[00:00] the way you're pastoring your churches
[00:01] is still the minority in the country
[00:04] bold courageous speaking on public
[00:05] issues being in the community I
[00:07] guarantee you guys know five 10 15 other
[00:09] pastors that you still probably get
[00:10] along with and they see things
[00:12] differently than you do oh yeah what
[00:14] what what are the top objections you
[00:16] hear from them as to why they're not
[00:17] contesting in the public whereare not
[00:18] taking these stamps the biggest one I
[00:21] always hear is I've got a divided
[00:22] congregation I got you know guys on this
[00:25] side and they've got their their Trump
[00:27] hats and then on this side we've got
[00:29] they've got their BLM hats and and I'm
[00:32] always trying to uh dance I have to do
[00:35] the dance so actually can I ask you guys
[00:37] this question Qui uh what would you tell
[00:40] the pastor that feels like he has to
[00:41] dance between two sides of his
[00:43] congregation how how can you give him
[00:46] the courage to well like what we were
[00:48] talking about just be bold and be
[00:50] courageous that there's different rules
[00:51] if you're in the ministry right it says
[00:53] this in the book of Jude it says this in
[00:54] Titus that if you're going to be in
[00:56] charge of a church you're going to be in
[00:58] the Holy because the whole book is
[01:00] basically about this from Priestly
[01:02] garments to pre- Ritual ceremonies which
[01:04] is you have different rules and that
[01:06] doesn't mean if if you're not cut out to
[01:09] be that that's okay you can go you know
[01:11] sell insurance or go be a developer
[01:13] that's fine but to to use the word
[01:15] preacher Pastor counselor Shepherd and
[01:18] then be a coward yeah I I don't consider
[01:22] you to be somebody worthy of the
[01:23] ministry and I I get attacked for saying
[01:25] that on my side what you asked uh the
[01:28] group was is a lot of P are fearful
[01:30] losing their losing their 511 C3 and
[01:33] they're they're they're scared to speak
[01:36] against what is the I guess the norm of
[01:38] government uh versus
[01:41] biblically yeah you know I mean you know
[01:43] not a single church has lost their C3 in
[01:45] the last years we tell them all the time
[01:48] and it's just an excuse they get I don't
[01:49] even know if they believe it fear the
[01:52] fear of man is a snare yes yeah yes how
[01:55] heard you say that Jesse I bet we can
[01:56] make a list right I'm sure you guys hear
[01:57] this could lose my 501c3 I have an elder
[01:59] board right I got bills to pay right um
[02:03] I don't know how to speak out on these
[02:04] issues I don't want to be political I
[02:06] only preach the gospel what am I missing
[02:07] what a WS down to Charlie is fear of man
[02:10] they have they've lost their fear of God
[02:12] and now they just fear man and and you
[02:15] know I'm I'm speaking as a pastor and I
[02:18] know the difficulty we all know the
[02:19] difficulties we've all watched our
[02:20] church shrink absolutely and then grow
[02:23] or grow yeah but one of the things that
[02:24] we have to remember is uh a lot of times
[02:27] we will we will not speak truth because
[02:30] we understand that there are nuances in
[02:33] certain members of our congregation's
[02:35] life well if I if I speak on this truth
[02:36] I don't want to offend this person
[02:38] because I know they've been through
[02:38] something and there's some Nuance to
[02:40] them so we we have a difficult time
[02:42] separating what needs to be spoken uh
[02:44] publicly from the pulpit and then our
[02:46] private conversations that we have with
[02:47] individuals and what we end up doing if
[02:49] we do that too much is we will no longer
[02:51] speak the standard of God from the
[02:52] pulpit and what we will do is we will
[02:54] speak to just the to the individuals
[02:57] whom we know in the congregation and as
[03:00] as a pastor our job is to feed the flock
[03:02] good food that means we feed them the
[03:03] word of God and let the Holy Spirit do
[03:05] the rest but when we start fearing men
[03:07] and their response to that then we
[03:09] completely give our authority over to
[03:10] the flock the flock doesn't direct uh
[03:13] the the church the pastor's job is to
[03:15] direct the flock and lead them the way
[03:17] God and that's why there's different
[03:18] rules for the shepherd right it has to
[03:21] be different rules criteria standards
[03:23] this pastors think that peace is the
[03:24] absence of conflict oh yeah right but it
[03:26] isn't it's the presence of Christ in the
[03:27] midst of the conflict so yeah so um not
[03:31] to pick on this guy but he is awfully uh
[03:33] popular and Andy Stanley and he has some
[03:36] strong opinions about this and so again
[03:39] we'll give him the respect that a lot of
[03:41] people have of him I certainly don't but
[03:43] I'm going to read his quote the reaction
[03:45] of evangelicals to political and
[03:46] cultural shifts in recent years revealed
[03:48] what they value most lurking beneath our
[03:50] Bible laced rhetoric Faith claims books
[03:52] and sermons is Relentless drive to win
[03:54] but the church is not here to win by
[03:56] every human measure Our Savior lost
[03:58] pause I don't even know what he means by
[03:59] that that's a very strange thing on
[04:02] purpose with a purpose we are his body
[04:04] we are not in it to win anything we're
[04:05] here to some in it for something else
[04:07] entirely that's what this book is about
[04:09] and the book is not in it to win it why
[04:11] choosing sides Sidelines the church so
[04:14] he's saying that the church should never
[04:15] make truth claims what is your reaction
[04:17] because I'm sure you hear some Garden
[04:19] variety of this talking point yeah the
[04:23] Bible says that the church is the pillar
[04:24] and ground of Truth so for us to not
[04:27] make truth claims or to not pick a sides
[04:29] it's to take a passive position and to
[04:31] allow evil to continue we cannot take
[04:33] that position when we go out and say
[04:35] well I just want to play Both Sides then
[04:37] what you're in fact doing is you're
[04:38] playing wickedness because if we if our
[04:41] job is to stand for truth then you have
[04:44] just relinquished all truth and you turn
[04:46] your flock over to Satan because they're
[04:47] going to listen to someone and if you
[04:48] won't lead them somebody else will sorry
[04:52] he says Jesus says I the way the truth
[04:53] and life there's one way to the father
[04:55] there's one way to bring our churches
[04:57] when people stop standing up and speak
[04:59] speaking for something then the cost of
[05:02] speaking Rises and which further causes
[05:05] people to stop speaking and then that
[05:06] rises until you have a nation of
[05:08] churches that don't want to say anything
[05:10] at all see some Churches think that if
[05:12] they don't speak out they're being
[05:13] neutral there is no neutrality you're
[05:15] either you're either raising the cost or
[05:17] lowering the cost of speaking the more
[05:19] we talk the less the cost of speaking
[05:22] out is and that's what you guys are
[05:23] doing right now that's what we're doing
[05:25] at this conference right now reversing
[05:26] the spiral of Silence right creating a
[05:28] spiral of courage right yeah yeah at the
[05:31] end of the day you know God hates evil
[05:33] and it's very clear in what he hates
[05:34] right if we look in Revelation 218 he
[05:37] talks about he gives a whole list of
[05:38] what's going on of who's going to burn
[05:40] the Lake of Fire and the beginning of
[05:42] that verse is the cowards if we don't
[05:45] stand up and start preaching truth and
[05:46] we to down you can consider yourself
[05:49] being thrown in the Lake of Fire and at
[05:51] the end of the day it's very clear evil
[05:53] is evil and righteous is righteous and
[05:55] what they do is we we don't recognize
[05:59] the progression that happens we think
[06:01] we're being kind and gentle and
[06:03] welcoming to everybody but it's the
[06:05] exact opposite when you're passive that
[06:07] leads to being permissive and you start
[06:09] permitting these things once you start
[06:10] being permissive you start protecting
[06:12] well that's their right and then
[06:13] eventually you start promoting it now
[06:15] you have a a black Square on your
[06:16] Instagram or Rainbow on there and then
[06:19] once you start uh promoting it then you
[06:20] start participating and then
[06:22] participation leads to predition and and
[06:25] that is the the subtlety of Satan so and
[06:28] it all starts with being we cannot take
[06:30] that stand
[06:33] [Music]
