Josh Hammer Addresses Conspiracy Theories and Anti-Semitism Following Charlie Kirk's Murder and Religious Liberty Victories

[00:00] On today's newsmakers, how the Bible was

[00:01] [music] formed, a Christian victory, and

[00:03] debate over Charlie Kirk. That and more

[00:06] coming up.

[00:15] Welcome to Newsmakers, a show where we

[00:17] go behind the headlines each and every

[00:18] week to bring you interviews with

[00:20] pastors, entertainers, politicians, and

[00:23] other notable news figures. First on

[00:25] today's show, we are diving into a

[00:27] writer's story. His name is Josh Hammer.

[00:30] He is here to open up about the murder

[00:32] of his friend Charlie Kirk, conspiracy

[00:34] theories, anti-semitism, and more. Let's

[00:37] welcome him here to Newsmakers.

[00:41] Obviously, it has been a difficult month

[00:43] after the loss of Charlie Kirk. How have

[00:46] you been processing the loss of such a

[00:48] close friend?

[00:50] Well, Billy, it's uh it's horrific. I

[00:54] mean, it's horrific. It's

[00:55] unconscionable. is the first time in my

[00:56] entire life I've had a friend murdered,

[00:59] let alone a friend murdered in in this

[01:01] particular fashion. And what makes it

[01:04] particularly unconscionable is the way

[01:06] that just terrible, terrible human

[01:09] beings, some of them have tried to seize

[01:12] on this moment to glom on to something

[01:15] that isn't there, a unicorn, and try to

[01:18] further their punish agenda. That has

[01:20] been, I think, the most disturbing

[01:21] aspect, frankly, of all. you found

[01:23] yourself in a position where you didn't

[01:25] want to be in this position, but you

[01:26] were posting screenshots from a

[01:28] conversation that Charlie was in that

[01:30] you were also in. Again, you didn't want

[01:32] to do that, but I assume you felt

[01:34] compelled. What drove that decision?

[01:37] Well, I didn't want to do this. I mean,

[01:38] very shortly after Charlie was killed,

[01:40] you had a lot of people I I mean, the

[01:41] debate over Charlie Kirk's legacy,

[01:43] Billy, started while his blood was b was

[01:46] still drying up. I mean I mean the whole

[01:49] thing started so quickly and obnoxiously

[01:51] and frankly sickeningly quickly this

[01:54] debate over Charlie Ker's legacy and

[01:56] that debate from what I could tell

[01:58] centered mostly on his relationship with

[01:59] with the Jewish people and with Israel

[02:01] which is kind of disturbing in of itself

[02:03] that this is immediately where the

[02:05] conversation went. I mean Charlie Kirk,

[02:07] yeah, he was very very supportive of

[02:10] making friendships and alliances with

[02:11] the Jewish people. I know that because

[02:13] that's literally me. Like I actually

[02:15] live this out on a day-to-day basis. He

[02:17] was vocally supportive of of Israel,

[02:20] especially Israel's various wars over

[02:23] radical fanatical Islamists. But he was

[02:24] outspoken on a lot of issues. Among the

[02:27] things that that has happened is we all

[02:29] saw very recently Candace Owens acquired

[02:32] a a screenshot from this small WhatsApp

[02:35] chat that that I was in with Charlie

[02:37] Kirk. There were seven or eight people.

[02:38] I was one of them. And Candace Owens

[02:41] seized on this totally out of context

[02:44] screenshot of Charlie Kirk being very

[02:46] upset that a Jewish donor was

[02:48] withholding his $2 million donation. And

[02:51] she used this as an attempt to say, "Oh,

[02:52] Josh Hammer's lying that Charlie Kirk

[02:54] remained pro-Israel until his his final

[02:57] moments."

[02:57] >> Yeah. But she's also holding us that 2

[02:59] hours after this screenshot, if you look

[03:01] at the timestamps, 2 hours after that, I

[03:04] and a few others were in a small Zoom

[03:06] chat, a small Zoom call with Charlie

[03:08] Kirk the night before he was killed that

[03:10] Charlie organized. Charlie organized

[03:12] this Zoom call for the express purpose

[03:15] of trying to make sure that he had all

[03:17] the best answers, the best messaging

[03:19] advice for how to speak about Jewish

[03:21] Christian relations and the Israel

[03:24] question on college campuses. So Kenneth

[03:26] Owens's whole timeline is off. And then

[03:28] even after that earlier this week when I

[03:30] was offline for the Jewish holiday of

[03:32] Sukkot I she apparently started accusing

[03:35] me of complicity of complicity in

[03:38] Charlie Kirk's murder and this is part

[03:40] of her ongoing crusade to somehow make

[03:42] this about the Jewish people. So Candace

[03:44] accused me of complicity there and I've

[03:46] been dealing with with horrific

[03:48] anti-semmites and neo-Nazis as you can

[03:49] imagine because crawling

[03:51] >> that was going to be my question. How is

[03:52] this impacting your life now that you

[03:54] are in the middle of of this? Obviously,

[03:57] >> I'm certainly speaking with lawyers. I

[03:59] because I think I I'm I'm a lawyer,

[04:01] Billy, as you may or may not recall

[04:02] myself. So,

[04:03] >> we'll do a little more digging into that

[04:05] and see whether or not I ultimately

[04:06] decide to bring a case there.

[04:08] >> Look, above all, what I'm most concerned

[04:10] with, of course, as a as a husband, a

[04:12] father is is my family. You know,

[04:14] thankfully I I live I live in Florida

[04:16] and you know, Florida law enforcement is

[04:18] aware of all this and and and and they

[04:19] are just generally amazing. But it's it

[04:22] will it will not shut me up, Billy. It

[04:24] will absolutely not shut me up. I mean,

[04:26] this sort of stuff will never ever shut

[04:28] me up. They're trying to get me to just

[04:30] to stop talking and they're trying to

[04:31] get me to to to confess or concede that

[04:34] Charlie Kirk was actually quote unquote

[04:36] turning on Israel. Whatever they they

[04:38] think they whatever they think they want

[04:40] me to do, I'm not going to do it. So

[04:41] that that is ultimately what led me to

[04:43] to release against my will. Like I

[04:45] genuinely did not want to do this

[04:47] because I'm being accused of murdering

[04:49] my friend. Okay? I'm being accused of of

[04:51] having some fornowledge or complicity or

[04:54] whatever this mental patient is is at

[04:56] the trying to wink wink nudge nudge

[04:58] accuse me doing and I have to clear my

[05:00] name. And among the ways of clear my

[05:02] name was showing that Charlie Kirk's

[05:05] literal final messages in this WhatsApp

[05:08] chat were thanking us for the Zoom call

[05:12] that he organized to kind of bolster his

[05:14] pro-Israel messaging on that campus

[05:16] tour.

[05:16] >> Well, and let and let me make a point

[05:18] here too. You are Jewish. You were on

[05:20] this message, right? You saw these

[05:22] messages. You were, I'm assuming, not

[05:25] offended. I mean, you were in this, you

[05:27] understood the context of these messages

[05:29] as you were engaging with them and with

[05:31] him. The the question, and I know it's

[05:33] going to sound like a dumb question

[05:34] because I know how you're going to

[05:35] answer it. Was Charlie turning on

[05:37] Israel? That's the question, right? So,

[05:39] I want to throw that to you and just

[05:40] give you the final word on that. Charlie

[05:43] was not turning on Israel for a very

[05:44] simple reason, which is that he was a

[05:47] man of faith and his theology was coming

[05:50] from a very spiritually, theologically

[05:53] sound place when it came to the Jewish

[05:55] people. Charlie Kirk Billy kept his

[05:57] version of the Jewish Sabbath. I mean,

[05:59] he didn't observe all the various 39

[06:01] levels of prohibited labor that I and

[06:03] other Orthodox Jews observe, but he

[06:04] literally turned his phone off for 25

[06:06] hours from Friday night to Saturday

[06:08] night. He has a whole forthcoming book

[06:10] on the Sabbath, on honoring the Sabbath.

[06:13] There Charlie Kirk was someone if you if

[06:15] you look at his social media feed, he

[06:17] was just as fond of quoting the book of

[06:19] Genesis or the book of Psalms as he was

[06:21] the New Testament. He was his

[06:23] Christianity was very much the

[06:25] Christianity of the American founding.

[06:26] It was the Christianity of George

[06:28] Washington, John Adams, Alexander

[06:29] Hamilton, John J. men who were deeply

[06:33] deeply inspired by the story of the

[06:35] Israelites in the Hebrew Bible. And that

[06:37] Charlie would never ever turn on the

[06:40] Jewish people or on Israel for that

[06:42] reason and that reason alone. Now, was

[06:44] he frustrated that the war in Gaza was

[06:46] was taking a very long time to finish?

[06:49] For sure. Would he have been happy had

[06:51] he lived to see this this new ceasefire

[06:54] hostage deal that President Trump has

[06:55] orchestrated? He would be thrilled,

[06:57] absolutely thrilled to see that there.

[06:59] Was he suddenly about to become a a a

[07:01] Tucker Carlson or or Candace Owens like

[07:04] ultra conspiracy theorist? No. On the

[07:06] contrary, even his final months,

[07:08] including at the final Turning Point USA

[07:10] conference that I did with him on stage

[07:12] at the Student National Summit in July,

[07:14] he said over and over and over again,

[07:16] "Do not succumb to the mind virus. Do

[07:19] not let your brain rot get to the point

[07:21] where you were just hating on the Jews.

[07:22] He said that on stage with me sitting

[07:24] two feet away from there. He kept that

[07:26] thought in mind until the very day he

[07:28] died.

[07:28] >> Josh Hammer, I appreciate you joining

[07:30] me. I know this is not easy to talk

[07:32] about, but I appreciate you doing so and

[07:34] being with us today.

[07:35] >> My pleasure. Thank you.

[07:39] >> Please continue to pray for those

[07:40] mourning Charlie Kirk and for truth and

[07:42] grace to prevail. We'll be right back in

[07:45] just a moment with more news [music]

[07:47] makers.

[07:55] Welcome back to Newsmakers. Next up,

[07:57] Aaron Zimmerman, a director with CBN

[07:59] Films, joins us to talk about her new

[08:02] movie, Oracles of God: The Story of the

[08:04] New Testament. It's a film all about how

[08:06] the Bible came to be. Let's welcome

[08:09] Aaron here to the show.

[08:13] So there's a lot happening right now in

[08:15] America and this film is coming at an

[08:18] incredible time. You have college

[08:19] students waking up, finding faith. You

[08:22] have I mean it's amazing watching the

[08:24] moves of God that are happening around

[08:26] not just the country but around the

[08:28] world. And you started working on this

[08:30] film years ago and here we are. What do

[08:33] you make of the timing of this movie?

[08:36] You know, I I have asked God so many

[08:38] times during this process why. I really

[08:41] did start it in 2017 when I was living

[08:44] in Israel. We started, you know, just

[08:46] shooting some beautiful scenic footage

[08:48] while I was there and came back in 20

[08:51] late 2019 and said, "Okay, now we'll do

[08:53] the principal photography next year."

[08:56] Well, next year was 2020. So, you know

[08:58] how that went. [laughter]

[09:00] >> Co. Oh gosh.

[09:02] >> Co all over. The next year we did film,

[09:05] but we Israel was still closed because

[09:07] of COVID. So, I kind of fit in these

[09:09] very few weeks. I jumped into Israel,

[09:12] then it closed again because of the

[09:13] Delta variant. So, we kind of had that

[09:16] going. We came back in 2023, spent the

[09:18] summer in Israel doing pre-production.

[09:20] We were supposed to start filming on

[09:22] October 9th, 2023.

[09:26] >> So, two days before that, we know what

[09:28] happened with Hamas on October 7th. And

[09:31] that was one where I really said, "Okay,

[09:33] God, what are you doing?" Because you

[09:35] had me here all summer. You had us get

[09:37] all the way up to filming and then why?

[09:41] Um, the answer I got back then was, "He

[09:44] really, I want you to be here. I want

[09:46] you to be here with your people while

[09:47] this is going on." And it it somehow

[09:50] means a lot to my Israeli cast and crew

[09:53] that I'm there with them during that,

[09:55] that I'm not running away from it, that

[09:57] we're going through it together. Um, and

[09:59] so, you know, we can see now God had his

[10:01] has his timing. You know, last year the

[10:03] Wall Street Journal said, "This is a

[10:05] golden age of Bible publishing." Who

[10:07] would ever have thought that? You know,

[10:10] Bible sales last year were up last year.

[10:12] I mean, this is before Charlie Kirk and

[10:14] all the things that are going on now to

[10:16] sort of stir this up. Last year, Bible

[10:19] sales were up 22% over the previous

[10:21] year. This year already they've they've

[10:24] already sold a million more Bibles than

[10:27] they had at this point last year. Now,

[10:29] this is like physical Bibles from

[10:31] stores. This isn't on on counting online

[10:33] sales or whatever. And I I don't even

[10:35] really carry a physical Bible anymore. I

[10:37] do everything online. So, this is really

[10:40] remarkable. And so, God had his plan

[10:42] back in 2017. He knew everything that

[10:45] was going to happen and he knew that we

[10:47] were going to land right at this point.

[10:49] And that's all I can say. his timing is

[10:50] better than ours.

[10:52] >> It's amaz I mean it's amazing and and to

[10:54] your point I mean one of the numbers

[10:55] that has shocked me is the people most

[10:57] likely to go to church right now

[10:59] regularly are young people. That is

[11:01] something if three years ago you had

[11:03] said to me, "Yeah, it's Gen Z and

[11:05] millennials that are going to go to

[11:06] church the most." I would have laughed.

[11:07] I would have said that's ridiculous,

[11:08] right? And here we are. But I think

[11:10] you're so right. There's such a a thirst

[11:12] for this and you have oracles of God,

[11:14] the story of the New Testament where

[11:16] you're putting together how the New

[11:18] Testament, you're helping people

[11:19] understand and you're explaining this.

[11:21] Take us through the journey that people

[11:23] will experience when they go to

[11:25] theaters.

[11:26] >> Okay. Well, The Chosen has done a very

[11:28] good thing for all of Christianity in

[11:31] refamiliarizing everybody with the

[11:33] stories that are in the Bible, with

[11:35] Jesus and who he was, with his

[11:37] followers. And so, that's opened up a

[11:39] lot of doors. Now we have a lot of

[11:41] stories about Jesus and our film starts

[11:45] a little bit beyond that right after the

[11:47] you know Jesus crucifixion and

[11:48] resurrection. How did those stories get

[11:51] written down? How did we get those? I

[11:53] mean how did we go from apostles through

[11:56] all through Jesus ministry? Jesus was

[11:58] saying to them I'm telling you but you

[12:00] still don't understand. You still don't

[12:02] understand what's going on. Right up to

[12:03] the cross they left. They still didn't

[12:06] understand. So how did we go from that

[12:09] to all these men saying this is my

[12:11] life's mission now I have to write this

[12:13] down and write it down well. So we go

[12:15] through that period you know the first

[12:17] 20 30 years after Jesus it was all by

[12:20] word of mouth. People back then didn't

[12:22] value the written word as much as they

[12:24] did I need to hear it from the mouth. I

[12:26] need to hear one of the apostles telling

[12:28] these stories. Then they tell their

[12:30] children and their children. And

[12:32] suddenly what happened was the apostles

[12:34] were dying off and persecution was

[12:37] starting to come in. King Herod was

[12:40] driving the Jews and the Christians out

[12:41] of Judea. Uhoh, we've got to write this

[12:44] stuff down because we don't have the

[12:46] firsthand accounts anymore. So, how did

[12:48] we get from storytelling to writing it

[12:52] down to having this entire collection

[12:54] that we call the New Testament?

[12:57] >> Yeah. And and that I mean I think this

[12:58] is one of the big points too of debate

[13:01] or or questioning because people just

[13:03] don't know. And so you'll have a lot of

[13:05] secularists and atheists. They'll

[13:06] they'll say well you know the Bible

[13:08] they'll say that the books were not

[13:10] codified early on that the book you know

[13:12] there's all these claims about the

[13:13] Bible. But you've spent time obviously

[13:15] creating an amazing documentary on this.

[13:17] You've looked at this. What surprised

[13:18] you the most about how the New Testament

[13:20] was compiled?

[13:22] >> We have an amazing gift when it comes to

[13:25] knowing about this era. We have an

[13:27] amazing gift called the church fathers.

[13:29] These Christian leaders who were one

[13:30] generation or even two removed from the

[13:32] apostles. Some of them were even the

[13:34] direct students of the apostle John. So

[13:36] they heard everything from the horse's

[13:39] mouth as you would say. So the things

[13:41] that surprise me are just fun little

[13:43] stories. You know we know Matthew, Mark,

[13:44] and Luke were written about in the

[13:46] AD60s. We know that the Gospel of John

[13:49] was written 30 years later in the '9s.

[13:52] So why did that come later? and why did

[13:55] the Apostle John having the first three

[13:59] read those and say, "Ah, I still feel

[14:01] like I need to write another one." So,

[14:03] we explore little things like that. It

[14:05] kind of made me laugh when I heard The

[14:06] Reason. You'll have to watch the film to

[14:08] see it. But it was a little passive

[14:10] aggressive almost. [laughter]

[14:13] >> I loved it though, like, ah, okay, they

[14:15] did okay, but I need to add some things.

[14:17] So,

[14:18] >> I love that.

[14:19] >> Yeah. But thanks thanks to the church

[14:20] fathers, we get these cool little

[14:22] stories.

[14:23] >> Well, I love that. And and this film

[14:25] comes to theaters November 2nd, 3rd, and

[14:28] 5th. It's a Fathom event, and it's super

[14:32] exciting. I I'm so excited for Oracles

[14:34] of God, the story of the New Testament.

[14:37] Aaron, I appreciate your time today.

[14:39] >> Thanks, Billy. I appreciate it.

[14:43] >> Oracles of God hits theaters November

[14:45] 2nd, 3rd, and 5th. You can go to

[14:47] cbnfilms.com

[14:48] for tickets and more information. We'll

[14:51] be right back in just a moment with more

[14:53] news makers.

[15:02] Welcome back to Newsmakers on the CBN

[15:04] News Channel. For our final segment,

[15:06] Christian photographer Chelsea Nelson.

[15:08] She is joining us alongside her

[15:10] attorney, Brian Nihart, and they're

[15:12] going to talk about a major religious

[15:14] liberty battle that they just won. Let's

[15:16] welcome them both here to Newsmakers.

[15:18] [music]

[15:21] So Chelsea, let's just dig right into

[15:23] this. You filed a lawsuit against

[15:25] Louisville Jefferson County in 2019

[15:28] and tell us a little bit about what led

[15:31] to that lawsuit.

[15:32] >> Yeah. Well, I was a a young mom trying

[15:35] to figure out a business that I could do

[15:37] to have flexibility, raise a family,

[15:40] have a, you know, a creative outlet. And

[15:42] obviously I'm a Christian so that

[15:44] impacts every aspect of my life. Not

[15:47] just on Sunday morning when I'm at

[15:48] church, right? Absolutely everything.

[15:50] And I was concerned about if I am going

[15:55] to do this, I'm going to do it in a way

[15:56] that's consistent with my faith. Is that

[15:59] going to get me in trouble? [laughter]

[16:00] You know, just trying to be wise and

[16:02] discerning looking forward as I grow

[16:04] that's become maybe more wellknown. Do I

[16:06] have anything to worry about? And I

[16:07] became aware of this ordinance in

[16:10] Louisville. um and was really concerned

[16:13] that I might be under, you know, $10,000

[16:17] fines at any moment for being, you know,

[16:19] reported if I were just simply open

[16:21] about what messages I'm willing to

[16:22] celebrate. You know, marriage between a

[16:25] man and a woman for a lifetime only and

[16:27] nothing outside of that. So, that's

[16:29] really what brought me to this whole 6y

[16:32] year long litigation journey.

[16:35] >> You have this law, this regulation,

[16:37] you're trying to operate your business

[16:38] as a Christian. you're fearful about

[16:41] what you say and what you do. Did you

[16:43] hit a point where where you thought or

[16:44] you did experience that sort of

[16:46] retribution?

[16:47] >> Uh, so what I the way that I approached

[16:50] it is that I hadn't received a direct

[16:53] threat yet, but I knew that it was

[16:56] likely, especially because I'm not quiet

[16:58] about my faith. I'm outspoken about it.

[17:01] I celebrate it. And so, um, anyone who

[17:04] knew about me and my business hopefully

[17:06] would attach my faith to it. It wasn't

[17:08] just going to be like a sub item to my

[17:10] business. And so what I decided to do

[17:13] was proactively

[17:15] seek clarification, just be like, "This

[17:17] is exactly what I would like to put on

[17:19] my website so everyone knows where I

[17:21] stand and what I believe. Can I do

[17:23] that?" And ultimately, they came back

[17:25] essentially and said, "No, you you can't

[17:27] do that. In fact, you can't even talk to

[17:29] clients like in a client meeting at

[17:31] Starbucks about, oh, well, I can

[17:33] celebrate this message, but not that,

[17:36] and here's why. Well, and and I mean by

[17:39] having it on your website, it

[17:41] essentially doesn't waste your time. It

[17:42] doesn't waste other people's time.

[17:44] You're putting it out there. This is

[17:45] what I represent. This is who I am. And

[17:47] you know, you're welcome to go somewhere

[17:48] else if you don't like that, right? I

[17:50] mean, it actually helps everybody

[17:52] instead of being in the awkward

[17:53] conversation where you're now telling

[17:55] somebody no once they've come to you. Uh

[17:58] Brian, can you take us through help us

[18:01] understand what this particular

[18:03] regulation says so that we understand,

[18:06] you know, just sort of like the legal

[18:07] aspects around it and what concerned you

[18:09] most about it?

[18:11] >> Sure. Well, the fundamental premise of

[18:13] Chelsea's lawsuit is that uh the

[18:15] government can't force Americans to say

[18:17] something they don't believe. And

[18:19] Louisville passed a law uh that it

[18:22] interpreted to require Chelsea to create

[18:25] photographs and blogs celebrating a view

[18:27] of marriage that she that contradicted

[18:29] her faith. And the law had two different

[18:31] features. One, it compelled her to

[18:33] create speech that violated her beliefs.

[18:35] But as you mentioned, it also prohibited

[18:38] her from even putting on her own

[18:40] website, "This is my Christian beliefs.

[18:42] This is what I believe about marriage,

[18:44] and I only create photographs and blogs

[18:46] consistent with that belief." And

[18:48] Louisville said that both of those

[18:50] things uh declining to create a message

[18:52] about marriage that violates her beliefs

[18:53] or even explaining that belief publicly

[18:56] uh would violate its law. And I'll I'll

[18:58] just note this is a case similar to a

[19:00] Supreme Court case that was announced in

[19:02] 2023 creative versus Elenus. There are

[19:05] laws like Louisville's across the

[19:07] country that compelled uh artists to

[19:10] create artwork that violated their

[19:11] religious beliefs. And in 2023, the

[19:14] Supreme Court said that those laws uh

[19:16] when they're used to com when they're

[19:17] applied to speech violate the first

[19:19] amendment and and Judge Beaton and

[19:21] Chelsea's case follow that binding

[19:22] precedent and reach the result he did

[19:24] here.

[19:26] >> Chelsea, you know, coming back to you as

[19:27] we as we close here, what's your message

[19:29] to other Christians who may find

[19:31] themselves in similar battles? Maybe

[19:33] they're afraid to fight the battle.

[19:34] Maybe they feel trapped. What would you

[19:36] say to them after six years of of

[19:38] fighting for this?

[19:39] Yeah, I would say um start with daily

[19:42] faithfulness in your life, in your

[19:44] family. Um standing up in a broader

[19:47] context with you know news headlines or

[19:49] whatever that all starts with being

[19:51] faithful to the Lord and your family,

[19:53] how you how you treat your spouse, how

[19:55] you're being faithful in parenting your

[19:56] children, you know, interacting with

[19:58] your community. um if you're a high

[20:01] schooler on, you know, on your

[20:02] basketball team and you're feeling

[20:04] pressure about being a Christian, you

[20:05] know, standing up for your beliefs in a

[20:07] loving way and the Lord uses all of

[20:09] those experiences to prepare you for the

[20:12] good works that he has for you and that

[20:14] the Lord's redemptive plan is going off

[20:16] without a hitch at all times and that

[20:19] he's going to use everything in your

[20:20] life to help you build perseverance and

[20:23] character. And that honoring the Lord

[20:25] even when it's difficult, even when

[20:27] there is a personal cost to it, to have

[20:30] an eternal mindset. [clears throat] Is

[20:32] the Lord going to say, "Well done." When

[20:35] you see him face to face, are you going

[20:37] to be

[20:39] feeling ashamed or regretful at the end

[20:41] of your life for not standing up for

[20:43] your faith? I would say do that no

[20:45] matter what the cultural winds are at

[20:47] the time and surround yourself with

[20:49] strong believers who are going to hold

[20:50] you accountable to that.

[20:52] >> All right, final question. Chelsea, for

[20:54] you, will you continue fighting this if

[20:56] there is an appeal? Let's say they

[20:57] decide to continue their their battle

[20:59] against you on this.

[21:01] >> Absolutely. [laughter]

[21:02] W without a doubt. No. Um this is this

[21:05] is a ride-or- die situation for me. Um I

[21:08] want to honor the Lord in this area. I

[21:10] want to protect free speech for

[21:11] everyone. And I'm grateful that the

[21:13] Lord's used this case in so many ways.

[21:16] Even though it's taken a lot longer than

[21:18] I ever would have anticipated, I'm

[21:20] hopeful that we can take the win and

[21:22] move on and turn the page.

[21:24] >> Well, I want to thank you both for

[21:26] coming on, breaking this down. It's an

[21:28] important story and appreciate your

[21:30] courage in standing up the way that you

[21:32] have. Thanks for joining me.

[21:34] >> Thank you so much.

[21:37] >> Let's continue to pray that the First

[21:38] Amendment victories we are seeing here

[21:40] in America will continue. [music]

[21:42] We'll be right back in just a moment

[21:44] with more of the show.

[21:52] That's all for Newsmakers. Thank you for

[21:54] watching and be sure to head on over to

[21:55] the CBN News YouTube [music] channel.

[21:58] That's where you'll find the full

[21:59] interviews you saw on today's episode.

[22:01] You can also check out our documentary

[22:03] investigating the supernatural miracles.

[22:06] We traveled America documenting some of

[22:08] the most incredible miracle claims. You

[22:11] can watch that at cbn.com/supnatural.

[22:16] As [music] for this show, we'll see you

[22:17] back here again next week.