Joe Rogan Experience #2222 - John Fetterman

Joe Rogan podcast check it out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day all right man we rollan what's happening nice to meet you oh hey man it's so it's awesome to be here man really yeah like I got to say hi to my my son is just so thrilled he's like you know he's 15 and he literally freaked out D like oh my God it all and all of his friends are going to definitely be watching too yeah what's his name Carl with a K and I I met a I met a Carl in the lobby but uh it's a c but uh that's a not a human a non-human Carl yeah well what's up human Carl yeah um so first of all are you the only guy that figured out that you don't have to wear suits when you're a senator uh yeah no it's it's uh I'm sorry what was that say I said are you the only guy that figured out that you don't have to wear suits as a senator oh okay yeah no I well I I know it might it seems strange but it's like uh I mean I'm a I'm a I'm a bigger guy and and I don't really can't afford custom anyway and I hate I'm claustrophobic and I hate them being in that kind of and uh I've always dressed like like and you know and and I know and and then that whole thing kind of got away uh of hus um people assumed that there was a dress code issue there yeah and I'm like no I wasn't behind that behind that but of course everybody pointed at the at the dude that dresses like a slob and and and then the whole the whole nation just had like a meltdown like oh my God the Senate's on fire because uh I dress like a slob uh but but my life is just much better in DC that unless that I'm going to be on the floor that I'm not going to be you're never going to see me in a suit and uh I think that's a more authentic kind of way that I live and I don't judge anybody on how they dress or those things uh I I just dress this way and there's also practical issues as well too like I have I have Chopstick legs and I have no ass and I can't keep pants up and and hoodies and hoodies it's like I don't have to iron that you know so it it's just like easy it's comfort and it's like I just feel like that's I mean and if somebody judge me and people have said that uh but it's like I'd rather have somebody know and I I promise you a lot of people and dudes especially in Western Pennsylvania love to wear suits all year I mean uh excuse me shorts all year uh and dressed like that but to me it's about comfort and practical well I mean it makes sense the the whole dress code thing of wearing suits and you're you're more serious because you have certain clothing on it seems pretty silly sorry what's that are you so let's let's tell everybody what's going on with your iPad so because you had a stroke you have difficulty do you have difficulty hearing or well no I can hear just I can hear just perfectly right now uh and uh but uh there's just the one kind of a lingering issue there's a lingering issue um and sometimes I lose just a couple steps on time and then now after that that's the only thing and thankfully the stroke never touched my intellect things uh uh but the but the stroke nearly killed me and again I don't uh but I use captioning in situations just like this uh in interviews that's so that's why I can I can really make sure exactly what's being said uh then I can able just participate if somebody wears the glasses it doesn't mean that they're illiterate it just means they just that's a tool that allows them to participate or drive or those things and it's that same thing and a lot of people across America use captioning to watch movies and TV and that's really no different than that so it doesn't affect your intellect but it does affect your hearing is that what's going on uh no I I can hear and I can listen to music the difference with music for example is is that as long as there's muscle memory I I can I can remember all those kinds of music things but it seems unlikely at this point that it's uh they not going to be any kind of new new favorites emerging like that because so you essentially only can listen to the same old music forever yeah no it's yeah it's yeah I I mean uh all of the all the classics like you know Metallica Motorhead motohead uh the cult all those kinds of things like I haven't lost any of you know the deaf DEA LEP and those things well and I I saw the the uh the record of whiter excuse me White Snake um but all those things yeah I know I mean I mean I I think we're both in the 50s right and you know we grew up with with the with the crew and and all those kinds of things so um some some people might Judge Me based on my my taste on music but I mean uh that's that's kind of where it's listen people are going to judge you no matter what you're a big giant guy wears hoodies and you're a senator like so like no matter what they're going to judge you who cares but I'm just trying to like understand like what what is going on with the captioning because you you can hear but so there's some sort of a disconnect between hearing and understanding like what is it yeah I wouldn't say it's necessarily disconnect it's just it's it's just about being precise on that just to make sure that so if you know like for an interview just to make make sure those things uh so it's really just about captioning uh just really it's just a tool difference I mean for this this is like my my eyes uh in the sense for glasses that just understand so it just gives you a little bit more Precision in what you're saying yeah and understanding what what was it like running for Senator right after recovering from a stroke that had to be a nightmare yeah I I don't recommend that I I I I don't recommend that cuz you seem to have recovered quite a bit since then oh yeah no during that time you were really struggling and oh sure AB absolutely like uh it was uh it was a it was a rough uh conversation after that um uh they they brought me into the hospital and then I I went under and then I I woke up uh and they said they uh they said hey we got it we got it we got the clot the the clot that that essentially just but killed me and I'm like oh that's good uh and then just kind of went back under and uh at that point I had no idea where we were at on those things uh and then I had um the next morning I woke up and then they uh a doctor came on and he had kind of a a grim kind of a look on his face and things and my dad was there sitting next to me at the bed and I was like well hey Doc I mean what's uh what things what do you think what do you like uh and he's like well um you know your your your heart is functioning at an incredibly low kinds of percentage um and uh and I'm like well um uh well what do you what do you think and and he was like well uh you know I mean there's some ISS issues and I'm like well are we talking you know may a year a year kind of thing and and like uh and I'm like um and this is all while you were running for Senate uh yeah yeah this was this was after this was after this was after this was uh 3 days before the primary oh my God yeah I was on my I was on my way to an event and and my wife Jazelle she she's like you're you're having a stroke because uh they had that classic kinds of uh where you know half of my face I didn't know that but it kind of just you just slumped yeah and and and then they hotlin me over to the hospital and I wouldn't I wouldn't have survived if we were in a different I mean there's parts of Pennsylvania and that's a that's part of the tragic that uh if I wasn't close to the the kinds of hospital that I was uh it's 100% that I wouldn't have survived that wow and it got me there in enough time and they were able to there was an expert there and and I I actually had I I met that doctor that's that literally saved my life uh and I'm like oh my God uh and he usually wasn't based in that hospital he was usually out of Delaware but he happened to be there and and that uh and he was here to to give me an an award for you know you know being that kind of a an advocate for those things I'm like no the you you deserve you deserve the award on that and and uh that's incredibly lucky yeah and and then um and then I I asked uh really looking for like a countdown of like well what's the prognosis and and I really there wasn't much there on that and I had to like uh was I going to sur survive for long or you know what's that going to look and then of course um the entire majority on the Senate really was on the middle of that and that's a big responsibility after that and then uh so the the primary it happened and I actually had a a very strong win and I won all of 67 counties uh Pennsylvania had 67 counties and we carried every County pH Philadelphia Pittsburgh and all across Pennsylvania uh but at that point I had a responsibility it's like am I able to recover or where kind of when I'm am I going to be okay and I wouldn't recommend being in that in that situation but I I made a commitment uh more than anything I was more worried about being being around to be a dad I mean I have three I have three young kids and my my wife you know she lived through all of this so at that at that point um it it started I was in the hospital for about 10 days and yeah and I start to get better and better that the strength started to come back a little bit but I it was still rough and it was very very clear though that I had a capacity to it's been impaired on on hearing and those kinds of interaction and those things uh so but but but that's the thing but but I had to decide de Side by August 15th and that's actually that's my birthday ironically that uh if I I step down uh by then or before then they're going to have to find somebody to replace me on the primary and that was going to be my drop uh my Dropout day on that so what was the operation how did they do it how did they remove the clot uh uh well it it's uh I it's I mean I had to originally I had to go back to I have to learn how to how to talk and speak you know I went to a speech therapist and have interaction and those kinds of things uh and my hearing and those kinds of things were still impacted by that and they had to monitor my heart because it was it effectively stopped I found out after the fact that it actually stopped and then uh that my heart had to recover so there was two kinds of things working there you know my my heart and then right before the primary they walked in and they said Well here here's what I suggest here's what I suggest now we are going to put a pacemaker we're going to put in a pacemaker and uh and we're like hey that's that's the best thing so they they put that device right here and for anyone if you're not really with that is a pacemaker but that that uh that manages your heart you know because I had a significant issue with aib and and that's really what what did that to my heart and uh they put that in and then uh that was that was um that was right before the primary and they put me under and I I uh so what year was this uh uh uh uh this was uh 22 2022 and before you had this stroke had you ever had any issues before with clotting or anything like was this like a not with clotting not with clotting you know my I have for good re for good things and for for bad things my heart was just like my father's you know and he had an issue with apib and he was in the hospital for so it's a genetic yeah a genetic and uh uh but I didn't I it was never an idea it was never an idea that uh I was going to even having a stroke that that wasn't part of the at least my thinking I I knew that I was in distress you know I could tell that my heart was was was was in problem and I was just going to get through this primary I mean there's a lot running on that uh and then that's that it didn't work out because the stroke hit three days before and and then that forced me uh and that put me on an incredibly different kind of a of a path after that and so where do they go in when they're removing the clot did they have to cut your skull open like how did they get it out of there uh they went up they went up uh uh in your vein in your leg and they went up and it's just it's a remarkable technology that through your leg all the way to your brain and they just sucked it out and they they they actually had uh an x-y an x-ray or whatever and you could say hey we got it out and I actually got to see uh although I really was still kind of out of it but that was the clot that that Alba took took my life and uh so I I mean there there were a lot things there you know suddenly your you know mortality was kind of like put right there in front of it yeah on and through that um do they have any idea what caused the clot is there they understand like what happened to you I'm always my grandmother uh had an aneurysm and uh it was horrible situation they didn't find her um for several hours uh afterwards my grandfather came home and she wasn't in the house and then he found her in the backyard she had collapsed and they gave her 72 hours to live and she lived for 12 years like that it was horrible my grandfather had to take care of her it was it was really really rough so I'm always like really concerned with that kind of stuff like I don't like what causes it do they know yeah well it's I I I mean I had for the first time in my life and I hope it's the last time that I'm uh confronted by this idea that the the doctors weren't able to provide any kinds of certainty or it's like oh yeah man you're going to be okay or things are going to be okay that that wasn't uh so they don't know what caused it well I mean it it was a fib and and and my heart weakened and the stress of the of the primary and on the ongoing kinds of issues uh it was already weakened about that issue earlier and everything kind of came together and my I guess my heart deteriorated to the point where that that caused uh the clot and then that the clot that's what nearly took my took my life so then you have to go to work so now you are an elected Senator and you have to go to work in the middle of recovery yeah it's uh I I I think uh I I mean it it's it's so diff it's uh I had a significant responsibility uh uh to to to stay in that and and winning through all those things uh and that's that was uh that was difficult enough um it was an important conversation and we had to run a campaign we had to run a campaign uh when I was it was difficult uh and I wasn't working at the kind of capacity that was necessary uh and that's uh we had to run up to the uh the 15th of August to decide if we're going to stay in that because there's a lot writing on that and you were also competing against Dr Oz which was weird you know this guy who's a celebrity Doctor Who's at least a little shady uh no it it's uh it it necessarily was the the yeah I I think uh I you know we were talking about captioning earlier right now and I uh I I think we're having an issue with some of the the the captioning right now here is it not showing up uh yeah there I think there's a there's a little bit of a delay well maybe it's the way I said Shady yeah he's a little shady like he he had been in trouble for talking about miracle diet remedies that weren't Miracles at all and he I believe he got brought in front of Congress so it was a little odd that that guy was running for Senate at all was he from Pennsylvania yeah well Dr Dr o yeah I I think I think from a technology I think we have to address the the cap it messing up right now yeah I I think the captioning uh the captioning is running a little bit behind on here so can we make some technological stop and have her fix it yeah okay we'll have her come fix it yeah okay we'll pause here ladies and gentlemen we'll be right back yeah I think we're I think we are I think we're good to go we yeah we put this on the Wi-Fi so and it's it's working great all right we're back so what I was just saying that it was odd that you were running against Dr Oz and he was just kind of Dr Oz yeah I mean Dr yeah and and he's uh he used to be you know people used to thought he was like really brilliant I mean he was like he was like an amazing kind of surgeon uh celebrity and then he turned his career into like on TV and then he started to pitch more kinds of questionable kinds of things and kind of kind of stuff uh and I I don't understand why somebody would would change uh his reputation I mean he was really revered in in that uh and I was I wouldn't even be I would have been comfortable to him operate on me uh but uh but he kind of lost that and what was also pretty funny is that he clearly he lived in New Jersey and so we were like hey we we need to use that and point out that so uh we just we decided early on that we're going to just like hey you know it matters it's like I mean there's nothing wrong with living on New Jersey but it there probably is an issue if you're running for for the Senate so and and I really have like an ethos is that I'm uh I'm not ever going to be mean and I'm not going to be personal about that so we tried to have a lot of fun with the fact that he lives in New Jersey and we just really uh just kept hitting him hitting him and I we had snooky did like a Cameo saying gee Mt good luck uh you know I know it's things are going rough now but you're going to be able to come back to New Jersey and and that got viral and we did a lot of those viral kinds of of moments um and you know they have this thing where they have what's really penetrated and you know they have circles on things like what what's really part of like people asking about Dr Oz and one of the zeros the O's was he's weird but the biggest one New Jersey I mean literally New Jersey was that was the biggest one yeah like Pennsylvania new Jersey even though they're neighbors they do have a bit of a rivalry uh yeah well of course and you know people have to understand that it's like it's like that funny thing and I mean it it borders with with Pennsylvania and and that that it really matters it matters that and of course Dr Oz was uh he was strange uh in some sense and we always tried to have fun with making fun of him are you a fan are you fan of The Simpsons yeah yeah but we we matched up perfectly with Dr Nick you know Dr Nick Dr Oz and we found all the the weird that Dr Nick would say and then they have a clip of Dr Oz saying those kinds of thing and and then and then that's that's where it was and we had a lot of fun with that and things we we all figured out well um we have we essentially we chose to kind of empty the clip uh metaphorically and really start hitting him you know we went up on TV throughout the summer and he was really put on his back uh and he was essentially thinking he could kind of take take the the summer off and then our polling we got up about 10 11 points and and things you know if anyone's listening ever heard of the 538 you know they they track on those those races and the highest percentage we had to win was I think about 84% and things kept wining great really really uh great and then I had to decide on my birthday on August 15th and things were going so well and I thought things I'm like okay uh then we decided to stay on that race uh and that's and that's what we did uh and then you know post Labor Day when and oh my gosh uh we just got uh we got nuked in in a way that uh it's never been uh experienced that before and then how so what do you mean oh uh a100 million of paid media to destroy you I mean just tear you apart every aspect of your life hundred million dollars they spent uh $100 million for a job that pays how much oh yeah oh just oh it CES from from pxs from Dr us Dr us put in 20 I think $28 million how crazy is that because like what is Senate what does it pay being a senator uh you pay being a senator yeah it's it's $174,000 yeah can I talk about this I I don't understand why you know some incredibly wealthy dudes will spend tens and tens of millions of dollars just to to to take that and I I try to uh tell people there's no glamour here I just talked about that in a an interview do you think he wanted to become president and this was like a step to being president I guess everybody wants the Iron Throne I I get but it's it's it's really uh and but it also it's a different it's a different kinds of uh skills uh and it it really doesn't transfer over very well on that but right now in in Pennsylvania right now now uh David McCormick a Connecticut man Connecticut man he's running in Pennsylvania and he lives in Connecticut and he's incredibly wealthy I think he's worth three or $400 million and he's spending the same race in Wisconsin they're dropping crazy and and really like that's an important conversation that the real problem in American politics for me is is uh citizens uh United and unlimited money uh when when they decided that money is speech and now that turns the whole thing in an incredibly damaging uh right now there's been at least more than half a billion dollars half a billion dollars on the table in Pennsylvania just for president not not not just not just uh the Senate races and other house States and and I was the most at least at that point was the most expensive Senate race in history and they it was over 300 uh $330 million uh for for that one seat and all of those dollars they're spent to destroy and tear you apart and then uh Fox News I was their top top Target for four months and social media and I I stayed out of that I I I didn't enjoy but uh social media all the conservative influencers everything uh and it just tore me apart and at that point at the end of September um it it was uh I mean I I couldn't get away from it and uh it really it's like until you've had aund million to to destroy you it's it's a it's a Next Level kind of thing and then everyone was they were saying well he's a vegetable you know he's a or he's lost his his brain and all kinds of things and then that wasn't true uh but but the kinds of terrible things and those kinds of very personal things and it just got incredibly ugly uh in a way yeah that has got to be a terrible experience to to realize that there's so much money being spent just to attack you and that you're you're a part of this very very large and corrupt machine that's going after you just because they want to control the state and it's a giant swing state of course and yeah the Senate the whole Senate the whole Senate was uh in fact uh we we actually we fli that seat and that's the first time I think in the 40s or 50s that we've had two Democratic senators in Pennsylvania usually it's been a a Dem and a Republican and now uh because we flip that seat that's it's mathematically it's possible to to retain the majority in the Senate but it's going to be still fairly diff difficult because we have Montana very very red State obviously and and that's really what the Republicans have put a significant bet to make sure that they can flip Montana and then if Montana Falls then they're going to keep the the major or they're going to get the majority unless there's like a really surprise one but uh that it may be more kind of difficult do you think that money is the the biggest problem in American politics this ability to spend insane amounts of money yeah I mean just imagine if you were a movie studio and you're putting out a you're you're going to put out a movie and a rival Studio has a hundred million to tell America that movie sucks you know that's and it's crazy and it's it's it's it's just there's always going to be unlimited money because it's all about the control of the senate or the house or the the presidency and when when money is is uh Speech it's going to be unlimited and and where what what happens it's like well that's TV and on on social and it's going to be how can I destroy and break this this individual and that's where it is and it gets incredibly personal and it has it has an impact I mean that certainly it has for me and until we have unlimited money it's going to get you know more and more mean personal and expensive and if you look at the billion you know billions of dollars that's spent how what we could have done for our society the kinds of reals that we could build and other things uh if we didn't spend all those money to tear each other apart yeah it's very strange and it sets a terrible tone for the rest of the country it because it the these races even though when they're over people go back to a certain level of Civility it's already of been established that this is on the table these personal attacks this evil vicious propaganda taking things out of context conflating people's words yeah no you you you have you know you take any a quote take it out of context clip that put $10 million behind that and that's in front of you know millions of eyeballs right there spontaneously on that and it just it's directly right at you and there's it's it's unlimited money I mean you know when you look back on this race it's like you are going to be stunned just how much money is put in that how crazy Those ads are and just you can't get away from it like Montana Montana has I think six or 700,000 votes voters and they've dropped a quarter of a billion dollars I I don't know how you could even spend a quarter of a billion dollarss in Montana it's like if you have $100,000 in cash you have to pay that in going to a McDonald's I don't know how they do that but I promise you everybody in Pennsylvania or in any other these kinds of contested States they just can't get away from that and at this point they just stop paying attention to it it's it just it's like it's it's noise it's toxic kinds of noise and it does it sets a tone for the whole country that we're willing to engage in this way oh yeah no it's like that's the thing it it it turns everything into a night fce or or or worse and it it is about trying to destroy that person and to to convince other people that you are the worst thing in the world you're you're a Marxist you're a communist or you're just all kinds of things and it's it's the lowest lowest denominator and if you really want to fix American politics I mean there's there are issues but I promise you if you removed that that would be a dramatic kinds of thing and we all have to play that game some of us like myself I I got a lot more of my money from small dollar donations like like Bernie Bernie I know he's been on the show Bernie but then other ones it's like everyone chases the bigger the bigger checks it's undeniable there too and it's so disingenuous and there's packs and there's other kinds of organizations one way or another it's just it's just the way to funnel tens of million dollars to just tear someone apart what was your background before you got into politics I was a social I was a social worker uh and I I I came to a very u a very deeply broken and fractioned uh fractor uh community and I actually started helping young men and women get their uh geds and just kind of getting their lives back on track in that sense uh and then that's why I uh I did that for several several years and then I decided I wanted to run for mayor and mayor of a of a small of a of a small town and uh we had problems with uh inequality uh in a community that had 90% uh of the population uh abandoned the community and left and if anyone's aware of the US steel I mean I live right now across the street from that iconic steel mill I mean that's really that that used to be America's Silicon Valley like about half of the world's steel used to be manufactured there uh but now so much has changed uh and then I ran for mayor and a small town mayor and and then that turned into well I decided like the kinds of issues that were meaningful to me and the personal kinds of experiences I I just thought hey I want to project my kinds of experiences and my values and I started uh to I ran for I ran for the first time in 2016 I ran for the Senate I mean it's pretty kind of strange that you have a small town mayor running for the United States Senate and uh but I mean we had no money I mean zero zero money on that but we just we' had a really like Grassroots kind of a thing and we got out across Pennsylvania and we know we came up a little short but we we pulled in 20% of the of the votes which that was pretty pretty people thought that was pretty remarkable and I carried my home county which is alagan that's the second largest and that really kind of set the stage uh to run for lieutenant governor a a couple years later after 2016 but 2016 though that was where America met Donald Trump and and I was I was early you know uh turning the alarm off saying hey we have to be concerned here like you know Trump has connected with people uh in ways uh that it's like we have to be concerned and I'll never forget it was June in 2016 and I was a I was a I was a surrogate for uh for Clinton and and Trump announced I'm showing up in a town called messen messen which is a small uh steel town in the valley down from from ours and I'm like why the why is he showing up in I mean that's not that like so either he's crazy or they've they've plugged into something and like I have to see that so I tried to get into that just to kind of see what was going on but they they recognized me and they said yeah get the out you're hard to hide yeah and and so but but there like they figured out that they have to connect and to make that kind of an argument to go to these kind of places and it it it it did it resonated and you started to see a lot of the signs and a lot of the energy and it's like hey you know there's there's a there's a problem uh and the the Clinton campaign everybody assumed that she was going to you know run away with it yeah and and they made they made the the mistake of just showing up in Philadelphia Philadelphia and Pittsburgh Pittsburgh and assume that they were going to be okay but but a lot had slipped and now the margins Trump created uh margins that were unheard uh like you know we refer to them as Romney margins so in other words you have red counties and Romney would they would cover those by about 60 to 65% and Trump did he created 80s 80s we were losing 8020 8020 and like well yeah that's a small County but yeah you multiply that by 57 57 other counties and that's how they scale up and that's how he won and he won by 45,000 votes and that's why he captured the blue wall and that made him president and here we are right now that the the blue wall is they're both fighting on the the blue wall and the blue wall is Pennsylvania Wisconsin and Michigan when when you were running during 2016 what were you trying to accomplish like what what did you want to do that you felt like you could uniquely provide a service for uh well it wasn't I just think it was just different I'm like hey I was running I was running for about forgot forgotten places people where Americas turned their backs on them and talking about those those kinds of important issues like uh living wage um abandoning uh the industrial parts of of America you know some people watching uh what what things have been left behind behind in places like bradock it's like uh it's astonishing 90% of people left and 90% of the buildings are gone and that whole region has just been uh just uh thrown thrown away uh so I just wanted I didn't you know there was a path I mean there were two other people uh in the primary uh and I thought I could maybe split I could split the other two and just sneak by and get 33% plus one extra vote but I I came up a little short because I had no money because it's always going to be about money uh and then uh Katie McGinty she won but she lost and and then that that was that same cycle and then uh and that the same year that that Trump won and so since you've been in since you've gotten into the Senate what meaningful change have you been able to accomplish there well I again you're you're a freshman and you know my colleague and one that was was just here Senator Vance I mean we were both in the same cycle we both ran in 22 so we' both there for less than two years and you it's really based on seniority and it's just kind of like hey get on the end of that line you know uh so you are a freshman and it's you know your influences you know at least uh in the institution are are limited in some sense but if you have a bigger platform and I did and I try to have those kinds of impacts and having those conversations but my my first couple uh first half of that first year uh that was a little took a different uh detour because you know I I was dealing with uh with depression I was with depression and I realized that I was in a in a bad place uh so so having that uh having to make those kind of choices and I signed myself in to Walter Reed to get help because the depression and and U so I I think uh it's an important conversation and I knew I I thought at that time it could be politically could be difficult uh but I thought it was important and and now if that cost me something politically I'm okay uh so that's why I'm continuing so how the impact I've had I never fully expected that that voice would would break through and I'm I'm in contact with people constantly saying thank you for for talking about this um I chose to get help um or I I chose not to to uh follow that path on self harm and uh so I've had active conversations with member of Congress or fathers with with younger kids and they're like hey can you please talk and I and I do that I'm happy to talk to anybody and and so that's a way I've had an impact through through all of that and also my voice through uh after what happened on 107th uh you know October 7 uh and I've decided I was going to be a very consistent voice uh for for Israel through that so that's why kind of like the platform but in terms of if anyone's being honest whether it was Senator Vance or any kinds of freshman Senators it's very limited because otherwise there's people that have been there for 25 30 years they're the ones that are be the chairman and if you're a minority party you have incredibly limited kinds of ability to to to move an agenda so the depression thing I think it's very important that you talked about that I think uh transparency is something that people really appreciate uh so many people suffer from depression it's such a normal part of being a human being and for a guy like you who's a senator who's already gone through being attacked already gone through all these horrible things that they said about you are you recovering from a stroke it takes a lot of courage to to come out and discuss that I think it's really important I'm I'm really glad you did it well I don't well thank you but I don't think it was really courage it's like I only had a choice but it is courage because you know you're going to be publicly attacked and it's a vulnerable point but I think it's not because I think so many people suffer from it I think there's courage and coming out and and talking about it openly and realizing that people are going to use as an attack vector and saying you know what this is important to talk about this is important to acknowledge and to to show people that you can recover from something like that well originally I was just going to talk about depression and and there's a paradox you know you might be a place in your life that that you've actually kind of won but the depression lies to you and it convinces you that you've lost and my depression got far more worse after I won and and then it it was a it was a downward spiral and then if you don't if you don't check your depression then you go down a dangerous slop about self harm and I started to have I got to to to occupy that kind of a dark place and um and that's when I realized that I have a choice it's like if I don't address this uh then um I I had I had an emergency break you know I it's like I I have to stop I have to stop I have to and that was my kids I'm like I I I'm like I cannot be I can't be the example and when you're going to be get older in life and you're going to have those kinds of challenge well hey Dad decided to to leave oh that must be the right thing and I'm like I will I cannot allow myself to be uh the example for that so I I stayed in the game and and I was able to get help and and I got much better so like for me it's like I originally didn't want to talk about self har because that's definitely that's definitely not a great political winner right but I I was like I have to be answered uh excuse me I have to be honor about that and and honest and uh and people that really resonated with people I was I think the first person I was the first politician especially at at that level talking about self harm and you know if people are that are suffering people that I mean you have a huge a huge audience I'm willing to bet plenty of them are suffering from that or looking through those kinds of is doubt no doubt yeah and and uh I you know I promise people whatever your path whatever your path is for Recovery uh and I'm not an expert but if you promise yourself to stay in that game stay in that game that you already you know you're almost guaranteed to get better because I promise you it will get better and I was at the point where I was really you know in a very dark place and uh I stayed in that game and I am staying in front of front of you right now and having this conversation and uh so that's what I try to tell everybody whether they're listening today or in other times when I've had that uh it's it's an honest conversation but it is a red and blue conversation and it's a rural and urban or Suburban conversation it's men or women or even younger kids I've had conversations with teenagers you know with their parents and they've even tried to take their lives and I can't think of anything much more tragic than especially a young person taking their lives over some of the things that that um and and I never thought that that voice would would penetrate but it did and that's why I'm willing to have that conversation well it's apparently it's very common for people that undergo major surgery to uh have depression afterwards and there's a a bunch of physiological reasons for that they believe my friend Dr Mark Gordon who's done a lot of work on traumatic brain injuries and uh depression amongst athletes and soldiers he did a lot of research on that and one of one of the things that they found was that people that undergo uh like a long period of anesthesia and either heart surgery or any kind of major surgery there's a disruption of your endocrine system after afterwards that leads people to be just weary and broken down and I could imagine that along with the senate race and all the other chaos and all the stresses involved with that it plays a significant factor well I'm sure it must have been a a factor um I I discovered that I had I had two friends um they're roughly my age and they had young kids and uh they took they took their lives and they were both in the in the media and both one was worked for an incredibly Elite organization and another one had a really strong position one had a a heart attack and the other one had a stroke years earlier and I found out and and I wish I could have talked to them and I did talk to to to them but uh it doesn't mean they were weak or that they gave up it it's just I got lucky and I I found my emergency break and and and if you have any kinds of study on people and and self harm there was an individual he jumped off the Golden Gate and he survived and immediately after he says uh as he crossed over the rail and he I want to live I want to live what have I done it's like I've made a terrible mistake and you hit you hit the water going 75 miles an hour and it's it's very against chance of surviving but he did and now he became obsessed with this idea and he he looked out for everyone that survived and about 45 people out of 00 people that have jumped over they survived and it was unanimously people immediately like oh my God I want to live I want to live I want to live and not one single person thought well I wish I was more successful uh so like that's I I try to put that forward and I can't imagine how difficult because uh they had children the same age mind and trying to explain to a 10-year-old uh son like why did daddy leave and uh those are dark conversations and uh uh so uh it's not about weakness it's about trying to get away from that people that are suffering from depression if to if anyone's been there it's like your your mind is on fire and you just want to get away from that I just please I need relief from that kind of a thing and every now and then you have like kind of like the eye of the hurricane or you finally thought maybe things could get better but it it it Roars back in and it's like you get to back to that very dark place and and I just you know I just tell everybody I'm beg I'm begging you stay in that game I promise you it can get better and the the depression is lying to you it is absolutely lying to you and uh is but don't make the kind of choice that you can't come back from I have a friend who uh jumped off the bridge died that way yeah it's uh it's a terrible just a a terrible thing to find out and you you always feel like you could have talked to them you could have helped you always feel like you I didn't know I didn't know he was suffering and then I found out that he died a few days later and it was just like it just leaves you feeling so lost it's such a terrible way to go too that bridge God how many people like what you say how many people have jumped off that bridge the Golden Gate I I think that they they referenc about over 1,800 people uh and a small small tiny survived uh and and really being faced that idea that you're not going to come back it's it's like spontaneously Curative like oh my God I want to live I want to live I want to live like it's it's it was unanimous about uh and and that's such an important kinds of re research that that that he did um and it it's like and again like that's my message it has to be very simple stay in that game it it's like you you can't do this you can't do this and you need support uh yeah yeah you need support whatever that is and some people have different kinds of resources I mean I would want that for everybody the resources that I had and that's not fair it's not fair um and it it I got lucky it's not because I'm like I'm so much stronger or or better it's like no no I just got lucky on that and I promise you you're not going to regret staying in the game and you can get better and that is probably I think in my uh my opinion that's about 75% of of getting back better what have you done to to help what has helped you uh my my family that that's that's really what like every every person needs to have like uh that eer I call that like an emergency break it's like you know you are you're out of control you know you're having that the darkest conversation you'll have with yourself and you have to have some something to stop that otherwise it's you're going to go over the edge and and everyone needs to have that whatever that is whether it's your family whether it's your wife or your husband or whether it is uh uh or this that there has to be some it has to get better it's going to get better you know that's why I say stay on the game and I'm not an expert I'm not trained in that but when people reach out to me and say well I feel like this and and I'm like hey it's like you know help works I promise you it will get better and I can't guarantee what your path will be but what I can say is that stay in that game and you were going to find your way on that path and you're never going to regret it's like oh you know be uh it's it just the the finality the finality of that uh and you're some things you can make a bad choice and you know well that might set you back in life but but that's the that's the one CH the one choice you can't come back from and you will leave people in your life that they'll never understand or you wish you could reach back and you could let them know uh and it stay away from that kind of Blackness because uh you're I promise you you would regret uh and and if you can't come back so what what has helped you counsel medication like what what did what are the things that got you back on track other than just your family I uh the election uh and everything I was convinced that I've lost everything uh I had you know it was difficult to to fully speak and my my kids they got pulled into the social media kinds of uh invective and um uh it's like I've I've destroyed my my health I've I've and now I've against you know odds I I won and now am I going to be able to do this job and and you know would I have been better off uh if if I didn't survive uh and I got to that that kind of a a dark place but um and then I just had this like that spontaneous where it's like uh uh my kids it's like like no I love you like oh my gosh it's like like when they were visiting uh I didn't want them to visit me at Walter Reed like I was like why would they want to be around this you know right uh but they they did and it it was like this kind of spontaneous kinds of love and and it it it just was like a shot and it's just like I can come back I can come back I I thought it's like why would they want this me a mess back uh and and and then you know just working through a lot of those things and and other kinds of techniques and things it was like but that was probably the single most transformative event where it's like I realize that I can come back to my life otherwise it's like I thought I've lost everything would I be able to even do my job and it's like do I even have a career I mean I'm talking about uh like uh that was a significant national uh story when after I signed myself in and that pulled my kids in through that I mean this idea and after we announced that we're signing in and there were news trucks outside their house and and they had they had the trauma of thinking that Dad could have lost after the stroke and now he is it's just it's they it's put them through so much and that's why I was convinced that they probably don't want me around and then I made the I made the stupid mistake of I I I went on social media and things I'm like and just I read some of that I mean it's just it's just oh my God millions and millions of views in videos and it's just like you know going after my family and it's saying that you know uh you know hey he's a vegetable he's you know he's a and uh you know sling sling blade all kinds of things and it wasn't it wasn't the individual kinds of insults it was the volume and just how WID Sprint it was and I'm like who jumps online to go after a a a stranger that's never really done anything to you personally well I think it's not just individuals I think it's targeted I think there's a lot of that stuffff especially when there's something that is significant as a senate seat and I think there's yeah well I mean it's like if I have aund if I have a100 million to convince you that you're a terrible person and you're the worst thing ever and that that that inspires a lot of people and they hey that's the mission it's like he clearly he must be those things and you know we're now there there is no there's no tap out there is no tap out it's like even after we won after I won in some sense it actually accelerated right it's not the the war is not over it's just begun no oh no no and the the second the second you step into that kind of Arena on the federal level for for like a a senate uh seat if if it's like a purple State like Pennsylvania you know I promise you there will be tens and tens of millions of dollars and their mission is to turn you into the worst thing in the world and whoever survives that's the one that's going to be in that seat and I still will never understand why someone uh you know independently wealthy kinds of people will spend you know incredible amounts of money and and I Tred people I'm like there's no glamour here like I like I'm in a 500 square foot apartment and I'm like here with my phone I'm like hey GrubHub what's said tonight mm and then it's like I'm like I watch you know TV on Netflix and things and I I ask I ask uh my colleagues I'm like hey is there kind of secret society like you know like you know crazy parties or you know sitting around with cigars and you know you know all this and they're like well well no I I kind of have the same version of of that that's the perception though right the perception yeah the perception is we invited into a club yeah now you control the world yeah that we all have kinds of dialogue on West Wing you know like talking like you know kinds of turn you know uh and really it's it's just like and and I describe that as a lot of it's just bad it's just bad performance art yeah yeah thanks that's usually what it it is it's just bad performance art and some people like if you're if you're in a safe in a safe state or a safe seat you and especially if you have the resources and they're incredibly wealthy people uh they buy a a house and they move their life there so you're able to kind of things but uh like I don't have those resources and I'm in a very very the ultimate purple and so I spend more than 50% of my time away and I miss my kids it's it's it's rough uh for for that I mean I signed up for that uh but I I promise you there's no glamour uh in that well there's certainly no glamour if you're honest but I think there's a lot of people that look to uh certain members of the government that have jobs that pay 150 $170,000 a year but somehow or another acquire hundreds of millions of dollars over the course of their career usually through some kind of insider trading uh well yeah of course I mean uh I I don't own any of those stocks or anything and definitely like if if you have any kinds of impact or you know that there's something s is coming I mean yeah like it's like you you need how is that legal uh it's well no we we should have the kind of legislation to make sure that you're not like if you are on Congress you shouldn't have any kinds of stocks because you are going to be passing kinds of laws etc etc that you you know you have to separate that there they really shouldn't be a part of that kinds of a thing and um I mean know I'm all out I'm open um all of us we have to have our our our wealth and our you know all that there and I and if I'm not the the the the the poorest uh I have probably the the bottom five and you know other people there are worth hundreds of millions of dollars uh so you know we can't have that situation where you know if you're going to be involved on those kinds of legislation that you can't be enriched by those kinds of and and there has to be some kind of influence that seems simple that seems like Lo logical like most people would agree to that yeah there's a lot of there's a lot of iner it's the same thing I I think if any one of us we're being honest uh money is destroying our democracy and and that that's that some people that might sound trite or it's a cliche but it's it's 100% though I most people who are objective would agree with you it it it I promise you it is it is absolute it is a scourge of American democracy and money is King and what's that money for that money is for tearing you apart and that creates more more and more kinds of incivility and cruelty and then now when I went through when I was in graduate school for that stuff I mean there was no social media and there wasn't all you know there wasn't podcasts there wasn't all kinds of things uh so that made it more difficult but but now there's all of those things and and social media is an accelerate uh and count you know just unlimited money and that has what you know like I'm sure you you know you're you're an athlete and you if you've heard that NFL players it's like wait would you want your son to play and sometimes say well no I wouldn't want that for my son uh and and it's like I'm relieved that uh my oldest is like he has no interest in being in politics and that so uh it's I I can't imagine it's going to get better until you know we address this idea that unlimited money is unlimited uh attack and it's un an unlimited cruelty and Hyperbole and just all kinds of poisoning the the will that you know half of us are going to hate your guts and the other half that's my team yeah so well I I strongly feel that the internet should remain the way it is in terms of people being able to post on social media anonymously if they so choose but the problem with that is it can be captured by money and it can be captured by the these enormous groups that have bot Farms whether it's uh State actors whether it's other countries other nations that are doing that to try to attack our our system and to try to promote certain narratives or whether it's our own country itself doing it because I think we do it too and I think that PS do it and it's just people hook themselves up it's like you you self- select your cocoon yes you know and like uh I'm a big fan of Apple news and it's like 13 bucks a month and and but I read everything across the Spectrum you know very very left and very very right in between and and I think it's really I think that's your responsibility especially if you're an elected leader uh to to be challenged to challenge yourself on the ideas and it's like clearly one side doesn't have all the answers and the other side can't be 100% wrong and and it's just like being challenging and living or taking in other kinds of perspectives uh I think that's a responsibility cuz otherwise if you only just cocoon yourself into and it's just it turns into one gigantic circle jerk and and that's why it just turns people to just kind of dig in and it's like hey you know the the problem is them and we have to well it's a problem with human beings in general is that we tend to be very tribal and we tend to commit to an ideology whether comfortable it's comfortable sure especially when you're in an echo chamber everyone's agreeing with you you get social credit from saying the things that these people all agree with and you you feed off that but it's when it's being captured by it's not just these people exchanging ideas it's also a bunch of people that are manipulating people's ideas you know I don't know if you've ever paid attention to like uh Renee desta's work with the uh internet research agency what what what they what they uncovered what what they were doing was using this was like during the 2016 election using social media and it was a lot of Russian troll farms and troll farms in other countries it's it's it's possible but but but but to be honest I I that that election wasn't turned on I think Russian in interference I I'm not I I what what happened in 2016 was Trump you know he plugged into like kinds of a of an energy or you know like it was just like kind of looking uh to to make that kind of a a connection there well he's a legitimate Outsider this is the appeal the appeal is that people think that this system is completely rigged and it's captured by money and special interests and enormous corporations and that here's a guy who's outside of this system completely and the evidence of that is how the system turned against him and how you got to see people on television every night talking about Russia gate talking about how he's a puppet of Putin talking about the steel dossier a talking about all these different things that turned out to not be true and it it further I never bought I never bought into some of that kind of a stuff because if anyone that spent any time on the ground in one of those States it's like it's very clear that wasn't because of some some small kinds of tweets and things like whatever uh it's it's it's it's undeniable and and also uh remember like he was uh you know the Republican party was like hey this is a joke and I remember Jeb Jeb Bush you know and he W he had like 100 or two2 200 million and and he just went by he ticked him off uh and and even then people thought he was going to win but uh he did but but remember though overall though that was 75,000 votes that's a mathematical like uh you know I mean think of that 100 160 million votes 75,000 spread across three large States including my own that transformed uh American politics and in the world as well and it just came down to 75,000 voters in those three states and that that's kind of where that's where we're at yeah it's um it's an extraordinary time in that regard right I mean it's well I mean if Uncharted Territory well I I I referen a movie if you like a bullworth I remember that movie bullworth and you know it was Warren Beauty and he was a a senator and he kind of have like a breakdown and he started saying provocative things he used to get up in front of his audience and and kind of like uh like that Gaff of of accidentally speak you know telling the truth yeah and um it was kind of like it was an absurd I mean when I was in grad school that was like put up as like well that I mean people enjoyed that and now that became a term in politics saying oh we uh in even uh President Obama was like hey we all want to secretly Go full bull full bull worth mhm and but but that's what really he channeled in where he would say uh you know it's kind of like he projects kind of like well I don't give a and just say all those kinds of a thing and and people have responded to those kinds of things and and there you know a lot of people they that that's the that's the bug but you have to understand that that for enough people that's the feature yeah and and that's kind of what they want and and whatever that is it it describes uh uh a brand that you know it's it's not I don't admire that but you still have to kind of uh Marvel at at at the level to say crazy kinds of things that that it you I'm well I guess maybe we're both old enough to remember when uh George in the George Bush uh Al Gore he is like God this guy and that moved the poles people were like he rolled his eyes at Bush you know like things and like you know like it used to be much more stayed and now think of what's been said now and all of the stuff and and I don't think people aren't paying attention some of the uh whatever the latest outrage is yeah it's um I think one of your appeals is that you speak like a normal human being you speak like a person who actually cares about these issues and you seemingly speak from the heart you don't seem polished which is a good thing and I think people I wish I wish I was more handsome you know I don't think I don't think that's good oh no no I I know it's like I'm honest yeah I'm honest I I think I'm in I'm in touch with you know what I'm limited I wasn't blessed with model looks and uh but it's not looks it's the Polish of speaking like a congressman like a senator like a presidential candidate but it's this kind of way of communicating that's inauthentic that even though it's effective even though it's polished and smooth people never get a sense of who that person is as a human being Trump is not polished he's not polished in that sense but you get a sense of who he is as a human being that doesn't seem to be a veil there doesn't seem to be this this disconnect between a human being and the thoughts you might not agree with him you might think he's crass or rude but at least you know that he's the guy that's talking these are his thoughts and you people trust that way more than they trust someone who's you know polished but full of yeah no it's it's that Scarface it's like you know word and balls you know I'm not going you know and that's you you're losing politically if you're telling people to not believe what their eyes are seeing right you know like these kinds of issues and and it's like I'm not going to lie or I'm not going to tow a line if I don't if I don't believe if I don't believe in that that uh so um but in terms of of the the conversation um I I I think it's like it's it's all I've got and uh and it's not because I don't care it's actually I'm very committed and I really do care but but I think people are you know like I think authenticity that's the that's the last that's really that's one of the last uh meaningful currency in this shitty business uh so I was having a conversation this morning with a friend of mine and we were talking about voter ID and and he was shocked that you don't need voter ID in I believe it's 15 states 15 states require no ID uh 20 I think it's 24 or 25 states require ID but only I think 11 of them require you to have photo ID this is a weird one in this election that I've tried tried to look at as objectively as possible and I can't see any reason why you would not need ID to vote unless you wanted people to vote that aren't qualified to vote yeah well I mean uh like honest honestly I would I would like to remind everybody and it's it's not like a talking point it's actually it's in a fact that voter fraud is incredibly incredibly rare it's really hard to to to um to to get away with that successful and in 2020 that's scale you mean uh yeah it's not scalable yeah it's like I mean um it's like and usually it's it's kind of local kinds of communities and people they either know that person or it's it's not it it it's never going to be organized in a point where you can pack you can pack uh a box or you can't determine that that kind of a thing it's it's just that you know after election election election it it's just never been you know in 2020 out of uh over millions of votes in 2020 in Pennsylvania there were five or six you know ones and what happened is that that they they turned out to be uh the Republicans and they used their deceased their their dead moms you know to to vote for Trump through that and and that that was that was documented and they were all they were all they they were uh uh caught they were charged they were convicted and all those votes that would have been six votes out of all of it so it think that that's the only voter fraud that exists well people also we need to remind that you know the the the voter database their cross checks against deaths and you know who's moved or what's their status are like oh like you know all that's cross checked back and forth back and forth back and forth so it's it's it's a living kinds of thing where it's continually updated and all of those kinds of things and it it self checks and remember also in 2020 you know Trump there was like way there's there's cheating there's all these things are happening and remember there's probably 57 58 red counties and all of those Commissioners that are in charge of that they were like hey no there was none there was none and even in Georgia even in Georgia uh Governor Kemp Governor Kemp uh like hey you know Georgia you know it was very close but it was it was honest there was no there was no kinds of fraud in that and that's that's a republican but other than making things a little bit easier to cheat what would be the logic behind not having voter ID like what I I've tried to look at this as objectively as possible I can't find any reason why you would not require someone to be able to prove that they're the person they say they are when they're putting in their ballots it's it's not a hill that I'm saying I we have to die on that too again uh but but it's a vulnerability clearly right well well it it's also there some people may not believe that uh in in a lot of these kinds of communities you know ones that I that I live in um for some people they they're not going to they don't they don't have an IDE necessarily or they've lost it or whatever and you know like but you need one to get a driver's license you need one to get a c yeah they would have to get an ID or it it costs x amount of dollars um or those kinds of a thing it's it's a barrier and it usually tends to skew more towards people that are you know coming from those kinds of communities and the Republicans understand that they're usually going to they're going to skew towards Democratic voters through that uh and uh so that that's kind of the argument uh on that and there's never been any evidence that there is widespread kinds of of uh voter fraud uh and that's but we really didn't have widespread mail-in ballots to the extent that it was done in 2020 we really didn't have that before all of those were all of those were you know those five or six you know dead moms that were voting uh those were all those were all U well actually one one guy one guy went in he voted you know and then he went up to his car and he put on sunglasses in a bob cap and he walked in he's like hi hello I'm here to vote and the guy's like you were just here what are you doing and then they called the police uh and and then it's like yeah he was trying to double vote and did you uh see the story about the Chinese uh National who was arrested because uh he voted and then uh he tried to get his ballot back and that's how they they caught him it's possible yeah yeah this is thing that just happened and unfortunately once he's voted even though he was not eligible to vote his vote is going to count um Texas removed some I mean there's lawsuits about it but Texas removed somewhere in the neighborhood of a million people t