Folks, as all of you are aware, one of the biggest political events of the last year, if not the past decade, was the brutal assassination of Charlie Kirk on September 10th at Utah Valley University during a public speaking engagement. And I mentioned in my initial coverage that that hit close to home for a variety of reasons because even though I disagreed with basically everything that Charlie Kirk stood for, as a content creator and as somebody who was in political commentary, I recognized that this put all of us in danger. But the other thing that I mentioned at the time and many of you commented about who followed the event, the tragedy, uh, from start to finish, noted that a good friend of mine was in attendance when Kirk was assassinated, who's actually the last person that Charlie Kirk ever spoke to, ever debated, and that's my friend Staxiums, Hunter Kak, who is actually joining me here. We were going to try to do this a couple of weeks ago, but he has a lot going on. I'm sure he's going to let us know how he has been since the event itself. Here he is on screen. Hunter, how are you, buddy? >> I'm doing great. Yeah. Um, for your audience who doesn't know, me and um, me and Josiah go way back. We used to do Tik Tok debates back when he was a Tik Tok debater. That was like his first thing before he did YouTube. Uh, and I used to joke around that I had way more followers than him. And uh, now he's he's wildly overshot me. >> Not not on TikTok, though. And that's really what counts, right? I mean like that's sure I have you know I have a few on YouTube but you still blow me way out of the water on TikTok. So I mean that's that's >> you you have the advantage. I mean like yeah I mean >> you know he always lowb broed me. I think you Jenzers would say that like he just lowb broed me all the time. He was like a what's it like having less than 35,000 Tik Tok followers? What where are you at now? Because I'm not on Tik Tok as you know. >> I don't know. Um 60 or I don't know. >> You have 60 followers? >> Yeah, 60 followers. I have 60. How many do you have? A few million. >> I No. No. I I really don't. So like I haven't been on TikTok. Like when I cut Tik Tok out to do YouTube full-time, I didn't just mean as a content creator. I mean as a viewer as well. Like I just >> it's still on my phone, but like I can't tell you the last time I actually pulled up the app. So >> yeah. Well, if you want to look up videos on linguistics or language or philosophy or politics or math, those are sort of the things that I talk about on TikTok. So, you should follow me there, I guess. >> I thought you were doing politics and not like cures for insomnia. Like, wait, wait, what's this? Like cures for insomnia. Yeah. >> Well, I'm so I am I'm getting a dual degree at UVU right now. I'm I'm basically done with my philosophy degree, which is analytic philosophy, so it's a lot of um conversations of logic and like philosophy of language and things like that. And I'm also getting my math degree. So, I mean, a lot of my videos are >> ladies then, huh? [laughter] >> I would say that I'm making a bunch of I'm going to be making a bunch of money, but I'm going into like teaching math in high school, so like probably not. >> Um, I'm curious. >> Yeah, I usually put a political spin on on it. Like, I math like >> you're politicizing math. >> Holy [ __ ] The communists and the socialists. Here they are with their their socialist math. They're changing the math. How do you How do you politicize math? Um, well, the the the question that I was going to ask uh Charlie was about uh the question I was going to ask Charlie about was um basically he was saying that trans people are over represented in terms of mass shootings. Um and my point is that they they clearly are not. And I did a little bit of a statistical analysis. I made a video about it. >> Well, let's then let's do this let's do this like the the logical and sequential way. And see and folks again for those of you who are not familiar because this again goes way back. This is how it is between Hunter and I all the time where we constantly just like talk [ __ ] and roast each other and interrupt each other and all that stuff. So, we're going to try to keep it >> cogent and treat it with the semnity it deserves. So, let's start with this. >> Yeah. >> September's 10th. Okay. Um, I didn't know you were going to be at UVU. I knew that you were part of the Unfuck America tour which was following Charlie Kirk. So again, knowing that we're not going to be talking about this for 3 hours, do you want to briefly recap what you were doing at UVU that day other than being a student? Well, yeah. I so I am a student at UVU, but I also believe a lot in debate and conversations and um specifically the DOJ recently just came out with an ad a piece of I forget exactly what what they put out, but it was essentially saying that they wanted to start stripping gun rights away from transameans because they were um they were over represented in terms of mass shootings. So, I asked Charlie about that. So as part of but you were part of the unfuck America tour, right? Like you guys is this the first time that you had engaged with Charlie? >> Not directly. I went to one of his events in um Tampa in Tampa. We um he had the big he had a big SAS event. It was the student action summit. There was a ton of people there. Um ton of different content creators. Uh, you know, Tucker Carlson, um, Russell Brandt, um, >> the comedian. >> Yeah, comedian. >> Not that funny these days. Yeah, >> exactly. Just a bunch of big conservative uh names. Um, and I went there and I basically just uh I did a little bit of a um I put on a Trump hat and I asked a bunch of the followers questions. >> You brought it from home? >> Yeah, [laughter] I picked it up from the event. They were just they they just had a ton of them. But um but yeah, now it's at home, so now I just bring it around everywhere. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, again, I I got to I got to say this. This is something I've roasted Hunter about for years. Uh when Hunter and I first met and we became friends, he revealed to me and I busted his balls about it ever since that he was a Jill Stein voter in 2016. So, he has contributed >> something I want to clarify every time. I regret that action. And also, I was not in a swing state. I was in Utah. I voted in Utah. to like get over it a little bit. Like not not that it's the best. >> No, not get over it. What are you talking about? I mean like I just there's so many things to indict your character for and that's like number two on the list. I mean >> I regret voting for Hillary Clinton. I would have I would vote for Hillary Clinton today if I if I could. >> Little too late now, buddy. But thank you. Appreciate it. It's fine. >> And I voted for Kamla. You know I >> That's good. You're on the path to redemption. You're on the path to redemption. Okay. But get to get back to us. So, >> so you as part of the Unfuck America tour, which is this group that that basically would engage and try to debate Kirk and Kirk supporters throughout his various tours, this was your first chance to actually speak to the man himself. >> Yeah. I'm sorry. >> No, I was just going to say, so go ahead. >> Yeah. So, I mean, Char at the very at the beginning of the event, a lot of his rhetoric is, "Hey, bring I think he said this verbatim, bring the best libs that Utah has to offer." And I think that very often it was just a bunch of college students who were doing like, you know, he took a Polyai class one time and wanted to go talk to Charlie about it and he made them look like idiots mostly because they were a little bit they were a little bit of idiots and I I wanted to challenge him on it. I think that he cared about debate and I care about debate and that's one of the very very very few things that we have in common. >> So So when he was asking for the best libs that Utah has to offer, was were they like running short that day or how did you get drafted? How did you get brought up to the microphone? >> Well, I was I was not I was pretty far back in line. I was like 10 or 10th or 15th in line. Like some people had been camping out since like I want to say like seven in the morning or something like that. But they were asking down the line like, "What questions do you want to ask Charlie?" And they're like, "How does it feel to be the coolest conservative of all time?" And then like, you know, it's like, "Uh, what do you want, Kobe or LeBron? Like, what do you think is better?" And then they got to me and I'm like, I want to talk about I don't I don't know if I care or know, >> you just you don't have you don't have room right now for basketball anyway, even though you are you are freakishly tall and you could play basketball. Did you play? >> Everyone says that. I'm 6 I'm 6'3, but um I just like I've never I don't know how to dribble or anything else. So, it's you know that's a that's one of the big prerequisites of playing basketball. I think it's not just >> dribbling. My understanding is this. Dribbling is like an essential core like talent. >> I think so. I think it's a core. >> Don't quote me on it. Yeah. I don't know much about basketball, but I do. >> So, then you told them you had the question about >> I started Yeah. And I I was I also was expecting Charlie to ask, you know, what is a woman? Because he always pivots conversations about um transgender issues to that question, which I feel like I had a good answer to and I had a good response to and I wanted to challenge him on his um bullishness. I guess I want to say >> that reminds me again as a kind of a sidebar, but relevant to your content. Um because you're Hunter is on Tik Tok still, right? You've not you're still doing putting on Tik Tok stuff. I've tried to get you on YouTube for years. you've dug your heels in. You have a really good video essay on your channel called is a hot dog a sandwich or a hot dog is a sandwich, right? >> Is a hot dog a sandwich? >> Is a hot dog a sandwich? So, it's posed in the form of a question and it and it kind of addresses some of that. Well, like didn't you create that about the time that the whole what is a woman question was >> this was I want to say like two three years ago that I made this. Um we can I we should put a link to the to the video. It's a good video. I stand by >> I agree. I for your benefit I will >> and I also make fun of Josiah in in it because he had a there's a little there's a little aside where I make fun of Josiah's names because that's an ongoing bit that we have is I I he used to go by Rubinate forever ago but it didn't make sense because the one you're supposed to pronounce is the letter it represents but the eight you're supposed to pronounce it it doesn't make fun of his name. You were the one who >> No, I know. I kept calling him I kept calling rum one and an eight and then that that started other people started calling you that and then you had to pivot because you're like this is a stupid name. So I make fun of his name in that video too. Um but yeah the the video is essentially um it's a lot about categories like it's a it's a I'm going to be too I don't know if I want to be too analytically. >> No and again because we got to be mindful of time and this is the problem between us. You and I could keep yapping about this for 2 hours, but anyway, you have a video you have a really good video essay which addresses much of this. So, it's interesting how 3 years later, you know, you're still able [clears throat] I don't want to say to double dip, but you're still drawing on a lot of the things that were created in that video in this debate with Char. >> Yeah. And I'm I'm I mean, I'm currently writing my capstone on philosophy of language of, you know, categories because I find that very interesting and I make videos very constantly about that. Um, so as a woman, did he ever end up asking what a woman is? >> No, we didn't get to it. No, we I mean, we were only a minute into our conversation, I want to say. >> So, we weren't very long. >> So, they previewed you had to preview your question with like his his people in the line. >> Yeah. Turning Point staff. >> And then they put you up in the front or >> Yeah, they they were like I at one point one of the girls was like, "Oh, you're perfect." And then like pushed me to second. So, I I was second in line. >> Okay. So then you step up to the microphone and um again I I don't know obviously which again we'll get to so much of the the footage of the shooting itself the actual shot was dispersed all over the internet. Incredibly traumatic, incredibly ugly, incredibly visceral. I don't know how much footage has been released of you starting to talk to him. >> Yeah. >> And and basically the the preceding 60 seconds. So walk me through it. You step up to the mic. Yeah, I've got that I've actually got that video cuz I mean my wife was standing 20 30 feet away recording me for a TikTok video that I was going to put out later about the conversation. But yeah, the um I basically talked about the DOJ decision and I said, "Do you stand by this?" And he he said, "Yes, like that's I absolutely stand by that." Um and I said, "Do you know how many trans shooters there have been?" He said, "Too many." And I said, "Okay, well there have been about four or five. Do you know how many shootings in America there have been over the last 10 years?" Um and then he said counting or not counting gang violence and then got shot. >> So I I'm curious. Um I remember that day so well because um I was actually not able to do any sort of content initially because I was getting the studio here soundproof. And so I was downstairs while the guy was, you know, hanging all this [ __ ] meticulously and my phone goes off like a bunch of text messages. I remember Hutch was like, "Fuck." And so I just I I pulled up Twitter and pictures were everywhere and you know, Charlie Kirk was shot. Charlie Kirk was shot and I clicked on what I thought was a picture. It was one of the close-up videos. Awful. >> It's traumatic. >> And I can't remember I think you cuz we're in we not only have a text thread, but we're in a group thread with some other people. And you texted or said something and and >> I was actually trying to pay the contractor at the time while also keeping track of the news. I kept getting texts from you that I was swiping up. I'm like, "Honey, shut the [ __ ] up. Shut it off." >> Just And also, just to be clear to the to the to the audience, um, the news I think took a little bit to catch on. So, this was like hours after it actually happened. Like, I I wasn't just like, "Let me text Josiah first thing." >> I like to think that in an emergency, that would be your first instinct, right? You know, like, you know what? But we'll get to what I I because we I I I know I'm curious and I know everyone else is going to be curious like what happened in the moment. But just from the outsers's perspective. Um when I finally went back and looked at the text as soon as I got him paying the contractor, I I saw and I think I even said something, "Wait, Hunter, are you there?" And you were like, "I'm the guy he was talking to." And I remember dropping the phone because it was it was stunning >> like and because of course I again I had no idea. Obviously, I know you live in in Utah, so that that but it just never occurred to me. >> Walk me through what like what happened to the extent that you even remember. Do you even remember it? >> Yeah. No, very very very very vis viscerally. Um, I I mean it's not just that it was a it was a um it was a very harrowing experience, but it's also that I revisit it so often over the last month and a half that like I I do think that I've got [clears throat] like I know pretty much every detail. Um but yeah, what are you interested in knowing? >> Well, I mean was there cuz I I think in the video, you know, you put your your hand to your face and whatever. I mean, was it just was it shock? Was it pure terror? I mean, I've never been in a situation like that and hopefully I never will be. You know, you mentioned that your wife um good friend of mine as well in in attendance with you. What the hell went through your mind? >> Yeah. Um I mean I the first thing was it was actually it was it was kind of interesting because a friend of mine was was talking about people who just go to UV because I I I go to the school. It's not just like I was visiting there um a lot. It's a very different experience from the people in the school and my experience because mine was this is a political assassination and as darkly as dark as this might sound like I I did I don't know if I ever really felt like I was in danger because I was like okay well if there's a shooter who's trying to kill conservatives I'm the I'm the I'm maybe the safest person on campus. But it was still compounded with also the harrowing thing that I just saw in front of me. So I I dropped to the ground. There was a whole bunch of people in line next to me that I that I've been talking to for like an hour and a half at this point. So um we all dropped to the ground. We look at each other. We all make sure we're okay. The guy behind me was was very kind and and like walked with me. Made sure I was okay. I made sure he was okay. Um um uh he's still got my hat by the way. They were passing out MAGA hats and I I grabbed onto one but I didn't want to wear it in to the to the question. So I I had him hold on to it and then the shooting happened so I never got that back. So I need I need that MAGA hat back. Um but the um yeah, we were we dispersed. Um, and then I the the problem was my wife was recording the conversation, but she was using my phone because my phone's better. I bought like a better phone for like recording content and things like that, but I put it on do not. >> So, she gave your wife a hand-me-down phone. Jesus, man. >> No, she gave me Yeah. No, no, no. I got the I got the nice phone. She kept the hand-me-down phone and I go, "Okay, for right now, you can use it. >> I'm going to have But only right now. You better get God. You're such a misogynist, man. You're a terrible. I'm sorry. And again, I should I should say to everybody too, this is one of the things that he and I bond over is we have a very wide sense of humor. It's a coping mechanism for us both. So, we'll crack jokes and stuff like that. But anyway, go ahead. >> Yeah. Um, uh, yeah, I put it on do not disturb because I didn't want like a phone call to go through while I was recording it. And then as soon as it happened, I kept calling her like like five or six times and she didn't pick up. And it was pretty upsetting. And I remember at one at one point I was looking for her and I went back to like near the crime scene and then like a police officer was standing there. I'm like I don't know where my wife is. And he goes this isn't about you buddy. And I'm like you know what fair like fair enough actually that's so I I walked back and I we eventually reconnected but it took like 20 minutes or so to like find us in the crowd find ourselves in the crowd. It's it's fascinating to me that you had the discernment of mind in the moment to recognize that it wasn't like a mass shooting. It was precise. It was targeted. >> You know that you you were like you were almost able to do the math, pun intended, like, okay, even though I'm standing here in front of him, >> he was clearly the target. I'm presumably not. It's not like it was indiscriminate. But when you couldn't find your wife, like I mean what were you just terrified the whole time or you're like no like I I'm shocked but like I'm not in danger and neither is she is she? >> Yeah. I mean this is something that I've been talking a lot. Um UVU gave me gave us gave me quite a bit of free therapy. So shout out to UVU. But I I recently talked about this with my therapist. There was this um quote that I love that Hank Green talked about. I I don't know if you guys know Hank Green, but he's like a YouTuber. Um, and he he got cancer maybe about a year or two ago. Um, and he talked about the initial shock of getting that cancer. And the first realization that he had was like, I'm still me. You know, he looked down at himself and he's like, I'm I you would think that this would just overtake me and I wouldn't be able to like I would be able to to not be myself. But um yeah, like during that incident, I I don't think I think I was still cogent enough to to know what was happening. And I wasn't I think I was freaked out to find my wife, but also like I did know in the back of my head like that's not the mo like well I'll find her like she'll she'll be okay and I'll be okay. And this this is for sure gonna be an incident that we're going to remember for the rest of our lives, but um we're gonna be okay. >> Talk to me a bit about the aftermath of it. I mean, I know everyone was checking in on you. I was I was everybody >> I called you for like half an hour that day or so. I don't remember how long it was, but yeah, you were one of the people I called that day. >> Um >> I remember you saying it was the most important phone call you made [laughter] of the day. I think that was an exact your >> exact and then you're like, "Can I do an interview right now?" And I ignored you for 6 weeks. >> No. Well, that's not fair. I texted you first and said, "Okay, do you want the interview? We can do it here. Do you want to say anything on the record?" You kept saying, "No comment. Speak to my agent." But no, in in all seriousness in all seriousness, cuz I remember like you, >> you know, I kept checking in with the misses on this just to see how you were doing. Like, I know this [ __ ] you up and I'm curious like, talk to me about the aftermath. >> Yeah. >> Over the past, it's been six weeks. Like it. >> Yeah. The biggest thing the biggest thing by far is the conspiracy theorists. Like they have been incessant and like there was there was for sure like the first two weeks of dealing with police and dealing with the FBI and that was very scary to deal with. Not I they were they were very professional and I I really like it and honestly as soon as the interview started happening I I recognized immediately that they didn't treat me like a suspect like I wasn't veranderized or anything but um the I mean just like I had to get an attorney because I wasn't sure if I was going to be a a suspect or something. And my my attorney was kind of freaking me out. He's like here's all the possibilities. Like here's all here's what we got to worry about. Um, I'm going to I'm going to make an interview with the FBI to make sure that, you know, we were able to to put forward. That was scary. >> Well, I didn't know. Are you like is are you conducting this interview from Guantanamo right now or something? Are you in a cell somewhere? >> No. The So, they no one reached out to me. I talked to campus police maybe 20 half an hour after it happened. Um, they took some notes. I'm like, I was that person. Here's my information. Ask me anything that you need. And they're like, we'll get back to you. And then we sent uh Shelby sent my wife sent uh me, sorry, sent campus police all the videos. And then I was like, I think I need to talk to the FBI because the governor, okay, the governor got asked a question maybe the day the next day saying, and one of the interviewers was like, what about that guy who was asking the question? Has he been been apprehended yet? And the governor was like, we don't know who that is. And I'm like, I'll tell you. It was me. I will tell you right away. So, I was like, I got to find an attorney. I got to go to the FBI. Apparently, that information got lost. I don't know what happened to it, but like I already talked to people, but you I guess I need to talk to more people. So, my attorney uh reached out to the FBI and then we did like a like a 20 minute interview and it was a lot like they didn't pull me. It was just like a video conference, but that was all happening while my daughter was in the NICU. So, like I I literally was in the hospital asking questions and then my attorneys like the FBI were like setting up an appointment right now. It's happening in like 20 minutes. And I was like, "Fuck, dude." And I did it in the parking lot of the hospital. Very stressful time. Very stressful time. >> Yeah. I mean, man, you had a lot going on period at that time. Um there's just there's no doubt about it. And then obviously this happens. Um did you get um did you hear from or speak to like >> people are going to wonder like Cash Patel given how close he was FBI director? He was close with Charlie Kirk, Governor Cox, nothing like that. It was it was treated pretty professionally at the at the lower level. >> Yeah, the FBI essentially wanted to know where I was located right before the incident and then right after. Um, but they already had access to all the cameras at the school so they could verify all my answers. Um, but yeah. Did you said the conspiracy theories afterwards because obviously you're a liberal debating Charlie Kirk. >> You're asking a question about gun violence. >> There have been threats. >> Yeah, for sure. I mean, like it's hard to take the there's kind of two two parts of it. The first is just like people in my comment section saying, you know, I know you did it. I'm going to turn you into the FBI or whatever. And I'm like, that's fine. like I don't care about that. Like yeah, I've already been talking to the I've been cooperating with them more than you have. So like that means nothing to me. But the second part is like um I don't know how honestly they even found my house but like um I mean reporters found my house initially like the New York Times went >> Jesus. Okay. >> No, no, no. But like kind of >> No, no, no. But like the New So the New York Times knocked on my door like two hours after the incident occurred. Um, no, maybe not that quick. Very quick that day for sure. Um, and I was I was freaked out that they like had my address and like knew my name and like that was just like available information that I don't know how they found. Um, >> that's because I texted them. >> Yeah, exactly. [laughter] But there were like I would like >> I would I mean I got approached like there were like 20 knocks on my door from reporters and like one time there was like a there was a weird I don't know. I don't want to say he was like there to like find out what was going on, but like he really didn't act like a reporter and like I I was like who are like what are you doing here? And he I kind of like scared him off and I was like what the [ __ ] is that guy doing? Anyway, um so that really freaked me out. Like that I'm I'm just like not one to be paranoid or anxious and that like that for the next week. I was like I was like let's barricade the doors. We got to like I don't know. Really freak out. >> You've actually not left the house in six weeks. You don't know what the outside is like. >> Yeah. I mean I dude I can't I can't imagine. Um I I am curious. You know you're still putting out content. You know you're raising kids. You're married. You're trying to You have a multiaceted life with all sorts of like competing demands. >> In terms of your political advocacy, your political commentary, your political content. >> Was there ever a moment where you're like, "Fuck this. I'm I'm out. I'm just going to go live a normal life." >> Yeah. Well, I only recently started making videos again like two days [snorts] ago, I want to say like um I felt like because I had made a video like I made a video genuinely like here's the problem with what Charlie's saying. I'm gonna go on on uh campus to talk to him. And also, I said in that video, do you hate Charlie Kirk? I know I do. Like, I said that and that hit probably like 500,000 views on TikTok, like before the event occurred. So, like I knew as soon as this happened, I can't hide from this because a narrative will quickly be spun around this. So, even though I was pretty unwilling or like I kind of wanted to process this with my family, but I kind of knew that I needed to make statements and do interviews and and make content. But like after it was necessary, like after like four or five days, I'm like, I'm I kind of just need to process this all and and sit back, focus on my family, focus on school and like yeah, school goes on and like it's weird after an event like this. Um yeah. Yeah. Again, I I can't imagine I I as you know, obviously I say this as your friend, but also somebody who respects your work. I think it's good that you've stayed in the space. I think the space is made better by your content because you have a unique perspective on it. You bring a level of geekery that the rest of us who are obviously jocks by comparison. Uh so, you know, you you give a little >> You think you're not a nerd. >> You give a level of geek geek credibility that >> just wait till this guy starts ranting about Star Wars. >> We'll get to that. Okay. We're we're going in order of most important topics. We will obviously have to conclude with Star Wars. Um, but I am glad that you have persisted in this and uh, >> you know, you continue to put out content because again, it's a unique level of content. We'll link to uh, to Hunter's YouTube channel and everything and probably his TikTok as well. I mean, it's just definitely worth your time. >> As far as Charlie, the Charlie Kirk of it all, um, I'm curious what you feel about this. My my position on this has been from the beginning. >> Um, again, I think what happened was really traumatic. like it was viscerally like it I wasn't there. It impacted me a fraction to the extent it impacted you and it impacted me quite a bit. >> Um I condemn political violence against Charlie Kirk against anybody. Um I think it has put everybody who engages in political commentary on the left and the right in danger. I think in a constitutional democratic republic, you have all sorts of means to express your displeasure with somebody, but violence is not one of them. >> And yet I refuse to sanitize or launder what he stood for. Uh, I think that, you know, I I have friends who are and and family members who really love Charlie Kirk and respect him, but I, you know, personally, I think he was a hypocrite. I don't think he was as principled as he said he was. I I think that a lot of his advocacy did a lot of damage to this country. I think these two things can simultaneously exist that you can condemn violence against this person and not whitewash them. >> Where do you fall on it? Where do you fall on now? You know, having had, you know, been literally so close, you were the last person on earth he talked to. How do you feel? I mean, it's a hard question and it's a it's a strange amount of responsibility that I feel because I on the one hand I need to decry what occurred. [clears throat] Not just because it's awful, but also because copycats occur, you know, like we I think as a community need to get together and say this is unacceptable. Um, I also do respect Charlie for a very few amount of things. The first is his political organization skills were topnotch. He organized the Republican party um and the media landscape to warp around the Republican party in a way that the left has not been able to replicate ever. Um so I do respect him for that and in a lot of ways that's something that I really cared about is you know aligning ourselves more politically and not just lambasting every you know left-wing politician that we might not like. Um because Charlie Look, he also he also believed in in um the marketplace of ideas, you know, and I I do think that that's maybe a bit of a flawed idea, but on its whole, I think that conversation and debate are endlessly important and that's the only way in a democracy that we can ever change anything is by changing other people's ideas and changing other people's minds and talking about them and understanding them and empathizing with them. And that's something that I've made content for about a long time. I live in Utah and I talk a lot about how to have conversations with conservatives. Um, but on the other hand, I went to Charlie because I because he was advocating for stripping a constitutional right away from a displaced minority, a disenfranchised minority. And that I have to hold those two together. And um and that's difficult. Like I understand that's difficult and some people aren't able to do it and that's and that's frustrating that they're not able to do that. Um but I I think we need to be better. I think we need to recognize that I don't know if I want to call him a hero. I don't know if I want to call him someone that I that I he's still a person, I guess, is something that I've that I've said a bunch of times is, you know, that's a and as as as hard as that was for me, very often what I've needed to do over the last month is recognize that he had a family um who cared about him who were impacted far heavier than I will be. like regardless of how close I was to Charlie emotionally his children were far closer to him and also will be impacted much greater and also don't have the mental capabilities to understand or comprehend or be able to handle what happened nearly as well as I can and I'm and my heart goes out to those kids and it I I didn't even know he had kids I I found but that was the first thing that was the first thing I looked up is I went into the car like the the the cars were packed around because the the entire university it was the middle of the day on a Wednesday like the entire university flooded out and we were just jam-packed in cars and I wasn't driving and like that was the first thing I look up is like who do you who what's his family like and he's got two kids and that really said a lot to me. I mean, I have two kids and um in some way, in a lot of ways, I'm nothing like Charlie, but damn, I'm a I'm a I'm a political advocate. I care about policy. I care about debate. I care about conversation. And in in some ways, we're very similar. >> Yeah. No doubt. I mean, there are some there are some like even just superficially similarities. You guys were similar height, married with two kids. Um, you both didn't want Hillary Clinton to win the 2016 election. [laughter] Uh, you're both obviously interested in politics. You clearly preferred Trump to win in 2016 compared to to anybody else. Um, >> but no, look, man, I um I can't imagine having gone through what you went through. And I I think it's incredibly important that >> you continue to stay in the space as you have to continue to endure and make your voice known because you do you just genuinely have a unique voice in the space. I'm looking forward to see what comes of you in the future with respect to your commentary. And speaking of, is there anything that people can expect? Are you working on something? Because you're you're a you're an ideas guy, you know, you got some Yeah. concept like what >> a lot of >> I mean, I've scrapped a lot of ideas over the last month and really had to whatever. I'm I'm I just got back to making videos. So, if you follow me on Tik Tok, I'm finally talking about linguistics again, which is my heart and soul, my love of the game. Um, is in is in there. Um, but it's it's politically oriented. I I talk about I talk about fallacies. I talk about logic. I talk about debate. Um, and the way to communicate with other people um and how language can be >> analyzed in that method. And I break it down in a more um friendly way than I think Josiah is putting it here. I don't think I'm I don't think I'm a professor lecturing at Harvard. Like >> you are you are always always entertaining. Just you've got you write the the best scripts. You got a great sense of humor. I I definitely people should check out your stuff. And then obviously we need to close on the most important question which is >> god damn it rise of >> over the past six weeks. Have you been given cause to revisit your opinion on the best of the Star Wars sequels? The rise of Skywalker. >> Do you do this off? Because I watch a decent amount of your videos and you don't yap about how god awful Rise of Skywalker is ever. Do you guys know his opinion? He thinks Rise of Skywalker is the best of the sequels and like a top five Star Wars movie. Look at this man. [laughter] I'm trying to think. I don't know if it's I'm just trying to think. >> I think it's fifth. >> I think it's So there's Empire Empire. There's Empire: A New Hope. Revenge of the Sith. >> Mhm. >> The last It is. It is top five, actually. >> That's so It is. It is top five. >> So gross. >> Why? No. Listen to me. Okay. >> It's literally the worst. It's literally bottom. And it's >> We talked about this. You conceded. You conceded The Force Awakens was the worst because >> I've conceded I've conceded that that Seventh is much worse. You You convinced me that it's basically trash. And I I agree with that. But also, it's like, you know, that scene in Shark Tale where it's like there's whale poop and there's and then there's you. There's Force Awakens and then there's Rise of Skywalker. Like >> I've not seen Shark Tail because I'm not a 10year-old child. I I've not seen this. I'm sorry. >> I was 10 years old when I watched it. That's Yeah, that's a >> I don't think so. I think I think I think your wife texted me and said you were watching it two days ago and now you watch it with my kids. >> No, [ __ ] you. I see I ran today. You weren't with the kids. No, listen to me. All I will say is this. Two words. Two words. Mcderan Mcder. >> Exactly. It's so rise of Skywalk. >> You only have one argument. It's so It's like the least unfunny. It's like McGuffin after McGuffin. It's just it's hamfisted and the com the comedy is the worst in any Star Wars movie. But >> you know if I had a dagger if I had like the the the Sith dagger that Ochi had when they were trying to find the remember the sex dance thing came out. >> Remember the wayfinder thing? >> The wayfinder thing, right? If I had one, it would be I know this movie better than you. >> It would be used to detect [ __ ] and it would always point at you. I would pull it out and it would always be pointing. >> My Star Wars hottake. My Star Wars hottake. Phantom Menace is a top five Star Wars movie. That movie is so good. That movie is It's also like political. Like there's like the trade federations and the way that Naboo functions as like a pseudo democracy but also like a a strange monarchy and the way that it interacts with like new Gunray and the rest of the Federation. >> Lowkey very interesting and also just a solid movie. Like Racing isn't that bad. is the problem is they over complicated it because what they should have done is they should have made it you know where Supreme Chancellor Palpatine goes I'm going to tear off the Trade Federation >> 45% 45% >> the Jedi >> would that be easier for your PE brain you go you go that's the bad guy that's >> what's sad what's sad is it's it is amazing to look at American politics and recognize that all the great villains of fiction were just going about seizing power way too convolutedly. I mean, why did >> I do think I do think something that fiction has really made me like I've had to reanalyze fiction and recognize that the villains should often be way dumber than they often are like >> and then they can lead the Republican party to do terms. [laughter] >> It's like God I mean what's the point? >> Like yeah like the idea that like it's it's a really like Django Unchained like >> Yeah, it's a really solid scene in Jango Unchained. I actually haven't seen it. I've just seen an analysis on [laughter] Tik Tok of the >> You've not seen You're too busy watching. Sorry. You How could you fit that in between between reruns of Shark Tail and the Phantom Django Unchained? >> Oh my god. >> It's like the races are idiots. Like they're like putting on the the like KKK hoods and like they can't they can't figure out what's [laughter] they're like having the dumbest monologues >> and that's so fascinating to me is like is like no racists are idiots. Like the idea that like this is the way that we should separate the world and like how do you even determine what race is what? It's like it is funny how stupid they are. And that's >> that's what the Trump administration really I didn't put of it that they didn't think about that way. They're like the uh the amassed KKK at the beginning of Django Unchained except they they have the nuclear football. Okay. Very last question. 2028 >> Mhm. Are you planning on voting for Jill Stein again? >> She's gonna crawl out of the woodwork like she always does. >> Dude, she does. Like she hibernates. >> She hibernates. She's a [ __ ] groundhog. >> If [laughter] she pokes her head up. If she sees her shadow, it's four more years of Trump. >> I don't I don't I don't think she's going to poke her head out because uh Medie Hassan will be ready to do another interview. But did you ever watch that interview he did? Like that was >> so good. She's a fraudster for sure. Um like what her whole grift is vote for me. I don't know why either. Like >> vote actually her her thing is vote for me. It's like an upward inflection question mark thing. Vote for me. >> Look Hunter I could um remember when this was only supposed to be 15 minutes. Do you remember this? I'm just going to drop it on the channel. Totally. >> I have school by the way. Like I have a class going on right now. I'm getting my test back. I got to know how >> you were playing Sudoku the entire time of this [ __ ] No. During during [ __ ] I saw your eyes cut like >> you were like you were like let me tell you about the trauma that I saw >> and it's not normal sedoku by the way. Okay, we do killer. We do renban. >> Would you say it's like counted >> German whisper? >> That was a Count Dooku pun. That was I tried to bring it back to Star Wars. >> Kind of bad. Not really that good. >> All right, listen again. Where can people find you? >> Uh Tik Tok, YouTube, Instagram, Twitter. >> Staxiums. >> Staxiums. >> Thank you. Thank you for just pointing out the platforms but not actually like, yeah, you know, you can find me on planet Earth, you know, like Just go [laughter] water on Twitter. Like your followers are like I'll find him eventually. >> Refresh the page. [laughter] >> Yeah, I'm on YouTube. Thank you. That's good. >> You're [laughter] nailing You're nailing it, man. >> 20th Mr. Beast video. It's like I'll find this guy sometime. >> You're nailing it, man. All right, buddy. Well, listen. I appreciate you and um again, be please be sure to check out Hunter on and we'll include all his links and everything, but thank you so much, buddy. And I'm sure we'll be talking. >> Absolutely. I appreciate you just
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