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Why America's Christian Founding Is an Undeniable Historical Fact Despite Modern Revisionism
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Charlie Kirk Exposes Five False Religions Replacing Christianity and Fighting For America's Future
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Charlie Kirk and Rob McCoy Challenge Churches to Rise Up Against Fear and Fight for Liberty
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Charlie Kirk Explains Why Religious Freedom Is the Mother of All Freedoms in America
Charlie Kirk breaks down why religious freedom stands as the cornerstone of American liberty and self-government. Drawing from the founding fathers' vision, Kirk explains how 55 of 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence were churchgoing Christians, with at least a dozen being pastors themselves. He argues that the American experiment in limited government was designed exclusively for a moral and religious people, echoing John Adams' warning that the Constitution is "wholly inadequate for the people of any other." Kirk challenges the modern misinterpretation of separation of church and state, revealing how this phrase appears nowhere in the Constitution but was weaponized in the 1960s to remove prayer from schools. He calls Christians to stop conforming to secular pressure, to be the same person publicly as they are privately, and to recognize that courage rooted in truth is the only path forward. Even secular Americans, Kirk notes, are fleeing to states that honor religious trad
Religious Freedom as the Foundation of American Self-Government
Religious freedom isn't just another liberty among many - it's the mother of all freedoms. At its core, religious freedom represents the freedom to worship your own creator and understand the reason why you exist. The founding fathers designed the American system of self-government with the fundamental belief that such a system was only possible with a moral and religious people.
John Adams articulated this principle clearly when he stated that the Constitution was written solely for a moral and religious people and is wholly inadequate for the people of any other. This means limited government can only function when people are able to regulate their own decisions and conduct, particularly within religious communities or when the worship of God serves as the centerpiece of life.
The Founding Fathers' Vision of Liberty
The idea of liberty as understood by the founding fathers differs significantly from the traditional libertarian view that has become common in America. True liberty, in the founders' conception, is the ability to pursue virtue without interference. The necessity of virtue was fundamental to the American founding.
Of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence, 55 were Christians who regularly attended church. At least a dozen were pastors, and many more had attended religious institutions or held religious degrees. State boundaries in colonial America actually marked the beginning and end of certain religious traditions, each with different perspectives on which strain of Protestantism was the most effective way to practice Christianity. Pennsylvania, for instance, was heavily Quaker.
The founding fathers were only able to articulate a doctrine of separation from Britain and create a new government because they understood the teachings of the Bible and recognized the moral right to religious freedom.
Understanding Religious Freedom in the Constitution
Religious freedom appears in the United States Constitution in a unique way - it's mentioned twice in two different forms. The first is the establishment clause, and the second is the free expression clause.
The establishment clause states that Congress shall make no religion. This wasn't meant to suggest that religion has no place in government. Rather, it was a promise to every strain of Protestant tradition in colonial times that America would not become exclusively Anglican, Episcopalian, Quaker, Presbyterian, or Lutheran. Every denomination would be respected.
The free expression clause holds even greater importance. It declares that the government has no right to interfere with your religious conscience, your ability to gather and assemble, and your right to worship your creator. This represents a unique attribute and characteristic of the American system. Once religious freedom is lost, state control begins to set in.
The Necessity of Religious Roots for Virtue
A common question arises: Must people be religious to be virtuous? Can't atheists be good people too? While there certainly are good atheists, they're practicing the Judeo-Christian ethic without acknowledging it.
The deeper question is: What is good? Where do definitions of right, transcendence, and evil come from? These are profound questions, and the Christian tradition provides answers to what all these things mean. It's good to grow closer to your creator, defend the innocent, and tell the truth. It's evil to call good evil and evil good, to turn your back on the defenseless, to disobey parents, and to take another life.
These principles have been woven into the DNA of Western culture to such an extent that they're often taken for granted. But this moral framework is not normative to the universal human experience. Freedom is not sustainable if religion is removed. More specifically, freedom is not sustainable if Christianity is removed. Eventually, society will implode, ruled simply by senses and consciousness.
Reason is a gift from the Lord - Isaiah 1 says, "Let us reason together." However, reason without revelation, reason without belief in a transcendent order, will lead exactly where thinkers like John Stuart Mill and Darwin took it: to survival of the fittest and eugenicist experiments that Christians must reject.
The Truth About Separation of Church and State
The phrase "separation of church and state" continues to surface in debates, despite not appearing in the Constitution, Bill of Rights, or any foundational document. It exists only in a single letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptist Convention. The phrase was adopted by the Warren Burger court in the 1960s and 1970s as justification to remove prayer from schools.
Even if that interpretation were correct, why doesn't the state stay out of the church? Why don't they keep public health officials from entering churches and shutting them down? The inconsistency reveals the truth: they believe the state can do whatever it wants, while the church should not influence the state. This is complete rubbish.
The founding fathers always believed that Christians needed to be counselors to the king - not just deserved to be, but needed to be. Christians should be the people whispering in the ears of leaders, counseling them on what to do and what not to do. The church has abdicated its moral position to counsel political leaders in the country, and the results are visible.
The Inescapability of Religion
Religion is inescapable for human beings and culture. When God is removed from the throne - which isn't truly possible, though people try in their minds - it creates a vacuum. Then collectively, as a state, people assume the position of god in their culture, becoming the supreme dictator from which all authority and laws flow. The result is bowing down to totalitarian government.
Practical Steps: Showing Up and Speaking Truth
What can people do on a practical level to defend religious freedom? Everyone should show up to school board meetings across the country. Attend meetings in your local district, especially when they're addressing concerning issues. Some districts are even going mobile and virtual because they're afraid to face citizens.
People often ask, "What do I do?" The answer starts with a question: Are you the same person publicly that you are privately? This is the most important action most people need to take. No more disguising yourself when you leave your home. No more putting on the appearance of a secular liberal when you're at work.
Living under the tyranny of peer pressure means you might lose your job or lose friends. But the moment you have to pretend to be somebody you're not in social situations, they've won. When that breaks, they start to lose. Their power lies in their ability to make people conform.
Romans 12:2 teaches not to conform to the ways of this world - this is a biblical mandate. Yet the number one piece of feedback received is: "I am afraid I will lose this, this, this, this, this." That fear is understandable. Fear is a tactic used by the enemy to silence truth. But succumbing to that fear means playing into the opposition's greatest weapon.
Where Religious Freedoms Are Being Stripped Away
The biggest threats to religious freedom include forced job loss for those who won't comply, mockery, ridicule, and isolation for holding different views. The testing point comes when you get a knot in your stomach because you're afraid to speak out at a friend's house about a political, social, or religious matter, or when you feel that fear at work.
This doesn't mean being brash - prudence and practical judgment are necessary. Don't rush in screaming about controversial topics without wisdom. But when asked, pressured, or prodded, don't lie. Tell the truth in everything.
The secret to success is saying the exact same things privately in production meetings as publicly on shows. There's no separation, no camouflaging, no disguising, no pole testing. This is the truth being spoken. It's not easy, but it's liberating. It's freedom that truly comes from the Lord. You never have to worry about looking over your shoulder or calculating the cost of speaking your mind.
Acknowledging the Cost of Courage
There is a cost to standing for truth. This is important to acknowledge honestly. People have different pressures, different decisions to make, bills to pay, and children to care for. Not taking action doesn't make someone a coward or a bad person.
However, brave, courageous, and moral actions rarely come without cost. People want the glory, valor, and recognition, but often don't want to go through the cost required. If you want to do something meaningful, you must be willing to sacrifice for it.
Encouraging Signs Among Young People
Many young people are starting to run for office and getting involved in local school boards. They're participating in FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) requests to obtain documents from their school boards. Parents are rising up across the country.
But what gives the most hope is knowing how true the message is. Philippians 4:8 says, "Whatever is true, whatever is good, ponder on these things," defend these things. Going back to the Greek, it means to take care of these things, to nurture them.
Jesus Christ is logos - meaning reason and truth in Greek. There are many ways to describe the word logos as discussed in the book of John, but Jesus was truth. He didn't just say true things; He was the embodiment of truth. Christians have gotten away from their commitment to always telling the truth all the time.
The problem isn't just that people tell lies frequently - it's that they're living a lie. Having to put on a costume at school or work to be someone you're not is the same as telling a lie. It's like saying black is white and white is black. When you have to go to school and deny God or pretend you believe something you don't, that's just as bad as lying outright.
The call to action is this: Courage is only moral when it's rooted in truth. When we have the truth, we must act on it. That's when things will start to change.
The Source of Courage
Where does courage come from? How do people find the strength to speak truth boldly? The answer lies in having truth on your side. There is a God in heaven who governs in the affairs of men, and He's a God of justice and truth.
This could go badly if we're doing wrong things and the nation comes under judgment. But if the cause is just, God will make that shine. He's behind us, the wind in the sails pushing truth to the finish line.
Consider the alternative: If we don't stand up with courage and instead back down as cowards, history shows exactly where the republic will go. No one wants to live in totalitarian countries where they have no freedom - except the people running them. It's great for those in power because they have all the freedom. They're for freedom too - their own freedom to do anything they want, using people as pawns and tools to advance their own kingdom with themselves as gods.
The Positive Effects of Defending Religious Freedom
If the value of religious freedom could be brought back, enshrined, celebrated, and defended across the nation, what would be the positive cultural effects?
There would be a revival. People would start putting God first, which is what's needed. A transcendent order would be recreated, along with a properly ordered hierarchy. Religious freedom is under attack in a frightening way in the country and nation. It will only change when the faithful commit to freedom.
The most important thing anyone can do in life is give their life to Jesus Christ. The second most important thing is to make sure they have the freedom to do that first thing.
Why Non-Religious People Should Care About Religious Freedom
Some non-religious people might say this isn't their issue, that religious people should deal with it themselves. This is a big mistake. The church is all that prevents totalitarianism from setting in. Non-religious people are enjoying the surpluses and fruits of the American system. The church and religious freedom are what keep the entire society ordered together.
As this disintegrates, even secular people don't want to live in secular places anymore. Secular people don't want to live in New York or Los Angeles anymore. They're moving to Texas or Arizona. Why? Because these states have honored religious liberty and freedom for longer. Why aren't they moving to Portland or Seattle?
Even secular types admit that cities and areas with more reverence for God, tradition, order, and the church are nicer places to live. They're more beautiful - meaning that which is perfected in being. There's less homelessness, less vagrancy, less anti-American sentiment. The economy is more robust. People look out for their neighbors. Crime is down. All these things fall into place, not so mysteriously, when religious freedom is preserved and protected.
Ten years ago, secular types made fun of Tennessee because it was in the Bible Belt in the South. Now it's suddenly super desirable. The reason is that Tennessee put God first. While they're losing some of that now, there's still a remnant of a society created by the Christian ethic that even secular people want to live under.
All people should care about religious freedom.
Video Transcript
Fear is a tactic used by the enemy to
silence truth.
Right? That fear is understandable. But
if you succumb to that fear, then all of
a sudden you are playing into the
greatest weapon used by the opposition.
You're not only motivating people with
great speakers and cool events for young
people, but you're also educating them
about the things that they're often not
hearing in their schools, particularly
public schools for sure, but even
private schools, even faith-based
schools are not teaching these kinds of
principles. Uh, without which we don't
have a republic like we do. One of those
principles is religious freedoms. Um,
when I was in school as a kid, I didn't
really learn much about that at all. In
fact, I wasn't religious. And so, for
me, I didn't even really care about the
subject. But to our founders, it was
absolutely essential. Why is religious
freedom the mother of all freedoms?
First of foremost, it's the freedom to
worship your own creator. Um the reason
why you exist and also the founding
fathers designed this system of
self-government believing that only with
a moral and religious people this was
possible. It's John Adams quote where he
said the constitution was written solely
for a moral and religious people. It's
wholly inadequate for the people of any
other. And so limited government is only
possible when people are able to
regulate their own decisions in conduct
particularly in religious communities or
having at least the church or the
worship of God as a centerpiece of your
life. So this idea of liberty, the way
that the founding fathers understood
liberty is not the traditional
libertarian view of liberty that we've
come to realize in America. It's the
ability to pursue virtue without
somebody getting in the way. The
necessity of virtue was fundamental to
the American founding.
55 out of 56 of the signers of the
Declaration of Independence were
Christians who regularly attended
church. At least a dozen Kirk were
pastors and maybe even more, right? And
more than that had religious degrees of
people that went to religious
institutions.
State barriers and boundaries were
actually the beginning and the end of
certain religious traditions uh that had
certain uh certain perspectives on what
which which strain of Protestantism was
the best and most effective way to
practice Christianity. For example, uh
Pennsylvania was heavily Quaker, right?
We all know that example. And so the
founding fathers were only able to be
able to articulate a doctrine of
separation were able to participate in
the separation of the British people and
then a creation of a new government
because they understood the teachings of
the Bible and they understood the moral
right to religious freedom. Religious
freedom in the United States
Constitution is unlike anything else.
It's mentioned twice in two different
ways. The first is in the establishment
clause and the second is in the free
expression clause. The establishment
clause is that congress shall make no
religion. And this was actually not that
religion has no place in government, but
it was a promise to every single strain
of Protestant uh tradition in the
colonial times that it was not going to
become an Anglican or Episcopalian or
Quaker or Presbyterian or Lutheran
country that every single denomination
would be respected. The free expression
clause is the most important though that
the government has no right to get in
the way of your religious conscience,
your ability to gather, to assemble, and
to be able to worship your creator. This
is a unique attribute and characteristic
of the American system. And as soon as
you lose religious freedom, state
control then begins to set in. You know,
you said something earlier on in in uh
in that answer where you said that the
the only reason we're able to handle
freedom in America is because people
have uh understood the value of
self-government. And really what that is
is the pursuit of virtue. But but how
does that relate to re being religious,
right? Where the founders just saying,
"Well, we just prefer that people are
religious and yeah, a lot of us were
pastors and ministers." But someone
might say, "Wait, Charlie, are you
implying that in order to be virtuous,
you've got to have a religious root in
there? Is it really that important? Or
can't we just be atheists and be good?"
Yeah, I'm sure there's good atheists. I
get this question a lot. There's a lot
of good atheists out there. They're good
because they're practicing the
Judeo-Christian ethic. They just don't
want to admit it. And so the question
is, what is good? I always ask young
people. I say, "Well, what do you mean I
can't be a good atheist?" They said,
"You could be a good atheist. I've never
said that. Where do you get this
definition of good from? What is right?
What is transcendent? What is evil?
These are really big questions. And
thankfully, we have an amazing tradition
in the Christian um in the Christian
world of what all these things mean.
It's good to try to go grow closer to
your creator. It's good to defend the
innocent. It's good to tell the truth.
It's evil to call good evil and evil
good. It's evil to turn your back on
those that can't defend themselves. It's
evil to disobey your parents. It's evil
to take another life. We take this for
granted because it's kind of been meshed
into the DNA of Western culture,
right?
And it's it's not normative to the human
experience. So, to answer your question,
freedom is not sustainable if you remove
religion. And I'll be even more
specific. Freedom is not sustainable if
you remove Christianity. Eventually, it
will implode. Eventually, you will be
ruled simply by your senses. You'll be
ruled simply by your consciousness. I'm
a big lover of reason. I think reason is
a gift from the Lord. It says in Isaiah
1, "Let us reason together." But reason
without revelation, reason without the
belief in a transcendent order will go
exactly where you articulated it, Kirk.
Yep. It will go to where John Stewart
Mill or where Darwin articulated which
is the survival of the fittest a
eugenicist type experiment and we as
Christians should reject that
this idea of uh the separation of church
and state still seems to come up even
though it's not in the constitution it's
not in the bill of rights there's a
principle there that people get entirely
backwards and upside down thinking that
that is the reason why we shouldn't talk
about God or faith in the government is
that true
no I mean it's in a single the letter
that Thomas Jefferson wrote to the
Danbury Baptist Convention. It's not in
the Constitution. It's not in the
Declaration. It's not in the Bill of
Rights. It's not in the Federalist
Papers. It's not in any of those
foundational documents uh that really
formed this republic that we have. It
was adopted by the Warren Burger court
in the 1960s and '7s as a reason to get
prayer out of schools. But let's pretend
they were right. Church uh Kirk, let's
pretend that they were right for a
second, even though they're not. Then
why don't they keep the state out of the
church? Why don't they keep the public
health officials from going into
churches and locking them down? I
thought they want separation of church
and state. They can't even be consistent
with their own lies.
Right?
The only thing they believed is that the
state can do whatever you want. The
church should not try to influence the
state. This is rubbish. The founding
fathers always believed that Christians
deserved to be counselors to the king.
Not deserved. They needed to be
counselors to the king. The people
whispering in the ear of the leaders,
counseling them, do this and don't do
that.
The church has abdicated its moral place
to be counseling the king or counseling
the political leaders in our country and
we see the result of that.
That that is so true because I think
religion uh is inescapable uh for us as
human beings and as a culture and if we
kick God off of the throne, we can't
really do that. But in our minds if we
want to play make believe and think we
can do that that creates a vacuum and
then we as a man a group of people
corporately as a state will assume the
position of the god of our culture the
supreme dictator from which all
authority flows all laws flow and then
we end up bowing down to a totalitarian
government which you're doing such a
fantastic job of uh keeping from
happening in the minds of young people
and I thank you. But talk about some of
these uh on boots on the ground everyday
things that you're doing that other
people can do too.
Yes. I mean, everyone should be showing
up to schoolboard meetings all across
the country. We're going to be showing
up to the Scottsdale Unified School
District meeting whenever it is if they
allow us to because they keep going
mobiley and virtually because they're
afraid to actually face the citizens.
I'm a taxpayer in Scottsdale and they
are doing some really sinister stuff.
Let me tell you what, Kirk. And I'm not
going to put up with it. I went to the
Chandler Unified School District, also a
pay a payer of income tax in Arizona.
So, showed up there. We have to be
active, be involved, and show up at all
these meetings. Kirk, the other thing is
this though is that people say, "What do
I do? What do I do?" I asked them, "Are
you the same person publicly that you
are privately?"
That's the most important thing that
most have to do.
No more disguising yourself when you
leave your home. No more that you got to
put on the jersey of being kind of this
like secular liberal when you're at
work. No, you are living under the
tyranny of other pressure. Yes, you
might lose your job. Yes, you might lose
your friends. But the moment that you
have to now pretend to be somebody
you're not in social situations, then
they've won. The minute that breaks,
then all of a sudden they're going to
start to lose. Their power is in their
ability to make us to conform. I believe
it's Romans 8:12 or Romans 12:8. This is
how I kind of get the number screwed up
at times. Um, do not conform to the ways
of this world. It is a biblical teaching
to not conform to the ways of this
world. Yet, so often, Kirk, the number
one piece of feedback I get on our
program here on our podcast, and you've
been on our podcast before, Kirk, I'd
love to have everyone check it out, is
that they tell us, "Charlie, I am afraid
I will lose this, this, this, this,
this." And I say that fear is a tactic
used by the enemy to silence truth.
Right?
That fear is understandable. But if you
succumb to that fear, then all of a
sudden you are playing into the greatest
weapon used by the opposition.
So who are the biggest thieves? Where
where should we uh where should we be
looking to say okay that's a that's an
area where they're looking to strip me
of my religious freedoms and my ability
to be who I am privately when I'm in
public.
Yeah. I mean the biggest is for you know
forcible jobs forcing you to lose your
job. Uh mockery ridicule isolation um if
you have a different view. And the
biggest thing is this is that if you get
a knot in your stomach because you're
afraid to speak out at a friend's house
about a political matter or a social
matter or a religious matter, that's the
testing point. If you get a knot in your
stomach at work about that and look, I'm
not going to counsel you to be brash.
You have to have prudence. You have to
have practical judgment when you do
these things. you you shouldn't just
rush into it and just start screaming at
your you know work that you know
vaccines are like I don't want to take
the vaccine or whatever right that's not
what I'm saying because some people are
doing that and that's not wise what I am
saying though is when asked or pressured
or prodded don't lie tell the truth
tell the truth in every single thing I
got to tell you this people say Charlie
how are you able to do what you do it's
so simple I say the exact same things
privately to our production meeting of
our podcast that I say on the show.
That's the that's the secret to our
success. There's there is no separation
here. And my team is laughing because
they're like, "Yep, that's right. The we
are there's no camouflaging. There's no
disguising. There's no like pole
testing. What is true? This is what I'm
going to say." I encourage other people
to do that. And by the way, it's not
easy, but it's so liberating, Kirk. It's
so beautiful. You never have to worry
about being restrained to another,
looking around your shoulder, the cost
of of speaking your mind. It it's it's
freedom that truly comes from the Lord.
Well, I I agree. And as an actor, I have
made my living being somebody publicly
that I am not privately, right? That's
what that's what we do for a living. And
so, we get really good at it. And so,
for me, I've got to unlearn what has
become so natural. Um, and we most of us
know that this is going to come at some
kind of a cost. Like you said, losing
your job um is is a big deal for someone
who doesn't have a big social media
platform to be able to get uh other ways
of getting their message out, other ways
of uh you know monetizing all the good
work that they're doing. And so
understandably it's like well what do I
do? But if we all do it and if we join
together voluntary unions and we begin
to associate with one another, we can
then begin rebuilding the systems and
the institutions which is what we should
have been doing from the beginning
rather than relying on platforms built
by people who want to destroy our
message. Right? That would be like Jesus
trying to depend on the Pharisees to to
disseminate his gospel to Israel. You'd
be like, well, of course they're not
going to want to do that. And so he
created his own disciple disciplehip
program and send sending them out,
right? And that's what we need to begin
doing and I see people are doing it
because we have no choice now. I love
it.
Yeah, that that's right, Kirk. And I
just want to acknowledge something.
There is a cost to this. I'm not going
to lie to our audience. I'm not going to
lie to your audience. And I'm also not
going to say if you do nothing, you're a
coward. I am not saying that. A lot of
people have different pressures and they
have different uh decisions to make,
bills to pay, children to take care of.
That's right. So, I'm not just c I'm not
doing this. I'm not saying you're a bad
person. What I am saying though is
people say, "What do I do?"
Well, that's an action step.
But brave and courageous and moral
things, Kirk, rarely don't come without
a cost.
Yeah.
Right.
I mean, think about that.
People want the glory. They want the
valor. They want the recognition,
but they don't want to have to go
through the cost to do that.
That's right.
And what I'm just trying to be honest
with people is if you want to do
something meaningful, then you have to
be willing to sacrifice for that
something.
What are some things that encourage you
that you see other young people doing in
America right now? Are there some
examples that you can share? Like, okay,
let me tell you what some of these guys
did. Yeah, I mean I've seen a lot of
young people start to run for office.
I'm seeing a lot of young people get
involved in their local school boards,
participate in FOYA, Freedom of
Information Act requests to actually get
documents from their school boards. I'm
seeing a ton of movement, Kirk, that is
really giving me hope and promise. I'm
seeing parents start to rise up. But do
you know what gives me the most amount
of hope is how true I know our message
is.
That's what gives me hope. Yeah.
And as long as we have people keep on
repeating things that are true, it says
in the scriptures, Philippians 4:8,
whatever is true, whatever is good,
ponder on these things, defend these
things. If you go back to the Greek,
it's it is to take care of these things,
to nurture them, then that's what we got
to do. And look, Jesus Christ, logos,
which means reason, truth. There's a lot
of different ways to uh describe the
word logos in the New Testament. uh
that's talked that's spoke about in the
book of John. But Jesus was truth. He
didn't just say true things. He was the
embodiment of truth. And if I'm if I'm
going to be honest, we as Christians
have gotten away from our commitment to
always telling the truth all the time.
And and it's not to say that people tell
lies a lot. Is that they're living a
lie. It's that they have to go pretend
to go put on some costume and jersey at
school or work and to be someone that
they are. That's the same thing as
telling a lie, by the way, Kirk. That's
the same thing as saying that black is
actually white and white is actually
black when you have to go to school and
you're like, "Well, what what do you
think about this, Johnny?" Oh, I think
that uh that there is no God. And I
don't I don't know. Next question.
That's just as bad, Kirk. Is living out
something you don't believe. So, my call
to action is that courage is only moral
when it's rooted in truth. If we have
the truth, we have to act on it. And
that's when things are going to start to
change.
I I love that. I love that. I When I
think of how courageous you are, when I
think of how courageous uh pastors are
like Rob McCoy and Jack Hibbs and
others, and I think of so many people
who spoke at at the SAS meetings. Um we
we we look at that and I go, man, how do
you get that kind of courage? And I
think what you said is exactly right is
that we have the truth on our side for
crying out loud. There is a God in
heaven who governs in the affairs of men
and and he's a God of justice and truth.
Now, that could go bad for us if if
we're actually uh doing bad things and
and and and our nation comes under a
time of judgment. But if our cause is
just, he's going to make that shine.
He's behind us. He's the wind in the
sails for truth to push us uh to the
finish line. And that makes me excited.
And then I also think about the flip
side and I I I think man if we don't
stand up with courage and we just back
down as cowards. History tells me where
our republic will go. And I can't
believe everybody wants to anybody wants
to go there. And I think the people
don't. No one wants to live in
totalitarian countries where they have
no freedom except the people that are
running the joint. It's great for them
because they have all the freedom.
Yes.
And and they're for freedom too
actually. just their own freedom to do
anything that they want and use the
people as pawns and tools to advance
their their their own kingdom with them
as gods. So, uh so it's both. Uh we have
we have a lot at stake. Uh let let me
ask you this one final question. Um,
if we could
bring back the value for religious
freedom and we could reenshrine it and
celebrate it and defend it all across
this nation, what would be the positive
effects that we would begin to see
culturally?
Yeah, we would see a revival and we
would see people start to put God first,
which is what we need to do. We need to
try to recreate a transcendent order. uh
we need to try to recreate this idea of
a properly ordered hierarchy. And that's
that that's the true thing that we need
to have right now. And look, religious
freedom is under attack in in a very
scary way in our country and in our
nation. It's only going to change when
the faithful start to commit to freedom.
The most important thing you could do in
your life is give your life to Jesus
Christ. The second most important thing
is make sure you could do the first
thing. Give your life to Jesus Christ.
Second thing, make sure that you have
the freedom to do that.
Charlie, why should non-religious people
care about religious freedom? If they
say not my issue, you deal with it. Why
are they making a big mistake?
They're wrong because the church is all
that is preventing totalitarianism from
setting in.
Exactly.
You're enjoying the surpluses of the
fruit of the American system. The church
and religious freedom is what keeps this
entire society ordered together. You're
starting to see this disintegrate. Even
secular people that I know, they don't
want to live in secular places anymore.
Do you notice that?
Right.
Secular people I know don't want to live
in New York anymore. They don't want to
live in LA anymore. They're like, "Oh
yeah, I'm going to go to Texas." I
wonder why you're going to Texas. Is it
that because they've actually honored
religious liberty and freedom for
longer? Oh, I want to go to Arizona. I
wonder why. Why? Why aren't you moving
to Portland? like why aren't you moving
to Seattle?
Right?
So even the secular types, they
themselves admit that that cities and
areas that have had more of a reverence
for God and for tradition and for order
and for the church are actually nicer
places to live. Kirk,
it's actually more beautiful. And what I
mean by beautiful is that which is
perfected in being. Less homelessness,
less vagrancy, anti-American nonsense.
The economy is more robust. You're
looking up for the fellow neighbor.
crime is down. All these things just
kind of fall into place kind of
mysteriously, not so mysteriously
actually for the secular folks out there
when you actually have religious freedom
that is preserved and protected. And you
could see this. I I joke around with
some of my secular friends like, "Oh,
I'm moving out of Boston. I'm moving out
of New York. It's the worst place ever."
Like, where are you going? Tennessee.
Like, oh, really? I wonder. 10 years
ago, the secular types were making fun
of Tennessee because it was the Bible
belt in the southern part of America.
Now all of a sudden, it's super
desirable. I wonder why. I wonder why
they have their act together. It's
because they've put God first. Now
they're losing that in some sense, but
still there's this remnant of a society
that was created by the Christian ethic
that even secular types want to live
under. All people should care about
religious freedom.