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Death Penalty Defense Strategy Breakdown: Bryan Kohberger Case Analysis with Legal Experts Mark Geragos and Ashleigh Merchant
Mark Geragos and Ashleigh Merchant break down the legal complexities surrounding Bryan Kohberger's death penalty case in Utah. The experienced defense attorneys discuss the challenges of death-qualified counsel, the financial burden of capital cases, and why Kohberger's defense team brought in specialized California-based attorneys. With a $750,000 defense budget and questions swirling about contrived text messages, Geragos and Merchant examine what makes this case unique, the pressures of defending death penalty cases, and why the prosecution may not have filed federal charges yet. The conversation reveals insider perspectives on jury selection, ineffective assistance of counsel claims, and the strategic implications of seeking capital punishment in high-profile cases.
Specialized Death Penalty Defense Team
Bryan Kohberger has assembled a team of three lawyers, two of whom are California-based. One notable attorney is Michael Burt, who previously tried the Menendez case in California and hails from San Francisco. Both California attorneys entered their appearances through what's called pro hac vice, a Latin term meaning the court allowed them to practice in Utah specifically for this case.
According to the legal experts analyzing the case, this move makes complete sense. As one attorney explains, "This is a death penalty case. As most people are aware, you need specialized defense attorneys handling that. They have to be death qualified." The county will pick up the tab for this specialized representation, which is standard practice in capital cases despite potential public criticism.
The Heavy Burden of Death Penalty Cases
Death penalty cases carry a unique weight that sets them apart from all other criminal defense work. Ashleigh Merchant, who has handled multiple death penalty cases, describes the profound responsibility: "When you're death qualified and you're in an area, you get called about things like this. And you have to really think about it because the facts of the case are usually really heavy. You have to think about your practice because you virtually have to shut it down."
Merchant reveals that her last death penalty case required her to essentially shut down her practice for three months to focus exclusively on that single case. "It's just a different case when, you know, at the end your client could die. That is a different level of stress," she notes. The decision to take on such representation is never given lightly, given the final nature of the potential outcome.
The Financial Reality of Capital Cases
The Kohberger case currently has a defense budget of $750,000, with an additional $500,000 allocated for the prosecution. While these numbers might concern taxpayers, the legal experts emphasize that death penalty cases are inherently expensive precisely because death is final and requires exhaustive preparation and investigation.
Mark Geragos points out an interesting double standard: "When was the last time anybody ever said to the prosecution, 'No, you've gone over your budget.' I mean, that's one of the things that cracks me up." He references cases where prosecutors can essentially choose how to allocate their resources, sometimes at the expense of other pending cases in the jurisdiction.
Ashleigh Merchant recalls a case in Georgia involving Brian Nichols, who shot a judge and had a rampage in the courthouse: "When we had his death penalty trial, you could basically get probation on every murder in the county because they spent all their money on his case and that was a decision. They wanted the death penalty. They didn't get it, but you know, it was a decision that they had to use their resources as prosecutors."
Questionable Text Messages and Investigation Concerns
One of the most puzzling aspects of the Kohberger case involves text messages that seem almost too convenient for investigators. The legal panel expresses skepticism about these communications, with one attorney asking: "Who in their right mind, we've all been doing this for a long time, who basically texts all the breadcrumbs to all the answers that any investigator could want to know on the heels of one of the most horrific, biggest, notorious assassinations in the country. Who does that?"
The experts acknowledge that while they hesitate to embrace conspiracy theories, there are legitimate questions the defense will need to explore. Mark Geragos mentions watching Steve Bannon discuss the case and notes that Bannon "asks a lot of questions that I tend to think the defense is going to ask as well. I mean, some of those text messages to me seem so contrived."
This unusual element of the evidence raises questions that only the defense attorneys will be positioned to pursue in court, highlighting the critical role of zealous advocacy even in the most controversial cases.
The Role and Responsibility of Defense Counsel
The attorneys discuss the challenge of being identified with unpopular clients and the necessity of thick skin in the profession. Mark Geragos reflects on this reality: "You get identified with your client and then it's oh you're you know how many times I've defended the world's most hated person. Um and when that happens you can't you have to it's the opposite. You've got a duty to defend. You've got a duty to zealously defend and not be affected by that."
In cases like Kohberger's, the defense lawyer becomes the only person asking critical questions that need to be asked, regardless of public opinion. This constitutional duty remains paramount even when representing defendants accused of heinous crimes.
The Preliminary Hearing Strategy
Significantly, Kohberger's defense team did not waive the preliminary hearing, a strategic decision that will allow them to examine the prosecution's case early in the process. Ashleigh Merchant explains the importance of this proceeding: "A lot of folks don't understand what the prelim is, but it's the opportunity for the defense to really find out what's going on in a case."
During the preliminary hearing, the prosecutor typically presents their lead detective, who testifies about the investigation. In this case, the defense is expected to receive substantial discovery before that hearing, making it a potentially revealing proceeding for understanding the strengths and weaknesses of the prosecution's case.
The New Judge's Opening Remarks
The presiding judge, who was sworn in just 56 days before taking on this high-profile case, made formal remarks about ensuring fairness and following the law. He stated: "I will not put my finger on the scale of justice. These proceedings will be open to the public, conducted in accordance with the law, and handled with diligence and competence to ensure that justice is never compromised."
While the experienced attorneys appreciate the sentiment, they also find the remarks somewhat obvious. Ashleigh Merchant quipped: "I wanted to say, do you want like an award for this? I mean, isn't that kind of your duty, your oath?" However, they acknowledge that as a brand-new judge facing one of the most scrutinized cases in the country, he was likely setting expectations for all parties and signaling his commitment to fairness.
The situation draws comparisons to Judge McAfee in Georgia, who similarly received a high-profile case early in his judicial career. Mark Geragos notes that Utah's judicial system has a reputation for sober, open, and transparent processes based on his experience trying a federal case there five years ago.
Why Federal Charges Haven't Been Filed
An interesting tactical consideration is the absence of federal charges in the Kohberger case. Mark Geragos offers a theory: "One of the reasons I think the feds haven't filed anything yet. I don't think the feds want to step on the idea that they could get the firing squad on a state prosecution."
Utah is not only a death penalty state, but one that allows execution by firing squad. Geragos contrasts this with the Luigi Mangione case in New York, where federal authorities intervened almost immediately because New York does not have the death penalty. The implication is that federal prosecutors may be holding back to allow the state to pursue the most severe punishment available.
The Death Qualification Dilemma
One of the most significant issues in death penalty cases is the jury selection process known as "death qualification." Ashleigh Merchant explains the controversial aspect: "Part of me thinks that the state kind of tries to tip the scales a little bit by seeking the death penalty because then they get what's called a death qualified jury. So you know which is a much more likely to convict jury."
Under this process, anyone who opposes the death penalty on religious, moral, or personal grounds cannot serve on the jury. Merchant herself acknowledges: "I wouldn't be eligible to serve on his jury. Just if you have a belief, you know, religious, moral, personal, whatever it is, mine's legal. You know, I've seen how the sausage is made and I know how the sausage is made and so I don't think the death penalty is appropriate."
This means that death penalty juries skew toward more conservative, pro-prosecution jurors, potentially affecting both the guilt phase and the penalty phase of the trial.
Lessons from the Scott Peterson Case
Mark Geragos draws on his experience with the Scott Peterson case, which occurred over 22 years ago, to illustrate problems with death qualification. During jury selection, Judge Delucchi was excusing people who said they didn't believe in the death penalty without asking the crucial follow-up question: "Can you set that aside?"
Geragos repeatedly objected: "Judge, you have to ask the next question. Can you set that aside?" The judge refused, and they went through 1,600 prospective jurors. Years later, the California Supreme Court unanimously reversed the penalty phase of Peterson's case for failing to ask that second question, though the conviction remained in place.
This legal precedent demonstrates how the death qualification process can create appealable issues while also potentially tilting the jury pool in favor of conviction during the guilt phase.
Ineffective Assistance of Counsel Claims
Mark Geragos identifies another common feature of death penalty cases: "One of the things that you find that are common in any we call them in California, special circumstance prosecutions, which makes you death eligible. If the prosecution gets death, the jury gives a death sentence. What ends up happening inevitably is there is what's called an IAC claim, an ineffective assistance of counsel."
These claims argue that the defendant didn't have effective representation, which can be used to attack both the conviction and the death sentence. Having well-qualified, specialized attorneys from the beginning serves as something of a preemptive measure against such claims, though they remain common in capital cases regardless.
The Challenges of Prejudgment
The attorneys agree that the Kohberger case presents exceptional challenges regarding jury prejudgment. Mark Geragos observes: "He knows that he's got a jury pool and a veneer that is going to come there prejudging this case and so he wants to make sure that he gives a lot of latitude. I mean that this case I mean the prejudgment rate on this case is probably similar to ones that you only see every generation. I mean people are going to come in and they're going to have an opinion whether they want to admit it or not."
Ashleigh Merchant agrees: "It's going to come down to jury selection if it gets that far, you know, but that's I mean and that's what happens in the death penalty cases. It comes down to jury selection."
Finding impartial jurors in a case that has received this level of national attention will be one of the defense team's most significant challenges, requiring careful questioning and strategic use of challenges for cause and peremptory strikes.
Video Transcript
For those who don't know, he's got three
lawyers. Uh two of which are
Californiabased. One of which the uh two
degrees of separation to me personally
is Michael Bert tried the um Menendez
case uh in California. He's from up
north in San Francisco as I sit here in
LA. And they both entered their
appearances I believe yesterday in what
the Latin term prohak viche which means
the court allowed them to practice in
Utah. Uh any opinions by either of you?
>> That's pretty st They needed to get
specialized attorney. I'm sure Ashley
will agree. This is a death penalty
case. As most people are aware, you need
specialized defense attorneys handling
that. They have to be death qualified.
The county is going to pick up the tab,
which might have some people uh not too
happy, but that's also common. So prohv
means for this case only, but it makes
sense to have well-qualified attorneys
no matter where you have to pluck them
from. Yeah. And you know, Mark, there's
a lot it it's heavy. It's a heavy duty
when you're asked to do these. And I've
done a number of death penalty cases.
And when you're, you know, when you're
death qualified and you're in an area,
you get called about things like this.
And you have to really think about it
because the facts of the case are
usually really heavy. You have to think
about your practice because you
virtually have to shut it down. I mean,
the last death penalty case I had, I had
to basically shut it down for 3 months
and just focus on that case. And it's
just a different it's a different case
when, you know, at the end your client
could die. That is a different level of
stress. And so, you know, it's it's not
a decision that I think is is given
lightly. And I know a lot of folks would
probably have some issue with how much
money the defense, you know, the defense
budget. There's a large defense budget.
I think right now it's $750,000.
there's, you know, $500,000 extra for
the prosecution, but these cases are
expensive and they're expensive because
it's the death penalty. Death is final,
>> right? And one of the things that you
find that are common in any we call them
in California, special circumstance
prosecutions, which makes you death
eligible. If the prosecution gets death,
the jury gives a death sentence. What
ends up happening inevitably is there is
what's called an IA claim, an
ineffective assistance of counsel. And
one of the ways that you can attack a
conviction and a death sentence is to
say that you didn't have an effective
lawyer defending you. And so it's kind
of preemptive to a degree, but also to
your point, 500 extra for the
prosecution. When was the last time
anybody ever um said to the prosecution,
"No, you you've gone over your budget."
I mean, that's one of the things that
cracks me up.
>> Well, and they get to pick and choose,
you know, they can say, "Oh, well, we're
going to spend a little less money." I
mean, I don't know if you all remember
the um the case down in in Georgia. His
name was Brian Nichols, but he's the one
that shot a judge and, you know, had
this rampage in the courthouse. when we
had his death penalty trial. You could
basically get probation on every murder
in the county because they spent all
their money on his case and that was a
decision. They wanted the death penalty.
They didn't get it, but you know, it was
a decision that they had to use their
resources as prosecutors and they did. I
mean, literally all the other cases we
were, it was like a fire sail, but you
know, that's the decision. Well, and you
know, the um the Coberger case, the
prosecutor there took a whole lot of
heat for cutting a deal where there was
no death penalty. Um whether people like
to admit it or not, a lot of times it's
precisely for the reasons you say
because there are budgets even though,
you know, cracks me up as we're sitting
here 15 miles away from where I'm
sitting in the city of Santa Monica.
They have a police scandal where they've
got hundreds of millions of dollars in
judgments. Nobody thinks proactively,
hey, how could we have stopped this in
the first place? How could we have? You
tend to because of the public outcry
always want to throw all of your
resources to something that's highle not
understanding that there's a cost to
that later on.
>> Right. Well, I just think about how much
Nathan Wade was paid to, you know, do
Fonnie Willings Willis's bidding. I
mean, over a million dollars. So, hey,
maybe some of that money can be spent on
this.
>> Well, I have a question about that. as
long as you're talking about it. I When
that happened, when he was appointed in
that case, didn't you say to yourself, I
think maybe you did, and maybe I've
already seen this. Didn't you say to
yourself, "How in the world did they
pick a guy with no prosecutorial chops
to do this case?"
>> That was the first thing I thought. Yes,
exactly. He's got something magic. That
was literally the first thing I thought.
How did he end up with this gig? because
there are people in Georgia and outside
of Georgia that I could imagine are
racketeering experts or election crime
experts or things like that. He's not
it.
>> Yeah. And uh that's that's the problem
sometimes when you get into these cases
that are kind of contrived for lack of a
better term. This isn't a contrived
case. This is a case that needs uh needs
to be prosecuted. Not the least of which
is because I think I still think and I
hate to go off onto the tinfoil hat
brigade, but you know, I watched Steve
Bannon the other day, for instance, and
I know Steve not well, but um and I know
that he's kind of a boogeyman for for
large swaths of America, but he asks a
lot of questions that I tend to I think
the defense is going to ask as well. I
mean, some of those text messages to me
seem so contrived. What do you guys
think?
>> Oh, absolutely. That's one of the
weirdest parts about this investigation,
even though it's so brand new, right?
But who in their right mind, we've all
been doing this for a long time, who
basically texts all the breadcrumbs to
all the answers that any investigator
could want to know on the heels of one
of the most horrific, biggest, notorious
assassinations
in the country. Who does that? That part
seems like I don't even know if he did
it. Is he being paid to do it? There's a
lot more to this story. And I don't like
putting on the tinfoil hat myself, but
there are a lot of questions you guys in
this case so far.
>> For those for those who always condemn,
you know, there is a we were talking
about you guys were talking about the
fact that you've got to have death
qualified counsel. You also have have to
have counsel who have thick skins
because you know I mean you you three
you two have experienced as have I where
you get identified with your client and
then it's oh you're you know how many
times I've defended the the world's most
hated person. Um and when that happens
you can't you have to it's the opposite.
You've got a duty to defend. You've got
a duty to zealously defend and not be
affected by that. But remember, in a
case like this specifically, and then
we'll talk about the David case, D4 bid.
Um there's the to me there's a lot of
questions and the only person who's
going to be asking those questions is
the defense lawyer.
>> Yeah. Well, and luckily they didn't wave
the preliminary hearing. So, we're going
to get to hear that. You know, a lot of
folks don't understand what the prelim
is, but it's it's the opportunity for
the defense to really find out what's
going on in a case. And so, they said,
"No, we want to have that we want to
have that hearing." and it's where the
prosecutor puts up usually their lead
detective and has them testify about
their investigation. And in this case,
it sounds like the defense is going to
get a lot of discovery before that
hearing. So hopefully that's going to be
a really interesting hearing. Um I don't
know, Mark, if you you heard what the
the judge I think we have a sought for
what the judge um said, but it kind of
cracked me up and and I I'll tell you
why it made me laugh in a minute, but I
think um I think we've got that s that
first sought.
>> Perfect. Look at you playing host. Thank
you. Go.
>> Let me be clear. I will not put my
finger on the scale of justice. These
proceedings will be open to the public,
conducted in accordance with the law,
and handled with diligence and
competence to ensure that justice is
never compromised. It is the standing
order of this court that Mr. Robinson
shall be allowed to appear in person so
he can fully engage with his attorneys
and participate in these legal
proceedings.
council. Regardless of who is watching,
whether it is the nation or a single
individual, we must fulfill our roles
with integrity,
civility, and diligence. I encourage
each of you to give your very best to
this case.
Neither Mr. Robinson nor the people of
Utah deserve anything less than the fair
and impartial administration of justice.
You know, I um as a little I hate to
make it sound like sucking up, but I
don't have anything pending, I don't
think, in Utah right now. I try I tried
a case there about 5 years ago in the
federal court. I And I watched because
my local council was trying cases uh
over in the state court. I It's a very
impressive place um for a lot of
reasons. I was very favorably, my
takeaway from Utah was that you get a
very kind of sober uh open transparent
process there. I don't know if you two
have had that same experience or not.
>> No, it's sober because they take some of
the alcohol out of the beer. I noticed
that when I went to Utah. Did you notice
that? Well, I no, the thing I never the
thing I never understood about Utah and
the alcohol and I ended up always not
drinking when I was there is because
they won't serve you more than two
drinks in 90 minutes. So, I said, "What
is what is the point of this? It makes
no sense." And if you're trying a case
there, it really is uh you know, how are
you supposed to do alcohol therapy when
you're trying a case?
>> Exactly.
>> Speak about what doesn't make any sense.
Why did the judge feel the need to say,
"I'm going to follow the Constitution.
I'm going to be impartial. Oh, one would
hope. I mean, he he's Wait, what else
did he say? He said he presume he's
presumed
>> said he was not going to put his finger
on the scale. Well,
>> and the state has to prove it beyond a
reasonable doubt. Thank you. I'm so
glad.
>> Thank you, Captain Obvious.
>> He's I think he's trying, you know, I
don't know about you, too, but sometimes
when I'm selecting a jury, I'll say,
"Can you give them a fair trial?" And
they'll say, "Yes, yes, I can." I said,
"But not the" And I always slam Texas. I
said, "Not the uh we'll give you a fair
trial, then take you out back and shoot
you." And they, you know, but I think he
was trying to preemptively say that with
I'm not going to put my finger on the
scales,
>> right? And I wanted to say, do you want
like an award for this? I mean, isn't
that kind of your duty, your oath? I
mean, sorry, but you know, he's a he's a
brand new judge. He was sworn in, I
think, what, 56 days ago. So, you know,
he is a brand new judge, and I'm sure he
knew that that first appearance was
going to be played and scrutinized. And
you know, I mean, it was it was lovely
remarks. It were lovely remarks that we
we hope aren't needed to be said. Um,
but you know, lovely set the tone and
probably telling the lawyers to behave.
No. What's his background?
>> I don't I don't know.
>> Oh, I don't know either. I just know
he's been 56 days. So, you know, he's
he's brand new. Um, and now he's got one
of the most high-profile um cases. You
know what? This actually reminds me of
Judge McAfee. He was a brand new judge
and he was the one that overheard one of
the highest profile cases. So, you know,
hey, maybe we'll see some good stuff out
of this.
>> It's so funny. You took the thought
right out of my brain. I was going to
ask you if you had deja vu because how
long was he on the bench before you had
>> Oh my gosh, just a couple months. I
mean, it was one of the first cases and
he was great. And he, you know, I mean,
I'm certainly not mocking this this
judge for saying he's going to be fair
and impartial and stuff, but you know,
you you do like it when they set the
stage and they're like, "Hey, I'm going
to make sure that everybody follows the
law." And I'm like, "That's what we
want." People ask me all the time, "What
do you want from a judge?" I'm like, "I
want them to follow the law." And I
don't want him to call me in when I'm on
vacation. That's really it. Ask for a
lot.
>> I've got one rule for a judge. Stay out
of my cross- examination. I don't care
what else you do. You can rule against
me on every motion. Just stay out of my
cross- examination.
>> You know, Judge Graph said something
about that. You would like him. He said,
"Hold on." He said, "In future hearings,
he intends to only speak when I'm needed
or it's necessary." And I was like,
"Okay, that's that's kind of what we
want from you." So, I agree with you,
Mark. That's that's what we want. Well,
don't you think I want
>> Don't you think, Mark, sorry, this judge
is like giving us a little glimpse into
the future that he's going to bend over
backwards to make sure that this
defendant is given a fair trial because
it's such high stakes. I think that's
what he's trying to say in his
>> I think so, too. And I think I think he
also is telegraphing, how's that for an
old school word? the fact or predicting
that he look he knows that he's got a
jury pool and a veneer that is going to
come there prejudging this case and so
he wants to make sure that he gives a
lot of latitude. I mean that this case I
mean the prejudgment rate on this case
is probably similar to to ones that you
only see every generation. I mean people
are going to come in and they're going
to have an opinion whether they want to
admit it or not.
>> Yeah. Oh, they are. It's going to I mean
it's going to come down to jury
selection if it gets that far, you know,
but that's I mean and that's what
happens in the death penalty cases. It
comes down to jury selection and you
know part of me thinks that the state
kind of tries to tip the scales a little
bit by seeking the death penalty because
then they get what's called a death
qualified jury. So you know which is a
much more likely to convict jury. So,
in, you know, a lot of times in cases,
not this one, but in cases that are
close, maybe they're motivated to seek
the death penalty cuz then they can get
a pro-death jury, which is a juror, you
know, I personally don't I mean, I may
get slammed. I don't agree with the
death penalty. I wouldn't be eligible to
serve on his jury. And a lot of people
don't realize that. Just if you have a
belief, you know, religious, moral,
personal, whatever it is, mine's legal.
You know, I've seen how the sausage is
made and I know how the sausage is made
and so I don't think the death penalty
is appropriate. But, you know, if you
have that, you're not qualified to serve
on a jury. So, we're going to see super
conservative jurors in this case for so
many different reasons.
>> And keep in mind also, it's not just a
death penalty state. They use the that
you can use the firing squad.
>> Firing squad. I know. Which is one of
the reasons I think the feds haven't
filed anything yet. I don't think the
feds want to step on the idea that they
could get the firing squad uh on a state
prosecution because you saw where the
feds came in almost immediately on Luigi
in New York because New York has
different issues and does not have a
firing squad. So the cynic in me says
that's one of the reasons they haven't
jumped in yet because certainly they
could. And interestingly to your point,
um, when I was doing Scott Peterson,
which was more than 22 years ago, when
they were qualifying,
one of the things I kept screaming about
to judge, the late Judge Dooki, was he
was in the death qualification excusing
people who said, "I don't believe in the
death penalty." And I kept saying,
"Judge, you have to ask the next
question. Can you set that aside?" And
he wouldn't do that. 1,600 jurors. We
went through prospective jurors. The
California Supreme Court reversed
unanimously the penalty phase of Scott
for not asking that second question, but
left the conviction in place. So that
kind of that legal loophole so to speak
kind of rewards prosecutors for going
over the top asking for the death
penalty and that almost tilts the scale
on the guilt phase in these cases.
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