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Arrest Made in Charlie Kirk Assassination Case: Tyler Robinson Turned In by Family After Utah Valley University Shooting
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Vinnie Politan Breaks Down Tyler Robinson's Confession, DNA Evidence, and Defense Strategy in Charlie Kirk Assassination Case
Vinnie Politan examines the mountain of evidence against Tyler Robinson in the assassination of political activist Charlie Kirk, including a text message confession to his lover Lance Twiggs, DNA on the rifle trigger with odds exceeding one trillion to one, and inscribed ammunition matching materials found in Robinson's home. Despite what some online observers claim about the prosecution's case falling apart, Politan argues this is one of the strongest cases he's seen in decades covering high-profile trials. The defense is raising questions about a second bullet found on another building, witness accounts of multiple people in the suspect's car, and the possibility of DNA transfer, but can these seeds of reasonable doubt overcome a confession, surveillance video, and overwhelming forensic evidence?
A Confession in the Digital Age
In the hours following Charlie Kirk's assassination, prosecutors say Tyler Robinson sent a series of damning text messages to his roommate and lover, Lance Twiggs. These weren't coerced statements in an interrogation room—they were voluntary admissions to the most important person in his life at that moment.
The exchange began at 11 p.m. on September 10th. Robinson texted Twiggs: "Drop what you're doing. Look under your keyboard." When Twiggs responded with confusion and asked, "You weren't the one who did it right," Robinson replied simply: "I am. I'm sorry."
The apology wasn't directed at Charlie Kirk, his wife Erika Kirk, or Kirk's parents—it was to Twiggs, because Robinson knew their relationship was effectively over and there would be consequences. When Twiggs asked why, Robinson explained: "I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be negotiated out."
This wasn't just a confession to the crime. It was also Robinson explaining his motive—silencing what he perceived as Charlie Kirk's hateful message. The text messages continued throughout the night as Robinson attempted to retrieve the rifle he'd hidden in bushes near campus, wrapped in a towel. He described watching for police, worrying about a K9 unit finding it, and eventually giving up. His final message: "Delete this exchange."
The DNA Evidence: One in a Trillion Odds
Caitlyn Oliver, a forensic biologist for the ATF, testified about DNA evidence found throughout the case. The defense tried to suggest the DNA could have been transferred—that if Lance Twiggs touched Robinson and then touched the Dremel tool or other items, Robinson's DNA could appear without him ever handling those objects directly.
But the DNA evidence went far beyond simple presence. On the trigger and trigger guard of the rifle, the DNA profile was at least one trillion times more likely to have come from Tyler Robinson as the major component (along with three unknown individuals) than from four unrelated individuals. The probability of an unrelated individual in the population yielding this level of support was less than one in a trillion.
Similar results appeared on the protected underside of the rifle receiver after disassembly and on a 30-06 cartridge case—both showing Robinson as the major contributor with odds exceeding one trillion to one. Agent Oliver found support for Robinson's DNA on the stock and grips, the butt plate, the bolt, the fore-end, the barrel, and the optical accessory.
Lance Twiggs's DNA was found on the Dremel tool buttons, which the defense suggested was consistent with both men living in the same residence. Robinson's father's DNA appeared on the rifle bolt and other swabs, which defense argued was also expected given the family connection to the weapon.
The Physical Evidence: Inscribed Ammunition
When investigators found the rifle wrapped in a dark towel in the bushes, they discovered four pieces of ammunition with distinctive engravings. One fired cartridge case in the chamber read "Notice bulge" and "OW. Whats?" Three unfired cartridges bore messages: "Hey fascist," "Catch," and directional arrows; "Old Bella Chow Chow Chow"; and "This, you are gay lmao."
These inscriptions weren't random. In Robinson's text messages to Twiggs, he had written: "Remember how I was engraving bullets? Messages are mostly a big meme. If I see notices, uh, Bulge UW on Fox News, I might have a stroke."
At Robinson's home, investigators found a Dremel tool and bits container—the instrument likely used to create these engravings. They also found two boxes of Remington 30-06 ammunition, several 30-06 cartridge cases, and one case with "test shot" engraved on it. The ammunition found at the scene matched the ammunition found at his apartment. The etchings matched the text messages, which matched what Lance Twiggs testified to seeing and hearing.
Surveillance Video Tracking Movement
Prosecutors presented surveillance footage tracking the defendant throughout the day on campus—arriving, leaving, returning multiple times. The video showed him walking in one set of clothes, then walking in another set of clothes. In some footage, he walked normally; in other clips, he walked with what appeared to be a strange stiff leg. The vehicle captured on camera was either Robinson's car or an exact replica driven by someone who looked exactly like him.
Ring camera footage from a neighbor showed a vehicle investigators believe was Robinson's. However, this became one of the defense's focus points when the homeowner, identified as Noble, reported seeing a bald driver with three other people in the car—contradicting the lone-wolf narrative.
Premeditation Revealed
Robinson's text messages didn't just admit to the crime and explain his motive—they also revealed extensive planning. When Twiggs asked how long he'd been planning the attack, Robinson replied: "A bit over a week."
This admission eliminated any potential defense based on diminished capacity or crime of passion. The messages showed Robinson had scouted locations, planned his escape route, arranged a place to hide the rifle and change clothes, and anticipated police response. He described the four-digit serial number on the old rifle he'd taken from his grandfather, modifications that had been made to it, and his hope that it was "registered to some dead guy who gave it to grandpa."
After the shooting, Robinson drove around for hours trying to retrieve the hidden rifle, watching police movements, checking news reports for any mention of the weapon being found. When he finally gave up and drove home—a 3.5-hour journey—he was already preparing for what came next.
The Defense Strategy: Seeds of Reasonable Doubt
The defense called ATF firearms expert Samantha Carer, who testified about an inconclusive result when comparing a bullet jacket fragment (Exhibit 6A) to test fires from the rifle. The fragment showed some microscopic similarities but lacked sufficient quality and quantity of marks to make a definitive identification or exclusion.
Carer explained this could mean there was microscopic similarity insufficient for identification, a lack of observed similarity, or microscopic similarity insufficient for exclusion. She couldn't say which scenario applied. When asked if bullets from different weapons could have similar characteristics, she confirmed this was possible. The defense suggested further testing using 3D visualization technology available at FBI labs but not at the ATF lab that conducted the examination.
This inconclusive result on one piece of ballistic evidence became a focal point for defense arguments about a potential second shooter or alternative explanation.
The Second Bullet Mystery
Perhaps the most significant defense angle emerged around testimony about another bullet found on a different building. When asked about this discovery, an investigator confirmed an unfired bullet had been found on another rooftop but said it wasn't considered a scene worth preserving because it was "accounted for as an ejected cartridge from an officer who had cycled his rifle."
The defense pressed on this point: Which building was it? What type of bullet? Was it a 30-06? Where is that bullet now? The investigator couldn't answer most of these questions, claiming not to recall the specifics.
Defense counsel suggested this either represented sloppy police work or indicated something else happened on that other roof that investigators swept under the rug. For online observers questioning the official narrative, this unexplained bullet became a major talking point.
The Initial Suspect Confusion
The defense also highlighted confusion in the immediate aftermath of the shooting. Within seconds of Charlie Kirk being shot, an officer near Kirk reported having "the shooter" in custody. But this person was in the courtyard area, down by Kirk's tent—not up on the top level where the shot appeared to originate.
One officer testified he heard the shot come from above but was surprised when another officer immediately claimed to have the shooter in custody near Kirk. The defense used this to suggest either investigative sloppiness or tunnel vision that led police to focus on Robinson while ignoring other possibilities.
The Turning Point: Self-Surrender
Robinson ultimately turned himself in rather than waiting for arrest. His own father had recognized the rifle and was convincing him to surrender. Robinson didn't want to subject his family to a SWAT situation. He knew investigators were closing in and the evidence was mounting.
This voluntary surrender, rather than denying involvement or fleeing, suggested Robinson understood the strength of the case against him. He wasn't out there proclaiming innocence or fighting the allegations—he was accepting the inevitable consequences of what he'd done.
A Strong Prosecution Case
Vinnie Politan emphasized this is one of the strongest cases he's seen in decades covering high-profile trials. The prosecution has direct evidence (the confession), circumstantial evidence (surveillance video, location tracking), physical evidence (the rifle, ammunition, Dremel tool), forensic evidence (DNA with trillion-to-one odds), and testimonial evidence (Lance Twiggs, investigators, forensic experts).
Everything fits together coherently. The ammunition at the scene matches ammunition at Robinson's home. The engravings match the text messages. The text messages match what Twiggs testified to. The surveillance video matches Robinson's own description of his movements. The DNA on the trigger, receiver, and cartridge cases points overwhelmingly to Robinson.
Despite online claims that the prosecution's case is "falling apart" or "disintegrating," Politan sees no basis for such assessments. He noted that in every case he's covered, the defense has fought back—they never just concede defeat. But fighting back doesn't mean the prosecution case is weak.
What the Defense Must Overcome
For the defense to succeed, they would need to convince a jury that either the evidence was planted (involving conspiracy among multiple investigators, forensic analysts, and technology companies) or that the evidence, while authentic, points to someone else despite Robinson's own confession.
The DNA transfer theory would require believing that Lance Twiggs somehow got Robinson's DNA on the trigger of the rifle, inside the protected receiver, and on multiple cartridge cases—all in concentrations making Robinson the major contributor. The second shooter theory would require explaining Robinson's confession, his possession of matching ammunition and engraving tools, and his movements captured on surveillance video.
The defense may argue at trial that the inconclusive ballistic result on one fragment, the unexplained second bullet, and the witness account of multiple people in the car all create reasonable doubt. But these are peripheral issues that don't address the core evidence: Robinson's own words admitting he did it and explaining why.
The Online Narrative vs. Courtroom Reality
A notable aspect of this case is the gap between online commentary and courtroom evidence. A significant percentage of online observers—perhaps 20-40% according to Politan—believe there's "something else going on," that Robinson is a "patsy" being framed.
This mirrors dynamics seen in the Karen Read case, where the defense narrative gained substantial public support. The difference here is that in the Read case, the public adopted the defense team's narrative. In the Robinson case, Politan wondered if the defense team might adopt the public's narrative—a reversal of the usual dynamic.
The preliminary hearing revealed the evidence prosecutors will present at trial. The question now is whether the defense will embrace alternative theories circulating online (second shooter, government conspiracy, framing of an innocent man) or pursue a more conventional strategy focused on reasonable doubt around specific evidentiary points.
The Path Forward
Robinson faces charges in the assassination of Charlie Kirk, a prominent political activist, husband, and father. The preliminary hearing demonstrated prosecutors have sufficient evidence to proceed to trial. The defense will have opportunities to present expert testimony challenging the DNA science, ballistic conclusions, and investigative procedures.
But unless they can explain away Robinson's text message confession—his admission that "I am" the one who did it, his explanation that he "had enough of his hatred," his description of planning it "a bit over a week," and his request to "delete this exchange"—the mountain of corroborating physical and forensic evidence will likely prove insurmountable.
As Politan concluded: This is strong evidence. Everything prosecutors would need to prove it. The narrative they've laid out is backed up by physical and testimonial evidence. While the defense is not backing down, and skeptics online question the official account, the courtroom reality presents a different picture than social media speculation might suggest.
Video Transcript
It was a shocking moment. The public
assassination of political activist
husband and father Charlie Kirk. And now
the man prosecutors say is responsible
is in court listening to the evidence
against him. That evidence includes
compelling testimony from his former
roommate and lover, Lance Twigs.
>> And did he talk about what he had done?
>> Uh didn't go into detail. He just I just
asked him in person if what he said was
true the night before and he said it
was.
>> But it's not just his testimony. It's
the text messages he allegedly received
from the defendant.
>> Lance replies, "You weren't the one who
did it right." And Tyler says, "I am.
I'm sorry."
>> Prosecutors have built the case on
direct evidence, circumstantial
evidence, DNA, and surveillance video.
But the defense has still pointed out
some things that they say just don't
make sense.
>> Wasn't there also a bullet found on
another building?
>> I believe an unfired bullet had been
found on another building. My
recollection is that that was accounted
for.
>> And now day five of the preliminary
hearing is revealing more new evidence.
Will it show the defendant is
responsible or that there is more to
this story?
I would want to prosecute this case.
This is strong evidence. Everything that
I would need to prove it. I mean, the
narrative that prosecutors have laid out
is backed up by the physical and
testimonial evidence that they're
presenting. But the defense is not
backing down. And the folks online,
there's a whole bunch that are very
skeptical of the prosecution's case. So,
what exactly does the evidence show? I'm
Vinnie Palletan. Let's investigate.
I cannot say enough times that this is a
strong case. Prosecutors have strong
evidence despite some of the headlines
that I'm looking at online talking about
the prosecution case falling apart,
disintegrating.
Um, not sure where they're coming from
with that. I know where I'm coming from.
I've been covering the nation's highest
profile trials for decades, longer than
anyone on earth here at Court TV. So,
I've seen a lot. I've seen high-profile
cases. I've seen strong cases. I've seen
weak cases. I've seen cases with holes,
cases with this is a strong case. Let's
go through some of what they have.
You've got a confession.
You've got a confession
memorialized in a text message. This is
what we call direct evidence of the
crime. You're not arguing, oh, this is a
purely merely a circumstantial case. No,
this is a case with direct evidence
also. an admission by the defendant
memorialized in a text message.
Prosecutors love that. And it's and it's
not even a confession that was elicited
by law enforcement like some sort of
forced coerced confession. This is a
confession on the day that it happened
in a text message to his lover. There's
also surveillance video. This video
evidence is strong.
You are tracking the defendant all day
long.
when he's arriving on campus, each time
he goes and leaves and goes and leaves,
you've got timestamps. You've got him
walking. You've got him walking in one
set of clothes. You've got him walking
in another set of clothes. You've got
him walking normally. You've got him
walking with this strange stiff leg.
Now, you've either got him on video or
you've got his doppelganger on video.
the doppelganger, who by the way is
driving almost an exact replica or an
exact replica of his car.
So, there's that also. And also the fact
that this defendant turned himself in
like he knew like they were closing in
on him. His own father recognized the
gun. His father's convincing him to turn
himself in. He doesn't want to subject
his family to some SWAT situation. He
knows he's going to be arrested. He
turns himself in.
He knows the strength of the evidence.
He's not out there denying it.
But that's not going to stop the defense
um from fighting. They're going to fight
back. Of course they are. They always
do. Every case I've covered, the defense
has done something. They don't just sit
there and say, "Oh, I guess the evidence
just looks bad. We don't have a case."
No, they have an opening statement. They
have a closing argument, they have a
theory, um they have an approach,
whatever it is, and it's different in
different cases.
Um what's interesting here though is
what will the defense do? Is the defense
going to adopt the public narrative that
is playing with a certain population of
of of the public, whether that
percentage is 20, 30, 40% who think
there's something else going on here,
that this guy's a pathy, will they adopt
that? kind of like what we saw in the
Karen Reed case. The difference with the
Karen Reid case was is that the public
adopted the narrative of the defense
team. Here I'm wondering if the defense
team is going to adopt the narrative of
the public which has been generated um
through social media and other places.
All right, so let's get an idea.
Preliminary hearing, the defense was
able to call some of their own witnesses
and they decided to call a couple of
witnesses from the ATF. So, these are
obviously people who work for the
prosecution and investigation of the
case, but they believe they have
evidence that can help them. So, first
up is uh Caitlyn Oliver, forensic
biologist for the ATF. Let's take a
listen to the defense examination, the
defense direct examination.
None of the testing in any of the three
reports can answer the question of how
and when DNA got deposited. Is that
true?
>> That is true. DNA can't speak to the
activity that led to the deposition of
the DNA. And the report says with regard
to that issue, with the increased
sensitivity of DNA techniques and
sophisticated software, a DNA profile
may be developed even when the
contributor of that DNA never touched
the item or area that was swapped.
Alternatively, a person's DNA may be
present when they were not involved in
the crime. Do you agree with that?
>> Yes. Once again, I cannot speak to the
activity. H how did can you explain how
it's possible that a DNA profile may be
developed even when the contributor of
that DNA never touched the item or area
that was swapped.
>> So it's possible if say the the pen that
you're sitting there using for the week,
you say hand it off to the judge and the
judge um
then touches it for um a period of time
and then I I swab it. It doesn't speak
to who handled it last. I could test
that. I could get both of your profiles.
I wouldn't know which person was the
last person to handle that item.
>> All right. And and similarly, if you had
a lot of DNA on your hand, we shook
hands. I then went to pick up an exhibit
a gun.
I touched the trigger of it. Your d your
DNA could be on that trigger, right?
>> It is possible. Yes.
>> Okay. Hold right there.
>> All right.
Are they going to attack the DNA by
saying it's all transferred?
That someone came in contact with the
defendant and then transferred his DNA
onto everything? Who are they going to
point the finger at? Lance Twigs, his
roommate/lover.
Is that where they're going?
Let's watch.
>> Okay. Even though you never touched the
gun.
>> Yes. And that's why because of those
possibilities, you can't make any
assessment of how or when DNA got
deposited. Correct.
>> Correct.
>> Now, the the second report that you
wrote had to do with
uh a Dremel item that was taken from Mr.
Robinson's home.
>> Correct.
And did
did you um
request certain what are called
elimination samples in regard to items
that were recovered from his home?
>> Yes. So an elimination sample is um a a
sample taken from a known individual
that it may be assumed that they could
have come into contact with it. If I
were to say swab your vehicle, then I
would want your DNA sample as an
elimination to eliminate you in order to
look for any additional DNA that may be
there.
>> And and you say they're they're assumed
contributors because depending upon the
location, for instance, somebody's
house, you would expect if there were
multiple people in that house that
perhaps everybody in the house could
contribute to a certain uh DNA result.
It's possible.
>> So, you'd want you'd want samples from
all those folks
to see if they contributed to an item
that would be associated with a place
where they congregated.
>> Correct.
>> The elimination samples that you
requested in connection with item C's
from Mr. Robinson's apartment were from
Amber Robinson,
Matthew Robinson, and Lance Twigs.
Correct.
>> Correct. And that's because you had
information that those people were
associated with the house.
>> Correct.
>> And when you tested or compared, first
of all, you determined their DNA types,
right?
>> Correct.
>> Then you compared their types to what
you found on the evidence.
>> Correct.
And for a certain number of those
samples,
uh, you found the presence of
DNA
of your elimination samples, not because
they were suspects, but because they
were associated with the premises.
Right.
>> There was support for inclusion of some
of these individuals. Yes.
>> Okay. For instance, item number 1.4,
four,
which was a swab from the rifle.
You used the elimination sample of Mr.
Robinson's father and you found his DNA
on that sw particular swab. Correct.
>> I would say there was support for
inclusion of Matthew Robinson on the
sample obtained from the the swabs of
the bolts of the rifle.
>> I'm glad you pointed that out. That's
again consistent with your other
testimony. You're talking again about
con support for inclusion as a possible
contributor.
>> Correct.
>> Similarly with respect to 1.6,
you found um again Matthew Robinson on
swap number 1.6 or or a profile that
indicated he was a possible contributor.
>> There's support for inclusion of Matthew
Robinson.
>> Okay. You you found support for
inclusion of lance twigs on swabs of
buttons of a Dremel tool. Correct.
>> Correct.
And going back to what we were talking
about before, if a person named Lance
Toys lived in that residence,
came into contact with Tyler Robinson,
and then touched a button on a Dremel
tool, you'd expect Mr. Robinson and Mr.
Twigs's DNA to be on there, right? Or
you could. It's reasonable to assume
that anyone living in the household um
could have contributed to DNA on an
object found in that household.
>> Hold it right there. Like to talk about
two different things here. The defense
is trying to get to the transfer world
while the agent keeps saying, "Well, if
it's in the house, both of them could
touch it." But what the defense is
trying to say is Lance touches
Tyler and then Lance touches the Dremel.
So, he's the one making all the markings
in the cartridges. It's not Tyler. He
never touched it. He just touched Lance,
who then touched the item. That's where
the defense appears to be going in all
this. And at trial, if it goes to trial,
that's what their experts going to talk
about. Let's watch some more.
>> And similarly, you found profiles uh to
suggest support for inclusion of Mr.
twigs on other areas of the Dremel tool.
Correct.
>> Correct.
>> Okay, let's watch the cross- examination
because the defense is just trying to
kind of like lay things out there. Lay
things out there. The defense comes back
to kind of focus the judge.
>> Will you just list off the areas of that
uh firearm where there was support for
evidentary support for inclusion of
Tyler Robinson?
The swabs of the stock and grips of
rifle. The swabs of the butt plate of
rifle. Swabs of the trigger and trigger
guard of rifle with possible rich
detail/smudging.
The swabs of the bolt of the rifle with
possible rich detail/smudging. And the
swabs of the fore end of the rifle.
>> We go to page
uh three.
swabs of the barrel of the rifle with
possible ridge detail/smudging.
The swabs of possible ridge
detail/smudging on the optical
accessory.
>> And page four,
>> the swabs of the protected underside of
the receiver of the rifle after
disassembly.
The swabs of one 300 6 cartridge case.
the swabs of one 3006 cartridge and the
swabs of one 3006 cartridge.
>> I want to ask you about a couple of
those conclusions. Exhibit 1.3, do you
know where that swab was taken from?
>> 1.3 is the swabs of the trigger and
trigger guard of the rifle.
>> What was your conclusion as to uh
the likelihood
ratio that you analyzed in this question
in calculation number three?
For this exhibit, the DNA profile was le
at least one trillion times more likely
if it originated from Tyler Robinson as
the major component and three un unknown
unrelated individuals than if it
originated from four unrelated
individuals.
>> You say at least one trillion times more
likely. So it could be a much higher
number than one trillion. Is that
accurate?
>> It's possible. or
>> the 1.13 is the swabs of the protected
underside of the receiver of the rifle
after disassembly and 2.1 is the swabs
of one 3006 cartridge case.
>> Why do you group these two together?
Exhibits 1.13 and 2.1 in your
conclusions here.
>> They were both mixtures of two
individuals um and they both yielded a
likelihood ratio of the same magnitude.
So they can be grouped together.
>> Okay. What was your conclusion as it
relates to both of these as to the
likelihood ratio?
>> The DNA profiles are at least one
trillion times more likely if they
originated from Tyler Robinson as the
major contributor and an un unknown
unrelated individual than if they
originated from two unknown unrelated
individuals.
>> And did you make a conclusion here as
well about the uh a probability
statistic?
>> Yes. So the probability of an unrelated
individual in the population who has not
contributed DNA to these samples
yielding this level of support. So
meaning yielding this uh likelihood
ratio uh is less than one in a trillion.
>> Less than one in a trillion. It was
someone else's DNA on the trigger. Like
are you kidding me? Are you kidding me?
Okay, but wait there's more. Remember
that's a defense witness. Um, let's take
a look here at an
another firearms expert from the ATF.
Samantha Carer is her name again called
by the defense. Let's watch the direct
end cross.
You concluded here, did you not, that
the exhibit 6A bullet jacket fragment
could not be identified or excluded as
having been fired from the exhibit 1A
based on an agreement of all discernable
class characteristics and neither
sufficient agreement nor sufficient
disagreement of indiv individual
characteristics. The result of the
comparison was inconclusive.
>> Yes,
>> that was your ultimate conclusion,
right?
>> Yes. And on the next page, if you go to
two pages in,
you have an appendix, do you not? Where
you explain what inconclusive means.
Next page. One more.
There we go.
I want to ask you because I'm unclear on
what inconclusive mean. You say reasons
for an inconclusive or include the
presence of microscopic similarity that
is insufficient to form the conclusion
of source identification,
a lack of any observed microscopic
similarity or a microscopic similarity
that is insufficient to form the
conclusion of source exclusion. Could
you specify which of those possibilities
exists in this case? Was this a case
where you had
microscopic dissimilarity, but in your
opinion it was insufficient to form a
conclusion of source exclusion?
>> No, my conclusion is inconclusive. Just
as it says in the appendix, there is a
lack of sufficient agreement and
sufficient disagreement. So, I'm unable
to say one way or another.
>> Okay. Uh but I guess my question is were
there points of dissimilarity
between the question and the known
bullets? Again there was sufficient
agreement and sufficient dis there was
not sufficient agreement or sufficient
disagreement. So yes there was times
that I saw agreement in the striations
in the land and grew impressions also
seeing disagreement but there was also a
lot of lack of microscopic marks of
value to see at all. So because of this
lack of quality and quantity of marks to
be able to see it never reach the
threshold of sufficient agreement nor
sufficient disagreement. So an
identification or exclusion could not be
rendered.
>> Okay. And can you have bullets fired
from different weapons that can have uh
individual characteristics that look
pretty similar?
>> There is occasions, yes, that tool marks
that are made by two separate tools are
similar. Yes.
>> Does this compare?
>> Sounds like they're going to argue there
was a second shooter.
That's what that is. and they'll bring
in an expert to talk about how this is
dissimilar. Trust me, they will. But
looks like they're going with the second
shooter theory. Let's watch some more
comparison show individual
characteristics indicating that it was
fired from the same weapon.
>> There are individual characteristics
present, but without examining it in
person, I don't feel comfortable making
a conclusion.
>> The result of the comparison was
inconclusive.
What could there could further testing
be done to try and see if there is any
uh if you come to a conclusion on this
round?
>> There was no further testing that I
could do. No.
>> Is there further testing that could be
done in the field?
>> There is the possibility of using a 3D
system to visualize the individual
characteristics on the bullet.
>> Do you have the capability of doing that
at your lab?
>> My laboratory currently does not have
that capability.
>> Do you know if the FBI lab does have
that capability? I believe they do.
>> Defense council put up a list of
potential firearms that could have filed
fired this round or this bullet.
>> Is that list comprehensive?
>> It's not an all-inclusive list.
>> There's been some discussion about a
bullet the 6A bullet jacket fragment.
Will you describe what a bullet jacket
is?
>> Yes, I do have a demonstrative. May I
use that?
>> Do you have that with you?
>> Yes. Yes, please go ahead.
So this is a demonstrative of a bullet.
So a bullet jacket, it would refer to
the outside of the bullet. Inside the
bullet would be the lead core. So when
I'm referring to the jacket, it means
that I've only received that outer
portion. I did not receive any of the
lead core intact with it.
>> In this circumstance, you received a
bullet jacket. A bullet jacket fragment.
What does that mean? That it's a
fragment.
>> Fragment means I don't have the entirety
of that jacket.
And can you testify as to why you don't
have that entirety?
>> No, I cannot.
>> And it also, your report also says that
there are four lead fragments. What is
this? Why would you have lead fragments?
>> So the lead fragments, the lead would be
from the inside of the bullet, that
core. Um, occasionally when the bullet
reaches its final destination, it can
split and some of that core might be
pulled off of the jacket and be found
where it landed.
>> And would you be able to gather
information from those lead
fragments that could identify them as
coming from this particular firearm?
Would you expect to be able to make that
comparison?
>> I would not expect to see any
characteristics that would help me reach
a conclusion. Now,
>> why not?
>> Because the leg core is on the inside of
the bullet, the landing grooves are
going to be imparted onto the jacket or
the exterior. So, when it's moving down
the barrel, the inside is not coming
into contact with rifling whatsoever.
>> Okay,
they're going to go somewhere with this.
some experts if this was the only issue.
Okay, maybe you've got something here
because it's inconclusive,
but there's all that other evidence that
prosecutors are going to rely upon.
What you say or text can be used against
you in a court of law. And I think that
is something that the defendant in this
case is learning. In the moments after
and the hours after the shooting of
Charlie Kirk, prosecutors say this
defendant was sending text messages to
his roommate/lover
Lance Twigs. Those text messages perhaps
some of the most compelling evidence in
the case if you trust the evidence,
right? If you don't believe that someone
planted the text messages, if someone
didn't manipulate his phone, but if you
believe that these text messages are
legit, this is compelling evidence.
These are admissions by the defendant
himself, basically a confession. So, I
want to take you inside the courtroom
now for the testimony of agent Brian
Davis going through these text messages
so you can see and hear exactly what I'm
talking about.
What time was that first text sent?
According to the celebrate extraction,
>> uh, the first text was September 10th at
11 p.m. says, "Drop what you're doing.
Look under your keyboard."
>> And I I apologize. Let me stop you
there. How do you know that this that
message would have been from Tyler
Robinson.
>> Uh, that's just So any of the messages
in gray would be from Tyler and messages
in blue would be from uh from Lance.
>> So So read that again starting from look
under the keyboard. Uh so so uh after
that then Lance responds he says what
and then he says you're joking right and
then Tyler says I tried to delete that
and Tyler says I'm still okay my love
but I'm stuck in or for a little while
longer yet shouldn't be long until I can
come home but got to grab my rifle still
to be honest I had hoped to keep this
secret till I died of old age I am sorry
to involve you and then Lance replies
you weren't the one who did it right.
And Tyler says, "I am. I'm sorry."
>> Hold it right there.
>> You weren't the one who did it right. I
am. I'm sorry.
The apology is not to Charlie Kirk,
Erica Kirk, Charlie Kirk's parents. The
apology is to his lover, Lance Twigs,
because at this point, he knows there's
going to be problems. Their relationship
is basically done at this point. It's
done. At this point, I don't think he
thinks he's getting away with it because
it's such a big story and the
investigation is moving quickly. Um, but
that's an admission. That's a
confession.
He's and and it's and it's a stronger
confession than you would have in an
interrogation room with a police officer
who's trying to get a confession from
you.
This is someone confessing to his lover,
to the most important person in his
life.
Why would he be lying? Why would he lie
about that?
I I don't know how the defense could get
around this unless they're going to
argue that somehow someway you shouldn't
trust this evidence. You shouldn't trust
these text messages that these were
planted.
Let's continue to listen.
>> Lance says, "I thought they caught the
person."
And then Tyler says, "No, they grabbed
some crazy old dude and interrogated
someone in similar clothing. I had
planned to grab my rifle from the drop
point shortly after, but most of that
side got side of town got locked down.
It's quiet almost enough to get out, but
there's one vehicle lingering." Uh,
Lance says, "Why?" And Tyler says, "Why
did I do it?" And Lance says, "Yeah."
Tyler says, "I had enough of his hatred.
Some hate can't be negotiated out. If
I'm able to gra to grab my rifle unseen,
I will have left no evidence.
>> That was the motive.
You had a confession to the crime
followed by him explaining why he did
it.
Because of what Charlie Kirk says, his
perception of what Charlie Kirk says. He
believes Charlie Kirk is full of hate.
He believes Charlie Kirk um will never
stop spreading his message. And he
wanted to silence him. He wanted to shut
him down.
And the only way he was going to do it
was by killing him.
That's as clear as day. An admission to
the crime and then explaining why he did
it. not to police, not under an
interrogation light,
but in a text message to his lover, to
the most important person in his life at
that moment.
Again, I don't know how you get around
it. I really don't know how the defense
intends to get around it unless they try
to undermine the the trustworthiness of
the extraction from the cell phone.
and and and you also have these images
these images that were taken. So these
are images from the phone plus you've
got the physical extraction of the phone
that contain the messages as well.
Where are they going? Where all this
evidence was planted. This is then a
very extravagant
frame job involving a lot of different
people.
Is this agent in on it? is Celbrite in
on it, the folks who extracted the
phone, or does someone plant stuff on
his phone? Like, the defense will have
their own opportunity to bring in an
expert who can try to explain that none
of this stuff is trustworthy. We'll see
if they do that.
But if the actual extraction and these
images are trustworthy,
where are you going? He just admitted he
did it. He told and he and he told us
why he did it. Let's continue.
>> Evidence going to attempt to retrieve it
again. Hopefully, they have moved on. I
haven't seen anything in the news about
them finding it. We'll update you
shortly. Or Charlie, we'll update you by
midnight. And then Lance says, "All
right, stay safe. How long have you been
planning this?" And Tyler replies, "A
bit over a week. I believe I can get
close to it, but there is a squad car
parked right by it. I think they already
swept that spot."
>> Time.
Now he's admitting all the premeditation
like I've planned this
over a week I believe
there and now if your if your defense is
going to be like some sort of diminished
capacity or or I don't know a crime of
passion like in the moment he just had
to do it. No, like that's all gone again
if you trust this evidence.
Admitting to the crime, telling us why
he did it, and now telling us that,
yeah, I planned it all. Let's watch some
more.
>> Want to chance it. Uh, this is while
they were spot, but I don't want to
chance it. While they were parked there.
If they had found it, I imagine there
would be more commotion. Again, I'm
sorry for roping you into all of this.
You shouldn't have to worry about this.
And Lance replies, "Does anyone else
know?" Tyler says, "Not to my
knowledge." Tyler says, "Guess I'm guess
I'm just sitting in my car watching
reals for another hour, hoping this guy
off." And Lance says, "Are you okay
still?" And Tyler says, "Yes, check in
spot again now. We'll update soon." He
continues, "The squad car was moved
further away enough that I should be
able to move in." I backed off cuz I
thought I heard footsteps. Maybe a foot
patrol, but the crickets here are so
loud. Going to see if the if the road
closer to campus is open so I can drive
past and check it out. Probably still
closed off though. Getting worried. Hard
to know for sure, but I'm not finding my
rifle. Could be in the wrong spot.
Lance says, "Do you think they found
it?" And Tyler says, "Don't know. They
haven't published anything if they
have." And then Lance says, "Why did you
leave it behind originally?" Also, does
it have a serial number? ID EK. If I had
uh if it had a serial number, but it
wouldn't trace to me. I worry about
prints. I had to leave it in a in a bush
where I changed outfits. Didn't have the
ability or time to bring it with. So,
Lance says, "Was your change of clothes
there or was that also gone or did you
bring those with you originally? any way
you could replace the gun or would he
notice?
Then Tyler says, "Only thing I left was
the rifle wrapped in a towel. I'll bet
that K9 sniffed it out. Uh, little
snitching bastard. We replace it
unlikely. I don't fully know what the
gun was cuz it was old as and Gramps did
some modifying. There was a four-digit
serial serial on it. God only knows who
it's registered to. hopefully some dead
guy who gave it to grandpa. And he
continues, "Remember how I was engraving
bullets?
Messages are mostly a big meme. If I see
notices, uh, Bulge UW on Fox News, I
might have a stroke." He says, "All
right, I'm going to have to leave it.
That really sucks." So Lance says, "Do
you need it for hunting?" And Tyler
says, "No, my dad wanted to use it to
use a high caliber for the rifle hunt.
Judging from today, I say Graham's gun
does just fine. IDK, I think that was a
two a 2K scope. Lance says, "Geez."
And then Tyler says, "OMW home uh 3.5
hours." Lance says, "Drive safe." And
then Tyler says, "Delete this exchange."
So, this is Tyler. I'm going to turn
myself in willingly. One of my neighbors
here is a deputy for the sheriff. We
hope to keep things sort of quiet here.
>> Delete the evidence. Everything he's
mentioning in these text messages is
part of the evidence. The towel, the
fact that he goes back to the scene at
11:00 at night. His car is seen on
video. There's an officer who could
testify about seeing him and taking his
plates down. Everything is lining up.
Some of the other key evidence in this
case, the physical evidence, the alleged
murder weapon, and the ammunition, the
ammunition that had the engravings on
it, those very specific engravings
again, which go back and match some of
the text messages. Let's go back inside
the courtroom. Take a look at the
testimony uh of an agent from the State
Bureau of Investigation Crime Scene
Analyst talking about this physical
evidence.
Was
anything of evidentiary value found in
the wooded area?
>> Yes, in the wooded area, a right rifle
that was wrapped in a dark color towel
was found there.
>> Did you go to that area?
>> Yes, I did.
>> Did you observe the the weapon?
>> Yes.
>> Will you describe what you saw?
>> Yeah. What I saw was a a rifle that was
or at the time before even having
removed it, we found or in the bushes we
found all you could really see was just
a dark towel there. Um so pictures were
taken of that and then eventually the
gun or the towel was removed and then
once we removed the towel from the
bushes is when we uncovered that the
towel was wrapped was actually used to
wrap the gun in. Will you describe what
we're looking at in exhibit 10.1?
>> Yes. This is a mid-range shot of again
the towel that was used or of the towel
and within the bushes.
>> Will you describe what we see here?
>> Yeah. So, what you see here now is a
dark colored towel and a the rifle that
is in the towel and it is in a cardboard
box.
>> Why is the towel still around the gun?
>> We wanted to document as to how it was
found.
>> Is this the rifle?
>> Yes, it is. So when we rendered the gun
safe, we found in it when we removed the
bolt back, we found one one cart or one
30 her 306 cartridge case or safe a
fired cartridge case and we also found
three unfired cartridges all with
engravings on them.
>> Okay. I want to make sure we understand
the language you're using. When you say
cartridge case and you say cartridge,
what do you mean?
>> Yep. So, a cartridge is basically the
round itself, right? The whole round.
Um, and the round consists of the
cartridge case and then the powder and
then the bullet on top. So, the
cartridge case, the term is used for um
something that has been fired already. A
cartridge is is an unfired round.
>> Was there anything distinctive about
these items?
>> All four of them had engravings on them.
>> Did you observe those engravings?
>> Yes, I did. Did you observe them right
there on scene?
>> Yes, I did.
>> What are we looking at here in exhibit
19?
>> This is the cartridge case that was
recovered from the gun.
>> And what position was this in in the
gun?
>> This was the or this is what was in the
chamber.
>> Okay. In the chamber meaning uh that's
where that's where a cartridge is before
it's or when it is fired. Correct.
>> Yes. Do you notice an inscription or an
etching on this cartridge case?
>> Yes, I do.
>> Will you read what that says?
>> Yes.
>> Notice bulge.
>> And if we can go down to Will you read
what this says?
>> Ow. Whats?
>> And to page three.
>> This
>> and question mark. Correct.
>> Yes. Question mark.
>> Is this uh
a photograph of one of the cartridges
that was found in the gun? Yes, it is.
>> And what are we looking at here in this
view of page one on exhibit 20?
>> This is the headstamp of it. And it says
it is a according to the headstamp, it
is a Remington 3006 Springfield.
>> Is that a different caliber than a 223
round?
>> Yes, it is.
>> Will you read the the markings here?
>> Hey, fascist. Catch
>> on page four.
Up arrow, right arrow, down arrow, down
arrow, down arrow.
>> And was this another round that was
found in the gun?
>> Yes.
>> Will you read the inscription here?
>> Old Bella Chow.
>> Page two.
>> Chow. Chow.
>> Another round that was found from the
gun. Correct.
>> Yes.
>> Will you please read the letters here?
If you read
>> page two,
>> this comma you're or correction this
comma you are
>> page three
>> gay
>> and page four
>> l m a l o
>> want to ask you about the defendants's
home.
What items were will you describe some
of the items that were collected from
that home?
>> Yep. Some items collected in that home
were a Dremel tool and its bits
container as well as uh two or two
Edmonington boxes of 306 ammunition as
well as some uh 30 odd 6 cartridge cases
and a handful of long guns or rubber
eyeballs, a revolver as well as a burned
paper.
>> All right. I want to ask you about
clothing as well. Was any clothing
collected from the town home? Yes, there
was.
>> How about shoes?
>> Yes.
>> What kind of shoes?
>> Uh, two shoes were collected from the
home. One was a Converse shoes, gray in
color with white laces, I believe, a
size 10 and a half. And then another
Converse shoes that were also gray, but
had gray laces instead, but uh were of a
different um size that I can't remember.
>> I think you said that you collected uh
boxes of ammunition. Do you remember
what caliber that ammunition was?
>> Yes, sir. a handful, but um the one that
I recall was 30 odd six.
>> And you also said you found some
cartridge cases.
>> Uh do you remember what caliber those
cartridge cases were?
>> Yes, those were also 30 out six.
>> Will you describe what we're looking at
in exhibit 23?
>> Exhibit 23 are the five cartridge
casings we found on top of the safe. um
all were 306 Springfield caliber and one
of them had an engraving that said test
shot on it.
>> You've talked about Springfield
Remington. Um are these is this these 30
sixes um
are they the same type of round as was
found in the gun?
>> Yes.
>> Do you need more? Do prosecutors need
like everything is is set up perfectly.
Like the the ammo that is found at the
scene matches the ammo that's found at
his apartment. The etchings, the the the
druml which is doing the etching is
consistent with the text messages which
is consistent with what his roommate
Lance Twigs testified to.
There's nothing inconsistent about it.
All the pieces fit together perfectly.
This is a strong prosecution case.
So, the defense isn't going to just sit
back and not fight back. There's a
defense in every case. Um, and and and
what I'm going to play for you now to me
will be the seeds of reasonable doubt
that they'll try to plant at the trial.
But these same facts, you put them
online, they turn into um some sort of
alternative theory, which I haven't
quite figured out yet. But here it is.
Let's start with the first suspect who
was approached right after the shooting
of Charlie Kirk.
>> All right. So, they pretty much
instantly had someone in custody.
>> Yes. And that's why I was quite quite
surprised.
Were you aware of where the person was
taken into custody?
>> Uh, right down by where Charlie Kirk was
sitting by his tent somewhere down
there.
>> So, in the courtyard area, the person
would have been in the courtyard area at
the time of the shooting.
>> Yes.
>> Was that person in or near or around the
holster in any way?
>> Uh, no.
>> You don't know?
>> No, it he wasn't. where that holster was
was up on the top level up there and it
was where the when the incident happened
when when they when Charlie got shot uh
within seconds the other officer that
was down by him said that he was in
custody with the prisoner of the
shooter. So
>> within right there
>> you didn't um at that time it was your
understanding the person they took into
custody was close by Mr. Kirk. Is that
right?
>> Yep. But it didn't occur to you that
well that's not where I heard the shock
come from. They must have the wrong
person. I should talk to somebody
>> during the chaos moment. No, that's that
they said they had person in custody. I
figured those guys saw something I
didn't see. They took the person in
custody and I thought that was him.
>> Okay.
>> Okay. So, what is this sloppy
investigation? Should we be looking at
this first suspect? Uh, is everyone's
testimony unreliable? Defense will do
something with it. Trust me. Trust me,
they'll do something with it. Um, this
next piece is really interesting because
it's played a lot online. There's some
ring video that someone saw, but they
allegedly saw the defendant's car or
what was supposed to be the defendant's
car with more than one person in it.
Right. Expanding the number of people
involved in all of this potentially.
Take a listen.
Now,
>> I'd like to talk a little bit about the
Ring camera that um you obtained and you
interviewed a woman named Noble. Is that
right? To get that ring camera that we
watched with the car on the outside.
>> Uh, she we interviewed her to verify the
authenticity of the video. Yes.
>> And were you involved in that interview
>> with Miss Noble?
>> Yes.
>> And do you recall what they told you
about what they remember seeing in and
around that car that night?
>> Uh, I don't recall. I I just know we
were there to verify the video. I didn't
conduct an interview with Miss Noble at
that time.
>> Do you remember that looking at that
interview? Does that refresh your
recollection?
>> I remember reading the report at some
point. Yes.
>> And do you remember that the nobles told
you that the driver of the vehicle was
bald?
>> I I do remember that being in the
report. Yes.
>> And you didn't mention that today when
you were talking about that ring camera,
did you?
>> I did not.
>> And did they also tell you there were
three other people in the car?
>> Yes. I believe they they thought that
was the case. Okay.
Okay. So, witness is saying there's a
bald driver. There's three other people
in the car. This is a group of people.
He is not a lone wolf. So, that's
feeding a lot of what the the chatter is
online. Uh what does the defense do with
this at a trial to raise reasonable
doubt? Well, you just like we say all
the time at Court TV, you muddy up the
waters a little bit. But this I mean
this type of evidence is kind of on the
peripheral here. This is not the heart
of the case. Um, but it is what a lot of
folks are leaning on and it may be the
only thing that the defense has to lean
on. Um, there's something else. This one
might be the most significant piece,
which is another bullet that is found on
top of another building. Significant for
many reasons, but let's take a listen to
how this testimony went down inside the
courtroom.
Once you came from on high that you were
basically going to be in charge of the
scene, what was the what was your first
priority? What were you focused on?
>> Uh we were focused on through our major
crimes team and our lieutenant putting
together an investigative team and
developing initial assignments and a
plan as to what we were going to do
moving forward.
>> And part of that is protecting any
potential forensic evidence that may be
found on the scene. That's clearly
important, right?
>> Correct.
>> Preserving the scene,
>> right?
>> Correct.
>> But it sounds like that's not really
your area. That was more maybe Agent
Famina's area.
>> Agent Felmina was assigned to process
and document the crime scenes. Uh it was
my understanding that the known scenes
at that time um amid the chaos had been
contained and had been secured by the on
the onampus officers who were already on
scene.
>> And what's your understanding of what
the known scenes were? In other words,
the area where there might potentially
be evidence that you needed to process.
>> I know that the amphitheater area was
was cordoned off and managed as best it
could with the with the number of people
that were there. I was also made aware
that there was a rooftop area that had
been secured and also an area off of the
side of that building that had been
secured by an officer.
>> And that building was the Losi building.
>> Correct.
>> Wasn't there also a bullet found on
another building?
>> I believe an unfired bullet had been
found on another building at some point
during my time there on September 10th.
Yeah.
>> Which building was that, sir?
>> I don't recall. Was that considered a
scene that was worth preserving?
>> Uh, it was not. My recollection is that
that was accounted for as an ejected
cartridge from an officer who had cycled
his rifle.
>> Okay. I thought you said it was an
unfired bullet and now you're saying it
was a cartridge.
>> When when a weapon is cleared
>> Uhhuh.
>> Um, an officer would make his rifle
ready, which would chamber around.
>> Oh, I got you.
My understanding was that that's how
that was accounted for.
>> So a officer claimed it that bullet
belonged to him or her.
>> That's my recollection is that that that
was how it was accounted for.
>> And when when was that accounted for?
>> I don't know specifically.
>> Do you remember what type of bullet that
was?
>> I don't.
>> Was it a 30 odd six? Do you remember?
>> I don't. Okay. Do you know where that
bullet is now?
>> I don't.
>> Okay. two things here. You can claim
sloppy police work or you can claim
something else is going on on that other
roof and they swept it under the rug.
So, prosecutors will have to uh address
that in front of a jury. They addressed
it in front of the judge. Um it was a
different caliber than the 306.
Uh that is the caliber in question. So,
that's part of the seeds of reasonable
doubt that we'll see if they develop or
grow into anything. Uh but that's it for
this time. I'm Vinnie Palletan. Thank
you so much for watching. Until next
time, please don't forget to hug the
kids.