Hello and welcome to the stream. My name is Matt with Triggers. Merry Christmas and happy holidays. I'm here with Kelly Raybon, investigative journalist, and John Bray for part two. John was one of the original exploding mic theory investigators, and he has dived deeper than anyone else that I've seen. As you will see today, he's also done lots of testing. Welcome, John. Now, we did have audio issues last time that hopefully have been worked out. We spent the last uh we spent about three hours last night trying to troubleshoot Streamyard and we found some bugs in their software and we have submitted those. We're going to do a walk through of John's theory and supporting evidence as well as diving much much deeper into the science and the research. But all these topics are of course just allegations. No one's accused of any wrongdoing or committing any crimes. So grab a beverage and get comfortable. Put your questions in the chat and we will get to them closer to the end of the stream. And let's go ahead and get into it and say hello to happy trigger happy Christmas with Santa. And notice his beer and his musket it looks like or some kind of flint lock and monster cookies. All right. [laughter] Hello everyone. Let's see. People are coming in and I'm hiding my camera because Streamyard is telling me my connection is iffy. So, all right. >> Well, that must mean we're doing good work, right? When the technical issues come to play, that means we are on the right track. That's what I >> Now, John, did you want to go ahead and introduce yourself to everyone who's seen you for the first time? >> Yeah. John Bray, uh, John Bray on X and Instagram. I'm pretty prolific on there. You can find any of my work, any of my theories have been laid out there probably two or three times at this point. >> All right. All right. And did you want to kind of walk people through kind of how you got into this like kind of what you do and how you got into this uh this theory? What kind of pushed you that direction? >> Well, the my whole interest in it started. I'm kind of like a a fluke. I thought that Charlie had a bulletproof vest on. My background is in body armor. So, I thought that I may have some expertise in the the subject, but it only took about three hours of research to realize he didn't have a bulletproof vest on. But at that point I was already invested and I it just nothing made sense about it. So I uh I have kind of an obsessive mind hyperfocused some say and I just kept diving deeper. Um and you know the more I researched the more inconsistencies I found and um technologies in such a way now that you can go about as deep as you want. So I just kept coming up with more questions and and finding more you know things that made me want to dive deeper. Now, for the people that don't know exactly what you do, do you kind of want to explain what we're looking at? We'll pull some of your Yeah, >> these are IoT IOTV collars. Basically, ballistic vest. Uh they're those collars particularly are made to protect your neck of all things. Um the army made, you know, about 200,000 of them with no means to clean them. And you can see the ones on the the dirty collars were just piling up and they had basically people going to war without body armor. So they came to us and we developed a means to clean them. You can see it worked pretty well and uh we built a whole plant to clean them and cure them and send them back out and we ended up cleaning you know just shy 200,000 vests before the kind of uh program got shipped off to Levvenworth for prisoner labor. So, we got outbid by captives, but that's how it goes. But I had a good time. I learned a lot and I got to help the country. So, that's always a a plus. >> All right. Awesome. Now, do you want to go ahead and share your theory? Kind of give like the general overview for people and then we'll start jumping like more into your science and that kind of stuff and into like the plant and everything else. >> Sure. I have one more question if we could just on John's background because what you guys are going to hear is quite an explosive literally theory and John given your background with uh Department of Defense and the extensive amount of knowledge that you do have do you have any concerns about repercussions potentially for you or your business you know about speaking out about this sort of non-traditional theory? >> Yeah, I mean you could always my payment processor could cut me off. I mean, there's so many ways now that you could have unintended consequences, but um I don't really I'm not a fearful person. It doesn't really, you know, I don't I don't stay up at night worrying about it. Um and I live in an area that's that's pretty safe. So, I I sleep well at night. I'll put it that way. So, I I think the truth is more important than anything else. >> Yeah. Let's go for it then. Dive right in. So, basically, um, from the get- go, the, um, the multiple angles of video, it made it apparent to me like the official narrative of a, of a single shot to the neck just didn't make any sense. Especially when you look at the videos in slow motion, frame by frame, it's pretty obvious that the shirt, the necklace, and the magnetic clasp, they all have very energetic movements well before you you've seen apparent neck wound. And you know, a 30 off6 is a very powerful rifle round, very fast. So if if we're to be led to believe that he was shot in the neck, we would see immediate, you know, devastation on the neck and it wouldn't really be able to cause, you know, much movement in the shirt. Certainly wouldn't blow his necklace up and over his head. >> And yeah, for those who who don't know exactly that movement that he's talking about, it's quite dramatic. You can describe it maybe even with the shirt that you have on. >> Yeah, I have the magnet clasp on. So, basically, you know, the the magnet clasp raises or touches his face almost and then the opposite side of the shirt uh raises up next to his cheek pretty much covers his his half his face and then his shirt balloons all over. You can see the freedom text. It it raises like a McDonald's arch, you know, across his chest. um and all that precedes in any appearance of the neck. So, you know, it's just you look at forensic science, it's just impossible for that much energy to be transferred into the the neck, especially that's a zone to the neck. It's it's basically a full of arteries and vessels, >> you know, vascular tissue full of pressure, pressurized blood. If a bullet strikes it, you're going to have blood immediately going everywhere. the high speed of the bullet is going to cause the blood to turn to small droplets that are basically like a a cloud. Um, and we didn't see any of that. Um, and then the wound itself has a rectangular shape and it it has a very delayed bleeding. It's 43 or 43 seconds from when the shirt first moves from when we see the first appearance of the neck wound and it's almost a full second before we see active blood coming out of the neck. So, it's just not physically possible for a bullet to enter that area with that highest speed and not have blood immediately start to, you know, in all directions start to come out. >> So, all of those things just kind of piqu your interest. You didn't initially come up with this mic theory though, right off the top? >> Yeah. Um, you know, I the first video I saw it I saw what I thought was a silhouette of a soft armor and you know a chest shot with soft armor on that the movement of his shirt made a lot of sense to me cuz soft armor catches like a it it it deflects the bullet and and and kind of like a a catcher's glove. It'll make like a cupping shape around the bullet and so all the edges of the soft armor pull in. So, you'll see the outline of the armor as it deflects the bullet and captures it. Um, and I thought that's what I saw, but like I said, it it it didn't take me long to realize he didn't have armor on. And that left me with even more questions like why is the shirt even reacting the way it was if you know if he's if he's supposedly shot in the neck. And then the first witness I saw was the the guy in the red Trump hat next to his wife. You know, he says that Charlie was shot in the chest. And there's just like that just always stuck with me. I feel like the first the first accounts, eyewitness accounts, they always like have a little little kernels of truth to them. >> Uhhuh. >> So that always had me kind of like suspicious. And the more I looked, the more angles that came out, the more I was convinced that, you know, something wasn't quite quite right because the the quality of the the videos kept getting higher and higher. So that we were able to see more and more detail every video that came out. >> I was able to kind of decipher more of what actually happened. >> You are getting a lot of love in the comments right now, including from Tough Gemini 337, who said, "This dude should be the chief investigator. So, props to you, John. You really have done a ton of work. Um, you know, we saw that strange movement with the shirt. And then I know you and I for a couple of months now have talked about some of the crazy different movement that we also saw in the back. Uh, what do you what do you make of that before we while we're talking about shirt movement? And then we'll we'll get back to, you know, the nitty-gritty of yours, of your >> The back of the shirt's really kind of still a mystery to me. Um, the the necklace obviously moves really fast. So, um, and it it's forced down before it it it kind of catapults over his head. Um, and his flesh for some reason is kind of like like he's shrugging. You can see it's like pulled up. So, you know, I still don't have a a solid explanation of what causes that other than just the shock wave. And, you know, the shock wave makes a lot of sense. If you look at the even the extremities of his body, you see that shock wave travel through his body. You see his hair kind of like fling up and down and then the ring comes off his finger. Um, and then like his whole body, when you look at the maps, his whole body raises up, you know, out of the chair and then back down. So there's a tremendous amount of energy that went through his body in a very short amount of time. So I think that's how you can kind of explain a lot of the the oddities of the event just by the the amount of energy that was kind of dispersed in them in a very short period of time. >> So let's get into it. There are you you've clearly done a ton of work on this. Can you talk about, you know, there's going to be people who are watching right now who are everything from hearing this theory for the very first time to some who have probably I've heard from people who watched our initial interview five times over. So they've really invested a lot of time into learning more about what you believe. So tell us how how is all this done >> in theory? >> So you know the uh at first I just followed the energy. I was just that amount of energy has to have a source. And um the the three things that we we can track and move, they all have to be tied together. They all moved around the same time. They kind of all moved in opposite directions. Um, so I just kind of focused back from that, traced that energy back to its very epicenter where it started. And that kept leading me to kind of this area where, you know, Charlie's mic was mounted much like the clip on my shirt. And it all seemed to center around here. His necklace was draped right around through this area. His shirt ballooned on the opposite side here. The text of the shirt rose up from there. So, I was left with what caused this energy? Like what could be this dense of energy, you know, to cause this reaction and and break a necklace and it flying up and over his head and then send shrapnel across his chest. Um, and then it wasn't even a year before the event with the is the Lebanon pedra attacks. And so that kind of like high energy explosive hidden in batteries that kind of opened it up to me. It's like, all right, so now we have a a target of opportunity. You have a microphone that's not on Charlie's person most of the time. It's handled by third parties. It goes through airports. It goes all over the place, right? Um, and then I found that video of them disassembling it. I saw how easy it was to pop the battery out. You don't even have to solder it. It's just a clip. Clip a new battery in, close it back up. It's still fully functional. And um when I looked into the details of the Lebanon attack, those devices were used for almost a decade before they were detonated. So it's like the level of planning that could go into this sort of thing. >> It made me worried that there could be a lot of other devices that, you know, potentially have loaded batteries and people have no idea about it. you know, they're just sitting in circulation. >> Well, now you said that the original ones were in circulation for a decade. So, that means that there's been at least, you know, 10 plus years of time for them to make something that's much more efficient, that burns cleaner and could be more devastating. >> Yeah, absolutely. And then batteries, the technology of batteries have increased. So, the potential to make a battery that's half the size but still has the same capacity is really easy. Like, it it happens all the time. So it's kind of like the the standard. So you could replace a battery of a older device with a battery of the same exact capacity and only have half the space taken up. So you have like a a good amount of space that you could put explosives and any other devices you want treated electronics >> while it still functions as normal. >> Yeah. You would never know. They go through airport scanners. They can go by bomb sniffing dogs. It's just it's almost undetectable. And then how would the detonation happen? >> And that's a tricky thing. And that that seems to be, you know, um there's a variety of ways that you could do it, especially when you have a wireless device. Not only do you have the ability to connect to it wirelessly, but you then you have a microphone on it also. So you could have a certain frequency that you send to it, you could have, you know, a wireless signal that goes through it. It could be on a timer. It could have a remote trigger. There's numerous ways that it could do it. The walkie-talkies that happened the day after the pager attacks, they still aren't sure how they detonated those. There was walkie-talkies that had the batteries on a charger that exploded. So, it wasn't through the walkie-talkie wireless system, like the battery itself had a detonator on it. and the the stuff that's put inside to create this charge. Um, it wouldn't change the weight of or would it would it change the weight or the feel at all? Like for Charlie, would it would there be anything that would feel different about the mic that time? >> No, it would be undetectable. The weight would be the same. Functionality would be basically the same. It would, like I said, it would be really difficult. Even, you know, the Hamas purchased these these pagers under suspicion. Like they ran them through airport scanners. Like they were looking for explosives and things hidden in them and they didn't find anything. So, you know, to have a unsuspecting consumer product, it's just there would be no way that you would know it. >> That's quite terrifying. >> For those who aren't familiar, can you explain kind of the shape charge and how it works? So a shape charge is basically a u a directional explosive that uses the principles of u acceleration through kind of constraining a expansion through a a small orphice. So you're and you know a traditional explosive it's just a radial force. It's going in 360 degrees where a shape charge you're giving it you're giving it a a path and then you're constricting that path and then opening it up. So you're creating a very directional jet, kind of like a much like how a rocket works. And so when that explosive goes off, instead of blowing up like a grenade, it's basically making a a high-speed stream of of you know, Mach 7 plus um expansive gas. And then as it passes through what they call the cone, which is like kind of like on a rocket where you have the heat shield, it's pulling materials off of the cone. And that's kind of like the aggregate in a water jet. It's just adding to the penetrating potential of the the jetream. and your belief or do you believe how do you believe it was supposed to work versus how it perhaps ultimately worked? >> Well, I think logically you would you would not want it to look like explosive device because then obviously that's a very sophisticated like assassination. It would have to be a nation state. You know, not anybody could just pull that off. So, you know, looking at it logically, you would probably want it to look like something that you could pin on somebody, right? So, you know, we we know the official narrative of a 30 30 off six impact. Um, a amateur shooter taking a a a shot, you know, from a cold bore under pressure, the easiest shot to hit would be center mass. So to me, in my mind, I always thought that it was made to replicate a center mass shot of a 30 off six. >> When you say center mass, meaning somewhere on his chest, >> upper chest. Yeah, exactly. >> Yeah. The the largest space or literal target. But Yeah. So, so then when the entire world sees this, you know, neck injury on Charlie, then explain how you think all of that shook out. Well, it it forced a hard pivot in the narrative. So, where it would have been very easy. I would have never looked into it twice if they claimed Charlie was shot in the chest, right? Everything would have been explained by that. You know, the shirt movement, the the microphone, the necklace, you know, as as as far fetch as it could, you know, seem, it's all within the realm of possibility. put a single shot to the neck causing all that reaction. It's just outside of the realm of possibility. You just can't really you can't that equation just doesn't work, especially the order of the of the events, how they unfolded. So, you know, I think that's why we just have a just a scramble of of narrative shifts and and I think a lot of the information that was leaked was leaked on purpose, whether it was just to obscure the truth or, you know, try to create, you know, a new a new narrative outside of the possibility of it being anything other than a rifle shot. >> So, we have this question here. They say please explain is a microphone transmitter relatively thin and if that's the case how could shape charge be planted into it? >> It's a good that's a good question and you know if you look at microshaped charges which is this certain type of shape charge um there's actually you know government contracts for these shape charges and they just fit inside of this device. So then it's not only possible you take traditional literature of shape charges you run the formulations that are in it and the penetration ability and uh the wound that they leave it it would not only would it fit in the microphone but it would create a wound channel that's almost identical to a 30 off6 impact. There are a lot of people who talk about that necklace and it has a very interesting narrative that has followed after the fact, but uh can you talk about how the necklace plays in to your theory? >> So, the necklace is kind of the the key to it all, the the speed of the necklace and the the trajectory of it. It lifts up and over his head. So, it it's and it and it snaps. So you have a continuous kind of chain that flies over his shoulder and you the the kind of direction that it moves causes his shirt. That's what causes the shirt to lift up. The the cross pendant basically gets forced like a pendulum across his chest and up around. So that's kind of like you have the explosive force going down into his chest, right? because the way his mic was mounted was like at a 45 and it was kind of like in this shape and the batter is on the back side of the mic right here. So, as that case opens up, it lifts his shirt up and then the shape charge goes off which is going to put a jet stream down into his chest and it's going to hit that pendulum that that uh pendant and it's going to force it to go this direction. But it's only going to be able to go so far before it pulls on his necklace and then it's going to like a pendulum swing up. You see it almost come out of his shirt. >> But right when the cross almost comes out of his shirt, the chain breaks. So the slack is let off of it. And then you see it actually like the slack around his ear. That's why people thought he had like a earpiece on because you see it actually like bend around his ear before it flies up and over the back of his head. And it was a rather thick chain. And I think that's why some people had initially assumed that it was, you know, tubing of some sort perhaps or even Yeah, there we go. Right there. Thank you. Uh thank you, Matt. That it it looked pretty thick. >> Yeah, it looks like a big thick wire when you first see it. Like um and you can see how it it pulls on the back of his neck like it was a lot of force down on it before it snaps and snaps up. And that kind of explains the speed that it comes up at because as soon as it's it's forced down and it snaps, now there's nothing holding it from going down anymore. And that expansive force is is at the tail end of it. So now it's just a loose end. And so you have this gas that's escaping at all areas that it can and it's going to basically blow that necklace up. Not only is it whipping back from it being forced down and snapping, but then you have the gas that's escaping of his collars of his shirt that's going to push it up even more, accelerate it. It's the fasting mo fastest moving object that I've tracked. It's faster than the shirt movement. It's faster than the magnet movement. So, whatever put energy into it, it was it received it almost immediately. Now, is there any chance that the pendant, the cross, something on the necklace may have also contained some type of charge? >> Yeah, like I said, it's the fastest moving object. So, either something put energy directly into it or it had a lot of energy in itself like um you know, the the pendant itself, you know, could have been you know, part of tampered with something like that. Yeah. >> Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you can see you see how it's it's the it's directional, right? There's more force being dispersed on his uh opposite side of the mic than on and the shirt kind of reflects that. >> The shirt raises up way across here where >> the shirt on this side expands, but it it's more, >> you know, secondary. It it is not nearly as dramatic as the movement on that side of his shirt. >> Unexpected. >> Now, for people who didn't see the first stream, can you kind of explain how you came to those conclusions and got those visuals and that kind of thing? >> Yeah. Bas basically I had the idea was the multiple angles of the video and then the text of his shirt. It was such a high contrast where you know you had the magnetic clasp. Once I figured out the brand and I knew the exact size of the magnetic clasp, then I could get the exact size of the text across his shirt, I could basically triangulate the movement of his shirt. So then I I took those measurements, I plugged it into code, and I took the multiple videos and that basically allowed me to track and map and get pretty accurate speed and the amount of energy that was kind of dispersed. This is one of the earlier maps and so this was like me developing the code as I went around. But you can kind of see how it's focused basically on the highest contrast areas of the basic movement of it. And you see the the first movement of the center is down and then it's up on the other side. So it's like you can kind of see the wave as it as it passes by. My first run of code, I was actually trying to figure out where in the where in his chest that he was shot. So that's kind of where I started. And as I started to get results, I realized that it was something tied to the area of his of his sternum. And the way the mic was mounted, it it kept kind of mapping in this area, which you know, when I saw the video of the battery being on the back side of the microphone, that's when kind of everything came together for me. If we were able to see the autopsy, fingers crossed, someday we'll be able to see one that, you know, is is authentic. Um, but what do you think that what do you think we'd see? >> Uh, I think you would see massive chest damage. The upper chambers of his heart would probably be heavily damaged. Um, I would expect probably some spinal damage, too. It would it was from my calculation calculations, it would be able to to penetrate the depth of his chest. So, um, and then his physical reactions clearly show some brain stem and midbrain damage. So, you know, that hydro hydrostatic shock, the shock wave from the impact would be able to explain all that. So it's, you know, not only do we have the kind of physical reaction of the the things that are on his person, but his actual physical reactions of his body, like the his arms going out, his hands going in, his hands being like clasped like he's trying to close them, and especially his legs. If you watch his legs, his knees go together, and he actually lifts himself out of the chair slightly before he falls over. So all of that is classic forensic evidence that he had midbrain and uh brain stem damage. And then we have, you know, the the security saying he had doll eyes when he hit the ground. So >> like all these things are lining up that he had massive brain damage and that can't be explained by impact to the neck. it would he would have to have that bullet would need to hit like his C1 vertebrae for for that sort of damage to happen and the trajectory just doesn't match for that >> and it's been a moving target ever since. Go ahead Matt. >> Yeah, so just because a lot of people are asking this in the comments um and for those that are wondering why I don't have video uh for some reason my video is acting up today. U it was audio yesterday and in the last stream and now it's video. Um, so a lot of people are asking about you're kind of talking about the pressure wave and the shirt moving and all that kind of stuff. So of course they're asking about the like pressurized air canister or something similar pushing a projectile. Is that is that something you've ruled out or is that something you're still open to? >> Yeah, this is another thing I have a lot of expertise in. I've built and designed high pressure systems so I understand like the amount of metal that it takes to house a high pressure gas. It it it would be pretty obvious like you would you wouldn't be able to have enough gas to propel the amount of energy that we saw. You need an explosive. You need a denser form of energy than compression. >> It would be difficult to conceal that on his body and white shirt. >> Yeah, it would be the problem is the weight really more than anything else. The size and the weight. It would just be really obvious. >> Uh someone I've seen someone ask several several times. So, I want to make sure that I acknowledge they were asking is this jewels? Is this in jewels? How much energy are we talking about? >> Um, so for the movement of the shirt, I mapped it at like 100, but that's that's like that's excess energy, right? That's not energy. It's going into the shape charge. We're over 350 into the shape charge. And it's a it's a very concentrated 350. So you're looking at 350 like in a 3 mm radius. So you know more than enough to penetrate flesh and turn it to liquid. Um shaped charges are extremely efficient at you know liquefying things. So flesh is is a very low order of density. So it wouldn't have any issue you know traumatic damage almost instantly. >> So what about the sound? How do we kind of rectify the sound? What would this shape charge typically sound like in this scenario versus what people allege that they heard? >> Right. Um kind of like the energy is very concentrated. The sound's also very concentrated. So you don't have like a radial blast of soundwave. It would sound a lot like a a firework and it would be people that were kind of in front of the shape charge. So on the opposite end of the jet, they would barely hear anything. Um where people on the side where the gas is is kind of escaping. They would hear more of like a a firework type of sound, like a crack. And just so we're clear for people listening, I know you mentioned that you think there might have also been a gunshot, but some people were asking on X, is there a possibility that because the explosive can reach supersonic speeds for the feet per second that it can move and that kind of stuff. Is it possible that that that was the supersonic crack that people heard or do you still think there was a separate gunshot? >> No, I'm almost I'm convinced there was a a gunshot. The gunshot just served too many strategic purposes. It gives you explanation for the events that you see unfold. gives you a acoustic cover and it also ties the, you know, the assassination to the pathy >> which would, you know, getting some someone to just show up in an area. It's pretty easy. I mean, that's basically all you would need is someone to walk around the area, be seen on a few security cameras, you get a gun that's tied to them, you let a shot off on it. I mean, it's and there pretty much, you know, not much defense that they could put up against that. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even if uh the person, the psy was just merely placing a gun in the woods and that was the extent of what they did, right? And then there was someone else who was up there firing off this decoy shot, it could be as simple. >> Yeah. As long as the weapons can be tied to the py, I mean, it's pretty much a case closed. They wouldn't even need gun residue on them. I mean, I think you could get most juries to to if they had a video of someone even looked like them and that they could prove that they were close enough to be like, you know, theoretically responsible for it and it was their weapon or could be tied to them, that would be enough for most people to to convict them. >> Yeah. Especially when the arrest didn't happen until 33 hours later. >> Yeah. And then they just leak a bunch of information about them that, you know, made people easy to pass judgment on them. I don't think there's anybody that got won over in Tyler's court by all the information they were leaking about him. >> Right. Yeah. Interesting how the the narrative shifted quickly. The the the information released was was quite subjective um in their favor. Oh, do you want to talk about let's talk about the the little bits and pieces. What are what are the little the little black bits and pieces? This is something I've been every video I've been hunting for fragmentation. I've been trying to find the actual device or circuit board. Um, but you know, there's such a high energy explosion. I don't think there was a lot left of it. But this is very telling because you have two different types of ABS plastic. You have the glossy type like that and then you have some flat black pieces that are kind of scattered about on the edges of the trim of the seat there. And that microphone has both. So the outside shell is that glossy black where the inside's more of a flat back black. And the battery is directly behind that O. So theoretically, if the shape charge is is hidden in the battery, that kind of glossy cover is not going to stand a chance. It's going to get blown into, you know, a million little fragments. And I had you find those fragments in, you know, not only the floorboard there, but also on the table um where Charlie was the platform that he was se seated on. There's some fragments on the table also. >> Do you know this is one thing that had occurred to me uh this week. It it appears in that photo that there are no um floor mats and I thought that was kind of interesting. I mean, we're talking about a luxury vehicle here. Why would there not be floor mats in a luxury vehicle? >> Well, it's after the FBI went through it. So, I would imagine, you know, say that you that they were looking for the necklace. So, I imagine they were looking for other things also. And you the floor formats being like a pile carpet, they're going to be a lot more difficult to get all the fragments out of kind of like the grass got paved over. It would be impossible to get all the fragments out of the grass. So, >> I can only assume if there were uh mats in the car, they would be taken as evidence. >> Yeah. Well, well, let's hope they were taken as evidence and not just chunked out somewhere, you know, and destroyed. >> My thoughts on that. So, that's interesting you say that. So say they took those because it could have been more stuck in it, little pieces that are easier to find. >> But why would they leave behind what's there? >> Yeah, it seems a little lazy to me, too. Why wouldn't you vacuum it up? But, you know, they just drape the necklace over it. Like I said, it just seemed like a kind of a scramble. I don't think that it was um >> I think if it if the neck wound wouldn't appear, it would have been a lot easier. And I think that's what they were prepared for because I don't think anybody would have been questioning anything, right? It would have just been opened and closed. But there's just left with speculation now that we have like the the odd events if you have like two the neck wound and then the shirt and the necklace. You can't really explain it all. So you can't prepare people for that. So they're kind of just left in operational scramble. And I think that's these little tidbits that we're seeing the little sloppinesses from that. >> Yeah. I just I I've I wanted to call attention to that because whether the floor mats were removed potentially beforehand, uh maybe someone knowing what was going to happen going into the event or that they were removed after the fact um to avoid any additional evidence being, you know, taken. Either way, I think it's interesting. >> So now, John, I have a question for you. I don't know if you saw the videos I did with Kelly where this random person to this day I have no idea who this person is. I don't know if they're an agent. I don't know anything about them. Uh this person sent me some very extremely detailed information about what they thought happened. Part of what they sent me is these images here and they kind of obviously zoomed in on it, but you can see these like fragments of pieces that were falling down. There's one here. >> I don't know if you can see that very well. Yeah, >> there's one there and then there's a separate one here and then there's, you know, a couple other ones that are shown in different areas. But I was curious. I said, um, is there any way that black plastic, like we would see with the microphone, any way it can turn white when burned? It said no. But it did say some plastics can appear to turn white under intense pressure or mechanical stress. Is there any chance that that shape charge could have turned some of it white and that's what we see in those pictures? >> Yeah, absolutely. And then you have the PC board too, like the uh the actual circuitry of the device. Um when you break those open, when you snap a circuit board, it it generally has like a white kind of like powdery residue because it's it's silicone. So, you know, and then the the hard kind of like square angles of it that again this kind of not a natural shape, right? It's not going to be like something organic, something cast and the layers of that that microphone. If you broke them apart, like if I took a hammer to one, that's basically what you would be left with. Little fragments of, you know, right angles and shattered pieces on one side. And just real quick, everyone, make sure you hit the like, make sure you subscribe, look for Kelly Rayon on Instagram, X, and YouTube. And she is officially monetized. We're just waiting for YouTube to actually push it through. So, make sure you put some hearts or something in in chat. Show her some love. And then John Bray, I'll put his information up here again. >> John Bray on X, John Aaron Bray, Aaron, A R O N, and same on Instagram. So, if you want to reach out to them, show them some love. And obviously John is here being very brave and sharing this information. And of course this is just allegations. This is just research he's done, but some of the stuff he's done pulls together a lot of the pieces that other people didn't or weren't able to put together. So I just want to make sure you guys realize that. And also any super chats that happened today are going to go to John as well. So if you want to support John, if you want to donate to him or send him money, you can contact him directly. but also any super chats or anything you do today are also going to go to John. All right, go ahead and All right, so now I want to talk about like very briefly about Hibs. So everyone I don't know if everyone knows this is this is Jack. This is Jack Hibbs and this is the Calvary Church Chapel pastor and he's very popular. I believe he's about 70 now. Now Butch is his name is actually Burton is supposed to be his brother and Candace to realize what does it mean when we talk about separation of church and state. Here to discuss all of this with me is Pastor Jack Hibbs. He is the author of >> interviewing that gentleman. So he's been around for a while. This was 5 years ago. Um, so he's been, you know, very integrated integral part of TPUSA and and the whole movement back then. And it's interesting because when you search for this Burton or Butch Hibs is the nickname or at least that's how his brother refers to him, you don't find much. There's maybe the two photos you see from that day at UVU and then this one other photo over here which is him out shooting and they do look like him looks like the same person. So that's interesting as well. If you search, I use chatgpt and grock and yes, I know you guys hate that. You say that they have no validity, but um it is interesting that they couldn't find anything. Um especially for images for this person, except for the ones from that day at UBU. And then just a side note, looks like his father um it says over here his name is Burton, but listed under the surviving children, it says Butch Hibs of Orm, Utah. >> [snorts] >> So he lives in Tennessee now apparently or maybe he has multiple homes but I thought it was interesting that it was Butch officially not Burton. So it kind of seems like Butch is his real name and Burton is his nickname. So coming over here a lot of people were asking do you think that possibly this guy like Algeist and other people brought this up. Do you think that this guy is Mike Mash in disguise? So, really quick, I want everyone who's in chats on all the different platforms, if you think that these two are the same person. The one on the left, that is Mike Mash. He is a very well-known Hollywood super like special effects guy, like out of this world, has Emmys and everything. The guy on the right, this is supposed to be Burton or Butch Hibs. He's the brother of the pastor at TPUSA. If you think that they're the same person, put a one in chat. If you think they're a different person, put a two in chat. I'm very interested to see what you guys think. All right. So, while you do that, we'll keep going here. >> And for anyone who is joining us on X, too. Um, please reshare the space. Um, and feel free to come on over to YouTube if you want to see all the visuals because we are diving deep um on the YouTube side. But we appreciate all our folks on X as well. >> Yeah, for sure. and you you should be able to see the um the live over there, I think, if Streamyard is working the same way. But if not, yeah, if if not, then definitely come over and check us out on YouTube. Um but I've had people like Jordan Henshaw, a lot of people know him. He's in almost every stream on the Charlie Kirk stuff. He's telling me to go to the school and check out all the work that Mike McCash does. And basically, I can't show it because it's very gory. Um and actually, let me share the right thing here. And I see while you're pulling that up, I see someone talking about the teeth being different. You know, you have to remember prosthetic teeth. I mean, all of those things can easily be changed. So, the interesting thing about Butch is that there are not many public pictures of him for us to get a point of reference of what he looks like on a normal day. So, we're we're doing the best we can at this point. >> Yeah. Now, there's a lot of people thinking that they don't look the same, but this guy, what he does for a living, he literally does special effects to show blood and change the way people look and do really, really gore stuff like you would see in a horror movie from like Friday the 13th back in the day. That's what he does for a living. And he has emies in it, right? And I can't, like I said, I can't show it, but he has courses where he talks about the spray and the flow and bladders and everything to make it look the most realistic that it can. applying prosthetic necks. Uh, you know, I mean, it's it's fascinating. It is really f I think he worked on Stranger Things, if anyone is familiar with that show. Yes, >> I believe that was one of the the big awards that he won for was Stranger Things. >> So, we have Techie Head. Thanks for the super chat. Uh, Mike Mash is the guy in the blue shirt that got interviewed. Look at the eyes. So now you can see here this is a picture of Mike Mash kind of on you know fancy and he has like these kind of crystal clear I guess blue would you call that blue eyes. So yeah I mean look at the eyes but the other guy's wearing sunglasses so it's kind of hard to compare that. >> Yeah I mean really between the beard, the sunglasses and the hat, you know we've got about this this much of the face to work with. So, you know, we we need we need to keep digging. >> Okay. So, now having looked at all that, John, I don't know if you've seen all of that or put any time into that at all, but you have some of the most expertise I've seen of anyone on this topic. So based on everything you know and everything you've seen, the software that you've used to measure everything, looking at the the blood flow and the fluid flow, looking at the chest movement, um you said you possibly heard that like his chest was caved in and all these different things. How do you reconcile with the idea that maybe this was staged and Mike Mash was there in disguise as Butch Hibbs and somehow this was all faked? Well, I kind of researched that through um his physical reactions. The hardest thing to be able to act would be the immediate reaction to it. And either he was very well trained and you know is a very good actor um or it was an authentic you know kind of kill shot because his his um posturing and his physical reaction and the way that he falls is just I I would I would have a hard time believing that he was just you know oneoffing that you know first take you nailing it like that. It would just be really really difficult for me to believe. and the um the type of blood flow that we saw. It was just it it it matched the type of blood flow and his physical reactions all matched somebody that had you know extreme trauma to the chest. And so it either it was perfectly planned and you know he nailed it or we saw a real event. So yeah, I really wish we could show you guys the flow. Um they can see it on your ex, right? the blood flow and the square shape and all that. >> Yeah, X is the only place you can see it. >> Okay, let me pull up those uh images that you sent me. Let's see. Where's that at? >> And while you're pulling that up, I'm just going to give a shout out. We see Baron is in the house and he came through with a big donation for you, John. So, [laughter] >> yeah, absolutely. >> Boom. Great show. John has been great. Yeah, John is awesome. And I hope you guys can work together and kind of dig into this stuff together as well. And if and obviously if you guys don't I mean I'm sure everyone's already on Baron's uh on his YouTube and subscribed and all that stuff, but if you haven't, he does some great like um he pulls great strings, right? He doesn't necessarily come out and say, "Hey, this is what happened. This is the exact theory." But he does ask very good questions. He gets people thinking and like you said, he's kned all of you to be official Baron Knights. So, get out there and and find some stuff and and send it our way or present it yourself if you have the domains. Um, let's go ahead and I'm gonna pull that thing up. If you guys want to continue talking, I'm going to pull up the images that you sent me about the square area for the neck and I'll see if I can get those on the stage here shortly. >> Yeah, this is really what opened it up for me when I started running the edge definition. Just trying to catch, you know, hard right angles out of out of fluid flow is very unnatural. So um the the blood was so peculiar to me um I wanted to run analysis on it. The easiest analysis was run an edge analysis. So it's basically going to put heart lines on anything that has a hard edge to it which blood flowing naturally is just going to be you know very round fluid. Um, so when I did start to see these images pop out and you see there like hard right angle rectangular shape and then I I mapped the size of it and it was matching, you know, both the size potential size of the battery and the magnetic clasp. It was just the fact that you had a the wound had a rectangular shape that that map to the same size of both those objects. And now we see a object kind of like cascade out of the wound and then it's followed by the heaviest bleeding. It kind of like put all the pieces together. Like the reason we saw delayed bleeding is because there the object that caused the wound was basically plugging it. Um and and when it fell out, we see the heaviest bleeding followed immediately after it. Um and that again explains kind of like the frantic search around the site. You see uh the videos of of after the event after Charlie's, you know, toted away in SUV. The security guys are kind of like combing the area, looking down at the grass, kicking it around like they were looking for something. And little things like this fragmentation, the magnetic clasp, like all these are key details that would need to be, you know, cleaned up because if anybody found it and could test it for residue, it would blow the whole thing open. >> That's what I I was just about to ask. What all do you think that they were looking for? Because I mean that was so odd. I have never before seen people be able to just walk around a crime scene like that. I don't care if you're security or whatever. Like you are not a a police officer. >> Yeah. Yeah. It was it was really odd. It seems like everybody on the security team was was head down shuffling their feet through the grass looking around and it was for a pretty big distance around the tent, but they never went too far away from the tent. So to me, I think they were just looking for fragmentation. I think that they that that they knew that there could be pieces all over the place and one of those pieces being found by somebody um could blow the whole thing open. It's the same reason the SD cards got pulled and we haven't seen any videos from those cameras that were closest to them because those cameras would have caught the fragmentation. I mean, if I could run, you know, my maps and those those cameras, like there's no telling I could tell you exactly, you know, the amount of energy where it started, like how how much, you know, the charge they put in it, the the type of injuries that he would have had. Um, and we would have been able to track every piece of fragmentation. You know, we're dealing with cell phone cameras that were, you know, 30, 40 feet away, and we're still finding things in them. So, it's it's pretty clear that they were they were they were put in the know that they needed to to scan the area for every little thing they could cuz they weren't looking for big objects. Like, you don't look for big objects shuffling your feet around like, you know, they were looking for something small. >> They'd been tasked immediately with looking for something. >> Yeah. They weren't looking for Charlie's killer, I'll tell you that. >> That's Oh, yeah. Or to see if there was another per potential threat out there either. Yeah. >> Okay. So, here's a super chat from Milton Sophie. Thanks for the super chat. Since they destroyed much of the evidence, would residue be left from charge on Charlie's chain or anything else? >> That's a great question. That's always been my number one. Like, why wasn't the chain tested just for, you know, just for due diligence? Like, why wouldn't you test the chain? It was obviously like at the center of the of the event. like it would have something to to show you and to the fact that they made it like a emotional center point of the whole event made me even more suspicious of it. Like there's a there's it's the the fally of emotion, right? You you tie it to a motion grieving widow holding Charlie's neck has a little blood on it and then the New York Times article saying the medics ripped it off. Like we didn't see any medics touch Charlie. They're talking about medics at the hospital. Like it didn't make it to the hospital. was supposedly found in the SUV. Like the whole story of the necklace just seems like a a hodgepodge of just, you know, people scrambling to try to explain something that's not explainable by the official narrative. Like the necklace is the single most important piece of the whole event. Like it it's the most suspicious thing to me. And you know, I think that there's no way that that necklace doesn't have residue on it. So, the real necklace is either long gone, locked up somewhere, and we're seeing like a stage necklace or, you know, just the fact that they won't even admit that it was broken and that the pendant and the necklace were separated. Like, somebody had to put them back together reunite these two separated pieces for to plant them somewhere. And then the way she's holding them, you know what I mean? Like, it's like, are you trying to hide the fact that it's broken or, you know, it's just like a weird way the whole ordeal came out? the way the whole way the necklace is handled just makes me even more suspicious of it. And then we had the best the clearest video of the event. 60 frames per second, 1080p, like you can't deny that the necklace was blown up and over his head. Like there's just no way you can. Um, and they just won't address it, which makes, you know, it just ps on to the suspicion. >> There's so much symbolism and then it almost does feel like we're being taunted in a way with some of these things, too. Now, do you think that let's just say theoretically the necklace there was a replica, say one of the four prongs of this of the cross or something else, maybe one of the other pieces of the pendant were PETN or something similar and they were painted to look like metal and be real and everything. And we know that his wife had the necklace the night before, so it could have been swapped out, right? I don't think it could have been modified that quick, but it could have been swapped out. Is there any chance that the stuff you're seeing, including the energy movement and the programs you've run, is there any chance that that necklace could have been the source of this? >> Yeah, it's right in the area like it's it's in the exact same area. The you know, the microphone to me, the reason I immediately gravitated the microphone because we had a working example of it less than a year before. But like you said, that was a decade old event. like they've had so many so much time and I can't go into it now, but I'll share with you later. I have something related to it where I have a suspicion that a uh a lapel pin has been laced with explosives before and used to assassinate someone. >> Interesting. >> There's pretty good evidence of it, compelling evidence to support that. So, this wouldn't be a a new thing necessarily. I think we have a working case of a jury being kind of loaded with explosives before to assassinate a political figure. So >> now the question I have with that is if it was a necklace and we just saw that image that showed the squarish shape and the size of it coming out of the fluid, there's no part of the necklace that's that large, right? Would that kind of defeat that theory? >> Well, you could there you could still explain it. I think that you could still get the necklace could possibly, you know, we know that the trajectory of the microphone, right? And it lines up perfectly with the So, you know, energetically it's less likely, but it's still within the realm of possibility that that necklace somehow, you know, got caught or grabbed onto the microphone because it's a it's a a hunk, right? It's a huge old 30 g piece of plastic underneath the shirt and that that necklace is moving at a rip like it was. it could grab it and cause that movement across his chest and fling a piece of shrapnel out of it. It wasn't a high velocity impact that hit his neck. That's why we see it so clearly like it's not a blur. Like it was just enough energy for it to penetrate and hit, you know, those vital vasculars in his neck that cause the bleeding we saw. And that's why the bleeding was so delayed and the wound so strange looking. Like you can almost see us his flesh just slowly stretch out. You know, you see the bulge on that side of his neck. Like that's not like cavitation from a high impact. Like you would need a high-speed camera to really capture that. We saw a medium speed impact with a blunt object. So, you know, I think both of those could be the the energetic. You know, it doesn't take a lot of energy to cause that. It it was and that's why you couldn't foresee it either. It was just a freak accident. >> And if you look at, for example, like Dr. Martinson and Brandon Stabbro and some of the other people that shot uh Ballistic Gel and shot those dummies, you see insane amounts of cavitation, but it does tend to be it kind of goes in every direction, right? It's like 360. If you look at Charlie, it kind of seemed like it was on one side. On one camera, you really see it. On another camera, you don't see it so much. So, that was very awkward. So, you're saying that's explained because it's a slower type of cavitation. >> Yeah, we're medium speed and it's packed. It's, you know, more more like, you know, somebody with a slingshot than somebody with a rifle. Okay, so I'm just looking at super chats here. Um, this is a good question. Donnie B, thanks for the super chat. Why was there no blood on the center of Charlie's shirt or burn marks? Right. Yeah, that's a the the burn marks are explained by the the nature of of the the explosive, but the um the no blood kind of had me perplexed for a while. Took took some research to really kind of be able to explain that. And it's the nature of the shape charge. You're basically charring the flesh and then the the acceleration of it. The wound on the outside is very clean. It it's you wouldn't have much bleeding coming out of it. And because of that, that jet is propelling inside of them. Most of the trauma is internal. So if you look at even what would be expected at the hospital, like physicians would have a hard time distinguishing a shape charge impact from the size of the microcharge we're talking about from a rifle impact. It would look very similar. >> All right, we have a question about what was ejected. So then what was ejected from the entrance wound? like what what I guess in your theory, what pieces do you think could possibly have caused that wound and what you see coming out of it? >> The only two objects on the microphone that had enough density and were rectangular were the battery, the clip, and the the magnetic clasp. So, one of those three objects had to cause the wound. It explains the rectangular shape, the delayed bleeding, and then the the object that's falling out of his neck. And then the trajectory, we know that the microphone was heading that direction and we know it had enough speed to just penetrate the neck and we know we see it fall out later. So the only explanation it has to be one of those three objects. All right, we have another super chat from Mr. Turpin. Hey Mr. Turpin, I'm thinking that Brian Harple had a remote control in his pocket to turn the wireless mic on or off when it was used to cause feedback. What are your thoughts on that whole um like the electrocution theory and like pieces of that? Like what are your thoughts on that? Overall, >> I just think that he didn't have a great view. He wasn't really like it would need to be timed well with the ri the [clears throat] rifle shot and um he didn't seem to be paying a lot of attention. You know what I mean? That's what was always my criticism of like a lot of the security team. They didn't really seem to be doing a lot of like scanning the crowd or looking at rooftops. There was a few of them that were actively doing it, but he kind of just seemed to be lolly gagging around. He didn't seem to really be on task. Um, Flood was more on task. Like he seemed to be like in the no more than Harpool was. So, um, and then the timing of it, it's not quite right for me, too, when I look at the timing. Kind of like with the the the sleeve pull, like when you look at it a glance, it looks like something, but when you look at it closely, the timing is just not quite right. All right. And John for there's a lot of people praising you for coming out and being brave about this and everything. And of course everyone um if you get a chance go over to his social media. He's on X John Aaron Bray. That's Aaron A. And on Instagram, John Aaron Bray as well. Um I think let's um how about we talk about the Tennessee plant. Should we um shift gears to that for a bit? >> Yeah, let's transition into that. So John, you want to launch into this? This was uh just one month after >> Yeah. So these people were actually contracted to make a device like we're talking about a microshaped charge. So a shaped charge that's you know millimeters in size in both directions. High energy explosive made to you know uh breach doors or or you know they don't specifically specify you know attack soft targets but it could very well if it's small enough to to to fit in a device you could you could put in a device and and attack someone with it. And uh they're they're one of the few people that would be able to have the expertise to not only manufacture but to handle the explosive these high high density explosives. And um 30 days after event that facility we're looking at which was the facility that made those those specific you know microshaped charges it turns to dust basically. So it's it's the timing is is beyond suspicious. there was any evidence in that building that could tie, you know, them to that event, it's not there anymore. I mean, and 16 people lost their their lives there. God bless them. Um, and you know, if they witnessed anything or knew anything, obviously, they're not telling their stories anymore. What I found very suspicious was the plant manager was only 30 days on the job. So that the previous plant manager left just around the event. So, you know, it's just there's too many layers of of suspicion there. And from my research of trying to track down to see, you know, if this previous plant manager carried on in the industry, right, people change jobs all the time, but he doesn't seem to be anywhere. I can't really track him down. And then he has numerous addresses beforehand. It just the the weirdness just kept getting deeper the more I looked. So, you know, at that point, if anything kind of like put my fear factor on, it was it was that event, you know, 30 days after they they blow a whole building up and 16 people like if it was to to cover up evidence, it's obviously that people are they're they're desperate to keep this thing a secret. And it was a small facility anyway. So, you know, it would be hard to keep this project under wraps. Um, you know, without just eliminating everyone. >> Well, the way these contracts work too, like they're very >> they keep these controlled substances, those are these high explosives like the inventory is tightly controlled. They they have a certain amount that they do testing, destructive testing on set, but you keep such precise records, but there's a little delay in it before someone would catch on. Say a little bit of it snuck out or they replaced it with a, you know, some dummy, it would eventually get tested and they would get found out. So, you know, if the vent went off without a hitch, they could just replace it again. But the fact that there's going to be scrutiny on that that kind of source, especially with them making the actual device, you I think that it would give them more than enough motivation to decide just to scrub the whole place. And that's that's basically what they did. I mean, there's nothing left. There's there's no evidence to be gathered there. >> And the timing of it all, it was a very short window for this contract. The contract had just wrapped up, you know, a couple of weeks before the event. Yeah, it's it's beyond suspicious. >> Are you familiar with the RDX or the Cyclonite? >> Uh yeah. Yeah. >> Um so this comment here says I think Baron says Cyclonite sits in the soil a long time. So they didn't want anyone to test the soil either in my opinion and maybe that's why they p paved over it. Any thoughts on that? >> Yeah, the grass would have been impossible to clean. So like anybody could have gone and if they did enough testing, HLC could catch parts per billion. So there would be no way you would ever be able to clean it up. And there's enough unique chemicals in it that anybody with any good idea of what they were looking for, they would be able to find something of it and you know there's no explaining it. It's not something that should ever be there. So it would be a big red flag if not just outright proof of kind of foul play. >> So if the FBI went back right now and broke up the concrete, would they still be able to test for it or is it a half-life? Does it break down really fast or what would you expect? >> It would be there for quite a while. Yeah. >> Okay. Interesting. All right. All right. And then just this other question here kind of along the um the burn under I guess the right under the right nipple on the right side. Burn marks were on CK's body under the shirt. Baron has seen photos that he can't share. Um can you explain how this theory with the microphone and the PET and all that kind of stuff or the necklace could coincide with that? >> It could be bruising from hydrostatic wave. So, um I don't know if you've seen people that get shot like with plate carriers on or body armor, >> even though they don't get penetrated like the the energy waves through their body like and it'll leave just black areas everywhere on the edge where they and it looks like they've been burned. It looks like they've been electrocuted. Um >> and I think that's what we're seeing. Um the shape charge was right on the minimum size that you could run. So it wouldn't have a perfect jet. So it would leave a lot of like kind of [snorts] force to the sides that didn't penetrate that would cause, you know, some tissue damage also. And then you have the fragmentation from the device that could, you know, cause small lacerations and things like that. So I'll be willing to bet we could get higher resolution images of them carrying Charlie off. We would find more and more evidence of it. >> Yeah. Yeah, for anyone that disagrees with the theory, um that's fine, but make sure you're keeping it civil in the chat. Uh we have no no reason to be trying to put people down about their theory. I'm sure your theory if you told us and jumped on here right now, we'd probably be laughing you off the stage. So, let's be respectful, please. So, people are saying their jaws on the floor. Good job. Awesome job. You're national treasure. Let's >> Everybody wants to get protection for you. They're like, "What can we do to help you?" >> Protection fund like Candace or they want you to lead the FBI. >> No, thank you. [laughter] >> Okay, now this is a question. Would Charlie have singed hair? Would there have been like a strong smell from the the explosive? >> Um, no. It doesn't burn. It's not like a hot it's it's it's it's a it's from just the sheer velocity that so it's liquefying through velocity more than it's through, you know, heat or, you know, a brute force. So it would, like I said, it would be a very clean. Even someone that's used to handling and seeing, you know, bullet gunshot wounds, they would they wouldn't bat a eye looking at it and thinking that it was a rifle impact. And I think th
