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Tracy Barton Debunks Candace Owens' Lies About Erika Kirk and Charlie Kirk's Assassination
Tracy Barton, a 15-year friend of Erika Kirk, sits down to systematically dismantle the conspiracy theories and falsehoods spread by Candace Owens regarding Charlie Kirk's assassination and his widow. Tracy reveals details from her recent phone conversation with Candace, exposes lies about Tracy's daughter working for Turning Point USA, confirms Erika's whereabouts on the day of the assassination, and addresses conspiracies ranging from Charlie's burial to the Romanian charity work. This firsthand testimony from someone with intimate knowledge of the Kirk family stands as a powerful counter-narrative to months of defamation and speculation.
Setting the Record Straight on Truth and Lies
Truth matters. Not feelings, not hearsay, not tips from anonymous sources, but actual, verifiable truth. Over the past six months, Candace Owens has built a substantial portion of her platform on spreading what amounts to lies and conspiracy theories about Charlie Kirk's assassination. The people bearing the brunt of this campaign have been Charlie's widow, Erika Kirk, and their children, along with those who dare to defend them.
Tracy Barton, a 15-year friend of Erika Kirk, has decided to come forward with the facts. This isn't about silencing anyone or covering anything up. This is about debunking lies with actual evidence from people who have lived experience with the Kirk family, not speculation from a podcaster with a tip line.
Why Tracy Barton Chose to Speak Out
Tracy Barton's decision to speak publicly came from a place of necessity and moral obligation. As she explains, this moment in time demands that people with truth speak out. Having known Erika for 15 years—a friendship that began through Charlie, as nearly all of Erika's friendships did—Tracy possesses intimate knowledge of Erika's character that spans more than a decade.
The breaking point came when Candace went after Tracy's family, specifically her daughter. As Tracy states clearly: "You don't get to have a platform and use it irresponsibly to destroy people. You don't see the damage that you're doing because you're sitting in your studio and you're not on the receiving end of DMs, horrific accusations, and she went after my child."
Tracy's motivation is straightforward: as a believer, she believes in protecting people who are being attacked. When you have truth and the voice to use it, with nothing to hide, it becomes a responsibility to speak up. Candace Owens may not care about real-life consequences, but Tracy does.
The Lie About Tracy's Daughter and Prior Knowledge
One of Candace Owens' most damaging conspiracy theories revolves around Tracy's daughter and an alleged phone conversation that Candace frames as evidence of prior knowledge of Charlie's assassination. The way Candace presents it, Tracy called her daughter the day before or very soon before Charlie was murdered, expressing concerns about her daughter traveling with Charlie and Erika to campus events, implying foreknowledge of danger.
The truth is considerably different. Tracy's daughter does not and has never worked for Turning Point USA. She works for Erika's personal brands: Proclaim Street (the clothing line) and Bible 365 Ministry. During the summer months before Charlie's assassination, there had been discussions about Tracy's daughter potentially taking on additional travel responsibilities with Charlie and Erika, who traveled as a family.
As any parent would, Tracy had conversations with her daughter about this potential new role—discussions about job satisfaction, value, and whether this was the right direction. These conversations happened months before the assassination, not days or hours before. Tracy's concerns were typical parental ones about a daughter's career path and the general volatile nature of the political climate, not specific foreknowledge of an imminent threat.
On the day of Charlie's assassination, Tracy was in her coaching studio with back-to-back clients in Missouri. When the news broke, her phone exploded with messages. Some clients knew Charlie, many were distraught. In the emotional chaos of that day, Tracy had a conversation with a friend where she expressed the natural maternal response: "What if my daughter had been there? What would that have done to her to witness that?"
This normal expression of parental relief and hypothetical fear was taken out of context, plugged into Candace's narrative, and presented as evidence of conspiracy. As Tracy explains, "When something is taken out of context, plugged into a narrative, and then ran out, I can see where people get twisted on this. And it's very manipulative, but there's no context."
Tracy's Phone Conversation With Candace Owens
In a surprising revelation, Tracy discloses that she had an hour-long phone conversation with Candace Owens. After Candace publicly defamed Tracy and her family, Tracy posted a video essentially saying, "Here I am. If you have these questions and you want to know what's going on and you really want the truth by someone who actually has the truth, I'm right here. I have nothing to hide."
Candace did send a direct message, and they spoke last Sunday for an hour. Tracy's intention was simple: to set the record straight about the lies and defamation regarding her family, especially her daughter, because Candace had put people in harm's way with no regard for consequences.
During the conversation, Tracy realized it wasn't really about finding truth. As the call progressed, Candace kept telling Tracy that she didn't know Erika, that Erika was lying at every point, and that Erika never loved Charlie. When Tracy pointed out that she had 15 years of lived experience versus Candace's "perceived information and created content," Candace said, "We are at an impasse."
Tracy believes the call was actually an attempt to come between her and Erika, to drive a wedge in their friendship. At the time of the call, Tracy had no idea that Candace was preparing an exposé documentary targeting Erika.
Perhaps most damning: during the call, Tracy asked Candace directly how she planned to correct the wrongs against Tracy's family. Candace promised she would "instantaneously" put a message out to correct the record. As of the filming of this interview, more than a week later, Candace has done no such thing. She has not kept her word.
Erika's Alibi: She Was With Her Mother
Candace Owens has repeatedly claimed that Erika's "alibi is falling apart," suggesting Erika was not with her mother on the day of Charlie's assassination. This framing itself is problematic—Erika Kirk is not a suspect and doesn't need an alibi. This is about what actually happened versus what didn't happen.
Tracy sets the record completely straight: it is a complete lie that Erika was not with her mother. There is verifiable information that Erika was with her mother at treatment. This includes confirmation from the clinic itself, photos, timestamps, and text messages. It is undeniable.
Tracy emphasizes that people don't realize the depth of Lori's illness (Erika's mother). During Tracy's phone conversation with Candace, Candace tried to push back on this, claiming she knew about the diagnosis and treatment. But Candace even got the location of where Lori had treatment incorrect.
The conversation between Charlie and Erika that morning was about home needing her, her mom needing her, and Erika needing to take care of her mother. That's exactly what Erika did. The clinic can verify it. Text messages back it up. Other people confirm it. This is not speculation—this is documented fact.
The Family Question: Why Didn't Erika's Family Travel With Her?
Another of Candace's conspiracy angles involves questioning why Erika's family didn't accompany her to Utah after Charlie was shot, and why she allegedly "waited over an hour" for Andrew Kolvet on the tarmac before going to the hospital (which didn't happen—Andrew met her at the hospital).
Tracy provides context that Candace conveniently ignores: Erika's mother was extremely ill in Arizona and obviously couldn't travel. Erika's sister lives in Ohio. Her father and his wife are on the west side of Phoenix and are not in the best physical condition to travel on short notice. Erika's cousin, with whom she's close, was not in the immediate vicinity.
When Candace brought this up on their phone call, Tracy's response was logical: Charlie was the one who was assassinated. The Turning Point people say themselves they're like a family. Of course they wanted to go. They were right there and available immediately.
Erika literally stepped out of the clinic, dropped to her knees when she got the news, and went straight to the airport. Father Klein, a dear friend of the family, met her there just to pray for her. God blessed this man—he got on the plane with her without questions. There was a need, there was a crisis, and he responded.
In a crisis, you go with whoever is there. You don't have time to coordinate family members flying in from across the country. The priority was getting to Charlie as quickly as possible while he might still be alive. As Tracy points out, the contradiction in Candace's position is staggering—she finds it suspicious both that Erika allegedly waited (which she didn't) and that family members from across the country weren't on the plane with her.
The Burial Conspiracy
Among the more ghoulish conspiracy theories circulated by Candace and others is the question: Was Charlie even buried? Where is he buried? Why is there no proof?
Tracy confirms unequivocally: Yes, Charlie Kirk was buried. She was there. She witnessed it.
Her response to the conspiracy theorists demanding proof is pointed: "Your entitlement is deafening." Tracy wasn't even invited to the private service initially—she doesn't complain about it. She wishes she hadn't had to be there at all to witness such tragedy.
Erika did everything necessary to protect that burial and the location for her children. Given the climate of the world and the threats the family had faced, this was not just reasonable but necessary. There is a memorial at Turning Point USA headquarters for anyone who wants to pay their respects, but no one is entitled to know where Charlie is buried.
This is a real family with real lives. They deserve the privacy to visit the grave of their husband and father without fear of desecration or harassment. The children especially need to be able to visit their daddy in private. Taking that away from them would be unconscionable.
The Romanian Charity Conspiracy
In one of her more outlandish theories, Candace has suggested that Erika was involved in some kind of child sex trafficking operation through a Romanian charity organization. This lie is particularly vicious because it attacks charitable work designed to help orphans.
Tracy was directly involved in the Romanian Angel Project and can explain exactly what it was: essentially a Toys for Tots type program for orphans in Romania. It was one of several projects under Erika's nonprofit LLC designed to help vulnerable populations.
Erika came to Tracy saying she wanted to help an orphanage and wanted to find out what their actual needs were—not assumptions, but their real needs. They received a list: toothbrushes, games, books, MP3 players, coloring supplies. Simple things.
Multiple families would donate or participate. Tracy and her daughters would go shopping together. Tracy specifically wanted her daughters involved in the experience of helping others, and she trusted Erika's judgment about what causes to support. They would pick items for specific children (boy or girl), and Tracy's daughters would wrap them in specific Christmas wrapping paper.
They would gather at Erika's house where Lori lived, have a wrapping day with everyone present, and pray over the gifts. The packages were then sent with help from the Marines, who facilitated delivery since direct shipping wasn't possible. When the gifts were delivered in Romania, Erika would send back videos so the participating families—and especially the children who had wrapped the gifts—could see the impact of their work. Tracy's kids would see their specific wrapping paper and realize "we did that all the way around the world."
The entire 501(c)(3) was started in memory of one of Erika's friends who died as a teenager. This was always about Erika's heart for helping others.
Tracy's response to the trafficking conspiracy is direct: "Does child trafficking happen? Yes, it happens around the world. It happens here in Phoenix. So if somebody's worried about that, get involved locally." The logic that proximity to Romania or involvement in a charity there somehow implicates someone in trafficking would mean everyone in Atlanta—one of America's biggest trafficking hubs—is a sex trafficker.
Sometimes things aren't that deep. This was a simple Christmas angel program to give back to orphans. No money was exchanged beyond purchasing gifts. It was exactly what it appeared to be.
The Catholic Conspiracy
Candace Owens has become fixated on claiming that Charlie was Catholic or was in the process of converting to Catholicism, taking OCIA (Order of Christian Initiation of Adults) classes. Tracy firmly debunks this.
Charlie was not Catholic. He was not taking classes. He was not enrolled in OCIA. What he did appreciate was the architecture and reverence of Catholic churches. Tracy relates to this personally—her husband is Catholic, her older daughter is Eastern Orthodox Catholic, and Tracy herself loves going to Catholic churches to sit in reverence and tradition. That's literally what it was for Charlie. It's not that deep.
Charlie was crystal clear about his faith foundation. Trying to poke holes in this or claim him for Catholicism is another example of hijacking Charlie's actual message and faith. As Tracy notes, even Charlie's appreciation for certain aspects of Catholic tradition and his agreement that Protestants might have overcorrected regarding Mary doesn't make him Catholic.
The Pattern of Lies and Manipulation
Throughout the conversation, Tracy identifies consistent patterns in how Candace operates. She takes pieces of information out of context, adds implication rather than asking neutral questions, and allows her audience to fill in blanks through "conspiratorial psychosis." She uses phrases like "it's interesting" or "that's weird" to seed doubt without making direct accusations.
When challenged with facts, Candace's response is to claim her sources have told her differently or to dismiss the lived experience of people who actually know Erika. During their phone call, even when Tracy corrected obvious falsehoods—like the claim that Charlie and Erika had an argument the night before his death because they woke their daughter—Candace refused to accept the correction.
The truth about that night: their daughter came into their bedroom (as toddlers do), and because Charlie had an early flight and needed sleep, Erika suggested he go sleep in their daughter's room. Anyone with children knows this is completely normal. But Candace, who apparently has a night nanny, claimed that a toddler shouldn't wake up and therefore the situation proved there was an argument.
Tracy's response to this reveals everything: "Rich elitist night nanny mindset." If Candace can conclude from a child waking up that there was a fight, then Tracy can conclude that if Candace doesn't know three-year-olds wake up at 2:30 in the morning, she obviously isn't getting up with her children.
The Real Damage to Real People
Tracy emphasizes repeatedly that these are real people with real lives facing real consequences. The DMs, the accusations, the attacks—Candace doesn't see or experience any of this from her studio. She creates content that destroys lives and reputations without regard for the collateral damage.
The Kirk children will grow up and ask where their daddy's friends were. They'll ask why people didn't defend their mother. They'll want to know why no one did anything while their family was being attacked. Tracy's message is clear: she won't be someone who stood by and did nothing.
From a biblical perspective, Tracy talks about the reprobate mind, the depraved mind that God gives people over to until it's time to not do that anymore. She believes this is why more people are becoming outspoken—there's a tipping point where people realize the conspiracy has gone too far, that dots are being connected that go nowhere, and that the damage is too extensive to ignore.
What This Revival Was Hijacked From
Tracy makes a powerful point about what was lost in all of this. When Charlie was assassinated, the world experienced a revival. Tracy had clients, young clients, asking her for Bibles, asking her to teach them scripture. She may not be a theologian, but she's on fire for Christ because she knows the world needs him.
That revival was hijacked. Instead of the message of faith and the impact of Charlie's life continuing, the narrative became about conspiracy theories, accusations against his widow, and destruction of everyone associated with the family. The collateral damage includes Erika and everyone who cares about her.
Tracy stepped out to defend Erika's character, and in doing so, inserted herself into this situation. But she has no regrets because as Christians, we are specifically called to care for widows and orphans. The Bible is very clear on this. Standing up for Erika isn't optional for someone who knows the truth—it's a biblical mandate.
Why Is Candace Doing This?
When asked for her assessment of Candace's motivations, Tracy is direct: "I just think she wants to destroy Erika and I think she wants to destroy Turning Point." It may not be more complicated than that. There's also money involved—Candace is making substantial money off these conspiracy podcasts.
When Candace brought up that Turning Point is making money, Tracy's response was perfect: "They should. Charlie paid with his life."
Tracy asked Candace directly during their phone call what her endgame was. Candace claimed it was to find truth. Tracy then asked if Candace possessed the humility to pivot and right the wrong when presented with actual truth and facts. The answer, based on Candace's subsequent actions (or lack thereof), appears to be no.
If someone truly wants truth, they have a responsibility when presented with factual information to correct the record. Candace promised to "instantaneously" put out a message correcting her false statements about Tracy's family. She has not done so. If Candace can't keep her word about something as simple as a corrective post, how can anyone trust her to do anything else?
The Responsibility to Speak Truth
Tracy's message to viewers is about courage. When you know something that is true and factual, you need to logically address it. Don't get sucked into the chaos or the machine, because you will eventually become the machine yourself.
Speaking truth is actually easy because truth stands on its own. There's nothing to hide when you're standing on truth. Tracy is happy to have confrontational conversations with anyone because she stands on that truth and knows that God is all over this conversation.
Most importantly, God knows Erika's heart, and that's really all that matters. It's no one else's job to judge another. If you are a Christian and a believer questioning any of this, Tracy's advice is simple: get back in the word.
A Message About Pattern Recognition
Tracy's professional background gives her particular insight into patterns of behavior. She works with individuals and families and recognizes behavioral patterns quickly. She saw what was happening with Candace Owens and recognized the pattern.
She compares it to the COVID situation, where those who spoke out from day one were called crazy, told they didn't know anything, attacked—until more people started recognizing the pattern and building a counter-narrative. There comes a tipping point where people realize something has gone too far.
The same pattern is emerging here. People are becoming mentally and emotionally exhausted by the conspiracy theories. The dots don't connect. The damage to real people is becoming undeniable. More people like Tracy are speaking up because enough is enough.
Standing on Lived Experience vs. Perceived Authority
One of Tracy's most powerful points is the distinction between Candace's "perceived place of authority on a platform" and Tracy's 15 years of lived experience with Erika Kirk. Candace is a podcaster with a tip line at the end of the day. Tracy is someone who was at Erika and Charlie's wedding, who has been in their home multiple times, who knows their children, who helped Erika create Proclaim Street clothing line, who styled many of the photos that are now being used against Erika as "evidence" she's a gold digger.
Tracy met Charlie the first day Erika met him. She's been there for the entire relationship, marriage, birth of children, and the tragedy of Charlie's death. She was at the private funeral. This isn't speculation or tips from anonymous sources—this is direct, personal knowledge accumulated over a decade and a half.
When someone with that level of knowledge speaks, it carries weight that no amount of conspiracy theorizing can match. Truth backed by lived experience will always triumph over lies backed by nothing but implication and innuendo.
The Children's Future
Both Tracy and the interviewer emphasize a crucial point: the Kirk children will grow up. They will become adults. They will look back and ask where their father's friends were and why they didn't protect their mother. They will ask why people stood by and said nothing while their family was destroyed.
For Tracy, this is partly about her love for Charlie and her friendship with Erika, but it's also about those children. They deserve to grow up knowing that people stood up for their family. They deserve to know that their mother's character was defended by those who actually knew her.
The day will come when those children are old enough to understand what happened. When that day comes, Tracy wants to be able to look them in the eye and say she did something. She won't get to heaven and have the Lord ask her why she did nothing.
A Call for Others to Speak Up
Tracy's bravery in coming forward is significant because fear has kept many people silent. They're afraid of Candace's vindictiveness, afraid of how low she'll go, afraid of her platform and audience. But as Tracy points out, it's a perceived influence and a perceived place of authority. At the end of the day, Candace Owens is a podcaster.
The message is clear: if you have truth, if you have facts, if you have lived experience that counters the lies being spread, you have a responsibility to speak up. Don't let fear of mob mentality or conspiracy theorists keep you silent when you know the truth.
Silence can be interpreted as compliance. But speaking out means you'll be accused of having something to hide. You can't win by those rules, so do what's right anyway. Stand on truth regardless of the consequences.
The Bigger Picture
Tracy emphasizes that while this is about Erika and Charlie today, the implications are much broader. It was about other people before, it'll be about someone else tomorrow. The tactics being used here—psychological warfare, taking things out of context, seeding doubt through implication, building conspiracy narratives, destroying people's reputations and lives without regard for real-world consequences—these tactics affect everyone.
This is about more than one family. It's about a pattern of behavior that needs to be called out and stopped. It's about holding people accountable for the damage they do with their platforms. It's about protecting the truth in a world where lies travel faster and farther than facts.
As Tracy says, the moral inversion in our culture is rampant. What's happening to Erika Kirk is a symptom of a larger sickness in how we consume information and how we treat people who can't defend themselves against those with large platforms.
Video Transcript
What is truth? Is it feelings? Is it tips you heard from other people? Is it just saying whatever you have to say to make the money that you want to make? Candace Owens has made an entire career over the past six months saying her beliefs or her feelings or her tips that most often turn out to be lies in the wake of Charlie Kirk's assassination. No one has felt the brunt of this more than Charlie's widow, Erica Kirk, and his children. I myself have been attacked along with so many others. So, we finally started to decide to, how would Candace put it? Ask questions about the very people that are just asking questions. Now, Candace Owens would have you believe that we're trying to silence her. We're trying to racially profile her. we're trying to uh cover up for something. But we believe in the truth. We believe in debunking the lies with actual facts. Not hearsay, not a tip line. No, the actual people that Candace Owens is singlehandedly ruining lives. This particular lie revolves around a family, a mother, a daughter, and a dear friend to Erica Kirk around a bad feeling. And Candace Owens turns this lie, this tip, this misconception of the truth into prior knowledge of an assassination attempt on Charlie Kirk's life. Ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, I introduce to you Tracy Barton. >> Hi, Tracy. Thanks for being here. >> Of course. >> Before we start because a lot of people are going to see this and they're going to ask this. This is our first time meeting. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. Well, I I haven't promised you any money. I haven't promised you any promotions in a company. We didn't pick our $7,000 checks up at the door. >> I wouldn't take it anyway. >> I I [laughter] Yeah, it takes It would take a lot more than that. No, I'm joking. Uh, okay. So, >> you reached out to me. >> Yes. via Instagram and I and I saw it and at first I admittedly I didn't know who you were. I didn't realize that you were the mom that Candace Owens has been talking about. >> My question to you is this before we begin. This is going to be picked apart. We will be attacked by Candace and her I call them the Canonites. We will be attacked by them for this. >> Yes. >> Why are you here? Why would you put yourself through this? >> Well, first of all, I believe that this is a moment in time to where we have to speak out at this point. It's gone on long enough. Um, I have been a dear friend Erica's for 15 years. And everyone that knows Erica in this circle has been through Charlie. Um, you met Charlie, that's how you met Erica. It's been this. It's been this way. And then I realized that having 15 years of lived experience with her, um, somebody needs to speak out on the character of who Erica is. And Charlie knew exactly who he was marrying. And God knew that Erica would be the woman that she is right now. And so I think when you realize that there is a truth to this and being a believer, I believe that we do protect the people that are being attacked. And I think that it's time that, you know, when you have truth and you realize that you have the voice to use it because there's nothing to hide. And um Candace came after my family as well, you know, and so you don't get to do that. And you and you don't get to have a platform and use it irresponsibly to destroy people. And you don't see the damage that you're doing because you're sitting in your studio and you're not on the receiving end of DMs, horrific accusations, and and she went after my child. Yeah. >> So, you just don't get to do that as as a mother. I don't think anybody would stand by and watch that. >> No, absolutely not. And I would argue that Candace doesn't care. >> Oh, no. Definitely not. >> She doesn't care about who it hurts in real life. She doesn't care about real life consequences. Candace Owens will say, "I didn't do anything wrong because I was simply presenting the facts or the tips as I got it in real time." Which is her defense for cowardice. that that is her defense across the board. I don't want to waste any time. People are here to find out the truth and unfortunately that's where we are. We're at a position where we have to combat lies with the truth. It's the only way. It is the only way. So Candace Owens went on this terror where she said essentially that you called your daughter who works for Erica >> the day before Charlie's or very soon before >> Charlie was murdered at UVU. >> That is what she said. And she has used that as a conspiracy that you had prior knowledge potentially of Charlie's assassination that Erica definitely had prior knowledge of Charlie's potential assassination or she would say I didn't exactly say that but she insinuates right and she has she has affected your family's life. >> So let's set the record straight shall we? >> Absolutely. one, does your daughter in fact work for Erica and how does she work for Erica? >> So, I will go back to how how we got here. Okay. I think I think it would be so people can track this. I think it's more important. So, I posted a video three months after Charlie's assassination um in defense of Erica's character more than anything. I saw what was happening and I just was like, "No." So, I did the video and then a few months after that, you know, it was another video just talking about the climate in the world. I mean, with what I do in this world with working with individuals and families, I see behavior and I see patterns. I recognize patterns really quickly. Um, and so I was watching what was happening with Candace Owens. And so then, um, all of a sudden I [laughter] I'm with my mom and dad in Missouri, by the way. She did get that right. I do live in I was raised in Missouri. Um, and so I was with my parents and people were texting me going, "Are you seeing this? Are you seeing this? Are you see?" I'm like, "You guys, I'm with my mom and dad taking care of my older parents." And so I got on my phone and I was like, interesting. So all I see is photos of myself, photos of my husband, you know, um and she did use great photos, which I'm thankful for that. But it was basically, you know, who who am I? You know, all of the implied um framing that she does, not asking neutral or neutral questions. It's always implication. Who is this person? Well, what does her husband do? All the things. So just a rapid fire. Um, number one, de was raised in Missouri, was raised with horses, definitely not raised wealthy, and the funny thing is is is all my life is out in a book, which been out two years ago, and Erica wrote the forward, which is it's just so ironic that this is all being played out. >> Um, and then my husband is not a border patrol agent. We never lived in Tucson. She says she has paperwork with us uh purchasing a house from 2011. Never did that. >> Um, and we didn't live in Arizona in the mid 80s. M >> so there's all these things that are again in her mind this is what she has and then she will say well I didn't say he was a border patrol I agent I thought he could be cuz he's very military-esque you know yes we work out I didn't own gyms I owned one gym um and none of these things even matter in the whole conversation but what it is is is when you deal with with a conspiracy psychosis you realize that you feed the narrative and then you're able to reframe that into any way you want to. So when that all came out, I was like, "Okay, knowing Candace, she'll be after somebody else, you know, after a couple days. We'll leave it go." >> Then she came back and then she came back again and she then brought my daughter in >> and saying that we had this prior knowledge that you're speaking of, which is absolutely crazy. And so what to address that was basically my daughter, it had been talked about that my daughter was going to start possibly traveling with Charlie and Erica months earlier during the summer. They travel as a family. We had conversations. What did she do? What did your daughter do before that? So, so, so, so they start talking to her about this, but but what was her job? >> Her job is for Proclaim Street, which is the clothing line. >> Erica's brand. Yes. That I actually helped her create. Um, and just, you know, that and then Bible 365 Ministry. >> So, not Turning Point. >> She's never worked for Turning Point. Okay. And so, and and also Candace had said when we did when when I did speak with Candace, so I do want to say this. I reached out to Candace through a video. >> Yeah. You had a conversation with her. >> I I reached out to Candace on a video basically saying, "Here I am." Okay. If you have these questions and you want to know what's going on and you really want the truth by someone who actually has the truth, um, I'm right here. I have nothing to hide. And she did send me a DM. >> And so I did reach back out. We had an hour conversation last week on Sunday. >> So So hold on. I have to I'm sorry. I [laughter] have to stop you. So, what you're saying is Candace Owens defames you, lies about you and your family, and she reaches out to you and you had a conversation with Candace Owens on the phone. That's what you're saying. So, you and Candace Owens have spoken >> on the phone. >> Yes. >> I I'm curious. I'm just guessing here. Was this >> in regards to this hit piece documentary that she's trying to put together for Erica Kirk? Was that your understanding of this? >> So I think after being on the phone with her for an hour I think that I because there was a moment where she said we are at an impass. >> Um which again just from what I do an impass means that we no longer agree. >> So and then we're going to go our separate ways. um and an impass to me whenever you decide to call me. My intention for the phone call was to set the record straight, right, >> about the lies, about the defamation, about all the things that you were saying about my family and especially my daughter because you put people in harm's way with no regard. >> Um and so, but at as the conversation kept going, I realized it was just basically to tell me that I didn't know Erica, that Erica was lying at every single point in time, and that she never loved Charlie. the relationship, all all the things that we believe are opinions. Right. >> Right. >> And so when that happened, when she said, "We're at an impass." I said, "Yeah, we are." Um because you have perceived information and created content. I have a 15-year lived experience with this person, and I know who this person is. >> And so that's when I realized that I truly believe that, and again, this is in in Candace's own words, this is my opinion. Um, I believe that it was just a call to come between Erica and I to try to and I had no idea that this expose was coming up when I took the call for her. Um, it was just like I said to write the wrong. I am a confrontational person when I need to defend and I need to stand up for truth whether it's myself or someone that I care about >> and I don't believe that you I believe like I said it's very irresponsible. >> So So in the in the call you said something very interesting to me. You said Candice said to you she didn't believe that Erica ever loved Charlie. >> Yeah. >> How does that make you feel when you hear something like that from Candace Owens as someone who's known Erica, right, >> for 15 years? So, you've known Erica from the moment she met Charlie all the way through their marriage, their children. >> I remember the first day I met Charlie. >> Yeah, exactly. That that to me is the crazy that it's first time I'm hearing that that that's that Candace Owens truly believes based off your conversation with her. >> Yes. >> That Erica never loved Charlie and it's based off what >> it Well, it's based off a delusion first of all because because again this is all this is the lens that you see things through. >> But you know I was at Erica and Charlie's wedding you know I mean I mean and unfortunately I was at his funeral. I mean the the private funeral. And so I think that when you when you have someone that's outside that is trying to outright destroy someone, they will take any tactic that they can if they believe that it serves their actual narrative and purpose. Wow. >> And that's what I see happening. And and these tactics are such psychological, you know, warfare out in today's world. And that's honestly too, Graham, one of my biggest um reasonings why I wanted to talk about this was it's overarching. It's not just Erica and Charlie. That's Eric and Charlie today. You know, it was you. It was all kinds of people. And >> I'm a pedophile according to Candace. >> I mean, do you understand the boldness that this takes to lie about someone to that type of a degree? I mean, that's where I know it's it's definitely the enemy at work. It's definitely spiritual battles. And the thing is is when Charlie was assassinated, um I can't I still can't wrap my head around it, but when he was assassinated, this world experienced a revival. We had people going for I had clients, young clients asking me for Bibles, asking me, "Hey, T, can you can you teach me this this scripture and I am by no means a theologian, but I am on fire for Christ because I know that the world needs him." And that's the other thing, too, is this was hijacked. >> This was hijacked. And then now you've got this collateral damage of Erica and people that care about Erica. And the reason why I I and again I think I did insert myself in this because I did step out and defend Erica and her character. >> But but but we should like we are supposed to as Christians >> specifically the widows and the orphans like the Bible is very clear on this as you should. And so I respect you for that because very few people right now Yeah. are doing anything to combat Candace Owens because they are afraid, >> right? >> Not of her influence over people because that's what it is. I it is >> Let me correct you though, Graham. It is a perceived influence and a and a perceived place of authority on a platform. Right. >> That's truly what that is. She's a podcaster at the end of the day. >> Exactly right. her her sources inside the government are are bottom GS8 GS9 level employees that don't know anything at that >> but but but to the point that they're afraid of her vindictiveness of how there is no depth too low that Candace Owens will go >> we could talk for three hours but [laughter] but but but let's shift back to >> to to to the point so your daughter >> never worked for Turning Point USA she worked for Erica for Proclaim and Bible 365. Right. >> Okay. At some point, and I want you to be very clear with this, >> at some point, Erica and Charlie start talking to her about perhaps coming along these college campus tours that Charlie does >> and then you had an opinion on that, >> right? >> When what was that opinion? And then when did that conversation actually happen? >> So the So again, she does Bible 365 and Proclaim. She does work down sometimes at the headquarters, you know. So, so she's in the building. She doesn't do anything for the Charlie Kirk show, which is what Candace said that she had proof of that. And none of that's true. >> Her being in the building is proof that she works. >> Exactly. >> So, no, she does not work. And And do they ask her to do something? I don't know. I'm not there every day, but I do know what she did. So, so the conversation came. We're in a very intimate place because we've been in their home. We're with their kids. I mean and all the all the information about you know Erica not giving just crazy stuff not being pregnant this it's so crazy so we have the intimate knowledge right and so we're there we see it and so there was conversation about my daughter starting to travel with those guys never said anything about a campus tour or this was absolutely what this was it was a conversation of traveling >> this happened during the summer which is when Charlie and Erica travel as a family so I didn't have any conversation back and forth with Erica um and so the day that that that the assassination happened. I was in my coaching studio with my clients back to back. And as you can imagine, people knowing my relationship with Erica, my phone going off, conversations, phone calls, text messages, just boom, boom, boom. I had clients that some knew Charlie, some were distraught. I mean, it was just a very emotional day to be completely honest with you. I had an appointment that I canceled u with with my hair person, and then I had a friend of mine that was going to come in and take a book. um I don't know if this is this person or not because again Candace has not produced anything for me at all even though I asked her for it. Um and so the text message or the conversation was that I had prior knowledge. Um and so spinning that which was basically my emotions of oh my gosh what if my daughter would have been there. I didn't know where Eric Go ahead. >> So so no no no I I I don't want to stop you. So okay and just because I know how her audience works. So just to back this up before we go back to that in the summer there were conversations of your daughter potentially like adding to her role andor doing more traveling >> and you didn't even know if it was the campus events in general >> and you expressed some reservations potentially to to to your daughter in the summer. Exactly. >> So not days not weeks before months before. months before reviewing like her job, what she was doing, you know, are you happy? You know, can you be an asset? Are you valuable? Those types of things. Um, it's just how I am as a mom. Okay. Um, and so, and then that was the conversation. And so, it was a what if moment of and like I said, doing what I do, my what if was not just safety for Erica and all of them. I mean, you know, the volatile world that we live in. >> Oh, yeah. >> It's not. >> I've been to those campus stores with >> and I've heard firsthand the threats. I I mean we've talked about those the threats, the kidnapping threats, the all the things that they were living with on a daily basis. >> Um and so yeah, my mind as a mom went I don't want you to I don't want you to go I don't want that to be part of your role is basically what it was. So that day of the emotion, my mind went to what if my daughter would have been there? >> The day when the day when Charlie was murdered. So So we've jumped months ahead of time. Correct. You're at work. You find out about Charlie being murdered and then someone is there that you just are out outwardly saying, "Can you imagine if your daughter had been there?" >> It's just as a mother thinking not only the safety but what would that have done to her to witness that? >> You know, the impact of that, the imprints that that happens on someone's psyche. It was all of the things that my mind just went to that moment of what if. And so, and then even like with um with Erica, I didn't know where Erica was at the time. And so, and then I know Erica was with her mother. And so, and I was not, that was another thing that Candace said on her call. I was not with Erica that day. >> Yeah. >> Um, I was not with her. And so, you know, it's as a mother, you you right away go to worst case scenario. It's no different than if you have a bad feeling about something and your daughter starts to be, well, I don't know if you this is a good job for you. I don't know if this is, you know, what does this job entail? What are these types of things? And so, it became that type of a mental track that I'm like, oh my gosh, what if she would have been there? what she would have seen, what would have happened. And then my mind went through, you know, she's safe, she's good, and and so this person um is basically a friend that I was like, you know, venting to. And so I think that when something is taken out of context, plugged into a narrative, and then ran out, I can see where people get twisted on this. And and it's and it's very manipulative, >> but there's no context. >> Yeah. you know, and and whoever this person is, if this text exists, it, you know, you could have easily said, "Can you clarify this?" Yeah. You know, this was a crazy emotional day for everyone and especially since my family's very involved. >> No, I agree. So, so, so just to be clear, to set the record straight on this one, we got a couple things we got to set straight. >> Your daughter works for Erica's Proclaim uh clothing line and Bible 365. >> She's never worked for Turning Point USA. And this conversation that you had with your daughter on you don't know how you feel about her traveling with Charlie and Erica more happened months in advance. >> Not the day before or days before Charlie was murdered. >> No. No. >> That's a that's a mighty big difference than the narrative that Candace Owens Yeah. >> has been pushing. And and >> and I actually said to Candace on the call, I said, "Mother to mother, you know you're a volatile workplace. you know, this is not my world. >> Yeah. >> You know, I'm not in this world, you know, and that's why again, the conversation, the um concern is being twisted and manipulated. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's powerful. And what I what I specifically want to point out is this. Candace Owens at some point, and for the audience here, Candace Owens got a tip from someone about something and she took that and instead of doing any actual conversations of talking to you >> beforehand, >> beforehand, she just went with it, right? >> Because the the the power of the breadcrumbs, the power of the what if right now, the psychosis of the conspiracy >> is taking over. Let's talk about another one. Candace Owens has been on a tangent that Erica's alibi is falling apart. I want to be very clear. There is no alibi. Erica Kirk is not a suspect in any shape, form or fashion in any way. This is simple truth versus not truth. Events versus things that never happened. I want to be very clear about this. Candace Owens is saying that uh Erica was not with her mother who as I understand it is very sick >> very >> very sick and admittedly you're right my relationship was always more with Charlie respectfully so why would I talk to the wife of my friend I always talk to Charlie >> right >> so I was I wasn't as aware how unwell Erica's mother is >> yes >> Candace Owens has been saying that Erica was not with her mother on the day that Charlie was assassinated. Is that true? Is that not true? >> Complete lie on Candace's part. It is there. There's verifiable information that that her that she was with her mother at treatment. >> Okay. Now, when you say there's verifiable information, what do you mean by that? What What do you mean when you say there's verifiable information? verifiable information from sources, from the clinic, from places like that that can verify that she absolutely was with her mother. There's photos, there's timestamps, I have a text message. It it's it's undeniable. And I think the thing with Candace is is that to say those things, she said on my call that it's verified that Erica was there on the ETH. I'm like, no, she was actually there the morning, the day of, and that was a conversation with her and Charlie that home needs you, your mom needs you, you need to take care of your mother. And so, and that's what Erica has done because to your point, I don't think people realize the the the the depth of Lor's illness. And that was something that Candace kind of pushed back on when we called. She said, "Well, I know she was diagnosed with this and I know they had treatment." Even Candace's place of where Lori had treatment was incorrect. >> Right. >> Um, so there's all these things that that you know, yes, she was with her mother. I was not with Erica that day. >> She was with her mother. It's verifiable from the clinic, from backing up text messages from other people. We know that's where she was. >> So, so, so >> very confident in that. >> So, you know that there is confirmation from the clinic >> that Erica was with her mother on the day that Charlie was assassinated. >> Absolutely. This is this is absolutely like that right there >> tears apart everything that Candace Owens is trying to lie. And I think as we continue I'm kind of taken back by it a little bit. And I and and I would say this like I'm sure that people are going to watch and you're going to say, "Well, where's the evidence? Show us the evidence." Well, I would say this. Call us on it, Candace. We dare you. Call us on it. Let's see what you do. Moving back to the conversation. >> Yes. I >> And I want to drive this home as we continue to de debunk these lies. >> If Candace will boldface lie about these things, then this this goes out to the people that watch her. >> Mhm. >> How can they trust her to be truthful about anything? Well, and I think I think if you look at the timeline of all this stuff from when like I said earlier when there was a revival and she kind of hijacked that movement with trying in in her mind of I'm just seeking truth and asking questions. >> I I gave her truth that she did not want even even there's a video out there about her. She said that Erica and Charlie had an argument the night before. Um and I said that's not true. And she said yes it is because they woke up their daughter. And I said well have you been to their home? How would she Was she in the bedroom? >> Well, that's my point. How would she know? >> And I told her that. I said, "Have you been to their home? Do you understand this? Do you understand how small the home is?" And I said, "Cuz I have. I've been there multiple times." And she said, she said, "Well, I just know that that's not true." And I'm like, "Well, it is true that Charlie, Erica, wanted Charlie to get a good night's sleep and if he walks past his daughter daughter's room, he absolutely would be in the kitchen and could easily wake her up." But the thing that's so crazy about this, Graham, is these are lifestyles that don't matter. You know, I mean, but but it's it's another explosive thing that she thinks she has to incite emotional chaos with people that they then their brain automatically goes to trying to fill in the blanks. This is human behavior 101. And so, you know, she they didn't have an argument. And Erica, I mean, I could have woken up their daughter if I was in the kitchen. You know, I mean, these are the things I think that people people don't they just go, "Oh, there's more. Oh, there's more. Oh, there's more." And human behavior, like I said, our brain will fill in those blanks when you are in this conspiratorial psychosis. >> You absolutely will. >> Candace is framing it the way that I've seen her frame exactly what you're talking about. She frames it as though Charlie woke up their daughter. Uh, and somewhere in between Erica was like, "We'll just go sleep in the daughter's room." Mhm. >> What seems to have really happened is the daughter came into the bedroom, their bed, which is something that happens to 99.8% of parents. >> And everybody who has kids knows that if you've got something important to do that day, you're not sleeping because kids are like bowling pins in the bed. So that's when Erica said, "You go sleep in her room." And because I I believe he had an early flight that next day. Y >> that is a completely different that key little bit of context. Again, >> Candace Owens is leaving that out. Leaving it out. >> But I I I I think leaving it out is what seeds the doubt and the implication for for other people to fill in the blanks. So that and that is her job. You know, even on the video she says these kids are sleep trained. A toddler should be in REM sleep >> because she has she has a night nanny. That's why she I'm saying that she doesn't I've raised kids and I'm a grandmother of two grandsons. So I can tell you right now, >> yes, >> good luck with a toddler. >> I haven't slept in 15 years. >> You're not going to. Trust me, it doesn't get any better. >> I haven't slept in 15 years. And so when I heard her say that, >> it immediately went >> rich elitist night nanny mindset. You know, I I wouldn't doubt that after outside of breastfeeding, and this is my opinion, I Candace Owens probably has a nightmare. She probably >> didn't wake up with I don't know. But if she can conclude that because the daughter woke up, they had a fight. Well, I can conclude if you don't know that three-year-olds wake up at 2:30 in the morning, >> you obviously are not getting up with your children. Uh but >> it's life. >> Yeah. Let's digress back into into some more of these things here. A and and I want to I I want to ask you because to your point, you have 15 years of knowing Erica. Mhm. >> There's another thing that Candace has been pushing where she has been pushing that the day Charlie was murdered. Erica not only didn't have her family go with her, but she also waited for over an hour on Andrew Kovvette before she went to the hospital. Now, one, I would say this. Even if that did happen, which it didn't, but even if it did, >> I don't know why it's this big conspiracy on, you know, maybe she didn't want to face it alone. Like, I don't know what what could have happened, but we know for a fact that Andrew Kovette met her at the hospital. Okay. >> But but but but but talk to me about >> the family part, >> right? >> What is the situation with Erica's family? And maybe you can tell it and maybe that will give better context >> to why she went with Turning Point people down to Utah versus >> her family. Obviously, her mother who is in Arizona is very sick. So, that one that one makes sense, right? >> Does Does Erica have any other family? And where are they where are they located? >> So, her sister's in Ohio. Um, and I think Candace knows all this. Um, she's very close with her cousin who I've not met. Um, I don't know who that is. um I don't know her Erica's cousin. Um her dad and his his wife are way on the west side of Phoenix and also are not in the best physical ability to travel. Um and I think the thing with with because Candace brought this up on on the call with me. She said, "Well, why didn't why didn't this why didn't that?" You know, she brought Turning Point people with her. And again, my mind goes too, this was Charlie that was assassinated. So the Turning Point people, >> they say themselves, we're like a family, >> right? you know, so obviously they want to go, right? And so, and I don't have information about that part of it that you guys do about Andrew and all that, but I do know that Erica literally stepped out of the clinic and dropped to her knees >> and was like you like literally like what is going on and went straight to the airport and straight to and then and then Father Klein, which is a very dear friend of their families, he met her there just to to pray for her. And then God blessed this man. He went with her. >> Yeah. Get on the plane. >> Exactly. There was no questions. There was a need. There was a crisis. And I think that the biggest thing is is when you're in a crisis, you you go with whoever's there. Yeah. >> You know, you don't have time to do these kinds of things. And also getting the information of was Charlie still alive. I need to get there as quickly as I can. >> You know, and so so that part of it with the family, I just don't think there was anyone right there that could have gone, right? >> You know what I mean? Well, the reason I bring up the Andrew Kvette waiting for an hour on the tarmac, the reason I bring that up is because Candice frames it as well, that's really that's really weird, right? >> That's weird that she wouldn't go directly to the hospital. She would wait over an hour for Andrew Kovvette, which did not happen. But then she also finds it weird >> that Erica's family that lives across the country, >> right, >> wasn't >> on the plane, went there, >> what was she supposed to do? Was she supposed to wait for a day for them to fly in to Arizona and then they all fly together to Utah? The contradict the contradiction there >> is it's staggering. And I think Candace is getting to a point where >> she has lied so much. She has misinterpreted intentionally so many things that she can't keep straight with her own hypocrisy. Well, and she takes the human aspect out of all the stories as well because I mean, if you're in a crisis in that moment, the people that show up for you that are right there within reach, you're going to go in that moment for support. And I think that that's something that is not criminal. You know, I mean, Candace kept saying, "It's weird. It's weird. It's weird." And I'm like, weird doesn't equal criminal, number one. And weird just means different. And so maybe you would have a different way of handling a crisis. We don't know we weren't there. Yeah. Yeah. >> Um I don't believe in judging someone else how they handle something cuz I don't know what you would do in that moment. I can't imagine hearing that conversation. Um and so I think there's also a level of complete disregard for the human part of this conversation. And these are real people with real lives. Correct. >> And there's and there's real repercussions for people. >> And that's where you know my heart is in this whole conversation is the fact that you don't get to do damage to people and can continue this. There's a repbate mind in here from a biblical standpoint. There is the whole depraved mind which from my from my experience w in prayer is the fact that God will give you over to that until it's time to not do that anymore. >> And I truly believe that that's why these conversations are people becoming more out more outspoken about this is wrong, this is crazy. It's gets it gets it reminds me of um and I said this before of the whole COVID mindset to where those of us that spoke out from day one were crazy. we were you don't know anything you're this and then all the people started to take the narrative and build the narrative. Um which is a pattern like I said there's pattern recognition in here in these kinds of human behavior. Um and so then there comes a point in time to at a tipping point to where people are realizing yeah this is getting a little crazy. >> We're reaching we're trying to connect dots that go nowhere. We're trying to do these things and then people are mentally exhausted, emotionally exhausted. You've done so much damage to people until people have said we've had enough. Right. And then you get the more people like yourself um and you've been speaking out for a while and that's why I reached out to you was the fact that this has to stop and and there comes a point in time to where you need to step in. >> Yeah. Well, I think the argument can be made. Candace has made a career out of saying, "Well, that's just weird. Yes. That doesn't make any sense. You know, normal people wouldn't behave this way." >> Yeah. Well, I would argue that six months worth of daily content uh doing what she's doing is not a normal Charlie's bestest friend in the entire world. >> No. >> Would ever behave in such a way. >> And you know, >> I wasn't Charlie's closest friend, but I owe everything I have to Charlie. And I truly believe that Cand what Candace is doing, if it had been anybody else that had been murdered and Candace was doing this to their their wife or their widow and and their children, >> Charlie would be the first one >> to be on the front lines. >> Oh, absolutely. >> Because he was the only other person with a megaphone big enough to take her on. >> Right. Well, well, there's a point in time to where you honor and you have integrity and it has to it has to overcome the world's conversation. Our culture is so inverted right now. Moral inversion is rampant. And that's what I believe this is. It's like, you know, when you say something about someone, you need to look in the mirror. You know, the accusations, the lies, the all the thing, you know, and then and then Candace also mentioned, you know, there's no way that Erica could have done all these businesses that she's done and these LLC's and all this other kind of stuff. And I'm like, do you know the mind of an entrepreneur? >> I have I have multiple LLC's. >> I have. I have. I've been an entrepreneur all my life. I have many, you know. And then she did ask me how I met Erica. >> It's amazing to me the things that she says. >> Yes. >> That she she tries to come across as very knowledgeable about, but even a statement like that with like the multiple LLC's and all this stuff. You can pay Legal Zoom to file do your do your state filings and stuff for you and you never have to touch a button. That's a thing. Yes. And she tries to act like she's this expert on things, but then she says things like that and it makes you wonder, do you have any idea what you're talking about? >> Well, that's why I said that a p a perceived place of authority. That's why I said that because people do listen to her and and you just said multiple LLC's. I have multiple LLC's. I've had multiple businesses and brands and and so when you realize that that is Erica um she she questioned her degrees and what she does and I'm like Erica is a brilliant young woman and in any other situation years ago without a Candace in this people would be very um much in admiration of the way that Erica has handled herself of the way that she's stepped in it's a biblical virtuous woman that steps in to continues her husband's legacy. >> Absolutely. And so when you look at this from that from that standpoint and you realize she she built brands, she lived in New York, she continued with brands, she met Charlie, her life changed, which is what we talk about, become a wife, become a mother. I mean, I I literally am the same exact way. I had my business. I took off 18 years to raise my children and then I'm back in the game again. And but everything has been a continuation of my character to have that depth to it. and and Erica is the same exact way. And so all these multiple brands that she's talking about and questioning everything, if you understand the entrepreneurial mindset and the integration that Erica had, even like if you look at Proclaim for instance, you know, um she had the ideas, she wanted to do it. It was an amazing thing. It was buy one give one all the things. She was busy and she kept talking about it and talking about it and I go, "Give me the graphics." So she gave me the graphics. I built the samples and gave them to her for her birthday. I said, "Now go." And then all of the content and all of the context. I've been in fashion for years. And so it's like you you you mentor someone >> that people are now using those those fashion photos against her as if she was some gold digger. Yeah. >> And I styled most the photos. I was there. And so that's that's why I went >> So you were there for these infamous photos. >> Yes. I was there. I was actually there whenever Charlie um proposed to Erica >> because and and and so and again a very privileged intimate place to be to witness these types of things. And so there's so much there that people don't understand. And I don't fault them. And I actually forgive Candace for all of this to be honest with you because I think she's being used. >> You're better. You're you're better than me at this current moment. I I'm not there. >> I think she's being used, you know, and and so um and you know, I think that when someone is being used for evil, you know, again, it's not my place to judge someone. It's my place to amplify the good. >> It's my place to speak truth about someone that I know and that I know is doing great things in the world. >> All right. Another thing that Candace is just fixated on, and I almost feel like she's fixated on it because it's almost like feels like potentially a power trip, like being able to claim Charlie. In fact, I made a I made a video about this and it's the whole Catholic thing. >> Now, again, I got nothing against Catholics. I'm not a Catholic. I'm a Protestant, you know, not because I'm anti-atholic. I'm just not Catholic. I made a video saying it feels like she's trying to pe C it feels like her and other people are trying to claim Charlie, >> right? >> And and I said in my video that I made the only people to get to claim Charlie are his Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, >> Erica, and his children. Like like like that's it. His parents, too. But but I mean he's grown man. He's married with kids. Like it's God, his wife, his children. Was Charlie Catholic? Was Charlie enrolled in OCIA courses and things like that? Like like >> No. And it's funny because on the conversation with Candace and I, she brought up all these things. Um, and I know it was because of my relationship with Eric, I'm sure. Um, he was not taking classes. Um, she said that people told him told her that he just liked the architecture. And so I threw myself into that because my husband's Catholic. My do my older daughter is is Eastern Orthodox Cath Catholic. I love going to the church to sit in it in reverence and tradition. Yes. That's literally and again it's not that deep. That's literally what it was. Um so he was not Catholic. He was not um taking classes. He was doing none of those things, you know. And so I think that whenever you try to and put it in your words, claim something. Again, you're hijacking the actual message of Charlie's faith and questioning where it comes from, what the foundation is. And I think Charlie was crystal clear in that. And so to try to again poke holes in this and hijack this is what Candace is doing in even in this situation which she doesn't get to do that. >> Yeah. I mean you know what it's kind of a natural leadin to the next thing and I hate to even have to talk about it but you know the again the obsession with the Catholicism thing. I don't know if she feels like maybe if she can prove it she gets to claim it or maybe if she can prove it that might upset some donor. Like I have no idea. Yeah. >> And that's the psychosis to your point of this whole thing. >> Correct. >> All of these things that we're talking about, what does it matter? >> Mhm. >> Even Even Okay. Erica apparently had a boyfriend or something before Char. >> Who has it? Well, I haven't had a boyfriend, but but who had Yeah, that'll be the next thing. But like, okay, I dated other women before I married my wife. And my wife dated other men before she married me, right? >> And the whole thing has turned into this whole things that are completely normal >> in life. Even if Charlie did like, hey, I like this part of Catholicism, but I just I can't I can't like I that I like that. uh you know the he said something along the lines of Protestants may have overcorrected with Mary which I also agree with that that that as Protestants we don't give Mary her due enough we don't venerate her enough we don't honor her enough she's kind of important >> very important that I agree with wholeheartedly I love uh the Catholic Church and the adoration that where you can just go and you can just >> and that's what Charlie loves >> and you can just be with the Lord I love those things. Why does it matter? >> I I think just if I looked at this at this from a 30,000 foot view, I think it's just that she methodically wants to try to tear them down and is trying to connect dots. Like I said earlier, they don't connect. So even to the dating part of it, right? I met one of Erica's, you know, um ex-boyfriends. Big deal. You know, I mean, none of this stuff matters. But and that's what this whole expose from what I'm understanding is is she's trying to put this timeline together to where Erica is not this and she's not this and she but there is a consistency of character that people that know Erica um and so none of these things are criminal like I said I mean if Charlie loved to sit in a Catholic church because he loved the reverence and the tradition so I do the same >> lock him up lock him up for [laughter] doing such a thing how dare he >> but I think it's it's it's again it's to seed the doubt it's to seed the implication it's to let somebody then draw their conclusion through their psychosis to come to the other side of this is what actually >> they're hiding things from us. >> Exactly. And and that's the interesting thing in the world today. It's like because I thought about it too. It's like if you don't say anything then silence means compliance. If you do say something and you're coming out ahead of then you have something to hide, you know? So you really can't win. So do what you got to do and do what's right anyway. >> Candace is putting the seed of doubt that if that >> it's not a lie, but if they will lie about Charlie being Catholic, what else will they lie about? Well, the same thing with what we've debunked already. Correct. If Candace will lie about that, >> Mhm. >> what else will Candace lie about? >> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> Another conspiracy that was going around circulated by Candace and many others is was Charlie even buried? What was the burial? Did did the burial actually happen? Why do we not have any proof of any kind that Charlie was buried or where Charlie is buried? Well, and then my response was, "Well, because uh he was just murdered, so if people knew where he was buried, they desecrated his burial, all of his stuff." Can you confirm to the world right now that you know for a fact that Charlie Kirk was buried? >> Yes. Yes. And and my question to that or my statement to that is your entitlement >> Yeah. >> is deafening. >> Yeah. >> You know, because >> I wasn't invited to the private thing. You don't hear me whining about it. >> No. I mean, and and believe me, I wish I wasn't there. Um, and so, you know, when you witness that and then you realize the the climate of the world. >> Yeah. >> Erica did everything she needed to do to protect that and and for her children and >> rightfully so, >> you know, and for her children. I mean, they have a memorial at at TPSA if you ever want to go and give your respects, but you don't you're not entitled. >> You're not. Absolutely. >> You know, and and that's where >> this is a real family, real lives. They deserve to have the privacy to go visit her husband and their dad >> and their daddy >> and people >> like like this is not no like it makes zero sense. >> I mean imagine though Graham imagine someone actually having the mindset that you take that away from Erica and you take that away from the children to basically go in private and to you know honor their their dad. these these kids are forever impacted and Erica has done a beautiful job with building a village, you know, around her children to have the influences that she knows that are important. >> Well, my my message to people watching this is simply this. One day the Kirk children are going to grow up and they're going to ask the question, where were my daddy's friends? Where were my mom's friends? and why didn't you do something? Why didn't you say anything? And that's one reason that I have been so vocal is not only my love for Charlie and go my love for Erica through Charlie. Correct. >> But also for his children. Yes. >> Because the Kirk children are going to grow up. Yes. >> They're going to become adults. >> And Lord help all the people that have turned on their mother and their father. And and I just not me. I'm not getting to heaven. and the Lord looking at me and being like, "Why? Why did you not do anything?" >> I I hate to bring this one up, but but I have to. >> Candace has now gone on this thing >> that Erica is some sex trafficker. >> Yeah. >> With this Romanian charity organization and things like this. And I bring this up because to to my understanding, you were you were involved in this. Can you explain to us in very layman's terms what this charity was because as I understand it it was more of like a toys for tots type thing correct >> than anything else. Can can you just c can you help us debunk this? Erica was involved in this Romanian child sex trafficking scandal. >> It's it's getting so crazy. So, so the Romanian Angel Project was part of one of her um projects underneath her LLC that she has a nonprofit for. >> Uh because it was not just one thing, it was multiple things that she wanted to actually be involved in and help. And so she came to me and she's like, "Hey, I want to do this. There's an orphanage that we can go and we can find out their needs." And and and again, I've said this to people, "Well, don't you think you know what their needs are?" No, I don't. And and I want to make sure that we're getting them something. I don't know how these kids live in Romania. Okay? Okay, I know how kids live in in here and they're entitled, but I mean, you know, I don't they're simple things. It was, you know, toothbrush, games, books, um MP MP3 players, I think, and coloring things or whatever. And it was a list. And so, we got the list. And then families, there's multiple people that would like would donate or would be a part of it. And so, we would go and my daughters would go with me. And the thing for me as a mother was just that I wanted my girls involved in this. And I and I trust Erica explicitly with what she chooses to get behind. and I want my daughters to experience helping someone else, right? And so we would go, we purchase the gifts that were on our list. You would pick either a boy or a girl or whatever it was. And we go and then we intentionally created a like a like kind of like a a a tether, I guess. So I would buy specific Christmas wrapping paper and then my daughters would wrap the paper and then once these gifts were delivered with the help of the military because we couldn't ship direct. >> Yeah. The Marines were involved in this. >> Exactly. Exactly. So, um, and and we packed >> Seems like very verifiable stuff, Candace, but either way, God. >> And so, we we would wrap everything up. We had a day, you know, at at Erica's house where Lori lived. And so, we would wrap everything up. It was a day. Everyone was there. Um, prayed over all the gifts, just wanted it to make an impact. And then they would go, and I never went to Romania. Um, I wish I would have gone to to visit, but I never did. Um, my kids were younger then. And so she would send a video back of this actually being done, which I know she did that because she wanted things to be >> It's on YouTube. I've seen it. Yes. It's like 12 years old video. It's on YouTube. >> It's been there forever. And then my kids, you know, selfishly, my kids would see the video and they would see their Christmas wrapping paper and they were like, "We did that all the way around the world." And so, but you don't get to hijack something so amazing as what this was. And that was Erica's heart. and her 501c3 was started out of the death of one of her friends, right? >> You know, as a teenager. So, so this is her heart, you know what I mean? And so the Romanian angel project is interesting because people interject all the child trafficking, all the sex tra all the things, right? Has nothing to do with what she did. Does it happen around the world? It happens here in Phoenix. >> So, so, so yes, it does. And it's and it's horrific. So, if somebody's worried about that, get involved locally. >> Yeah. You know, every Atlanta is one of the biggest hubs of sex trafficking here in America. So, everyone who lives in Atlanta is a sex trafficker, >> right? Proximity is >> proximity is all these things. And not to downgrade the charity at all. I think that's amazing what it was, >> but >> it's not that deep. >> Correct. Right. Like, you know, the the way it's been thing is this super in-depth, lots of money exchanged and all this other kind of stuff. It sounds like there was no money exchanged. No. And it was just people almost like uh what do they call it at churches where you take the name off the tree? >> Christmas angel. >> Yeah. Christmas angel. Thank you very much. Yeah. It seems very similar to that >> and just that time of the year. And that's what I'm saying. Sometimes things aren't that deep. >> You know what I mean? Sometimes they are they are really simple. Yeah. >> You know, and that's what this was. It was just a simple thing to be able to give back. That was literally it. And those of us that were parents in it, we wanted our kids to see it, you know, and so that's where and the the the conversation of like what you said a minute ago, throwing around the money and all that kind of stuff that muddies the water of what the mission actually was because there was no money, >> right? >> There was nothing in involved in any of this at all. >> Well, Miss Tracy, I appreciate your bravery in all of this, but but but I got I have to I have to ask you a personal opinion question to end this thing out. >> I've reached out to Candace multiple times. text the number I had for her multiple times. Figured, well, maybe she's changed her number. So, I reached out to a mutual friend, Brandon Tatum, and I said, "Brandon, will you give this message to Candace?" >> This was months ago. I was like, I just I need to understand. I just want to understand why she's doing what she's doing. She's never spoken to me. But she's spoken to you. >> So, my question to you is, I don't believe that Candace secretly loved Charlie and all that. I believe that she loved the power that Charlie potentially had. My opinion, >> right? >> I do not believe she actually wants the truth in what happened to Charlie Kirk. I believe Tyler Robinson, my personal belief, should get the death penalty and and his justice is coming. >> Again, my belief, >> why do you think Candace is doing what she's doing after speaking to her? Why why do you think that we are where we are having this conversation right now? >> Um, and again, it's my opinion as well, but observing after the phone call and the behavior, I just think she wants to destroy Erica and I think she wants to destroy Turning Point. Um, I I honestly do I think that it's a combination and it may not even be that deep for her, you know? I mean, there's money involved. She's making a lot of money off these podcasts. And then she brought up, well, Turning Point's making a lot of money. They should. Charlie paid with his life. Yeah. >> So I mean I don't know what her intention is. I asked her what her endgame was and she said to find truth and I said if that's the case do you have the humility and this is my thought to that you possess to pivot and write this wrong. You know because ultimately I believe that if you are in that position and you find out information that is true and factual which is what you say you want. When you have that information in front of you, you have a responsibility then to write the wrong. And so, and I actually asked her that just to to just to throw this in there. I asked her that on on the phone call. How are you going to write the wrong against my family? And she said, "I will instantaneously put a message out." And that didn't happen. >> Whoa. Okay. All right. So, on your phone call >> with Candace, you debunked certain things, >> many things. And she said on the call that that she would like in a week immediately >> instantaneously was the word. >> She said she would instantaneously make a correction. >> And as of the time of this filming, when did you speak to her? >> Last Sunday. >> Last Sunday. So as of the time of this filming, she has not kept her word. >> No. No. And and I and she did say she was not filming this week, you know, and I'm like, well, it doesn't it doesn't take a rocket science to put a message out. >> She said she was going to put a post >> instantaneously. Yes. And the other thing that I addressed to her was about um other people that are doing what she's doing. And the gentleman um Stu Peters >> and he has he has taken her content and included myself in all of his content as well and done all these bashing. And I said, "Your friend Stu is doing the same thing that you are doing." and she said, "Well, he's not my friend, but I would be happy to reach out to you if he's giving you headaches that >> reach out to him." Okay. >> To stop because we realize these are all these are not connecting the way that you want them to connect or her words are tracking. So, I guess I guess my biggest question is if Candace can't keep her word about something as small as putting an expost out to correct something, >> how can we how can the viewers that watch Candace trust her to do anything? >> Well, and especially for I'm I'm a little peeon. [laughter] I'm I'm I'm a nobody. It's it it's just that you you picked the wrong person because I don't believe you get to do this. And so I don't believe that there is a um a core of honesty um to actually write these wrongs and to turn things in the right direction to seek truth if that's what you want. So the instantaneous message didn't come out. It didn't write the wrong. And that's why I reached out to you because I I needed to do this for myself and for Erica >> um and ultimately for Charlie because I think you are degrading Charlie's legacy by doing this to his wife. >> I couldn't agree more. Miss Tracy, I I applaud your bravery. I I I thank you for sitting here with us and and actually doing what Candace claims that she's doing, putting facts to everything, putting truth to everything, actually having these conversations and not having conversations behind closed doors and then telling people their side of the thing. This is you. This is your 15 years of of lived experience with Erica and and you know, God bless you for it. Uh, thank you for standing up for Erica. Thank you for standing up for your friend. But even if she wasn't your friend, thank you for for for being willing to take the blows uh that came before this and will probably come after this. Uh, is there anything that you want to say to the people watching this uh at home? >> You know, I really just think that most people need to have the courage. They need to realize that when you know something that is true and factual, logically address it. Don't go through the chaos. Don't be sucked into the machine because you will become the machine eventually. There's no ways around that. And I think this is really easy to do. I mean, I I appreciate your your words, but it's easy because the truth stands on its own. >> Um, and so there's nothing to hide. I'm happy to have confrontational conversations with anyone. Um, because I stand on that truth and I know that God is all over this conversation and I know that he knows Erica's heart and that's really all that matters. It's no one else's job to judge another. And uh and if you are a Christian and if you are a believer, I think you should get back in the word if you're questioning that. So, thank you for your time. I appreciate it. >> No, absolutely. All right. Well, there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. Instead of he said, she said, rumor mills, tip lines, there you have it. There's the information. There's the other side of the story. Now, it's up to you to decide what you're going to do with it.
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