Pope Blesses Ice, Catholics Debate Death Penalty, and Charlie’s Search for Truth

[00:00] stand in our way and our golden age has

[00:02] just begun.

[00:03] >> This is Human Events with Jack Poba.

[00:05] >> Now it's time for everyone to understand

[00:08] what America first truly means.

[00:10] >> Welcome to the second American

[00:14] Revolution.

[00:18] >> Hi, Jack Poboic. We are back live here,

[00:21] Phoenix, Arizona.

[00:24] We're in the Charlie Kirk studio and

[00:26] very excited to welcome on my good

[00:29] friend Michael Nolles to the program.

[00:31] Michael, how are you?

[00:33] >> Good to be with you, sir.

[00:35] >> Well, now I originally wanted to get

[00:36] into uh you know, leftist violence to

[00:39] kind of talk about all this, but man, I

[00:41] just saw this clip before before we came

[00:44] to air here and I said, "Wait, we got

[00:46] nulls on today. I feel like we have to

[00:48] discuss this."

[00:49] Did you see that video of Pope Leo at

[00:53] the climate change summit? I guess this

[00:55] like a couple of minutes ago blessing a

[00:57] a Now, now it wouldn't be the first time

[00:59] that, you know, priests bless water all

[01:02] the time, holy water. You know, it's

[01:03] it's in every church. Yeah.

[01:04] >> But he he went a step further and he

[01:07] blessed a a block of ice in a sign

[01:10] towards fighting

[01:12] >> climate change. Do I have that right? I

[01:14] was sitting here, Jack, waiting for your

[01:16] maleifluous voice and listening to you

[01:18] refer to me as a downgrade over Tim

[01:20] Pool. That's fine. We'll talk about it

[01:21] later. And I saw your tweet come up and

[01:24] and you said, you know, Christians being

[01:27] uh you know, mowed down by communists,

[01:30] churches burned around the world, and

[01:31] then then you just posted the picture of

[01:34] the the ice blessing. And again, I look,

[01:36] it's not for me to judge the pope, and

[01:38] it's good to be a steward of the

[01:39] environment. And I think that's all

[01:40] really good stuff. And we've seen a lot

[01:42] of uh really wonderful signs out of this

[01:45] pontificate from the conclave up until

[01:47] the present. But there have been a

[01:50] couple of headlines this week that have

[01:51] raised the eyebrows. One, I guess the uh

[01:54] focus on climate change when there would

[01:56] appear to be more pressing problems. And

[01:58] then also uh this this scandal of a

[02:01] Democrat senator who's giddy for

[02:03] slaughtering babies potentially

[02:05] receiving a an honor from the arch dasis

[02:08] of Chicago, Cardinal Bla1 Supic. Uh

[02:11] thankfully the senator Dick Durban is is

[02:13] no longer going to accept that and but

[02:15] then the the pope weighing in and saying

[02:17] you can't support the death penalty and

[02:18] be pro-life and it it was just a in and

[02:22] otherwise clear pontificate. It was a

[02:24] little confusing. It's been a snapback

[02:26] and and I got to say, you know, it was

[02:29] it was stuff like this and, you know,

[02:31] people were in, you know, in the in the

[02:33] wake of Charlie's murder, there was this

[02:34] sort of like question that, you know,

[02:36] was Charlie being open to Catholicism

[02:37] and there's some pictures of him at, you

[02:39] know, the Basilica, the National

[02:40] Basilica, which is gorgeous, or, you

[02:42] know, attending church with with Erica.

[02:44] And it's like, you know, you know, was

[02:46] it was he Catholic curious at times?

[02:48] Sure, of course. But he, you know, he

[02:49] hadn't started, you know, RCIA or

[02:50] anything like that. But but I remember

[02:52] talking with him about it and he would

[02:54] and he would always come back to stuff

[02:56] like this that would always be a huge

[02:59] stumbling block not just for him but

[03:01] also for I think a lot of people who are

[03:03] looking at Catholicism saying whoa wait

[03:05] a minute you know this just doesn't seem

[03:07] to meet the moment and and that's what I

[03:09] just tweeted. I said you know there are

[03:10] churches being burned. Uh there are

[03:12] children being shot. There are are

[03:15] Christians who are very publicly

[03:16] Christian uh being murdered. and and I

[03:18] just I just don't know if the block of

[03:20] ice is the is the right optics for you

[03:22] know a cooling down I suppose for the

[03:25] moment right now but I did want to ask

[03:27] you also about his uh about his

[03:30] statement on the death penalty

[03:31] specifically he also mentioned uh

[03:33] borders and migration but he said you

[03:36] can't be pro-life and pro death penalty

[03:40] and you know here I am and having seen

[03:43] one of my best friends murdered on live

[03:45] TV and completely support the death

[03:48] penalty being the sentence in this case

[03:51] for an entire litany of reasons. Uh

[03:54] Nolles, you know what's going on here

[03:56] when I hear the head of our church

[03:59] saying that I can't be pro-life and

[04:01] support that? Yes, this has been a

[04:04] strange development in recent years

[04:06] because for the entire history of the

[04:09] church up until at least Benedict the

[04:11] 16th uh the church defended the death

[04:14] penalty around the time of John Paul II

[04:17] uh there were these credential arguments

[04:19] made against the death penalty. So to

[04:21] say the death penalty in principle is

[04:23] fine but in practice today it should not

[04:25] be carried out because we have other

[04:26] ways of dealing with criminals. uh

[04:28] Benedict the 16th advanced that line

[04:30] though Benedict the 16th did say that

[04:32] that Catholics uh with reasonable minds

[04:34] could disagree on that issue and then it

[04:36] was really Pope Francis who came out and

[04:38] he said that the the death penalty is

[04:41] morally inadmissible now he didn't say

[04:43] intrinsically evil because that would

[04:45] contradict 2,000 years of magisterial

[04:47] teaching me many popes some of whom

[04:49] carried out the death penalty saints

[04:51] doctors of the church so scripture of

[04:53] course uh so it couldn't couldn't be

[04:54] that but but anyway this this seems to

[04:56] have developed and I guess my response

[04:57] respon to to that would be, okay, sure.

[05:00] Uh, if if we're going to define the the

[05:02] phrase pro-life in its broadest possible

[05:04] term, then I guess that if I kill a

[05:06] bumblebee, I'm not pro-life, right? I

[05:08] guess. But we're drawing distinctions

[05:10] here between innocent and guilty life.

[05:11] We're drawing distinctions between life

[05:13] taken by the civil authority, which does

[05:14] not bear the sword in vain, and life

[05:16] taken by vigilantes, say. And so, okay,

[05:19] fine, then let's just focus in here and

[05:21] get to the real issue. The real issue is

[05:23] that a prince of the church, uh,

[05:25] Cardinal Blae Sup was going to give some

[05:29] kind of lifetime achievement award to a

[05:31] senator who has defended wholesale

[05:34] slaughter of children, which is not just

[05:36] one issue among many, but it pertains to

[05:39] the right to life, which is the

[05:40] fundamental right from which all the

[05:41] other rights spring. So, that's what

[05:43] we're talking about. And I think, okay,

[05:44] if we're just going to semantically

[05:46] overload the phrase pro-life to mean all

[05:49] all manner of things, okay, let's be

[05:50] more specific. Catholics cannot support

[05:53] abortion under any circumstance. Period.

[05:55] When it comes to the death penalty, I I

[05:58] don't know. As a as a matter of

[06:00] principle, I I guess I'm a little bit

[06:02] confused. I know the church's teaching

[06:04] on this cannot really change. So, uh who

[06:07] knows? Maybe it's above my pay grade,

[06:09] but uh Pope Benedict's statement that

[06:11] reasonable minds might disagree

[06:12] credentially strikes me as as being

[06:14] rather reasonable. Well, and you've got

[06:17] the great series on Pope Pas that you've

[06:20] been working on. And you know, Pope Pas

[06:22] the 12th has one of the greatest quotes

[06:26] about this, and I have it in front of

[06:27] me. I'm not going to put you on the spot

[06:29] and and make you recite it. I I imagine

[06:30] you probably could, where he said, "In

[06:32] the case of the death pen," this is not

[06:34] that many popes ago. It's within living

[06:36] memory for a lot of people, and you

[06:37] know, maybe some of the older ones. Uh,

[06:39] in the in the case of the death penalty,

[06:41] the state does not dispose of the

[06:42] person's right to life. Rather, public

[06:45] authority limits itself to the depriving

[06:48] of the offender of the good of life in

[06:51] expataciation for his guilt after he

[06:55] through his crime deprived himself of

[06:58] his own right to life. And man, I'm just

[07:03] like, can we get Pope's back that talked

[07:05] like that? That's like you could do an

[07:08] hourong, you know, meditation on every

[07:12] word of that phrase. You mentioned Pas

[07:14] 12th. His predecessor Pius the 9th is

[07:16] beatatified on his way to canonization

[07:18] as a saint. And he not only defended the

[07:21] death penalty, but actually carried it

[07:22] out about 500 times in the papal states.

[07:24] He was asked for a reprieve for the last

[07:26] one in the papal states. He said, "I

[07:28] cannot give you a reprieve and I do not

[07:30] want to." So I don't I don't know. Maybe

[07:32] that'll come up in the canonization

[07:33] process. I think that what what some

[07:35] people have a little trouble

[07:36] understanding in the secular world in

[07:38] modernity is is why one would defend the

[07:41] death penalty. and they think it's

[07:42] because we're bloodthirsty and mean or

[07:44] something like that. We don't value

[07:45] human dignity. But it's actually the

[07:47] opposite because the defense of the

[07:48] death penalty goes all the way back to

[07:50] the book of Genesis, the early chapters

[07:52] of Genesis, which say, "Whosoever sheds

[07:54] the the blood of man, by man shall his

[07:57] blood be shed, for man is made in the

[07:59] image and likeness of God." So it's

[08:01] actually that the death penalty is

[08:02] defended precisely because of human

[08:05] dignity. And St. Paul reaffirms this

[08:07] when he says that the civil authority

[08:09] does not bear the sword in vain. I'm not

[08:11] saying that the pope cannot exercise his

[08:13] teaching role and cannot uh push um

[08:18] credential measures that might

[08:19] circumscribe some of these things. But

[08:21] there is a reason that even a pontiff as

[08:23] liberal as Pope Francis would would not

[08:25] go so far as to say that the death

[08:26] penalty were evil. And so I just think

[08:28] it's not helpful for uh people to

[08:31] mention the death penalty when we're

[08:32] trying to focus on uh the the specific

[08:35] issue of abortion. I think it just

[08:36] distracts from the guilt that someone

[08:38] like Dick Durban feels and the obvious

[08:41] error of judgment from from the Chicago

[08:43] Cardinal Blich.

[08:45] >> Yeah. And I think Dick Durban should

[08:47] absolutely attend church. I think it's

[08:49] December 28th, the feast of the holy

[08:50] innocence. So I I think he should

[08:52] absolutely attend and probably go to go

[08:54] to confession that day and and tried to

[08:57] find some redemption and do a little bit

[08:59] of penance for that. You know, it's it's

[09:01] interesting that um you know, people

[09:02] were asking in the wake of all of this,

[09:04] you know, what was Charlie's opinion on

[09:06] the death penalty? And you know, Charlie

[09:08] actually had a sort of arc on his

[09:11] opinion on the death penalty. We used to

[09:13] be against it because he thought it gave

[09:15] the government too much authority and he

[09:16] said, you know, I I don't remember big

[09:18] gov sucks, right? And what's the most uh

[09:20] you know, the most authoritarian thing

[09:22] that the government could ever do is is

[09:23] execute someone. But you know, he it was

[09:26] through a lot of these teachings and it

[09:27] was actually through reading the Bible

[09:29] when he when he puts out that God

[09:31] himself gives us uh gives the state the

[09:34] authority over and over and over in the

[09:37] Bible, Old Testament and New by the way.

[09:39] Uh that Charlie said, you know what, it

[09:42] it's right here. It's right here in

[09:44] black and white. And he had an absolute,

[09:47] I would say, change of opinion on that

[09:49] through reading the Bible. It wasn't it

[09:51] wasn't through any arguments that you

[09:52] know that we were making from you know

[09:54] American history or British history or

[09:56] you know British common law or anything

[09:57] like that. It really was just from

[09:58] reading the Bible and he would go out in

[10:00] public and talk about this. And so I I I

[10:03] agree completely and and you know when

[10:05] it's you know it I like I liked what Pas

[10:08] the 12 says there. It it is not the

[10:10] state depriving you of your right to

[10:11] life. You have deprived yourself of the

[10:13] right to life because of what you've

[10:15] done. That's incredible.

[10:16] >> Right. And you know on that point with

[10:18] Charlie I I think that's it's indicative

[10:20] of of uh how he behaved and how he

[10:23] thought on so many different issues. So

[10:25] people now they come out they say well

[10:26] what would Charlie have said about this?

[10:28] What would Charlie have believed? What

[10:30] was he going to believe in the future?

[10:31] And look his pals might have some

[10:34] thoughts about that based on private

[10:36] conversation which I I think is unsemly

[10:39] to to reveal generally but uh the real

[10:42] answer is Charlie was such an active

[10:44] mind. He was so curious. He was so

[10:47] concerned with with pursuing the truth

[10:49] even if it meant he was going to rethink

[10:50] some opinion that he had. So the real

[10:52] answer is well one simply cannot say as

[10:55] of today. We just know he was an active

[10:57] mind and he was going to keep pursuing

[10:58] the truth.

[10:59] >> Yeah, that's exactly right. And and by

[11:01] the way I I I've I'm I'm not one of

[11:03] those people who's been sort of like

[11:04] releasing my Charlie texts. Actually, I

[11:06] was looking at a bunch of them and I was

[11:08] saying, "Yep, can't post that. Can't

[11:09] post that. Can't post that." I was like,

[11:10] "I'm just I'm just not going to post any

[11:12] of these." Right. Uh though I have gone

[11:15] through and I've sort of been like

[11:16] making archives of different things just

[11:18] just so I have them.

[11:19] >> Just so I have them. Michael, where can

[11:21] people go? We we are out of time. Thank

[11:23] you so much for joining us. I was wrong.

[11:25] It was an upgrade. It was an absolute

[11:26] upgrade. That was on you. Maya Maya

[11:28] Maya. And uh where can people go to get

[11:32] your latest new series by the way?

[11:35] Because if anyone who wants more on

[11:36] this, they absolutely should watch it.

[11:38] Yes, you can get the Daily Show and

[11:40] everything over at the Daily Wire, the

[11:41] Michael Nol show, but the Pas 12th show,

[11:43] the Pope and the Furer, is available

[11:44] exclusively to Daily Wire members. So,

[11:46] head on over if you want to check it out

[11:48] and uh weigh in on the next pontipical

[11:51] controversy that, you know, who knows,

[11:53] maybe it'll be next week.

[11:56] >> We'll see. Michael Nulls, thanks so much

[11:57] for being on. God bless, brother.