Charlie Kirk and Danny Shelton on Honoring the Sabbath and the Ten Commandments in Modern Christianity

[00:00] How did you connect Sabbath with Jesus?

[00:04] >> Well, in Jesus we find our rest. And

[00:07] that's the critical thing is that we're

[00:09] promised that the Sabbath will give we

[00:13] should find rest in the Sabbath. And on

[00:14] the seventh day, God rested and saw that

[00:17] it was good. But we know that our

[00:19] ultimate rest is in Christ Jesus.

[00:22] >> Secondly, though, and I think this is

[00:23] important. I don't want to get too deep

[00:25] into this. I'm not a theologian. My new

[00:27] friend here can answer this far better

[00:28] than I can. But there, I think, is some

[00:32] sloppy and misleading Christian teaching

[00:35] at times that says that Jesus does not

[00:38] want you to honor the Sabbath and Jesus

[00:39] broke the Sabbath.

[00:41] >> I'm not going to get too far deep into

[00:42] that. I'll allow my new friend to

[00:44] comment on that. But here's what I will

[00:46] say is that we believe in a triune God

[00:49] and therefore that it predated the law

[00:52] and creation was mentioned by Christ

[00:56] several times and emphasized all

[00:58] throughout scriptures.

[00:59] >> In fact, I believe that there are

[01:02] miracles all throughout the Bible. But

[01:04] the two miracles that we as Christians

[01:06] must remember on a daily and weekly

[01:09] basis is the creation of the world and

[01:11] the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Those

[01:13] are the two biggest of all the miracles.

[01:16] Those miracles make Christianity. And so

[01:19] it connects very significantly. I I also

[01:22] look at it through a modern. What does

[01:26] this mean for us as moderns?

[01:28] >> There are two types of people right now

[01:29] in the modern world beyond Christians

[01:31] and Muslims and all that. Two basically

[01:33] types of people. The first type they

[01:35] believe that our existence is a mistake.

[01:38] That we are a happy accident. a bunch of

[01:41] evolution cells came together and we

[01:43] happen to get consciousness and reason

[01:45] and all these different variables from

[01:48] the tilt of the earth and the axis and

[01:50] carbon dioxide and oxygen all came

[01:52] together. This is all a mistake. The

[01:54] second category believes our existence

[01:56] is a miracle and you believe that there

[01:59] is intentionality.

[02:01] By honoring the Sabbath, whether you

[02:03] realize it or not, you are pushing

[02:05] against all the dark nihilism that has

[02:08] infected our world. Nihilism believes

[02:10] that there is no purpose and there is no

[02:13] meaning to your existence. By honoring

[02:15] the Sabbath, you're stopping what you're

[02:17] doing, saying, "No, everything we do

[02:19] matters because there is intentionality

[02:21] behind our creation and we honor the

[02:24] creator because there is creation."

[02:27] >> And the final thing I'll say is this is

[02:30] in the book of Romans in Romans 1, this

[02:32] is very important.

[02:34] >> We must never worship creation. And it

[02:37] warns us about this. And you see this

[02:39] with people that will worship nature or

[02:41] worship the sun. We are to worship the

[02:44] creator. And Shabbat gives us that

[02:47] opportunity to then worship the creator

[02:49] of the heavens and the earth.

[02:50] >> Amen.

[02:56] So during your journey keeping the

[02:58] Sabbath, right? So you would have

[03:00] witnessed people asking you questions,

[03:03] pastors especially from Christianom

[03:06] telling you we are no longer under law,

[03:09] we are under grace, why do you keep the

[03:11] Sabbath? How did you respond to those

[03:13] questions?

[03:14] >> So as a non- theologian, it's a great

[03:16] question or a non-pastor, I'll respond.

[03:18] While I do believe we are bound by the

[03:20] Sabbath, I'm not properly equipped or

[03:22] it's my profession to get into

[03:24] theological debates.

[03:25] >> Great. That's where I come in.

[03:26] >> Yes. But I will say this. I I will say

[03:28] this though. I will say, do you believe

[03:32] that given the option, this is my best

[03:33] answer because this is how I think.

[03:35] >> Do you think that God would prefer you

[03:38] to turn off all your devices and stop

[03:40] working and worshiping him for 24 hours

[03:42] with your family or running around town,

[03:45] going to bars, doing SL, you know,

[03:48] continuing in corporate work? Which do

[03:50] you think is more godly? And if you

[03:52] believe that the Sabbath is more godly,

[03:54] then why won't you say that from the

[03:55] pulpit?

[03:57] And so that that is my answer which is

[03:59] that look Jesus said upon all of the

[04:03] laws of the commandments these two hold.

[04:05] Love the Lord your God with your heart,

[04:06] soul, strength and mind. Right?

[04:08] Deuteronomy 6 and then Leviticus 19 love

[04:11] your neighbor as yourself. How are we

[04:13] supposed to love our God with our heart,

[04:14] soul, strength, and mind? Well, you

[04:16] think about it. What makes the Sabbath

[04:18] so unique is that it is a cathedral

[04:21] built in time.

[04:24] is that it is part of your schedule that

[04:27] you are dedicating to the Lord.

[04:29] >> And my goodness, does our flesh not want

[04:31] to do that. Your flesh fights this idea

[04:35] like, "Oh, I'll do a two-hour Sabbath

[04:36] this week or I'll just do a little bit

[04:38] of work." That is your flesh. That is

[04:40] the enemy. If it was easy to honor the

[04:43] Sabbath, then God would not have to

[04:45] command it time and time again. Hey,

[04:48] remember it, guys. Remember because the

[04:50] way that in our depraved nature, the

[04:52] enemy wants to prioritize materialism

[04:56] over our creator.

[04:58] >> Prioritize your own fleshly pursuits

[05:01] over the elevation of the divine. So I

[05:04] will I will then hand off the baton here

[05:06] on the theological question. And it's

[05:08] not to say that I don't have opinions on

[05:10] it. I am instead in my role in life, I

[05:13] am a bibleelving, church attending

[05:15] Christian that talks about Jesus every

[05:16] day. I am more interested in the moral,

[05:19] at least my career, the moral

[05:21] application of God's teachings and I'll

[05:23] allow the theologians to have the proper

[05:26] food fights and sort it out. So, with

[05:27] that, tell us why we're bound by the

[05:29] Sabbath.

[05:30] >> Okay. First of all, it's good to be

[05:32] here. Um, he sounds like a theologian to

[05:35] me. I don't know.

[05:36] >> I'm I'm not I'm not actually a

[05:38] theologian. I didn't go to the um

[05:40] Charlie, I didn't go to the cemetery. I

[05:42] mean, seminary. I didn't do that at all.

[05:45] Um I'm like you. I have a high school

[05:47] education, but I've learned through the

[05:49] years and when you get to be in your

[05:51] 70s, you've had time to learn. But

[05:53] several years ago, I wrote a book and

[05:55] with Shelley Quinn, friend of mine, it's

[05:57] called The Ten Commandments Twice

[05:58] Removed. I'll give it to you why I put

[06:01] that title, The Ten Commandments Twice

[06:04] Removed. I think you'll agree with me

[06:05] that our government, for one thing, has

[06:07] removed the Ten Commandments. But

[06:09] secondly, and very important on what you

[06:12] were saying is that the churches, the

[06:15] Christian church has removed the ten

[06:17] commandments.

[06:17] >> I I completely agree and it's a tragedy

[06:20] and I think it's against God's commands

[06:21] and his wish for his.

[06:22] >> So there you have the ten commandments

[06:24] twice removed. So what's happened is God

[06:28] created and you've already said much of

[06:30] this so I won't spend much time going

[06:32] over it but God said on the creation

[06:36] week it wasn't when the ten commandments

[06:37] were people say they given to the Jews

[06:39] they were given to Moses and I hear you

[06:41] understand that they from creation God

[06:44] rested the Sabbath people say oh well

[06:46] they didn't keep you know the

[06:48] commandments uh up till Moses well

[06:51] actually if you look at Genesis 26 you

[06:53] know it talks about Isaac Jacob They

[06:56] kept the laws, the precepts, the

[06:58] promises. When Cain killed his brother

[07:00] Abel early on, he knew he sinned. It was

[07:02] a sin.

[07:03] >> So, what I do is we start at not just

[07:06] the Sabbath, but I believe one of the

[07:08] biggest enemies of God's commandments is

[07:11] the Christian church today. I didn't get

[07:14] any amens. That's fine. That's all

[07:16] right. You one of the biggest enemies of

[07:19] the the God's keeping God's commandments

[07:22] is the Christian church. And I'll tell

[07:24] you why. Because if the Christian church

[07:26] will say, "Well, the Ten Commandments

[07:29] were nailed to the cross. We're not

[07:31] under that old law. We don't have to

[07:33] keep that old law." I was at a big

[07:36] Baptist church several years ago, and

[07:38] the preacher said to me afterwards, "Uh,

[07:41] you're one of those old Seventh Day

[07:42] Adventists." He said, "Is that right?"

[07:45] And um I said, "Yes." And he said, "Man,

[07:48] you mean you're under that old law?" And

[07:50] um I said, "Which law are you talking

[07:52] about?" He said, "Well, that old ten

[07:53] commandment law." Well, what had

[07:55] happened, they had taken up a Sunday

[07:57] morning worship, uh, tithes and

[07:59] offerings, and then they took up a

[08:01] separate one for me. I was in the back

[08:04] room with the pastor, and I saw that the

[08:07] Sunday morning tithe and offering of

[08:09] this big church was a lot more money

[08:11] than what I would be getting. So, he

[08:13] said, "Oh, I'm not under the old law." I

[08:15] said, "Great." So, I went over and I

[08:17] began to gather up all the money from

[08:19] this tithes and and offerings and I

[08:22] said, "Thank you so much. I appreciate

[08:24] it. I'm going to leave. And he goes,

[08:25] "Well, wait a minute, Brother Danny. You

[08:27] can't do that." I said, "Why not?" He

[08:29] said, "Because you can't. That's our" I

[08:31] said, "But tell me what I'm doing

[08:34] wrong." And he goes, "I get your

[08:36] message." See, I was stealing, right? He

[08:39] suddenly believed in the Ten

[08:40] Commandments because I was going to

[08:42] steal his money. And so

[08:45] now they suddenly know it. People say,

[08:47] "Oh, I'm not under we're not under." The

[08:49] reason that the Christian church is is

[08:53] so big on the commandments were nailed

[08:55] to the cross, they're not valid, is

[08:57] because the one commandment, the one

[09:00] commandment, the fourth commandment that

[09:01] Charlie's been talking to you about.

[09:04] Because if I have to keep that, well, if

[09:06] I can say, well, these commandments were

[09:08] nailed to the cross. Nowhere in the

[09:10] Bible does it say the Ten Commandments

[09:12] were nailed to the cross. What was

[09:14] nailed to the cross? some of you the the

[09:18] it says the law of the ordinances Moses

[09:21] laws all of those were nailed to the

[09:23] cross. So what what God did and what he

[09:26] first of all I think Charlie we should

[09:28] talk about sin for a second. What is

[09:30] sin? Okay, if we have to understand sin,

[09:33] sin is the Bible definition 1 John 3:4.

[09:37] Sin is the transgression or the breaking

[09:40] of God's ten commandment law. So some

[09:43] people say, "How do you know it's God's

[09:44] ten commandment law?" And I say, "Well,

[09:46] what other laws did he give that we

[09:48] don't know about?"

[09:49] >> So I have a question for Charlie. Sorry.

[09:51] Go ahead.

[09:51] >> No. And I I just want to expand. You

[09:54] asked your question. I think that's such

[09:55] a profound point. C can you just quickly

[09:58] respond to how a pastor would say, "What

[10:00] about the 613 laws of Judaism?" Can you

[10:03] just respond? They say, "Why the ten

[10:05] commandments and not the ceremonial or

[10:08] the levitical law of, you know, keeping

[10:10] kosh fruits and can can you just

[10:13] >> help me respond to that?"

[10:15] >> Sure. Because Colossians says, you know,

[10:17] the nailing to the cross, the ordinances

[10:19] were nailed to the cross. But that is

[10:21] that 614 laws. That's not the ten

[10:24] commandments. They confuse it. So the

[10:27] old covenant was given the ten

[10:30] commandments. There's the old covenant,

[10:32] new covenant has nothing to do with

[10:35] >> I I subscribe to that view. Okay. I do

[10:37] >> with not wi with not keeping the

[10:39] commandments. It's how are we saved in

[10:42] the under the fir co covenant we were

[10:44] saved by by what you know we were saved

[10:48] by sure the old covenant it's always

[10:51] been by grace but God had to put up a

[10:53] temporary thing called the sanctuary

[10:55] where we we shed the they brought it to

[10:59] the sanctuary of the lambs and shed the

[11:00] innocent blood and so what happened is

[11:03] that was a shadow of things to come that

[11:07] so man could still be saved without

[11:09] Jesus Jesus's shed blood. So when Jesus

[11:12] died on the cross, he gave his life. No

[11:15] one took it. That then became the

[11:17] atonement for sin, doing away with the

[11:20] old covenant, with the ceremonial law,

[11:22] the old Jewish laws. It totally did away

[11:25] with it. But we still are under the ten

[11:28] commandments. People say, "Oh, they're

[11:29] nailed to the cross." Jesus says in the

[11:31] New Testament, of course, if you love

[11:33] me, do what?

[11:34] >> Keep my commandments. Over and over,

[11:37] James says, "If you keep the whole law,

[11:40] yet you offend in one point,

[11:42] >> you're guilty of all." Now, this is New

[11:45] Testament. This is New Testament. Think

[11:47] about it, James. This was after the

[11:50] crucifixion, after the resurrection. So,

[11:53] this could have been 30, 40, 50 years

[11:55] later. He's still saying that if you

[11:58] keep the whole law, yet offend in one

[12:00] point, you're guilty of all. Nowhere did

[12:02] Jesus say and nowhere did the disciples

[12:04] when writing scriptures in the New

[12:07] Testament after the the death and

[12:10] resurrection of Christ. Nowhere did

[12:13] anyone say oh but since the resurrection

[12:16] of Christ you don't have to keep uh the

[12:19] Sabbath anymore. So the Sabbath is is

[12:22] perpetual. Yes.

[12:23] >> So from the

[12:24] >> Good.

[12:25] >> Yeah. And I I want to reiterate that I I

[12:28] don't want to do trivial pursuit, but I

[12:30] I would be interesting. So, of course,

[12:32] the Ten Commandments is repeated in the

[12:34] book of Deuteronomy. So, it's Exodus 20

[12:36] and also the book of Dut Deuteronomy.

[12:38] They're identical except for one. Do you

[12:40] know what the difference is?

[12:41] >> It's okay. I don't have to put you on

[12:42] the spot. It's okay. It's really

[12:44] important. Does anyone know

[12:46] >> the the Sabbath? Do you guys know the

[12:47] difference?

[12:49] >> It's it the only difference The only

[12:51] difference, everything identical, is

[12:52] that Moses says, "Honor the Shabbat." It

[12:55] goes on because you are no longer slaves

[12:57] like you were in Egypt.

[12:58] >> Only slaves work all seven days,

[13:00] everybody. It is a commandment that

[13:03] keeps you free. You know how many

[13:05] wealthy slaves there are in Scottsdale,

[13:07] Arizona

[13:08] that work seven days a week that have

[13:11] big mansions? Moses is telling the

[13:14] people, understand the context. This is

[13:16] me Moses's farewell address. This is

[13:19] before he's done. He's been with these

[13:21] complaining, unimpressive former slaves

[13:23] for 40 years.

[13:25] that have tried to kick him out. So,

[13:26] who's this Moses guy? Let's go back to

[13:28] Egypt. The the food was better. We had

[13:29] meat and we had cucumbers and we had

[13:31] leaks and we had melons. We had all this

[13:32] stuff. Who's this Moses guy? We want to

[13:34] go back to laying bricks. Moses

[13:36] basically five times goes to God like,

[13:38] "These are the worst people ever. Can

[13:39] you just take me out of my misery?"

[13:41] >> Yeah. And so Moses is finally getting to

[13:44] the point where he's like, "This is my

[13:45] farewell address." Now, as we know in

[13:48] American politics, farewell addresses

[13:49] are really important. Washington's

[13:51] farewell address, Eisen Eisenhower's

[13:53] farewell address, Lincoln's, the very,

[13:55] very important stuff they say. So Moses

[13:57] is getting to the end of Deuteronomy and

[13:59] he wants to remind these former slaves,

[14:01] hey slaves, you're about to go into the

[14:03] land of milk and honey. You're about to

[14:04] go into Canaan. Remember, if you

[14:07] actually want to be free, you don't work

[14:09] for seven days.

[14:12] In fact, if you go back to ancient Roman

[14:15] literature, ancient Greek literature,

[14:17] even during the Inquisition of ancient

[14:20] Spanish, not ancient, but like

[14:21] 500-year-old Spanish literature, every

[14:24] place where the Jews honored the

[14:26] Sabbath, they would get made fun of by

[14:29] the occupying force. The Romans would be

[14:32] like, "Who are these Jews that don't

[14:33] work all the time? Like, what are what

[14:35] would they think they're better than us?

[14:37] They take one day just about their

[14:38] family and for their people. Hey, guess

[14:41] what? The Jews are still around in the

[14:43] ancient Roman Empire is not

[14:46] >> because

[14:48] and and this is the more macro point and

[14:50] I I I just want to say what what Moses

[14:52] was saying in the book of Deuteronomy is

[14:54] that if you want to be a free people,

[14:57] you must honor the Sabbath. I will go a

[15:00] step further. You cannot have a free

[15:03] society if you're working for seven days

[15:05] a week.

[15:06] you will be a slave to something in the

[15:09] worst possible way.

[15:10] >> That's that's very well said. Jesus also

[15:13] in Revelation at the end of Revelation

[15:16] made a farewell speech and that's

[15:18] blessed are they that do his

[15:19] commandments that they might have right

[15:21] to the tree of life and enter into the

[15:24] gates of the city. So again, as we were

[15:28] talking about the commandments, I think

[15:29] one of the biggest enemies of the ten

[15:32] commandments is the Christian church

[15:34] because they're in they insist upon

[15:36] saying the ten commandments were nailed

[15:38] to the cross. But again, I would ask

[15:41] them if someone steals from you, u there

[15:44] are preachers who preach against LGBTQ,

[15:47] they preach against the abortion, but

[15:49] they say the ten commandments were

[15:51] nailed to the cross. And I say, well, if

[15:53] the Ten Commandments were nailed to the

[15:54] cross, why would that be wrong? Why are

[15:56] you against it? The Ten Commandments

[15:58] were not u Paul says, do basically, and

[16:02] I think it's Romans 3:31, do we

[16:04] basically do we do away with the law? He

[16:07] says, God forbid, yeah, we establish the

[16:10] law.

[16:10] >> The law. So Jesus came to seek and save

[16:14] those which were lost. And I'd like to

[16:16] say in my closing part, thank you so

[16:18] much for what you're doing. the book

[16:19] that you're writing, the the end result

[16:22] is that to make heaven our home. And I

[16:25] believe that when we surrender, submit,

[16:27] and commit our life to Jesus Christ, we

[16:29] are saved by grace. No amount of works

[16:31] will get us into heaven. So no matter

[16:33] what I've just said, it will not get us

[16:36] into heaven. Can I be saved by keeping

[16:38] the Ten Commandments? No. I'm saved by

[16:41] the grace of God. Can I be lost by not

[16:43] keeping the Ten Commandments? Yes. When

[16:46] you reject what you know to be truth,

[16:48] some people say, "Well, the how about

[16:50] all the people that keep Sunday or

[16:52] Friday or whatever, are are they then

[16:55] lost? Are they not going to heaven?" And

[16:56] I say, "No, not necessarily." God has

[16:59] people in all churches. And I think

[17:01] there'll be people in heaven that

[17:02] probably never set foot in a church, but

[17:05] they didn't reject what they know to be

[17:07] truth. So God winks in our ignorance. So

[17:10] if somebody doesn't know something,

[17:12] they're not going to be held accountable

[17:14] for it because we serve a loving God who

[17:17] gave his life. No one took his life. Who

[17:19] gave his life on the cross of Calvary so

[17:22] that his his death would not be in vain.

[17:24] That everyone has the chance of eternal

[17:27] life because of his great love for

[17:29] fallen man. And I'm so excited to uh

[17:33] meet you, Charlie, and to to I can't I

[17:35] look forward to your book on what you're

[17:37] doing. and it sounds very profound and

[17:40] uh will help us uh tremendously and I

[17:43] thank you for what you're doing for the

[17:45] cause of God and uh so we can talk I'll

[17:47] leave that book with you. I'd give you

[17:49] this one but I've scribbled on it but

[17:51] that's yours. I've written three three

[17:53] books on on the ten commandments twice

[17:55] removed with Shelley. This is called the

[17:56] truth about the ten commandments. So and

[17:59] we have the truth about the

[18:01] commandments. So hopefully today what

[18:03] people will see is that God in his

[18:06] infinite love and wisdom and and and

[18:08] love for fallen man is making a way that

[18:11] we can get out of this life right death

[18:17] eternal death to eternal life with him

[18:19] in heaven forever. So thank the Lord for

[18:22] his mercy his grace and his love. Thank

[18:24] you so much brother Danny.

[18:26] >> Thank you. God bless.