an item. [clears throat]
>> Okay. and and you can see clear the
clothing that that that he's wearing.
[clears throat]
>> Strike that.
>> Mr. Stersel, do you want to respond to
the objection? Judge,
>> it is leading. Um,
>> I'll go ahead and sustain the objection
and that uh you may move forward.
>> Is it is it easier to see?
>> Um,
well, strike that judge.
I'll let the video speak for itself.
Judge, I have nothing further with
agent. All right,
Miss Nester,
if I may have a court's indulgence
Thank you. [clears throat]
>> And I was just going to suggest that uh
it seems like right now is a good time
to take our morning break. It is uh
10:15. Let's come back at uh let's come
back at 10:30 and we'll resume with
crossexamination of agent. Court is now
in recess
for each side. are present in the
courtroom and we are picking up with
crossexamination of agent Hull. Miss
Nester, your witness.
>> May it please accord. Thank you. Good
afternoon, Agent Hall.
>> Good morning.
>> You and I have met before, but just to
remind you, my name is Kathy Nester. I'm
one of the attorneys representing Mr.
Robinson.
>> So,
when did you leave
the SBI?
>> Uh, the State Bureau of Investigations.
>> Yes. Uh March of this year.
>> March of this year.
>> Yes.
>> So you were involved in this
investigation from September to March
basically.
>> Yes.
>> And your new position at Post, what is
your new position?
>> I'm an investigative sergeant.
>> So you investigate potential wrongdoing
of police officers.
>> Correct.
>> Okay.
Um, so
when you were first brought into this
case in September, is it my
understanding from your testimony that
you were not engaged in any way with
this event prior to getting a call after
the shooting? Is that correct?
>> Correct.
>> Does the SBI on occasion assist other
agencies with preparing for big events
like this or not? Is that's not
typically something you do?
>> Not something that I've ever been
involved with. No.
>> Okay. Um, and what time did you arrive
on campus that day?
>> Uh, I believe it was shortly after 1:30.
>> So, approximately an hour after um Mr.
Kirk had already been removed from the
>> Approximately. Yes.
>> Okay. And were you involved in um
in um
putting up any drones into the air? Were
you part of that or were you not
involved?
>> No. No.
>> So,
how quickly after you arrived on scene
did you become aware that you were
actually going to be in charge of the
scene?
>> I believe it was approximately an hour
after. So, what would have been
approximately 2:30. So for the first two
hours you were not in charge.
>> Uh for the first two hours I wasn't I I
didn't arrive till 1:30. So no.
>> Okay. And once you came from on high
that you were basically going to be in
charge of the scene, what was the what
was your first priority? What were you
focused on? Uh we were focused on
through our major crimes team and our
lieutenant putting together an
investigative team and developing
initial assignments and a plan as to
what we were going to do moving forward.
>> And part of that is protecting any
potential forensic evidence that may be
found on the scene. That's clearly
important. Right.
>> Correct.
>> Preserving the scene,
>> right?
>> Correct.
>> But it sounds like that's not really
your area. that was more maybe agent
Fina's area.
>> Agent Felmina was assigned to process
and document the crime scenes. It was my
understanding that the known scenes at
that time um amid the chaos had been
contained and had been secured by the on
the onampus officers who were already on
scene.
>> And what's your understanding of what
the known scenes were? In other words,
the area where there might potentially
be evidence that you needed to process.
I know that the amphitheater area was
was cordoned off and managed as best it
could with the with the number of people
that were there. I was also made aware
that there was a rooftop area that had
been secured and also an area off of the
side of that building that had been
secured by an officer
>> and that building was the Losi building.
>> Correct.
>> Wasn't there also a bullet found on
another building? I believe an unfired
bullet had been found on another
building at some point during my time
there on September 10th. Yes.
>> Which building was that, sir?
>> I don't recall.
>> Was that considered a scene that was
worth preserving?
>> Uh, it was not. My recollection is that
that was accounted for as an ejected
cartridge from an officer who had cycled
his rifle.
>> Okay. I thought you said it was an
unfired bullet. So now you're saying it
was a cartridge.
>> When when a weapon is cleared
>> Uhhuh.
>> Um an officer would make his rifle ready
which would chamber around.
>> Oh, I got you.
>> My understanding was that that's how
that was accounted for.
>> So a officer claimed it that bullet
belonged to him or her.
>> That's my recollection is that that that
was how it was accounted for.
>> And when when was that accounted for?
>> I don't know specifically.
>> Do you remember what type of bullet that
was?
>> I don't.
>> Was it a 30 odd six? Do you remember?
>> I don't.
>> Okay. Do you know where that bullet is
now?
>> I don't.
>> Okay. Um, so you had the amphitheater
area that had to be preserved. Um, and
how far out did that stretch? The entire
amphitheater or just the area around the
tent or what?
My understanding was the entire
amphitheater area was cordoned off and
there were attempts to secure the campus
itself with a perimeter of officers who
were monitoring or preventing people
coming and going.
>> When you arrived on the scene, were you
aware that an individual had been taken
into custody?
>> I had heard that. Yes.
>> Did you ever have any interaction with
that individual?
>> I did not.
And
were you advised at any point that that
person was no longer a person of
interest?
>> Information was passed down that the
individual was not considered to be a
suspect in the shooting.
>> And when was that time-wise?
>> I don't recall specifically, but I know
I was on campus when I had heard.
>> So, whoever arrested him as a potential
suspect got that wrong. He wasn't the
actual suspect. Right.
>> Sorry. Got what wrong?
>> That he was the shooter.
The person I believe to be the shooter
was not the individual who was taken
into custody. Correct.
>> And then was there anybody else taken
into custody as a person of interest?
>> Uh there were several people who were uh
detained for questioning and and who
were interviewed throughout the
investigation
>> and none of those people were ultimately
they were all ultimately cleared by you
or somebody connected with you.
>> Correct.
>> And were there any other guns
confiscated on the scene that day? There
were other firearms that were located on
the scene. Yes.
>> How many guns were confiscated that day?
>> Um I I don't know specifically
confiscated, but I know that there was a
firearm found in a backpack that was
accounted for uh during the day.
>> What type of firearm was that?
>> It was a handgun.
>> Any other guns that were found on the
scene?
>> Not that I recall.
Do you recall an individual named uh
Noah Gonzalez being interviewed?
>> I don't recall that name specifically.
>> Um let me see if it refreshes your
memory that he was an offduty I think
maybe trooper that was on the scene that
day and that was involved in recovering
the holster.
>> I know that a trooper was interviewed
having been on scene. I don't recall if
it was Gonzalez. I don't recall the
name, but I do know there was a trooper
that was interviewed. Yes.
>> Okay. And
um just a moment, your honor.
>> And do you recall the trooper that was
interviewed saying that there was
actually a gun found in that holster?
>> I do not.
>> You do not?
>> No.
>> Okay.
>> Can we pull up?
Exhibit hole 13
and just show it only to the witness for
right now.
All right. Can we go to page two of that
report? Do you recognize this report?
Have you reviewed it as part of your um
investigation duties?
>> I do recognize the report now. Yes.
>> Okay. And this is a report prepared by
um
actually Mr. Davis who's going to
testify later in this matter. Is that
right?
>> Uh correct.
>> Okay. And on page two, this is the
interview of Noah Gonzalez. Is that
right?
>> Uh that's what it stated on page one.
Yes. And he's an offduty trooper who
happened to be there that day.
>> Correct.
>> And do you see on the second paragraph,
does that refresh your memory about
whether Trooper Gonzalez
um believed there was a gun found in a
holster in that area of the
amphitheater?
>> Trooper Gonzalez included in his report
that there was a gun. Yes.
>> Okay.
Thank you.
Okay.
When did you first um personally go up
to the roof of the Losi building? Do you
remember the time of that?
>> I don't recall. I know it was it was
dark when I went up to the roof, so it
would have been later that evening. And
at the time you went up there, there was
already crime scene tape that had been
placed around it.
>> There was there was an officer standing
security.
>> Right.
>> And to your knowledge, as the head of
the investigation, did they ever find
any bullets or casings anywhere on the
LOC roof?
>> Not to my knowledge. No.
>> Did they ever find any bullets or
casings anywhere around the Losi
building?
>> When you say around the Losi building,
do you mean how close? like immediately
around the Losi building. Correct. Not
to my knowledge. No.
>> Okay.
And then you've been talking a lot about
a timeline here that um seemed you
talked about it when you were watching
the video, but you also talked about the
fact that you developed a timeline. Is
that right?
>> Correct.
>> And can you pull up um hole one, please?
I'm pulling up on your screen your your
report that you prepared.
Um, do you recognize that?
>> I do. Yes.
>> And what's the date that you drafted
that report?
>> That looks like September 14th. It says
date created.
>> And that's the place where, if you could
go to page two, please.
>> Do you see down at the bottom where you
summarize Sergeant Bricker's report
listing the timeline?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. And so it was actually Sergeant
Bricker that prepared the timeline. Is
that right?
>> He prepared a timeline.
>> And you incorporated that into your
report?
>> No, I created a timeline.
>> You created your own timeline?
>> Yes.
>> Separate from the one that's in this
report?
>> Yes. Using using information obtained in
the investigation.
>> And when did you create that timeline?
>> Over the course of the investigation.
Over over a long period of time. after a
lot of reviewing video and and
investigative time.
>> So,
as of September 14th,
Tyler Robinson had already turned
himself in to the authorities. Is that
right?
>> Uh, yes. I believe he turned himself in
on September 11th.
>> So, prior to the time that Tyler
Robinson turned himself in, had
[clears throat] you all prepared a
timeline?
>> A documented written timeline?
>> Yes. Um, not to my knowledge. I don't
know when Sergeant Bricker produced his
specifically.
>> And And isn't it fair to say that
as of the moment that Tyler Robinson
voluntarily surrendered to authorities
in Washington County? As of that moment,
you all did not know who the shooter
was. Is that right?
>> We had identified a person of interest,
but we did not specifically know who the
shooter was at that time.
>> Okay.
And you became aware that Mr. Robinson
was voluntarily surrendering. How? How
did you become aware of that?
>> That information came originally, I
believe, from the Washington County
Sheriff to the administration at the uh
the control center at the university on
the evening of the investigation. Okay.
>> Or the second evening of the
investigation.
>> Right. We're going to get back to that
in a minute, but I just wanted to get
the timeline down. All right. All right.
Now, I want to go back to the videos
that we've seen and the um question that
I just asked before, which is, is it
fair to say that nothing about the video
of the individual on the roof revealed
to you? You couldn't see facial
features, you couldn't see what they
were wearing. Correct.
>> Of the individual on the roof.
>> Correct. Um, I know that there was a
meeting to discuss perhaps a pattern on
the front of the shirt that was observed
when the individual was jumping off of
the roof.
>> Okay, that's fair. But at that time, as
of the 11th, before Mr. Robinson turned
himself in, you all had not been able to
determine that. Is that right? [cough]
>> Excuse me. Determine who he was or
determine distinguishing features?
>> Determine distinguishing features of
[cough]
video of the person on the roof. Yes, we
had a a person of interest and those
images were released to the press.
>> You're talking about the ones in the
stairwell from the
>> correct
>> from the parking garage.
>> Correct.
>> But the video on the roof was not
distinguishable. Fair.
>> That video as a stand alone.
>> Yes.
>> Was not? No.
>> Okay.
And in fact, the video on the roof.
Well, I'll strike that.
Is it true that you had um some
spectators that you interviewed that had
gotten a photograph a few seconds before
the shooting of someone on the roof?
>> Sir, I'm not sure I understand the
question.
>> Did you at some point in your
investigation collect from two young men
who were present at the event a video
that they had taken of someone on the
roof about 10 seconds before the shoot?
>> Yes. A video? Yes. Not photographs. The
video was collected from an individual
who had a a video.
>> And ultimately some screenshots were
taken out of that video. Is that right?
>> By
>> by you?
>> Not by me? No.
>> Okay, that's fine. It could have been
someone else.
>> Okay.
>> Um, but did you see the video that those
young men took?
>> If you're referring to the video that is
looking north and shows an individual
dressed in dark clothing on the corner
of the roof, if that is the video, I
have seen that video. Yes. Did you
review the interview of those young men?
>> I did not.
>> Do you know what they how they described
the person on the roof?
>> Uh, I don't know if I read it or if I
heard it, but my understanding was they
believed it was overwatch or some kind
of a a police overwatch for the event.
>> Okay.
>> If that's my recollection.
>> And do you remember anything specific
about the person's build that they
discussed when they described the person
on the roof?
>> I do not. No.
>> Okay.
There is um a portion of the video after
the individual jumped off the roof,
which we all saw here, where the
individual crosses I believe it's campus
drive. Is that right?
>> Correct.
>> And there's a moment where the
individual waits and there's two cars
that pass in front of him, right in
front of him.
>> Correct. Um, and is this the moment
where you are sub submitting that he was
holding a gun in his hand
>> as he crossed the road?
>> Yes.
>> I from my observations would show that
he's carrying an object in his hand
that's concealed or in a bag and it is
long and has the appearance based on my
training and experience it could be a
firearm.
>> But do you see a gun anywhere?
>> The actual
>> in the video?
>> Yeah.
>> No.
>> All right. And did anybody that was
driving by on campus drive that day
report to you or any other investigative
entity, hey, we just drove by a guy with
a gun who was leaving campus and he was
standing right by my car.
>> We did not receive any reports to that
effect. No.
>> Okay.
Also, when you were revealing the
timeline,
uh exactly how long was there between
when the person was prone on the roof
and when the shot was taken? Do you
recall?
>> Uh if you if you would like to replay
the video, I can time it for you, but I
don't recall. It was my guess my guess I
would estimate between 15 and 30
seconds.
>> So between 15 and 30 seconds to lay
flat, take a shot, and get up and run
off. Right.
>> I I think you asked how long he was
prone. I think it took longer for him to
crawl into position.
>> Okay.
>> And then establish a position. and then
take the shot. He appeared to be in
prone for approximately 15 to 30
seconds, but the video would verify
that.
>> Okay, thank you.
>> All right,
I want to talk to you for just a minute
about the video that was taken.
Um,
and I'm not going to get into the I'm
not going to show it just so that in
case anybody's concerned about leaving
the courtroom. I'm not going to show it.
Um, but there was a video that was taken
by Mr. Ty Phillips from um behind the
individual that was speaking to Mr.
Kirk.
>> Correct.
>> And it showed like a dead-on view of Mr.
Kirk and his parts of his security team.
Is that right?
And then you also have video that you
described that shows the back of the
tent um at the moment the shot happened.
Is that right behind Mr. [clears throat]
>> You referring to the UVU video in the
breezeway?
>> Yes,
>> we have that video. Yes.
>> Okay. And can we pull up um the last
video? The last clip 49.
Um, I want to show you just you this
clip. Um, that is a little clip from
that video under the breezeway that's
behind the tent. Right. Correct.
>> And and just to be clear, this area
behind the tent would not have been
visible to anybody that was on the Losi
building. Is that fair?
>> I can't answer that question.
I
>> Yeah, sure.
And Miss Nester, as you're um playing
this, are are you just being cognizant
if the sound is on or not?
>> I don't want the sound. Please.
>> Okay. I just wanted to
>> Thank you for bringing that. Thank Thank
you.
>> All right.
>> No sound. I just want only the witness
to look at it. So, can you just watch
this clip for just a minute? this one
little clip of behind the breezeway at
the time of the shot.
>> That's fine. And so just as a reminder
to all the parties, if it's on your
monitor, please be cognizant of that. It
will not be displayed on the main
monitor. Miss, you may proceed.
>> Thank you.
>> Is it playing?
Okay. Do you remember that? Does that
refresh your memory of what's in that
clip?
>> Yes.
>> And having reviewed that at the time the
shot was fired, um, there was no one
standing directly behind the tent. Is
that correct?
>> Uh, you'd have to show me it again. I
wasn't specifically looking for that.
>> Okay.
>> But I can answer that question if I can
view the video again.
>> Okay. And just before you do that, I
think you testified before that Mr. Kirk
would have been dead center behind that
banner. Is that right?
>> Approximately.
>> Okay. So, what I'm asking is if anyone
behind that banner, dead center behind
Mr. Kirk, if there was any people
standing there. Go ahead.
>> So, there's a there's a videographer on
the right side of the tent and then I
can only see as far as a video allows me
to. So, I can't speak to whether there's
anybody out of frame who could have been
behind the tent,
>> but what you can see is there anyone
directly behind the middle of the tent?
>> Yes, there's a videographer stood behind
the tent
>> to the right.
>> Yes, behind the tent.
>> Correct. But directly in the middle of
the tent, is there anyone standing?
>> There's no one stood in the middle
behind the tent. No.
>> Thank you.
>> All right. I want to talk now about the
TP. You can take it down off of the
screen. Thank you. I want to talk now
about the TPUSA video that you got. That
was the angle that was taken from behind
Mr. Kirk while he was talking, looking
out at the audience during when the shot
was fired. Do you remember that video?
>> The Visual Impulse videos?
>> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> All right. Is it true that Visual
Impulse provided four videos?
>> Uh, yeah. I believe there were four
total videos that encompassed everything
that they provided to us. Yes. But the
one that you showed, that's only one of
the four that they provided to you.
>> Uh that that one that was shown had a
Bates number. It was a an item that was
provided by Utah County Attorney's
Office.
>> Okay. But were there more that you
haven't seen in this courtroom in this
prelim that you got?
>> There's there's the original footage.
>> Okay. But were there other angles that
are not shown here in this prelim?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. That's what I was trying to get
to. Thank you.
All right.
Were you involved when the gun was
located in the um forest area?
>> I was not involved in the search for the
gun. No.
>> Did you get notice when it was located?
Um, from the footage that we reviewed,
we identified an area that we believed
could be potentially of evidentiary
value and then it was secured and then I
was notified that as a result of that
search, a gun had been located. Yes.
>> Were you involved in the processing of
that gun? In other words,
>> boxing it, shipping it, sending it
wherever it was going to go to be
>> I was not. No.
>> Okay. Thank you.
>> All right. Now I want to shift to the
autopsy for just a moment. You were not
present at the autopsy. Is that right?
>> I was not.
>> Okay. So, anything you know about the
autopsy was not from personal
observation.
>> Uh, no. Other than from my meeting with
the the medical examiner and his report?
Um, no. I was not present.
>> Did you meet with the medical examiner
after he had conducted the autopsy?
>> I did. Yes.
And when you met with him, did you
provide him information about what you
all had learned in your investigation so
far?
>> Uh, we didn't have any reason to provide
any investigative information to him.
The purpose of the meeting was to
establish what information he could
provide to us.
>> Well, in fact, on the front page of the
medical examiner's report, he talks
about the investigation and information
he learned. Did he learn that from you
or did he learn it from someone else?
would be my recollection that he did not
learn that from us, but I couldn't speak
to how he did learn about it.
>> Okay. So, you didn't share with him your
conclusions about what happened or how
Mr. Kirk was injured or anything like
that?
>> That's my recollection.
>> Okay. Thank you. And isn't it also true
that fingerprints that were taken um
from Mr. Kirk and autopsy photos were
provided to you on a CD?
>> Yes.
>> Was there anything else provided to you
from the autopsy other than that?
Other than the CD and the report? Yes.
>> Not to me? No.
>> Okay.
>> You did mention not to you. Were you
aware of anything else from the autopsy
going to anyone else?
>> I believe standard practice is anything
of evidentary value that the medical
examiner collects is transferred through
a chain of custody.
>> And are you aware of anything that was
transferred after Mr. Kirk's autopsy?
>> I'm aware that there were items
transferred for evidence. Yes.
>> What items? I believe some uh fragments
of a bullet casing. Um I know Mr. Kirk's
personal items uh to be returned to the
family.
Um that's all I can recall off the off
the top of my head.
>> Do you know how many fragments from the
bullets?
>> I don't. Okay.
>> Now, I'd like to talk a little bit about
the ring camera that um you obtained and
you interviewed a woman named Miss
Noble. Is that right? To get that ring
camera that we watched with the car on
the outside.
>> Uh, she we interviewed her to verify the
authenticity of the video. Yes.
>> And were you involved in that interview
>> with Miss Noble?
>> Yes.
>> And do you recall what they told you
about what they remember seeing in and
around that car that night?
>> Uh, I don't recall. I I just know we
were there to verify the video. I didn't
conduct an interview with Miss Noble at
that time.
>> Okay. Can we please bring up whole?
Sorry, just a moment.
Let's see.
Poll 48.
This is Miss Noble's interview. Do you
have it?
>> All right. Do you remember that looking
at that interview? Does that refresh
your recollection?
>> I remember reading the report at some
point. Yes.
>> And do you remember that the nobles told
you that the driver of the vehicle was
bald?
>> I I do remember that being in the
report. Yes. And you didn't mention that
today when you were talking about that
ring camera, did you?
>> I did not.
>> And did they also tell you there were
three other people in the car?
>> Yes. I believe they they thought that
was the case.
>> Okay.
>> I want to go back if I can to the scene.
um the scene itself, pres the
preservation of the actual scene where
the um where Mr. Kirk passed. Um did you
all have K9 dogs at any point that
sniffed that area?
>> I don't know specifically that area, but
I do know that canines were present or a
K9 was present on the day.
>> But you don't know what task the K9 was
given?
>> My understanding was that it may have
been used in an effort to track an
individual that had jumped off the roof,
but I don't know for certain. And
obviously that didn't produce any
results or we would have heard about
that, right?
>> Yeah. Not that I was made aware of.
>> Okay. Um
were
do you know when the tent and the stuff
was actually removed from the scene?
>> I don't I would imagine it had been at
least a couple of days if not longer
than that before anything was removed
from the scene.
>> You didn't have to give permission to
remove the tent.
Me personally, right? No. No.
>> So, you're not sure when it was removed?
>> No.
>> Um, and were you involved in the
decision to pave over the dirt that was
under the tent
>> at UVU?
>> Uh-huh.
>> No.
>> Did you know that happened?
>> Only because it was in the news.
>> All right. But you don't know when or
who ordered that?
>> Nope.
[clears throat]
And it's true that during the time
before Mr. Robinson turned himself in,
you all received lots and lots of tips
from the public. Is that fair?
>> Correct.
>> You received tips of death threats that
Mr. Kirk had received before the day
before the shooting. Is that right?
>> I'm sorry. Did we receive threats that
Mr. Kirk had received before the event
or
>> Let me clarify. That was a confusing
question.
>> As you were going through tips that the
public was giving you, did you receive
tips about online death threats that had
been made against Mr. Kirk prior to his
death?
>> There was a a huge variety of of tips
and information and suggestions that
were being provided by the public.
>> Okay. And a lot of those some of those
filtered through you, right?
Uh some of them filtered their way down
to ours, but predominantly that was
being handled by our state information
and analysis center that had been set
up.
>> And you also got multiple tips about
potential suspects, people who thought
they recognized people in the picture,
right?
>> Yes. There were different calls and and
information provided by the public.
>> And you had quite a few of those.
>> Correct.
>> And then Mr. Robinson turned himself in,
right?
Yes.
>> And is it your understanding that the
individual they used to facilitate Mr.
um Robinson turning himself in was
someone known to Mr. Robinson personally
that had been connected to law
enforcement?
>> I know he was known to the family. I
don't know his connection specifically
with Mr. Robinson, but I am aware that
someone was used to facilitate Mr.
Robinson turning himself in.
>> And were you aware that he was um one of
his Boy Scout leaders? Did you know
that?
>> I think I had heard that at some point.
He there was a connection. I just I
don't recall specifically what it was.
>> And um Mr. Robinson, in fact, no police
went to go arrest him. He drove himself
or he was driven with his parents to the
Washington County Sheriff's Department.
Correct.
>> That's my understanding. Yes.
>> And he voluntarily walked in.
>> That's also my understanding. Yes.
>> And that was the first moment you ever
knew his name connected with this case.
Uh yeah, aside from the image that we
had, that was the first time that we had
a name of an individual who who had
taken responsibility. Yes.
>> And did you personally ever meet with
Mr. Robinson?
>> I did not.
>> And as far as you know, Mr. Robinson did
what he said he was going to do. He told
the police he was coming. He was coming
peacefully. He was coming with his
parents. And that's exactly what
happened.
>> I don't know any of the specifics of how
he was arranged to turn himself in.
>> Okay.
>> In in terms of what you've described, I
just know that it was being facilitated
with the the sheriff's office.
>> Okay.
>> Court's indulgence for just a moment,
your honor.
>> Yes.
Thank you, Agent Hall. Attender the
witness, your honor.
>> Thank you.
>> Redirect by the state.
>> Just going to go back to a few things
that Miss Nester asked you about. First
of all, the the unfired bullet that you
referred to, it's your understanding
that um that bullet was accounted for.
>> That's my recollection. Yes.
>> Okay. And it possibly belonged to an
officer that could have maybe been
clearing his weapon.
>> Yes, that was that was the that's what I
recall being told about that particular
item. Yes. Are are you aware of um if on
the 10th there were police officers
present that were actually securing
buildings and securing rooms here at
UVU?
>> I know prior to my arrival um there was
it was a dynamic and active scene that I
believe was originally being treated
that there was an active shooter on
campus. So there was a large rapid
response of law enforcement um who were
actively trying to clear, secure and
ensure that the campus was safe if that
if that answers the question.
>> The entire campus.
>> Yes. Correct.
>> Okay. And and what what types of
officers uh were there clearing the
campus?
Originally there would have been uh
probably local units um who would have
responded but subsequently uh specialty
teams would have been deployed uh to do
a more methodical search of the campus
and what we would call a clearing of the
campus
>> and those specialty teams and and any
other officers how how were they were
how were they equipped like what what
type of equipment were they car
>> I believe most officers carry a sidearm
a handgun
>> and most officers uh in this day and age
are equipped with a rifle platform as
well. Okay.
When you said that it it was possible
that that round uh was from an officer
clearing his weapon, what what exactly
do you mean by that?
>> Um our standard practice in our
department is to carry a rifle cruiser
ready.
>> Uh which is
>> we carry our rifles in a situation which
is called cruiser ready.
>> What does that mean?
>> Means we don't have a round chambered.
Um, so if an officer deployed with his
rifle, he would chamber a round. Uh,
once he had done whatever task it was
that he was doing, in order to put that
weapon back, he would eject the magazine
and eject [clears throat] the round.
Sometimes in doing so, rounds are
dropped or not accounted for.
>> Okay. Have you personally done that
yourself?
>> I we do that at training and I've done
that in the field as well. Yes.
>> Okay. And you're aware of is that
something that's common among police
officers in this situation? I believe
for most agencies that's that's how they
carry their their weapons, but I can't
speak specifically to agencies outside
my own. Do
>> do you have any idea how many officers
were were were dedicated or sent out to
clear the campus?
>> I I can tell you I had to park on
University Avenue and walk all the way
onto campus between hundreds of police
cars. So I would say hundreds if not a
thousand officer high hundreds would
have responded to the campus that day.
Now I'm going to ask you about uh Miss
Nester asked you about um
your observation of of seeing Mr.
Robinson with something in his hand. And
I think I think she was asking you about
Mr. Robinson just prior to crossing
campus drive uh following the shooting.
Do you remember that question?
>> Uh yes. I think I was asked whether he
had a gun in or I had seen a gun in his
hand in the video. And and you and you
said that you did see something in his
hand.
>> Correct.
>> Okay. I want you to go back as far as
you can remember. At what point um after
Mr. Robinson stood up on top of the Losi
building and ran across, I believe to
the north northeast corner. When did you
first notice uh in that video something
uh in his hand? The f the first time you
can clearly notice he has something in
his hand without a doubt is when he's on
the white triangular portion
>> on the north east corner of the Losi
building preparing to jump but it's very
apparent he has an item in his hand.
>> And that's based on your observation of
the videos.
>> Correct.
>> Okay. And is it easier to see in that
that enhanced video?
>> The the zoomed version of the video
makes it a lot clearer to see. Yes.
Okay.
And then after he drops down off of the
roof of the Losi building, do is there
any time between that point in time and
making his way to Campus Drive uh that
you believe you see uh again something
in his hand?
>> Uh as Mr. Robinson lands on the grass.
It's it's almost like he either drops it
or
goes into a crouched position and then
when he returns up from that, it is
again clear that there is some kind of
an item in his hand. Yes.
>> Okay. Can you be more
specific or describe in more detail what
item appears to be black and it appears
to be longer?
Okay.
>> Anything else about that item?
>> No.
>> Okay.
I believe it was exhibit nine, states
exhibit nine that Miss Nester pulled up
on the screen and she had you look at
that and I believe I believe what you
looked at was beginning a still image
but then a few moments or a few seconds
of that video and that's the UVU tunnel
video. Is that right?
>> Uh the breezeway underneath the Hall of
Flags. Yes. And and the view is is from
behind where I believe you testified
that Mr. Kirk was on the other side of
what appears to be a banner.
>> Sure.
>> In that tunnel view.
>> Yes.
>> And and on the other side of that banner
is the tent and then the rest of the
courtyard. Is that the same?
>> Do do you remember seeing the banner?
>> Yes.
>> In the video.
>> Okay. And and
>> you're referring to the the back of the
pop-up tent,
>> correct? Yes. Okay. Yes.
>> Okay. And and do you remember um what do
you what do you remember about that
banner?
>> Uh it has some kind of an emblem on it.
Um and it forms the back portion of the
pop-up tent.
>> Is it is it opaque? Is it transparent?
>> Uh no, you can't see through it. It's
white and and you cannot see through it.
No. And um how much of the tunnel
um does that banner I I guess if it's
opaque obstruct?
>> I I couldn't say. I'm I can I'm assuming
[clears throat] it's a 20 by 20 gazebo.
So it would block out the area of the
back of the tent that you can see.
>> You would not be able to see through it.
You would not be able to see through it
from the the audience side of the
amphitheater.
>> And and and what about the tunnel side
of that that banner? Can you see through
the tunnel side in the opposite
direction?
>> You cannot. No.
>> Can you see Mr. Mr. Kirk on the other
side of that banner?
>> You can't. No.
>> Okay.
You you
Well, we exhibited or Miss Miss Nester
had you watch just I believe just a
brief few seconds of that video. That
that exhibit is actually much longer
than what we just looked at or what M
Miss Nester had you look at. Is that
right?
>> Correct.
>> Okay. And leading up um and again I'm
referring to that view, that tunnel view
of that surveillance camera leading up
to the shot. What's going on behind that
banner?
>> There are representatives, I believe, of
TPUSA, but there are representatives of
TPUSA. There are law enforcement
representatives. I don't know if there's
any student body, but essentially people
are moving to and fro behind that area.
A couple of individuals are retrieving
items from a vehicle. Uh but there's
consistent movement behind and in that
area.
>> Okay. DU directly behind the banner.
>> Correct.
>> Uh Miss Nester asked you about um the
wooded area
that uh Mr. that Mr. Robinson entered.
Well, the Miss Nester brought that up
and I believe your testimony has been
between today and yesterday that you
witnessed Mr. Robinson enter a wooded
area on at least two occasions. Is that
fair to say?
>> Uh yes, on on his second visit to the
campus and uh on the visit where the the
incident took place
>> at least on those two occasions. didn't
the wooded area that he entered. Were
they different parts of the wooded area
or was it the same parts of the
>> They appeared to be the same.
>> You're aware that a a rifle was
eventually discovered?
>> Yes.
>> And and was it your understanding that
that rifle was discovered in a wooded
area?
>> Uh was it was in the wooded area where
we believe Mr. Robinson entered the
wooded area? Yes.
>> Okay.
And that rifle was discovered on the
10th.
>> Uh, yes.
>> Miss Nesner asked you about a variety of
tips. Tips including threats to Mr.
Kirk. Uh, I think before the event.
>> Yes.
>> And did you follow up on those tips?
uh after tips had been put through a
process and and been analyzed and
screened, anything that appeared to have
relevance to either the investigation or
a credible threat was managed by the
various entities involved. Yes.
>> Okay. So, managed by law enforcement.
So,
>> correct.
>> Did you personally follow up on any of
the tips?
>> I don't think I personally did, but I
worked closely with people who did.
>> The point is, I guess, is that those
tips were followed up on. Is that fair
to say? to the best of our ability. Yes.
>> Okay. And then Miss Nester also asked
you about tips, I believe, of people um
reporting to police that they felt like
they knew who who the shooter was.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. So, identities of possible
shooters.
>> Correct.
>> Did did law enforcement follow up on
those tips as well?
>> They did.
Miss uh Miss Nester, finally uh Miss
Nester asked you or well
she asked you um
whether
Mr. Robinson voluntarily went to the
sheriff's office down in in um southern
Utah. Is that right?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. That was a Washington County
Sheriff's Office.
>> Yes. Okay. You understood that he turned
him well he he he showed up there
voluntarily. Is that right?
>> Correct.
>> What was your understanding as to why he
was showing up there voluntarily?
>> Uh he had informed I believe his
immediate family that he had been
involved in the shooting and that he
wanted to turn himself in.
>> Nothing further.
in in the video that um
uh we've already talked about the video
where Mr. Robinson stands up and runs
across the top of the LOC building. Is
there do do you notice whether at that
point uh after he stood up until you you
see him last at least in that part of
the video do you notice whether he's
walking or running with a limp?
>> Uh he is not from the time he left the
after going over the railing when we see
him on the video move out to the
position
>> correct
>> and then leave the position there is no
longer a visible input gate. Thank you,
>> Miss Nester.
>> No, no followup, your honor.
>> All right. May agent Hull be excused?
>> Yes, sir.
>> All right, Agent Hull. Thank you.
>> Thank you, your honor.
>> We have just a minute to meet.
>> All right. Let's take a five minute
break and uh allowing parties
Related Books
Browse Conservative Books
